What 2,000 People Look Like 154


Various unionist nutters have tried to claim that the outrageous BBC/MOD propaganda lie of 35,000 people at Armed Forces Day in Stirling is true. This picture was taken at 1.30pm when the crowd was largest.

There is a lot to give scale in this photo. Look at the vehicles. Look at the marquees.

Look at the marquee closest to the top on the left. There is a van parked right in front of it. From that van, we can measure that it is a sixty foot by forty foot marquee.

Using simple measurement techniques, it is easy to see that the entire crowd could fit into three – or at most four – of those marquees. Perspective is on the side of crowd overestimate as the marquee is further away from the camera than any of the crowd.

If you observe rationally, and look at the clues as to scale, it is not difficult to work it out. That the MOD can claim 35,000 people is a lie by a factor of about twenty times. That the BBC repeats this state propaganda is worse than anything I have seen recently on Russia Today or Chinese state CCTV.

And here is the crowd by the climax – the Red Arrows fly past at 5pm. I have seen more people at a garden fete.


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154 thoughts on “What 2,000 People Look Like

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  • Resident Dissident

    Just saw the crowd for Dolly Parton at Glastonbury – if she ever wants to become Prime Minister of the UK or Scotland she would walk it!

  • A Node

    craig 29 Jun, 2014 – 6:05 pm

    “A Node. Indeed. Re that Robben penalty shout, I think his track record as a known diver cost Holland there.”

    Then he hurdles a crazy tackle in the penalty box which would’ve been a sure-fire penalty if he went down.
    Then he gets hacked down twice, either of which should’ve been a penalty, but the ref ignores both.
    Then he takes another dive and is awarded the penalty which wins the game.

    That’s football.

  • A Node

    “Just saw the crowd for Dolly Parton at Glastonbury – if she ever wants to become Prime Minister of the UK or Scotland she would walk it!”

    Don’t exaggerate. It was about 1500 – 1700.

  • Fedup

    Law of unintended consequences, helping the Syrian “opposition” to fight the “despot” Assad has meant that the “opposition” can go medieval on its opponents;

    (Reuters) – Eight rebel fighters have been crucified in Syria by the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) because they were considered too moderate, a monitoring group said on Sunday.

    This is the same bunch of “Sunni revolutionaries” who are too busy taking over the cities in Iraq, and apparently at least enjoy the backing of the bbc!

    The group (ISIS/L) has alienated many civilians and opposition activists by imposing harsh rulings against dissent, even beheading its opponents, in areas it controls.

    ISIL have highlighted how the conflict in Iraq is intertwined with the civil war in Syria,

    However the news that Jordan is no the target list too is not taking much of a traction.

  • Rob Royston

    Looking at this field on Google Earth you can clearly see the mark in the ground caused by tractors crossing the field from the gate on Dumbarton Road. This allows you to use the ruler to measure the area available. There is 1000ft from the far end of the crowd to the fence at Raploch Road and about 200ft in the section across at the nearest end. 1200ft would allow 600 people to crush up in line abreast, so the spectator area would be very packed with 3000 people. Clearly it is not packed out in the picture.
    There are about 250 people on the grass below the castle, 100 on the road and another 100 in the entrance.
    If you round that up to 1000 by including all the people that are milling around in areas away from the spectator areas you could be generous and say there were 2,500 people there, but I think 2000 is probably closer.

  • Jives

    Well,when you subtract the spooks,media whores,Special Branch watchers and political bodyguards i reckon there were actually 9 people there…:.)

  • Mary


    80,000 Shell Shocked Soldiers

    ‘Finally Some English Officers Gained the Courage to Stand Up Against the Politicians.

    Siegfried Sasson and many others had had enough! This is his Open Letter of 31 July 1917 to the Government, published in The Times. Other writers like Kipling (after the loss of his son John) and Tolkien himself a Lieutenant (after the loss of his two best friends) along with Purvis; all created the current of opinion. This Was Very Powerful for the time and could have resulted in Sasson’s own execution. Interestingly when charged it was successfully argued that the author was suffering from: Shell Shock!

    A Soldier’s Declaration

    I am making this statement as an act of willful defiance of military authority, because I believe the war is being deliberately prolonged by those who have the power to end it.

    I am a soldier, convinced that I am acting on behalf of soldiers. I believe that this war, upon which I entered as a war of defense and liberation has now become a war of aggression and conquest. I believe that the purposes for which I and my fellow soldiers entered upon this war should have been so clearly stated as to have made it impossible to change them, and that, had this been done, the objects which actuated us would now be attainable by negotiation.

    I have seen and endured the suffering of the troops, and I can no longer be a party to prolong these sufferings for ends which I believe to be evil and unjust. I am not protesting against the conduct of the war, but against the political errors and insincerity’s for which the fighting men are being sacrificed.

    On behalf of those who are suffering now I make this protest against the deception which is being practiced on them; also I believe that I may help to destroy the callous complacence with which the majority of those at home regard the continuance of agonies which they do not share, and which they have not sufficient imagination to realize.

    S. Sassoon


    Mary; You might expect fiscal conservatives to be consistent, but you’d be more productive by whistling Dixie.

    The long term costs of war. It’s what never appears in their budget requests.


    “In 2008, the Rand Corporation released a report specifically about the military personnel deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. It put the economic impact of PTSD, including medical care, productivity and suicides at $4 billion to $6 billion over two years. These numbers are growing every day. And without early intervention, diagnosis and treatment, the cost to our economy will skyrocket.”

  • Mary

    Grace and Peacewisher above

    Robert Stuart is still on the case. Here on Medialens.

    Saving Syria’s Children ‘field’ hospital revealed
    Posted by Robert on June 30, 2014, 1:10 am

    Thanks to a new fundraising campaign by Hand in Hand for Syria it is now known that the “basic hospital funded by handouts” which featured in BBC Panorama ‘Saving Syria’s Children’ as the setting for the aftermath of the extremely dubious “playground napalm bomb attack” has until recently been funded by “a European donor which supports global emergency response.. ..via an INGO partner” to the tune of “between $60,000 and $70,000 a month”.

    It is described as “One of the country’s most sophisticated remaining hospitals”

    The campaign has garnered coverage in the Times and Guardian

    I have commented under the Guardian piece (see below) – last time I posted a link to my blog on ‘Saving Syria’s Children’ on CiF I received an email telling me it was “potentially defamatory”, so not sure how long this one will stay up.


    Hand in Hand for Syria co-founder and chairman Faddy Salhoul’s Facebook banner reads “We will bring Assad to justice, no matter what lives it takes, no matter how much catastrophe it makes”. This hardly sits with Hand in Hand for Syria’s declared purpose (on the Charity Commission website) of “the advancement of health or saving lives”.

    In a 29 August 2013 BBC News item Ian Pannell described Atareb (as it is now known to be) as “a basic hospital funded by handouts”. The inaccuracy of this description is now revealed by the list of facilities and the funding arrangements discussed above.

    That this funding was in place prior to the “incendiary bomb attack” of last August 26 which featured in Panorama ‘Saving Syria’s Children’ is clear from Hand in Hand’s website, which in a June 2014 article states “after one year our agreement with our INGO partner has come to an end”.

    Dr Rola Hallam, who ‘starred’ in ‘Saving Syria’s Children’, writes “The hospital costs between $60,000 and $70,000 a month to operate, depending on our field costs”.

    Wider issues around Panorama ‘Saving Syria’s Children’ are currently under consideration by the BBC Trust.’

    For the live links within see:

    The Guardian piece under which Robert’s comment remains.

    Syria charity blames red tape for closure of Aleppo hospital
    Staff at much-needed hospital given a month’s notice because charity needs established funding partner to keep facility open



    Craig also dealt with the lies.

    The Theatre of War
    Oct 8th 2013
    My last post on the BBC footage of Syrian casualties – and the different versions of what the doctor said – has brought me a deluge of emails, not least from the Guardian who have been in touch with the BBC and, if the Guardian can get over its phobia at ever mentioning me at […]

    Fake BBC Video
    Oct 7th 2013
    Irrefutable evidence of a stunning bit of fakery by the BBC: In this version the medic being interviewed says about the 2 minute mark: “..It’s just absolute chaos and carnage here, erm we’ve had a massive influx of what looks like serious burns, er seems like it must be some sort of chemical weapon, I’m not […]

  • Mary

    There was an item on the news yesterday about the re-enactment of WW1 trenches at the Chalke Valley History Festival, nr Salisbury.


    Shame we’ve missed Gove, Freedland, the Snows, Dr Acula, etc !


    Note the first item in the blog for yesterday. A poll on Scottish independence.

  • Mary

    The link to the speakers is

    and to the programme
    http://www.cvhf.org.uk/festival-programme/ (click on later on top RH side for afternoons and evenings)

    Gove did Poems of the Great War, there was a holocaust survivor and one of the Call the Midwife actresses and these participated in the Scottish independence debate – Campbell, Gove, Glass, Maddox and Jenkins.

    A very mixed bag indeed.

  • Stu1314

    for perspective check out the telegraphs pic of Glastonbury about 100000 people you could fit afd into that field 10 times over 35000 my @rse

  • Phil

    “This is worth reading”

    My nan told me on her deathbed that her father had been shot as a deserter. Her shame was such that she was never known to have otherwise spoken about this. Her father’s captain had given the family money and no one loved the queen more than my nan. But the illusions she rationalised into being were of little comfort in the end.

    I found that Guardian article to be the normal establishment guff, sentimentalising the political reality out of existence: The horror! Shellshock! Can’t judge then by our standards now! Blah blah blah…

    Here is a rare first hand account of WW1 rebellion that you won’t get in the Guardian or on the BBC: The Calais Mutiny.

  • Ba'al Zevul (Chimp Assassin)

    The BBC only carried the anti-austerity protest last week on satellite TV. Radio 4 listeners wrote intelligently to Feedback to ask why. Was there political input? BBC management was not helpful – Roger Bolton’s less than satisfied.


    Private Eye reports that this month 700 staff jobs will be cut from the BBC, 200 of them from radio, while senior management continues to multiply.

  • nevermind, viva beautiful football

    O/T but not too o/t

    So good to see Costa Rica join the quarterfinal for the first time, I would have loved to be there last night, they must be still partying now.

    David is delighted at Junckers 26-2 win and wants to work with him, pretty please. But thewre is change on the horizon as Germans, as well as her own deputy, realise that austerity has given a helping hand to the rightwing populists all over the EU.
    Sigmar Gabriel might want to see Cameron soon and talk reform, but will Cameron want to talk to him, he is a socialist who has been sitting on the sidelines for some time.


    Sigmar Gabriel comes from Lower Saxony and has no crux with those who are critical of immigration calling the speech of his own colleague ‘verbal violence. Gabriel called the actions of Israel as that of an apartheid regime’


  • Peacewisher


    I’ve listened to the BBC’s response from their angry listeners, and although the presenter seems genuinely concerned, the corporate response (other news stories that day) is “far from convincing”. I hope they get more complaints based on that response.

  • Dan Huil

    The BBC continues to deliberately exaggerate the turnout at afd. Are they including the actual marchers in its total? Even then…

  • Penfold

    Would have loved to have gone to Bannockburn live but cost was, unfortunately, too high for family of 4. Children should have been at a substantial discount, but hey, I digress.

    We WOULD have gone to Armed forces day but refused due to the blatant political gerrymandering which brought it here. I did not want my families day out to be used as a point scoring exercise by Westminster and No camp. How many others thought the same?

    Such a shame the powers which be spoiled a good cause.

  • Phil

    The debate is lost, the outcome irrelevant, if this indepedance vote malarky is reduced to opposing nationalistic celebrations. Yet again people are being suckered into the wrong arguments by those who would lead us.

    F**k all your war celebrations.

  • Ba'al Zevul (Chimp Assassin)

    I’ve listened to the BBC’s response from their angry listeners, and although the presenter seems genuinely concerned, the corporate response (other news stories that day) is “far from convincing”. I hope they get more complaints based on that response.

    My opinion exactly. Particularly as Dolly Parton’s performance at Glastonbury, and Costa Rica playing football have been heading up the R4 News for some hours. Other news stories…yeah.

  • Mary

    Our licence fees –

    BBC sends 300 staff to cover Glastonbury Festival – that’s 28 more than its Brazil World Cup crew
    This compares to 272 who are heading to Brazil for the World Cup
    BBC said each member of staff had a ‘clear and accountable role’
    It is broadcasting 250 hours of Glastonbury coverage

    I for one did not watch it. Who wants to listen to a load of old has beens?

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