The Independent have Jack Straw well and truly cornered:
Writing in the Mail on Sunday, Craig Murray, who was sacked as UK ambassador to Uzbekistan in 2004 after alleging that Britain used intelligence obtained by the CIA under torture, said he attended a meeting at the Foreign Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and claimed this policy came directly from Mr Straw.
The former Foreign Secretary said: “At all times I was scrupulous in seeking to carry out my duties in accordance with the law. I hope to be able to say more about this at an appropriate stage in the future.”
I hope so too, and I hope that the appropriate time is either at the Old Bailey or The Hague.
Straw has climbed down a bit from his days of power and glory, when he told the House of Commons, immediately after sacking me, that there was no such thing as the CIA extraordinary rendition programme and its existence was “Mr Murray’s opinion.” He no longer claims it did not exist and he no longer claims I am a fantasist. He now merely claims he was not breaking the law.
His claim of respect for the law is a bit dubious in the light of Sir Michael Wood’s evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry. Wood said that as Foreign Office Legal Adviser, he and his elite team of in-house FCO international lawyers unanimously advised Straw the invasion of Iraq would be an illegal war of aggression. Straw’s response? He wrote to the Attorney General requesting that Sir Michael be dismissed and replaced. And forced Goldsmith to troop out to Washington and get alternative advice from Bush’s nutjob Republican neo-con lawyers.
Jack Straw did not have any desire to act legally. He had a desire to be able to mount a legal defence of his illegal actions. That is a different thing.
Should any of us live to see the publication of the Chilcot Report, this will doubtless be clear, though probably as a footnote to page 862 of Annex VII. That is how the Westminster establishment works.
The SNP has weighed in on the side of the angels:
Revelations by the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan of the UK’s knowledge and acceptance of torture must see those involved answer questions on what happened.
In an article in the Mail on Sunday, Mr Murray reveals that he attended a meeting at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office where he was told that “it was not illegal for us to use intelligence from torture as long as we did not carry out the torture ourselves” and revealed that this policy came directly from Jack Straw.
Mr Murray also reveals that “there was a deliberate policy of not writing down anything… because there should not be evidence of the policy.”
Craig Murray also states that “for the past year the British Ambassador in Washington and his staff have regularly been lobbying the US authorities not to reveal facts about the UK’s involvement in the CIA torture programme” and claims that is one of the reasons the full Senate report has not been published.
The SNP has called for a full judicial inquiry to be set up as a matter of urgency to get to get to the truth of who knew what and when.
Commenting, SNP Westminster Leader Angus Robertson MP said:
“Mr Murray’s revelation of the attitude taken by then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw only adds to the urgency with which we need a full judicial inquiry.
“Craig Murray’s article lifts the lid on the UK’s role in the human rights abuses that the US Senate has reported on and there can be no more attempts to avoid answering the tough questions that have been posed.
“Clearly answers are needed just as much from the politicians who led us at the time as from those directly involved in what was going on. The need for an independent judicial inquiry is now clear for all to see.
“It is also long past time that the findings of the Chilcot inquiry were published and there can be no more delays to that report being made public.
“There needs to be a full judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of the UK’s involvement in rendition flights that passed through UK territory and the UK’s wider knowledge of the abuses that the Senate has revealed.”
Craig Murray’s revelations can be viewed on page 25 of today’s Mail on Sunday
But with Malcolm Rifkind being promoted everywhere by the BBC to push his cover-up, it remains an uphill struggle.
The man at the centre of the CIA’s brutal interrogation regime has revealed British agents were present at torture sites around the world where detainees were questioned.
The admission by former US Air Force psychologist Dr James Mitchell comes after an explosive report by the Senate Intelligence Committee appeared to go to great lengths not to implicate MI5 or the Secret Intelligence Service in the torture programme.
Mitchell, 62, who went by the alias Grayson Swigert, not only personally carried out countless torture sessions including waterboarding, on detainees, but was also responsible for devising the methods used.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2873050/I-saw-British-agents-secret-torture-sites-says-boss-CIA-s-brutal-interrogation-programme.html
………………………….
The UK complicit in torture surely not? it must be a mistake, I mean Jack Straw and Tony Blair wouldn’t lie to us would they?
Errm, well the existing regulations will be scrapped in favour of the new ones which are applicable to all EU fishing fleets. The rules have been changed as the result of a lot of campaigning to stop discards. That is throwing dead fish back into the sea. It’s taken the EU a couple of decades to realise that his is not a valid conservation strategy.
………………………..
However, speaking to the BBC, Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, claimed that the ban “was rushed in without consultation” and provided “no legal certainty”.
“We will do our best, of course, to reduce discarding as quickly as possible and as far as possible,” he said.
“But we are angry that a revolution in fishing management is being introduced in this ramshackle way.”
The Scottish MEP Ian Duncan, who sits on the European Committee on Fisheries, told the BBC that existing legislation would be amended to accommodate the discard ban.
However, he said he had severe reservations about the way the process had been carried out.
He is still concerned that the current ambition to amend all legislation in one go will lead to confusion, and undermine the ban.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-30508367
“You’re asking for such a big culture shift in the industry – you really need to make sure that the industry understands what it’s meant to be doing”, he said.
“We are continually telling fishermen they must fish within the law – but in this case we can’t even make the law.”
Republicofscotland
“Tony Abbots beginning to turn the screw, and the Aussie public, can’t see what’s coming, in the long run.”
_____________
Well never mind, as long as you’ve spotted it, RoS, that’s what really important, isn’t it. LOL
Macky
biscuits?
“You, Cochrane, what city sent for him?
— Tarentum, sir.
— Very good. Well?
— There was a battle, sir.
— Very good. Where?
The boy’s blank face asked the blank window.
Fabled by the daughters of memory. And yet it was in some way if not as memory fabled it. A phrase, then, of impatience, thud of Blake’s wings of excess. I hear the ruin of all space, shattered glass and toppling masonry, and time one livid final flame. What’s left us then?
— I forget the place, sir. 279 B. C.
— Asculum, Stephen said, glancing at the name and date in the gorescarred book.
— Yes, sir. And he said: Another victory like that and we are done for.
That phrase the world had remembered. A dull ease of the mind.
From a hill above a corpsestrewn plain a general speaking to his officers, leaned upon his spear. Any general to any officers. They lend ear.
— You, Armstrong, Stephen said. What was the end of Pyrrhus?
— End of Pyrrhus, sir?
— I know, sir. Ask me, sir, Comyn said.
— Wait. You, Armstrong. Do you know anything about Pyrrhus?
A bag of figrolls lay snugly in Armstrong’s satchel. He curled them between his palms at whiles and swallowed them softly. Crumbs adhered to the tissue of his lips. A sweetened boy’s breath. Welloff people, proud that their eldest son was in the navy. Vico road, Dalkey.”
http://www.trentu.ca/faculty/jjoyce/ulys2.htm
Ulysses
“Saker has nothing on this revelation about MH17. It may be disinfo. But hasn’t there been a lot of anecdotal evidence it’s true?”
All sorts of stories going about.
This one, however is dated 29th June, before MH17 was shot down and says the missiles were in rebel hands.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e57_1404051041&comments=1
RepublicOfIgnorance
Kempe says, correctly,
” the existing regulations will be scrapped in favour of the new ones which are applicable to all EU fishing fleets.”
Therefore you attempted to mislead when you implied (at 15h32)that there were two sets of rules, the one in contradiction with the other:
“Scotland’s fishing fleet face a major DILEMMA, after EU negotiations created an ANOMALY. Starting from 2015 fishing boats must land everything they catch,irrespective of breed or size.
BUT existing EU regulation state that certain breeds and sizes of fish, must not be kept, failing to return small or rare breeds of fish will see Scottish fishermen fined.” (EMPHASIS ADDED).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Moral : only post when you know what you’re talking about and avoid trying to mislead.
Mary
“In the beginning of posts from the above troll in November 2011, the name was Habbakuk. LOL”
___________________
Are you the Original Troll who posted, variously, as “April Showers” and “Flaming June”?
Mary
“The racist Geert Wilders is charged with inciting hatred.
Geert Wilders Prosecuted For ‘Inciting Hatred’
Geert Wilders faces trial after the anti-Islam MP pledged to ensure there were “fewer Moroccans” in the Netherlands.
http://news.sky.com/story/1393994/geert-wilders-prosecuted-for-inciting-hatred”
_________________
Presumably the charge is racial hatred?
If you believed in the rule of law (I bemieve you once added “For truth AND JUSTICE” to your moniker?) you would a
await the outcome of his trial and only call him a “racist” if he is convicted.
Wouldn’t you?
Since 3 pm (UK time), the commenter now known as “Republicofscotland” has posted on
– me (twice)
– the Chilcot enquiry and Iraq
– fisheries (twice)
– US/Cuba
– the Royal Family and shooting
– Australia and terrorism
– Israel (twice)
– the wrongly named “bedroom tax”
– CIA interrogations.
No wonder he can’t find the time to follow Mr Scourgoe’s admirable lead and tell us what he thinks about Tibet/China. 🙂
Mr Scorgie
“You also never criticise western backed coups that bring down, or attempt to bring down, legitimate democratic governments.
Syria 1949
Iran 1953
Guatemala 1954
Iraq 1960
Congo 1960”
_____________________
Is there any particular reason why you’ve taken “examples” from sixty to seventy years ago?
And are you sure that the govts of Syria (1949)and Iraq (1960) were democratic and that of Congo (1960) legitimate?
Sources and references, please (authoritative ones, not something you’ve picked up from globalresearch.org or volatirenet, please)
Giyane; “Macky, biscuits?”
Yes, I noticed that; betrays a certain type, from a certain type of upbringing, obviously a waste of money in this case.
The Grammar School down the road, was rumoured to give out sherbet lemons, we were so jealous !
But fig rolls ! I would have swotted endlessly for them !
More torture fallout,
“In response to US personnel’s systematic infliction of psychological and physical torture against detainees, PHR seeks to restore the US commitment against torture, to ensure humane treatment of detainees, and to protect US health personnel from complicity in mistreatment and harm.”
More at: http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/issues/torture/us-torture/#sthash.uFhuzRvg.dpuf
…
RoS. 3 01pm
“I suppose if the devils talking about me he’s leaving someone else alone.”,/em>
Not only that. It get’s better. It shows you have strayed outside the reserve of the mandated narrative and the most useless fecking trolls on the internet will swarm on you like toothless midges.
Just watch how few tricks they have. The aim is to distract you into wasting your precious time engaging with their agenda of diversion fight-starting.
It’s like finding the monkeys by shaking the trees. We deserve better.
🙂
Oops! Italics cock-up! Sorry.
Since 3 pm (UK time), the commenter now known as “Republicofscotland” has posted on
– me (twice)
– the Chilcot enquiry and Iraq
– fisheries (twice)
– US/Cuba
– the Royal Family and shooting
– Australia and terrorism
– Israel (twice)
– the wrongly named “bedroom tax”
– CIA interrogations.
“No wonder he can’t find the time to follow Mr Scourgoe’s admirable lead and tell us what he thinks about Tibet/China.”
—————————————
Habb
I know it must be gut wrenching for you, knowing that you’ll never reach the lofty heights of actually posting, a comment of your own, with a link attached.
But fear not I’ll make up for your utter failure.
Of course I know you need to follow protocol, and links are not included in the agenda, dished out by Thames House. Pity that, who knows without the restrictions, you may have even posted something remotely interesting.
Troll – Yes I did use other names when I was trying to avoid your revolting persecution of me on this blog. Dreolin helpfully told you it was me at the time.
Every one knows that the Dutchman Wilders is a racist. Even Home Secretary Jackboots Smith banned him coming here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders
Is your memory going?
Will you stop your endless nitpicking and go and do something useful for other people. There are many in straightened circumstances who could do with a helping hand.
You certainly qualify as a troll – divert, distract, destroy. You are an intimidating presence here to any prospective new contributors.
RoS
Yes, yes, very interesting, but what are your thoughts on Tibet/China?
There are 110 uses of the word ‘Habbabkuk’ on this thread, including by username and in reply. Completely dominating the proceedings. That is the intention.
RoS
“Yes, yes, very interesting, but what are your thoughts on Tibet/China?”
——————————–
Habb
Thoughts on Tibet/China…Hmm!
Here goes, both have 5 letters in their names, and both have 2 vowels in their names, and both have the letter (i) in their names.
I hope this will suffice?
Mary
“Troll – Yes I did use other names when I was trying to avoid your revolting persecution of me on this blog. Dreolin helpfully told you it was me at the time.”
_______________
No she didn’t, I believe that I announced it to everyone else. It was simple – just a matter of comparing themes and styles and, hey presto!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Every one knows that the Dutchman Wilders is a racist. Even Home Secretary Jackboots Smith banned him coming here.”
_________________
I think you should be very careful with that dangerous expression “Everyone knows….”.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/waterboarding-torture-japan-world-war-ii
Reading back, good posts Republic of Scotland and cheers Macky for that stout defence to the troll’s apprentice.
Republicof Scotland
“Habb
Thoughts on Tibet/China…Hmm!
Here goes, both have 5 letters in their names, and both have 2 vowels in their names, and both have the letter (i) in their names.
I hope this will suffice?”
________________
That’s very good for a beginning, RoS. Let’s now build on that.
Mr Scorgie said :
“I have no objection to criticising China – it has the highest execution rate in the world for example and I certainly support independence for Tibet and Taiwan.”
Do you agree with Mr Scorgie? Specifically, do you support independence for Tibet and would you criticise China’s high execution rate?
Mary
“There are 110 uses of the word ‘Habbabkuk’ on this thread, including by username and in reply. Completely dominating the proceedings. That is the intention.”
_______________
Surely the answer is simple?
You and the other Original Trolls should come out with something interesting and likely to give rise to an interesting discussion rather than just insulting and Reluctant Observer me and doing endless cut-and-pastes (otherwise grandiosely called “links”).
“Reading back, good posts Republic of Scotland and cheers Macky for that stout defence to the troll’s apprentice.”
——————————–
Thanks Mary, you post some very relevant comments yourself, don’t let the b*stards get you down, you know who I mean.
“That’s very good for a beginning, RoS. Let’s now build on that.”
Habb
Lets not.
However what would be very good is, if you posted a link, and it would be even more titillating if you posted an interesting link, something that shows other commenters that you’re not as dull as dishwater, how about it?
RepublicOfDenial
““That’s very good for a beginning, RoS. Let’s now build on that.”
Habb
Lets {SIC}not.”
____________________
Should I conclude from your curious unwillingness to respond that you think China’s occupation/annexation of Tibet was/is perfectly OK?
Mr Scorgie obviously doesn’t and he isn’t afraid to say so.
@Doug Scorgie : Thank you for responding. The take-up is very low.
RepublicOfFeveredLongings
“it would be even more titillating if you posted an interesting link, something that shows other commenters that you’re not as dull as dishwater”
_________________
Well, Craig doesn’t post many links and that doesn’t make him as dull as dishwater does it.
You, on the other hand, post lots of links but you’re hardly a red-hot, stimulating chilli pepper, are you.
I’ll continue to go easy with the links, just to show you that I can formulate thoughts unaided.
You should try it some time as well. 🙂