A Horror We Made 589


We are directly responsible for the disasters in the Mediterranean. The bombing of Libya into failed state status is now coming back to haunt us. The ludicrous idea, propounded by Blair, Robert Cooper and the Henry Jackson Society, that you could improve dictatorial states by massive bombing campaigns that targeted their basic infrastructure, is now a total bust. Sadly so are Iraq and Libya, to the permanent detriment of many millions of people. We caused both the Islamic State and the Mediterranean boat disasters, and we caused them with bombs.

But the lack of any effective policing is only part of the problem. What makes people so desperate that they are prepared to give all of the small amount they own, to ruthless gangs, in exchange for a dreadful sea crossing with a one in ten chance of drowning? Most of the refugees are sub-Saharan African. We only see the European end of the saga, not the terrible conditions on the cross Saharan journeys that they start with.

There will be no security anywhere if the world does not address the terrible scourge of African poverty and under-development. That is a huge subject on which I have written extensively and worked much of my life, and I do not wish to open it here. But what it does show is the utter stupidity – inhumanity yes, but also stupidity – of UKIP in thinking that cutting development aid will increase the economic security of the UK.


589 thoughts on “A Horror We Made

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  • fedup

    John, You said;

    I tried to install Linux and some protective software but it fell over and I had nobody to ask.

    all you needed to do; ask!

    The most enduring facet of humanity that still keeps going despite every effort to destroy it, is; “humanity” and it enatils cooperation and helping the next pilgrim along.

  • Villager

    Dross:

    “People have been killed in drone strikes, hundreds, if not thousands of children amongst them, and now a US and Italian hostage, yet all Villager can think about is point-scoring with his woeful attempt at humour. Perhaps a little concern might be in order. But, of course, if you have no conscience you’re unlikely to feel any emotion, especially shame, as you ought now.”

    Oh what a saintly observation, except so obviously disingenuous as your own original comment at 12.21 announcing this ‘news’ contained no statement of commiseration? Please explain.

    Btw, I have followed the Warner Weinstein (yes, Mary sounds a Jewish name) story since his abduction from his ‘secured’ home in Lahore I think. At any rate in Pakistan where he was doing good work for the USAID. One feels very poor for him indeed. Very sad and I commiserate with his family as that of the Italian gentleman hostage who died in the same drone strike in Waziristan. Btw does anybody else here feel that Pakistan is also to blame that despite it coming up to the 14th anniversary of the Afghan invasion that they have not been able to get their house in order in the Wild West of Waziristan/Pakistan? When will the World wisen up to the failed state of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

    http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2015/04/white-house-says-hostages-including-american-killed-in-counterterrorism-operation.php

  • Villager

    Republicofscotland
    24 Apr, 2015 – 9:24 pm
    Villager.

    You’re the one bitching about how you have to put up with the loons.
    _______________
    Your admission is enough for me. So Fred was right about the ‘retard’ bit!?

  • John Goss

    As I’ve mentioned before the bankers owe Greece’s debt. They stole the money and named it ‘profit’ and ‘bonuses’ to make a few people feel good. Money, as we know it, needs to be abandoned. Profit needs to be relabelled growth for enterprising businesses and needs to be limited and monitored enabling all who have contributed to have a share. GNP needs to be relabelled ‘printed money’. Banks need to be nationalised. Nationalised Banks should also determine ‘acceptable profit’. The stock exchange should be abolished. There should be a people’s representative body to ensure that there is never again a rich-list. War should be a thing of the past. That is what we should all be striving for.

    What we have got, and therefore what everybody who supports it believes in, is a pyramid starting with the Rockefellas, Cinderellas, Rothschilds, Freddies and Fannies et al, Oligarchs, the super-rich list, most of whom (if not all) will go to war to achieve their ends, followed by the rich-list until much further down the pecking-order we reach the 99%. Small businesses, farms, small engineering companies are either forced out of business or swamped up by the corporates and the gap between rich and poor is widening – but only in monetary terms.

    The super-rich are hoping to construct more prison factories where, like factory chickens, they can shed their feathers pecking away in the dark, or if they fail to produce face the guillotine. The United States already has the highest prison population in the world. Prisons are being built on a mass scale. Guantanamo was an experiment to see if people would accept the mass imprisonment of innocent people. Now they have – there is no limit to what can be achieved. Wake up world. There will not be many more alarm-calls.

  • John Goss

    Villager, you should have done the same as Noddy and left the building after you had been shown to be the Toytown Idiot yet again with your unremitting support for Noddy’s ridiculous gold quest. Where is your pride?

  • John Goss

    Thanks Dave, almost made me laugh, but if you’ve been out with the trawling-boats, as I have, you know what a dangerous and perilous enterprise it is without entanglements in NATO exercises. If Russian submarines are anywhere they are almost certainly in the Channel waiting for some earth-shattering event. NATO should have done its fishing expedition there methinks.

  • Villager

    Dross, I don’t know which building you’re in but it appears to be an asylum, a cuckoo’s nest. You confirmed my suspicions when you cam back with links to the dubious global research and of course your favourite RT.

    Together with a promotion of your own lonely blog which at the drop of a pin you promote here. Looking for more customers? As a Russian Troll-Doll, of course you would be! Good luck with your Chancellor Goss strategic-blueprint above. Get real, man or remain a laughable armchair warrior.

    You still haven’t commiserated in Weinstein’s unfortunate death. Well into his 70’s, the man was doing good, meaningful work.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    re European gold reserves held in the US

    Mr Goss (self-described as a “writer”) and the his transatlantic supporter Lysias (self-described as an Oxford Greatsman, sailer and soldier) have provided several links to back up Mr Goss’s assertion that European countries’ gold reserves are held in the US and that the US is refusing to give them back to their owners.

    Firstly, let us note that many of the links are from Russia Today (of course) and from either dubious (globalresearch.org and zerohedge.com) or unknown (Jon Rappoprt’s Blog – who he??) sources.

    Secondly, let us note that Mr Goss is playing his usual trick with the sources he gives, in that they do not, on closer inspection, bear out what he writes in his own comment.

    Thus, it appears from the links that some European countries have indeed lodged some of their gold reserves in New York. Not all European countries and very far from all their gold.

    Thirdly, and most importantly, none of the links provides any evidence for the assertion that European countries have asked for their gold reserves back and have had their requests refused.

    I challenge Mr Goss and Lysias to reproduce, verbatim, text from any of their links which back up their assertion.

    THey will not do so, because there is no such text in their links.

    The conclusions therefore are twofold:

    1/. Mr Goss has had another of his famous “moments”

    2/. Mr Goss and his friend Lysias are liars and deceivers.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    DUMP reals, rupees, rubles and renminbis, BUY £s, $s, Swiss franks and shekels!

  • Suhayl Saadi

    I was totally wrong about Libya. Naively, I was hoping for better things from the overthrow of the various dictators across some of the countries in the region. Craig is correct; Libya has been a disaster.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Villager

    “Dross, I don’t know which building you’re in but it appears to be an asylum, a cuckoo’s nest.”
    _______________________

    Your reference to a cuckoo’s nest shows clearly how difficult it is to work out what sort of a bird Mr Goss is.

    In one way, he is a cuckoo – as evidenced by him laying his many eggs in the nest of Crag Murray. And he is, of course, plainly cuckoo.

    On the other hand, the content of his writings and his reaction to being corrected identify him clearly as a Great Tit.

    I leave it to qualified ornithologists to provide a definitive ruling.

  • John Goss

    Bill C-51 will drive through a whole raft of intelligence reforms that, Canadians are calling “The Canada Patriot Act.”

    ————————————————————-

    I think we know all there is to know about any Patriot Act. So let’s sing along RoS. Clancy Brothers’ version.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g5vm2mLb2c

  • lysias

    How many times do I have to repeat that I have never been a member of the U.S. Army?

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    And how many times does one have to ask what a member of the US Navy (allegedly) was doing in the US garrison on West-Berlin (allegedly) – given that the garrison was formed from various US Army units?

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    And how many times must one politely enquire whether the (alleged) Greatsman knew Bowra when up at Oxford?

  • lysias

    I don’t see why I have any obligation to correct a poster’s mistaken assumptions, especially when they involve impertinent inquiries about my life that have nothing to do with the issues at hand.

    Typical troll behavior is to seize upon any irrelevant issue to divert discussion.

  • Macky

    John Spencer-Davis; “I wonder if anyone will even remember it. And I wonder if an honest accounting will ever be made of it.”

    Indeed, probably not in the life time of anybody who has any sort responsibility or connection, but I like to think that the full history of all the dark deeds of our times will eventually be written in some more humane future time.

    Suhayl Saadi; “I was totally wrong about Libya.”

    I had your cards marked even before that; and to think that some here hold you in high esteem.

  • John Goss

    “Typical troll behavior is to seize upon any irrelevant issue to divert discussion.”

    Now you’re learning Lysias. You notice they never do any of their own research, divert from the topic, divert from the sub-topic, ad-hominems galore, support for fellow-trolls. Who are they fooling? I don’t begrudge them what they are paid because, although it is only confetti money, everybody has to live. Even trolls. When you understand this you know all.

  • RobG

    Well, Craig always moans about us not staying on topic with regard to his posts; so I hope he forgives me for staying on the subject of Scotland, and what will be one of the most historic General Elections since at least 1945.

    Mhairi Black is the SNP candidate for Paisley and Renfrewshire South, and is standing against Douglas Alexander, shadow Foreign Secretary, Labour Party election campaign co-ordinator, and current MP for Paisley and Renfrewshire South.

    Mhairi Black is 20 years old and about to graduate from Glasgow university. The Ashcroft polls presently put her 9 points above Alexander. If Black gets elected it will make her the youngest MP in Westminster in almost 400 years. Here’s a piece about her from today’s Independent:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-mhairi-black-the-20yearold-who-could-become-the-youngest-mp-since-1667-10202932.html

    I don’t know Mhairi Black personally, and have no associations with her. All I will say is that Mhairi Black is yet another sign of the extraordinary things that are happening in UK politics at the moment.

    Black was also mentioned in a Guardian piece today, and for those who might not have seen it:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/24/rage-against-the-labour-party-from-disillusionment-to-meltdown-in-scotland

  • John Goss

    Before continuing to support the Yanks in their attempted overthrow of Europe via Ukraine you might like to hear what Eric Bogle had to say about a similar period in world history (but before the atom bomb) at Gallipoli. “We buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs, then we started all over again.

    And the band played Waltzing Matilda.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG48Ftsr3OI

    Great song, great message.

  • Clark

    When Suhayl Saadi is wrong, he says this:

    “I was totally wrong about Libya”

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/04/a-horror-we-made/comment-page-3/#comment-521856

    When Macky is wrong, she says this:

    “I originally linked the article from which these quotes are from, primarily for the Odessa Massacre debate I was having with Peacewisher & RD, exactly because the last few paragraphs concerned the Odessa Massacre; indeed I did recommended the whole article as worth reading, which does not automatically mean I agree with all its points; also it should be obvious that because it tries to cover so much ground, it does so very superficially, hence all those provided follow-up links, so to quote some of these brief lines as full & definite, is misleading, and finally you have to keep in mind that the article is already six months old, so not only are certain factors better known now, but I have also linked to dozens of more up todate articles that elaborate better on the points I keep making.”

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/02/amnesty-international-conference-on-torture/comment-page-14/#comment-512784

    That’s one reason why I hold Suhayl Saadi in the highest regard.

  • John Goss

    Instead of criticising a good person, Macky, you should be trying t prevent the war Macky and I are trying to prevent, to let decent people live decent lives without being goosetepped over by fascists. Listen to the Eric Bogle song, get rid of your prejudice Clark, it is eating you away. It was the Turks as well as Australians who died at Gallipoli and sometimes there are worse things than death. Work out who the aggressors are and get off your high horse.

  • Macky

    Clark; “When Macky is wrong”

    Only in your fevered & wishful imagination, until it will take at least a rationally sane person to determine whetever or not I’m wrong about something.

  • John Goss

    Clark, I am surprised that Suhayl, or anyone else for that matter, could ever have condoned Cameron’s war on Libya, the one that has led to the displacement and death of so many people. Yet in your attempt to discredit Putin for opposing the crimes in Ukraine you are in grave danger of having to make a similar confession.

    You told me you attended Quaker Meeting Houses. There is a lot to be learned from their messages of peace and toleration of those who do not share your view.

    From Quaker Faith and Practice

    24.01 I told [the Commonwealth Commissioners] I lived in the virtue of that life and power that took away the occasion of all wars . . . I told them I was come into the covenant of peace which was before wars and strife were.”

    George Fox, 1651.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Craig will eventually get it…in fact I know he is slowly beginning to realise it..but it ain’t just a scottish Thing nor even a political thing..well of course a bit..but it really is not like that..and I sure I put labels on everything..as they do and me..wtf is all that about..I am just a human being in love..is that so bad???

    I thought No Way Could Anyone Wear a More Offensive T-Shirt Than Me Tonight..but when I walked in..(the band were brill by the way()())

    So whilst Buying Them…I said To The Bar Man

    Take One For Yourself Mate….

    He Said Thank You Tony…

    You see we Appreciate These Things..and we think no one notices what we wear???

    Fck Off who is it Dolce And Fkin Joe Bloggs??

    Go and stick your Fashion Up Your Ass

    We are British Working Class.

    Tony

  • Mary

    I was reading through the comments on Medialens. This one conveys my own thoughts. Commemorations of war are very important for the warmongers. Minor royals are despatched to participate. The clergy too.

    ‘BBC’s Lucy Hockings describes Gallipoli as a defeat but also “victory of comradeship and mate-ship.”

    I’m watching this right now and unfortunately I’m unable to record any of this sickeningly revisionist coverage that flies in the face of what has been reported and depicted widely for years that the ANZAC’s, in Gallipoli as with the other soldiers who fought elsewhere for the British Empire lost their lives because of incompetence from the supposed High Command.

    There’s no mention of the sheer wastage of human lives and lessons for the present day and future generations. Instead, we hear buzzwords of sacrifice and heroism and even the clergy contributes the false narrative spiel claiming that Gallipoli was an example of people fighting to keep others safe.’

    In just over 8 months, half a million lives were lost.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_Campaign

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Cos they don’t believe me..and they think I am making it up..

    So Do They Know?

    I Just Want These Evil Cunts To Know

    Didn’t work did it???..You may think it has you EVIL… Die and we don’t even notice that you evil cunts have gone cos it happens so Gracefully and Gradually.

    Tony 666 ALE

    HELL’S ANGELS

    Oldham Lancashire

    Now Fuck Off You American and Israeli Jewish Cunts

    You Have No Idea What You are Up Against

    ME

    My older brother said if you can find all the bits in the cellar..then you can have it for free..It is yours..So I was riding My BSA250 (c15) Legallaly on My 16th Birthday..sure The Police caught me..I was only 16 (42mph in a 30 mph speed limit)..and so I had to go to court at Oldham Magistrates..cos I was too young just to accept a fine…

    The Copper said to me..Next Time..Look in Your Mirror Lad…

    So I thought fuck this..I know I have done the best with my Dad..to rebuild this old motorbike…

    Then my Other brother (now in The Wirral..got back into it)

    He sometimes used to take me to School on The Back Of His Single Cylinder AJS350..and god did it kick..but I was too young..No Way would he let me have a go on his bike….

    Then a few years later..he said try this…

    He had rebored the thing..and well my Dad was a Brilliant Engineer..

    I was only 19…

    I thought shiit is Sex as Good as This??

    So I took Up Gliding..It Was The Only Way To Pull Even More g

    TRIUMPH TIGER 650

    (it went round bends too)

    So I sold my BSA250 for £37

    And Bought This BSA650 for £35

    Registration Number 666 ALE

    Well of course I didn’t get all the money straight away..I kept the log book until I got my £37 in full..I had plans for it..and sure I went for it on my push bike..that’s all I had.

    Fitton Hill..if My Memory Serves Me Right..But I had already done Langley Estate in Middleton

    So I got my £7..otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to afford it..

    Still didn’t pull the girl ..but wtf..I didn’t have a spare crash helmet.

    I had a BSA650 Goldstar

    Total Classic..possibly the most Beautiful Motorcycle in the World

    cos she kept leaking oil…and so I had to keep pulling her to bits..and really learn engineering

    putting her back together again and riding her..

    Tony

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