Israeli Criminals No Longer Welcome 176


The state of Palestine today becomes a member of the International Criminal Court. This has a practical significance beyond the additional political pressure it piles on Israel. It means that in future Israelis will be liable to the jurisdiction of the court for crimes committed on Palestinian territory, despite Israel’s refusal to sign up to the court along with that other international rogue state, the United States of America.

In the case of the murders on the Mavi Marmara, the Court ruled that the scale of the incident did not reach the bar required for the Court’s jurisdiction – that it does not try war crimes which are individual acts. However it will be impossible to argue that at the next mass Israeli killing in Gaza, or even at the next large scale seizure of territory for Israeli settlements.

One of the many disgraces of neo-con government in the UK is the existence of legislation passed by the UK parliament specifically to allow Israeli war criminals to visit the UK without fear of arrest. That however will be overridden by Britain’s obligation to detain and hand over persons indicted by the International Criminal Court. Today’s apparently small step could change the atmosphere for the arrogant Israeli elite in a fundamental way. They will no longer be able to massacre hundreds of Palestinian women and children whenever they feel it boosts their cause, without some concern about personal consequences.

With the prospect of a deal bringing Iran back into the international community also appearing bright, we can be allowed a rare moment of optimism.


176 thoughts on “Israeli Criminals No Longer Welcome

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  • glenn_uk

    Good question, Lysias. We attacked, invaded and occupied Iraq on the pretence that it had nuclear weapons, in part. Yet Kempe wants to claim there’s nothing wrong with doing so (even if it were true in Iraq’s case – a war he cheerfully endorsed!).

    As just a sample of the list of criminal actions from this “perfectly rational” state, Israel builds on occupied territories, forced evictions and demolition of Palestinian homes, particularly those to shift east Jerusalem’s demographic balance. Or Israel’s restricting Palestinian access to water:

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2009/10/20091026132714361238.html

    One could go on about Israel’s crimes at considerable length. When some stooge like “Anon” comes along to feign bafflement – “What? What? Why on earth pick on Israel – you’re all anti-semites!” – it serves to highlight the disingenuousness of Israel’s apologists, and gives yet more opportunity to highlight these crimes.

  • nevermind

    Lysias, it is a problem that Israel could acquire nuclear weapons by stealth and with the collaboration of countries who should answer to it, and NO, Iran has never muttered a word about wanting to build or buy nuclear weapons.
    I mean the US via their double agent in Vienna once tried to make out that Iran could be interested in the falsified nuclear blueprint they tried and hand over to them, but that does not mean that they have actively encouraged Iran into developing nukes, nor does it mean that they have destabilised Zionists minds with this move, enough for them to ‘fear’ non existing Irani nukes.

    Why should Israel be allowed to get away with having nukes, when nobody else in the middle east wants or desires them? should be the question

    When paranoia leads the thinking of warmongering rogues reality turns into a Fata Morgana.

  • lysias

    It may well be the case that Iran is not seeking to develop nuclear weapons. But nevertheless I still ask my question, because, if there would be no problem in Iran acquiring nuclear weapons, what is the justification for imposing sanctions on Iran merely because it has a nuclear program?

  • fred

    “If Israel’s possession of nuclear weapons is not illegal, what is the problem with Iran acquiring nuclear weapons?”

    Because it would be illegal.

    People don’t seem to understand how international law works, they think it is like a country’s laws and it isn’t. There is no superior nation to crate and enforce international law fortunately so there is no universal law. All there is are a lot of treaties, agreements between various countries.

    Iran signed the NPT so if they created nuclear weapons they would be in breach of contract. Israel never signed the treaty so they would not have broken the law.

  • nevermind

    It was never about nukes Lysias, it was always about who is in global control over vital resources.
    Saudi fears both Iraq and Iran for their vast untapped wealth and what this would mean when Saudi wells fail to keep the kingdom in the order its has been accustomed to,i.e. their order, imho.
    Thats why they are sucking up to Satanyahu, he’s their helper and strong man, just as Saddam once was when he dared to attack Iran.

    Those who make out its a Shia vs. Sunni conflict are just using religion like a condom.

  • nevermind

    A longish interview with Slavoj, why Europe is stagnating, why we are not happy with the pretence of democracy anymore. I rather like this red devil, he could almost be family.

    SPIEGEL: Is this aim not expecting too much of a liberal democracy?

    Žižek: Yes. We should go beyond liberal democracy. Ordinary democracy works as follows: The majority of voters seem satisified with the pretence of freedom of choice. but in reality they do as they are told. It is telling that Germans’ favorite choice of government is a grand coalition (Eds note: a governing coalition that pairs the country’s two largest parties, the center-left Social Democrats and the conservative Christian Democrats). Out of fear of having to make truly radical, pioneering decisions, people are acting as if decisions are made on their own, based on the circumstances, on practical constraints and on pre-determined conditions. But sometimes you also have to alter the field of meaning instead of just skillfully analyzing things and adapting to them. The development of a general will, Rousseaus’ volonté générale, doesn’t happen in this way. The development of will remains individualized and privatized and is ultimately apolitical. That’s a great environment for capitalism because liberal democratic freedom and individualized hedonism mobilize people for its purposes by transforming them into workaholics.

    SPIEGEL: What do you see as the alternative?

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/slavoj-zizek-greatest-threat-to-europe-is-it-s-inertia-a-1023506.html

  • lysias

    For a contract to be valid, the parties to it must receive a consideration, i.e., something of value. In a Middle East where an aggressive Israel has hundreds of nukes, I wonder what of value Iran has received as a result of signing the NPT.

  • John Goss

    Kempe

    “None of which make possession of nuclear weapons by Israel illegal as you claimed.”

    As well as not being a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty Israel is in contravention of at least 6 General Assembly resolutions. Two Security Council resolutions it is in breach of regarding its possession of nuclear weapons are: 3263 and 3474.

    You can read up on them yourself.

  • John Goss

    And now Fred with his twopenn’orth. Hang on I don’t like that law. I won’t sign up. You do talk bollocks! Not for the first time.

  • fred

    And now Fred with his twopenn’orth. Hang on I don’t like that law. I won’t sign up. You do talk bollocks! Not for the first time.

    Fuck off shit for brains.

  • Anon1

    Nevermind

    “Its special trading arrangements with EU countries should be sanctioned first, products under Israeli ownership should not be traded anywhere until Israel changes its aggression”

    Actually I quite like buying Israeli products, Nevermind. I particularly like the Yatir Winery’s 2005 Cabernet Sauvignon, of which I have just ordered another case, so thank you for reminding me as I notice I am down to my last bottle. And don’t get me worried about sanctions or I shall be forced to start stockpiling.

    Cheers!

  • fred

    “I wonder what of value Iran has received as a result of signing the NPT”

    It means that they can develop nuclear technology for peaceful means and other countries who have signed the NPT can legally help them.

  • Anon1

    Herbie

    Sorry, Herbs, missed your post.

    “Why then do those charged with responsibility for Israel’s security, the Mossad, Shin bet and IDF Intelligence, state that it’s the irrational policies of successive Israeli politicians which are the greater threat to Israeli security?”

    I don’t think they do. A few have, many others haven’t. You read somewhere on the internet that some head of the security services commented after his retirement that Israel’s policies are counterproductive and seized on it. You have a database of links and quotes of this variety that do the rounds on the internet and I have seen them all a hundred times before. You see, you don’t actually know anything about Israel. You just recycle this material which you found online again and again to try and ‘prove’ a given point.

  • glenn_uk

    “Anon” writes (paraphrased): “I buy the products from occupied territories. I support war crimes. I take holidays to support war criminals” – etc. etc. .

    Perhaps you do prop up genocidal, apartheid states with your funds, “Anon”. But that hardly justifies their crimes, does it?

  • Republicofscotland

    The Israeli’s,will no doubt find some way around the jurisdiction,if not they’ll resume,their attack on the likes of livestock like the “Wanted 18.”

    The Wanted 18,were a herd of Palestinian cows,milked in a small,dairy farm at Beit Sahour,that were considered a national security risk to Israel.

    Of course in reality they posed no risk to Israel,other than,the dairy farm allowing some degree,of control to the Palestinians over where they got their dairy products from.

    That’s what the whole incidents,and some current incidents are all about,control,the Israeli’s want to control,every aspect of Palestinian life.

    Such was the infamy of the Wanted 18 (they got that name because the dairy farmers hid the cows from Israeli soldiers) that a Canadian animated documentary was made about the whole affair.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wanted_18

  • Courtenay Barnett

    I well and truly lament the longest on-going conflict since World War 11.
    The easy way out for anyone who wants to escape what I have to say about the Zionist/Palestinian conflict is to label me “anti-Semitic”. Yet – all the glue in the world will not permit the label to stick. Better to have honest debate and see a way forward.
    N.B. I say “Zionist” because of the manner in which the state of Israel was created; and – I am of the firm view that not all Jews are Zionists – and some Jews are able and willing to come to reasonable compromise. They were paid reparations and so can the Palestinians in a mature approach to resolve the conflict in a “non-Netanyahunian manner”.

    The points of observation I make are largely focused on the immediate pre-World War 11 period going forward to the present.
    Observation 1
    As a young student at London University, I recall a round table discussion involving a Palestinian Professor and a Jewish Professor. One articulating the Palestinian perspective on the conflict; the other articulating ( I must say) the Zionist perspective on Israel. I say the latter to state that the forced movement of some 700,000 Palestinians; the state imposed policy of negating the former villages geographical existence; the expansion beyond the 1967 borders – must make any person of conscience question – as I did then, in my early 20s, the justice offered then and existing now for the Palestinian people. However, what impressed me most about the discussion was the civility and the thoroughness in delivery of both sides of the argument by both Professors.
    Observation 2
    While on a trip to the US I was driving and listening to a PBS program called ‘All things considered’. There I heard an interview with the famous Palestinian intellectual, Edward Said. His thoughts led to one conclusion – a one state solution – based on the demographic realties of the state of Israel accompanied by recognising the reality of what actually would constitute a democratic solution.
    Observation 3
    This ‘chosen people’ idea makes no sense to me. I am secular in thought; yet also tolerant of religious beliefs. The mistake on the ‘chosen people’ assumption – is that I would immediately anoint myself of the chosen people – so nonsense when others make the claim – I have already chosen me and I am thus ‘chosen’. But, far more seriously – how can any modern state even begin to call itself ‘democratic’ when it discriminates and legislates based on special privileges of ethnicity/religion? I rely in the development of my views heavily on the two(2) books I have read ( amongst others) by the best seller Israeli Professor, Shlomo Sand, on the topics of the creation of Israel and the invention of the Jewish people. He cannot be considered at all anything but an intellectual heavy-weight and his ideas come as quite refreshing for anyone seriously interested in resolving the on-going Palestinian/Israeli conflict. But read him here, before anyone now tries to place that label on me – and attempt the standard practice of alleging racism; anti-Semitism and the established pattern of seeking to reason with the ad hominem being used as sword rather than shielding in seeking to protect while employing sound reasoning:-
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/shlomo-sand-i-wish-to-cease-considering-myself-a-jew
    Conclusion
    The continued use of superior military force against the Palestinians by Israel and the trajectory of US foreign policy in blind support of Israel does not serve the best interest of Israel for its longevity and peaceful survival; neither does current US foreign policy serve the interest of justice for the Palestinians. One well recalls the thousand years of rule proclaimed by Ian Smith for the White man and the West’s unrelenting support of the racists in South Africa. The current pattern for Israel is therefore perfectly consistent with the recent past. And, as with the recent past, a change is coming and the tide of history shall continue to ensure an inexorable drift, if not push, towards justice.

  • Mary

    Anon1
    ‘I particularly like the Yatir Winery’s 2005 Cabernet Sauvignon, of which I have just ordered another case Win ……..’

    Oh yes. The Yatir Winery in Tel Arad where the IDF thugs were recently turfing Palestinians out of their homes and then demolishing the buildings.

    IOA razes Palestinian village east of Negev
    27.2.2015
    RAMALLAH, (PIC)– The Israeli occupation authorities (IOA) on Thursday knocked down Palestinian homes in Tel Arad village, south of the occupied Negev.

    Local sources said the Palestinian natives of Tel Arab became homeless after Israeli bulldozers escorted by police forces destroyed their homes and cultivated lands.

    The demolished homes belong to al-Zabarqa family, the same sources said, adding that the IOA seized the families’ belongings and forced them out of their homes.

    Sometime earlier, the IOA tore down six Palestinian family homes in Sa’wa village, in the same area, as part of a systematic ethnic cleansing policy pursued by the Israeli occupation government against the Negev people.

    http://english.palinfo.com/site/pages/details.aspx?itemid=70370

  • nevermind

    ‘You see, you don’t actually know anything about Israel.’

    Says who? The brothers Grimm? what utter fairytale. I’ve been there and found the Apartheid crushing, and that was during the seventies, today this must be to the power of ten.

    We also see the inhumane warfare against young innocent children, Israel likes to spend its bullet on children, that guarantees hatred and ill feeling in future, the only glue that brings Zionists to power, spreading hatred and fear.

    Please don’t lecture us on the excesses of zionist rogue’s, who don’t stop at destroying Judaism, who have divided Israel and who are destroying its future as it exists, from within their very own hating hearts.

    Now go and savour your impoverished wine, ohnanon and enjoy that Hershey excuse of a chocolate bar.

  • Mary

    O/T HSBC’s Rona Fairhead is the chair of the BBC Trust. Now the PTB have appointed a rep of the arms trade as the vice chair.

    ‘Keep arms companies out of the BBC

    The Chairman of BAE Systems, Roger Carr, has just been appointed as Vice-Chairman of the BBC Trust. It’s a position that comes with a lot of prestige, and puts him right at the heart of the organisation.

    Please add your name to our petition and demand Roger Carr step down as Vice Chairman of the BBC.

    BAE Systems is Europe’s biggest arms company and has armed dictatorships and human rights abusers around the world, including Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Israel. Now its chairman, Roger Carr, will be paid £70,610 a year of taxpayers money as Vice Chairman of the BBC Trust.

    The BBC is supposed to be run in the public interest. Arms companies don’t care about culture, broadcasting or the public good. All they care about is arms sales and gaining legitimacy while they line their pockets.

    Campaigning can work. Last year BBC Political Editor, Nick Robinson, was forced to pull out of speaking at the ADS Annual Dinner, a banquet for arms dealers, following a high profile campaign by CAAT. Now we must make sure the BBC isn’t used as a vehicle to promote BAE Systems.

    Please sign the petition and demand the BBC cuts its ties with Carr and the arms trade.

    https://www.caat.org.uk/get-involved/act-now/petition/bbc

    Carr has been on the boards of 8 companies-

    Chairman of BAE Systems
    Chairman of Centrica plc[1]
    Non-executive Director of the Bank of England
    Chairman of Mitchells & Butlers
    Chairman of Chubb Locks
    Chairman of Thames Water
    CEO of Williams Holdings

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Carr_(businessman)

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Craig,

    Glad to see you back posting on your blog. I hope you have finished your book..I have thought about writing a book..but don’t think I could find an editor..though someone did offer about 12 years ago..sort of……

    Anyhow ( I mean no offence to The Scottish – cos I am not into that)..but well I just wrote this live on The Daily Telegraph after finishing rebuilding my garden wall – I’m totally knackered..still got half the fence to do yet..fortunately my Son helps me a lot..He is 27. I am over 60.

    I don’t lie..and I don’t think you do either…which makes you my mate..and you are Someone who can Appear on Newsnight…

    T think You are an Honest Man…

    Bizarrely Enough..I think David Cameron maybe too..really crap job he’s got..poor sod (its pretty obvious he wants to lose)…

    Well – he maybe David Cameron is in an almost impossible situation – as leader of the UK…

    Think about it..Have you any idea how evil The American’s can be.

    He appears useless,,but he hasn’t caused WWIII yet..and look at all the rest of The European Leaders..they are all pretty Useless. But I will Give The French Hollande and The German Merkel..their dues for what the did..Negotating The Peace Deal..Minsk2 is it..with Putin and The Their Not Quite Nazi Pig..The Real Nazi’s in The RighSector want to KILL Him and All Russians..and JEWS and every other Fcker in The Ukraine and Russia so far as I can see..

    But All These Problems are Down to The Fact That President John F Kennedy Was Assassinated..

    He Was a Good Man.

    He Was Not a NAZI

    and Cameron isn’t either..Blair was just a Brainwashed Gay Boy who had No ENGLISH Balls whatsoever…

    He Is Scottish….

    If George Bush had asked Me To Shag Him..I wouldn’t even have shagged his Daughter ..

    But These Scottish Politicians I.. mean FFS They Have Betrayed The UK..cos You Cnts Wanted Your Independence and Your Fkin Oil…Well Fck Off With It ..

    We are ENGLISH we don’t want you nor your fkin OIL

    Fck Off..Goodbye To Both The Scottish, The EU and The Americans

    We will keep The Irish..cos they are well dead nice..and the Welsh..and The Russians..cos They have All The Resources in The World (and we get drunk with them in The Maldives) ..and The Germans, French and Spanish – well and Greeks too..

    But You Scottish, and You Americans and You Israelis..Can FCK OFF

    Unless You Can Behave.

    Tony

  • Habbabkuk (La vita e' bella)

    “One of the many disgraces of neo-con government in the UK is the existence of legislation passed by the UK parliament specifically to allow Israeli war criminals to visit the UK without fear of arrest.”

    __________________________

    I remain an admirer of Craig’s drafting skills – as I have frequently said, the FCO doesn’t hire the unsophisticated.

    Whereas it is correct that the legislation referred to was passed following various visits (or non-visits) to the UK by Israeli public figures, the impression Craig gives – perhaps inadvertently? – is that it is an piece of legislation which only applies to Israelis.

    In fact, the general point of the legislation is to prevent any individual or organisation from being able to effect the arrest of a visiting foreign public figure by simply persuading any old magistrate to agree that the individual in question might have been guilty of a war crime or crime against humanity; the effect of the legislation is to remove that power from said any old magistrate and to put it in the hands of the DPP.

    Very sensible, some would say, given the number of individuals and organisations with a grievance about virtually every foreign public figure one could imagine.

    And a welcome end to vexatious and often publicity-seeking behaviour.

    I note that Craig has also referred to Israeli “war criminals”, thus asserting without further ado that they are indeed guilty of war crimes. But who says they are guilty of war crimes – Mary? Mr Goss? Republicofscotland?

  • Republicofscotland

    Tony Opmoc.

    Stop smoking those funny shaped cigarettes,they’re turning what little brain matter, you have,to mush.

  • Republicofscotland

    Well, well, well,you know who shows up on an Israeli themed thread,unusual to say the least,it must have taken more than one glass of sherry,to bring this one out his shell,on this thread.

    Will he defend,the indefensible,or will he dodge the flack,we’ll just have to wait and see.

  • glenn_uk

    RoS: If it were just the funny-fags, Tony Opmoc wouldn’t be anything like as bad – I fear it’s a vast amount of alcohol that has pickled his brain. God knows what it’s doing to his liver.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Craig, I have now written what you wrote tonight..one step at a time..but I think one thing we can be reasonably proud of in the UK is well..its been very heavily corrupted in so many kinds of ways..but My Ex’s Kid’s studied Law..Both in Manchester Bizarrely enough…

    And I think some of these old buggers..occasionally wake up and notice a witness speaking the truth.

    Some people are both honest and still have a mind that is still alive…

    Tony

  • Tony_0pmoc

    that should read read “Craig, I have now written”..sorry I am physically exhausted and a bit drunk..but I do link to Craig Murray’s website and even copy and paste..so maybe I didn’t get it that wrong.

    Go on then slag me off as usual..if your moderator was any good he would have implemented spelling correction years ago (if you Craig Murray wanted him too – I can see a very good reason not to)

    Tony

  • Habbabkuk (La vita e' bella)

    Nevermind and other Israel-haters

    “‘You see, you don’t actually know anything about Israel.’

    Says who? The brothers Grimm? what utter fairytale. I’ve been there and found the Apartheid crushing, and that was during the seventies, today this must be to the power of ten.”
    ______________________

    So you have been to Israel and found that it was an “Apartheid state”>

    So OK, let’s start the lesson again from the beginning.

    The noun “apartheid” specifically denotes the system of govt and social organisation applicable in South Africa from 1948 to 1991.

    When calling another state an “apartheid state”, therefore, it follows that the comparison (or analogy) made is with the former South Africa.

    The apartheid system rested on a raft of legislation setting out the basic “principles” and fundamental elements of the system, in particular the Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act (1949), the Population Registration, Group Areas, Immorality and Suppression of Communism Acts (all 1950) and the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act (1951), complemented by the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act (1953) which provided the legal basis for a whole series of vexatory legislation such as whites/black/coloured only facilities (beaches, park benches, separate hospitals and schools, busses and bust stops, etc, etc, etc.

    Now, no one on here has been able to refute my assertion that there is nothing remotely comparable to any of the above basic laws of apartheid in the present-day State of Israel.

    As for the petty discriminations (“petty apartheid”) enabled by the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act of 1953, Anon’s first hand report of his recent stay in the State of Israel has shown that this sort of petty apartheid does not exist either.

    Consequently, to call the State of Israel an apartheid state is to spout ill-informed nonsense based either on ignorance or, more likely, slanderous intent.

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