Bombs Kill Shock 204


After UK and US bombs have been devastating the Middle East for over a decade, killing certainly tens and probably hundreds of thousands of people, including many thousands of children, the media have suddenly noticed this morning that bombs kill an awful lot of civilians. But only Russian bombs, of course. British bombs are cheerful, happy and their shrapnel and blast are brilliantly engineered only to go in the direction of bad guys.

The UK/US bombing of Sirte was approximately 500 times more devastating than the Russian bombings yesterday. Yet strangely there was not one single BBC report on the thousands of civilian casualties they caused in just one of many towns they bombed in Libya.

It is worth pointing out that whether yesterday’s bombing by the Russians was against ISIL or against a different bunch of crazed Islamist rebels, one still supported by the CIA and Saudi Arabia, makes no difference whatsoever to the legal position. It was at the request of the Government of Syria and thus legal. That is not to say I support it. I do not. Bombing kills civilians and just causes more hate.

I have the confidence in my fellow human beings to believe that a substantial number will see through the propaganda and realise British bombs do that too.

My optimism extends to the quite astonishing media attack on Jeremy Corbyn. The scorn and bias of the media in dealing with him has awoken many to the fact that we do not in reality live in a democratic society. People are not free to present alternative ideas to the electorate and obtain a fair hearing for them.

But still I think there will be some effect. For an entire generation, broadcast media and print newspapers had never given the slightest indication that there might be a moral dilemma involved in pushing a button to kill a billion people directly, and set off a chain of events that will destroy all human life. The spluttering fury by the establishment at the revelation that there are in existence the kind of people who would not do that, is a wonder to behold.

But all that rage is revealing the existence of the moral dilemma to people from whom it has been effectively hidden as a topic of legitimate and serious debate. People will start to think. That is why Corbyn is so dangerous to the establishment. He has opened a Pandora’s box of ideas.


204 thoughts on “Bombs Kill Shock

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  • nevermind

    yes he is rattlin’ cages,Craig, a bit like Norwich City did at West Ham last weekend, and its quiet a big box he’s opening.

    Should we discourage him from cycling through London? After all these attacks on his character, the hysteria about his position on the NNPT, that he actually believes in whats written in the treaty, all this makes me think that he needs some protection. I hope that other parties have realised this too and ensure that their very own zealotries are kept at bay.

    His supporters will now be targeted with all sorts of slurs, for daring to support a unilateral nuclear disarmer. I’m sure that those who swung hammers against jets such as Angie Zelter, and sat for hours in the pelting rain in Faslane, it always rains in Faslane….will be happy at Corbyn’s declaration.

    The next election will be fought on a for or against basis, whatever other issues Corbyn wants to air, this issue will dominate the right wing MSM. It will also make for local rancour as people join the black or white tribe.

    I’m already dreading another skewed election. Watch Jack&son try and keep hold of Blackburn, again with the support of a weak conservative candidate.

  • Ex Pat

    ANTI-FASCIST REASONS TO BE CHEERFUL

    A FEW MORE IDEAS

    1. Julian Assange – ‘The Wikileaks Files’, by John Pilger

    “Reading The WikiLeaks Files, I remembered the words of the late Howard Zinn, who often referred to “a power that governments can’t suppress”.  That describes WikiLeaks, and it describes true whistleblowers who share their courage.”

    “On a personal note, I have known the people of WikiLeaks for some time now. That they have achieved what they have in circumstances not of their choosing is a source of constant admiration. Their rescue of Edward Snowden comes to mind. Like him, they are heroic: nothing less.”

    “Sarah Harrison’s chapter, ‘Indexing the Empire’, describes how she and her comrades set up an entire Public Library of US Diplomacy. There are more than two million documents, now available to all.  “Our work,” she writes, “is dedicated to making sure history belongs to everyone.”  How thrilling it is to read those words, which also stand as a tribute to her own courage.”

    “From the confinement of a room in the Ecuadorean embassy in London, the courage of Julian Assange is an eloquent response to the cowards who have smeared him and the rogue power seeking revenge on him and waging a war on democracy.”

    “None of this has deterred Julian and his comrades at WikiLeaks: not one bit. Isn’t that something?”

    2. US Empire Response to Challengers – see comments

    3. John Pilger videos – see comments

    There is an entire political education in John Pilger’s documentaries. Everything you knew in 1970, but (mostly) forgot was correct – Yes Virginia, they _are_ fascists using the methods of the Nazis. No. REALLY!! ; )

    ‘The Revolutionary Act of Telling the Truth’, by John Pilger, 30th September 2015 – ICH –

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43008.htm

  • Peter Kemp

    Shorter Putin: Better the devil we know (Assad) than the one we don’t (ISIS). If Assad and Syria are defeated anyone who thinks the ‘moderate’ rebels will take over rather than ISIS is an idiot. That’s why we are equal opportunity bombing rebels and if some of those are US supported, we don’t give a fuck.

  • DomesticExtremist

    Good contrast that one: Russian bombs killings civilians, but Jeremy Corbyn’s refusal to push the nuclear button and kil millions is a “htreat to our national security”.

    Whilst Corbyn will be predictably demonised, he has reopened a debate that hasn’t been had for over a generation. We should thank him for that.

  • fedup

    It is worth pointing out that whether yesterday’s bombing by the Russians was against ISIL or against a different bunch of crazed Islamist rebels,

    Preliminary reports point to “Army of Victory” (Jaishalfat’h) a bunch of crazed lunatics firmly supported by the ever so beneficence and benevolent CIA et al. Hence the torrents of indignations in the oligarch owned media.

    Very true this latest revelations that bombs actually kill civilians had never been discovered before. Although this lack of discovery could have a lot to do with the fact that zionistan bombs Palestinians regularly for any number of excuses included the bad hair day experiences of some of the zionist supremacists lording over those benighted Palestinians. Less said about the bombings on demand ordered by the dear leaders in the US, UK, et al.

    The apoplectic stenographers have been using the same words and the same word template to write up on the current events; everyone signing from the same hymn sheet in government or in opposition, no U turns (U turns are for sissies, although when Johnny foreigners do the same, they are called “dictators”) and our dear leaders always at the ready to shew the gullet of the enemy and order the mass slaughter of the target nation as the enemy of the moment.

    In comes Corbyn and starts talking about lets investigate and see what people want? No I will not push the button!! A weak leader, and …… and …… poopy pants……. and and……. not forgetting…… Well now all our enemies know that we will not retaliate if they attack us and take our potholes off our roads to use in their lands!!!! Think of our potholes, how are we to replace these? We have for years witnessed these potholes on our roads grow and ruin many a suspensions and tracking on all manner of cars, nurtured them by austerity and total neglect, and now we just let Johnny Foreigner have the green light to come and take away our precious potholes! Oh the humanity!

  • Sixer

    I hope you are right, Craig. And, sitting here in my rural house in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, I see glimmers of hope. On all these security issues, my true-blue neighbours are saying, “I can’t see what’s wrong with what him. Why ARE we wasting money on Trident? Why are we wasting money dropping bombs on other people? Why can’t we spend this money on ourselves?”

    It was quite the culture shock when I moved here from London. But I think I am starting to understand my new rural peers quite well these days. They are xenophobic. They aren’t peaceniks. But, within their own surroundings, they are communitarian.

    They approve of cutting Trident and disapprove of R2P or whatever we’re calling it these days, not because they are peaceniks. They see that as the preserve of middle class Londoners. They want these things because they want better public services for themselves.

    Given that the second party where I live is UKIP, I think this shows an area in which a Corbyn-led Labour could begin to win back votes they lost to UKIP in May 2015.

  • Peter Beswick

    Sometimes bombs have to be dropped, when they are it is inevitable that innocents will be killed and maimed.

    Craig is right to say that the US has been a supporter of those who want to depose Assad (with money, technology, intel etc) they have helped keep open the supply lines to keep the food and bullets supplied to the front line.

    Craig is wrong not to support the use of bombs to destroy what the US has helped create. Sitting them down and talking is not going to help.

    Bombs only delayed the Germans taking over Europe by fifty years or so they need to be used along with other tools at the disposal of politicians. Unfortunately people like Obama and Cameron often float to the top like an unwanted turd but it is us the voters who are responsible for that.

    Any fool could see (well me at least) that peace could not and cannot be forced on the Middle East without the involvement of other countries including Russia and China. The refused to accept any other solutions but their own and look at what they have created.

    Thankfully the Russians and Chinese have said enough is enough and are going to implement their own solutions and that means more bombs will be dropped a more civilian casualties. Hopefully when they have killed all the rebels they will have the sense to invite all with an interest in the region to co-operate in a long term solution.

    But the US and UK have excluded themselves from influencing what comes next, if we the voters get the right politicians we may be invited back at some point to help shape the future of the Middle East. Until our PM might as well put his dick in a dead animal of his choosing for all the good he has done so far.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Shorter Putin: Better the devil we know (Assad) than the one we don’t (ISIS). If Assad and Syria are defeated anyone who thinks the ‘moderate’ rebels will take over rather than ISIS is an idiot. That’s why we are equal opportunity bombing rebels and if some of those are US supported, we don’t give a fuck.

    Agree. Add: our involvement will probably make the ‘nice’ rebels ally with IS, and make the West a little more cautious about arming just anyone who comes and asks for a gun.

    I still don’t see why the West is obsessed with losing Assad. He’s no nastier than a lot of people we support, left alone Syria was stable, and probably freer than Saudi as far as its citizens were concerned, and in regional terms he’s pretty small beer. The obvious route was to suppress IS by any means available, including Assad and his backers, then worry about Israel’s incessant whining demands to take the nasty mans down because he supplies Hizb’ullah….it’s sod-all to do with barrel bombs.

  • RobG

    Craig said: “My optimism extends to the quite astonishing media attack on Jeremy Corbyn. The scorn and bias of the media in dealing with him has awoken many to the fact that we do not in reality live in a democratic society. People are not free to present alternative ideas to the electorate and obtain a fair hearing for them.”

    The media coverage of the Russian air strikes has been a wonder to behold (with the Muslim bogeyman being pushed to the fore, as usual). Good propaganda is subtle, and in this respect the corporate coup d’etat seems to be coming a bit unstuck.

  • Mary

    Jeremy should watch out for the vipers within the party.

    Labour donor explains why he heckled Jeremy Corbyn at Israel event October 1, 2015

    A Labour supporter who heckled Jeremy Corbyn at a Labour Friends of Israel reception has explained his reasons for shouting at the party leader.

    Michael Foster, a Jewish donor who stood as a Labour candidate in the general election, said he had been unable to understand how Mr Corbyn could speak for eight minutes at the event without using the word “Israel”.

    As Mr Corbyn moved away from the microphone at the LFI reception in Brighton on Tuesday evening, Mr Foster shouted: “Say the word Israel, say the word Israel.”

    A former showbusiness agent who is one of the party’s leading donors having given more than £400,000 since 2010, Mr Foster told the Times: “I find it difficult to understand how the leader of the British Labour party, when he has spent the conference talking about decency, respect for human values and human rights, kindness and a new way of conducting politics, can appear on a platform in front of 250 or 300 Jewish people . . . and cannot find in his lexicon of words at that meeting, the word ‘Jew’, ‘Jewish’, ‘the UK Jewish community’ or the word ‘Israel’. That is not leadership.”

    /..
    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/146195/labour-donor-explains-why-he-heckled-jeremy-corbyn-israel-event

    A little video is provided.

  • Ishmael

    Peter Beswick- 1 Oct, 2015 – 11:08 am

    “Sometimes bombs have to be dropped”

    Do they? I call bullshit on that statement. And I don’t think any military action can or will destroy what the USUK helped create..

    This does not mean I don’t think the military can’t or won’t be any use in some form to support society ‘government’ infrastructures, to try and stabilize ares of Syria. And to hold back or prevent the spread of harm ISIL or others are doing. Truthfully I don’t know with this situation.

    But imo as I said before, what will undermine and reduce these elements is regional stability in Syria and surrounding nations.

    Of course there are other military actions that could be taken. This would probably mean more risk for tropes with small arms etc…But it seems to me if your going to be military you should accept this risk and engage other offensive groups directly to actually minimize civilian harm.

    But even that is still not something that ‘has to be done’ nothing is like that. In fact I hate that meme. It’s for war mongers.

  • Ex Pat

    ANTI-FASCIST REASONS TO BE CHEERFUL

    JOHAN GALTUNG

    US EMPIRE RESPONSE TO CHALLENGERS

    (FAIL TO) DIVIDE AND CONQUER

    > “The media coverage of the Russian air strikes has been a wonder to behold (with the Muslim bogeyman being pushed to the fore, as usual).” @ RobG 1 Oct, 2015 – 11.23 am

    Exactly. Now why would they do that?? –

    A hugely insightful view of the US Empire trying – and failing – to play the Russians and Chinese against the Muslims, from the revered father of Peace Studies, Norwegian Johan Galtung.

    “Reading the signs on the wall, big EU states may not want to go down with the USA. Reading the sign-readers, the USA may prepare for exactly that. How?” –

    “The first US policy was positive-cooperative.”

    “The second US policy was pitting them against each other. Nazi Germany was pitted against the Soviet Union, but survived; with the USA joining the victors as a latecomer also in WWII. Then, against China; but Moscow-Beijing made the SCO alliance 1996-2001. Now both are pitted against Islam. However, imagine more Islam joins the SCO?”

    “The third US policy, if the second is not working, is total war. WWII was a success for USA in Europe-Japan; the “good war”. But now SCO deters USA; and the Islamic State seems stronger than expected.”

    “The fourth and fifth US policies solidify victory and exclusion, with bases encircling, containing, de facto occupying (Japan even pays for its own occupation). Calling it “peace” is abuse of a noble idea.”

    – ‘US Policy toward Challengers: 10 Points, 28th September 2015 – Transcend –

    https://www.transcend.org/tms/2015/09/us-policy-toward-challengers-10-points/

    – Part 1 – The Axis of Evil, 21st September 2015 – Transcend –

    https://www.transcend.org/tms/2015/09/the-axis-of-evil/

    OR See Johan Galtung in ‘US Empire Response to Challengers’ a comment to

    – ‘The Revolutionary Act of Telling the Truth’, by John Pilger, 30th September 2015 – ICH –

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43008.htm

  • Mary

    More on Foster.

    ‘Michael Foster has sold his controlling stake in the Rights House, the literary and media agency he created three years ago with Caroline Michel’s Peters Fraser & Dunlop.

    Foster’s shareholding is understood to have been returned to the company. Its other backers have included Aberdeen Asset Management chief executive Martin Gilbert and former JP Morgan banker Ian Hannam.

    The deal could also lead to a larger stake in the company for another of its shareholders and former chairman, broadcaster and ex-Sunday Times editor Andrew Neil.’

    ‘Matthew Freud, who was also among the shareholders when the Rights House was created, sold his interest in the firm last year.’

    /..
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/may/24/michael-foster-sells-stake-rights-house

    The networking is incestuous.

  • Wile E Coyote

    Nobody has yet figured out what was it that kept wile b pratzel from turning up at UNGA with a new cartoon series? It must have been something extraordinary.

  • Peter Beswick

    Ishmael

    You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine but it is Putin’s opinion that is calling the shots and his opinion says bombs have to be dropped.

    You can disagree with Putin you can say he is bullshit. If you do come up with a solution for this problem without the need for bombs I will be interested to hear it (I doubt Putin will) Until then dislike the meme, call me a warmonger but come to terms with bombs being dropped. They are no longer in a future tense they are happening, argue over the syntax, hurl abuse.

    If you have no answers yet decree that everbody involved is wrong, I wonder just how helpful that is to anyone including yourself.

  • John Goss

    Unfortunately you cannot negotiate with DAESH, ISIL, Al QUAEDA, MUJAHADIN or any other extremist group. All they believe in is power throught the barrel of a gun. The US (and we as its vassal) support these terrorist groups via Saudi Arabia and other compliant shiekdoms in arming these terrorists. The game-plan, which is not working very well, is to support the most extreme elements knowing that they will go on fighting forever (till the last moron drops). Its purpose is to create a United States of the Middle East run by Israel based on the US model in the US. This causes me problems. I hate these leaders of ours and love my country. I do not wish to see anybody killed anywhere. I do not support the Russian air-strikes either.

    What you say about our media is right. There is a world domination agenda. Those of us who watched the deplorable lack of coverage of Ukraine’s genocide against its own people by a government that stole power know just how bent MSM are. It is not just Syria. The BBC mouthpiece opens and out flow the lies.

    We’re into October and within a fortnight the Dutch Safety Board is due to report on the downing of MH17 which according the Guardian “is widely believed to have been shot out of the air by a surface-to-air missile.” Very few realistic people believe that and it will be interesting to see what kind of spin is put on the fate of 298 passengers killed in a political act of deliberate sabotage and murder by a government that stole power in a coup.

  • nevermind

    Join Labour and become a new spawned mushroom, same space, same BS, and same dark conditions are offered…

    ‘join Labour?’ because they want to keep defrauding you with an electoral system worthy of a banana republic?

    or ‘join Labour’ to teach the cabinet how to read the NNPT’? start with this sentence were signatories are

    “Declaring their intention to achieve at the earliest possible date the cessation of the nuclear arms race and to undertake effective measures in the direction of nuclear disarmament”

    Frontbencher John Trickett is trying to make out that ‘local democracy’ is a target for the Tory’s in their devolution plan. What Local democracy? has he looked at what Scottish, N.Irish and Welsh voters were offered when they choose fair proportional electoral systems to elect their parliaments? what a joker…
    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/frontbencher_hits_out_over_devolution_bid_1_425

  • Ishmael

    Peter.

    “and his opinion says bombs have to be dropped.”

    No it’s not, it’s his choice they where…That presentation I can agree with…

    “I wonder just how helpful”

    God not someone try to be helpful to me again…*sigh* I swear it’s gona be the death of me. lol

    What maybe so (or at least it would give me a break) is some effort to regard what i’m saying and not kinda twist it. Not that i’m saying you have ill intent in this, maybe just not understanding.

    And I didn’t call you a warmonger…

  • Ba'al Zevul

    The West has also scored a spectacular own-goal. It’s been faffing about for three years, handing out arms like sweeties to anyone with a banner that doesn’t look like the Syrian flag, cheering Saudi on as it exports salafism to the Fertile Crescent, failed to back the Kurds, pissed Turkey off even so, and got absolutely nowhere. Enter the Russians: firm, decisive action, (albeit still limited), on behalf of a along standing ally in a bit of bother.

    Should concentrate any minds wondering who to align with, wonderfully, from Estonia to Kyrgystan.

  • Old Mark

    ‘The UK/US bombing of Sirte was approximately 500 times more devastating than the Russian bombings yesterday. Yet strangely there was not one single BBC report on the thousands of civilian casualties they caused in just one of many towns they bombed in Libya.’

    The bombing campaign that precipitated the downfall of Gadaffi, and the chaos that now reigns there, also had a devastating effect on Libya’s infrastructure and economy, as can be seen in the following table, which shows that Libya’s nominal GDP per capita fell by over a third last year-

    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/african-countries-by-gdp-per-capita.php

  • Paul Sparks

    Craig, Good post. As usual, what is required is diplomacy, not yet more bombs (although, in time, the fanatical core members of ISIS will need to be removed from the scene, in much the same way that the Ikhwan were disposed of at the Battle of Sabilla in 1929).

    Given yesterday’s attack on Jeremy Corbyn for saying that he would not be prepared to “push the button”, and your own expert inside knowledge, I think it would be useful if you could write a post about the reality of the UK’s so-called “independent nuclear deterrent”. My understanding is that the UK does not have (and never has had) an “independent” nuclear capability at all, because the systems and the software used in the UK are owned and controlled by the US, who therefore control the firing codes; so if a British PM did ever “press the button” without the prior agreement of the US President, nothing would happen. Is that the case? If it is, then it would be helpful for the public to be made aware of the impotence of all British PMs, whether or not they are willing to push the button. And, indeed, that the argument about whether or not the UK retains nuclear weapons has nothing to do with national security, and everything to do with UK politicians being able to strut around on the international stage, and sit at the “top table”.

    Paul Sparks

  • Peter Beswick

    When our politicians take the decision, on our behalf, to go to war they take an active decision to kill civilians. They say they try to minimise casualties but the truth is killing civilians has become standard practice in starting and running a war.

    Diplomats tell lies on behalf of the politicians some don’t like doing that and get sacked but others lie their way happily through their careers.

    I was once in a meeting discussing a tricky situation where I proposed a solution in which I used the word “diplomacy” the Chair of the meeting, a German I held/hold great respect for, in a raised voice said “No, No No we must tell the truth!” which explains why diplomacy during wars doesn’t count for much. When two sides don’t trust each other then diplomacy isn’t going to work, when there are about forty sides involved, as in Syria, the outcome of a negotiated settlement is further remote.

    The Historian JS Walker challenged Truman’s explanation for dropping the bombs on Japan (to put an end to the war at the earliest opportunity with the fewest of US casualties) Walker said it was more complex than that and there were five reasons behind the reason for dropping the bombs, one of which was there were not enough reasons not to.

    Bombs have multiple uses; defensive, offensive, tactical, strategic and importantly psychological.
    When our MP’s voted to bomb Iraq they knew exactly what they were voting for but because most of them are stupid or cowardly they could not envisage the consequences of their actions.

    Putin knows what he is doing and why he is doing it, just like our politicians who helped create the ongoing tragedy.

    Support or not the bombing it is going to happen and children are going to be killed, politicians have decided on that.

  • Robert Crawford

    Paul Sparks.

    You are quite right, the British P.M. would have to have permission from the American President to fire a Nuclear Warhead. Then again, the Yanks would want that glory for themselves, after all, it is theirs, is it not.

  • Robert Crawford

    Remember this, The State owned Bank of Syria does not owe anyone money.

    Name two countries who could do with free money to pay for all this bombing.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    I have a much less cynical view of the Russian bombing.

    Think Putin, thanks to his Shia intelligence network, knows where all the Western-hired thugs are, and has been waiting ages to take the offensive against them.

    Now it is happening, and Washington and NATO will not be able to stop it.

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