Standing for Independence 211


I have not heard anybody, anywhere, argue in public or on the media the case for Scottish Independence for six months (except for me). I have not heard any elected representative of the SNP argue the case for Independence for… well since Autumn 2014.

It is not surprising the increase in the polls of support for Independence has stalled, as nobody is putting the argument. The trouble with leaving the matter aside until support becomes overwhelming, is that if you leave the matter aside support never will become overwhelming.

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I am therefore considering standing as an Independent in the Scottish parliamentary elections, purely to put the full-on case for Independence. There are plenty of other people who can argue about the minutiae of the glorified council at the bottom of Holyrood Road. The SNP has explicitly stated it wants the votes of unionists as well as nationalists in this election. I don’t.

I want to give people who want to express their desire immediately to be shot of the corrupt and warmongering British state, a chance to say so unequivocally at the ballot box once again.

This is a question of principle. It is not undertaken with any expectation of being elected. I would stand in North East Scotland on the regional list ballot. The question is, were I to do this, are there people out there who would help me?


211 thoughts on “Standing for Independence

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  • MJ

    Yes, I expect bottle of champagne or two will be opened in the SNP HQ when they receive Craig’s letter.

  • Alan

    “What’s that old adage about jumping?”

    The one about the frying pan and the fire, you mean?

    Kinda like the one that goes “Better the devil you know than the one you don’t know”. We all know the UK government is full of BS, but some like to pretend the EU isn’t. “Independence” should mean “Independence”. You can’t be independent while remaining in the EU.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    what about you Ba’al, a quick run up to the Saltire free state? …;)

    Forced to decide, I would say that whether you/we like it or not, the SNP has achieved an enormous lot. I think it’s good policy to confirm and consolidate this before hopefuully advancing further.Time enough to factionalise and split if/when independence is obtained: in the current economic climate patience is needed. First, an economically viable state must be offered; second continuing (and increasing) austerity will further erode faith in global market solutions – to the point when the whole of the worm turns, not just the irritated bit. That moment is not yet near. When it comes will be the time to vote again. And until that, unity is strength.

    Also I hate the A1.

  • Alan

    Craig, when you first started this blog you sounded like a man telling truth to power. I used to send people your links to read what you had to say.

    For the past year you have sounded more like just another politician positioning himself for a place in a future Scottish administration.

    You can really have your faith in some people shattered, you know, Craig.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    It would have to go through parliament.

    A formality only. With the Lords neutered and boundary changes implemented, the Commons will be acting as a rubber stamp for whatever whim Cameron is pushing.

  • philw

    Baal “There are international socialists, whose core belief is in the brotherhood of man, the abolition of borders, and a worldwide, transcendent devotion to the greatest good of the greatest number. (Fine, but people don’t work that way.)

    And then there are those who believe that egalitarian socialist aspirations, while unattainable in the world at large, can nevertheless be reached within national boundaries under national legislation.”

    Socialism in one country is not possible unless you close the borders and become another Cuba. The capitalists, using the resources of the US state, will not tolerate the existence of states which try to restrain them. Such states will be failed (see much of Africa), balkanised (Yugoslavia), or destroyed (Libya et al) if they refuse to tow the line, and cannot be redirected (Chile 1973).

    The EU may be tolerated as long as it complies (eg TTIP), but it is looking like it may well be broken up.

    Work towards a socialist Scotland may be a good tactical move, but there will never be a really independent Scotland, any more than an independent Britain.

  • lysias

    Nuland’s “F*** the EU” does not bode well for the future of the EU. In fact, one wonders if there’s a connection between that attitude and the subsequent mass migration into Europe that has destabilized the EU.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Socialism in one country is not possible… (etc)

    OTOH more socialist as opposed to less socialist policies are perfectly possible. At what point those become ‘socialism’ as an entity is up to the country. I think you’ve overinterpreted what I said.

  • Alan

    And when you look around, and see that even the Communist Party thinks the EU sucks:

    https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-2706-Ireland-Communists-back-Britain-to-leave-EU

    and I’ll take the liberty of quoting in full:

    THE Communist Party of Ireland (CPI) has called on working people in Northern Ireland and Britain to vote to leave the European Union in the coming referendum.

    “A vote to leave can be a vote for a different way forward,” said CPI general secretary Eugene McCartan in a statement on Tuesday, “a vote against the deepening global militarisation of which the EU is one of the driving forces.”

    Mr McCartan said that a British exit would also call into question Ireland and other nations’ membership “and reopen opportunities for working-class struggle on the national level.”

    The CPI warned leftwingers against distraction by opposition to the EU from “reactionary and chauvinist forces, nostalgic for the days of the British empire.”

    It said that its support for withdrawal was based not on narrow nationalist grounds but rather upon working-class internationalism.

    “The struggle against the European Union is essentially a struggle for democracy and sovereignty,” it said.

    “It is an anti-imperialist struggle — one that some formerly anti-EU forces in the north-east of our country have walked away from, retreating into an idealised ‘critical engagement’ with imperialism.”

    The CPI said that claims that the EU was a bulwark against attacks on workers’ rights and the environment were false arguments based on illusions.

    “The EU and the treaties since the Maastricht Treaty of 1992 have been for institutionalising austerity, consolidating the interests, influence and power of … monopoly capitalism.”

    Sorry Scotland, I agree with the Irish!

  • Alan

    https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-2706-Ireland-Communists-back-Britain-to-leave-EU

    The CPI said that claims that the EU was a bulwark against attacks on workers’ rights and the environment were false arguments based on illusions.

    “The EU and the treaties since the Maastricht Treaty of 1992 have been for institutionalising austerity, consolidating the interests, influence and power of … monopoly capitalism.”

    And I agree 100% with my Irish brothers and sisters!

  • Ben-Mysogyy is my name

    “There are international socialists, whose core belief is in the brotherhood of man, the abolition of borders, and a worldwide, transcendent devotion to the greatest good of the greatest number. (Fine, but people don’t work that way.)”

    Komo; There might be two guys who see eye-to-eye and share the same social philosophy and won’t gouge one another’s eyes out.

    Now if we could just get them together on the same continent.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Such states will be failed (see much of Africa), balkanised (Yugoslavia), or destroyed (Libya et al) if they refuse to tow the line, and cannot be redirected (Chile 1973).

    No-one had to fail most of the struggling African states. Tribal warfare and the diappearance of colonial laws ensured that. Right now, China and the West are falling over themselves to grab African resources, vast sums of international aid are swallowed in the infinite sands of African corruption, and the effort to make them ‘tow’ (sic) the line seems to be no further forward, despite a lot of pious noises. Yugoslavia effectively Balkanised itself after Tito died. Only a strong man could hold it together, and it was an artificial entity in the first place. Much the same could be said, incidentally, about Syria. Libya, I will concede you, and Iraq.

  • bevin

    “Unless our friend Silvio is suggesting that the CIA will intervene in the forthcoming Scottish elections,…” -Habbakkuk

    That would seem to be precisely what he is suggesting.

    Gladio is/was merely one among a wide range of tactics the US has employed to tighten its grip over Europe since 1945.

    It is not Silvio but you who is obsessive: your obsession being to defend all imperialist policies, actions or claims. In your world the British government can do no wrong so long as it does what Washington wants. And Washington can do no wrong for reasons that, though never stated, seem to be related to a sort of determinism of the ‘might makes right’ school.

    My conviction that you are in fact trolling for the Establishment is largely based on the fact that though you loiter, impatiently on the threshold of fascism, you, for some reason, never cross it and employ overtly fascist rationales for policies-such as the Israeli attacks on Gaza- which cannot otherwise be justified. In the end all you do is to attempt to disqualify perfectly clear arguments by demanding more information or questioning the sobriety or sanity of those who make them.

    Perhaps you could explain the grounds upon which you base Israel’s claim to the land of Palestine and any adjoining bits that become too tempting not to devour? You won’t of course.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Now if we could just get them together on the same continent.

    Ben, some words of comfort. About five years after any given sufficiently bloody war, when the pols’ escuses have been exposed, and reconstruction is not yet complete, there is a pretty general agreement that war is a waste of everything, and we’d be much better off working together. It doesn’t last long, but it’s a window of opportunity. So let’s have WW3.

  • craig Post author

    Alan,

    Just caught up with your earlier comment. You think I have resigned from the party which has 60% electoral support in Scotland, in order to fight an election which I have no hope of winning, as a career move? I confess I do not follow that.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Yes, Lysias, it’s definitely an American plot. The US stirs up things in the Middle East in order to set up refugees flows which are intended to destabilise Europe.

    Not that one knows what the purpose of such destabilisation would be but hey, let’s not put any obstacles in the way of a good conspiracy theory, eh! 🙂

    *****************

    (Cue: ” I ‘m reading a book called….etc,etc..”)

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Bevin

    ““Unless our friend Silvio is suggesting that the CIA will intervene in the forthcoming Scottish elections,…” -Habbakkuk

    That would seem to be precisely what he is suggesting.”
    _________________________

    If he is then he is a fool.

    BTW, are you speaking as his duly appointed Representative of Earth? If so, good of you.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    your next few paras

    _________________________

    Good of you to spend so much of your valuable time talking about me.

    I could be a lot briefer about you.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Perhaps you could explain the grounds upon which you base Israel’s claim to the land of Palestine and any adjoining bits that become too tempting not to devour? You won’t of course.”
    ___________________

    Although those grounds have been explained ad nauseam for the last 60 years or so by people more directly concerned than I am I would be willing to do so if I had the slightest belief that you would listen with an open mind.

    But since you obviously wouldn’t (judging by your previous posts), you’re right – I won’t.

  • lysias

    The man who almost never says he has read a book (even when he was grilling me about Anne Applebaum’s book, he never said he had read it) once again criticizes me for referring to books I have read.

  • Herbie

    “Yes, Lysias, it’s definitely an American plot. The US stirs up things in the Middle East in order to set up refugees flows which are intended to destabilise Europe.

    Not that one knows what the purpose of such destabilisation would be but hey, let’s not put any obstacles in the way of a good conspiracy theory, eh!”

    Yet, that’s precisely what Gen Breedlove is accusing Russia and Syria of doing, all faithfully reported in the good ole BBC:

    “US Gen Philip Breedlove said they were “weaponising” migration to destabilise and undermine the continent.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35706238

    Pity the refugee crisis started before the Russians landed in Syria, eh.

    Oops.

  • Herbie

    Anyway, should you stand as an independent, give yourself a moniker like “Scottish Independent”, something that sounds like a party name, not one of those long explanatory phrases that independent single issue candidates often use.

    Looks much more impressive on the ballot paper.

    Or, do a Galloway and set up your own Scottish Independence Party.

    There’s a weak Lib Dem in NE Scotland.

    Ripe for the picking.

  • Anon1

    I see Stuart Rose has let slip his key reason for backing Remain: our membership of the EU keeps wages down.

    Rose fears that Brexit will increase wages, which he describes as “Not necessarily a good thing”. Not if you’re Stuart Rose.

    But at least we have a business leader who is honest about his motivations, unlike so many of the Remain camp.

  • Silvio

    Habbabkuk: earlier wrote:

    Congratulations to SILVIO for managing to sneak in – yet again! – a long screed about his favorite obsession “Operation Gladio”.

    I’m at a loss to see its relevance to Craig’s theme but I’m sure SILVIO would be happy to explain.

    Or perhaps not.

    My response:

    1) Congratulations most gratefully acknowledged and accepted.

    2) Edmund Burke – “Those who do not know history are bound to repeat it”.

    3) Although some would like us to believe that NATO/CIA/MI6 false flag operations like the (first) cold war era Operation Gladio (AKA Strategy of Tension) and the Pentagon’s Joint Chiefs’ planned false flag plot to discredit Castro, Operation Northwoods, are ancient history occurring way back in far off mists of time and therefore have no relevance for events occurring in Europe or the rest of the world today, there are others who believe Operation Gladio has never really gone away, just morphed into Gladio-B and for now moved its field of action where it was needed most, into Eurasia.

    Excerpt from an interview by podcast host James Corbett with ex-FBI Translator, now whistleblower Sibel Edmonds:

    An Introduction to “Gladio B”

    0:38 James: ……. But it is a bit overwhelming. It’s almost intimidating, because the topic we’re talking about is so large, so vast, involves so many characters that a lot of the audience probably won’t be familiar with, that it’s a bit daunting to know where to even begin with this. So I guess we should explain that we’re picking up from a conversation that I had with Tom Secker a week or two ago on the Corbett Report talking about Gladio and the history of Operation Gladio, the NATO stay-behind operation. So people who want more on the details of Gladio itself and its history as a historical entity in Europe might want to check out that conversation.

    But today we’re going to be picking up from that to talk about specifically how Gladio unfolded and morphed into what it currently is in Turkey and how it’s operating — well, how it’s basically morphed into a different type of operation but is using a lot of the same strategies and methods to continue, well, moving into different areas such as false-flag terrorism in the Islamic terrorism context, and also drug-running. It’s, again, a huge subject to tackle. So perhaps we should start by talking about the way that the NATO stay-behind Gladio operation was transported to Turkey, and they way that it originally started there, as a ultranationalist — or a way to puppeteer the ultranationalists in their terrorist movement.

    2:00 Sibel: Sure. One slight correction: and that is, the field of operation for Gladio, well, is pretty much global, with a large concentration — main concentration in the last… I would say… 16… 15, 16 years — Central Asia, Caucasus, and… and the Balkans. And it started with the Balkans. So the field of operation actually has nothing to do with Turkey itself. There is really nothing, because Turkey is where the powers — that being NATO, US, United Kingdom — where they want, these countries want, to be. That’s for Turkey.

    So the fields of operation are basically Central Asia — the former Soviet bloc space, basically. And the operations control centers… of course, the main one, the top layer being in the United States, with major arteries connecting it to United Kingdom;to Britain. And you have Belgium, and then you have Turkey. So — being in, maybe, the primary; then the secondary; and then the third layer being in Turkey via Turkish actors there both military — not nearly as much any longer — but also by very large… what they refer to as the “Islamic factions,” several different Islamic factions.

    https://www.corbettreport.com/an-introduction-to-gladio-b/

    So my point to Craig is that he should be aware that taking on NATO by promoting Scottish independence and a Scottish foreign policy independent of Washington/London (which also includes a withdrawal of Scotland from NATO) could well be met by an opposition using “less than honourable” means should they fear their NATO applecart was about to be upset. Although, I assume he must know that to some extent already.

    Should Craig have a noticeable influence as a politician and his message start to resonate with the Scots, no one should be overly surprised if radical “Scottish Nationalist” and “Craig Murray supporters” (promptly identified as such by government agencies and the state’s propaganda arm – the media’s talking heads) start engaging in acts of hooliganism or outright terrorism, for example. Or perhaps Scotland and/or the UK could suddenly undergo some terrorist attacks by fanatical “Islamic militants” accompanied by messages from the media that it all only goes to show the necessity of Scotland being an active partner in a strong NATO alliance to protect itself in the future from these wayward terrorists.

    That’s the beauty of false flag terror for its practitioners – it becomes so easy to terrify a population into obedience and conformity and into giving up accustomed rights and civil liberties when that same populations remains largely unaware that their own governments, military and security services have not shirked from staging terror attacks (or manipulating patsies into carrying out terror attacks) in order to shape public opinion in a desired direction.

    “Those who do not know history are bound to repeat it.”

  • lysias

    As Kugel and Bahar have shown, using documents that became available after the fall of Communism, the Reichstag Fire was a false flag event.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Historians concur that the Reichstag fire was indeed set by an individual named Van De Lubbe (not sure if I got the spelling right).

    The fact that the Reichstag fire may have occurred at a convenient time for the NDSAP is neither here or there and should certainly not be used as “proof” of a false flag theory.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Herbie

    “Yet, that’s precisely what Gen Breedlove is accusing Russia and Syria of doing, all faithfully reported in the good ole BBC”
    _____________________

    The good General’s theory that the Russians are using the refugee crisis to destabilise the EU/Europe is as silly as our Transatlantic Friend’s musings that the US is doing likewise.

    The US has its fair share of conspiracy theorists, it seems. 🙂

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