Stephen Crabb’s Alf Garnett Credentials 97

New Work and Pensions Secretary Stephen Crabb is being bigged up by the corporate media – including the Mail, Guardian, Times and Telegraph – as a future Tory leader because, we are told, he is in touch with working class culture. That is true only if you identify working class culture with Alf Garnett.

Crabb is in fact an extreme religious nutter and an anti-gay bigot who has consistently voted against gay marriage and against gay adoption. That is hardly surprising because Crabb entered politics as an intern provided by a fringe evangelical group called CARE – Christian Action Research Education. Despite ghosting around the extreme fringes of British religious life, CARE manages to exercise an entirely disproportionate influence on British politics by providing shiny eyed fanatics free to MPs as interns. Crabb was one such intern, and after becoming an MP himself took CARE interns into his office.

In 2010 CARE organised a London conference called “Sex and the City: Redeeming Sex Today” which focused on the need to “cure” homosexuality. Warning this links to offensive material. Keynote speaker was a religious quack named Joseph Nicolosi. I shall let his own website speak for him.

Crabb’s appointment is a wake-up call to anyone who believes that the kind of influence the religious right exercises in the United States cannot be echoed here. Following Duncan Smith’s admission that the British government supports only sectional interest, the emergence of a figure like Crabb from the nutty evangelical fringes is a major worry.

I did of course last month provide photograph evidence that some evangelical Christians may be having subliminal thoughts about sexuality 🙂


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97 thoughts on “Stephen Crabb’s Alf Garnett Credentials

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  • MerkinScot

    Is it true that he bought a house for >70k, had it done up by the taxpayers and then sold it for nearly 240k?
    Thatz my kinda politician. He’s all in it together as long as I pay for it.

  • fedup

    Until such a time that Bishops and the head of the Church of England are appointed by the monarch, the right wing operatives masquerading as the religious fundamentalists will be focusing on the tertiary and fringe issues such as gays and endeavour to find a cure for such an “affliction”. If not gays then some other minor cause or engage in religious hatred of the Muslims.

    All the while the poor, hungry, destitute, disabled and homeless taking no priority or being paid no attention to. What would Jesus do if he came back and walked into a church?

    Meanwhile back at the ranch post the resignation of IDS the current bunch of carpet baggers bent on following their policies of rob the poor to pay the rich, as imported from that paragon of “democracy” (I should cocoa too) the US. This specimen suits the bill pretty much, as he is crazy enough to be busy with gays and other sinners to pay any attention to the treasury’s necon nutters and effectively rail road in the policies that IDS baulked at and resigned over.

    This bunch of right wing operatives are busy pushing the agenda that the banksters have faxed to them as per the letter come hell of high water.

    To say that the current developments are disturbing is an understatement.

  • Tony_0pmoc


    The Word ARSE doesn’t mean anything in the USA – they are all into ARISE – just waiting for Jesus to come back and save them – take them directly to heaven – and they are so crazy they will nuke the entire world (especially Hillary-nuke-us-already)

    yes I do know the source…I am sure I posted it before…

    meanwhile – I do apologise – it is a crap photo – this turtle nearly killed me in 2005 – in completely different circumstances,,,

    it is is just a clip from the underwater video – and in 2005 it wasn’t HD

    I had been snorkelling underwater following the life of this turtle – until my 60 minute tape ran out…

    I finally surfaced and had a look around…and thought… oh shit…

    I could see 3 islands in the distance….

    which one have I come from??? as the Indian Ocean tidal forces swept me away…

    so I thought well there is no point in swimming with the tide…the ocean is very big…

    I put my head down and flipped for my life against the tide…

    and when I finally got back – they said where tf have you been…??

    I said don’t ask…

    It was a bit like when I was learning to fly


    • Alcyone: MODS, can we get this ^ senile old arse to take his (s)crap-book recollections somewhere...


      Thank you!

      • Mike

        Tony Opmocs comments are better than a lot of the dribble on here.I like the sound of Steven Crabb, and I’m all for his stand against Homosexual marriage which erodes the value of traditional marriage even further, to the detriment of any children, and all of us who want to live in a stable society. But on the other hand allows the adoption of children to Homosexual couples to confuse things even further. Otherwise I don’t care and it’s none of my business what Homosexuals get up to.

        The Homosexual marriage bill was deliberately foisted on the public at the same time as the secret courts bill (whatever it was called) to divert attention from the passing of the secret courts bill.

        As far as I’m concerned its all part of the deliberate destruction of our society by social Marxism, aided by the 80% of “our” bought and paid for Tory governing politicians and I don’t know how many Labour and Ukip politicians whose main loyalties lie with a foreign power.

        • glenn_uk

          You’re a hoot, Mike. Cameron/Blair/Brown/Major/Thatcher were all part of a secret Marxist policy? Clearly, you’re having a laugh.

          Why does gay marriage threaten your own – reckon you’re tempted to “step out” and “bat for the other side” now it’s legal, eh?

          If you’re really concerned about marriage threats, I trust you’re campaigning against divorce. That breaks up marriages quite a lot, you know.

          • Mike

            So you don’t think flooding our country with aliens isn’t the deliberate policy of social Marxists? I certainly don’t think it’s funny and I’m quite sure Blair, Brown and now Cameron, owe their loyalty more to the lobby groups than they do to the British electorate.
            Just check out how they’ve emasculated our great hope Jeremy Corbyn,


            Yes, stable marriage and morals are important for a stable society, remember what happened to the Romans?

        • fedup

          deliberate destruction of our society by social Marxism, aided by the 80% of “our” bought and paid for Tory

          That is a novel assessment of the nearly ultra right wing Tory party to be a secret Marxist cases!!!!
          Not knowing the elbow from somewhere else jumps into mind, although the sick, disabled and the hungry and destitute don’t get a look in again in the long rant!

        • Ishmael

          Mike, I wonder what your underspending of actual history is, esp regarding ‘traditional’ marriage and family.

          I hate to plug this book again (i’m not affiliated) but try dept the first 5000 years. This rosy self legitimizing view is on very shaky ground indeed, and that has nothing to do with gays.

          • Mike

            Ishmael. I know Kids need a Dad. A proper Dad who really loves them and hopes for the best for them, and sets an example for them Nothing else really works.
            Having Homosexual Dads and Mothers may be better than being an orphan, but it’s not the same thing as having a Real Father and Mother. I’ve observed this so many times, no one can give a child the love, security and confidence that a natural parent Can.The Kids just don’t grow up the same.

            Remember the riots in east London! To try and undermine this basis of civilized life and the disorder it creates, is the work of Social Marxism. The 80% bought and paid for Tory Politicians don’t have a clue or give a stuff about any of this, they only care about their own selfish ends.

        • Chris Jones

          Mike,I agree, the attack on the family, Christian values and the extreme political correctness agenda is cultural mairxism of the Frankfurt school in effect today – this is simply too much for many pseudo liberals to comprehend. The tory party and labour both practice different forms of cultural marxism on social issues and both have moved very rightwards on economic issues. A previous commentator put it very well on a previous post-apologies poster, I can’t remember your name but below is the post:

          “The mainstream political spectrum as it relates to economic issues has certainly moved sharply rightwards since the mid 70s- however it has been compensated by a marked shift leftwards on ‘social’ issues.

          Forty years ago a right wing Tory minister defending the removal of a magistrate for voicing concerns about adoptions by same sex couples would have been the stuff of April Fool Jokes-

          I draw two inferences from this phenomenon-
          1. The left/right paradigm is increasingly irrelevant as a political identifier
          2. The 1%’ers at the top of the pile don’t feel threatened in any way by identity politics, ‘political correctness’ or ‘minority rights’- all ostensibly ‘left’ causes, as these causes have flourished in tandem with rising inequality, globalisation, the bitter fruits of the widespread adoption of neo liberal economic thinking.

          Some far sighted people (or ‘conspiracy theorists’ if you prefer), over two decades ago, spotted this linkage, and wondered out loud about the extent to which these ‘left’ causes were being promoted by elite intrests, to the exclusion of more traditional ‘old left’ concerns-

  • glenn_uk

    Very interesting, not to say, extremely worrying. I thought it bad enough to hear the BBC laud Crabb as a “Christian”, and pondered for a moment of how this supposed servant of Christ could find himself in the cabinet of the most far-right administration in generation, with a mandate to stick it to the disadvantaged, sick and poor as only the most un-Christlike person would be able. Has Crabb’s personal Bible got the Sermon on the Mount in it, for instance?

    Cameron launched a counter-attack on behalf of Christianity in this country a few years back, which was a bit odd, because it wasn’t clear who he was counter-attacking against, or why his sudden and rather forceful intervention was required. Christ said nothing about homosexuality, incidentally, even though he did give severe admonishments against judging others, hating, being mean and having a love of money, and advising much which would warm the hearts of any true socialist.

    If people need spiritual or religious advice, they can surely obtain it from their spiritual leaders. How can anyone be so arrogant, that they feel they need to get into government to promote their own extreme versions of religion (on behalf of the creator of the entire Universe don’t forget – no sense of grandiosity there!), when hardly anyone in the country even bothers going to church anymore?

    Final comment… Christians are always obsessed about sex. The more fervent their Christianity, the more obsessed they are. That’s why they think about sex all the time. The more the rant and rave about gay sex, the more they’re thinking about that all the time. Personally, I hardly think about gay sex at all. Yet it occupies every waking moment of freaks like this Crabb. I wonder why that might be?

    • Chris Jones

      “Christ said nothing about homosexuality, incidentally, even though he did give severe admonishments against judging others, hating, being mean”

      Well exactly, perhaps you should try it yourself then? Isn’t your whole rant judging Crabb for beliefs he’s perfcectly entitled to have?

      • glenn_uk

        Chris, did I ever profess – even in the slightest degree – to be a Christian?

        To save you time, the answer is no. I am therefore entitled to judge Crabb by his own loudly pronounced standards. I’m surprised you needed that spelt out for you.

        • Chris Jones

          Seems you’re happy to quotes from Jesus Christ when it suits your argument but denounce them as not applying to you when not convenient…

          • glenn_uk

            I’m happy to quote someone’s professed philosophy to them, when they are in extreme violation of it, but think it’s just fine to ram it down the throats of everyone else – yes.

  • Chris Jones

    “Crabb is in fact an extreme religious nutter and an anti-gay bigot who has consistently voted against gay marriage and against gay adoption”

    Err, isn’t this a bigoted statement in itself? This is showing intolerance towards a man based on his religious beliefs. A healthy free society promoting free speech and free thought allows people to not support gay marriage or gay adoption without being attacked as nutters and bigots. Don’t let those zionist trolls instill narrow blinkered thinking in you mr writer

    • glenn_uk

      I love this sort of BS. Calling out some religious whack-job on their hate-filled bigotry is denounced as denying them their religious freedom – priceless!

      • Chris Jones

        Let me ask a simple general question then if I may – do you believe that there should be tolerance for religious beliefs and non beliefs in general, which includes the right to aethism of course? I don’t know what Crabb’s personal beliefs are but being Christian does not make someone a whack-job or a hate filled bigot -have you any evidence to back up these claims regarding Crabb? I’d like to know as he is amn MP for people I know and they should know if he’s either of those things..

        • glenn_uk

          Evidence regarding Crabb? Yes – his professed hatred of gays, and his wish to curtail their human rights under the law.

          I’m tolerant of anyone’s religious belief, to answer your first question, as long as that belief is confined to activity regarding themselves – when it comes to imposing restrictions. On the other hand, if someone said the creator of the Universe wants you dead because of the way you are born (and would be quite happy to kill you because of it), I believe a line has definitely been crossed.

          You are not usually this silly, Chris.

          • Chris Jones

            Voting for or against gay marriage and gay adoption is his democratic right as a person and voting in parliament his duty and right as an MP and minister – that does mean he has hatred of anyone or is a whack job or bigot. I gather that his ‘hatred of gays’ is only professed? I think assuming this just because he might have Christian beliefs and does not support specific laws is rather silly.

  • Born Optimist

    S’funny, isn’t it, how extremists demonstrating their authoritarian credentials via the religion of peace and love more often than not decide to include a sword in their advertising/logos/posters etc? Could say much more, but the illustration says it all. Take out the sword depicting the letter I and what do you have? God’s ARSE

  • bevin

    This exposes yet another rift in the disintegrating Tory alliance.
    It seems to matter greatly to some commenters that IDS’s resignation be ignored because his political record is so bad. But that is just why it should not be ignored: even IDS refuses publicly to condone the latest round of cruelties. Even him.

    It is sincerely to be hoped that his move is intended to derail Osborne and other Uber-Thatcherites in their leadership bids. The move he is making is not unlike the one that led to Thatcher’s resignation or indeed to Thatcher’s coup against Heath.
    This is the way things work in the Tory party. And one thing is certain: he will not have made this move without believing that he had a very good chance of pulling it off.
    By which I mean not winning the leadership himself but playing a big part in making the King when, as is likely, the (never to be mentioned in this blog) June event takes place.

    Crabb, of course, is an example of the sort of character- from Central Casting in the Southern Baptist Conference- who embarasses even the brass necked cynics who run the Tory party. Cameron is obviously a bit thick.

    Tory politics, like Republican politics in the States, is becoming extremely interesting. 2016 is shaping up to be not only the Centennial of the Easter Rising but the beginning of the end for neo-liberalism, as it becomes clear that there is nothing more to it than greed, larceny and lies.
    The only thing that stands between Corbyn and government are the Blairite scoundrels in the PLP who see their job as one of ‘running interference’ for sworn enemies of the poor like Mr Crabb. Over to you Frank Field, Alan Johnson and all.

  • glenn_uk

    Chris Jones at 01:45 : It appears you didn’t actually bother to read the original article at all. It looks like you have a knee-jerk reaction to any suspected criticism of Christianity, and think denying gays human rights is simply a matter of personal choice, a religious belief indeed, which ought to be respected.

    Fair enough – you have no respect for human rights, and whatever some particular religion thinks is good enough for everyone else should stand. As long as it’s _your_ religion doing the imposing, of course. But I’m taking a wild guess that imposing Sharia law on everyone in the country wouldn’t exactly thrill you. Perhaps you could explain why not.

    Reminds me of that old saying, that religion is a most ideal doctrine which should be imposed upon one’s neighbour. I do appreciate your contribution to this understanding.


    By the way – what do you personally think of gays, Chris? Do you think about gay sex a lot of the time? Just askin’ 😉

    • Chris Jones

      All the time glenn, just all the time. Right now I’m thinking of a hot tub with Philip Schofield, Ian Botham and Ainsely Harriot – just imagine the fun!

      What I’m defending is a fundamental human right – freedom of speech and freedom of thought. Without that we’re all in big poop. Human rights as we know it today is highly subjective as I’m sure you’d appreciate – for example a child could demand that it is his or her human right to have a a man and a woman as adopters- would you rather send the child away to a brave new world camp to be taught ‘how to think correctly’?

      Personally I think a child needs the balance of a father and a mother and, after all is said and done, the Christian definition of marriage is the union between man and woman-if that’s not to your taste, start a new religion that allows for all of this and anything else that tickles your fancy. A free society and freedom of speech allows, no, insists for this to be possible. Even little ‘whack job’ Crabb might even support it..

  • Chris Jones

    Crabb may be a yes man and an useful tory pawn but he is allowed his beliefs and opinions, religious and otherwise, without being attacked for them and accused of extreme things without anything to back it up

    “If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.” George Washington

      • Phil the ex frog

        Yes jolly good wicket old chap. That’s what for. Not that I dislike the gays. Some of my best friends are god defying, bum stabbing, child beating, unnatural buggers.

    • Ishmael

      Chris. How are Criags opinions hindering his freedom of speech.

      Your really saying shut up aren’t you. ?

      • Chris Jones

        Ishmael. Craig is displaying what many would term liberal bigotry. He is accusing Crabb of being an ‘extreme religious nutter and an anti-gay bigot’ simply for the fact that he has used his democratic and natural right to vote against gay marriage and against gay adoption. Nowhere can I see that Crabb has said that being gay is wrong, should be banned or made illegal. The narrative to this is that he isn’t allowed his own beliefs and opinions, religious and otherwise, and he better start thinking like he is told he should think. This is akin to the anti semitic hysteria where anyone who disagrees with zionist policy or actions are labelled anti semitic or jew haters – the parallels are blatant. I’m sure I don’t need to tell that you how dangerous this kind of politically correct lynch mob is in a free a free society

    • Simon C

      Chris Jones, are you for real? You are conflating the right for freedom of speech with the right to be a homophobe. Have all the free speech you want but don’t try to tell others that who they stick their penis into in the privacy of their own bedroom has anything to do with anything at all. Also, as a lapsed christian my memorys of christ’s beliefs are that he was all about tolerance, love and acceptance. His idea of free speech would probably not be giving you the freedom to spout on about who you think should be allowed to marry whom. That is tyranny, not free speech.

      • Chris Jones

        Are you for real? He is an MP and a minister – he has used his democratic and natural right to vote against gay marriage and against gay adoption. Nowhere can I see that Crabb has said that being gay is wrong, should be banned or made illegal. You’re conflating an opinion and a democratic right with homophobia and hate speech. Would you rather that Crabb is sent away to a programming camp until he comes back with ‘the correct attitude’? As explained above this is akin to the anti semitic hysteria where anyone who disagrees with zionist policy or actions are labelled anti semitic or jew haters

  • Ishmael

    So we can have open season on Muslims and Islam, but bigots surreptitiously denying others freedoms, as they always do just spreading there hatred of whatever generalised grope. We must leave them alone. .

    Screw that. Screw that for anyone to a degree, let alone prospective ‘representatives’ …

    A goods head’s up. I suspects many will die bigots and there is little to be done, isolated individuals who don’t want to know, and have the power to control there environment so they never have to get to know/respect any different kinds of people.

  • glenn_uk

    The really silly thing about the anti-gay bigots^W commentators here, is that being gay is STILL – in 2016 – considered by them to be a choice. Notwithstanding the fact that nobody would want to subject themselves to the various dangers, slurs and hatred of closet gays, I mean homophobes. Never mind the fact that no straight person made that conscious decision to be straight. No – it’s a “choice”.

    It might be a “choice” that Chris Jones et al could make, personally, I’m not able to fancy another man. Then again, perhaps I simply haven’t met the right one yet 🙂

    • Alcyone: The point about choice is a very important one

      The old adage: “Live and let live”, takes on ever-greater significance in a variety of contexts, given the range of conflicts in our ‘Modern’ Type Zero Global Civilisation.

      Is it really any more complicated than that?

    • Chris Jones

      This is very silly. What you’re displaying is liberal bigotry and hysterical intolerance towards a man being allowed to exersise his personal right to a democratic vote and an opinion – opinions to do with the religious institution of marriage and the family which have,like it or not, been such an important part of Christianity. That doesn’t make Christianity hateful or intolerant, it’s just the general rules of the club. If you don’t like the club start your own club and stop trying to indimdate and bully the beliefs of others with your own. Want to have an official union with a member of the same sex? You can-get on with it. Live and let live indeed. I haven’t seen any slurs, hatred or calls to ban gay people anywhere here or by Crabb but I have seen plenty of slurs against him and those that support his right to his beliefs and freedom of speech. Perhaps your energy would be better directed at fighting the extremist anti gay intolerance and hatred to be found in Islamic countries instead? Or would that be not be quite so easy and a bit more challenging?

      • glenn_uk

        Are you being deliberately obstinate? This Crabb freak wants to take away human rights from certain groups of people, because he thinks his imaginary friend doesn’t approve. Now you – somehow – pretend that curbing his ability to persecute and exercise bigotry is in itself a discriminatory act. If you can’t see how stupid a position that is, then you’re either trying to deceive, or you’re incapable of reason.

        As for “go and fight gay intolerance in Islamic countries instead”, WTF should I visit some other country to see their deluded religious nutcases, when I have bigots right here at home, in my own country’s government, who are every bit as bad?

  • Cairnallochy

    I read at the weekend that Ruth Davidson regards Mr Crabb as a “soulmate”. In the light of what I have read here and elsewhere about Mr Crabb’s views, I wonder if the sentiment is reciprocated.

  • Stuart Graham

    Choose in haste – repent at leisure. To pick a religious fruit cake with a dubious sense of right and wrong (making £200k on a ‘second home’ which was paid for by the taxpayers of the UK) is not a wise decision. That this man is tipped as a future leader of the Tory party shows how rightwing and unquestioning the mainstream media have become.

  • Iain Orr

    Craig – Thanks for that excellent warning CV. It’s only when IDS has gone that you realise just how many really rotten apples there are in David Cameron’s barrel. IDS is bitter, but he’s nowhere near as toxic as this sour Crabb apple.

    • Ishmael

      On the IDS issue, I just wanted to say something that struck me.

      Should we have anyone who has been military ‘trained’ in government? A violence focused organization that systematically, deliberately, removes natural human feeling and impulses.

      Isn’t governments nature a racket anyway…….No need to answer, just a thought.

      • Ba\'al Zevul

        Of course we shouldn’t. Government should be exclusively composed of people like you. It’s certainly no place for people who understand discipline. Or people who are sent to shitty places to get shot at because governments ignore their advice and make crap decisions. Please feel free to outline more completely your concept of representative democracy. Who else do we need to exclude?
        [bad word]

        • Ishmael

          Well brainwashing certainly seems an issue to me. “discipline”? that’s twisted PR and you know it.

          I know what actual training entails. Nothing democratic about it. Or human. I don’t care if people are like me, I do care if they’ve been physiologically manipulated by a violent totalitarian agency intent on nothing but it’s own perpetuation.

          I think we all should care about that, for democracy.

        • Ishmael

          Historical evidence suggests this whole society, money system etc, is built around supporting the army and affiliated elite institutions,

          I’v no doubt to them that’s democracy. But it’s largely Usury.

  • Sixer

    We do need a rethink of the welfare blueprint, just not in the way these throwbacks think we do. I am inclined to credit your earlier post, Craig, in which you suggested that IDS genuinely believed his crusade to make the poor change to fit the economy rather than change the economy to deal with poverty was a moral and righteous one.

    But it’s last century thinking. The structure of the family has changed. You can’t go back to a narrative of fallen women and curable gays and succeed. You will eventually meet reality. Everyone outside the political, media and economists bubble understands this. You can’t create a new benefits system that will be fit for the country for the next fifty years that centres itself on a holy grail of number of hours work precisely at the point even minimum wage work is beginning to disappear and is based on the definition of a family that no longer exists.

    You can’t transform welfare and save money at the same time. You can’t spend £16 billion on IT for an undeliverable system of Universal Credit because it wipes out your savings. You can’t cut social care and save money because the bill transfers to the health budget. You can’t cut housing benefit and save money because insecure housing means the money saved goes on other services, including education premiums for kids who have been to four different primary schools, homeless interventions, stress-based health costs and all the rest of it.

    You can’t even cut Child Benefit for the better off because you suddenly realise Child Benefit is how you track and plan for health and education services and how you issue National Insurance numbers, so all the savings you made are spent on a campaign to get invisible children registered by asking their parents to make a non-claiming registration. You’ve not saved any money: you’ve just fucked up your planning. (Yes, this one is actually happening.)

    We have statutory equality obligations, both domestic and European. Your cuts meet the reality of those. You lose not only expensive tribunals on individual claims, but the courts declare some of your cuts illegal under equality legislation and the UN institutes not one, but two, investigations into your country on human rights grounds.

    And after all those evangelical cuts, you HAVEN’T SAVED ANY MONEY.

    Poverty is expensive. And it is not a solution to a financial crisis caused in the financial sector.

    What we need is to join up social policy and welfare policy in a way that fits the reality of the lives people live in this country. We need a social OBR that operates in conjunction with the financial OBR so that we can avoid all these transfers of costs from welfare to other budgets (by valuing unpaid caring labour, voluntary work, for example, by the money they save).

    It’s possible to save money on welfare without transferring the bill to other budgets. But not by pretending we are still living in Victorian times.

      • Ishmael

        Don’t be mean Spencer, what’s he ever done to you?

        Sigh, sry Mr whiting, some people show there inadequacy shamelessly.

        “socialist”, “liberals” don’t believe a word. This ain’t no commune.

          • Ishmael

            I wasn’t being very serous, but it was critical…. Is there no time for the finer things in life. Initial greeting’s, et cetera.

            Whatever, no biggie.

    • Ba\'al Zevul

      Heh. Briefly glancing at yours, I am delighted that I do not have to visit any of your seven websites to wind you up.

      • glenn_uk

        More to the point, why would anyone bother to read them?

        There are not “seven websites” there anyway, no more than there are “hundreds of websites” here at CM’s – just seven separate sections. None of which are worth looking at.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    I dislike these days all people who are just hung up on sex, especially the evangelicals, when there are so many more important issues.

    People who are homophobic or obsessed with other sexual experience not the apparent norm are the pits.

    To be so concerned about gays. lesbians et al. seems like a reverse kind of Malthusianism where people who avoid the preventive challenges of overpopulation by not engaging generally in sex with the other sex are particularly condemned for not risking it.

    And I feel the same way about those who oppose sensible abortions.

    Just shows how devoid of serious thoughts we are when it comes to real solutions of really important problems.

  • Chris Rogers

    What’s happened to all the new contributors who appeared yesterday, only to vanish into the ether today?

    Perhaps its because CM is critical of radical Christianity today, rather than hatred espoused by Zionists who write for The Guardian and other MSM outlets.

    What next I wonder, perhaps Corbyn is as homophobic as he is anti-Zionist.

    Does make one think though given they were like a plague of locust here and now they are gone.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Now the LGBT people at the Hadron Collider CERN have been insulted by having group photographs with others defaced by Biblical quotes, and calling them ‘pigs’.

    If it were up to me, i would shut down the whole fucking place.

    • Chris Rogers


      The worse thing is in my opinion is the fact that more than 15 posters entered the boards yesterday to moan about alleged anti-semitism and anti-Israeli comments on this site, only to disappear when the subject matter is about civil rights towards those who sexual behaviour is not the norm – which in all reality is no business of mine or anyone else’s for that matter unless it involves ‘rape’ or sex with minors. Live and let live being a good motto in this instance.

      This highlights clearly that the Zionists only care for fellow travellers and could not give a toss about anyone else, and then they claim the UK Left and The Labour Party is riddled with anti-semites – talk about hypocrisy.

      I have little idea who Crabb is, part from being a useless Secretary of State for Wales, one, who as with his predecessors has failed to negotiate meaningful further devolutionary powers to the Welsh Assembly. That he’s a professed homophobe as well, just makes him more unacceptable in my eyes as Ministerial material, never mind an MP!

  • JesusChrist

    Chris Jines @ 13.35: ‘What you’re displaying is liberal bigotry and hysterical intolerance towards a man being allowed to exersise his personal right to a democratic vote and an opinion’.

    Defending the rights of a group of individuals that have been persecuted for centuries now constitutes bigotry? You bigoted idiot.

    You’re very confused about what constitutes a democratic right, he has a right to a personal opinion and no one is denying that, but he does not have any right, especially a so called democratic right, whatsoever, to cast a vote to impinge upon anothers rights. He’s not exercising his personal rights at all, he’s perverting democracy by imposing his own tyrannical beliefs defined by some bronze age mythology.

    It should never have required a vote in the first place because it should never have been illegal.

    • glenn_uk

      He is a bigoted idiot, and also thoroughly hypocritical and dishonest. All of these Christianists who invoke their special relationship with their invisible friend, in order to indulge in gay-bashing, are also guilty of same.

      They love quoting Leviticus (if they’ve read the Bible at all), because Christ said nothing against gays. But the passage from Leviticus also condemns eating shellfish, wearing clothes of the same cloth, working on the Sabbath, urges “witches” to be put to death and so on – at some length. Your children starting to get sassy? Kill them!

      There is no honesty or consistency. It’s just a selected bit of some mumblings of long dead fearful and hate-filled old men, from thousands of years ago, who didn’t understand why it got dark at night, and would be baffled at the mechanics of a wheelbarrow.

      It’s simply an excuse to hate the other. And more often than not, it’s a part of themselves that they hate and fear.

      Take a look at this:

    • Chris Jones

      @J’esus Christ’ and @glenn_uk – Ironic how it is so called progressive liberals who are keen to throw insults and ad hominem attacks on people whose opinions they disagree with. You do realise that being intolerant of the views of others makes you the bigot ? I’m merely defending Crabb’s right to his own views, even if I don’t agree with him.

      I’m at least glad that you agree that he has a right to have a personal opinion and his freedom of speech. That is what has to be defended above all.

      The real worrying thing is that this was voted on in parliament at all. We’re supposed to live in a secular country and the matter of a Christian gay marriage should have been a matter for the Church and the church only – it seems that the state was insistent that they know best and it also seems likely that the gay marriage was a convenient side show whilst the secret courts act went on in the shadows.

      However,like all the other MP’s, Crabb was obliged to vote. I’m not sure if you’re aware how voting works generally but a vote usually means that a person has a choice to express his views one way or another. Perhaps this is a concept alien to you and you’d rather everyone agreed with you. Anyone not would be a bigot and an idiot of course. Apparently defending the freedom of speech also makes one a fanatical bible reading evangelical Christian, hypocritical , dihonest gay basher.

      Crabb wasn’t even calling for gay sex to be re-criminalised and his voting against was a mouse tear in the sea of mob rule ‘progressives’ anyhow. The vote was passed by the state, meaning that theocracy can be used when it suits the ultra progressive agenda. But no mention of that I notice – only the attacking of an MP who dared have his own views -probably against the state interfering in religious matters.

      I’m all for human rights. If only they could be consistent and equal. Would you support the human right of a child or its natural parents to be be able to choose between a same sex and a heterosexual couple for adoption example?

  • Lord Palmerston

    > religious nutter … bigot … extreme …

    When said about Muslims: you are a hate-filled Islamophobic

    When said about white Christians: you are a compassionate and
    enlightened commentator.

    • glenn_uk

      Just to put the record straight, I personally have no more liking for the religious nutters, extremists and bigoted freaks who want to run Afghanistan or Iran like it’s the 13th century either. Happy?

  • Old Mark

    This is one of Craig’s more hysterical posts, in particular this bit-

    CARE manages to exercise an entirely disproportionate influence on British politics by providing shiny eyed fanatics free to MPs as interns.

    CARE may indeed ASPIRE to have a disproportionate influence on British politics with its intern policy,but I’d never heard of them until now. Perhaps Craig could enumerate how many other MPs, apart from Crabb, they have in their clutches ?

    Crabb has denied he supports the ‘gay cure’ quack Craig mentions; yes, he’s against gay marriage and gay adoption,but that is simply par for the course for evangelical Christians (eg Tim Farron) and traditionalist Catholics (eg Ruth Kelly). There is no evidence to show that either of these factions wields a disproportionate influence in UK politics today- we aren’t like the US, where church attendance figures are much higher, and thus the influence of Christian pressure groups is indeed a major factor in national political life.

    Crabb’s views on gay rights certainly fall short of the metropolitan ideal, and his evangelical Christianity is certainly a contributory factor to his possession of those ‘Alf Garnett’ tendancies Craig dreads. AFAIK Crabb isn’t calling for gay sex to be re-criminalised, which really would mark him out as an embittered reactionary, about whose political ascendancy we should all be worried.

    Finally I wouldn’t be surprised if most 40 something South Walian working class males share to some extent his unprogressive views on gay adoption and marriage- even if they nowadays (unlike Crabb) only go to chapel for weddings and funerals. Perhaps Chris Rogers, who knows this demographic much better than most, could tell us whether metrosexual attitudes to gays are now the norm among the middle aged in Crabb’s neck of the woods ?

    • Chris Rogers

      Hi Old Mark,

      Whilst we Valley folk are certainly not as progressive as those in large cities, the fact remains that in working mens clubs and social clubs we do have folk who are not heterosexual and they are quite open about it. Some may be offended, but the reality is most don’t believe a persons sexuality is anything to do with them, it is a private issue and as long as people don’t exploit it it is a low key issue – we have the odd bad apples though, but this is not the norm anymore.

      I cannot talk for country folk or those in more isolated town and villages, but the fact is about 10% are Gay and i know a few families who’s kids are into the same sex, which keeps down the birth rate in my humble opinion so can’t be all bad as they say.

      As for adoption and same sex marriage, well its the same for all if you ask me and again I don’t see what ones sexual orientation has to do with the matter, marriage being a piece of paper at the end of the day – and if an orphan, better to be part of a family unit than be in a home.

      Given our local Church of Wales Vicar is female I’d say we are quite progressive and I know all are welcome at the CoW local Church.

      So, I think Crabb actually seems more of a country person with conservative tastes, rather than an inhabitant of Valley communities, many of which have greater concerns than a persons sexuality, such as rampant drug abuse. And I’m not talking dope here or LSD.

      Hope that answers your question, but given I’m from a small community in Torfaen my only concerns relate to racism, which is still quite high as the last two General election result breakdowns clearly demonstrate. Again, I think fear of immigration is higher than concerns about sexuality.

  • JesusChrist

    Lord Palmerston @ 17:18
    That’s a false equivocation. Chrstians hold masses of power throughout the world and are not fearful of being attacked by some right wing goon when the walk down the street.

    Chris Rogers @ 18:31
    “Given our local Church of Wales Vicar is female I’d say we are quite progressive”.

    That’s an oxymoron, does progressive mean adherence to 2000 year old mythology. How long has taken to have a female vicar?

    I watched an episode of Question Time or some such on TV a couple of years ago, when the +equal marriage+ vote had gone through the Commons and I was quite shocked at the arrogance of the panel. One of the panellists said ‘we gave you the right to gay marriage”.

    Gave you the rights, what pomposity, it wasn’t his to give. He and all those that voted for equal marriage gave no one the right, gay people always had the right to marriage but up until that point it had been infringed upon.

    • Chris Rogers


      Well what an unusual name, however, you claim that having a female Vicar should not be progressive, and yet the fact remains not too many Parishes have female vicars and I for one could not give a rats arse what sex our Vicar is, or if they are homosexual – as long as they are not rapists or child molesters its really of no interest to me, but alas this was not the case with the General Synod, which I personally have no influence over.

      Not apart from that, it worries me not what sexual orientation anyone is, nor do I pontificate on the matter, how can as I’m an egalitarian and believe all are equal, as jesus instructs in the Bible if we are to believe it.

      Anything else Sir, or have I addressed all concerns you have raised?

  • Chris

    Although I am not a social conservative/”bigot” myself, I believe that social conservatism/”bigotry” needs to become a more prominent voice in our society in order to push back against the social justice warrior tendency. I’m not sure free speech can survive otherwise.

    In other words, “bigotry” is a necessary evil.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Outside the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital, Glasgow (formerly the Southern general Hospital), over the past few months, most evenings there is a group of women demonstrating against abortion outside the Maternity Unit , right at the entrance to the hospital. So all pregnant women patients and also visitors and staff will see them there. It is a small group and they look entirely harmless. This, though, is a new development. They have a right to expressing their views. I disagree with their views. In view of the madness that has descended upon such dynamics in the USA, however, it is a worrying development when they begin to demonstrate outside Maternity Units. It might be seen as harassment of women and staff. Gynaecologists have been targeted and murdered by anti-abortion activists in the USA.

    • glenn_uk

      This is a very good point, Suhayl. Freedom of speech is wonderful and all that, but it comes at a price at times. Promoting intolerant views can whip up hatred and extremism, for which society ends up paying a heavy price.

      Trump, for instance, starts ranting about Muslims, immigrants, Mexicans – any non-white, basically – and it’s all seen as lunacy, nothing to be taken seriously. Right up until some thugs beat up and urinate on a suspected Mexican immigrant, and tell the police they think it’s OK because Trump gave them the go-ahead.

      This is not to mention the far-right thug Bill O’Reily who – on his Fox “News” show – denounces “Tiller the killer” innumerous times. Yet, when it’s picked up by a bunch of lunatics such as the “army of god” ( ), his denies it has anything to do with him:

      There are endless examples of this sort of thing. Back to this Crabb, and his anti-gay bigotry. This gives licence, in the minds of thugs and hate-merchants, to go out in search of a bit of gay-bashing. It’s legitimised the practice as far as they’re concerned. Hell, gays have a choice – they can be “converted” to be straight, even if they were perverse enough to “choose” to be gay in the first place!

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