Crashed Egyptair Flight 450

I have had occasion before to praise Sam Kiley, Sky News security correspondent, who often seems to be fighting a one man battle against rampant Islamophobia and alarmism in the media. He has just given an extremely sensible analysis. He counselled against rushing to brand the crash as terrorism without evidence, discussing both mechanical failure and pilot suicide. He added that even if it was terrorism it was not necessarily Islamic terrorism. He quoted Anders Breivik and the fact that early reporting speculated that massacre was Islamic terrorism. Kiley even went so far as to state it was a possibility that, if it were terrorism, it could be carried out by a fascist group attempting falsely to implicate Islamic groups and stoke Islamophobia. Kiley also outlined the possibilities for various Islamic groups to be involved.

His summary was as balanced and sensible as it could be possible to make. Indeed Eamonn Holmes felt it necessary to ramp up the terrorist narrative by stating there have only ever been 68 mechanical failures on Airbus 320 aircraft. That is true, but it is a very much larger number than the number of terrorist incidents on A 320 aircraft.

I do not know what happened. I do know that it is remarkable that anybody as balanced as Sam Kiley – who four years ago stated on Sky News that Israel was perceived as “moving towards an apartheid state” – continues to be employed by the mainstream media. I frequently criticise corporate media journalists for doing a bad job. When one is doing a particularly good job I should in fairness note it.

450 thoughts on “Crashed Egyptair Flight

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  • Paula Varley

    I remember Sam Kiley’s reports on “Unreported World” a few years ago, and I think I have spotted him on sky news. I don’t see why rational balanced reporting should threaten anyone, especially in such a tragic situation as a plane crash. I am surprised, though, that no-one has hinted at Syrian or Russian involvement, given the proximity to Syria. No doubt the gloves will be off once the six o’clock news goes on air.

    Sam Kiley always struck me as thoughtful and sympathetic, qualities which journalists do not often retain for long.

  • Lord Palmerston

    > rampant Islamophobia

    Just from scientific curiosity, how many plane loads worth of people killed by Islamists would be sufficient that it’s OK to suspect the next ‘crashing’ plane might be another Islamist attack?

    Adding up the death count from Paris, Brussels and the Metrojet plane gives us 386, i.e. about 6 times as many as died in MS804. So the answer so far appears to be ‘more than six’.

    So, any suggestions for the actual number? Let’s make it easier and assume the dead are all white Christians. Do I hear a dozen? Perhaps 50 plane loads? Remember, this is for Science!

    • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

      You are a bit wacky when it comes to plane crashes as there were none in Paris and Brussels, and the Metrojet crash was done by the Israelis taking over its transponder, hardly known as Islamists, to strengthen up the Mediterranean Dialogue at Moscow;s expense.

      The Germanwings plane was similarly done in by the Frogs for Nato.

      And MI6 crashed Asiana Flight 214 and MH370 to get back at Beijing.

      So where are the islamists involved?

      • Resident Dissident

        Clearly not a man who believes that mechanical failure or human error may ever be a cause of an air crash – btw who was responsible for Nigel Farage’s and Yuri Gagarin’s crashes?

    • Dave Price

      In an effort to find something of value in your remarkably nasty little speech, I would point out that the scientific method of proceeding is to start with an open mind and methodically gather as much information as possible before, during and after the incident. As this information comes in, and evaluation and discussion take place, possible scenarios will emerge, and further evidence can be methodically sought in an attempt to reject or support a particular scenario.

      On they other hand I can’t think of any scientific person who would immediately propose one particular explanation for an incident over any other explanation, based entirely on an arbitrary number of occurrences in the past. A good name for what you have described there would be ‘bigotry’.

    • John Spencer-Davis

      I’m just wondering if anyone on here believes any plane ever crashes by accident.

    • Lord Palmerston

      Results: “a bit wacky”, “nasty” and “bigotry” – but no one seems willing to put a number on how anti-Islamophobic they are. How strange!

      So ‘more than six’ remains the limit. Perhaps time will tell how many more plane loads it takes.

      • John Spencer-Davis

        It’s “OK to suspect” it “might” be anything.

        CM is arguing that one should not jump to the conclusion that a plane crash is Islamist terror without any evidence.

        Why do you have a problem with that?

      • Dave Price

        LP, you are indeed a scratched record.

        But listen to yourself. You are asking people to ‘quantify’ their ‘anti-Islamophobia’ in ‘planeloads of dead white Christians’. I don’t think I’ve heard anything so bizarre for a long time. And yes, actually very nasty.

        If you want to have a rational conversation about Islamophobia that isn’t a good place to start.

      • Lord Palmerston

        So, a couple of late entries, a “scratched record” and a second “nasty”. Still no plane load count.

        Isn’t it odd how people who say they want a rational discussion are so upset by mention of numbers!

        • John Spencer-Davis

          It’s “OK to suspect” it “might” be anything.

          CM is arguing that one should not jump to the conclusion that a plane crash is Islamist terror without any evidence.

          Why do you have a problem with that?

  • John Spencer-Davis

    “Kiley also outlined the possibilities for various Islamic groups to be involved.” (Craig Murray)

    Neither Murray nor Kiley will look an idiot tomorrow morning even if ISIS claims the act. Unlike yourself, who does not have to wait until tomorrow morning to look an idiot.

    “smartman”, eh?

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      Shouldn’t our Transatlantic Friend have told us that?

      Oh wait! – he’s probably too busy getting ready to tell us what the UK papers are saying.

        • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

          You’re welcome, “Bevin” – just trying to conform to the orevailing ethos.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      That’s now been denied – though only by al-Ahram, as far as I can see, Fred. The type of signal wasn’t specified in the first place, but it’s just…just possible that an emergency beacon attached to a liferaft activated on impact. It could have been heard by aircraft and ships in the vicinity. See:

      ELT = 121.5 Mhz (probably, but might be UHF) emergency beacon

  • RobG

    For anyone interested in the quite extraordinary things that are happening in France, here’s a Press TV report about it…

    This Press TV piece was broadcast last weekend. Since then, last Tuesday another week long general strike began, and yesterday there were large demonstrations by the police all over France (at the Paris demo there was a counter-demo and a police car was set on fire). The police were demonstrating against a surge of ‘anti-cop hatred’ over the last two months.

    Also yesterday the the French parliament voted to extend the state of emergency again by another 2 months. The state of emergency – which effectively suspends the rule of law in France – was introduced after last November’s terror attacks and was supposed to last for 3 months. In February president Hollande extended it by another 3 months, and now the French parliament have extended it again.

    Worrying times; and don’t think you’re clear of it on the other side of the Channel: if a ‘terror attack’ happens in Britain you’ll no doubt have a similar state or emergency.

    • Jim

      Reminds of the police attempts to ‘fight back against anti-cop hatred’ by U.S. police forces in response to the Black Lives Matter movement. Pathetic creeps.

    • Habbabkuk (flush out fakes)

      That right, Rob, we need Iranian TV to tell us what’s happening in France.

      That’s if you can’t read or understand French of course….

      • RobG

        That took place at the police demonstration in Paris against ‘anti-cop hatred’ (you couldn’t make it up). Most of the violence has come from the French police, who have been very brutal during these demos, and of course thesedays it all gets captured on film. The French police are well known for their heavy handed tactics. The following is from a rally against police brutality that took place back in 2014, long before the present wave of protests, and of course the police were brutal (once again, you couldn’t make this up)…

        Considering the large number of people who are out on the streets of France, there’s been surprisingly little violence from the protesters (probably because they know what the police are like).

        • Jim

          The French police murdered hundreds of peaceful protesters in cold blood on the Streets of Paris in a notorious ‘action’ in the early ’60s which I only recently became aware of. I’ll have to google it again. It was a peaceful demo against the actions of France during the Algerian colonial war.

          • Jim

            Paris massacre 1961. Maurice Papon in charge. Up to 200+ murdered. I’m sure you’ll know about it already.

          • Lore

            Didn’t you know that Napoleon deliberately designed the broad Paris boulevards so they could easily be cleared with machine guns?

          • Becky Cohen

            @Lore: I actually heard that the reason behind the wide streets of Paris as re-designed after 1848 by Baron Hausmann under the reign of Napoleon III was at least in part to make it more difficult for would-be revolutionaries to construct barricades – although it’s true that early ‘machine guns’ such as the American Gatling Gun were beginning to be used in from the 1860s to 1870 towards the end of Napoleon IIIrd’s reign. During the 1830 and 1848 uprisings in Paris the barricade was a common tactic amongst the rebels and the intricate myriad of narrow lanes and alleys helped facilitate this. There is actually a really fascinating early photograph of one such barricade blocking one of those old narrow Parisian streets that was taken during the 1848 uprising.

          • bleb

            Sorry completely off main topic (but it is the second page)
            @Becky & Lore – Perhaps this idea has come about from Napoleon Bonaparte’s “13 Vendémiaire” 1795 action against Royalist rebels were his artillery fired grapeshot into a mob on the streets of Paris A “Whiff of Grapeshot” according to Thomas Carlyle.

            If Emile Zola is to be believed (see La Débâcle) barricades were still being used as a tactic by the Paris Communards in 1871. Again, from Zola, I have the impression the Paris boulevards were as much about corrupt property speculation (cashing in on government compensation for the property knocked down by fraudulently raising rents in advance by corruptly obtaining advance knowledge of the route)

            To be pedantic, not the American Gatling gun but the Reffye mitrailleuse (Canon à Balles) based on an earlier Belgian invention of 1851. Used by the French Army from 1866 to 1908.

      • RobG

        Phil, it’s worrying that they’ve used the state of emergency to ban a journalist from covering a demonstration.

        Some of the ‘anti-capitalists’ were also banned from the 17th May demo. These were people singled out by the authorities as troublemakers. I believe they were banned using the French equivalent of an ASBO.

        The ironic thing is, all these protests are illegal anyway under the state of emergency, but the powers that be know what will happen if they try to prevent the protests.

        • Resident Dissident

          Given the Southern railway strike today was rather more solid than that on SNCF in which only 10% of the staff joined in – might I suggest that Rob G hot foots it back to the UK, if the law and taxes permit, so that he can join in the real revolution.

          • RobG

            Resident Dissident, this one’s for you: Richard Wolff’s latest monthly economic update…


            In the first part Wolff talks about slave labour in Alabama prisons, the Greek debt crisis and the TTIP trade deal. In the second part, Wolff and two guests talk about formenting revolution. Events in France get a mention, but alas the Southern railway does not.

      • Jim

        I like the old lady in the second vid at 14mins collecting souvenirs! Totally unperturbed ?

      • Phil the ex frog

        I had wondered what was happening at 9:40. Apparently this is CTG union ‘stewards’, faces covered with sticks and helmets, fighting alongside the police.

        Anyone able to confirm this is the case?

  • Chris Rogers

    Regardless as to what caused the EgyptAir flight to crash, lets have some circumspect and actually issue our full sympathy to all those families who have lost loved ones in this horrific event – it would be nice if the media could also follow suit, rather than blowing matters out of proportion and pointing accusing fingers – far too early for that!

    A horrible tragedy for all concerned.

  • Republicofscotland

    So el-Sisi is to meet with Hollande, birds of feather I say, both met previously to agree a $1 billion arms deal.

    El-Sisi is in my opinion a Western backed puppet president, Hollande, who is trying to screw the French workers on their rights (he’ll fail miserably) has presided over two dubious events (so far) in his time as le president.

    Meanwhile the propaganda machine, the BBC World Service, stated today on many occasions that the plane that went down, was more likely to have due to terrorism than a accident or malfunction.

  • Republicofscotland

    Meanwhile we’ve had the Ebola virus pop up again, and make big pharma a massive profit, as the media played their part in frightening nations into stock piling possible cures. Interestingly the Ebola virus named after the Ebola river has been around since at least the early seventies.

    With such huge profits to be made from Ebola is it any wonder the US government wants to patent it. If they haven’t already done so.

    Staying on money making viruses, the Zika virus has also made headlines with authorities claiming the virus more than likely will hit certain EU countries sooner than later. As the scare story builds big pharma will be rubbing their cold sweaty hands together and salivating like Pavlov’s dog, in anticipation, of selling possible cures to EU nations.

    But who owns the Zika (or money virus) as it should be known, well if this is anything to go by, the Zika virus has been around for almost seventy years or so.

  • Republicofscotland

    “Rights groups critical of Bahrain’s human rights track record are questioning the decision to seat of the King of Bahrain next to UK’s Queen Elizabeth II during her 90th birthday celebrations. ”

    “During the birthday celebration held on Sunday, King Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa was seated alongside the queen, the Duke of Edinburgh, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Harry, the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall.”

    So old saddle bag face HRH, from the attached picture, doesn’t look to chuffed at her seating position. Of course her fifth cousin twiced removed (I think that’s correct) David Cameron is selling an absolute fortune in weapons to Bahrain. Weapons that are systematically used to suppress the Bahrainian people.

    Still I’m sure old Lizzie would’ve managed to get through the ordeal, and who knows what treats she could’ve received for her perseverance, god bless ya mam.

  • James

    At 03:27 am local time, ATHINAI Area Control Center tried to communicate with the flight for transfer of communication and control from ATHINAI FIR to CAIRO FIR.

    Despite the repetitive calls, the flight did not respond and thus the Air Traffic Controller called on the emergency frequency without response.

    At 03:29:40 am local time the flight signal was lost from radar, almost 7 NM within the Cairo FIR.

    (Hellenic CAA)

    Prior to the ATC call at 03.27 Local, it appears there was no indication that the aircraft was in distress (Secondary Radar). The contact was routine and was merely to communicate with the flight for transfer of communication and control from ATHINAI to CAIRO.

    Hellenic ATC monitoring the flight does not seem “concerned” prior to this routine communication. The flight therefore must have appeared “normal” to them.

    The flight was “unresponsive” to ATC call.
    The ATC tried to contact the aircraft for approx 2 minutes and 40 seconds before losing Secondary Radar contact at approx 03.29’40 Local.

    Does that sound like a bomb ?

    To me, that sounds like the crash happened because the pilot had to “call back”.
    And that makes it sound like a hijack.

  • Tom

    Good to hear of some balanced, responsible reporting – to be commended, as you say.
    What I don’t understand is how a supposedly serious newspaper like the Telegraph can have a headline like ‘terror more likely cause than mechanical failure’ when the wreckage hasn’t even been examined. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, mechanical failure and/or pilot error are more likely.

    • J Galt

      If you’ve penetrated Paris CDG security to be in a position to put a device on an aircraft which brings it down, why bother with a wee A320 with penny numbers onboard.

      Logic dictates you would go for maximum effect – a packed A380 or B747.

      So not likely to be a genuine Terrorist Attack (when are they ever!).

      That’s not to say it wasn’t brought down deliberately.

    • MJ

      But why would it make a sharp 90 degree turn left followed by a sharp 360 degree turn right before falling out of the sky: evasive action? The pilot wouldn’t even know it was coming.

        • Ba'al Zevul

          Or tongue firmly in ‘Frank’s’ cheek… I have suspected this for some time.

        • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

          Just more shit from you, James, obviously someone’s spy, most likely the Mossad’s, given your crap on the al-Hilli assassinations.

          Washington has long had an ability to stop air piracy which the Pentagon’DARPA program developed to regain control of any hijacked airliner, and fly it safely to a convenient airport.

          Now the so-called counter terrorists have become the terrorists, taking over the transponders of planes belonging to a target, and either flying them into the ground or making them do maneuvers which will cause them to break up.

          Looks increasingly like Netanyahu is behind this one too because al-Sisi wanted an Israeli coalition with Isaac Herzog’s party, and Bibi showed his disapproval by crashing the plane.

        • Resident Dissident

          James you have to realise if the Yanks can take down Air Asia planes in Indonesia from Diego Garcia as previously claimed here – it doesn’t take any leap of imagination to blame the Israelis for anything with a much shorter distance. I think I will start award annual prizes for the most lunatic posts on this forum.

        • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

          Right, but it belongs to the Pentagon, and it has made it available to other governments, especially to Israel to help promote the aims of the Mediterranean Dialogue.

          Right after 9/11, Oswald Le Winter, the deep CIA spy, wrote a book published in Portugal, which claimed that there were no hijackers and passengers, only emplty planes on 9/11, only DARPA’s system which took over the planes, and crashed them.

          While the tin-hat plot theory only caught on with disinformation spooks, when the war on terror became global, the Anglo-Americsa spooks and their allies decided to use the anti-piracy system for their own missions.

          Interesting that the DM just printed the story about the pilots and their companies being unwilling to take over transponders, the whole point of taking control of the plane out of the cockpit where the hijackers would be.

        • Republicofscotland

          Trowbrige H.Ford.

          Reading articles and even some have commented in here of the planes somewhat erratic behaviour, veering and initiating a almost 360 degree turn.

          I’m reminded of motor vehicles under the control of outside sources, how they would veer or perform erratic turns, of course, we all know now that back then “Boston Brake” manoeuvres were performed on target vehicles and there occupants.

          Would it be so difficult to transfer such tactics to areoplanes, and jam it rudder or, it would be far more catastrophic to interfere with an aeroplanes, roll, pitch and yaw.

          Jamming on up or down of anything that controls the aeroplanes stability would be disasterous.

    • bevin

      Shit! I missed a Guardian columnist giving his opinion of the ‘anti-semitism’ issue. And brilliantly too (or was that sarcasm?)

      • Jim

        That’s not very literate Bevin, it sounds as if you’re suggesting you missed it brilliantly. Well done, that must have taken some skill.
        Jones has got more sense in his little finger than a deranged ranting Pol Pot enthusiast like yourself.

        • Chris Rogers

          To be blunt Jim, in my neck of the woods Jones is very much considered a ‘total wanter’.

          As for all his whining and perceptions, lets just clarify, when 250 of his peers were dismissed from Guardian Media Group in April this year no word whatsoever was ushered by Jones or any of the other reactionary Social Justice Warriors at The Guardian. In a nutshell, actual progressives and Left-wingers don’t need Middle Class friends like Jones et. al. for the simple reason they often throw you under a bus, evidenced by the bollocks about ‘anti-semitism’ – further, Jones wants to be all things to all men, so hardly a principled individual to say the least, which is why his opinion counts for fuck all.

          • Jim

            Still getting your style tips from Mein Kampf then Chris? Not advisable I’d suggest. ‘International Jewry’?

          • Jim

            And Owen Jones is ‘middle class’? Pull the other one, it’s getting really wearing listening to your endless prolier than thou pontificating.

          • Chris Rogers


            Unlike the ‘cunt’ Jones, and establishment apologists like you, at 18 years of age I was a Union organiser for the TGWU and cut my teeth as both a Union activist and Labour Party activist before ever entering University at 24 years of age, a move facilitated by colleagues working within Trades Unions – education or not, I’m working class and proud of the fact. And unlike Jones, I fight for my community. Again, where the fuck was Jones pontificating about 250 of his peers being sacked?

            Answer, no where because he’s a big headed twat who thinks his platform offered by The Guardian makes him better than anyone else, when in reality he’s just another Establishment sycophant like you. If this were not the case, do you really think The Guardian would give him the time of day.

            Further, no one forces you to read what I post and my response to you about Jones was setting the record straight as to the fact he’s no friend to anyone.

            As for your Mein Kampf reference, given I’ve never read it, one cannot comment. As for your ‘anti-semitism’ accusations, just fuck off with your smears, or would you like one of my business partners, who happens to be Jewish set the record straight.

          • Jim

            ‘Some of my best friend are Jewish’…now where have I heard that line before? You choose your own language Chris, I would suggest that your use of highly inflammatory tropes like ‘International Jewry’ does not strengthen your case. I’ve no idea about Owen Jones’ solidarity or lack of it compared to your own heroic efforts at the barricades, but he just comes across as sane and balanced, unlike yourself. Sorry about that.

  • Greg Bacon

    3.Scenarios That Will Test Participants’ Skills –The at-sea portion of the exercise is designed to test participants’ abilities to respond to irregular migration, address illicit trafficking and the movement of materials for weapons of mass destruction. Participants will also practice search and rescue operations.

    Looks like ‘Operation Phoenix Express’ was scheduled to engage in Search and Rescue ops in the Med. How convenient!

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Nothing to do with the thousands of migrants leaving Libya and Turkey in unsafe boats, then. Phew. Now I know it’s a conspiracy I can relax.

      A lot of unneccessarily multiplied hypotheses here today….

  • Loony

    It is interesting to note the variety of theories being aired as to the likely causes of the Egyptair tragedy. Seemingly not too many people seemed motivated to comment as to the most likely theory.

    That theory would be that some dis-affected low paid, economically exploited, radicalised individual loaded an explosive device onto the plane in Paris. There are 60,000 civilian workers with air side clearance at Charles de Gaulle – and after the raised security in France as a consequence of past attacks some 60 people have had their air side clearances revoked.

    No matter the details of any specific incident it is of vital importance that no-one questions the wisdom of importing millions of people with unknown beliefs or ideologies into Europe so as to drive down pay rates. Equally no-one should question the absolute commitment of security agencies in protecting the public. All necessary measures will be taken and the only thing off limits is doing anything to limit the labor surplus and relieve the downward pressure on wages.

    Along with my fellow citizens I demand my right to cheap air fares – even if that results in my own death.

    • Resident Dissident

      I don’t think migration really enters into it – it is probably easier for them to place the bombs on planes if they stay at home.

      • Loony

        It is about effect. It is probably easier to kill people in Iraq or Afghanistan – but you “get a bigger bang for your buck” if you can kill people in Europe or the US.

  • Doug Scorgie

    May 19, 2016 at 19:41

    “So old saddle bag face HRH, from the attached picture, doesn’t look to [too Ed] chuffed at her seating position. Of course her fifth cousin twice removed (I think that’s correct) David Cameron is selling an absolute fortune in weapons to Bahrain. Weapons that are systematically used to suppress the Bahraini people.”

    I’m sure the Queen has no say in any seating arrangements; she is merely a figurehead to be used by the shadow establishment that rules the UK – which Mark Golding referred to earlier – to lend “respectability” to tyrants that play ball.
    The Queen and the rest of the royals are tools of the secret state and they will be in no doubt about what is expected of them. They do as they are told.

    Remember Michael Fagan who managed to climb his way into the Queen’s bedroom in Buck Palace and sat on her bed while she laid there? Perhaps she was being reminded of her station.

    Then there was the incident during student riots in London when the car carrying Prince Charles and Camilla was attacked after an inexplicable detour by their police protection unit landed them in among the rioters in Regent Street.

    The future King will have got the message about who is in charge.

  • James

    The area is “affectionately” known as “Crazy Corner”.

    But an aircraft leaving CDG for Egypt will come under the same controls as an aircraft departing for other countries.
    If smuggling a bomb into CDG, to be placed on an aircraft, wouldn’t the “person or persons” involved sooner go for a “higher valued” target, than Egypt Air. Maybe an Air France aircraft. Or British Airways aircraft. Or even and American Airlines aircraft.

    Of course it could be a “suicide bomber”. And maybe they would have been “picked up” if they were to board a flight bound for another country……BUT they still have to pass through CDG security.

    So that leaves what ?
    No bomb. No suicide bomber. What about a hijacker ?
    There is also a problem with that. The Air Marshall’s. No less than three. And a locked cockpit door.
    Of course, we don’t know who they were. Or if they were involved.
    But again…. if you are going to hijack an aircraft and crash it. Why not crash it into a “high value” target ?
    The aircraft over flew France and Italy. Flying into a “Christian Land” would surely be more “productive” than crashing into the Med…..or into Ciaro.

    All very strange….

    Maybe the bomb was onboard from Ciaro, outbound.
    So it didn’t “go off” ? It was missed on all the checks at CDG ? It suddenly triggered where it did ?
    I can’t buy that.

    • Republicofscotland

      Trowbrige H.Ford.

      Looks like James is trying awfully hard to discredit you, so whatever you’re doing Trowbridge keep doing it .?

      • James

        No. I have “met” Frank before.
        He was utterly discredited then….as he will be again.

        He has yet to explain how you “take over a transponder” (I assume he means (“‘remotely”)

        You see, the Truth Movement is being hurt, by these lunatics.
        I pretty much think these guys are sent out to make real people look mad (by association).
        They have little or no knowledge of any aspect of anything (I am a pilot, so I know how an aircraft works), they sit and post utter rubbish.

        Well, I have “cleared him off” once before….and I guess I’ll have to do it again.
        Frank…. you are bonkers. You should go “elsewhere” now. I will however discredit everything you write. It gives me great pleasure.

        So… stick to the topic (of this forum) and be factual.
        I know you can’t do this…. so I will make you look a fool. As I have done before !

        • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

          I am not going to waste my time with this loon who thinks he has disposed of me as someone called Frank.

          Please supply some evidence rather than just another rant.

          For anyone interested in how transponders work, just google the matter. There are several hundred thousand entries.

          This demand for explanations about things like lasers and nuclear weapons is just SOP for trolls who want critics to explain everything, starting with the basics.

    • John Spencer-Davis

      If you genuinely believe that another poster on here has mental or emotional difficulties, whether that is true, or whether it is not, then jeering and mocking them is the last thing you should be doing, it might be a very dangerous thing to do, so why don’t you give your advice to seek help once, and then just keep your mouth shut and leave the person you are trying to influence alone.

    • Loony

      Maybe you can help me out here. I am interested in learning about the branch of psychiatric medicine that allows for a definitive diagnosis based solely and exclusively upon a persons observations on a blog.

      Is the same technique applicable to physical ailments? For example based on this comment can you diagnose or eliminate the possibility that I may be suffering from malaria?

  • nevermind

    bitch fight,
    late at night,
    ‘no man…. get it right’
    can’t you see what’s on tonight
    get a grip look round,
    plenty of Owens to be found,
    much happened tonight.,
    sleep needs to be found.

  • Ben Monad

    It is amazing how these discussions go all fact myopic. The tolerance for speculations operates with an iron fist of blockbusting reality police. They seek approval from our Host and imagine what he would say if he responded to a comment. The worst thing that can happen is some crazy theories emerge without bridle and so go off the path without accompaniment. So everyone just STFU about what you think is proscribed.

  • Bad Weather Blue

    They are now calling it a mystery in some newspapers. So it must have been the Mysterons. Send for Captain Scarlet.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

      Sounds reasonable, given the incompetent coverage of the crash by the media. Just watched part of a program on CNN where weather and mechanical failure were essentially ruled out.

      It was a deliberate act, either done by a bomber on the ground, likely in Cairo, or suicidal pilots, though not even a mention of the taking over of its transponder, probably by an israeli warship in the southern Mediterranean near the border with Libya.

      These spokesmen should at least be fired for spreading such propaganda or better still sent to prison for repetitive lying.

    • Jim

      Yep, it’s all been covered in detail by the Guardian at least, but you don’t read it in principle it seems? Not sure about the BBC. Glad to see you’ve started identifying RT as a State propaganda tool at last. Or was it sarcasm? ?

      • Mark Golding

        Concealing crucial evidence is a mockery certainly to the families of those who lost their lives when the twin towers collapsed, reporting this deception is a major step forward towards litigation, love and respect..

        • Tony_0pmoc


          Agreed, except the twin towers didn’t collapse.

          They were deliberately blown up, by a process of controlled demolition, by explosives placed within by, a highly experienced demolition team, who had significant security cleared access, before the event.

          That significantly narrows down, the criminals responsible, even if the actual demolition job was outsourced to a foreign demolition team.

          I seriously doubt that any such highly technical team has ever existed in Saudi Arabia, and Fred Dibnah certainly didn’t do it.


          • Mark Golding

            Agreed Tony – read ‘collapse’ as ‘disintegrated’ and yes the Saudi connection is somewhat illusory albeit the disclosure of ‘blacked out’ material will hopefully refocus minds and move forward public rational. Thank-you.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      The 28 pages are bollocks to maintain the Official Fairy Story, that does not comply with the most fundamental laws of physics and maths.

      Trowbridge normally posts a lot of sense, but the little I have seen on his views on this particular subject also do not comply with the most fundamental laws of physics and maths.

      So in this regard, the somewhat obnoxious Jim, may actually have been correct in one personal comment made, about Trowbridge being a disinfo merchant to discredit the 9/11 truth movement. However, lots of highly intelligent people still believe the Official 9/11 Story for deep psychological reasons. I do understand these reasons, because the truth of the matter can be highly personally destructive in multiple ways. For example, I simply told everyone I knew in early 2003 what the Truth was. This caused me a hell of a lot of grief. So leave it alone if you can’t handle the implications, and go and see the Matrix again or read this book..

      “The Matrix is our present manufactured reality, carefully managed for the benefit of elite interests and rarely questioned by those who live within its structures. Escaping the Matrix catalogs the persistent historical patterns of ‘civilized’ hierarchy that keep wealthy elites in control of governments and economies.”


  • Sami

    In order to rubbish any notion of media control, it is not too uncommon to let the occasional truth be aired. Therefore, it comes as no surprise to me that in order to demonstrate a semblance of balanced reporting and deflect any accusation of the controlled brain-washing reality, an occasional dose of truth is permitted, if not instructed. This may explain Sam Kiley’s real role in the charade of free press. Make no mistake, all prominent journalists know what is expected of them and that their very lucrative remuneration, as well as job security, hinges on staying within certain parameters.

    • lysias

      Even Goebbels allowed the occasional dissent to be expressed in the Berliner Tageblatt and the Frankfurter Zeitung.

  • nevermind

    Chelsea Manning has lodged an appeal against her 30 year sentence, to be seen what the the judges do about it.

  • Chris Rogers

    A little off thread, but here’s more detail on the Clinton-Nevada ‘stitch-up’ of Saunders last weekend, an interesting read and adds much to our understanding:

    And to Jim, this alleged ‘anti-semite’ is pro-Bernie, maybe something to do with him not being a whore of AIPAC or the DNC, which makes him a good fellow in my books, unlike your good friend Owen Jones the SJW.

    • Jim

      I’m not suggesting you’re antisemitic Chris, just that that you weaken your position by using antisemitic tropes that make you sound like a raving Nazi to anyone willing to try and smear you as one. You give your enemies ammunition. It’s basic common sense to try and be measured in your language. Look at Regev’s language and demeanour under crossfire from Jon Snow on Ch4 news…cool as a cucumber, measured and sane. You can hate Israeli policy as much as you like, but qualities like that have an effect and are worth emulating on your own side of the argument. For clarity, I don’t think for a minute you’re antisemitic. Or that Bevin seriously would like to exterminate all perceived class enemies for that matter, although sometimes I’m not so sure. ?

      • Chris Rogers


        Anyone can accuse me of being what they like, and as anyone can tell by my posts, I’m opposed to PC and write as I write, unless it’s appearing on my own website or in print format, in which case great care is taken as that costs money. My gripe against Jones is sincere, he failed his peers at The Guardian, as did the other SJW’s they employ. Indeed, when Murdoch shuttered the News of the World I did not celebrate, quite the reverse I was actually concerned for those losing their jobs, most of whom certainly were not Tories. Had Jones stuck up for his peers at GMG my opinion of him would have changed, but he’s said nothing, which should concern you as much as it concerns me.

        However, lets move on, we’ve hogged the board enough and time to focus on this terrible crash.

        • Jim

          Fair enough Chris, no harm done. I’m sick of the sight of myself too, I should get off to the local supermarket car park and start screaming. Or preferably go for a run. Listening to Guy Clark at the mo…he died t’other day…one of the true greats. Cheerio, and sorry if I offended you.

          • Chris Rogers


            Most contributions here are valid, and anyone who believes in freedom of speech must defend all persons opinion, not just their own or the choir shall we say – indeed, that’s what human rights is all about. Hence, it okay to disagree, okay to flame, but the reality is, perhaps best stay on topic as this tragedy ain’t nice for those involved, and one of those killed is Welsh, which brings it right home. Suffice to say, I have a huge fear of flying, and indeed travelling by sea, and these catastrophes as turning me into a virtual hermit.

          • Jim

            Probably still a chance in a million for any individual to be unlucky enough but yep, terrorist threat or not, flying always gives me the heebies. It’s the total lack of any control I suppose. One of the darkest areas to think about, a bit like torture.

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