Back to the Future 400

The priority now of the political “elite” is to ensure voters never again get the chance to make a choice the political class do not want. Jeremy Corbyn is the thing the political class want least.

Do you remember when 184 Labour MPs refused to vote against the Tory benefit cuts that ruined lives and caused suicides? They did so on the grounds that their focus groups showed the public wanted benefit cuts, and so it would be wrong to oppose the Tory Welfare Reform and Work Bill.

Well, I can promise you that the 172 Labour MPs who voted to no-confidence Corbyn are exactly the same people who would not oppose welfare cuts. The net effect of the Corbyn year has been that 12 Labour MPs have decided that they have a purpose in politics which is not just personal gain. The vast majority would vote to push the unemployed off a cliff if they thought it would get them career advancement. Or adapt the John Mann anti-immigrant agenda.

Make no mistake. If Corbyn is deposed, the people of England and Wales will be back to having a choice between two colours of Tory. Labour will go full on anti welfare, anti immigrant and pro-nuclear weapon. Because Jon Cruddas will tell them that is what will get them elected.

In the UK, 78% of people do not know the name of their MP. With Labour MPs it was 82%. The idea that they have a “personal mandate” is rubbish. People vote for the party. In Blackburn I stood as an Independent against Jack Straw and all the main parties, and got 5% of the vote. Not one of those 172 Labour Party MPs would get 5% if they stood as an Independent.

The SNP has mandatory reselection for every MP and MSP for every election. It is a fundamental democratic need. The mainstream media are now trying to generate horror at the idea that the Labour MPs should be accountable to their local members, in whose name they wish to stand again. It is a ridiculous argument that people who have behaved like Simon Danczuk should have the right to represent the Labour Party for life. Yet it is the democratic alternative which the media are seeking to demonise.

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400 thoughts on “Back to the Future

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  • John Spencer-Davis

    I was preparing these two links when Ben soberly reminded us of the tragedy in Istanbul.

    Take some heart (and some anger) from these. Remember that the earliest was only two months ago.

    “The media is ignoring the fact that Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour is pulling ahead in the polls
    About 10 days ago, The Times published an extraordinary voter poll, which the paper commissioned from YouGov: It showed Labour with a three-point lead over the Conservatives in voting intention, and with Jeremy Corbyn’s personal ratings seven points ahead of those for Prime Minister David Cameron.”

    “Jeremy Corbyn would win a second Labour leadership contest with even more support, poll finds
    “Labour members would overwhelmingly reject any attempt by the party’s MPs to replace Jeremy Corbyn as leader, a new poll suggests.
    The YouGov survey for The Times newspaper found that a significant 64 per cent of members would vote for Mr Corbyn in a leadership ballot triggered by an attempted coup.”

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is despite all the crap that has been thrown at him over the past ten months or so. Imagine how much better things would have been if these jokers had been doing their jobs and supporting their leader. He’s had to take on the Tories, the media, and his own party, among others – and he’s still standing, and not only that, but he’s been increasing his party’s popularity.

    Makes me sick.

    • RobG

      I tried to reply to Ben’s post at 15.06, but gawd knows what the criminal psychos at GCHQ, et al, are doing to this site, so I’ll see if I can reply to you, John:

      You are completely on topic.

      The problem is, there’s very little discussion about American/corporate wars and the knock-on effect of them.

      Likewise, very little discussion about how totally corrupt the Turkish government is, and why the Turks are being allowed to join the EU.

      • Tony_0pmoc


        It may simply be that it is very busy.

        However, I did get a message I have not seen before when I just attempted to log on.

        Maybe Craig Murray’s website is now on the naughty list.


    • MJ

      Thanks for those links, a sobering reality check for the proponents of the tired, out of touch group-think so prevalent in the media and, sadly, on this site.

      • Alcyone: The Age when Eagles are Creepy Toothless Crocodiles

        Where do you ferret these out from Macky? It’s a good one if it’s true.

        PS I hope people have now understood the sub-text I’ve been waving alongside my name for the last couple of days. Of course we all know that we have some particularly thick ones around here. Still it’s one of the best political blogs around and full credit to Craig.

  • Pete

    I think that, given the limitations of the first past the post voting system and the resulting bias towards two main parties, we mostly end up with the politicians we deserve. Since they all want to be elected the bias is towards the centre ground, and as both the main parties are hostile to voting reform this is not likely to change. Still, I hope that Scotland gains its independence and the it can successfully join the EU.

    On a totally different note I see that the revised Union flag without the Scottish element leaves the UK with a flag much like that of Norway, but with the Red and Blue exchanged. I think one of the new UK economic opportunities will be in the manufacture of the flag with the revised design.

  • Republicofscotland

    The majority of the PLP are effectively trying to suspend democracy until the outcome they want is acheived, Cincinnatus would be ashamed of their antics.

    Today I heard Margaret Becket on the radio, at the point of tears (crocodile tears who knows) as she proclaimed she’d backed every Labour leader she’d served under. But she just couldn’t back Jeremy Corbyn any longer.

    I found it rather distasteful today at PMQ’s when Tory PM David Cameron aimed a shot across the house at Corbyn, telling him he must go. It is clear the very heart and soul of the Labour party and what direction it will next take, is being fought over.

    I can only hope that Corbyn is resolute enough to overcome the monumental task ahead of him. I’m reminded of the words of Teddy Roosevelt, a man who possessed great vigour and forward thinking.

    Roosevelt would say on coming up against a difficult obstacle or task.

    “Over it, under it, through it, but never around it.”

    • Mulga Mumblebrain

      Or as the great Gough Whitlam, Australia’s greatest ever PM, said, ‘Crash through or crash’. And he was destroyed by a conspiracy between the local Right, the USA and Satan Himself-Rupert Murdoch.

  • Alistair Granham

    Now I know you’re right! At PMQ’s David Cameron has told Jeremy Corbyn to go. Labour MPs are being helped by the Tory leader to gang up on their own leader – how has it come to this?

    • MJ

      Because a section of the Labour Party and the Tories are actually on the same side and they are desperate. The Establishent is near to collapse.

      • michael norton

        I don’t think they like the result of the recent Referendum, the whole Establisment was for Remain but the voters pluped for Leave.

          • michael norton

            I expect the little turd got a few of those himself at school, he must have been obnoxious from birth

    • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)


      Have you considered the possibility that Mr Cameron and the Conservatives very much want Mr Jeremy Corbyn to remain as Labour leader and that he is calling on Mr Corbyn to go precisely in the hope that this will rally the troops behind Mr Corbyn?

      You will know that British political history over the past decades contains several examples of the leader of governing political party X very much hoping that the leader of the opposition party at the next general election would be A rather than B and of doing all he could, in his modest way, to promote that hope.

  • Martinned

    None of this matters, because Corbyn can’t save Labour from annihilation any more than his professional politician class colleagues can. If there is a general election this year, they’re toast, because this referendum has shown that large swathes of traditional Labour voters have no loyalty left for the party (or even their unions). Corbyn plays well in Islington, but no one in the North cares about his opinion on anything, least of all Brexit.

    Don’t get me wrong, this is a Bad Thing. Even though I’d never vote for Labour, I’d think it’s clear that this country needs a good left-wing opposition. The last thing we need is a Poland-style system where the electorate get to choose between varying degrees of (centre-)right and populist. But I don’t see how Labour can avoid collapse, except by letting the Tories run themselves into the ground first. (And even then.)

    • MJ

      Perhaps you haven’t seen the recent polls referred to in JSD’s post above. Sobering. Time to discard the fantasies and face reality.

      • Martinned

        Interesting, I didn’t know that. I still don’t think that that is particularly comforting, though. On a constituency-by-constituency basis, things might look quite different. After all, it’s not the Tories that I’m worried about, but those 140-odd seats where UKIP came second to Labour.

    • nevermind

      So what you are projecting is that Labour lefties have turned into right wing reactionaries. If a red green alliance happens, then this will add PR to the mix on offer, not just an end to the bedroom tax and long term safeguarding of workers rights. One thing people seem to understand now is that they never had a democracy, that politicians don’t have to take their word for it and that the prom,ises at the doorstep mean nothing whatsoever.

      So in your view Labour is collapsing, whilst the Tories are sitting pretty, all united, full of ideas on how they gonna do it. Do what? they are bereft of plans, don’t know how to get out of this mess they did not plan for. Thanks for Laura Kuensberg and the BBC focusing on the opposition, spreading the hatred and secret underhand tactics of the Blairites who are desperate to keep their primitive Tory vision alive.

      Those who are named as the guilty part in Chilcots report should face justice, they have misled and lied to the combined House of Commons to go into an illegal, primitive war, again, without a plan for Iraqs civilians. Blair’s decisions have killed tens if not hundreds of thousands and he has treated Parliaments rules with contempt and disdain, to make himself look good. Machiavelli reborn.

      Time for reckoning and those who like to play at being antisocial Tories in red coats can now join Mandy and his oligarch games.

      • Martinned

        What I’m projecting is that the Tories will argue but survive, while Labour will lose seats to UKIP whether they argue internally or not.

        That’s not because those Labour voters have suddenly become reactionaries – many of them will have been reactionaries for some time, but that’s not really the point – but because voting for Jeremy Corbyn or for anyone who might replace him isn’t much of a way to protest the system. We’ve all amused ourselves about those Leave voters who said they regretted their vote, but the bulk of the Leave voters are emboldened not discouraged. If a General Election comes later this year, they’ll want to stick with their anti-establishment vote, and voting Labour simply doesn’t give you the same nice anti-establishment buzz as voting for Farage.

    • Mulga Mumblebrain

      ‘Even though I’d never vote for Labour…’. Says it all, really. Dismissed!

  • Martinned

    By the way, for what it’s worth, here is my perspective as a foreigner in Britain:

    I find it very odd that the Party – any party – would force the parliamentary party to work with a leader they don’t want. In other countries I’m familiar with, there’s generally a separation between the choice of the leader of the parliamentary party, which is for the parliamentary party to decide, and the choice of the party leader for an election, which is the choice of the entire party. Often those two people are the same, but not necessarily so. (For example when the party leader sits in cabinet, and can therefore not lead the parliamentary party.)

    • Republicofscotland

      What’s the word in the Netherland’s on ( Nexit) a Netherland’s exit of the EU? Is Geert Wilders and his Dutch Party for Freedom, doing a Nigel Farage and pushing for a Nexit?

      Or is he blaming the UK’s EU exit on Islam?

      • Martinned

        O no, he’s fully on the Nexit bandwagon. But that doesn’t matter unless Rutte’s VVD party decides they need to try to compete for his voters by promising a referendum, which I very much doubt they’ll do unless they really really have to. (And even then, I’m not sure whether the right-wing populists, the VVD and the left-wing populists have a majority together. Moreover, the latter have already said that they want a referendum, but on EU reform rather than Nexit.)

        • Republicofscotland

          Isn’t Rutte a Liberal? And last I read the Netherlands had huge debts and austerity was on the cards. What do the PVDA say about a Nexit or austerity, and has Queen Betrix voicec a opinion on Nexit?

          • Martinned

            He is, but not a LibDems kind of social-democrat liberal. Not sure what the national debt or austerity have to do with anything, other than – in the case of the latter – as an explanation why voters would vote for Nexit.

            The PvdA (=Labour) are in coalition with the VVD, and that means that this is what they bargained for. The Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem (the chairman of the Eurogroup and, this semester, ECOFIN) is PvdA. Like social-democrats everywhere, they are more paranoid about not looking weak on debt/crime/etc. than about actually doing what’s best for the country. As a result, they stand to lose more than half their seats if an election were held today, according to the polls.

            Queen Beatrix hasn’t been the queen for several years. Princess Beatrix is enjoying her retirement, as far as I know, and does not have any opinion on Nexit that anyone knows about. (But, as the daughter of the guy that founded Bilderberg, we can guess.)

        • Mulga Mumblebrain

          All immaterial because the Netherlands will be under water within decades.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        The Dutch will never vote for a Nexit. Although sometimes (and well so) an obstinate and opinionated people and despite considerable unease about the Muslim presence, they are also canny enough to know on which side their (economic) bread is buttered.


        It is interesting to see commenters of a generally left-wing (to put it mildly) disposition on here smacking their chops at the possibility that Continentals such as the Front national, Mr Wilders’s lot, and various central and eastern European very right-wing parties might also ask for exit referendums.
        Strange allies, to say the least, 🙂

        • Martinned

          The Dutch would vote against Santa Clause right now if the government endorsed him. (As would the French and a whole bunch of other countries.)

          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)


            I appreciate your dry humour (sincerely) but I think you’re wrong.

            It is true that over the past couple of decades various countries have voted against Treaty changes but (as another commenter has pointed out) that is not the same as voting to leave the EC/EU.

          • Martinned

            The Netherlands voted against the government not only in the Constitutional Treaty referendum, but also in the recent Ukraine referendum. 62/38. Turnout was only 32%, but no increase in turnout is going to fix those numbers, at least not once our friends of Project Truth are done with the electorate. (They managed to make the 2005 referendum about Turkey joining the EU, and the Ukraine referendum about Ukraine joining the EU, so imagine what they could do with a Nexit referendum.)

          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

            You are pointing out that in a referendum people tend to vite about everything other than the issue the referendum is supposed to be about.

            Perhaps referendums only work as intended of they are on the Swiss model, ie, they are frequent and on issues which are reasonably specific and to the extent possible with as few wider ramifications as possible. Both of these aspects might tend to improve the chances of people actually voting on the issue they’re being asked about.

          • Martinned

            I agree. Swiss-style referendums work, but the problem is that it takes a while to get there. They have referendums four times a year, and on several issues at once each time. That gets people used to actually voting on the issue at hand, it gives various parties (including, but not limited to, the Government) skill at campaigning, etc. But what do you do for the first couple of years?

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)


    Would you be offended if I offered the thought that you – a convinced European (even a European federalist) and supporter of the EU in principle (even if you do not like its current economic and social orientation…which could change as you yourself wrote) – seem to be chickening out of the Remain/Leave debate?

    You appear to prefer to focus on Mr Jeremy Corbyn and the fight within the Labour Party and the somewhat easier subject of the position of Scotland (including a second referendum) in the context of the eventuality of an actual Brexit.

    Although there seems to be a majority on here in favour of Brexit – including several expressions of glee at the thought that certain Continental nationalist/extreme right-wing parties are starting to call for their own referendums on EU membership – your reluctance to engage within the most important issue on the table is as surprising as it is disappointing.

    To use the verb used by the SNP deputy in the EP, I beg you to take off the gloves and land a few heavy punches!

    • oblivious

      I’m sure Mr Murray needs no prompting from you as to the subject matter he wishes to write about. Despite your self promoted sense of importance, you are just another contributor, albeit an irritating one.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        A somewhat more engaged, informed and interesting contributor than you, perhaps, but thank you for presuming to reply on behalf of Craig nevertheless 🙂

    • Republicofscotland

      Oh, yes the glee, the pound has nose dived, stocks have tettered on verge of collapse, Standard and Poors and Moody’s have reclassed the UK as a basket case.

      Meanwhile Boris Johnson and the Tories, are petrified to to trigger article 50, because they haven’t a clue what to do after Brexit.

      Meanwhile half of Europe thanks to Nigel Farage, and his speech, now thinks we in Britian, are a bunch of salivating inbred racists,

      However Alyn Smith’s passionate plea, and standing ovation shone a bright light on Scotland’s aspiration to remain European.

  • Darth

    Due to repeated bot generated incoming traffic floods we have enabled Cloudflare “Under Attack” mode. This may cause some problems for some readers and/or a captcha/challenge. We will switch back to normal mode when we can.

    • RobG

      Thanks for the info, Darth.

      I need hardly point out that for those of us who stand up against these feckers/criminals it’s easy to get paranoid.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        The plutocrats are very obviously fearful of the insightful and devastating critiques which are appearing on here, Lysias.

  • John Spencer-Davis

    I’ve just had an e-mail from my local MP explaining why he voted against Jeremy Corbyn in the no confidence vote.

    I’ve written back to ask him: (a) if he will support Jeremy Corbyn wholeheartedly if the Labour Party electorate reaffirms him as leader; and (b) if not, will he consider his position as a Labour MP.

    Let you know what he replies, if anything.

    • Ba\'al Zevul

      Don’t waste your time. Tell him you’ve no confidence in his ability to be your MP, that he failed to support (insert issue with which MP basically disagrees) to the best of his ability, and that you’ll be voting Green next time unless he is replaced with someone capable of doing what his constituents want.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        That will be about as effective, Baal, as your suggestion, many moons back, htat anti-Zionists should show their anger at Israeli policies by standing outside British synagogues and hissing (or was it shouting?) at the entering worshippers.

        • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)


          I am commenting on the feasibility of Baal’s suggestion and backing up my comment with another suggestion Baal made some time ago and which remains on the record for those who care to scroll back far enough.

        • Ba'al Zevul's Spamfiltered Sock

          Since it was never tried, your assertion is baseless. I can’t remember if I suggested hissing, but it seems to have shocked you, so presumably it would have had some effect on its audience…

          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

            Yes, I’m aware you eventually admitted that you never tried out the thing you were recommending others should do.

            And you, a former officer!

            And yes, I did find your recommendation rather shocking now you mention it 🙂

          • Ba'al Zevul's Spamfiltered Sock

            Just a tiny reminder of the circumstances of that post of mine, which caused you so much grief, (happily):


            Yet another major assault by the IDF in the name of the Xxxish state was at its peak. On an area already deprived of essentials, containing over a million civilians at the highest population density on earth, with the very latest in massive weaponry. Killing upwards of 2000, a substantial number of which were children, wrecking infrastructure, hospitals and entire residential areas.

            Beside which peaceful demonstration intended to bring the iniquity of what was being done in their name home to the co-religionists of the said state should seem reasonable to anyone but a paid propagandist.

            However, you brought it up. I didn’t.

          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

            “.. peaceful demonstration intended to bring the iniquity of what was being done in their name home to the co-religionists of the said state should seem reasonable to anyone but a paid propagandist.”

            I suspect that quite few people would not find it reasonable to recommend protesting against an action of the Israeli state by standing outside synagogues in the UK and hissing and shouting at the “co-religionists” (aka the Jews) they enter to worship.

            But don’t take my word for it, Baal – after all, in the end you didn’t put your recommendation into effect yourself, did you……

  • Republicofscotland

    This from the Spectator.

    “Labour MPs who oppose Corbyn’s leadership now see the coup us unstoppable, and believe that if necessary they will have to hold repeated votes and leadership contests in order to dislodge him.”

    ” They think that the chaos that this would cause would still be better than the way he is leading the party, and would at least move them closer to their goal, which is to remove him and replace him with someone, anyone, who isn’t of the hard left.”


    It would appear according the above article, that the careerist Blairites intend to keep undermining Corbyn, even if he’s re-elected again, and again, and again. Unless of course Corbyn can purge the lot of them.

    Still I wonder if the Blairites will form a breakaway party if Corbyn wins the election. However, that may be difficult, who would fund them?

    • John Spencer-Davis

      They must be off their chumps. If he’s voted back in, what do they think is going to happen if they try to chuck him out again?

      I fear for his physical safety; he’d better watch himself.

      • Ba\'al Zevul

        I fear for his physical safety

        I bloody don’t. I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on his mutilated corpse.

          • Ba'al Zevul's Spamfiltered Sock

            No. I was suffering a blairout. My train of thought got derailed, and I would like to make it absolutely clear that I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on Blair if he were on fire, although on reflection, if my bladder were full, and if it did not involve too great an excursion from my route. I might piss on his mutilated corpse. Not Corbyn’s, whom the saints attend, but Blair’s.


          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

            Baal – I hope you weren’t in a state of shock after being reminded of your hissing recomendation 🙂

            If so, apologies!

        • John Spencer-Davis

          I meant, if Labour members are stubborn about wanting Corbyn, I fear that more drastic methods of eliminating him from the ballot may be employed eventually.

          • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

            I smell the birth of a conspiracy theory! 🙂


            Is anyone really meant to take such comments seriously?

            If I were the moderator, I would delete them on sight.

    • Ba\'al Zevul

      Still I wonder if the Blairites will form a breakaway party if Corbyn wins the election. However, that may be difficult, who would fund them?

      The people who always funded them. Expect to see ‘Lord’ Levy back from Tel Aviv to lend a hand.

    • Shatnersrug

      They won’t be there past the next election, we already have possible labour candidates to stand against them – the constituencies will decide – but seeing unpopular spads were parachuted into safe seats there is little thirst for having them back compared to a local candidate.

      In short they’ve had it. As for the spectator – what do they know? Just another establishment liar.

  • RobG

    This is basically how old-style capitalism works: you provide goods and services that people want/need and they will pay for it. You are set against competitors who will try to provide these goods/services at a lower price.

    The Guardian, on the otherhand, is asking you to pay for crap (aka propaganda; CIA propaganda), whilst all the competitors are providing exactly the same crap. The Guardian could turn a profit simply by telling the truth; but truth is most definitely not part of the agenda.

    There is no real democracy without at least a half-way informed populace.

    • j

      Something I’ve wondered for some years. There’s an enormous gap in the market for well researched, exhaustively sourced, truthful, information which challenges assumptions (of all flavours) with the best information available. A demand larger than at any time in recent memory. Which begs the question, why hasn’t it been filled?

      There are multitudes of orphaned investigative journalists who could work together, simply pooling blogs for source material would be a good place to begin, each keeping their separate identities and endeavours but publishing together. A crowd funded start-up news co-operative.

      And perhaps nimble enough to emerge out of the feed back loop of reacting to events with anticipatory strategic goals which ride out front of the common agendas of virtually all MSM.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)


        I read somewhere that in the USA there’s a respected organisation called “Fact check” (or something similar) which does what you are suggesting. Or is it only operative in the run uo to US Presidentia elections?

        Perhaps regular commenter Lysias- an American – could furnish some information on this?

        • charles drake

          habbabbababluk i agree.
          i have an idea the 172 new labour mp friends of tory blair should set up a new party.
          how about westminster likud or the lehi group?

    • lysias

      I once read in the book Presse und Funk im Dritten Reich [Press and Radio in the Third Reich] (which I have unfortunately mislaid) that, in the first year of Nazi rule, the circulation of newspapers dropped precipitously, by something like 50%. There too, with a couple of exceptions, all the newspapers spouted the same predictable line.

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        “j” is making a point about the present and is suggesting a kind of news cooperative to provide factual, unbiased information.

        You are telling us about 80 years ago (in Germany, to boot) and giving us information (again) about newspaper circulations after the Nazis came to power.

        Is your comment relevant to what j was writing about – and where is your answer to my question about “Fact Check”?

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Oh dear – is someone doing a Denial of Service attack on Craig Murray’s website?

    How completely pathetic.

    I consider that criminal behaviour. I hope the security services are working hard to identify the source….of if its the security services doing it – then the UK Police Fraud Squad. Some of them are technically brilliant.

    Go on arrest the buggers.


  • fedup

    It took Brexit for the establishment to realise they have a racism problem! After stoking the fires of hatred for the last fifteen years, suddenly the attention is turned to racism, and their prevalent vile conduct in the virtual and real world alike. Hence the sudden rash of arrests of the racists, whoa re spreading hatred against immigrants and Muslims.

    Funny that DM is running the stories without making the comments section available for comments: “Sorry we are not currently accepting comments on this article.”

    Meanwhile back at the traitors den aka PLP the masters of the neo labour whom won’t let “people” to boss them around, and if they want an MP like that they deserve it, Frank Fields has gone on record with his contempt for the people of Birkenhead! Public servant is no longer the case for neo labour of bLiar they want to be the Boss and if you don’t like it tough!

    “Get stuffed all seventy thousand of you in Birkenhead” says Frank Fields the MP for Birkenhead!

    • Tony_0pmoc

      fedup, Blimey, what an arrogant turd – and I always thought he was one of decent ones.

      • Tony M

        Field has views on social-security and the poor that would make IDS pale, the man (Field) is a troughing hypocrite through and through.

        • fedup

          Tony M why do you think this turd as Tony_ put it has been selected for the works and pensions committee? These megalomaniacs have taken over the zombie neo labour is no longer fit for any purpose other than backing the oligarchs and reinforcing the echo chamber. This is manifest form the evidence in the copious “contributions” of the known stooges, keyboard warrior assigned to this board/blog.

      • fedup

        But he is the kind of “strong leader” that is promoted on beebeecee! This is the level of ignorance of the electorate to tolerate such a coup and come out in the support of the failed Tories in the neo labour.

    • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)


      I think those last two lines were invented by you, despite the impression they give of being a quote. This view is based on your mis-spelling of Field’s name (it would not have been mis-spelled had it been a quote from another source and on the fact that nowhere in the video clip does he say “get stuffed” as you claim.

      Please give me your home address and I will send you one of those fake red t-shirts Craig posted about.

  • Republicofscotland

    Radio news.

    Rather disappointingly Spains’s PM Mariano Rajoy, and French President, Francios Hollande, have declared that Scotland can’t remain in the EU whilst part of the UK.

    It looks like a second indy ref is the way forward.

    • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

      With some expertise in that field myself I second what Craig wrote on the subject. It is impossible.

    • Laguerre

      “Rather disappointingly Spains’s PM Mariano Rajoy, and French President, Francios Hollande, have declared that Scotland can’t remain in the EU whilst part of the UK.”

      Their position is reasonable. Scotland has to declare independence before negotiations. They can’t negotiate with a non-state actor.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

    Would it be out of order for me to remind readers that the Labour Party has a long and honorable history of tearing itself apart over policy?

    Think 1931, think the 1950s, think the 1980s.

    So what’s new?

    • Tony_0pmoc

      What is new – is that over the last 20 years, the labour party has been infiltrated by people who bare absolutely no relationship whatsoever to the core values – going back over 100 years – which represent the entire reason the labour party was started in the first place.

      The can of worms is now rapidly opening – and the little people – are now beginning to see what evil bastards the Blairies are….and they are fighting back.

      They know what is at stake…and they are showing courage and common sense.

      We won’t take it anymore.

      We want justice.

      These creeps are now afraid of us.

      Its DEMOCRACY vs Dictatorship


      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        You mean infiltration like the infiltration of Labour by the Militant Tendency in (I believe) the 1980s, Opmoc?

        I recall people at the time saying that Militant Tendency had nothing to do with the “core values…100 years..blah blah.. of the Labour Party”

  • Sam

    What is being orchestrated against Corbyn is reminiscent to what Ernest Bevin had to put up with when taking the correct stand in 1940s in connection Palestine. The eminent contemporary Douglas Reed covered the which-hunt to which Bevin was subjected in his invaluable book The Controversy of Zion. Unfortunately for the victims, Bevin’s policy did not prevail under the intense pressure from the forces of evil.

      • swordfish

        Cheers, Tony. Apologies to people if the link doesn’t work – possibly because its a New Zealand website ?

        The “Spot the Plot” post you’ve linked to is by another analyst – former Secretary of the New Zealand Labour Party, Mike Smith (and, yes, a very good analysis).

        I was linking to a long-ish comment I made on The Standard’s Open Mike of 28 June. Here’s the Open Mike post – you’ll need to scroll a quarter of the way down the comments (same name – swordfish – same purple Identicon)

        Essentially, I was taking issue with both the (1) “millions of Labour voters defied Corbyn’s authority” argument and (2) the arguably even more ludicrous idea that an Internal poll that suggests 71% Labour voter loyalty (from 2015 Election) is some sort of shock, horror king-hit against Corbyn. When in fact that sort of degree of voter loyalty is entirely normal for both major parties (as most recent polls have shown – the latest Survation, for instance, has 73% Labour loyalty / 71% Tory loyalty and just 60% Lib-Dem loyalty)

        Here’s the original link again …

        • Tony_0pmoc


          open-mike-29062016/ still doesn’t work for me in either chrome or firefox…yet I can still access it from

          if I scroll down (it really does look like a case of internet censorship) – what on earth did you kiwi’s write?? I am now intrigued.


          Open mike 29/06/2016

          Written By: Anthony R0bins – Date published: 6:00 am, June 29th, 2016 – 179 comments
          Categories: open mike – Tags:

          openmikeOpen mike is your post.

          For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

          Step up to the mike …
          Share this:


          Daily Review 28/06/2016
          A Socialist perspective on Brexit, the European Union and the coup on Corbyn

          179 comments on “Open mike 29/06/2016”

          Comment on post

          Paul 1
          29 June 2016 at 6:13 am

          Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
          We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

          Selfish, greedy.
          Private landlords.

          ‘Working group formed to combat substandard housing’

          “Horrendous” rental accommodation in Tararua has prompted the community to take matters into their own hands. A working group has been formed to look at the quality of community housing, social housing and pensioner housing in the district.

          Winter told Stuff some people simply struggled to keep their homes warm, dry and safe.
          “Housing is an important issue. It’s a lot more important than people think. When you’ve never had to live in a car or sleep in someone’s garage you don’t understand. Often those people who are in that position don’t have much of a voice.”

          Read more here…

          Psycho Milt 1.1
          29 June 2016 at 9:30 am

          Selfish, greedy.
          Private tenants.

          Pretty stupid, huh?
          McFlock 1.1.1
          29 June 2016 at 11:22 am

          bad rental housing doesn’t kill the landlords.
          Paul 2
          29 June 2016 at 6:13 am

          Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
          We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

          Timaru District Council

          Timaru council report dismisses ‘living wage’ proposal

          A call to raise Timaru District Council workers’ wages has been knocked back in a council report.
          Timaru man Roger Fagg has requested the council pay a “living wage to all those it employs and to those it contracts work to”.
          However, a council report estimates paying at least $19.25 an hour to all workers would cost an extra $200,000 a year and recommends not implementing the measure.
          In fact, an announcement from the Family Centre Social Policy Research Unit in February indicates its definition of the living wage for the financial year ending 2017 is $19.80 an hour, or 29.8 per cent higher than the national minimum wage of $15.25 an hour.

          Read more here…

          I Feel Love 2.1
          29 June 2016 at 6:38 am

 The Mayor is on a paltry $115,000

 Happy to vote themselves pay rises, who wouldn’t I suppose.
          Paul 2.1.1
          29 June 2016 at 6:54 am

          Thank you.

          Greedy, selfish and uncaring.
          Timaru District Council
          Colonial Viper
          29 June 2016 at 8:29 am

          If you do not approve, vote councillors on who will campaign for the living wage.
          Ad 2.1.2
          29 June 2016 at 8:27 am

          Maybe someone from the left can successfully stand for mayor in Timaru? No?”

  • Manda

    “Anti-Corbyn Labour MPs investigate party name ownership ”

    Reminds me of the Name British steel recently transferring into it’s second set of grasping private hands. A name/title carries a history and an image especially when long standing. It can have immense PR, public relations and even sentimental value, a very important thing for a corporate political party (or any political party). Blairite MPs do not represent the name Labour (Party) they are currently showing utter contempt for working class people and grass roots Labour supporters and members. They should call any new party they form the Blair party (or war party) following the Blair doctrine, part of which soon to be revealed by the Chilcot report.

    Watching this disgraceful attack on Corbyn unfold and how he is standing up to it shows clearly he has the courage, strength of character and determination needed to be a leader of a country never mind a party.

    • Manda

      PR should have been deleted. Apologies. I need a long walk to enjoy the Earth and all it’s natural treasures.

    • nevermind

      Isn’t it funny Manda that these scoundrels can’t think of any other name, but want to steal the cloth of the Labour party.
      Is that their first idea when thinking of a new party? rather than the voters and their concerns. They should be resigning their seats now!

    • Tony_0pmoc


      Now that really is Fear and Desperation.

      The obvious name for the Expelled Blairites New Party is the National Socialist Party.


    • Mick McNulty

      I think their idea is if they can take the name of Labour they’ll get to keep everything else that is Labour – it’s buildings, bank accounts, copyright and publishing rights etc. The whole lot. It would be like stealing the party from around Jeremy Corbyn, like evicting somebody by dismantling the house around them and putting it up somewhere else. I don’t see how they can hope to achieve it.

  • exiled off mainstreet

    Labour self-immolates with their coup against Corbyn. In fact, I suspect that the threat of the coup was what kept Corbyn from suggesting the party oppose Brexit, which would have made the campaign a rout. If the coup is successful, Corbyn and his supporters are faced with organising a new independent Labour party against the quisling group which has been in effective control since the smarmy git took over. It has an international imperial flavour since the yankee move into fascist imperialism was redoubled when the Clintons seized control over what had been the more enlightened party. I think that the Labour debacle reflects upon the Clintons, who were the model for Blair’s hostile takeover of Labour. Unfortunately, this leaves Trump as by far the lesser evil and his victory is necessary for assured survival and a breathing space to regenerate progressive elements. He is the lesser evil because his positions on war, militarism, neoliberal trade pacts, and pensions are well to the starboard of the Harpy-controlled party. In Britain, tory rule will be the outcome, since as Mr. Murray indicates, the Blairite “Labour” party is merely toryism in another guise, and I see no way forward for such a party installed after such an obvious coup as is occurring.

  • mike

    Hear, hear, John Spencer. Join the party. Ensure that OMOV is upheld.Vote Corbyn.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

    No one with any historical knowledge and awareness will be ignorant of the fact that the Labour Party has been characterised by infighting for considerable periods of its history.

    If one were unkind, one could almost say it’s in the Labour Party’s DNA

    So the infighting which appears to be going on at the moment should not really surprise anyone, should it.

    That’s a point which can’t be dismissed by facile references to “infiltration” or the Murdoch press (as just two examples).

    • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

      To which I should add that those periods of infighting roughly corresponded to rather long periods out of office.

    • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

      In fact, one could well argue that the periods of infighting were kick-started by Labour being booted out of office.

      Truly, there is nothing new under the sun, as Professor Herbie once wrote.

      • michael norton

        Corbyn putting Labour ‘in peril’ by refusing to quit – Tom Fatboy Watson

        Jeremy Corbyn is refusing to stand down despite his position being untenable, his deputy Tom Watson has told the BBC.

        Mr Watson said the Labour leader had rebuffed his calls to resign, leaving the party “in an impasse” which risked turning into an “existential crisis”.

    • John Spencer-Davis

      If the unions don’t want him to go, and plenty of CLPs don’t want him to go, and a large part of the membership doesn’t want him to go, and the matter has not been put to the test by a leadership challenge, why the thump should he go?

      Stick it out, Jeremy, and make them do it the hard way – if they can.

        • michael norton

          It was part of David Cameron’s plan
          to win the Referendum, then straight away go for a vote in Parliament to re-new TRIDENT.

          Anyway Call Me Dave did not win the Referendum and he is slinging his hook,
          he will not trigger the starting pistol for leave, he is leaving that for the next incumbent.
          So, does that also mean that the tricky question of re-newing TRIDENT
          will also be shelved?

        • YouKnowMyName

          Ok, that partly archive BBC Panorama quality joufnalism by Jane Corbin (no relation) was seemingly a fair analysis; normally the beeb sneaks in much censorship-by-omission ( such as in yesterday’s Dr.Moseley shocker on Porton Down ) but the Basra clusterfeck by Blair seemed accurately portrayed. Wonder if chilcot will concur?

        • DomesticExtremist

          I’m watching it now – finding it very ambiguous indeed.
          No appearance from Rory Stewart yet.
          Rolling the pitch for the Chilcott whitewash.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

    Is it conceivable that a Labour administration under Mr Corbyn – which would surely be an ardent defender of public services (rightly so) – might ever act to outlaw strike action in essential public services such as health, education and transport on the basis that such strike action would potentially damage not only the public services themselves but also millions of ordinary workers which depend on them?

  • George Eliot

    On Channel 4 News tonight. Michael Crick said that ALL Labour MEPs signed a letter calling for Jeremy Corbyn to resign. This was not true – it was only a majority. Several MEPs including Claud Moraes did not sign – as Michael Crick could and should have established.

    Secondly an interview was featured with Nicolas Turner of Battersea Labour Party which implied he was representative of changing Labour opinion. Turner is a member of the virulently anti-Corbyn Progress organisation, something he advertises on his Twitter profile. Michael Crick must have known this.

  • Ba'al Zevul's Spamfiltered Sock

    I see Tom Watson has ruled out standing. Actually, he should commit hara-kiri because as deputy leader = as he himself acknowledges – it was his job to reconcile the warring factions, and he couldn’t.

    • nevermind

      Watson is constantly in JC face, he should be ashamed of his connivance with these plotters who have sold their souls to a murderous and unrepentant psychopath.

    • deepgreenpuddock

      Do you really think Tom Watson was trying to reconcile? I think he is useless and not just in that way. I don’t doubt a lot could be said about his role in the whole affair.

      • Ba'al's Spamfiltered Sock

        That was the story in the last interview I heard from him – BBC radio interview, hence the Authorised Version. Probably he accepted the job after consulting with the Blairites on the best way to drag Corbyn into the ranks of the True Believers, which would be a valid translation of ‘reconciliation’ in this context. But, as you say, he’s useless.

  • BrianPowell

    We said throughout the Ind Referendum there were Blue Tories and Red Tories. They tried to ridicule this, there they are, those 172.

    • MJ

      I don’t think anyone ridiculed it though many may have ignored it on the grounds that it was stating the bleedin’ obvious.

    • bevin

      In Canada for many years the Tory party included a left wing which was known as the Red Tory faction. It supported “one nation” policies, including protecting industry and Trade unions, it supported state intervention in the economy and strong public services. It supported environmental controls and regarded businessmen as dangerously prone antisocial greed. Finally it fought hard to resist US pressures, particularly in foreign policy.

      It differed, that is to say, in almost every respect from the Blairite faction which has no principles apart from a refusal to oppose neo-liberal economics and Washington foreign policy. What unites its members is, at best a lack of imagination (I can see no alternatives) and, most often a shameless, narcisisstic pursuit of personal financial and social goals.
      Red they ain’t. And they are worse than Tories.

      • Ba'al's Spamfiltered Sock

        The identifier you are reaching for is ‘Brown (nosed) Floaters.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    This has simply got to be the most interesting week in politics since I saw Harold Wilson stand on a Fruitbox (it was not a soapbox) in Oldham Outdoor Market in The Summer of 64 (No I am not Bryan Adams).

    Oldham won it for Labour – their first time they were in Government since before I was born. They won by about 4 seats.

    So Voting Makes a Difference Again Now.

    Democracy has made a comeback.

    I didn’t think it would happen again in my lifetime.

    Well Done for Voting – even my Son Voted – First time in His Life.

    We are making Progress.


    • Mick McNulty

      I think another reason the establishment fear Jeremy Corbyn, and although I’ve not heard anything about it there may be mutterings in the Labour Party, is if he is ever elected PM he may call an inquiry into the deaths of the disabled under IDS, Cameron and the Tory Party – not forgetting the shameful role of their Lib-Dem partners, New Labour abstainers and the private sector who enabled this eugenics programme.

      I think some very unsavoury internal documents will surface from each party involved. Words which will be described as “unfortunate” and “ill-advised” and such. Words and ideas reminiscent of 1930s Germany.

      • Mick McNulty

        ETA. They should be scared, all of them, because we’re coming for them. Even if it takes us forty-odd years. Our grandfathers didn’t fight and die in WWII to let them introduce their own Aktion T4. All for money.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

    I’m currently reading Paul Mason’s latest, aka “Postcapitalism – A guide to our future” (sorry to sound like Lysias, btw!).

    I am sure that there must be a couple of people on here who are personally acquainted with Mr Mason and who would know hos to get in touch with him.

    Would they please get in touch with him and, for the case that Mr Mason’s publishers are considering a further impression of his book, draw his attention to the beginning of a sentence on page 226 (Penguin Books, 2016)?

    That beginning reads: “Hayek’s collaborator, LSE Professor Harold Robbins, complained that….”.

    M Mason will know what to do.

    Thank you.

    • bevin

      Harold Robbins. That really is funny. It gives one an idea, I suspect a Freudian would say. of what goes in in Mr Mason’s brain, though.

      • lysias

        I recently confused Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, the chief prosecutor at Nuremberg and thus one of the fathers of contemporary international law, with Senator Henry Jackson, the senator from Boeing and original neoconservative, who gave a start to the careers of such dubious figures as Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliot Abrams, and Douglas Feith.

        • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

          Thank you for that clarification, Lysias – but I must confess I hadn’t noticed 🙂

      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        Is my understanding that Mr Mason is a good friend of “Professor” Yannis Varoufakis correct?

        It seems that the good “Professor” has completely vanished from the radar screen in Greece. Indeed, his name is only ever mentioned as an imprecation against SYRIZA.

        • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

          I did say the radar screen, Lysias.

          If you were a former USAF officer rather than a former US Navy officer ( 🙂 ) you would know that radar is not very good at picking up very low-flying objects

    • Tony_0pmoc

      Habbabkuk (la vita e’ bella!) ,

      I’m confused now, are you trying to flog a book – hey – I don’t mind a few ads – or actually giving some useful information?

      By the way – we don’t want to get rid of Capitalism – we are quite happy with its fundamentals…I really like it when my son who runs his own company gets paid by his customers, cos then he can pay his bills and – he is then less likely to scrounge a fiver from me or his mum.

      We just want to get rid of you bloody Neocons. You are even Worse Than The Trotskyites and NAZI’s

      Come own up – I know where the Neocons have come from….They are just a bunch of Left Wing Trots – who Rebadged Themselves Right Wing Neocons

      The Yanks never even saw them coming – stupid bastards…but I think they are beginning to twig..a bit behind us British – but that’s normal.

      You guys are in deep shit.


      • Habbabkuk (la vita e' bella!)

        Thanks for that, Opmoc. But who are the “we” in your second para?

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