No rational person could blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit. So why are the Blairites moving against Corbyn now, with such precipitate haste?
The answer is the Chilcot Report. It is only a fortnight away, and though its form will be concealed by thick layers of establishment whitewash, the basic contours of Blair’s lies will still be visible beneath. Corbyn had deferred to Blairite pressure not to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for the Iraq War until Chilcot is published.
For the Labour Right, the moment when Corbyn as Labour leader stands up in parliament and condemns Blair over Iraq, is going to be as traumatic as it was for the hardliners of the Soviet Communist Party when Khruschev denounced the crimes of Stalin. It would also destroy Blair’s carefully planned post-Chilcot PR strategy. It is essential to the Blairites that when Chilcot is debated in parliament in two weeks time, Jeremy Corbyn is not in place as Labour leader to speak in the debate. The Blairite plan is therefore for the parliamentary party to depose him as parliamentary leader and get speaker John Bercow to acknowledge someone else in that fictional position in time for the Chilcot debate, with Corbyn remaining leader in the country but with no parliamentary status.
Yes, they are that nuts.
If the fault line for the Tories is Europe, for Labour it is the Middle East. Those opposing Corbyn are defined by their enthusiasm for bombing campaigns that kill Muslim children. And not only by the UK. Both of the first two to go, Hilary Benn and Heidi Alexander, are hardline supporters of Israel.
This was Benn the week before his celebrated advocacy of bombing Syria:
Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn told a Labour Friends of Israel (LFI) lunch yesterday that relations with Israel must be based on cooperation and rejected attempts to isolate the country.
Addressing senior party figures in Westminster, Benn praised Israel for its “progressive spirit, vibrant democracy, strong welfare state, thriving free press and independent judiciary.” He also called Israel “an economic giant, a high-tech centre, second only to the United States. A land of innovation and entrepreneurship, venture capital and graduates, private and public enterprise.”
Consequently, said Benn, “Our future relations must be built on cooperation and engagement, not isolation of Israel. We must take on those who seek to delegitimise the state of Israel or question its right to exist.”
Heidi Alexander actually signed, as a 2015 parliamentary candidate, the “We Believe in Israel” charter, the provisions of which state there must be no boycotts of Israel, and Israel must not be described as an apartheid state.
This fault line is very well defined. The manufactured row about “anti-Semitism” in the Labour Party shows exactly the same split. In my researches, 100% of those who have promoted accusations of anti-Semitism were supporters of the Iraq War and/or had demonstrable links to professional pro-Israel lobby groups. 100% of those accused of anti-Semitism were active opponents of the Iraq War. Never underestimate the Blairite fury at being shown not just to be liars but to be wrong. Iraq is their Achilles heel and they are extremely touchy about it.
No rational person would believe Brexit was Jeremy Corbyn’s fault. No rational person would believe that now is a good moment for the Labour Party to tear itself apart. Extraordinarily, the timing is determined by Chilcot.
I believe Jeremy corbin should not bough to pressure from the Blairites to resign as he is the one to lead us to victory
Jeremy Corbyn remains indestructible
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/indestructible-even-with-the-blood-of-brexit-on-his-hands-7103006.html
And unlike Craig, the man has a brain:
“We have to move beyond the irresponsible debate that we sometimes have, that makes people afraid, or that accuses people of being Little Englanders or racists just for raising the issue,” he said, wisely sensing that it’s wrong to just nod along with someone when they make this very point, then get back in your car without realising you’re still wearing your TV mic and call them a bigoted woman.”
Why doesn’t Craig have a brain, you might ask…
The EU organizes a section of the international ruling class, not the working class. As Trotsky once wrote in another context, a brake cannot be used as an accelerator. There are no EU-wide political parties or trade unions or movements.
I’ll repeat that in case it’s too difficult to understand…
There are no EU-wide political parties or trade unions or movements.
Wrong. Check Yanis Varoufakis’ Democracy in Europe Movement (Diem25).
http://diem25.org
Basic thesis is that weak, ineffectual links between nationally based parties in the EU are outmoded. What’s needed is a single pan-EU movement which links up progressives from all parties. It provides infrastructure to enable the Euro left to be more effective in struggling for transparency and democracy into the EU?
EU will either disintegrate or be democratised. DIem gives EU 10 years to achieve it’s goal.
Podemo a is keen on this project as is Die Linke and others in Germany.
podemo a just won 25% of vote in Spanishe elections.
Sorry about typos. I detest these f***ing tablets.
Fred June 26, 2016 at 10:20
@Craig “No rational person could blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit.”
“I think the rational behind people’s thinking is that Jeremy Corbyn has a history of being anti-Europe…”
……………………………………………………………………
Could you back-up that assertion Fred?
Jeremy Corbyn was elected Labour leader by a large margin yet the Blairites want that democratic vote overturned.
The EU referendum returned a victory for Brexit (I voted to remain). Now the remain campaigners want to change the rules retrospectively to overturn that democratic vote.
“Could you back-up that assertion Fred?”
Yes.
Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the EU in 75, he voted against the Maastricht Treaty, he voted against the Lisbon Treaty and he has made many speeches criticising the EU.
He’s always been anti-Europe right up to becoming party leader.
How might you regard a second referendum to make everything all right again, Fred?
As undemocratic. The people have spoken, their decision must be respected as how much I despise them.
Good man.
Thanks, fred, for the admirable admission that you ‘despise’ ‘the people’.
How about fact that 2.2 m Brits in EU and 3m EU citizens in UK were barred from voting in referendum?
Gerrymandered or what?
Re-run referendum.
Should have been at lleast two thirds majority on such major issue.
The people may have spoken, but even they don’t actually know what they have said.
Some leave voters voted for access to the single market but not being in the EU. Some voted for a complete break and WTO rules. Some voted for a Brexit on terms to support workers, whereas others want to tear up workers’ protections in favour of the corporate class.
Now, some of those who want the single market may prefer full membership to WTO rules. Some of those who want a Brexit for workers might prefer full membership to a Brexit for the corporates.
Full membership would almost certainly outpoll any individual alternative, even though it could not outpoll a fantasy alternative where everyone could just imagine the Brexit they liked best.
Just like there is probably a majority in this country against First Past The Post, but when pitted specifically against AV, as opposed to any of the many other options, FPTP won.
And that is before we address the buyers’ remorse that so many Brexit voters now seem to be experiencing.
So no, it is not as simple as saying there is a democratic mandate for Brexit, because there is no democratic mandate for any specific version of Brexit.
I don’t know how to resolve this conundrum. Before the vote, I was arguing that no referendum should be held until there was a specific alternative to vote on, for precisely this reason.
But it seriously adds to the complexity of what is or is not a democratic way forward from this point.
I like him more and more, not because I’m anti European, but because the EU is anti European.
Have you ever studied the Maastricht and Lisbon Treaties, Fred?
They wrote into European Union law, the economic principles of what we nostalgically refer to as Thatcherism, aka neoliberalism, the same ideology that brought us the Great Crash of 2008, and the parlous route that created and led up to it.
Corbyn was correct in his stance of opposition to them, as any sensible Labour MP would be.
When he became Labour party leader, he accepted his responsibility to promote official party policy, and did so. The failure of the media to cover him with respect and sufficient and proper time was their decision, not his. He did his job. They denied the public their right to adequately hear his voice.
Ludus57,
Many thanks for making the valid point that neoliberalism is backed into the Lisbon Treaty, and yes one has read it being it was part of my job to understand its implications on financial regulation.
Despite taking much flak, anyone who’s opposed in principle to neoliberalism and claims to be of the Left had a duty to show solidarity with peers across the EU 28 member states and vote ‘OUT’, which is what this left-winger did and he has no regret for doing so given the EU as it stands today has zero respect for democracy, same as the UK Establishment.
Many of the heterodox economists I knock around with were split on the issue of this Referendum with a minority advocating ‘OUT’. Unlike Bojo et al I stand by this principled decision and am proud my own country Wales rejected the neoliberalism that has caused us great pain and hardship in many of our communities.
As for the London talking heads and anti-democrats, the fact remains the people have spoken and that the Establishment does not like its opinion makes it all the more so valid.
As for the Labour neocons and neoliberals, join the Tory Remain Party with your peers, for fact remains these fuckers are not Labour, they are carpetbaggers and career politicians detested by many, among them this old bugger.
Corbyn and McDonnell, like myself, have recently been influenced by Yanis Varoufakis who argues that Brexit will accelerate the disintegration of EU in a disorderly, chaotic manner that will lead to a ‘post-modern 1930s’. Just as Brexit has been a massive boost to the far right in UK (over 50% rise in racist attacks since Friday), so a chaotic disintegration will massively boost the continental European far right leading to a repeat of the 1930s and possibly the even more tragic forties too.
Ken Loach in his speech at Cannes endorsed this view and argued that though the EU is undoubtedly a neoliberal straitjacket, being in favour of IN or OUT is almost a ‘tactical decision’ for the left and on balance it makes more sense for it to organise as movement at the pan-EU level to fight to make the EU more transparent and the EU parliament more fully democratic. Varoufakis suggests that his Democracy in Europe Movement (DiEM25) launch a lively coordinated pan-EU campaign of civil disobedience to achieve its goals.
This also the thinking of Corbyn and even more so McDonnell and explains the change in voting tactics.
Anon1
June 26, 2016 at 10:23
“Why wasn’t the “man of principles” campaigning for us to leave the EU, something he has wanted his entire political life?”
………………………………………………..
Not true Anon 1.
I suppose you are a Brexiteer though.
““Why wasn’t the “man of principles” campaigning for us to leave the EU, something he has wanted his entire political life?”
I’m not sure. Do you feel that this is a good time to line up with the Remaindered NewLabour MPS? Or do you favour the return of British sovereignty?
And if you do, as do I, do you wish to reclaim it all? To bid goodbye to the US bases, to withdraw from a US commanded NATO, to rein in the colonial remnants being used to avoid taxation in Britain and other countries where the rich rob the poor then insist that they finance the state that oppresses them?
The context is crucial here.
Yes in principle one can oppose the EU on the basis that it is neoliberal monstrosity. However, once the Leave campaign made anti-migrant racism the key issue the task was to defeat the kind of violent fascist cretinism that led to Jo Cox’s murder..
This vote was far from being an isolated incident. It is part of a world wide revulsion against neo-liberals, austerity and, above all, a ruling class which has deluded itself into believing that it can use propaganda for every purpose. It no longer bothers to attempt to buy or curry favour with the people, it no longer bothers to conceal its use of the state mechanisms to line its pockets and make its friends wealthier.
But this was a very important part of the movement: what happens in Britain is still important. And what happens in the sovereign state which governs the City of London-the Oligarchs’ capital where the stolen wealth of every republic in the old USSR; the post colonial pickings of the kleptocrats who run such places as Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and the Gulf states and the wealth of half the tyrants in the rest of the world are ‘invested’ (to use an old fashioned word).
What matters is not what Podemos wants, regarding the EU, or what Yanis Varoufakis thinks about the possibilities of reforming the EU. What matters is that they are calling for radical change, progressive taxation, strict control over the finance industry, egalitarian social policies and dissociating their countries from subservience to US imperialism. Their EU talk is merely tactical. They are, of course, for European solidarity and for a closer union between working people. So are all socialists. But that is not what the EU ever has been about.
What makes the current moment very important is that, behind the coup against Corbyn is the necessity to bail out the banks again: to add a few more trillions in promises to pay from taxpayers for generations to come to the trillions given the banks in 2008. That is what comes next: the British voters have been very naughty. Untold crates of Champagne and marinas full of yachts are now at risk. Tommy and his Mrs must pay the bill.
It is no accident that a hundred years ago the ruling class despatched tens of thousands of Tommies- from Adelaide to Newfoundland, from Derry to Dungeness to their death, without giving the matter a second thought. The callousness and the stupidity of Britain’s rulers and is hatred and contempt for those who, in Cobbett’s phrase “Do all the work and the fighting” is a permanent exhibit. You just have to think about it.
A brilliant post. Thank you.
Fine words but only a tiny fraction of those who voted to leave would agree with you or even have a clue what you mean. This was primarily a support for Ukip. They have little in common with any of your aspirations. To put it plainly you are barking up the completely wrong tree.
@DavidW, You forgot to add that this was just your personal opinion, and based on what ?
Extensive polling ? A feeling in your water ?
On that note, Varoufakis and Chomsky, New York Public Library:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szIGZVrSAyc
Varoufakis and Mark Blythe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMk6aVsl8Rs
So what should the UK have done in 1914?
So what should the UK have done in 1914?
Shot you at birth?
Here’s a prediction: there will be a general election in October or November. Corbyn will win it easily. The powers that be will stage yet another false flag and there will be martial law.
It’s then up to the people to understand what’s really happening.
The only element of the above which might happen is a general election, the rest is wishful thinking.
The recent flurry of pro-Brexit posts seems to reveal yet another disconnect between the majority of posters on CM and the man in the street.
On the one hand, I have no doubt that the vast majority of those in the British electorate who voted for the UK to leave did so in the honest belief that leaving would be in the best interests of the country (and, I imagine, of themselves as individuals).
On the other, there is a remarkable correlation between most of the pro-Brexiteers who have posted on here (there are some honorable exceptions) and those posters who – on the evidence of their previous posts on other subjects – appear to wish, either overtly or in more concealed fashion, Britain nothing but ill.
Ah so you have identified posters on this blog that wish Britain ill. What a pity you have chosen not to devote your time to an examination the motives of supranational organizations. These would be the entities capable of actually inflicting harm – whereas I suspect not many people who post on this blog have much in the way of capability for inflicting harm.
Let us briefly recapitulate the actions of the EU/NATO. These would be the organizations who found it necessary to persuade Germany to send a contingent of armor to the Baltic states in order to deter Russian aggression. They were very keen that this armor was seen to move on June 22nd – which coincidentally happened to be the 75th anniversary of the Nazi invasion of the USSR.
Is it really possible that anyone would consider this a defensive measure as opposed to a provocative measure.
Is it really possible that anyone can see benefits in the EU that outweigh their propensity for provoking war?
I was not aware that the EU had “provoked any wars” to date, Loony.
As for the identification of posters on here who wish Britain ill, I have to admit that the task is not difficult. It is enough to read their comments. I hope you are not one of them?
Do you believe that sending German tanks into the Baltic states served any defensive purpose beyond that which could have been achieved by sending those tanks on a day other than June 22nd. If so, what was that purpose?
Do stop being so silly, Loony.
BTW, I ascribe no importance whatsoever to that date in the context in which you have brought it up. But I admit that a Putinista would.
The Baltic states are well aware of the significance of that date.
And?
I did not solicit your opinion as to whether you ascribed significance to the date of June 22nd.
I asked whether you were aware of any defensive purpose served by sending German tanks into the Baltic states on June 22nd over and above that which could have been achieved on a different date, say June 21st or June 23rd for example.
Once again it would appear that reading is not one of your stronger points. Perhaps you might find the following helpful
http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/adult_literacy/adult_literacy_help
Never heard of Libya, Habbachuck? Or should I say the ruins of Libya.
The disconnect is between the persons in the street and the cosseted and totally out-of-touch political class, surely.
How about our man in Jerusalem, Jonathan Cook?
Brexit and the diseased liberal mind
26 June 2016
The enraged liberal reaction to the Brexit vote is in full flood. The anger is pathological – and helps to shed light on why a majority of Britons voted for leaving the European Union, just as earlier a majority of Labour party members voted for Jeremy Corbyn as leader.
A few years ago the American writer Chris Hedges wrote a book he titled the Death of the Liberal Class. His argument was not so much that liberals had disappeared, but that they had become so coopted by the right wing and its goals – from the subversion of progressive economic and social ideals by neoliberalism, to the ethusiastic embrace of neonservative doctrine in prosecuting aggressive and expansionist wars overseas in the guise of “humanitarian intervention” – that liberalism had been hollowed out of all substance.
Liberal pundits sensitively agonise over, but invariably end up backing, policies designed to benefit the bankers and arms manufacturers, and ones that wreak havoc domestically and abroad. They are the “useful idiots” of modern western societies.
Reading this piece on the fallout from Brexit by Zoe Williams, a columnist who ranks as leftwing by the current standards of the deeply diminished Guardian, one can isolate this liberal pathology in all its sordid glory.
Here is a revealing section, written by a mind so befuddled by decades of neoliberal orthodoxy that it has lost all sense of the values it claims to espouse:
There is a reason why, when Marine le Pen and Donald Trump congratulated us on our decision, it was like being punched in the face – because they are racists, authoritarian, small-minded and backward-looking. They embody the energy of hatred. The principles that underpin internationalism – cooperation, solidarity, unity, empathy, openness – these are all just elements of love.
One wonders where in the corridors of the EU bureaucracy Williams identifies that “love” she so admires. Did she see it when the Greeks were being crushed into submission after they rebelled against austerity policies that were themselves a legacy of European economic policies that had required Greece to sell off the last of its family silver?
Is she enamoured of this internationalism when the World Bank and IMF go into Africa and force developing nations into debt-slavery, typically after a dictator has trashed the country decades after being installed and propped up with arms and military advisers from the US and European nations?
What about the love-filled internationalism of Nato, which has relied on the EU to help spread its military tentacles across Europe close to the throat of the Russian bear? Is that the kind of cooperation, solidarity and unity she was thinking of?
Williams then does what a lot of liberals are doing at the moment. She calls for subversion of the democratic will:
The anger of the progressive remain side, however, has somewhere to go: always suckers for optimism, we now have the impetus to put aside ambiguity in the service of clarity, put aside differences in the service of creativity. Out of embarrassment or ironic detachment, we’ve backed away from this fight for too long.
That includes seeking the ousting of Jeremy Corbyn, of course. “Progressive” Remainers, it seems, have had enough of him. His crime is that he hails from “leftwing aristocracy” – his parents were lefties too, apparently, and even had such strong internationalist principles that they first met at a committee on the Spanish civil war.
But Corbyn’s greater crime, according to Williams, is that “he is not in favour of the EU”. It would be too much trouble for her to try and untangle the knotty problem of how a supreme internationalist like Corbyn, or Tony Benn before him, could be so against the love-filled EU. So she doesn’t bother.
We will never know from Williams how a leader who supports oppressed and under-privileged people around the world is cut from the same cloth as racists like Le Pen and Trump. That would require the kind of “agile thinking” she accuses Corbyn of being incapable of. It might hint that there is a leftwing case quite separate from the racist one – even if Corbyn was not allowed by his party to advocate it – for abandoning the EU. (You can read my arguments for Brexit here and here.)
But no, Williams assures us, Labour needs someone with much more recent leftwing heritage, someone who can tailor his or her sails to the prevailing winds of orthodoxy. And what’s even better, there is a Labour party stuffed full of Blairities to choose from. After all, their international credentials have been proven repeatedly, including in the killing fields of Iraq and Libya.
And here, wrapped into a single paragraph, is a golden nugget of liberal pathology from Williams. Her furious liberal plea is to rip up the foundations of democracy: get rid of the democratically elected Corbyn and find a way, any way, to block the wrong referendum outcome. No love, solidarity, unity or empathy for those who betrayed her and her class.
There hasn’t been a more fertile time for a Labour leader since the 1990s. The case for a snap general election, already strong, will only intensify over the coming weeks. As the sheer mendacity of the leave argument becomes clear – it never intended to curb immigration, there will be no extra money for the NHS, there was no plan for making up EU spending in deprived areas – there will be a powerful argument for framing the general election as a rematch. Not another referendum, but a brake on article 50 and the next move determined by the new government. If you still want to leave the EU, vote Conservative. If you’ve realised or knew already what an act of vandalism that was, vote Labour.
Alan,
Many thanks for this, just been over to Cook’s site and read his latest stuff – he’s erudite and one of us, only wish I could write like him.
I’m sure you’re right, Craig. That would also explain Alistair Campbell emerging from the woodwork today to warn of Labour’s “existential threat”, despite the fact that Labour have been handsomely winning by-elections.
But it’s all so nakedly opportunist by the newspapers to distract from their hero Cameron’s abject failure and the Labour Party to install a Blairite that I can’t see it working. Corbyn seems to be made of sterner stuff.
“I’m sure you’re right, Craig. ”
I’m equally sure that a man who spent his youth crawling his way to the heights of an FCO ambassador must be some kind of imperialist, no matter how loudly he protests otherwise.
They tried to tell me – there is no way it will work…it simply cannot be done that fast…
Oh yeh – well nearly all our friends – have forgotten their political differences…
well us blokes have – despite our political differences
and we were just kind of watching the girls – us blokes didn’t day a word..
And we thought oh shit – there maybe a cat fight breaking out here
I was of course on my wife’s side
Looks like We are all friends again.
so we weren’t disunited for that long
What a Brilliant Band today – They also did This..
“The Cranberries – Zombie”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts
Love & Peace,
Tony xx
Well said Craig.
Labour Friends of Ethnic Cleansing are on the warpath against Labour’s Palestine solidarity activists. In vain. ‘Vote of Confidence in Corbyn’ petition is about to hit 200,000 in 48 hours. Momentum is calling for protest at Commons tomorrow (Monday).
https://www.facebook.com/events/1754368201514480/
BTW, my browser spell checker just suggested a correction for my typo of word ‘Labour’. The suggestion was ‘Balfour’!
That petition is currently adding about thirty signatures per minute. About 192,000 so far.
you can petition your arse off but the fact of the matter is that us working class British told all The Cunts To Fuck OFF including all the piggin’ troughers in Westminster and The Germans – and The Americans…
Get Used To It – You Slow Ones
THE UK is OUT of THE EU
We Voted For INDEPENDANCE
Get used to It
We Do Not Like You Controlling FASCISTS
Go and Do One You CUNTS
Tony xx
Not the petition for a second referendum Tony, the one supporting Corbyn.
“THE UK is OUT of THE EU”
Not yet it isn’t and won’t be until it invokes Article 50. Cameron said he was going to do this on Friday morning but he resigned instead, leaving the key task undone. This is a rather troubling oversight. It’s not over till the fat lady sings.
“Not yet it isn’t and won’t be until it invokes Article 50. Cameron said he was going to do this on Friday morning but he resigned instead, leaving the key task undone. This is a rather troubling oversight. It’s not over till the fat lady sings.”
So what, in your demented mind, do you imagine is about to happen? The Tories remain in power, and whoever takes over from Cameron has to trigger Article 50. It’s a weekend, and nothing is going to get done until Monday. When are you going to join the real world?
I don’t know if it has been mentioned earlier, but I’ve seen David Millibands name mentioned as the non contested candidate for the seat of the late Jo Cox.
The leader in waiting?
Naw, Hillary has a job lined up for him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/29/david-miliband-to-be-given-top-us-government-job-if-hillary-clin/
I missed that, thanks. It’s really illustrative of the very close interconnection between Blair Inc. and the Clintons. Ask not what DM has actually done for his £425K salary (+ exes). We still seem to have some refugees here and there, many as a result of his policies. I don’t think he needs to go back through the revolving door. If the Yanks need a cute Brit accent in the chambers of the mighty, Dave will be their man. On, say, a mil?
Plenty of folding green anyway. Who’d come back to the UK with the opportunity to bury their snout in the trough next to Bill and Hillary? I bet they’re great company.
It’s been floated. However, last time the Batley and Spen shortlist was all-woman, and ultra-Blairite D.Miliband would only be selected over Corbyn’s twitching corpse. He may be in the frame to replace Corbyn, but they’ll have to get rid of Corbyn first. Quite apart from which, Miliband is currently earning far more than even the PM pulls down, from the charity industry. I reckon he’ll stay in New York, continue promoting himself (Trowbridge, he’s at 92Y with Madeleine Albright on Tuesday, the day after the grand blairing), and aspire eventually be an international vulture, like Blair.
It ill becomes lefty loonies (and even Loonies) to complain that a second Brexit referendum would be “subverting the will of the British people” when that “will” was absent in two of the constituent parts of the UK and when it was representedby well under half of the eligible electorate in England.
And these are the same lefty loonies (or even Loonies) who are forever complaining that the Conservative govt has no legitimacy because only about a third of the eligible electorate voted for it!
YCNMIU 🙂
Your argument applies equally well to every UK election for the last twenty years. The terms and conditions of the referendum were clearly set out beforehand. The dice were cast, double six came up, your counter landed on Go To Jail, and now you want them rolled again?
The EU referendum was constructed on the basis of a single national plebiscite with the result being determined on the basis of 50%+1.
As I have already explained to you the validity of the result is not effected that constituent parts of the nation delivered a different preference to the overall national preference. Equally the result is not effected by voter participation – the only test is that all voters were given an equal right and equal opportunity to vote.
The legitimacy of the current Conservative government is not effected by the aggregate number of people that voted for it. All that is relevant is that they won sufficient seats to form a government.
I understand that the Electoral Commission is investigating some 29 Conservative held Parliamentary seats, where there is some suggestion that the Conservative Party may have breached electoral law. Should these allegations prove to have substance then various constitutional issues may arise. These issues may be of help to those who appear keen on challenging the outcome of the referendum.
In theory, and subject to a range of variables, it may be possible to argue that all actions undertaken by the Conservative government which were only capable of being undertaken due to its Parliamentary majority were actions that should not have been undertaken. Clearly not all of those actions will be capable of reversal. Whilst some may be reversible it will not be in the public interest to reverse them. The position could become both complex and divisive – no doubt grist to the mill for the anarchists in our midst.
“The legitimacy of the current Conservative government is not effected by the aggregate number of people that voted for it. All that is relevant is that they won sufficient seats to form a government.”
____________________
If that is the case, will you and other extreme lefties finally stop bitching on about the present govt having no legitimacy?
A little consistency, please. 🙂
It is not yet illegal for people to be “Lefties” of any kind at all, in case you hadn’t noticed. If you have any relevant info regarding if and when this will change-perhaps you could inform us. Thanking you in anticipation.
Straw man argument.
Whilst deploring foolishness I would not seek to outlaw it even if that were possible.
It is of little surprise to see an anarchist resort to outright lies.
I have never expressed the view that the Conservative government has no legitimacy. I have however, pointed out that a number of Conservative held seats are under investigation for possible breaches of electoral law. The outcome of this investigation may have a bearing on the legitimacy of the Government. This would apply to any government in similar circumstances irrespective of its political complexion.
A weasel argument, I think.
Not uncommon amoung the extreme left, of course.
So telling the truth is a “weasel argument” Smearing people for telling the truth is an interesting strategy. Chiefly interesting for its complete detachment from both reason and logic
I have little knowledge of the extreme left – but as your brand of anarchism would appear a long way to the left of the extreme left I am happy to rely on your advice with regard to the extreme left and their attachment to the truth.
The EU “second go” petition has been somewhat neutered by allegations of fraud. The only other petition that had substantial numbers of votes removed was one that proposed a vote of no confidence in Cameron. 77,000 signatures have been nuked. Of course the petition system itself is flawed so it is hardly surprising that any petition will contain dodgy signatures, but I find it slightly odd that only these two have hit the news. A sure way to put people off voting is to declare the votes fraudulent. Clever move by the committee overseeing the petition. Not saying it was a deliberate ploy or anything. God forbid. Surely not. Just thinking aloud.
On another subject, why did the Labour shadow ministers choose this weekend to resign on account of Corbyn’s “half-hearted” campaign? They had several weeks to contact him and chivvy up the campaign before it was too late. Incidentally, what steps did all those resigning shadow cabinet MPs do to advance the cause? I didn’t see much of them promoting Remain either. They were too busy plotting.
Chris Bryant, Karl Turner, Vernon Coaker, Gloria de Piero and Lilian Greenwood in particular have got some bloody nerve. Their own constituencies voted to Leave, as far as I can discover, so I don’t know what they’re lecturing Corbyn about. They should be sacking themselves as MPs if it’s as important an election test as that. Hilary Benn hasn’t much to shout about either. His constituency gave a magnificent vote of Remain confidence of 50.3%.
Indeed. Corbyn increased his vote in Islington North by 3.3% and 5.8% in the last two elections. Islington got 76,420 Remain votes to 25,180 Leave votes, a huge majority, so Corbyn has, locally, done far better than all of the MPs who now say his campaign was half-hearted. I concede Islington was always a strong Remain area but nonetheless, his constituency vote over many years would be the envy of all those who are now plotting to remove him.
I didn’t think to check that out. Thanks.
JSD,
Vermin the lot of them – so lets get rolling with de-selection for if they want civil war, lets give it to them with both barrels.
I get the feeling that the ultra-right-wing impostors within Labour, whom ought to have been dismissed long ago for dragging the party through lots of dirt and undermining its reputation, would also have blamed Corbyn if Britain had voted to remain. It does sound as if Craig’s explanation is a reasonable one. At any rate, it is good riddance to the toxic garbage that has resigned or been sacked. But who will fill the boots?
I saw the American Kerry on the telly, he kept going on about “we” with regard to the United Kingdom Referendum, I couldn’t understand what he was on about but he was giving the impression it was something to do with him/America.
Why would he imagine it has anything to do with him?
Where did this term left loonies come from? The only loonies I see are the ones unthinkingly using such terms, never mind the Tories and Liberal Democrats, and Labour members before Corbyn. What is loony about a struggle for some modicum of peace and equality every now and then? What strikes me as loony is the way we have just accepted that permanent war and inequality should be the status quo. How much do trolls get paid? It must be quite a bit for them to devote their life to looniness and accusations of looniness.
“Where did this term left loonies come from?”
__________________
Perhaps from people similar to those who call the Conservatives “fascists”?
If you are a Rightwing psychopath (forgive the redundancy) and possess no human empathy or compassion, see other humans as the enemy, and are insatiably greedy, utterly unscrupulous and prone to violence, those on the Left who are your polar opposites will, indeed, seem mad.
This is helpful for those of us with a bit of brain a lot of human decency but who are not aware of all the political intrigues – you’re certainly spot on.
Am hopeful that Jeremy will not fall for that fall on his sword trick and that he will keep going strong.
How can this blog’s supporters of a second Scottish independence referendum (because “circumstances have changed”) be against a second referendum in Brexit when the outcome of the Article 50 Brexit negotiations will be known?
Apples & pears; Scottish independence referendum was carried out in the context of remaining a part of a Great Britain that was itself part of the EU, the fact that Scotland as a whole voted against BREXIT shows that this EU membership was/is a major consideration and so would have`played a significant factor in the original Scottish independence referendum, therefore it is only logical & fair for a second referendum now.
Trying to argue that second BREXIT referendum is warranted because of the negotiation process initiated by the result of the original BREXIT is a endless loop logical fallacy favoured only by either fools or knaves !
All this “discussion” about Mr Jeremy Corbyn impells me – alas! – to have to repeat, once again:
!/. A Labour Party led by him is not going to win any general election whether in the autumn of this year or in 2020.
2/. The wild acclamation on here on his election as leader, followed a few months later by the disappointment expressed by the more honest of his erstwhile admirers, demonstrates once more the folly of going a-whorin’ after false gods.
” A Labour Party led by him is not going to win any general election whether in the autumn of this year or in 2020. ”
Sez you…
The bush-cheney-neocons still have a lot of firepower, and a lot of reasons to pre-emptively strike any whisper of war crimes enquiries. Valerie Plame? Be prepared for dirty fighting.
George Osborne to come out of hiding on Monday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36636762
George Osborne will issue a statement early on Monday morning in a bid to calm markets after the surprise Brexit vote triggered turmoil on Friday.
The Chancellor has not spoken publicly since the Leave campaign won Thursday’s referendum.
He will reveal how the Government intended to “protect the national interest” after its referendum defeat.
I suppose that means he has not yet reigned/been sacked.
Surely the little turd must go straight away,
he couldn’t have any credibility left after threatening the whole country with Armageddon
Today’s lesson, pilgrims, is from Judges 6: 27-30
This needs to be much more widely circulated.
Governor Mark Carney said on Friday said the Bank was ready to provide £250bn of additional funds to support financial markets.
Mr Osborne will also need to clarify whether he intends to announce the emergency Budget that he insisted during the referendum campaign would be necessary in the event of Brexit.
He said that £30bn in tax rises and spending cuts would be necessary to compensate for the negative effects of voting to leave.
Michael,
Which demonstrates clearly the UK has unlimited funds as a sovereign money issuing nation to invest in its future, instead they give the funds to finance and force austerity down our throats, much as the EU/ECB do – and yet we are mean’t to vote for these buggers and vote ‘REMAIN’, not fucking likely I’m afraid, at least from this working class Welshman.
Jeremy “Spartan” Corbyn issues his “ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!” moment; 😀
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/76608/full-statement-jeremy-corbyn-tells-labour-rebels
If Corbyn can hold off a leadership contest for a couple of weeks and give Tony Blair what for in the House of Commons over Chilcot then the grass roots will love him. He’ll probably put tens of thousands on his mandate – and he won’t do himself any harm with the public either.
That’s probably what they’re all terrified of.
The problem is that Labour adopted Remain. Corbyn has always been fairly EU-sceptical and as such he was always going to be in trouble. Labour needed to be strong on remain, it was a party line. Its all well and good saying that Jeremy was “with the people” but that’s not what was needed. People will only see a labour loss.
Onto whether he should remain as leader of labour. There will be a general election when Cameron goes, it could well be against Boris. That would be a very winnable election for labour, but not with Corbyn at the helm. Just my opinion.
Very much appreciated ….the recent referendum scenario has been so dishonourable and the sense we have is that Boris is just toying with the voting public for his own aggrandisement. Those who have heard Jeremy Corbyn know him to be a thoughtful and decent man. Perhaps I am naïve but I want a political leader of integrity and I hope he gets to denounce the Blairites in Parliament, though realise that mud will unfortunately probably stick to him too in some peoples minds as the current Labour leader.
I agree about Corbyn but when you are supporting a party line you have to give it 100%, and he didn’t. Whilst he might be a thoroughly decent man, i just don’t think he’s a leader or maybe just not the leader labour need right now.
As Abbot and Costello say “Who’s on first?”
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36633158
I suppose next there’ll be a scrap in the Labour Party over Corbyn only having his own supporters in the Shadow Cabinet!
We might actually see Dennis Skinner in a Shadow Cabinet. I bet he did not expect that. Let’s have him as Shadow Foreign Secretary.
I’m not entirely sure about your thesis, but it’s certainly interesting, and being more and more aware of political skulduggery, I’m not going to argue your point.
In regard to Brexit, I am, like many, disillusioned about the EU’s neoliberal basis and totally dismayed by it’s “fiscal waterboarding” of Greece as Varoufakis so aptly tells it. As an expatriate Brit living in NZ, my natural inclination to leave was tempered by two things, the likelihood of chaos and real hardship for the country and secondly, three daughters who live in the UK who were very keen to stay in the EU. As an old fogey, what right would I have to blight their heartfelt wishes?
As a near Scot myself, with a good clan name and a Scottish ancestry second to none, accidently born in England and not Glasgow, I am though bemused by the Scots’ determination to stay part of the EU. You lose your fishing resources, your agricultural control and if things turn pear-shaped you face an implacable dogma that has reduced Greece to something like Syria with intact buildings. Just what is the attraction of leaving the UK yet continuing a relationship with an institution of such disproportionate size and which is in danger of its own imminent fracture? Can anyone enlighten me?
As the UK political classes embark on frenzy of fratricide and the UK media is discovering racists behind every door things are looking good for the average person.
Demand for an EU exit referendum enjoys popular support of over 50% in both France and Italy.
Popular support for an exit referendum stands at over 40% in Sweden, Poland and Belgium.
There is growing support for similar referendums in Holland, Austria, Finland, Hungary, Portugal and Slovakia,
Germany appears to be rapidly rowing back from its idea that the UK should leave as soon as possible and are now keen on “constructive exit negotiations” and the possibility of offering the UK “associated partner status” is being floated.
All that is necessary for the moment is for the incompetent British political leadership to focus all of its attention on petty infighting and wait to see what kind of proposals the EU produces after negotiating with itself.
Normally having idiots in notional control of the country is a bad idea – but on this occasion it may prove the perfect choice.
Pity Scotland whose somewhat competent politicians may prove its fatal undoing. Sometimes life just isn’t fair.
You have to work with what you have, and a dribbling incompetent leadership may just provide all the leverage needed.
It is a shame Scotland are fairly competent as it means every political programme features Alex Salmond and his love of Nicola Sturgeon.
Loony,
We have a National Assembly in Wales too and it too has a government, one that is not running around like a headless chicken presently, unlike folk in London!
“We have a National Assembly in Wales too and it too has a government, one that is not running around like a headless chicken presently, unlike folk in London!”
Only until the Kinnocks realise they are now out of a job 😉
Alan,
I personally know people who work for the Kinnock family, they actually hide their great wealth from their neighbours pretending to be of average means, despite owning a mansion none of their former constituents could ever dream of owning, this applies to Kinnock Senior and his bastard spawn. They as a family have done well out of the public purse and the EU, but the fact remains they, like the Blairs, are greedy fuckers who sell themselves for COIN. And yet we are supposed to respect them and their opinion whilst they feast on our economic corpse.
Maybe the Spawn of Kinnock
could quickly establish himself as a challenger to J.C.?
I actually think Nu Lab’s opposition to Corbyn has nothing to do with how he feels about Israel, but more to do with a perception on the lack of popularity he has with the general public – probably his character assassination by the tabloid media is much to blame here. Now that it appears there’s a good chance of another election and Boris Johnson being the prime Tory candidate the Blairites probably think that if they replaced Corbyn with someone more ‘conventional’ then they might stand a better chance of gaining the middle ground – as most people do not really take Boris Johnson seriously and would have reservations about him as PM. Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn have something in common as they are not perceived as ‘sensible’ and my guess is that NuLab are looking ahead and thinking of pitching a more corporatized candidate against ‘buffoon’ Boris to give them an edge on their campaign.
And, yeah, I know that’s not fair and it’s pretty facile – but it’s how the world works and how much of society has been effectively brainwashed over the years.
STILL no “leader” rushing forward !
SOMEONE must lead the UK in its break-up !
Who !
Corbyn has offered to invoke Article 50 ASAP and get on with the job, regrettably the Blairites, fearing for all their financial benefits, don’t like this and launch a Palace Coup blaming Corbyn for many of their own constituents voting for Brexit, but its Jeremy’s fault and fuck all to do with the Tories.
Could really not make this shit up, but these are the sad facts.