The Black Stones, and Other Ghosts of Beeston Regis 195


Tens of thousands of people follow this blog, direct and through facebook and twitter. I believe they mostly do so because of the posts I write which present facts the mainstream media elides, or a commentary designed to open up radical ideas for discussion. I am always very grateful that so many people are prepared to consider alternative ways of considering news and politics.

But it is also just an intensely personal blog, where sometimes I work through my own thoughts and experiences in life from a variety of motives, and in the hope that they may strike a chord with some people. Recent events have caused me to think back over my own childhood, and frankly I do not expect this next to be of much interest at all to the large majority of habitual readers. I am recording this because I want the knowledge to survive me, from a feeling that folk tradition is important.

I was looking up the postcode for Beeton Regis church to tell somebody how to get there, and in doing so came across the wikipedia entry for Beeston Regis. It includes this passage:

The strange story of Farmer Reynolds’ stone[edit]

Within the churchyard is a large stone being used to cover a grave. It is approximately 4 feet (1.2 m) long x 2 feet (0.61 m) x 18 inches (460 mm) high, being a rectangular block of granite, with circular depressions on the uppermost surface. On each side is inscribed the names of the grave’s occupants. This is originally one of a pair which stood at either side of a pathway in the yard of the farmhouse, in the grounds of the ruined Beeston Priory. The path itself led to what is now known as the Abbot’s Freshwater Spring Pond.

A local tale says that about 1938–41, when both boulders were in place, a farmer named James Reynolds often drove his horse and cart along this pathway. Several times, a hooded grey ghost would hide behind two boulders and would leap out from behind one of the stones at sunset, and try to grab the horse’s reins before vanishing. This, although terrifying the animals, seems not to have perturbed the man unduly. However, he ordered that the stone in question be laid upon his grave after his death, in an attempt at ‘laying’ the apparition. James Reynolds died in 1941 and, in accordance with his wishes, the boulder now lies atop his grave, his wife Ann Elizabeth also being interred there in 1967. There is no record as to whether or not the ‘exorcism’ was successful, and indeed, a local woman who knew the Reynolds could not confirm the story. The other stone of the pair can now be seen lying against the north wall of the churchyard.

In fact these stones were not originally in any of the places stated. The priory farm had a massive old tithe barn, right on the main Cromer road. The ancient road had become depressed through use below its hedgerows, and there was a grass verge bordering the barn, about a foot high and a couple of feet wide to the road. There in the grass and part embedded in the verge were these two large black granite boulders.

In the early 1960s we used to walk past them twice every day as we walked the mile to and from Sheringham Primary School. Legend was that they were haunted, and that after dark they would roll across to the other side of the road. This was associated with ghosts in some way that was not entirely clear, but linked to the monks of the priory. I therefore recognise the lines of the Wikipedia story. We were always scared walking past them at night and used to run past the spot.

At some point the stones were removed from the highway onto the farm itself – I believe about the time the tithe barn was demolished. At first the façade wall and great wooden doors of the tithe barn were left standing as it was contiguous with the farm wall. By the time the stones were removed from the highway I was either an adult or had an adult understanding, and was angry that these stones – which were an important part of community folklore – had been removed from the highway into the farm, as I was convinced they had been part of the highway and not on land belonging to the farm.

You have to know Norfolk to understand why these boulders had this mystic reputation. There are no boulders in Norfolk. The houses and churches are built out of flint beach pebbles. There is no source of granite for hundreds of miles. A primary school teacher whose name I remember as Donhau explained to 10 year old me that they are glacial erratics, left here by the receding last ice age, and it is undoubtedly true that the North Norfolk ridge is its terminal moraine. He also said that the apparently man made depressions in them were erosion by the ice. All of which makes sense, and it would make even more so if there were anything else remotely like them scattered around. But I see no contradiction between them both being glacial erratics and being used by the local Iceni for the sort of rituals Celts did with stones with depressions elsewhere. If they held the aura they did for the entire local community in 1960, how much more did they 2000 years earlier?

The legend of Black Shuck as recounted on the Wikipedia page is correct, although it misses out the universal belief that if you saw it you would die shortly after. But it misses the legend connected to Orban Beck. This was reputed to be bottomless, and the legend was that at night you could see a horse and cart being driven into it by a dead man. This again I am inclined to suspect was a folk memory of a Celtic chariot burial or ritual.

What I am struggling to explain to you was how, in what was then a very small and tight knit rural community, these legends were part of the everyday reality we lived in. I have been trying and failing to recall how I first learned them, but I think they were passed from child to child rather than taught us by adults, though they certainly were subsequently confirmed to us by adults. Of course they did not believe in them. But nor would they lightly scoff at them.

I am happy I recorded all that – I am still unsure of my own point, but I find the idea that this remembrance is now indelibly out there on the internet strangely reassuring.


195 thoughts on “The Black Stones, and Other Ghosts of Beeston Regis

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  • glenn_uk

    As lads of about 9-10 years old, my good mate and I – as part of our daring-do and general mischief-making – got into an abandoned, boarded up and derelict house. The only light was that which crept through joins in the boards over the windows. We found something in the depths of the house that was exceedingly odd, to say the least.

    It’s always puzzled me, because I’m not given to “beliefs”. In fact, I dismissed it totally years back as something which must have been imagined, because what we saw was simply impossible. Hard to understand how something so very distinctly remembered – even now, crystal clear – could actually be impossible, never happened, but this seemed to be proof of the fact that such imagined memories can exist.

    Disconcertingly, however, I chanced upon the old schoolmate many years after it happened, and just casually dropped into the conversation if he remembered that large, boarded up house at the bottom of a particular street – and if so, did he recall anything that was perhaps a little odd about it?

    He appeared to remember it in precisely the same way as myself. I do distinctly recall that it so frightened us, that after making as efficient an egress as was humanly possible, we had never mentioned it since.

  • John Goss

    I’m with you and Owen Dempsey.

    In most of the stories I’ve heard it was the Devil who jumped out from behind the stones. There’s one I half recollect about a hunchback (sorry not sure of the medical term: perhaps caused by some kind of spinal injury or deformity) taking a shortcut from the pub through the churchyard homewards. On the way an illusory dark character jumps out from behind one of the bigger stones and says:

    “What’s that on your back?”
    “It’s my hump.”
    “I’ll have that.”

    No sooner have these words been spoken than his hump disappears. He’s cured and standing upright the next night in the pub the locals are more than surprised to see him straightbacked as the wheat in the fields, and especially the reticent man in the corner with talipes (no, you’ll have to look it up). The man with a former hunch tells how he’s been cured. So impressed is the man with talipes he abjures all his fears of a dark churchyard and wondering if he can experience a similar cure limps off into the black and eerie grave-shrouded path. For him it is not so much a shortcut as rather a long way home.

    Almost wishing for a phantom to jump out he struggles on. Then his wish suddenly comes into being and the same old Devil jumps out in front of his path.

    “What’s causing that limp of yours?”
    “It’s my club foot.”
    “Well here’s a hump to go with it.”

    Round this neck of the woods we had this famous and very fine type-designer John Baskerville, who despised the church, probably because the church did not approve of him living in sin with Sarah Eaves from Sarehole Mill (a married woman whose husband had deserted her). Baskerville did the honourable thing when Mr Eaves died and married Sarah. When he died himself (1775) his wish was to be buried upright in a former conical windmill-building in which he had once made paper (Baskerville gets the credit for the introduction of wove paper as a rival to traditional laid paper). His wish was honoured. But it did not last. He was exhumed twice, if memory serves, with perhaps one or two myths, like his being put on public display. The written word, and his mistrust of the orthodox church, are encapsulated in his epitaph.

    “Stranger –
    Beneath this Cone in unconsecrated ground
    A friend to the liberties of mankind directed his body to be inhum’d.
    May the example contribute to emancipate thy mind
    From the idle fears of superstition
    And the wicked arts of Priesthood.”

    Most of the blog-detractors have been noticeably absent on this thread. More of the same please.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Must go for a look, knock off a corner, make a thin section, and get a better idea of what it is. Erratic, very likely, but could have been an intentional import too. Norwich Castle is built of Caen stone , and the artificial reefs at Sea Palling are, or at least contain, a lot of larvikite, shipped from Norway. Lovely ornamental stone, black from a distance, bluish iridescence. This has, coincidentally, also turned up as undoubted glacial erratics. There are no surface exposures of hard rock in Norfolk – even much of the chalk has been ripped from its original position and transported by glaciers.

    The circular markings may also be of interest: cf cup-marked stones throughout the Gaeltacht, as well as numerous cultures worldwide.

  • Node

    Eeeh, you lot don’t know yer born

    My local stone when I were a lad were the Eagle Stone. That were a real tough stone that were. Mess with the Eagle Stone and you had a full scale natural disaster on yer hands. We’d’ve given our right arm to have some namby pamby ghost jump out from behind it going “woooh.” Oh yes.

    A tsunami roaring up the valley from the Cromarty Firth 5 miles away, that’s what we could expect if the Eagle Stone fell over for the third time, guaranteed by the Brahan Seer himself, him what successfully predicted the Clearances and a cow giving birth up Fairburn Tower. Mind you, after it fell for the second time, the Eagle Stone got set in concrete … well, I mean, nobody really believes all that shite but still, no point in taking chances.

    Eagle Stone
    Brahan Seer

  • Juteman

    Ghost?
    My wife and I stayed the night in an old coaching in Ballater. After a nice dinner and a few bottles of wine, we had an early night. During the night, I woke up in terror to find a huge, bearded figure in highland dress strangling me. I tried to scream, and eventually woke up. My heart was pounding, but I realised that it was probably a nightmare brought on by the rich food and wine from the previous night.
    The next day as we were driving home, I mentioned to my wife that I had probably woken everyone up with my screaming during my nightmare. What nightmare, she asked me. I told her I dreamed that I was being strangled.
    She then told me that she had woken during the night to see a huge, bearded figure in highland dress strangling me, but had obviously put it down to a dream!
    Is it possible for two people to have the same dream, or was I really being strangled by a ghost?

  • giyane

    Craig gives us a clue into his inner psyche in this piece of writing.
    1/ In his reference to Black Stones which have been mysteriously transported to new locations. The Ka’aba in Mecca has one and the Qur’an explains that the whole of God’s creation has its own praise and remembrance of Allah/God, including the sun, the moon and all animals. Radio 4 is talking about tree-talk as I’m typing.
    2/ The existence of ghosts. I have never seen one but my grandmother did, and the companions of Prophet Muhammad SAW definitely believed in them.

    YKMN’s use of the word anti disestablishment caught my attention:
    ” the incumbent antidisestablishment vicar had ensured that it was annoyingly hidden from modern view.”

    Norfolk hosted a huge disestablishment religious following in the Quakers and other churches. Religions that gravitate towards the political status quo will always attract protest from fundamentalists who adhere to the religious texts. The use of the word fundamentalist in reference to Islam has turned out to be a political i.e. deceit slogan. The fundamentalists like Al Qaida have turned out to be collaborators with the political status quo, and the real fundamentalists who follow the real Islam have been sidelined as uneducated.

    What are the consequences for Islam that the religion has been hijacked by Muslim Brotherhood and Saudi Takfiri political Islam? obviously you can’t kill other Muslims for the non-believers unless and until you have created a religious dispensation for doing so, i.e. the excuse that they were bad Muslims who therefore had surrendered their right to live in peace in theior own property and lands of origin.

    Undoubtedly Islam is now associated with violence by the majority of the world’s population. So far none of the promised rewards for fighting for USUKIS have resulted in democratically sustained power. The Islamist dictators have proved to be just as prone to torture and injustice as their predecessors. If you start from the premise of not caring even remotely about the Muslims’ well-being, but rather about the well-being of the world’s non-Muslim USUKIS hegemonists, by their fruit shalt thou know them when they wriggle onto the seats of religious and worldly power.

    What got me thinking about this> Thierry Myessan;s article about the 15 years of USUKIS crimes since the false flag operation known as 9/11. He argues that without 9/11 USUKIS would now have had to accept their place amongst other powers as equals.
    http://www.voltairenet.org/article193182.html

    Not only has political Islam boosted the dictatorial power of the enemies of Islam, it has also weakened the economic power of Muslim countries. It has replaced brutal dictatorships with fitna/lawlessness in which is impossible to survive. It has been unable to sustain itself where it has acceded to power through the will of the people. Yet in spite of the wreckage of displaced refugees inflicted by political Islam’s collaboration/ Ahzabiah with Western Power by far the majority of Muslims living in comfort in the UK on UK passports fervently support the path of violence , the path of the Taliban, Al Qaida and Daesh.

    Did all Muslims entering the UK leave their faith behind when they crossed the channel? Or was it only the psychopaths who had the courage to enter the UK and play political games with the psychopaths who rule the UK, who are much hated by the citizens of the UK for their infliction of destructive power?

    So much hated that as soon as David Cameron is squeezed from power he is publicly indicted by the media for his destruction of Libya and creation of Islamic State power there. Did poltical Islam not read the Qur’an over which they claim to have special ability to interpret, when God/Allah forbids them to take the West as political affiliates? Did they not anticipate that the Western powers would not created a gross caricature of Islam in the head-chopping, women enslaving Daesh?

    It is time now in Syria to admit that the Shi’a have more right to call themselves Muslims than the Saudi, Deobandi, Ikwani, or Salafi Ahzab.

    • YKMN

      It seems that the House of Commons foreign affairs committee agrees with at least one of your posts,
      They narrow the “created & supported Dae’sh/IS/ISIL/ISIS ” focus to Sarko & Cammo – which is a bit too narrow. . .

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3788224/David-Cameron-blamed-rise-ISIS.html

      Picture of Cammo with ISIS?
      https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/14/01/2C90125100000578-3788224-Mr_Cameron_poses_with_Libyan_rebels_upon_his_arrival_at_Benghazi-a-23_1473812701846.jpg

    • nevermind

      why don’t you keep this disorganised religous missionary work off this blog, Giyanne?

      Everything Ghaddaffi said would happen, did happen, and Cameron is only one of the guilty who carried out this long planned chaos.
      Where are Ghaddaffis Billions which Libya so dearly needs?

      • giyane

        Nevermind, I’m not doing missionary work. My chosen religion has been hijacked by a psychopathic political creed worthy of Macciavelli, that you can only gain power by collaboration with those in power. This philosophy runs directly counter to the instructions of God revealed by our prophet SAW.

        Read for yourself:
        Five years after the outbreak of the war against Syria there is a detailed documentation of the Australian political
        scientist Tim Anderson unmasking the lies about the dirty war against Syria. Tim Anderson is a senior lecturer in political
        economy at the University of Sydney. His research is about political developments in Latin America, the Asia-Pacific region
        and the Middle East. His recent book published in March 2016 “The dirty war on Syria – Washington, regime change and resistance” is now available in German.

  • YKMN

    As well as the Russian hackers releasing alleged evidence of approved drug use in the Circus Maximus, it seems that another(?) bunch of elite disestablishment hackers have gone after old dried politicians

    https://theintercept.com/2016/09/13/in-leaked-emails-iraq-war-architect-expressed-relief-that-brexit-distracted-from-u-k-war-inquiry/

    The same terrible hackers also revealed retired General Powell being annoyed with both individuals in the queue for the WH, partly ‘cos HRC allegedly charged a university so much for a lecture that CP could get nary a crust from them, partly due to the HRC email scandal that he warned her three years ago wasn’t going to go away, but he’s ” not sure she knew or understood ” what he was trying to tell her! Hmmm!

    If that was millions of people reading my private emails, I’d rightly be unimpressed! Can’t someone omnipotent stop these hackers? All hackers?

  • Alcyone

    On Libya, this is the nub of it:

    “Conservative MP Crispin Blunt, who chairs the select committee, said the original aim of the military intervention to protect Benghazi was achieved within 24 hours.

    “There is a debate about whether that intervention was necessary and on what basis it was taken, but having been achieved, the whole business then elided into regime change and then we had no proper appreciation of what was going to happen in the event of regime change, no proper understanding of Libya, and no proper plan for the consequences,” he said.

    Blunt criticised the British government for not taking advantage of connections with Saif Gaddafi, who had studied at LSE, and Tony Blair’s relationship with Muammar Gaddafi. “No one then said ‘let’s run this, let’s keep this line of communication open’,” said Blunt.

    “If there is a possibility of a political strategy to have avoided what turned out to be a calamity, would it have been a sensible idea to have at least tried it?”
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-damning-verdict-on-camerons-libya-intervention

  • Republicofscotland

    Meanwhile the American taxpayer is duped out of billions of dollars. One day the US public will wake up to the shenanigans of its government, which puts Israel’s priorities before its own peoples.

    “Obama administration is upping aid to Israel as part of the largest pledge of military assistance in US history.”

    “Israel is set to get about $38 billion over 10 years, according to congressional and administration sources, up from the approximately $30 billion decade-long deal that expires in 2018.”

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/us-israel-military-aid-package-mou/

    • Habbabkuk

      Since you’re not an American taxpayer (you claim to be Scottish and living in Scotland if I’m not mistaken?) why are you so fussed?

      Of course, you’re probably less worried about the American taxpayer being “duped” than you are about the money going to Israel.

      If the US sent that money to someone you sympathise with (Raul Castro, President Nicola Maduro Moros, North Korea, “President” Assad Jnr…) I suspect you’d forget all about the “duped” American taxpayer.

      My advice to you is to stop fretting and stand outside the US Consulate General hissing.

      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      NB the “dupe” someone implies that the someone has no idea of what is going on. I suggest that the US taxpayer is cognisant with the fact of US aid to Israel.

      I recommend a good thesaurus, ELIE.

      • Anon1

        “NB the “dupe” someone implies that the someone has no idea of what is going on. I suggest that the US taxpayer is cognisant with the fact of US aid to Israel.”

        And overwhelmingly supportive of it and Israel.

        • glenn

          Just like you two stooges. But that’s your job.

          The Yanks are overwhelmingly supportive because Israel receives uncritical coverage in the media, even while the head of Israel is dissing the US President himself.

          • Anon1

            It is true that by and large the US media doesn’t go in for the kind of Pallywood fiction you would no doubt prefer that Americans were subjected to. Or the kind of seething hatred of Israel we see from the left in Europe. I can’t say I’m that bothered. But entirely uncritical? No. That is simply not true.

            But we digress. The point being made was that the American taxpayer is being “duped”. This is patently not the case in a nation so strongly supportive of Israel as the US.

          • glenn

            The US taxpayer was also duped into thinking they need to spend around £1 Trillion in “defence” each year, duped into believing Saddam Hussein was about to murder them all with WMDs, duped into thinking that an invasion and occupation of a defenceless country like Iraq was warranted, and so on.

            RoS’s point stands very well. Just because the US supported an action, it does not mean that they weren’t duped.

          • Habbabkuk

            Glenn (15h56)

            Nice diversion there! 🙂

            Anon and I have had the better of you, I do think. Better luck next time.

          • Mick McNulty

            When you consider one of the American sayings during the McCarthy years, “Better dead than red,” that’s Americans talking about killing other Americans who are politically to the left of them. It’s more subtle than the things Hitler said but it essentially says the same thing. The average American is still so politically unsophisticated he calls Obama and the Clintons and billionaires like Soros “commies”. He’s beyond enlightenment. Freedom cannot end well over there.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Why are you so fussed about other people having dreams, and Obama upping the aid to Israel?

        Are you afraid of more missions like the massacre of the al-Hillis et al. occurring by Mossad agents, and being disclosed?

      • Republicofscotland

        Habb.

        I’d say it’s common knowledge that lobbys and very prominent businessmen and politicians of a certain persuasion, (American), you know of whom I speak, hold sway over how much support the Apartheid state of Israel receives.

        If I were American, I’d look at why such a small ethic group, (Zionistic in nature) in America, compels the US government, to send so much aid to an aggressive military state, half way round the world. A state that can virtually act with impunity.

        Afterall American’s don’t have their troubles to seek, with mass homelessness and difficulty receiving medical treatment.

        Id also imagine that if US aid and support stopped flowing towards Israel, you’d see the likes of Netanyahu, fall over himself to support a two state solution.

        Or the Samson Option would come onto the table.

        • Habbabkuk

          RoS

          “..politicians of a certain persuasion, (American), you know of whom I speak,..

          __________________________

          Actually, I don’t. Tell me.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “If I were American, I’d look at..etc,etc..”

          _________________________

          But you’re not. You’re a Scot, living in Scotland (allegedly). So simmer down, plenty of work to be done in Scotland, eh what! 🙂

    • Alcyone

      How beautifully Cameron has tip-toed out of Parliament side-stepping the minefield that was awaiting him. Master-crafter!

      • fwl

        They all supported Libya. It was incomprehensible how they could be so blind. This was after Iraq. The support was cross party. Where were the millions who marched against Iraq? You would almost assume that Libya was before Iraq and that there was no lesson staring everyone in the face.

        Oddly TB comes out of this better than most (slightly).

        Why did we destroy Libya? As a lesson to others? Because it had given up its WMD? Because the French wanted to?

        So, well the critical attention of the Foreign Affairs Cmmttee is to be praised. What does it achieve? Some discomfort for Cameron et al, but so what. If Iraq didn’t teach a lesson we ain’t listening.

        What also gets me is that this sort of regime change (Libya / Syria) is so inhumane that it makes cold war gladio (and whatever the USSR equivalent was) to be almost a master classes in civilized skull duggery. Fix an election, assassinate a politician, manipulate the media, bribe, blackmail and the odd bomb – what are these tactics compared to what has become of Libya. I don’t know because not much is reported on Libya. Am I correct to assume that regime change has different codes depending upon the value we place on the people within the regime? Is it that if we value (or are fearful) we (and other powers) act discretely, but if we do not value or are not fearful discretion and all the gloss of civilisation are discarded.

        I appreciate I may benefit from skull duggery. Maybe there always has to be some to keep the lights on and the cash dispenser opening, but everyone needs to examine their conscience. That is all really.I am not calling for punishment or prosecution. Only that in quiet people privately consider their conscience, their acts, omissions, thoughts and feelings. That would be a start.

        Ghost stories arising out of consciences. They could tell a few stories.

      • Habbabkuk

        Alcyone

        A bit harsh there, I think. Let’s face it : once you’ve been PM, would you really want to stay on as a backbencher?

  • YKMN

    Now, pay attention chaps/chappettes/machine-algos – today’s lesson in internet security is from somewhere in Maryland

    you should grok all the following 6 posters carefully, and be on the lookout for reds under your beds, as we speak

    http://www.cdse.edu/documents/security_posters/large/ALessonInSecurity.pdf

    http://www.cdse.edu/documents/security_posters/large/Anna_Chapman.pdf

    http://www.cdse.edu/documents/security_posters/large/Bradley_Manning.pdf

    http://www.cdse.edu/documents/security_posters/large/Julian_Assange.pdf #404

    http://www.cdse.edu/documents/security_posters/large/Edward_Snowden.pdf #404

    and http://www.cdse.edu/documents/security_posters/large/Harold_Nicholson.pdf #404
    (Ed. Who he?)

    Strange, the internet spy page seems to be missing three posters today!

    luckily the Streisand memory of the internet has two of the three indexed here:-

    https://i.imgur.com/brYKM1q.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsO_wSIWEAE2uRP.jpg

    watchout, trouble is about!

  • Republicofscotland

    So Israel wants to build another wall, a underground one this time, (and I thought Trump was the rabid dog no matter). The wall will further isolate the Palestinian people in the West Bank.

    The UN has already said that the current wall, is illegal under International Law, the (ICJ) the International Court of Justice, voted 14 to 1 against the wall, it violates principles of UN Charters.

    More walls more apartheid.

    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=11292#.V9lsbOjTVcs

    http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/75497/idf-construction-massive-underground-wall-gaza-border-begins/#fTZgMVeQhmhrXJdF.97

    • Habbabkuk

      The underground wall is between Israel and Gaza, not Israel and the West Bank.

      Get your basic facts right before sounding off.

      • Sharp Ears

        ‘The underground wall is between Israel and Gaza, not Israel and the West Bank.’

        So that’s alright then.

        • Habbabkuk

          Yes, it’s fine by me (and many others).

          Do people normally cross a border underground?

          It may of course be that you disapprove of countries protecting their borders.

          (and no, don’t reference the Berlin Wall)

          • Sharp Ears

            Yes. To obtain food, fuel, medicines, building materials, vehicles, tools and anything else that we in the Western world and in Israel consider to be necessary for the maintenance of life that is otherwise denied the Palestinians by the Occupier,

          • Habbabkuk

            So people from Gaza cross into Israel through underground tunnels to get fuel, medicines, food, vehicles, etc…?

            Just as a matter of interest – do they take the vehicles back into Gaza through the tunnels?

            Your thesis is laughable.

          • glenn

            “Do they take the vehicles back?”

            Sure they do! Just the way the Cubans had a secret supply of 1950s US automobiles, which can still be seen driven around there today. How else do you think they have them?

            You’re becoming more foolish by the day, Habbabkuk. Try thinking before typing.

    • Habbabkuk

      Yoir second link even mentions Gaza.

      My conclusion is that you get so excited that you can’t even get your post to align with your link.

      Gamma double minus.

  • RobG

    For anyone interested, last weekend RT did a fascinating interview with Sarah Harrison, the Wikileaks editor who accompanied Edward Snowden on his flight from Hong Kong to Moscow back in 2013. Amongst other things in the interview it’s mentioned that Julian Assange has said that sometime this week he’ll be releasing more damning evidence against Hillary Clinton. This may or may not be connected to Hillary’s little upset during Sunday’s 9/11 memorial. Oh, and the backdrop to this interview with Harrison is the MI6 building in London…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHhsy8B8_d8

    • Republicofscotland

      Rob.

      Thanks for the link, here it says Assange will be interviewed in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London on October 17th of this year.

      “The questioning will be conducted by a prosecutor from Ecuador, however Chief Prosecutor Ingrid Isgren and a police investigator from Sweden will also be present and are expected to ask questions through the Ecuadorian.”

      https://www.rt.com/uk/359288-swedish-prosecutors-assange-interview/

      One wonders, if those that are interested in acquiring Mr Assange, have realised it will be far easier to obtain him, if he leaves the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

      • Republicofscotland

        Israel to tell Facebook, what’s proper and what’s not when it comes to posts regarding Israel. As Facebook and Israeli officials work out a plan, in Israel.

        “However, digital rights groups have charged that such legislation is unlikely to be enforceable and say the laws are used as a pressure tactic to prompt Facebook to monitor users’ content. The groups warn of a slippery slope to censorship.”

        https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/12/facebook-israel-monitor-posts-incite-violence-social-media?CMP=twt_gu

        Just why is Facebook pandering to the whims, of a apartheid state?

          • Habbabkuk

            Neither nor, Glenn.

            Israel is not an apartheid state.

            (Cue : switch the conversation to the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem 🙂 )

          • glenn

            Is there any good reason why I shouldn’t consider you to be an Israeli spokesperson?

            For example, suggest any behaviour of yours which points to your not being an Israeli spokesperson.

            Your entirely uncritical support (if not championing) of that racist, war-mongering and apartheid state suggests that you are.

          • Habbabkuk

            RoS at 20h16

            Your link to Ha’aretz : another sleight of hand, ELIE, as per usual: Falk is talking about the west Bank and East Jerusalem, not israel.

            As I said to Glenn :” (Cue : switch the conversation to the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem ? )”

          • Habbabkuk

            Glenn (20h16)

            To be frank, I don’t give a toss for what you “consider” or not.

            Sory! 🙂

          • Republicofscotland

            Glenn. 20.16 comment.

            Funny you should ask that question, I’ve been testing the water, (so to speak) over the last two weeks roughly posting mainly comments on Israel, and its activities, which portray it in a not so good light.

            Unsurprisingly Habb, has taken the bait, on quite a few of them, in defence of Israel, I’d say Habb, is a Israeli/Brit, something or other, spokesperson? Apologist? Etc but definitely connected, based where? I’m not sure.

            Reading this link, will probably give us a better understanding of why Habb defends even the most obnoxious Israeli actions, with vigour.

            http://972mag.com/hasbara-why-does-the-world-fail-to-understand-us/27551/

            Here’s a sample.

            “Hasbara is a form of propaganda aimed at an international audience, primarily, but not exclusively, in western countries. It is meant to influence the conversation in a way that positively portrays Israeli political moves and policies, including actions undertaken by Israel in the past. Often, Hasbara efforts includes a negative portrayal of the Arabs and especially of Palestinians.”

            I suggest that we all read it, as it will more than likely give us all a insight into Habbs psyche, when it comes to Israel.

        • Habbabkuk

          But you, ELIE, seem to have an apartheid mentality.

          In both matters Israeli and Scottish, I’ve noticed.

      • Habbabkuk

        RoS (ELIE)

        “..however Chief Prosecutor Ingrid Isgren and a police investigator from Sweden will also be present and are expected to ask questions through the Ecuadorian.”
        _____________________

        Interesting, that.

        One would imagine that the language used between the Swedes and the Ecuadorians will be English.

        So Mr Assange will gain a little extra time to think up convincing responses.

        • Macky

          Habba-Clown; “So Mr Assange will gain a little extra time to think up convincing responses.”

          Well if English is your first language, all the time in the world doesn’t seem to be enough for you to ever make any convincing, or even sensible, responses to anything !

          • Habbabkuk

            Welcome back, Macks, I’ve missed your very individual brand of nonsense.

            Where have you been hiding all this time?

          • glenn

            Habbabkuk: Christ almighty, when will you grow up?

            Inventing silly names for people, pretending you’re marking their work, pretending you’re about to be the “head moderator” here (how’s that working out, btw?), running to the mods to tell tales and whine about others, dishing out slurs, insults, name-calling, yah-booing…. I haven’t seen the likes of this since primary school.

            FFS, grow up man!

  • Anon1

    A recent YouGov survey determined that a Jeremy Corbyn supporter is most likely to be young, Welsh, vegetarian, depressed.

    In fairness to Glenn, he is only three of these. 🙂

    • glenn

      Most droll, Anon1. Surely there cannot be that many young Welsh veggie depressives – at least, nowhere near enough to account for the large amount of support that Corbyn receives.

    • Republicofscotland

      So the Home Secretary Amber Rudd, can’t rule out that citizens of the dis-United Kingdom, will have to pay for a visa to visit Europe. It has been dubbed the “Holiday tax” and could be around £10 pounds, per person.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/british-holidaymakers-could-be-forced-to-pay-to-travel-to-europe/

      No doubt, once on the continent, showing your dis-United Kingdom passport, will see you pay just that little extra.

      The benefits of Brexit are never ending..eh?

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/british-holidaymakers-could-be-forced-to-pay-to-travel-to-europe/

      • Habbabkuk

        Well, I don’t know whether Ms Rudd was confused or merely misreported, ELIE, but the true position is as follows:

        there will be no need for UK nationals going to the EU countries after Brexit to obtain a visa (and pay for it) and vice versa.

        Perhaps you are too young to remember (you sound fairly juvenile) but British travellers to the continent (excluding the part ruled by the evil Soviet Empire) didn’t need visas even in the 1950s – a long time before the UK became a member of the EU.

        • Republicofscotland

          Habb.

          I trust you have a link to back up your assertation?

          Thanks in advance for posting it.

          I’m sure you know better than the Home Secretary?

          • Habbabkuk

            Certainly, ELIE.

            For France, refer to the Exchange of \notes between the Govt of the United Kingdom and the Govt of the French Republic (signatories: Bevin and Massigli) of 24/27 December 1946 on the abolition of visa requirements for travel between the UK and France.

            Similar instrument for other Continental countries (except of course those unfortunate countries under the yoke of the evil Soviet Union).

            Hope that helps.

          • Republicofscotland

            Habb.

            Forgive me if I take your point with a pinch of salt, you wrongly surmised that Verhofstadt wasn’t the chief negotiator, for the EU, one wonders what other, little or very large titbits, you’ve uttered, that wouldn’t stand up to scrutiny.

            “Guy Verhofstadt, the former Prime Minister of Belgium, has been appointed as the lead Brexit negotiator for the European Parliament”

            https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/man-compared-nigel-farages-campaign-nazi-propaganda-going-lead-brexit-negotiations/

            Of course, Habb, you’re not the only one who, comments without thinking first, if I recall your little sidekick Anon1 backed your assertion.

            Still no harm done afterall, we’re all fallible. ?

          • Habbabkuk

            RoS

            Wrong again.

            I wrote that Mr Verhofstadt was the chief negotiator for the European Parliament and not the chief negotiator for the European Union as you had claimed.

            The chief negotiator for the European Union – I also wrote – is Monsieur Michel Barnier, former European Commissioner, former french minister and part-tie circus clown.

            You need to read what I write more carefully 🙂

          • Habbabkuk

            I surmise that it was my reference to the evil Soviet Empire which annoyed you so?

            Good to see it’s not only Mr Goss who’s keeping the faith.

        • YKMN

          . . .we now have such an urgent ‘security situation’ that many travellers from U.K. would in the future hypothetically willingly volunteer to give their data, give their £35, and go somewhere rather European for a change. . .

          Remember that it’s also estimated that this particular use of the Schengen databases could bring in two billion euros annually ( around €38M/week ) to the eu budget.

    • RobG

      Half way through the totally contrived Sky debate (with regard to the studio audience), Owen whats-his-name is having the usual car crash, and Corbyn is starting to show a bit of the killer instinct, which is what any good leader needs.

      When Corbyn is re-elected leader later this month there needs to be a night of the long knives.

        • RobG

          I mean the 170 or so Labour MPs who have rebelled against Corbyn. All of them need to be de-selected. The constituency Labour party are overwhelmingly in support of Corbyn (by about 80% in favour of him, including Owen-whats-his-name’s own constituency party), and the NEC have already elected members that will make it pro-Corbyn at the end of the party conference later this month.

          Kick all these Labour Party traitors out and hold by-elections, or preferably a general election by the close of this year.

          We’ll see then what’s what, and only a complete egit would wager money on the conservatives winning again.

          • Habbabkuk

            “I mean the 170 or so Labour MPs who have rebelled against Corbyn”
            _______________________

            170 MPs, eh?

            That sounds like most of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

            Perhaps Mr Corbyn and his far-left clique have rebelled against the PLP?

          • RobG

            Habba, yes about 170 Labour MPs have not given their support to a leader of the Labour party who was elected by a record-breaking mandate.

            It makes you think, dunnit, that those 170 or so Labour MPs are all beholden to Washington and are total traitors (it goes without saying that the Conservative party are all total traitors).

            These MPs, of both parties, are total vermin and scum, and the British people are increasingly aware of this.

            Bring on the next general election.

            It’s why the Establishment/traitors are shitting themselves.

            Come on, give us another totally fabricated and loony story about Corbyn.

            I could do with a good laugh before I crash out for the night.

          • glenn

            H: “Perhaps Mr Corbyn and his far-left clique have rebelled against the PLP?

            The LP members who voted him in, and are in the process of doing the same again, are rebelling against the Establishment-orientated PLP. This should be clear to any honest person. (Don’t trouble yourself for a brief moment, H.)

            What would that tell an honest person? It would say the “New Labour” takeover is being pushed back against, in very a strong way.

            What would that tell a dishonest person? Step forward Habbabkuk – this is your ground, so please do tell us. We’re all ears.

          • Habbabkuk

            And who voted in the 170+ Labour MPs?

            I would suggest more people than who voted for Mr Corbyn as Labour Party leader.

            They are called the electors, I believe.

          • fwl

            Rob, I thought you meant a purge of those who remained with Corbyn, but were not really loyal, but you mean a purge of the backbenchers. The constituency party is not the be all and end all. The local party can be radically redirected by new members, or they may be old labour long timers, but they are not the electorate. If Corbyn purged all his back bench oppo and local constituencies selected 170 trot candidates I do not think the betting market would rate labour’s chances. You would just be doing Conservatives a favour.

          • nevermind

            Not an impossible solution to their hang ups and habits for corporate Government by lawyers, Rob G. But I feel it will take a slightly different flavour. They will be given one last chance to come behind the new leader and support him.

            Should this not happen, then it will mean that they have a fight on their hand to keep their selection for the next GE. This will only detract from the many reforms that party needs. Its policy work is based on the same dogs breakfast 4 year planning than that of the Tory’s, nobody is planning long term, except when they can rip us off good and proper, hallo Hinkley, then it matters.

            I would now urge everyone in the UK to get together with like minded and produce your own electricity, even have your own village grid, share with other villages who might also want to join in. Develop low risk solar, sea current and wind generators, anything to get you off grid.
            What would it take to rent/buy your local sewerage system and use the methane rather than flare it off, but anaerobic digestion would only work in some rural villages and you will have to re use the sludge on fields.
            sea current’s at Waxham and Pakefiled, for example, wherever there is much cliff erosion, a good indicator, all along the east coast run at 4-5 miles, regardless of tide. There are so many differing types of generation that can be tried, depending on the energy in our seas, slightly more on the west coast than the east, due to higher tidal lift and waves, that a simple community project, ideally with a back up, can modernise and sustain a community.
            Let those who bleat for this most expensive energy pay for it!

      • Mick McNulty

        I agree. Jeremy seems to be toughening his stance towards the MPs who’ve made it near-impossible for him to run the opposition as he was elected to do, but a Night of the Long Knives may be a bit harsh. A Night of the Long Scratches should do it.

  • giyane

    Sitting on Tel Aviv beach making sand-boobs to drool over, then passing a little time at the keyboard trolling for the apartheid state.

  • Brianfujisan

    See…A real live one – writer..

    …Re the Children’s Stories… My route home has an Erratic ..Called xxx Stone… it was always Child hood Stories that Shiver’d oor spines… NO Adult Ever Told Ghosties on them Stones…

    P.s we had other more serious matters to deal with… But we could / can see faslane from here…. What with all that Bomb talk..

    • Node

      Dumfries and Galloway are taking steps to prevent the Nationalists taking them out of Britain against their will should there be another referendum.

      Two or three Conservative councilors (laughably and ironically calling themselves “Independents”) have asked/ Dumfries and Galloway council to ask Westminster for permission to ask Dumfries and Galloway voters if they want to stay in the UK.

      They are no more “taking steps to prevent the Nationalists taking them out of Britain” than you are.

          • glenn

            Thought it was more like what “Dirty” Desmond wanted them to hear. Which – these days – is whatever UKIP wants, since he’s so wedded to them.

          • Anon1

            Glenn,

            You were doing this the other day – claiming most Americans are pro-Israel because their media tells them to be. I read the Express, the Mail, Guardian et al. People can read a paper without becoming ‘brainwashed’ by it. People often choose a paper that confirms what they already knew or suspected, but that does not mean to say they form their opinions based on what the paper tells them. The trouble with you is that you seem to think anyone who doesn’t share your outlook is a victim of propaganda.

          • Republicofscotland

            Anon1

            Don’t forget the RoP report, you quote from it often enough, mind you if you read the Mail and the Express, you’re probably walking around in a daze right now.

        • Republicofscotland

          “No look, the Express tells it like it is:”

          _______

          Alan.

          Those belligerent fools at the Express, wouldn’t know the truth if they were slapped on the face with it.

          http://wingsoverscotland.com/far-below-the-gutters/#more-88028

          http://wingsoverscotland.com/what-you-cant-say/#more-88093

          So what we’ve got here is terrible polling, terrible reporting of the terrible polling, and hopelessly confused members of the public trying to make sense of it all somewhere in the middle. Welcome to Scottish politics 2016, everyone.

          http://wingsoverscotland.com/dissatisfaction-guaranteed/

          Incidently support for Scottish independence is on the up, every cloud has a silver lining, as they say. ?

          • fwl

            You may find that there are intelligent journalists at right wing tabloids who hold left wing views and vice versa – best not to assume too much.

        • fred

          It was an Ipsos MORI poll commissioned for STV so yes, the Express are merely reporting it they had nothing to do with running the poll.

          • Republicofscotland

            Yes I know, I also know the question posed, but that, doesn’t take away from the fact that the Express gutter rag, owned by Desmond, is on a crusade to blacken the Scotyish government at every turn.

          • fred

            I think a paper should be criticised for not holding the government to account.

            Only Scots Nationalists criticises a paper when they do.

      • fred

        “They are no more “taking steps to prevent the Nationalists taking them out of Britain” than you are.”

        You would agree that if there was another referendum then and area of Scotland with a majority wanting to remain part of Britain should be able to.

        Considering that is the basis on which the Nationalists are calling for another referendum, that the majority in Scotland voted remain. If the majority in, say, Orkney and Shetland voted to remain in Britain then the Nationalists couldn’t in fairness make them leave.

        • Node

          You would agree that if there was another referendum then and area of Scotland with a majority wanting to remain part of Britain should be able to.

          Irrelevant to what we were discussing. Let me put it this way:

          If I asked my MP to ask Theresa May to allow me to ask my neighbour for a shot of his lawnmower, would it be realistic to say I was taking steps to cut my grass.

          • fred

            I think it is very relevant.

            If the Nationalists claim Britain is taking Scotland out of Europe against their will and it justifies a second referendum then by the same token in a second referendum each region of Scotland should be entitled to remain part of Britain if that’s what the majority want.

            Wouldn’t you agree?

          • Anon1

            “You would agree that if there was another referendum then an area of Scotland with a majority wanting to remain part of Britain should be able to.

            Considering that is the basis on which the Nationalists are calling for another referendum, that the majority in Scotland voted remain. If the majority in, say, Orkney and Shetland voted to remain in Britain then the Nationalists couldn’t in fairness make them leave.”

            Good point.

          • Node

            Wouldn’t you agree?

            I’ll answer your question even though you won’t answer mine.

            No, I don’t agree. By your logic, we could subdivide the nation into smaller and smaller units until each individual gets to decide whether or not (s)he remains in Europe. If there was a mechanism to make such an arrangement practical, then fine with me. But there isn’t.

            Can you offer a rationale for devolving such a decision to county level but no further? I’m willing to listen.

          • fred

            My logic?

            I’m just applying Nationalist logic regarding the Brexit referendum to any future independence referendum.

            Nationalists say Britain can be subdivided so Scotland can be sub divided. Orkney and Shetland are not connected to the mainland and are not historically part of Scotland, the borders have changed hands between Scotland and England many times in the past.

            Shouldn’t they, by Nationalist logic, have the right to choose whether they remain part of Britain in any future referendum?

          • fwl

            There is no such concept of country level. Pre unification some German states were the size of an English manor. The Windsors stem from such a seed state (how they blossomed out across Europe is interesting but even more OT).

          • Node

            Please don’t evade the issue.

            Can you offer a rationale for devolving such a decision to county level but no further?

  • Republicofscotland

    So the giant “white elephant” known as Hinckley Point nuclear power station will go ahead. The price tag is a whopping £18 billion quid, expect that to rise sharply over the coming years.

    The Westminster government has offered to pay £92.50/per MegaWatt, some experts I’ve heard on the radio, and in other media platforms, infact most of them have said, that price is far too high. Expect your electricity bills to rise quite a bit, once the Hinckley behemoth, kicks into life.

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