Gibraltar: A Tax Haven Not a Nation 885


There are 32,000 Gibraltarians organised into 11,400 households. Extraordinarily there are more registered companies than households, including 8,464 registered offshore companies.

The Government of Gibraltar’s own website is notably candid about its tax haven activities. It urges you to establish there so you can take advantage of:

Highly-developed business services infrastructure where it is possible to passport an EU licence in financial services such as insurance and re-insurance, EU-wide pensions, banking and funds administration, amongst others.
Distribute competitively priced VAT-free goods and services to the markets of the EU and Africa.
Conduct business in a quality low-tax jurisdiction with a profit oriented capital base at low levels of corporate tax, all in a stable currency with few restrictions in moving capital or repatriating dividends.

It is no wonder Gibraltar voted 96% pro-EU. Its entire economy rests upon the use of its anomalous status to undercut the tax regimes of genuine EU members. Remarkably for a population the size of Ramsgate, there are 17 registered banks in Gibraltar, including Credit Suisse, the money laundering giant raided by combined European police forces yet again yesterday, and RBS/Natwest’s tax avoidance entity.

Gibraltar was occupied by England (yes, England) in 1704 when it was sacked by the Hessian Prince George (wry smile Hessian – sacked) and 90% of the Spanish population fled after being subjected to mass rape.

Britnats have been all over twitter this last 24 hours shouting that Gibraltar was given to Britain “in perpetuity” by the Treaty of Utrecht of 1713. Thankfully the world has changed since 1713. The Treaty of Utrecht also gave Brazil to Portugal, much of Italy to the Hapsburgs and gave Britain the monopoly on the shipping of African slaves to South America. Thankfully none of those turned out to be perpetual and the British occupation of Gibraltar is equally immoral and anachronistic. That the Foreign and Commonwealth still quotes the Treaty of Utrecht is evidence of the moral bankruptcy of the British government’s position.

There is a key point here. Empires cannot cloak their continued Imperial possessions under the “right of self-determination” of Imperial client populations. Still less is there a “right of self-determination” for an entire Imperial client population to leech off tax avoidance activities by virtue of their Imperial possession status. The right of self-determination does not apply to the colonists of Gibraltar, who like the Falklanders are an introduced Imperial population – contrary to myth the large majority of Gibraltarians are not descended from the original Spanish population. Gibraltar is plainly listed by the UN as a Non Self Governing Territory. Self-determination is not applicable in international law. UN General Assembly Resolution 2353 specifically asserted that Gibraltar is a colony which impinges on the territorial integrity of Spain and thus on Spanish right to self-determination, and that a referendum of the colonial population could not change that.

Britain’s fervidly jingoistic attempts to hold on to its remaining colonies are pathetic. I have a memory as a very small child of watching Rolf Harris on TV dressed in union jacks singing “Please Don’t Alter Gibraltar” to the tune of Land of Hope and Glory. Google has just reassured me this really happened and was not a nightmare. I now realise from the timing that was a riposte to the UN General Assembly discussions. That it was Rolf Harris gives the perfect pointer to the grossly immoral British position on Gibraltar.

Ironies abound.

Irony 1
It is the Little England Brexiteers who are frothing at the mouth over the EU saying it will take heed of Spain’s position on Gibraltar – despite the fact the Gibraltarians voted 96% in favour of the EU.
They cry, how dare the EU take into account the position of the United Nations and of its member state, Spain, against what will be a non-member state? Who could have seen that coming?

Irony 2

Gibraltarians of course voted in favour of the EU in order to benefit from the opportunity to continue undermining EU tax regimes.

Irony 3

The Daddy of them all. The Britnats who crowed repeatedly at Scots, extolling alleged (and improbable) Spanish desire to veto Scottish EU membership, are shocked, shocked that Spain may veto a Brexit settlement over Gibraltar.

Anyway, to cheer up you Britnats, here is a picture of the massive audience for Theresa May’s recent Glasgow speech. Dressed as Rolf Harris. Altogether now “Please Don’t Alter Gibraltar”.


885 thoughts on “Gibraltar: A Tax Haven Not a Nation

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  • Dave

    At first glance the suicide attack in St Petersburg looks suspect if only because of the use of the term suicide bomber, which is used to denote “Muslim terrorist” and against another low risk civilian target. Surely it makes more sense to be a “non-suicide bomber” to ‘bomb again’ another day. Both ‘west and east’ are competing with similar tactics to control the anti-Muslim narrative. The ‘west’ to wage war and the ‘east’ to end the war and neither can denounce the other side for false flags without being denounced in turn, with the ‘west’ having more to lose, re. 9/11.

    • Sharp Ears

      How is it known within a few hours that the so called ‘suicide bomber’ is from Kyrgyzstan?

      His name and his place of birth is even being quoted? Did he leave his passport and papers behind just like those involved in French attacks were supposed to have done?

      St Petersburg metro bombing suspect ‘from Kyrgyzstan’
      1 hour ago
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39486640

      • stu

        I would guess facial recognition software used on CCTV images.

        The thing to think about is why it took three days for the identities of the Boston Bombers to be announced when it should have taken the NSA five minutes to match the CCTV image of the brothers near the blast site to their person of interest files.

  • Barbara Boyle

    Gibraltar has signed up to the IMF Code of Good Practices on Transparency in Monetary and Financial Policies, EU Directive 2013/36/EU on Access to the Activity of Credit Institutions and the Prudential Supervision of Credit Institutions and Investment Firms and EU Regulation no. 575/2013 on Prudential Requirements for Credit Institutions and Investment Firms. Is it still such a safe fiscal haven?

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Try getting anything useful out of Gibraltar Companies House on the brass plates registered there, and if you do, please report back. Two you might look at are Windrush Ltd and Firerush Ltd, set up in 2010 by the then Baker Tilly (Gibraltar). I’d love to know the beneficial owner.

      My impression is that the IMF Code is toothless, and that the firms actually channeling assets away from taxation are structured so as to be outside the scope of the EU Directives. They are not themselves either investment institutions or credit institutions.

  • Loony

    Ah yes the fact that there are 17 registered banks in Gibraltar is truly remarkable – after all Gibraltar is only about the same size as Ramsgate.

    Note that the author does not set out how many banks may be found in Ramsgate. The answer is 8 – so there are indeed more banks in Gibraltar. Unlike Gibraltar Ramsgate “benefits” from being only a 1 hour 17 minute train ride from London. Once in London the residents of Ramsgate are free to avail themselves of the services of some 512 banks – a somewhat higher figure than 17.

    Once verifiable facts are introduced then it is not clear how an argument can be made that suggests that Gibraltar is “over banked” as compared to Ramsgate.

      • bevin

        I bet that you are. The statistic is meaningless unless you are suggesting that Ramsgate is a tax haven woith more offshore companies registered there than households and that the banks in question play similar roles.
        But you aren’t you are simply siding with an evidently corrupt status quo against the threat of reforming change. It is not change to which you object, just change for the benefit of the people. Is it necessary to say that those who do not pay taxes on their income and wealth pass the burdens, of which they relieve themselves, to be borne by those least able to defend themselves, the poorest and the weakest?
        Again, of course it isn’t: you understand very well the evil motives underlying such anti-social activities and you delight in the confirmation that human nature is corrupt, that mankind is in the thrall of selfish bullies and that you have the presence of mind to ensure that you speak on their behalf and represent their case for driving the weak to the wall.

        • Habbabkuk

          Bevs

          Do stop ranting. On second thoughts, don’t – the more posts like the one above, the more you discredit yourself and any case you might possibly have. It is my privilege to help you along your self-destructive path.

          Carry on.

  • Rob Royston

    Going back to the picture of the ecstatic May supporters in Glasgow, why has the blue in the “butcher’s jaikets” been changed to black? Looking at the faces, I reckon about five minutes with Nicola would convert these diehard NO’s to YES.

  • mike

    Unbelievable what I heard on BBC radio news just now: they went to some US counter-terrorism expert for a reaction. He spoke about how the Kremlin wants to “take control of the narrative” and “spread propaganda” about the St Petersburg subway attack as other “authoritarian” regimes do. That’s a disgraceful line for the fucking BBC to take. They just had to find a neocon psycho to get that kind of twisted reaction, less than a day after the event.

    • Sharp Ears

      Treeza, in Amman with the puppet King, was quick to align herself to the propaganda for her own war on terrrrr.

      https://youtu.be/Sj4D5e1Xh7U

      Perhaps if the NATO/USUKIs alliance stopped bombing brown skinned people, there would not be any terror.

      • IrishU

        Sharp Ears, why are you so puerile when it comes to the spelling of the words Theresa and terror?

        • Sharp Ears

          Are you Dreolin by any chance?

          Treeza because that winds up the tr..ls on here and terrrr because that’s how George W Bush, the warmonger, pronounced the word. Also nucular for nuclear.

          • IrishU

            I am not, you asked me something similar several months ago. As I said then, we interacted several times during the first Scottish Indpendence Referendum campaign but you were under a different username. I was IrishU then too.

          • glenn_uk

            You mean there’s more than one person in Ireland with an Internet connection? Impossible. It must be that Dreolin is letting you use hers.

          • Habbabkuk

            Yes, I miss Dreoilin as well, especially because she struck me as an open-minded, independent and genuine person.

    • Dave

      Yes the BBC is an instrument of the ‘west’s’ narrative and rather than call out the ‘west’s’ staged events the ‘east’ has copied the tactic to steal the anti-Muslim narrative. The ‘west’ want to promote IS as cover to bomb Assad and ‘east’ promote IS as cover for supporting Assad. And all the “staged events” are so obviously false flag, that its black humour funny that the ‘west’ can’t expose the ‘east’ without exposing themselves!

      • michael norton

        There is something in this.

        Alreay Vlad Putin is claiming that the Russian underground explosion, give him the green light for destoying Checen Islamists in Syria.
        Just this week Chechneyia has agreed to let girls wear the hijab in schools.

        • michael norton

          Russia and Syria are winning the Syrian “civil” war, Turkey is losing.

          POP_UP Assad is gassing his own people, as told by The White Helmets,

          just a “little” bit of coincidence

    • bevin

      The swiftness of the reaction was amazing. The BBC, I gather was at the head of the queue speculating that Putin was the likely culprit.
      Does it not leave a nasty taste in mouths which so very recently have been spinning the Westminster attack into a festival of post mortem celebrations to piss all over the fresh corpses of Russians?

      • glenn_uk

        I’m not sure if that’s any worse that the usual suspects here, who like to claim that there are no victims of terrorism in our countries – it’s all just fakery. They’ll tell you the attacks in Paris, Nice, Westminster are all hoax jobs, and that the bereaved are all actors.

  • Loony

    …and so the poor Spanish are denied their rights to exercise sovereignty over a small rock that is geographically part of the Spanish mainland. This must be so galling to the Spaniards as they themselves would never behave in such a way,

    How then to explain the curious case of the Spanish settlements at Cueta and Mellilla – both of which are geographically part of Morocco. Why we find that Spanish ownership of Cueta is deduced via the 1658 Treaty of Lisbon – which is a good and pure treaty, unlike the evil and corrupt 1713 Treaty of Utrecht.

    Mellilla on the other hand is merely the product of Spanish conquest – to the victor go the spoils being the operative creed.

    The fact that Cueta and Mellilla are geographically part of Africa but are also member of the European Union may be informative. Could it be that the EU is so stupid that it is unable to comprehend the meaning of the words “European Union”? or could it be that the EU is a colonial power who could not care less that it defines part of Africa as Europe?

    • michael norton

      well, everytime I mention the massive quantity of Methane found in the Eastern Mediterranean, it straight away gets deleted, perhaps it is of no concern to a Scottish-Centric blog?

      However both Greece and Cyprus are in debt.
      What better way for them to repay their debt to the German banks than for their potential hydrocarbon wealth to be sucked up by Germany/E.U.

      I bet no ordinary people from Cyprus of Greece, get any benefit, whatsoever from these fields.

      • nevermind

        The Russians might be interested in a second Mediterranean base and Greece has been approached in the past by them. Cyprus would be perfect.

        question is, what will happen to Akrotiri?

        • michael norton

          There are a lot of Russians, domiciled in Cyprus, it is safer than Lebanon, Syria or Egypt.

          Lots of funny money sloshing around.

    • Habbabkuk

      That is another good point, Loony; others on here have made it as well.

      I wonder what the chances are that Craig would comment on the point?

      • Why be ordinary?

        Not only Spain also France has parts of the country outside Europe. The difference is that these are parts of the home country, vote in national elections etc. what people in the rest of Europe don’t understand is the determination of Gibraltar etc to be “British” but not actually part of Britain. Guadalupe is part of France, with the same tax regime and supporting it costs the French tax payer huge amounts. The U.K. wants to give nothing to Caribbean Islands so they have to find their own ways of earning money.

        In any case, the EU is not saying that the U.K. should hand Gibraltar to Spain, but that Gibraltar can’t automatically expect to benefit from the third party deal which the EU will negotiate with the EU. Gibraltarians can find new opportunities outside the EU that Brexiteers have been insisting are there for the taking

  • reel guid

    The very fact that a former British Leader of the Opposition has called for possible war between two western European states – even if he didn’t really mean it, but we can’t even be sure of that – shows how far the British power elite has degenerated after decades of neoliberalism.

    The very fact that Theresa May didn’t publicly disown such remarks from someone who led her party little more than a decade ago shows the UK oligarchs want to continue down the route of pretend world power instead of being good Europeans.

    • michael norton

      There is no chance of The United Kingdom ceding Gibraltar to Spain,
      it would be the virtual end of The British Empire.

      • reel guid

        You mean the end of the virtual British empire. It’s about as real as a computer game.

          • reel guid

            Aha. So Scotland’s hosting of Trident is by your judgement the result of imperialism and not the result of a union of equal partners that was so publicly proclaimed during the indyref1 campaign.

          • michael norton

            Look, Tony Blair, George Robertson, Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown,
            ran the British Empire for a dozen or so years, they initiated multiple wars, via NATO

            you Scottish lot are up to your necks in The British Empire,
            have been for three hundred years.

          • Republicofscotland

            Michael those men carried out their controversial decisions not in Scotland but at Westminster.

            But yes you have a point Scots, as part of the union, fought, in the likes of Crimea, Belgium and the first and second Boer wars.

            However times change, I recall George Washington fought first for the British, in the French/Indian wars. Washington then went on to fight against the British.

    • fred

      Don’t you think people’s right to self determination is worth defending?

      The people of Gibraltar want to be British, they do not want to be Spanish, if Spain were to try and use force to make them be Spanish don’t you think Britain should defend them?

      • reel guid

        So all you can think of is a Europe that has gone back to settling disputes through warfare. The avoidance of all that was one of the main reasons, perhaps the main reason why the European project was initiated sixty years ago. By Winston Churchill and others.

        Churchill, the son of empire, had come to see that pan- European political institutions were the only way for Europe to go. It’s still as necessary today as back in 1950s Europe. Arguably even more necessary.

        • fred

          The right of self defence is enshrined in international law. Few would argue if a nation’s citizens were attacked they wouldn’t have the right to defend them. If Spain sent armed soldiers over the border into Gibraltar are you saying Britain wouldn’t have the right to send in troops to defend the people?

        • michael norton

          The European Union is an Empire, same as The United States of America is an Empire, same as “Communist” China is an Empire, same as The U.S.S.R. was an Empire.
          Scots have always been at the centre and to both sides of
          The British Empire,
          I doubt if England could have managed to hold it together with out Scots.

        • Dave Lawton

          “So all you can think of is a Europe that has gone back to settling disputes through warfare. The avoidance of all that was one of the main reasons, perhaps the main reason why the European project was initiated sixty years ago. By Winston Churchill and others. ”
          Yes Europe just settles other country`s disputes by bombing them.

      • Dave

        I agree Britain has a legal and moral duty to defend Gibraltar (who hold British passports) by negotiating a good deal with Spain and a good deal suits all sides, because Gibraltar would be consumed if any conflict arose and thus there would be no prize left worth the cost of winning! We did leave Kashmir and Palestine in a mess due to a rush from Empire due to our crushing defeat in WWII, but modern disputes like Gibraltar can be resolved amicably with a bit of imagination (diplomacy) over time, as long as the flag wavers don’t want to destroy the village to save it.

      • jake

        There were just as many people in camps in and around calais who wanted to be british…there was no talk of defending their interests or their rights to self determination.

        • michael norton

          That is because
          GERMANY has identified a further seven million people waiting to enter the European Union.

        • fred

          “There were just as many people in camps in and around calais who wanted to be british…there was no talk of defending their interests or their rights to self determination.”

          There was no talk of making them become Spanish when they didn’t want to be either.

    • Loony

      …or maybe it shows how far you have deteriorated.

      No member of the British political classes called for war with Spain in 1936. Shortly thereafter all members of the British political classes called for war with Germany.

      Whilst we are on a Spanish love fest recall that the Falange (the heirs to Franco) polled around 30,000 votes at the last election. By contrast the racist, xenophobic, intolerant, bigoted English only managed 1,667 votes for the BNP (the heirs to no-one)

      • reel guid

        Loony

        You could also mention the more than 3.6 million votes UKIP got in England in the 2015 election.

        They might not be as right wing as the BNP but they’re not so very far removed.

        Scotland only gave UKIP 47 thousand votes in 2015.

        So England has about ten times the population of Scotland but had about eighty times the UKIP vote that Scotland had.

        • Loony

          If you are equating UKIP with the Falange then you need help.

          Did Franco not opine that in order to gain control of all of Spain he was willing to kill half of the Spanish population. I do not recall Nigel Farage ever mentioning an interest in killing half of the UK population.

          Whilst Franco never actually managed to kill 50% of the Spanish population he did kill a lot, and he did imprison an torture a lot more. You should check out the history of Franco era – It does not make for pleasant reading and it manifestly does not invite parallel’s with UKIP.

          • reel guid

            I’m fairly well read in the history of Franco’s Spain thank you.

            Nor did I equate UKIP with the Falange.

          • Habbabkuk

            Reel guid

            I suspect Loony and I are better read than you are. As I said to Gyles Brandreth-imitator “Republicofscotland” : stick to Scotch affairs!

          • reel guid

            Habba

            Well I’d say there’s more than a whiff of The Reader’s Digest about Loony so I’d venture that he has read that august journal more than I.

            Where you’re concerned I’ve really no idea.

          • reel guid

            Really?. What policies – social, environmental, military, geopolitical, economic, ethical – do they have in common?

          • fred

            They are both nationalist separatist parties which have representatives at an institution they want to see destroyed, UKIP want Britain out of Europe yet have MEPs at the European parliament and the SNP claim Westminster is undemocratic yet have MPs there.

          • H

            Reel guid

            “Really?. What policies – social, environmental, military, geopolitical, economic, ethical – do they have in common?”
            __________________

            Some on here would be happy to answer you – if only the SNP would tell us clearly what its policy intentions in many important fields actually are!

        • D_Majestic

          Well reel guid seems to post much of relevance here-and has never asked me about my lunch. Since I am also pretty well-read on the matter of Franco the idiot and Philip the Prudent, maybe we will watch out for accuracy and diversions.

      • Razhan

        Official numbers for Falange in the last Spanish elections are 7591. To be fair, it has increased as it was 2898 in the previous ones.

  • Republicofscotland

    “Theresa May has described the decision to drop the word Easter from the name of Cadbury and National Trust egg hunts as “absolutely ridiculous”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39487307

    Yes John Cadbury was a Quaker, ergo he didn’t celebrate Easter, but surely the term “Easter” egg is a much loved phrase, and still significant in certain sections of society.

    In my opinion it’s faux pas by Cadbury’s, and it may backfire on them in the form of lower sales, of their much loved chocolate eggs.

    • reel guid

      Michael Howard wants to send in the Cavalry.

      Theresa May wants to send in the Calvary.

      These Tories!

    • Steven Newbury

      What amuses me is that “Easter” is named after Ēastre, the Goddess of the Dawn. While many Christians claim Bede invented the Goddess, etymological, linguistic and folk traditions give her a lot of credence, certainly more than any association between bunnies and the Christ God.

      Over the last couple of millennia, the corruption of our leaders and powerful economic and diplomatic influence from post-imperial Rome allowed Christian proselytism to employ Interpretatio Christiana to steal our heritage and customs that had survived Romanisation, and compromise our values and morality. I guess what goes around comes around.

      Furthermore, it’s my opinion, most of the problems we face today are the inevitable result of this process, initially as it applied to the West, and ultimately the world. We all integrated the lessons we learnt in our rewritten cultural histories though the Crusades of the “Holy Land”, Empire building, Internecine European competition and conflict, Global Economic/Ecological Dominion, World Wars, and modern resource wars, current Climate Destabilisation. We follow the script, we the chosen people, we all believe it applies to our Nation, our people. What could possibly go wrong?

    • michael norton

      Syria conflict: ‘Chemical attack’ in Idlib kills 58

      3 minutes ago
      From the section Middle East

      Ministry of Truth

  • Dave

    Although the outcome of the Falklands war favoured Thatcher, the war itself was an accident and was waged by Thatcher as a high risk gamble to save herself from having to resign. The foreign office was trying to negotiate a deal with the Argentinians, but there was flag waving during the Argentinian elections with threats to invade. This was dismissed as “electioneering” by the Foreign Office (so no counter-threats to warn them off, to avoid upsetting them) but by coincidence due to another cost cutting exercise the ‘Falkland’s naval defence ship’ was withdrawn. Hence the perceived ‘invite’ to invade!

    The victory was a fluke and rested on a bluff that the conscript Argentinian soldiers would all be killed with weapons we didn’t have and they surrendered. But Thatcher’s enhanced popularity due to the victory allowed her to survive, with the Foreign Secretary taking the blame and resigning for the initial disaster instead.

    And the legacy of the Falkland’s war is any Spanish threats to Gibraltar have to be taken seriously and Gibraltar status can only be resolved with a keep calm over time approach, which in practice suits everyone.

    • Republicofscotland

      Dave.

      It’s a sad indictment, that more Falkland’s War veterans have killed themselves, after the war than actually died during the war.

      I see the press has roped Simon Weston into the Gibralter debacle, and the Sun newspaper has on its front page (according to Sky news) “Up Yours Senors.”

      All very tasteful indeed. ?

      • Alcyone

        Ffs, it’s GibraltAr. Did you not have an education, or are you merely enrolled with the University of Wiki for a BCP (Bachelors in C&P)?

        Are people in their second childhood still classified as mature students?

        • Republicofscotland

          Yes reel guid.

          All very non Krishnamurti like, but then again Alycone’s idol wasn’t all that he claimed to be.

          Radha Sloss’s mother was Krishnamurti’s clandestine lover for some twenty-five years, and the slow dissolution of that romance, was followed by a series of bitter legal battles over money and property initiated by the Krishnamurti Foundation and directed against Radha Sloss’s father, Rajagopal.

          • Alcyone

            “Are people in their second childhood still classified as mature students?”

            Apparently not, given how puerile they are. You should learn to say thank you when you learn something new. And your answer is so predictable–LOL–do you even C&P your own replies? Anyway, so happy you have made a new friend on the board.

            Also, Mary is secretly laughing at you RoSy–the other day she was pointing out the same uneducated spelling as I did re the Beeb, but she loves you too. The same second-hand/childhood-human-beings club.

          • reel guid

            Nicla Sturgon is mad cos shez caling another refferendim and is powr mad cos sheez got no vote to sey can but iff it hapens the Snp ar host by owen pettard cos England has al the mony.

          • Alcyone

            I like to make sure you’re reading; it’s the only way you’ll ever learn.

            Under my skin? Perish the thought Typhoid Mary or even April Showers.

        • kart

          Alcyone,

          There is no apostrophe in the word ‘its’.

          Makes your tantrum even more embarrassing.

      • Phil the ex-frog

        Republicofscotland
        “more Falkland’s War veterans have killed themselves, after the war than actually died during the war.”

        Can you point to a source for this? Cause my seconds of searching suggest this is a myth originating in a unsubstantiated claim in a Mail on Sunday article.

        • Republicofscotland

          Phil.

          “The Falklands War continues to claim lives more than one quarter of a century after the battle for the islands ended as the suicide rate among Argentine veterans continues to rise.”

          “Forty-four-year-old Gabriel Sagasfume lost the soles of his feet to frostbite in the trenches: The military didn’t have enough boots and many recruits were sent to war in just loafers or sandals. A total of 450 Argentinian Falklands veterans have commited suicide since the war — more than died during the actual fighting.”

          http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-475287.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

          QI, also makes a similar claim.

          http://qi.com/feed

          “An estimated 264 Falklands veterans have committed suicide since the conflict ended, compared with 255 soldiers killed in action, according to an ex-servicemen’s organisation.”

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shocking-suicide-toll-on-combat-veterans-1746475.html

          A couple of links Phil, but you do make a very good point.

        • Node

          Cause my seconds of searching suggest this is a myth

          My seconds of research suggest it is the MOD who are calling it a myth.
          Daily Mail vs MOD. Take your pick.

          • Phil the ex-frog

            RoS
            “A couple of links Phil, but you do make a very good point.”

            Well actually you provide three links. Let’s look at them.

            De Spiegel

            A total of 450 Argentinian Falklands veterans have commited suicide since the war — more than died during the actual fighting.

            Ah, OK I had assumed you meant UK veterens but fair enough. However, this is still nonsense. First they are only quoting the opinion of one ex soldier. Hardly proof. Especially when you take into account that the 450 claimed suicides is far less than the total number of Argentinian deaths in combat. Which was ~650.

            If you did mean the combined UK and Argentinian vets and even if we accept the “estimated” higher figure of UK suicides (which is far from clear – see below) then your assertion is still false.

            QI
            A TV celebrity panel show? Really, that’s you’re proof? Made even more hilarious by the fact that the link you gave leads to a page which says nothing about the Falklands war or veteren suicides.

            Independent

            An estimated 264 Falklands veterans have committed suicide since the conflict ended, compared with 255 soldiers killed in action, according to an ex-servicemen’s organisation.

            One line admitting it is estimated by an unnamed organisation? Hardly convincing. The original MoS article also failed to identify the organisation. I am trying to imagine how you might react to a claim critising the SNP that conceded doubt and was from an anonymous source. Can you honestly say you would not doubt the claim?

            Node says:

            Daily Mail vs MOD. Take your pick.

            Well no. You may feel obliged to take your pick but I don’t. I was asking for evidence for an assertion. Evidence isn’t a matter of taking a pick. And do you not find it a cause to pause for thought if your ‘pick’ is a laughable bullshit rag that you only believe when it coincides with your worldview?

            And as it happens it is not only a matter of MOD vs MoS. There are many other reports (including the Guardian, BMJ, Combat Stress Vets etc) which support the number of suicides being around 100. Hell, even the MoS in another report confirm 100. Where does that leave your reliance on it as evidence?

            You could not even be arsed to find the name of the organisation which made this claim. Well, FYI it was the South Atlantic Medal Association. Even at the time they accepted their figure was an estimate. Now it seems they prefer to not even mention it. A search of their web site for “suicide” returns zero results.

          • Node

            You could not even be arsed to find the name of the organisation ….

            I certainly can’t be arsed to address all the belligerent false assumptions you extrapolated from my simple point that I wouldn’t trust statistics from EITHER the Daily Mail OR the Ministry of Defence.

          • Habbabkuk

            Node

            To use one of Craig’s occasional expressions : you are an arse.

            Get caught out and you start ranting and launching ad hominems.

            I can see why you never respond to me – you’d get pukverised 🙂

          • Phil the ex-frog

            Node
            “I wouldn’t trust statistics from EITHER the Daily Mail OR the Ministry of Defence.”

            Calm down Node. Fair enough. I did confuse my response which was aimed at RoS but included your quote. Yet, you did say ‘take your pick’. You said nothing about not trusting either. Sometimes when we are misunderstood it’s worth considering ‘how well did I communicate what I meant to say’ rather than simply shout at the reader.

            You are still confused. To be clear: there were no statistics from the MoS. The MOD have documented their case (available online) but the MoS merely provided one sentence about an estimate from an anonymous source.

            Aaanyway, my point is not about the suicide rates of Falkland vets. When I first read RoS’s assertion I was entirely open to the idea. It took me seconds, as it did you, to find his case not proven. He went on to include Argentinians, again unquestioningly accepting what suited his prejudices, not even having the mind to check a simple basic foundation of his claim – Argentinian battle casualties. And so on. Such infantile mendacity dressed up as political debate! Yet you consider my misunderstanding your interjection as the problem worth shouting at. Ho hum.

    • nevermind

      close to 900 people died during the Falklands expeditionary war, now there are some tossers here who actually could envisage leaving Europe and starting a war with it at the same time, over some monkeys on the rocks and some other monkeys who invested in tax dodging.

      Britain has been hoodwinked because the agenda was always walking away, never did they actually want to work and earn their enormous wages, just as during the last few decades when they pretended to be part of the EU, but principally never got involved, never wanted to be part of a European dream never wanted to change policies for the better of their constituents who voted them into the EU parliament, party political mongers and losers.

      You voted on false pretences, listened to lies and political innuendo and didn’t realise that you would bust the union by voting to leave, you been had, sadly.

    • D_Majestic

      One I knew, sadly now no more, informed me that this country had no transport aircraft range-capable in the Falklands war. They had to hire some Hawker-Siddeley Tridents to cover the huge mileage.

      • Habbabkuk

        Well there you go – thank you for making the case for increased UK military spending (as proposed by the govt) with the aim of ensuring that the UK never finds itself in such a position again.

        Let’s face it, they (the US, Russia, China….) are all doing it: and so should the UK.

  • Republicofscotland

    Unsurprisingly the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, aka a wee disgruntled Syrian guy hiding in a clothes shop in Coventry, has claimed that the Syrian government, or Russian forces has used possibly Sarin gas on Syrian citizens killing at least 58 people.

    Does the SOHR have any credibility left?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39488539

    • Razhan

      One day after your post I have to say that yes, apparently the disgruntled guy has quite some credibility left

  • bevin

    An excellent summary of the story behind the story of “Russian interference” in the 2016 elections in today’s Counterpunch.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/04/04/the-real-russiagate/

    “We are now in a position to see the real story behind “Russiagate.” It’s not about Russia, except incidentally. The Obama regime abused the government’s surveillance powers and spied on Donald Trump and other Republicans in order to build a dossier for the DNC to leak to the press in an attempt to slander or compromise Trump and throw the election to Hillary.

    “They’ve been caught, but we can now see that they took steps to protect themselves against this. They prepared a cover story. They pretend they were not spying on Trump, but on Russians – which only by fortuitous happenchance turned up incriminating smoke against Trump….”

  • j almond

    Plenty disputed islands no where near Spain that they own like the canary islands, Perejil island.
    So i think your anti English rant is a bit rich and stupid.

  • bevin

    “…The EU had become indifferent to the democratic choices of its peoples, confident that treaties lock in the member states’ fundamental directions. Since the Brexit vote and Trump’s victory, politics has taken its revenge; a now febrile EU is watching every national election as if its life depends on it.”
    Serge Halimi on the French elections:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/04/04/unprecedented-politics-in-the-french-elections/
    “…Listening to Macron is like listening to Bill Clinton in the 1990s, or Tony Blair and Gerhard Schröder a few years later (3). Following him would mean pursuing that neoliberal-progressive ‘third way’ that beguiled the US Democratic Party and European social democrats even more than Hollande, and then brought them to their current dead end…”

    • michael norton

      Syriza MEP criticises ‘absurd demands’ from creditors

      Debate on Greek bailout programme

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Just jabbering endlessly on. UK voted to leave EU by less than 3%.

      Hope you wake up when the nuclear ash starts settling down from the coming war in the Far East.

      • michael norton

        RoS

        you had better get engaged with the programme,
        it is going to be the hardest of hard Brexit
        and you are coming with us, kicking and screaming
        makes no difference.

        • glenn_uk

          You keep drooling on about “hard brexit” as if it were a good thing. Do you have the slightest clue what that would involve?

      • Geoffrey

        RoS,
        A British person to has the right to stay in any other EU country providing they have a valid UK passport.

        The only requirement is that they register in the host country, have enough money to sustain themselves and have comprehensive health insurance.

        And your article goes on …they can even receive their UK pensions !

        Oh… the benefits of the EU for those poor unfortunate expats ! All 1.2 million of them. In fact the UK government picks up the medical tabs too for those who are uninsured.

        • nevermind

          no they don’t, Geoffrey, but the UK Government has to claim the money back, if they are too busy with self serving interests and or rah rah ing in the House, then the money won’t come back.
          But in two years time that will change, you will have to have a comprehensive insurance before holidaying abroad.

          Unless off course, the wrecksiteers actually mean to ‘get the best possible deal for UK citizens’.
          But we know they don’t, they are more interested what happens to finance and off-shoring.

  • Sharp Ears

    This gas that rightfully belongs to the Palestinians is being stolen by Israel and the EU.

    EU, Israel agree to develop Eastern Mediterranean gas pipeline
    4 Apr, 2017

    Three Mediterranean EU countries and Israel agreed on Monday to continue pursuing the development of a gas pipeline project that could link gas fields offshore Israel to Cyprus, Greece, and Italy, and potentially help the EU to diversify supplies away from Russia.

    The energy ministers of Cyprus, Israel, Italy and Greece agreed to initiate discussions on an intergovernmental accordance on the EastMed Pipeline, Greece’s Minister of Energy, Commerce, Industry and Tourism, Georgios Lakkotrypis tweeted on Monday after meeting with his counterparts in Israel.

    The pipeline could be completed in 2025, but the parties will try to speed up the project, Israeli Energy Minister Yuval Steinitz said after the meeting, as quoted by Reuters.’
    [..]
    According to Ruggeri, the pipeline would cost $5.3 billion (€5 billion) to reach the Greek gas system, and $6.4 billion (€6 billion) to reach the Italian system.

    IGI Poseidon – a 50/50 joint venture between Greece’s DEPA and Italy’s Edison SpA – said on Monday that it welcomed the support to the EastMed Pipeline Project given by Italian Energy Minister Carlo Calenda and Israeli Minister Steinitz and “confirms its endeavor to advance Project’s development activities in accordance with the existing European framework for expediting Project of Common Interest.”

    https://www.rt.com/business/383410-eu-israel-mediterranean-gas-pipeline/

    • nevermind

      Agreed, and that was the reason why Nafeez Ahmed was fired from the Guardian, for daring to suggest that the gas field 5 miles of the Ghazan coast could provide energy to Ghaza and Palestine for 50 years.

      This gas field is the only reason why Israel is patrolling the coast and shoots at fishermen and little children playing on the beach. Nobody cares about their robbing of land, resources and or the human rights breaches of this violent, Zionist led Apartheid state.

    • Habbabkuk

      Sharp Ears

      “This { off-shore } gas that rightfully belongs to the Palestinians is being stolen by Israel and the EU.”
      ________________________

      Really? There is no country called Palestine and therefore this non-existent country cannot have territorial waters and a continental shelf.

      Even if there were one day a country called Palestine – on what is presently called the West Bank – that country would not have a coastline because the West Bank does not have a coastline.

      You are therefore talking nonsense yet again.

      What you write could only make sense if you are thinking of the removal of Israel from the map and the installation of a country called Palestine in its place.

      Do you belong to the “sweep Israel into the sea brigade”?

      • Republicofscotland

        Habb.

        The Gaza Strip does have a coast line, but it appears to be a bit far South, however Lebanon could have a claim on the field.

        That’s probably why the oppressive rogue state of Israel has installed another layer of so called defence, with the aid of the US as usual specifically aimed at the Lebanon, under the guise of deterring missile attacks.

        Still even if oil and gas were found right on the Gaza Strips doorstep, the rogue state of Israel would claim it.

        As for Palestine and its existence several countries recognise it.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

  • Sharp Ears

    This gas that rightfully belongs to the Palestinians is being stolen by Israel and the EU.

    EU, Israel agree to develop Eastern Mediterranean gas pipeline
    4 Apr, 2017

    Three Mediterranean EU countries and Israel agreed on Monday to continue pursuing the development of a gas pipeline project that could link gas fields offshore Israel to Cyprus, Greece, and Italy, and potentially help the EU to diversify supplies away from Russia.

    The energy ministers of Cyprus, Israel, Italy and Greece agreed to initiate discussions on an intergovernmental accordance on the EastMed Pipeline, Greece’s Minister of Energy, Commerce, Industry and Tourism, Georgios Lakkotrypis tweeted on Monday after meeting with his counterparts in Israel.

    The pipeline could be completed in 2025, but the parties will try to speed up the project, Israeli Energy Minister Yuval Steinitz said after the meeting, as quoted by Reuters.’
    [..]
    According to Ruggeri, the pipeline would cost $5.3 billion (€5 billion) to reach the Greek gas system, and $6.4 billion (€6 billion) to reach the Italian system.

    IGI Poseidon – a 50/50 joint venture between Greece’s DEPA and Italy’s Edison SpA – said on Monday that it welcomed the support to the EastMed Pipeline Project given by Italian Energy Minister Carlo Calenda and Israeli Minister Steinitz and “confirms its endeavor to advance Project’s development activities in accordance with the existing European framework for expediting Project of Common Interest.”

    https://www.rt.com/business/383410-eu-israel-mediterranean-gas-pipeline/

  • RobG

    More nonsense, although it will be interesting watching the debate this evening…

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/04/all-11-french-presidential-candidates-clash-live-debate

    I love the way the MSM spin it, portraying most of the 11 French presidential candidates as cranks and nutters, whilst people in the UK and USA are given a choice between the red pill or the blue pill; two cheeks of the same arse.

    Oh, and don’t forget that the Russians are evilly manipulating it all behind the scenes.

    And don’t forget that the twerrorists are coming to get yer.

    Remember, you must swallow either the red pill of the blue pill.

  • Alcyone

    Well Norton, you were right about Typhoid Mary. You were witness to my trial balloon. I was testing the environment around here as I believe there maybe one or two protected species around. So, an innocuous question like ‘Has anyone here ever heard of Typhoid Mary?’ results in a deletion! My science works, QED.

    Anyhow, now here’s the story:

    “‘Susan Rice Is the Typhoid Mary of the Obama Administration’ ”

    “Cotton noted Rice’s involvement in this story and her involvement in what he suggested were other Obama administration foreign policy missteps and likened her to “Typhoid Mary.”
    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/04/04/tom-cotton-susan-rice-typhoid-mary-obama-administration/

    Listen to the radio interview.

    This bit just for our mods: Everything You Wanted to Know About Typhoid Mary But Were Afraid to Ask:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_Mary_(comics)

  • Alcyone

    And about Eli Lake who broke the story about Susan Rice:

    “Lake was one of the first reporter to challenge the Obama administration’s initial claims in 2012 that the 9-11 anniversary attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi was not connected to al Qaeda.[23][24] His reporting earned praise from both conservatives and liberals.[25][26]”

    and

    “Regarding U.S. attempts to try Wikileaks head Julian Assange under the Espionage Act of 1917, Lake has said: “I oppose the application of the espionage statute to Assange because the same kind of prosecution would make me a criminal too.”[49][50]”

    • Loony

      Perhaps the most important thing about Eli Lake is that he did NOT break the story about Susan Rice. Rather Eli Lake together with the NYT both had the story and both decided not to publish it.

      Only after Mike Cernovich (subject of a recent 60 Minutes expose into the cult of fake news) broke the story did Eli Lake provide corroboration that Cernovich was correct.

      I wonder what else Bloomberg, the NYT and the other fake news outlets are sitting on. It is also strange how the BBC does not seem to afford this story prominence especially when their current stance is contrasted with their obsessive interest in the entirely fake stories regarding the urination habits of Donald Trump.

  • michael norton

    nuther nail in the coffin of Nuclear Power
    in the U.K.

    French firm Engie backs out of Moorside nuclear plant venture

    As the Government hunts new investors for the proposed Moorside nuclear plant, one French backer exercises its right to pull out.

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