The news from Manchester continues to horrify as each individual tragedy gets confirmed in all its heart-rending detail.
In my two posts in the immediate aftermath of the Manchester bombing, I concluded:
If it was a home made bomb, it was a remarkably powerful one. It would be very unusual for a lone terrorist to be able to make a bomb this powerful. It is hard to think of any incident where an individual acting entirely alone has successfully done that.
It has become plain that the reason the critical warning has been declared (which is British for State of Emergency) is that the security services believe such a powerful portable bomb almost certainly requires organisational support to build it. I was subject to accusations that I was secretly suggesting that this attack was perpetrated by the British state, in order to influence the election. It is undoubtedly true that the timing of the attack is remarkable – it came as Tory poll ratings were plummeting, Theresa May had just made the screeching U-turn or pretended U-turn on social care, and then appeared totally out of her depth in the Andrew Neil interview, destroying her “who do you trust” narrative.
In fact, nothing I wrote can in any way be construed as indicating I thought that the British state was implicated in the attack. For the record, I do not think it is remotely likely the British state was implicated in the attack. I knew a lot of senior people in the security services, and a few in special forces, and there is not a single one I suspect would do this kind of thing, or not actively seek to stop it if they came across it. I simply discount the idea.
But the election is the elephant in the room. We cannot pretend this has no impact on the election. Historians will look back at how this did or did not affect the course of the election.
I have a number of concerns. The first is that I argued that the Russian referendum in Crimea was not legitimate because you can’t have a free and fair election with troops patrolling the streets. I still hold that view about the Crimea, and I have real concerns about proceeding with the election during, in effect, a state of emergency.
The second point is that, because I rule out a British government false flag, that does not mean that I rule out the idea that the timing of the attack was an attempt to affect the course of the election. It seems very likely that it was timed to affect the election, especially when you consider that an attack from the same kind of jihadists occurred in France just before their recent election.
You would have expected an attack with such a sophisticated bomb to be part of a pattern of more or less simultaneous attacks using similar technology. That is what the security services did expect; hence the “Critical” warning. The fact there has so far been only one attack suggests to me that it was brought forward quickly to a target of opportunity due to the snap election.
There are many non-British state and non-state groups which might wish to influence the election. Remember that the very definition of terrorism is violence with a political objective. If it does not have a political objective it is not terrorism. Let me make this observation. The ideology of virtually all “Islamic” terrorism stems from Saudi Arabia. Wahhabism is fundamental to the very foundation of the rule of the Saudi royal family. Every known jihadist terrorist group, including ISIS, Al-Nusra, and Al-Qaeda, has received funding from Saudi Arabia. Here is a fascinating article by MI6’s Alastair Crooke on Wahhabism and the “duality” of the superficially hostile ISIS/Saudi relationship. Everything we know about Salman Abedi is consistent with this influence.
Jeremy Corbyn has continually criticised Saudi Arabia’s appalling human rights record and its devastating attacks on civilians in Yemen. Corbyn has vowed to stop arms supplies to Saudi Arabia. By contrast, Theresa May and her ministers have repeatedly visited Saudi Arabia and positively kowtowed to its rulers, and looked to increase arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Who do you think the Saudi ruling class, the World’s leading sponsors of terrorism, wish to win the General Election?
Furthermore a key part of the Saudi sponsored Sunni terrorist surge is support for Al-Nusra and the other jihadist rebel groups fighting to overthrow Assad in Syria. I do not support Assad, but neither have I ever thought it remotely sane to support a violent conflict to overthrow him and replace him with jihadist head-choppers. Yet the British establishment, and especially the Conservative Party, has been gung-ho to bomb Syria and help the jihadists to replace Assad.
Who has stood against the bombing of Syria and against British military support for the Saudi/jihadist agenda in Syria? Jeremy Corbyn and the SNP.
I have no doubt whatsoever the jihadists would try to influence the election, and try to influence it against Corbyn. As the great journalist John Pilger said yesterday of this possibility that ISIS are trying to influence the election against Corbyn and the SNP:
“They know how to intervene in public discourse every day and in politics every day. So that suggestion may well have a great deal of validity.”
Security issues traditionally play well for the right in an election. At time of attack there is a tendency to rally to authority figures. Rather than a very inadequate politician under fire, the Prime Minister has been able to appear in an entirely unchallenged setting as a figure of patriotism. Let me be 100% clear. It is not that May has done anything wrong; it is just that these effects are what the terrorists are probably counting on.
So in our hearts we must never forget the unfortunate victims of this bombing, so young and with so much talent. We must remember the horribly maimed as well as the dead, and ensure they receive all the support they need. We must condemn without ceasing the disgusting violence that destroys so many lives.
But we must also do something very difficult. We must press in our heads a reset button. We must remain entirely rational in considering the political choices before us, and not allow the incident to affect – in any direction – our political calculation on how to vote. Otherwise that is a major victory for the terrorists.
The Telegraph reports that there were five reports made to the security services about Abedi with zero response.
Five.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
It is not as if Sir Ian Blair wasn’t lying to our faces saying there are hundreds of extremists plotting these atrocities. There aren’t.
I don’t buy the incompetence line one bit. The guy was crossing borders freely.
Break the taboo, call it what it is.
People are by nature changeable. It is easy to persuade them about some particular matter, but it is hard to hold them to that persuasion. Hence it is necessary to provide that when they no longer believe, they can be forced to believe.
Machiavelli
Jesus, 9/11 over again.
I heard recently that American pilots call children in the Middle East, “FUN SIZED TERRORISTS”.
Stop terrorists by stopping the supply of bullets. We can’t take the guns off them.
Tax the turnover of the tax dodgers at source.
rachel, Craig Murray has some political views that I completely disagree with, and he or his moderators, delete nearly everything I write, but he is one of the most honest public figures I have ever come across. He may well occasionally tell little fibs, but I’ve never caught him at it.
Why did you write that? What evidence do you have?
The Libya/Manchester link is now too obvious for the BBC to ignore, so they have put up a heavily redacted version of the story, minus any mention of MI5 waving these guys off at the airport.
I have written to TODAY, asking why they don’t address the bigger picture.
I am not holding my breath.
Watch AJ and RT (and CNN?) if you want to see probing questions being asked.
I recommend CNN news.
At the moment it is much more entertaining than UK news channels.
@ Bobm May 25, 2017 at 20:28
I recommend: :http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewforum.php?f=4
But then again, I would, wouldn’t I?
Maybe, cos of Manchester, some of those kids may have been related to me, but more because I wanted to show a photo of my Dad to my Son, and a bloke down the pub who really is the spittin’ image…I found amongst all this stuff when I was 15, all my classes exam results. This was just a bog standard Secondary Modern – not a posh school. We not only studied for The GCE “O” Level – but also the then new CSE. Two diferent examinations – two different courses, sets of books – all at the same time.
It was tough then – but we all had a brilliant education.
We did really well.
I can remember them all as if it was yesterday.
“Bryan Adams – Summer of 69”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f06QZCVUHg
Tony
David Dimbleby presents Question Time from Salford in Greater Manchester.
BBC 1 QT 22.45 tonight
On the panel are Home Secretary Amber Rudd
Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham
Anti-extremism campaigner Sara Khan
Head of the Police and Crime Commissioners Association Nazir Afzal
Peace campaigner Colin Parry.
A dirty world a corrupt country.
London 7/7, Miriam Hyman.
Shot at Canary Wharf.
Found beside the No 30 bus at Tavistock square.
Excellent piece, Craig.I share your view that the British state was not involved.
However, what we can surmise is that unless the timing was a complete coincidence, whoever was behind the attack favours Theresa May over Jeremy Corbyn.
That is utterly at odds with both the official narrative about Isis, and the official narrative about the Conservative Party.
So even though the British state was not involved in the atrocity, there are British people in our institutions and media who are deliberately pulling the wool over people’s eyes about the nature of this attack and shutting down any debate. It is also sinister that terrorism was a central plank of the Conservative campaign against Jeremy Corbyn immediately preceding this atrocity.
Then we think of the Jo Cox murder, which also appears to have been intended to influence the EU referendum. And we have to conclude that our democracy is being compromised by some very wicked people who are trying to pass the blame on to others, while our own institutions are too frightened to investigate properly.
Jo Cox was part of the Babylon of voices that condemned the terrorist violence in Syria, but refused to make the link between terrorism and western states. Our great USUKIS institutions actually believe that anybody who accuses them of misfeance will be considered mad. So that’s them out the way. Then there are the people who appeal to humanity and human dignity. These people obstruct the course of injustice and they are topped as easily as farmer shoots a crow.
The lesson I have learnt from Mr Murray over the years is that it’s safer to state what your government believes is arrant nonsense, than to get your hands dirty in the emotions of it all. USUKIS are war criminal murderers straight. It makes no difference whatsoever to them if they are shedding foreign blood abroad or UK innocent blood in the UK. They are trying to control the emotional narrative, to make us choose strong and stable daleks as leaders , not thinking human beings like Jeremy Corbyn. If it was my blog , I’d ban Craig for writing the bollocks he’s written today above.
She was a big fan of the White Helmets.
I would welcome links Soothmother.
Incidentally I am not Habbabkuk and may use them in an article if they can be verified.
There should be articles John. I’m certain I read of Jo Cox’s backing for the White Helmets.
i.e.Jo Cox.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/12/jo-cox-white-helmets-peace-prize-coventry
Not only that, even the Labour Party now seems to support the WHs.
Thanks SA.
I don’t believe any UK politician ordered extraordinary rendition either. Rah rah. Vote Conservative on May 8 !
Craig, How long would you have wanted the hunted Crimeans to wait before holding a referendum that would result in their protection? You imply that the troops patrolling in the streets (?) were an impediment to Crimeans, most of whom are already Russian speaking and culturally closer to Russian than Kiev, choosing truly. I’ve never seen a hint that your idea holds water. And if you’re so concerned about pernicious militaries, Why do you have a link to war-monger Juan Cole on your blog?
Arby,
Maybe Craig has some blind spots, or maybe Craig like John Pilger, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, realises how evil these people are, and they just want to stay alive.
Crossing some boundaries can be fatal.
Don’t criticise him for that. All these people do some amazing stuff, risking their lives,
They are not like Juan Cole.
Tony
‘Manchester Mourns as the Right Attempts to Tie Labour’s Corbyn to Terrorism’, Richard Seymour
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=19172#.WSb5tnXBpaU
Let’s admit it. Al Qaida knows better than any of us that USUKIS are not to be trusted. But they now possess a stockpile of new deadly weapons kindly donated by USUKIS for the purposes of colonialism, which they can turn against the West. This is called the West eating its own vomit. We formed the ideologies which are counter to the truth of Islam, we made the groups, we armed them and we called them moderate in the US and UK parliaments and United Nations in order to overwhelm the Middle East, ransack its wealth and brutalise its citizens. Well done us.
So even if, which I very much doubt, Senator McCunt was photoshopped with Shimon Elliott alias Baghdadi, and even if ‘Fuck the EU’ was dubbed and these neo-con shite are far removed from these terrorist repercussions of their undying stupidity in creating Al Qaida and Islamic State, they allowed the rape and torture and homeless ness of the Syrian people, the human sacrifices filmed by Daesh, the rhetoric of enslaving women to their shared lusts. I can’t see the difference. I do understand why Craig feels the necessity to offer a tiny fig-leaf the Classical greek sized penises of these cowards who rule us, who set up terror in the Muslim countries while leaving us here fed and safe. He is dreaming of being independent Scottish Ambassador to the UN or EU. It’s a nice dream. And you do have to prove you’re one of us to the criminals in power. But I don’t see any difference myself between arming terrorists and murdering children at pop concerts.
They condoned, not allowed. As an internationalist, I see no difference between Muslim Middle Eastern and UK kids. They did not condone, they did it by their own hands. I can see it’s a waste of time contributing to the discussion here when the owner of the blog is engaged in politics himself.
Not to be trusted and beliving this is not a false flag aren’t necessarily in opposition. I don’t think he means just trust the state.
This is his view, that’s all.
Other than that ok, points noted.
giyane,
not photoshopped. you are writing well..I can feel and sense your anger at our betrayal. Try The Saker or Thierry Meyssan. Craig is rapidly catching up. He’s a good lad.
You’re a Good Spark
Tony
Looked at Telegraph map of Britain after 2015 election. England mostly all blue, but one big red heart stands out. Manchester. Keep the faith Manchester.
The army have some face don’t they? Are the issued with a new brain every day?
Unlike most of the population they surly know the wider context of what’s going on. How do they stand so straight I wonder?
Some face.
Ishmael,
When you are young, you want a guitar, a motorcycle, a job, a girl, a fast car, and respect. You may also want a gun, and you may also join the army. You have simply got to burn off this adrenaline, which is programmed into you. Its in your genes. If you want a gun – a real gun – then some join the army (both my older brothers did this – well TA) They got over it and never had to fight in wars.
Do not expect teenagers now to be any wiser. They join the army, and do not have a clue what is really going on – except when they are in some god forsaken war zone – with a few of their mates – almost certain they are going to die – as they see their friend’s head blown off right next to them. They didn’t realise it was going to be like this – they just liked the computer game.
Tony
Sry missed this reply.
Think you missed the point, Many IN the army know what going on. They are culpable.
Ishmael,
I didn’t miss the point, and you didn’t miss my reply.
How Many?
Personally I think most people are brainwashed and stupid – including most of our politicians…
Where is my ex MP now – Micheal Meacher. We all thought he would learn from Robin Cook. The daft bugger couldn’t keep his mouth shut.
Tony
Point taken.
Quite a few obviously don’t know much. Maybe the major part because they could not function otherwise.
But that’s not right Tony, Following orders is not an excuse, and they should have been educated to know this. It’s quite clear about invasion of a sovereign state. They SHOULD know better than anyone.
sigh, …This is a crime on them also…….’Generals, see my dead house.
Tony,
Latest Yougov poll has Labour 59%, Conservative 22% in the 18-24 age group.
Tory lead is down to 5% overall UK wide. Lead was down to about 2-3% on the day prior to Manchester bombing.
In the 25-49 group Labour are ahead 48% to 31%. Only the over 50s are keeping the Conservatives ahead in the polls. 65+ is Tories 67%, Labour 19%
squonk,
If I vote, it will be for her and I’ve not yet met either of them..but I have heard Theresa Speak ..i went down the pub and asked my mate – if he wrote “THAT” he looked squeamish and embarrassed as if to say no it wasn’t me.
I forget the name of the Labour Party Candidate – but she seems a nice Girl. She almost certainly won’t be elected, but if I vote, I will vote for her.
If she gets in – they won’t believe it.
Tony
a soldiers job is to follow orders without question they only know what they need to know, it’s not some big conspiracy they’re all in on.
O come on. Many of them served in Iraq, or know those what did…As they know what went down in Libya, etc etc.
Iv been on their chat forums. Seen them on twitter. They know just what they are involved in “iraq the prize” i.e. oil and recourses.
Don’t labotomise yourself in front to me. It’s really not nice to see.
What the hell are you on about.
Don’t rise to it.
Can you point me to this hard left, anyone, who said this is a legitimate response?
Your the sort it who tries to legitimize violent retribution. I mean that is the right wing, he is your kin.
Your the sort * who
?
don’t ask.
Anon1, you often write sense, and I do respect your political position, but you seem somewhat blind to what has really being going on for the last 16 years. Maybe you are even older than me, but mine still works a bit. It took even The Saker many years to get it – and he is much cleverer than me.
If we can’t deal with the evidence, which reveals the truth – or as close as we can get – then the human race has no future.
We have got to bring these War Criminals to Trial in a Court of Law. The evidence is overwhelming. Maybe you can’t see it, but most of the world can. They can tell the difference between good and evil – an honest man and a liar – God and The Devil.
Not all are so brainwashed.
Tony
Is that the same Saker who said Ukrainian was a village dialect as the basis for establishing Greater Russia and is into all that Jewsih conspiracy shit? If so I think you may be insulting your own intelligence.
Mods
More than happy to support my claims about Saker – go and look at his website if you don’t believe me. Remember Craig expects us to expose and ridicule such people rather than promote them.
resident dissident,
i have issues with the saker too. i do not agree with everything he writes, and the way his website is controlled. i have no problems with moderators deleting my entire comment. that is quite normal. i don’t think i have banned there yet – but i have come close….but it is his website and i try to obey his rules. he really does not like capitals…and i have historically used a lot of them…
sometimes when i write there…before posting – pressing the send button, i go through the entire thing – like this.
his book is brill by the way. its enormous – full of typos and mistakes. i think the bloke is a genius, a nice person and as honest as anyone can be. i would love to meet him.
scott humor is even weider and I’d love to meet him too
So far as I am aware these Russians (well their parents and grandparents were) were largely educated in the USA – and still live there.
Tony
Anon1,
Now you are probably right, but the number of Islamic fanatics, was incredibly low throughout most of my lifetime. The IRA were a problem, but there were no serious wars, that we were directly involved in – or so I thought until I read the book. Cost £10.68 in paper. Mark Curtis is hardly likely to make it up is he?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Affairs-Britains-Collusion-Radical/dp/1846687640
“The updated edition of Secret Affairs covers the momentous events of the past year in the Middle East. It reveals the unreported attempts by Britain to cultivate relations with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt after the fall of Mubarak, the military intervention on the side of Libyan rebel forces which include pro-al-Qaeda elements, and the ongoing reliance on the region’s ultimate fundamentalist state, Saudi Arabia, to safeguard its interest in the Middle East.
In this ground-breaking book, Mark Curtis reveals the covert history of British collusion with radical Islamic and terrorist groups. Secret Affairs shows how governments since the 1940s have connived with militant forces to control oil resources and overthrow governments. The story of how Britain has helped nurture the rise of global terrorism has never been told.”
But surely Blair and Bush used to pray tp their god together? But when it comes to Killing in the Name of Religion and Nationhood, Christians Hold the Modern Record:
http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/when-it-comes-to-killing-in-the-name-of-religion-and-nationhood-christians-hold-the-modern-record/17929-when-it-comes-to-killing-in-the-name-of-religion-and-nationhood-christians-hold-the-modern-record
Please feel free to provide links to the contrary Anon1.
The atrocity in Manchester was given a minute’s national silence today, but there is not a murmur when Hellfire missiles rain down on wedding parties all over the Middle and Near East. No names. The US is usually ‘investigating’.
December 29, 2001,Paktia Province, Afghanistan (more than 100 revelers die in a village in Eastern Afghanistan after an attack by B-52 and B-1B bombers)
May 17, 2002, Khost Province, Afghanistan (at least ten Afghans in a wedding celebration die when US helicopters and planes attack a village)
July 1, 2002, Oruzgan Province, Afghanistan (at least thirty, and possibly forty, celebrants die when attacked by a B-52 bomber and an AC-130 helicopter)
May 20, 2004, Mukaradeeb, Iraq (at least forty-two dead, including “27 members of the [family hosting the wedding ceremony], their wedding guests, and even the band of musicians hired to play at the ceremony” in an attack by American jets)
July 6, 2008, Nangarhar Province, Afghanistan (at least forty-seven dead, thirty-nine of them women and children, including the bride, among a party escorting that bride to the groom’s house—from a missile attack by jet aircraft)
August 2008, Laghman Province, Afghanistan (sixteen killed, including twelve members of the family hosting the wedding, in an attack by “American bombers”)
June 8, 2012, Logar Province, Afghanistan (eighteen killed, half of them children, when Taliban fighters take shelter amid a wedding party. This was perhaps the only case among the eight wedding incidents in which the United States offered an apology
The US Has Bombed at Least Eight Wedding Parties Since 2001
Why are so many of our “surgical” strikes going so terribly wrong?
https://www.thenation.com/article/us-has-bombed-least-eight-wedding-parties-2001/
215 Palestinian children were killed within 30 minutes in Gaza by Hellfires as the children changed shifts at the overcrowded schools in December 2008. They were only Arabs, and the BBC would not have dwelled on it. No names, no minutes’ silence.
4 innocent boys playing football on a beach in Gaza were shot down and killed by Israeli fire from a gunship. July 2014 Operation Protective Edge! Nobody even knows their names except their parents and siblings.
The Basra Children’s Hospital and the General Hospital were bombed by the RAF in 1991. Perhaps they had it coming to them.
The Amiriya shelter – read Felicity Arbuthnot – in Iraq in 1991 within which hundreds of humans were incinerated. Nobody knows the exact number. An ‘enhanced radiation weapon’ was used.
‘ It is sixteen years since the Ameriyah Shelter in west Baghdad was bombed, incinerating all but eight, inside. Figures for the souls lost, still vary from four hundred and five to over twelve hundred, the registration book was incinerated along with those who had sought refuge, women, children, students and on occasion, the very old. The men stayed out to make room for those whom they wished protection – and to rescue others from the ongoing carpet bombing. The Shelter was only used over night.;
http://www.bellsouthcorp.com/the-ameriya-shelter-st-valentines-day-massacre/
A shocking eye witness account of her visit some months after the bombing.
Half a million children died in Iraq in the period 1991 – 2003 because of the draconian sanctions imposed by by the democracies of the US, UK and France.
The coverage from Manchester has not ceased since the murderous attack took place on Monday evening. It is Friday tomorrow. All those satellite vans are still in place and the presenters will have new scripts t on their autocues to read out.
Hypocrisy is as high as the twin towers before they came down.
SRR – The experts who train others to prepare and detonate explosives:
http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-reconnaissance-regiment/
Mark Golding. glad you are still here. I think I may have met some of the Hereford guys at
http://www.uptonfestival.co.uk/
And 10 years ago The Americans at
http://cambridgerockfestival.co.uk/
They never caused us much of a problem – and the Americans were extremely generous with their JD. I actually pointed out to them, that we were living together in this field for the next 4 days – and our mates are headlining Saturday night.
(I didn’t actually – but they were)
Tony
If you hold a rock festival very close to an American Air Force Base, you are likely to get a lot of Americans coming and even volunteering as “marshals”
What blew me away, is that one of these guys told me the truth. He was born in England a few miles away at a US Air Force Base. He was educated there at American Schools – and he spoke with a strong American accent…
I says – you are jokin’ mate..Are you serious?
You we were born and bred here in England – speak like an American, act like an American – and you have never been to the USA??????????????
My wife was not impressed with him…but I thought he was hilarious.
We were the best of mates after 4 days – and he was telling the truth…so far as I know.
No one makes that up….not when you are camping.
Tony
OPMOC. Place your diversions somewhere else. I for one am not interested in what the killers get up to in their spare time. You take the biscuit.
Well said.
Takes one to know one.
Fair enough, I think his characterisation of the two specimens of cretin he identifies is spot on myself. They post here quite a lot, and the site seems to one of the main hubs for their false-flag theories.
Now you’re quoting deluded depressive Israel PR man from Islington’s bizzare screeds! Oh dear Jim, you know NO ONE likes a liberal.
He’s got bloody good reason to be depressed if he actually is.
Back to the old Israel PR man schtick again? Give it rest.
I don’t know how much crap we have to face in the future Anon1 from people who I squarely condemn.
But while I do I will condemn just as strongly those in this society who actually (broadly) I think are worse, because they didn’t do it after someone killed their family or relatives, or destroyed there home. They did it for money. Following orders. Oil. You name it.
I don’t know the details of this case but yea, broadly think I agree with Norman Finkelsteins view on this one. However perverted (sickening) hitler was he acted out of some ideology. Not just bloody money.
He’s not, he’s beating himself up seems to me.
Absolute fact: Travis Frain was a crisis actor at the recent Westminster March 22nd, fabricated terror event. Travis Frain is said to be from the Lancashire area, and is linked in to local Tory party there. That points to Conservative party organisation of the fake terror in that event. That in itself should be a national scandal, enough to bring down Mrs May’s toxically corrupt government. The press operates simply as a vehicle of government.
The state constantly needs a bogeyman to scare and intimidate the populace. Isis is one of the bogeymen at present. A populace traumitised by a media that works as a metaphorical cattle prod to shock the good people of the country. Repetition is the key to the state’s lies as per GCHQ’s manual to repeat, repeat until they believe the lies.
Shame and disgrace on May.
I know he’s moderated me, which is fair enough, I overstepped the boundaries by my generalised slur on some of the contributors’ conspiracy theories, and worse the site itself as a popular online hub for their dissemination.
Apologies to Craig for that.
Pity Nick Cohens well argued piece went with the deletion though.
When did I hear you say a word about the many THOUSANDS of innocent children killed under US UK weapons? Or the half a million or so starved to death in Iraq?
Never. It’s still happening every day Anon1, you say nothing.
I think that speaks for itself.
Do you know, or even care to know their names? Are they printed on uk papers. …”This is what we did”
They weren’t even counted where they? let alone acknowledged as individual people with lives, souls of there own. With families who loved them so dearly. We could fill every paper for the next 100 years their are so many.
Yet when it happens to us it’s portrayed as coming out of clear blue sky.
I wonder if the police and army on the streets with machine guns are more to do with the government wanting to be seen to be ‘doing something’ rather than actual protection against terrorist attack?
It is a well-argued post. The greatest aid to a failing government is some cause to unite the nation, like Thatcher’s Falklands War. However, there is some niggling feeling in my mind that May does not want to be there to negotiate Brexit. She’s frightened even to take on Jeremy Corbyn in an open unscripted debate let alone try and get favourable terms in our departure from Europe (which is unwinnable whoever tries. Europe is not going to encourage other states to leave).
As to the following paragraph:
“I have a number of concerns. The first is that I argued that the Russian referendum in Crimea was not legitimate because you can’t have a free and fair election with troops patrolling the streets. I still hold that view about the Crimea, and I have real concerns about proceeding with the election during, in effect, a state of emergency.”
When you argued that I believe you were wrong. I think it reflects your inconsistency in drawing parallels between Scotland and Crimea, partly because the troops in Crimea were already stationed there and not introduced due to the US-funded coup. Debating this further would detract for the theme. A much better parallel would be drawn by comparing the US National Security Guard to some similar entity that might arise here where guns are an everyday occurrence on our streets.
These threat levels are total nonsense. You can raise them to whatever you want it does not bring back the deceased. Neither does it prevent future attacks of a similar nature. The United States has proved time and again that gun law only leads to more deaths with nobody ever finding out who done it.
John
Mrs May is not scared, she is totally manipulative. After the ultra right wing of her party unexpectedly ousted Cameron she announced that her ultra right wing view of the world had been voted for by the UK public.
This is the equivalent to someone complaining about hospital food and then being told there will be no food.
Her response to the question of UK foreign policy is that if we don’t like what William Hague called a slightly different foreign policy, i.e. openly using Islamists terrorists to colonise the Middle East, that terror will be imported here. Craig should buck up and accept that the sort of politician who existed in his time has already been disposed of , like him. Mrs May is a ruthless, uncaring hard-liner from the racist right wing.
She is almost certainly ruthless, but she is also quite ineffective as a debater. Calling this election could very well backfire on her. Hope so. It already appears to be backfiring.
Consider this: only 8 minutes after the Manchester Arena bomb was detonated a full – and detailed – Wikipedia page on the incident was uploaded. It was later amended so the edit history could not be seen for reasons of ‘potential vandalism.’
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Manchester_Arena_bombing
Since the upload, there’s been many additions. The question remains – who was responsible for the original upload?
“who was responsible for the original upload?”
That can easily be traced.
Tony Some more Here
http://www.globalresearch.ca/manchester-bombing-what-we-dont-know/5591844
The early edit history looks unremarkable; first entry at 22:51, 22 May 2017:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2017_Manchester_Arena_bombing&dir=prev&action=history
yes it is quiet amazing how fast the Wikipedia entry appeared when one considers that the Fire services, usually one of the first on site of a terror event, due to their local knowledge and expertise,
WERE HELD BACK 90 MINUTES.
Maybe our resident di/revisionist anon1 can tell us why their men, responding to an emergency drill normal in these situation, were ordered to not attend. They should not appear on the first entry of wikipedia.
The fire brigade were held back, until the all clear has been given by those experts that look for other devices that may still pose a threat within the risk area. Its routine in these circumstances. Things would have been different if there had been a fire or a building collapse. I am an ex firefighter.
Heads you’re a ‘Terrorist’, tails your a ‘Freedom Fighter’; depends on the government’s plans for the day.
”Sorted’ by MI5: How UK government sent British-Libyans to fight Gaddafi #LibyaCrisis ‘
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-br itish-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488
‘…Fighters say government operated ‘open door’ policy allowing them to join rebels, as authorities investigate background of Manchester bomber
A mural in Tripoli paying tribute to fighters from Manchester who joined the 17 February Martyrs’ Brigade during Libya’s revolution against Gaddafi (AFP)’ Amandla Thomas-Johnson
‘…
Several former rebel fighters now back in the UK told MEE that they had been able to travel to Libya with “no questions asked” as authorities continued to investigate the background of a British-Libyan suicide bomber who killed 22 people in Monday’s attack in Manchester.
Salman Abedi, 22, the British-born son of exiled dissidents who returned to Libya as the revolution against Gaddafi gathered momentum, is also understood to have spent time in the North African country in 2011 and to have returned there on several subsequent occasions.
British police have said they believe the bomber, who returned to Manchester just a few days before the attack, was part of a network and have arrested six people including Abedi’s older brother since Monday.
Home Secretary Amber Rudd has said that Abedi was known to security services, while a local community worker told the BBC that several people had reported him to the police via an anti-terrorism hotline.
Salman Abedi travelled to Libya during the country’s 2011 revolution (Police handout)
On Wednesday, authorities in Tripoli said that Abedi’s younger brother and father, who had resettled in Libya after the revolution, had also been arrested on suspicion of links to the Islamic State (IS) group, which claimed responsibility for Monday’s attack.
Sources spoken to by MEE suggest that the government facilitated the travel of Libyan exiles and British-Libyan residents and citizens keen to fight against Gaddafi including some who it deemed to pose a potential security threat.
‘No questions asked’
One British citizen with a Libyan background who was placed on a control order – effectively house arrest – because of fears that he would join militant groups in Iraq said he was “shocked” that he was able to travel to Libya in 2011 shortly after his control order was lifted.
“I was allowed to go, no questions asked,” said the source, who wished to remain anonymous.
He said he had met several other British-Libyans in London who also had control orders lifted in 2011 as the war against Gaddafi intensified, with the UK, France and the US carrying out air strikes and deploying special forces soldiers in support of the rebels.
“They didn’t have passports, they were looking for fakes or a way to smuggle themselves across,” said the source.
But within days of their control orders being lifted, British authorities returned their passports, he said.
“These were old school LIFG guys, they [the British authorities] knew what they were doing,” he said, referring to the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, an anti-Gaddafi Islamist militant group formed in 1990 by Libyan veterans of the fight against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
The British government listed the LIFG as a proscribed terrorist organisation in 2005, describing it as seeking to establish a “hard-line Islamic state” and “part of the wider Islamist extremist movement inspired by al-Qaeda”. Former members of the LIFG deny that the group had any links with al-Qaeda and say it was committed only to removing Gaddafi from power…..’
I wonder how many ‘children’ died because of the Western organised armed insurgency against Qadaffi? How many ‘children were left maimed, orphans, scavenging in waste bins for food?
How many people who abhor the Manchester ‘attack’ give a tuppeny damn about the Libyan kids, and their parents?
The highest standard of liiving in Africa, with free flats on marriage, free good-quality health care and education ( a small fee of £50 was charged, I believe, for University. And now? Where is Libya’s 143 tons of gold?
And the Luciferian bast*rds are trying to do the same to Syria, and Somalia, Sudan and then Iran. And, of course, Yemen.
Paul Barbara, someone bust your link – this one works for me now…but I haven’t posted it yet
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488
@ Tony_0pmoc May 26, 2017 at 01:41
Cheers Tony.
Even the BBC reports the mutable division between ‘terrorists’ and ‘freedom fighters’.
Al Qaeda in Syria – The Report
– Peter Oborne investigates claims that Britain and the West embarked on an unspoken alliance of convenience with militant jihadi groups in an attempt to bring down the Assad regime
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06s0qy9
Charges of terrorism dropped because the UK government was funding the very same groups as the ‘terrorists’ were going to join.
It can be deduced that killing in the name of god is endemic:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alon-benmeir/killing-in-the-name-of-go_b_3611883.html
You can talk all you want Anon1 but the evidence is against you.