Tories Losing Daily Mail Readers and in Disarray 222


You need to don a pretty hefty moral armour before immersing yourself in the comments section of the Daily Mail, but this general election has seen a huge disconnect between the toxic propaganda that the Daily Mail pumps out, and the views of its readers. I should make plain that historically there is no evidence whatsoever that the Mail’s more left wing readers are more likely to leave comment. The threads are usually dominated by strong support for the Tory/UKIP narrative. But this election campaign has seen growing evidence of swelling dissent from the Tory campaign and the line it is taking.

Tonight the Mail has posted as its headline political story, a claim by Amber Rudd that the election of Jeremy Corbyn would increase terrorism. This is pretty appalling, crude stuff set out in the way the Mail believes will appeal to its readers.

But the readers’ reaction is not at all what the Mail is expecting. The Mail has a useful system whereby people can both upvote and downvote a comment and both scores are shown. The most popular comment on this article is the pithy “While her boss sells arms to the Saudis” by Jill in Kent. A large majority of the comments abhor the Tory exploitation of the terror attacks. When even Daily Mail readers find you too tastelessly right wing, you really are in trouble.

The mainstream media continue to move in lockstep. After the social care debacle they appear determined to continue to push terrorism as the dominant issue in the election. The calculation is that perceived Tory strength on this issue will arrest the Tory slide, and it might be argued from recent opinion polls that the Tory decline has at least become less steep. But public distaste at this Tory shroud-waving will accelerate the longer it continues. Expect the media to try to shift the narrative again on Monday, probably back to Trident.

The Tories’ house magazine, the Spectator, has not waited until the election is over to turn on Theresa May. Again the comments sections are worth perusing – while paid-up Tories will still vote Tory, they are not happy at all. May’s paranoia and self-regard are reflected in her choice of dullards for her senior colleagues. The result is that many of the smarter people in her party are feeling excluded. That was not a problem when she was romping home on a carpet of media-induced artificial popularity. But now the going is getting tough, the Tory Party is not a happy place. To mishandle the campaign so badly the Tories are losing Daily Mail readers, is an act of extraordinary political ineptitude.

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222 thoughts on “Tories Losing Daily Mail Readers and in Disarray

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    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Of course, no mention of the British law about defamation, even if one is trying to tell the truth, or is talking about elite child-absusers

      The thing I most liked about the Duke of Wellington was his telling courtesan Harriette Wilson to publish, and be damned..

  • King of Welsh Noir

    For those curious why Habbabkuk wants Craig to close down comments, I recommend the fable by Aesop about the fox that lost its tail.
    Here it is so you don’t have to Google it:

    A Fox that had been caught in a trap, succeeded at last, after much painful tugging, in getting away. But he had to leave his beautiful bushy tail behind him.

    For a long time he kept away from the other Foxes, for he knew well enough that they would all make fun of him and crack jokes and laugh behind his back. But it was hard for him to live alone, and at last he thought of a plan that would perhaps help him out of his trouble.

    He called a meeting of all the Foxes, saying that he had something of great importance to tell the tribe.
    When they were all gathered together, the Fox Without a Tail got up and made a long speech about those Foxes who had come to harm because of their tails.

    This one had been caught by hounds when his tail had become entangled in the hedge. That one had not been able to run fast enough because of the weight of his brush. Besides, it was well known, he said, that men hunt Foxes simply for their tails, which they cut off as prizes of the hunt. With such proof of the danger and uselessness of having a tail, said Master Fox, he would advise every Fox to cut it off, if he valued life and safety.

    When he had finished talking, an old Fox arose, and said, smiling:
    “Master Fox, kindly turn around for a moment, and you shall have your answer.”
    When the poor Fox Without a Tail turned around, there arose such a storm of jeers and hooting, that he saw how useless it was to try any longer to persuade the Foxes to part with their tails.

    Moral
    Do not listen to the advice of him who seeks to lower you to his own level.

    • Ishmael

      Thanks king, nice story and bit of writing. Your posts always seem well thought out and nice to read imo.

      • King of Welsh Noir

        Thanks Ishmael, but most of the credit here must go to the venerable Aesop, I was just the conduit for his wisdom.

    • fwl

      Nice fable King. Worth remembering for many occasions and situations. Reminds me to always ask myself why someone is saying something. Turn them around and see the shit behind the sales pitch.

  • Ball

    Copied from a comment on the Guardian; to counter the rights distortions about Corbyn and the IRA

    ————————-
    You might want to read this list of corrections of Andrew Neil by Eoin Clarke
    ————————-

    1. On 29th November 1994, Jeremy Corbyn signed a House of Commons Early Day Motion no.24 depoloring the “terrorist atrocity & murderous violence” of the pIRA’s Birmingham pub bombings.

    2. In 1994, Jeremy Corbyn met four loyalist leaders including David Ervine whome he met five times both to discuss the wrongful imprisonment of UDR man Neil Latimer, and at Labour Party Conference in Blackpool in the October to receive notification of an impending ceasefire that was called just over a week later.

    3. In an interview to the Belfast Telegraph on 10th October 2015, Ian Paisley’s wife commented that Ian Paisley always found Jeremy Corbyn very courteous and polite. And that “he thought Jeremy Corbyn was a gentleman”.

    4. In February 1987, after initially incorrectly smearing him, Rupert Murdoch’s The Times apologised to Jeremy Corbyn and admitted that he had ordered staff to phone the police to warn them of a suspected pIRA operative in London.

    5. On 11th August 1988, the Irish Times ran an article praising Jeremy Corbyn as a “tireless camapigner for the Irish”. Jeremy had worked to quash the wrongful conviction of the Guildford Four, and pushed for a reopening of the Bloody Sunday inquiry.

    6. It was the Tory government who first spoke to Gerry Adams 11 years berfore Corbyn became an MP. MI5 files released under the thirty year rule showed that the Tory government released Gerry Adams from prison for secret talks in London. 476 people had died in 1972, the worst year of violence. MI5 files show that the Tory government concluded “there is no doubt whatsoever” that Gerry Adams “genuinely wants a ceasefire and a permanent end to violence”. The British government also recorded that Adams “response to every argument was reasonable and moderate”.

    7. Jeremy Corbyn only ever met Gerry Adams when the latter had entered electoral politics a full 14 years after the outbreak of the Northern Irish Conflict, in Adams’s capacity as an elected MP. In the 1980s Margaret Thatcher placed a ban on elected Sinn Fein politicians’ voices being broadcast. Jeremy thought this ran contrary to the principles of free speech. He was also keen that constituents from West Belfast were not silenced.

    8. Gerry Adams visited Westminster in November 1996 to meet several Labour MPs, including Jerremy Corbyn. The only item on the agenda was to resurrect the ceasefire that had collapsed. The ceasefire was recommended months later and has lasted ever since. Bill Clinton had invited Gerry Adams to the White Hosue the previous year, thus Corbyn’s actions fitted with the broader efforts for peace.

    9. There were at least two controversies throughout all of this that do deserve explanation. Shortly after the Brighton bombing Corbyn along with other MPs met Republicans in Westminster. This is indeed insensitive and wrong. Corbyn’s own motivation was to end the strip searching of female prisoners on remand.

    10. On 13th May 1987, Jeremy Corbyn stood for a minute’s silence to mark the eight people who had been killed by HM Armed Forces one week earlier in Armagh. One was an innocent civilian but seven were pIRA men. The minute’s silence was held at an intellectual gathering of Irish sympathizers in London. The bodies were not all yet buried, and the circumstances were not wholly clear. There was controversy at the time over whether or not this was a shoot to kill incident. Indeed, the European Court awarded £10,000 compensation to each of the eight families.

    • Xavi

      Nice one. Good to see the truth, rather than the endless childish smearing of a decent, honourable man.

    • Jim

      I saw this feeble attempted rebuttal the other day.
      Jeremy Corbyn has been one of the most active proposers of EDM’s in Parliamentary history :
      https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/35054253
      In any of these nearly 2000 motions has he proposed a single one condemning the IRA? After the Brighton bomb he seemed more keen on hosting a delegation of his Republican friends in Westminster, which by any stretch of the imagination is nothing but provocative. The fact he deigned over 20 years after the Birmingham pub bombings, to sign an EDM someone else has proposed, is evidence of his credentials as a serious peacemaker? Shamus Mallon would disagree.
      Andrew Neil mentioned the list of scores of Republican meetings Jeremy attended over the decades, which IRA members were also present at ( he lied about never meeting with IRA men as LBC showed in their interview with Diane Abbott).
      Seamys Mallon, Brendan Duddy & John Hume , from the Nationalist side (and living in NI Do at much greater risk to life and limb) were the people doing the amazing and risky work of negotiations during the height of the Troubles. Corbyn played no part in securing the peace whatsoever, as Mallon said and Jeremy had to admit.
      But he’s got a lovely smile. That’s what counts of course.
      Secret talks between the British Govt & the IRA to try and end the carnage, via intermediaries like Duddon, seem to damn the British Govt in your eyes. How? It seems very sensible and pragmatic to me.
      Any chance of hearing from you on what you think John McDonnell’s elevation to Govt might do to the fragile peace in NI? He seems not to be very interested in the terms of the GFA as a settlement to his liking.

      • Jim

        And here’s the Spectator piece giving some datails of Labour Briefing magazine, which Jeremy was intimately involved with, and their take on the Troubles. Read the paragraphs from ‘Fifteen years….’ onwards.
        Utterly damning sorry, there’s no two ways about it.

        • Neil

          The Spectator is utterly worthless as a source. This is the voice of the supposedly ‘intellectual right’, yet it has run, for years, articles by the likes of Boris Johnson that turned out to be factually incorrect and borderline libellous. Johnson is not alone in writing utter rubbish in the Spectator. I have enjoyed numerous articles with regards Public sector depts, which I worked for, and know for a fact the Spectator was talking utter, fact free, nonsense.

          You might as well quote google or Wikipedia if you want woefully sources and utterly inaccurate tosh. But of course, since you only seem to want stuff that backs your World view stick with your sources. They may be wrong, but hey, if it gets you through the day..

        • Jim

          Oh my God, I’ve just watched Diane Abbotts pathetic performance on Andrew Marr’s show. The more I find out the more damning it gets. Afro hairstyles? What in God’s name sort of answer was that to the question Marr put to her?

          • Jim

            Amber Rudd was very impressive on Marr today. Interview starts at 41.50 :

            The Andrew Marr Show, 28/05/2017: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08t0h73 via @bbciplayer
            I must say Labour are making it extremely difficult for me to contemplate voting for them, but then I get a mental image of Liam Fox and the decision becomes clear.

          • nevermind

            OMG I just watch Amber Rudd talk of providing a good service and then I thought of Elliott Johnson, a young and enthusiastic support of the Conservatives, a young ambitious man who was exploited and bullied to take his own life by the despicable Conservative hierarchy, a young life ended, just as those in Manchester who were victims of Conservative lax policies on chaotic Libyan rebels who ousted Ghaddaffi and went rogue, thanks to the Mi’s.
            To look impressive when you know all the questions and are interviewed by a Conservative supporting journalist is easy, Jim.
            I’m afraid your mission here is alarmist, backward orientated and not up to scratch, I mean quoting the spectator as evidence….

          • Habbabkuk

            I heard Amber \Rudd on the BBC Radio 4 Today programme this morning and found her well-spoken and impressive.

            The interviewer was expressing the usual BBC scepticism about anything proposed by the Conservative party (it was the turn of the proposed Commissioner for domestic violence this morning),

            The BBC, far from being biassed against Labour, is biassed against the Conservatives. Probably in revenge for the curtailment of licence fee increases.

  • Ishmael

    Who think’s what going on now as reflcted in this article Craig has posted about is in any way healthy I wonder.

    The state is a immoral gang of self serving interests. The shadow of corporate power over society. Feeding our degradation and gruesome death.

    Sod the laws. Sod the state. And anyone who seeks to legitimise the privilege force defends. I’d rather be a more just FREE THINKING criminal that a totally debased from of so called civilised human existence. Up is down, slavery is freedom, IGNORANCE is strength. NO

    Just NO.

  • nevermind

    A little warning on complacency, it is really important to translate this will to see Labour elected into actual physical votes, too many will mistake a one percentage advantage for a cake walk, its not.
    last minute swings in voters have decided elections all over the world and those who did not bother, because it was a foregone conclusion, bit themselves in the arse.

    Really, if you are registered, make sure you vote in this important election. I’ll go one further, please encourage others to do so.

    • Habbabkuk

      I agree with Nevermind about the dangers of complacency and the importance of as many people as possible voting in this election.

      Voters, for the first time in a long while, have a clear choice : either vote for a party with a strong, stable and listening leader with a clear economic and financial plan for the years to come or vote for a party whose pussycat leader would be a pushover for both foreign and domestic bully-boys and whose financial credibility rests on the belief that there is a magic money tree in the garden.

      The more people turn out to vote for Mrs May and the Conservatives, the more crushing will be the people’s verdict on Mr Corbyn and Labour.

      • Sharp Ears

        I thought she’s moved on from ‘strong ‘n stable.’

        She’s having a relaunch. Too late Treeza.

        Theresa May to relaunch her election campaign after disastrous ‘dementia tax’ backlash and Manchester terror attack as poll shows the Tory lead has shrunk to just six points
        •The PM will hammer the point that only she can be trusted on the crunch talks
        •Tory Party’s campaign blown off course by the social care row and terror attack
        •Party strategist Sir Lynton Crosby keen to get the Tories back on track
        •Comes as a series of polls out today shows the Tory lead of Labour has shrunk
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4549338/Theresa-relaunch-campaign-focusing-Brexit.html

        Is Crosby’s pay deal performance related? LOL to the power of 10.

      • Harry Vimes

        Be careful what you wish for ( particularly when you have got things arse about face.)

      • giyane

        May reminds me of three little one-year-olds in our family. They like the safety of being under the table and when they get themselves up to full height knock themselves out on the roof of the table. Where did that mystery life obstacle appear from? Time to have a good cry.

      • nevermind

        you are merely talking up the prospects of a liar, Habbakuk and apart from more uncertainty, a dropping pound and a Conservative rash to privatise every public asset there is and sell it off to unaccountable, off shoring oafs, will make them increasingly unappealing to many.
        Voters responded to Labours manifesto, they have increased their chances narrowing down from 22% advantage to the current 2-5% gap, going down.

        • Habbabkuk

          “…you are merely talking up the prospects of a liar, Habbakuk”
          _______________________

          You are entitled to your view, Nevermind. I trust you will now allow me to express the view that you and others on here are merely talking up the prospects of a damp dishrag whose only selling-point is the magic money tree in the garden.

  • jake

    So…the thinking is that the Tories will just scrape a victory…May will be asked to consider her position… and Rudd who is being positioned to replace her will be annointed and appointed. Have I missed anything?

    • nevermind

      yes, Jake, you missed a call for another round of speed dating with the Lib dems, who would jump at the chance of becoming the steak tartar on a Tory brexfast table again.

      • laguerre

        The Tories call for another coalition with the Lib-Dems? It would be instantly refused. The Tories will have to do a minority govt on their own, if they can’t get a majority.

        • Xavi

          Don’t be naïve. The lib dems would leap at any chance to get back into bed with the Tories and resume forcing Britain’s poorest and most vulnerable people to atone for the sins of the bankers. With the same relish as before.

        • Ultraviolet

          What about Blairites? Some of them would kill their own grannies to feel they were still important.

      • giyane

        aw! I thought you said streak starter then and my imagination saw a marathon of shining Lib dem bottoms. Must be Ramadhan.

    • Johnny boy

      10 days to go. I’m not fully understanding the vote share /seat correlation, but this swing shows the future is unpredictable, and the Tory are in a mess.

  • Michael McNulty

    An Arabic newspaper report states the Labour Party will immediately recognize Palestine if it is elected next week. I don’t see how the Tories and their media can spin that into Jeremy Corbyn supporting terrorism but they’ll try anyway. A few shameless lies might do it.

    http://en.alalam.ir/news/1974659

  • Ball

    Just watching Brillo head interviewing Nicola Sturgeon.

    She too is handing his ass to him but compare and contrast the line of questions to Corbyn and you can not conclude that Corbyns interview was a complete smear attempt.

    @Sturgeon – the economy, NHS, education, independence and the EU. Sturgeon is hands down the most capable politician in the UK.

    Really puts Mays car crash into perspective. She will be mauled by the EU.

    • D_Majestic

      My thoughts too. Corbyn was singled out for ‘Special treatment’, May was really poor. Sturgeon came across as a leader born. And I am a Yorkshireman, not Scottish.

        • D_Majestic

          Whenever my wife and I go on holiday we often meet Yorkshire types. I watch out for the self-made ones like the Monty Python sketch of the ‘Four Yorkshiremen’. If they are loud and objectionable I-fearing nothing except grey aliens-come out loudly with the phrase ‘Ah! The Four Yorkshiremen of the Apocalypse.’

          • Pyewacket

            A Lancastrian Father’s advice to his Son:

            Never, ever ask a man if he’s from Yorkshire lad ! If he is, he will have told you so, within the first two minutes of meeting him. And, if he isn’t, well, there’s no point insulting people unnecessarily.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      Ball,

      It probably isn’t the possible upcoming investigation/court case re Netanyahu. and as bizzare as it may seem, there is some evidence that the Israeli law system, is to at least some extent independent and honest…they actually prosecute some of their own war criminals…

      However, I suspect that is not the reason for Netanyahu’s apparent change in behaviour.

      I think it far more likely That Donald Trump whispered something very strong in his ear.

      None of these people are very nice.

      Tony

      • Habbabkuk

        Tony

        Yes, Israeli politicians, even in the highest office, are not above the law of the land.

        As various politicians, including former Prime Ministers and even the Head of State, have found out to their cost.

        That is, of course, only possible in a liberal democracy such as Israel, subject to the rule of law including an independent, functional justice system.

        No one would suggest for a second that the various breaches of the criminal law of the land by the usual tin-pot despots of the Arab states of the Middle East would ever be sanctioned by what pass as “courts” in those countries.

    • laguerre

      ” does bibi offer these messages every year?”

      Yes, it’s entirely automatic. If they don’t do it, then there’s a problem. Ghere’s not the slightest sign of change in Netanyahu’s position.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Coping with the effects of The Manchester Terrorist attack is exceedingly difficult. I myself have hardly been able to look…and when I do, it makes me feel even worse…there are a lot of things very very wrong here…but I won’t go into that just yet.

    Daniel Read is probably fairly young. He writes very well

    https://uncommonsense.me/2017/05/26/sickening-cowardice-now-more-than-ever-britains-theresa-may-must-be-held-to-account-on-the-plight-of-yemens-children/

    Tony

    • Ishmael

      Yes.

      And it’s a direct link to those deaths. Racist nationalism, it there any other sort in effect?

      Generally the media are silent on it. I wonder if those families think how are they getting these weapons, Mays effective reply? Doesn’t matter.

      Really I find it all horrific, Initial invasion of Iraq left me immobilised for days.

      • Ishmael

        “Us and them” It’s all nonsense.

        I didn’t not know those individuals better than those in Iraq.

        • Ishmael

          All wars root from racist/nationalist concepts. Differentiation via disembodied arbitrary boarders.

  • Republicofscotland

    Theresa May’s government is anything but strong and stable, her leadership qualities are non-existent, her debating skills at best are very poor, and her horrendous miscalculations over Britain getting a good deal, even with a hard Brexit, are a sign of sheer incompetents.

    However to the hardline voters of all parties Corbyn appears weak on imigration and how to deal with terrorism in a hard fashion. Theresa May will probably be returned to number ten, but not because the voters see her and her government as strong and stable for Britain, they’re not. No they’ll be returned to power, because Theresa May has been shouting the loudest over immigration and terrorism.

    Although I’m no fan of Labour, I think Corbyn,
    ( even though he’s copied a few SNP policies into Labour’s manifesto, which the SNP have already implemented) would be good for England and Wales and NI. Pity he won’t get his nose in front.

    If he loses, the knives will be out for him, Et tu, Brute.

    • Loony

      There is no need to worry about the British and their Brexit negotiations.

      Donald Trump said a few words and Merkel has barely stopped speaking since. Her latest pronouncement is that the EU can no longer rely on either the UK or the US. Given that she has devoted a lot of time to shafting Russia over Ukraine that would appear to make Greater Deutsche land somewhat isolated.

      All those unpaid NATO bills, the proximate curtailing of car export sales to the US and the fact that the news reports that some Greeks are still alive must leave her with her hands full. She probably does not even realize that inside Deutsche Bank is enough fuel to burn the German economy to the ground. You can bet that people in London and New York know exactly how to trigger the total collapse of Germany.

      The British can write their own terms and the EU has no choice but to agree with whatever it is that the British say. Maybe they could order Merkel to hand deliver some bratwurst carved into animal shapes to 10 Downing Street – just to show who is the boss.

      • Tony_0pmoc

        Loony

        Some may not find her the prettiest girl in the world, but that may be simply because of the way she has been portrayed by the press. That is not the issue I have with her.

        I watched nearly all of it (almost live) – via The Saker’s website

        The “FU” “EU” Coup in The Ukraine conducted via Hillary Clinton and Victorian Nuland directed by Robert Kagan

        I am almost totally convinced Catherine Ashton – despite not ever being elected to anything except Treasuerr of the CND when she may well have been hot – and as regards that I completely agree.

        I think Baroness Catherine Ashton is Innocent. She had actually negotiated a peace deal in Kiev pre coup…not realising she was dealing with complete and utter evil American neocon fascists.

        Like a lamb to the slaughter.

        I am not suggesting Theresa May is evil either – but neither of them are very good.

        If you are going to mix it with the inhabiitants of the swamp – don’t be surprised if you get eaten alive.

        These are not nice people.

        I reckon Jeremy Corbyn will sort ’em out. He knows the snakes he is dealing with.

        He has had IrishTerrorists for Breakfast

        Tony

      • laguerre

        “that would appear to make Greater Deutsche land somewhat isolated.”

        Isolated from whom? Germany has the EU behind it. Not like Brexit Britain, which has cut itself off from everybody, and certainly doesn’t have the US behind it. Your remark is rather of the famous style “Fog on the Channel: Continent cut off”.

  • Rob Royston

    Poor Jeremy, even if he were to win he would still be fighting the Tories and the Blairites. Remember how the Blairites refused a Rainbow Coalition in 2011. They chose to leave their mess to the Tories while they went off to cash in on their sinecures.

  • Dafydd Williams

    What a delicious irony it would be if this cynically timed election backfired on the twisters who called it.

    • ginadeen

      Oh I do hope it does. It would be chocolate and ice cream and everything lovely for the UK after 7 years of hell. I am open mouthed at anyone thinking the Tory car crash is ‘strong and stable’. Good God, where you you people been? The NHS is going to be fully privatised under the Tories, many schools can no longer afford the full complement of teachers or teaching assistants. Teachers left will not be able to cope and will leave in droves. Are you all so wealthy that you send your poor children to private schools? Pensioners will not be for they won’t have one or they will have to work until they drop. What planet are you people living on? I hope upon hope that either May gets a very small majority and is in the shit or Corbyn wins and at last we can see Britain grow again and fairness return. As for Brexit, May couldn’t negotiate her way out of a paper bag. Look at her attempt so far – she’s already put everyone’s back up. She will be an absolute disaster. I am off to S Ireland if she gets in.

    • nevermind

      Everyone thinks that Paxman is impartial because of his abrasive style of questioning politicians. let us assume for a fact that he does not like to do this job anymore otherwise he would still be in full employment.
      Tomorrow night will be a stint for him. He could make it his glorious good bye, but with a selected and spun audience from two parties only, this interview will ensure that the establishment smiles.

  • Geejay

    The most dispiriting thing about politics in the UK is that it’s impossible to have a serious discussion about important matters, such as UK Foreign Policy and its consequences, without the brain-dead like Rudd spouting incendiary garbage with no grounding in reality – or, to put it simply, telling lies about their opponents. In Scotland the Unionist zombies like Harrison cannot get past the “Stop the SNP” mantra as if that is the sum total of their political programme, (which it is), followed by more lies about the (Scottish) NHS or education, while seeming at the same time to be totally ignorant of the condition of the English NHS and education and then going on, with unbelievable hypocrisy, to call on the Scottish Government to alleviate the Rape Clause.

  • Ishmael

    There is no doubt in my mind that those deaths in manchester is effectively the chickens come home. Because were told it’s just them killing echoer, like it’s ok for innocent children to die “over there” .And we can even sell them the weapons to do it. That’s ok also.

    Visit for tea.

    So is it them who don’t care about Killing kids more? Or us who perpetuates this accepting culture. “We” in truth don’t just allow it, help it happen. We are some of the most active relitive participants in very recent history.

    • Ishmael

      The war criminals need to be held to account. If they are not.. ..If we accept it anywhere we accept it.

      • Ishmael

        The fact of the guardian and others “leftists”, “liberals” again giving voice to some people rather than condeming says a lot about this country.

        Owen jones and his recent interview. etc etc. This is the mainstream? Now that’s hard to accept, …and there is no accepting the deaths of innocents. Full stop.

  • justin

    a great read,I have met a few tory voters here in rural wiltshire ,one of the safest tory seats,and they really are not happy with the triple lock and the death tax ,they are going to vote labour.

    • Deepgreenpuddock

      If May fails, it will be a moment of real ‘extremity’. If Corbyn were to even achieve a hung parliament, I think the knives would be out.
      I would expect assassinations. I am not a May supporter but she has the
      ‘establishment’ behind her. The establishment is a strange, indefinable at a personal level (probably with some deliberation) entity but it is also real. It includes the Monarchy and the armed forces officer class, as well as political figures and key Civil Servants, the judiciary and legal profession,the medical profession,University ‘high’ management, powerful business elements from the larger energy and arms companies, much of the national media, and some key local governments. In addition, these elements have a strong support from the next tier of power-many senior managers and functionaries within most of the larger organisations who are well enough paid to owe allegiance. i.e not the establishment itself but the underpinning workforce for it.
      Whatever it is, it is quite formidable. Dismantling this carries serious risks for all. i am quite fearful of either option. I am fearful because i don’t think Corbyn could control the forces that would be unleashed.
      While i can see that there are reactionary forces afoot -these elements are definitely rattled and divided-and in this state they are very dangerous.
      Be careful what you wish for.

      • Ishmael

        Democracy is the right side of history. Or de we capitulate to fear. Phycological terrorism (or worse) ? Especially now.

        It’s this capitulation to these interests that’s lead to where we are. At what point exactly should we stop accepting it if not now? Is it getting easier or better over time ?

      • Ishmael

        And regarding the state, I really don’t think It could (though it could) get much worse as far as management goes. Played out in brexit. Add Farcically hypocritical policys by people but not even paying tax here. All this is demolishing the state and though I’m all for that ideologically (ultimately) it needs to be part of a reasonably thought out transition. Not just we are going to let it all go to hell because we are rich and it doesn’t effect us.

        This actually seems to be effectively what the Tory’s are are doing (though keeping their class protections of course) with disastrous consequences. Maybe your not really effected by the actual hardships many face. Evidence is there is nothing stable about what’s going on even if your not. People are already dying, just because it’s not a bullet directly from the state doesn’t change much.

      • German Girl

        If you want to dismantle and un-power the establishment politically you need to have political and social forces in place who can take and defend the places of those who get kicked out.

        In order to achieve that you need to educate people better in political and economica and legal and history matters. In short: you need at least a capable political party. I think Corbyn might be able to do that. You need better media, too.

  • Hieroglyph

    Apparently, politicians have a kind of political dictionary, wherein only certain words and phrases may be used. I wonder if it’s an actual, physical textbook, one that they get given when they have that unfortunate meeting with the spooks regarding their previous communist\rent boy\fraud\little kids issues. Thus the British people are, quite cynically, often described as the ‘workforce’ – as in the ‘Great UK Workforce’ – thus reducing them to the status of paeons for capitalism, rather than actual people. Similarly the word ‘safe’, or the phrase ‘keeping us safe’ is also on the allowed list. Keep repeating this, and people will subliminally associate the Tories with keeping us safe, being strong on terrorism. It’s basically meaningless, which is why that idiot whotsername keeps saying it. Desperate stuff, actually.

    This whole campaign absolutely reeks of confusion and desperation. The timing was always odd. The campaign itself is even stranger, with Emperor Palpatine really not persuading anyone that he’s there to bring peace. May’s minions in cabinet are clearly running a mile in fear of being associated with the debacle. And May herself has basically all but ended her career, even if she wins. I go back to the timing. It looks and feels enforced, a decision by an outside force, one that May would rather not have made. And it’s backfired horribly.

    Corbyn can be PM, though it’ll likely have to be in coalition with the SNP. Lord knows how that works though, seeing as the SNP will have exactly one condition. Maybe 2 years of coalition, followed by a referendum. If the SNP wins, another election, because of course the SNP can’t be in the English parliament. Perhaps Craig might have an insight into this constitutional wrangle?

    • Deepgreenpuddock

      A formal coalition with the SNP would be a catastrophe.and madness to enter into either for the SNP or Labour or any other UK party. It would be wrong and a perversion of democracy for the representatives of five million to have ome kind of governmental ascendancy over the representatives of many millions more than that. Of course i take the point that the reverse position prevails, but this also reflects the realpolitics of the existing position of Scotland’s subordination.
      It would be intolerable to England and there would be a serious reaction. There might at best be a bit of horse trading re independence referendum etc. It would bring the entire electoral and government system into disrepute and it would break under the strain. That might not be a bad thing if the reforms were progressive-such as dismantling the Lords, but it is not certain that progressive or constructive forces would prevail.

      • reel guid

        If the SNP hold the balance of power they hold the balance of power. That would be a democratic outcome and not a perversion of democracy. Not since the politicians of England begged Scotland to stay in the union in 2014. If you reside in England and don’t want Scotland to have any influence on Westminster government then don’t do anything to influence a No win in indyref2.

        • Deepgreenpuddock

          i was talking about a formal coalition with (say) Nicola Sturgeon as Foreign secretary and john Swinnie as Chancellor of Exchequer .
          The balance of power’ scenario is much less difficult but it would also be somewhat problematic, since the SNP is manifestly Scottish-not a UK party.

    • lysias

      If they’re like U.S. politicians, they have advisers to tell them how they should and should not say things. And all language is tested in focus groups.

      One of the things a lot of voters found appealing in Trump was that his language had obviously not been sanitized in this way.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Hieroglyph -you used the term ‘people’. This, with its socialist overtones, is now generally unacceptable (except for socialists). The correct term is ‘hardworking families’ .

  • Ishmael

    Though there are no tangible hard lines, certainly no generalised measurements of morality about people in any “I country I”. Australian culture certainly throughs out very polarised figures.

    Nasty and kinda heroic imo. This was well said. https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868870997025452032

    And why these people want ‘power’ it’s a mystery to me. They’ve got tons of money, everyone with a mind of their one hates em. It’s not healthy whatever it is. Class consciousness?

  • Sharp Ears

    It is impossible to find out the expenditure on the individual security services. Grieve is the chair of the JIC.

    ‘The figures above represent the combined budgets of MI5, SIS and GCHQ, as already published in the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament Annual Report 2015–2016

    The Committee has been provided with the individual figures for each Agency; however, these have been redacted in the subsequent pages since to publish them would allow the UK’s adversaries to deduce the scale and focus of the Agencies’ activities and effort more accurately. This would enable them to improve their targeting and coverage of the Agencies’ personnel and capabilities, and to seek more effective measures to counter the Agencies’ operations against them.’
    https://b1cba9b3-a-5e6631fd-s-sites.googlegroups.com/a/independent.gov.uk/isc/files/2015-2016_ISC_AR.pdf?
    Annex p 10

    In any event, Parker’s lot in Millbank failed in Manchester.

    Manchester attacks: MI5 probes bomber ‘warnings’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40080646

    ‘MI5 is to hold an inquiry into the way it dealt with warnings from the public that the Manchester suicide bomber, Salman Abedi, was a potential threat.

    Whitehall officials have acknowledged the security service was examining what assumptions had been made about the 22-year-old before last Monday’s attack.

    It later emerged it was alerted to his extremist views at least three times.’

    Our masters are good at holding ‘inquiries’.

  • German Girl

    Dear Mr. Murray,

    I think slowly it dawns upon people that the “war on terror” creates and breeds more terror. Even the obedient and submissive German press has started to ask questions albeit very few and very seldom and very quiet.

    German mainstream press, regional newspaper
    http://www.fr.de/politik/anschlag-in-manchester-jeremy-corbyn-erntet-wut-fuer-die-wahrheit-a-1286018

    Liberal German Blog from the former editor of the “Wirtschaftswoche” which is the German equivalent of the Financial Times.
    https://www.tichyseinblick.de/kolumnen/herles-faellt-auf/die-maechtigen-und-die-religion/

    And British news:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jul/20/iraq-inquiry-eliza-manningham-buller

    https://theintercept.com/2017/05/23/british-intelligence-warned-tony-blair-of-manchester-like-terrorism-if-the-west-invaded-iraq/

    All links curtesy of:
    http://www.nachdenkseiten.de/?p=38487#h03

    I think news blogs like the nachdenkseiten.de will get more and more attention and they will replace newspapers one day. Our German mainstream news is too tame so people switch to blogs. And news blogs search for good journalistic articles from all around the web. That German news blog does even link to English media.

    Best wishes and please keep up your blog!

    German Girl

    • Loony

      Substantially all of the German press is a CIA controlled operation.

      Udo Ulfkotte set out how it all works. Obviously he is now dead.

      Luckily neither Ulfkotte’s revelations nor his death were of any interest at all to the general German population.

    • Ishmael

      Rudd.. …As she accused the Labour leader of voting against anti-terror measures, with “no evidence he will keep people safe”

      Id love to see the evidence mass surveillance does. My guess is this another actual incidence that proves otherwise. ..Own the people, or trust the people.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Ishmael May 29, 2017 at 09:33
        With all this ‘mass surveillance’ that should ‘keep us safe’, where are CCTV pictures of the ‘Manchester Bomber’ in the foyer? Where are ANY pictures of the ‘alleged’ ‘suicide bombers’ on the Underground trains or stations?
        Why were all three CCTV cameras on the blown-up bus said to be inoperative, when only a day or two before the bus had had an extremely thorough check-out, by an unknown crew of mechanics and electricians (instead of the normal crew that routinely serviced the buses at that depot?
        Why did Paris ask the Nice police to wipe all CCTV footage of the ‘truck terror’?
        Why was there so little decent CCTV, and no tourist pictures, of the Westminster Bridge ‘carnage’?
        Why no CCTV footage when major ‘terror’ events occur involving airports?
        Why just one picture of Princess Di’s car going into the tunnel (when supposedly all the CCTV’s were inoperative, yet moments before a French driver got caught by a speed camera?
        And why are ‘terrorists’ so obliging, carrying or leaving behind passports, driving licenses or credit cards identifying them?
        What an ‘Alice in Wonderland’ narrative we are expected to believe!
        And of course, Abedi’s father was a known ‘master bomb maker’, and had done assignments for MI6 in Libya against Qaddafi.
        ( http://www.voltairenet.org/article196455.html ). Yet his son was not monitored?

        Seems to me ‘keeping us safe’ is just about the last thing on ‘our’ government’s mind.
        With Jeremy, that will be addresses – no more ‘Regime Change’ wars of aggression, and DECENT pro-people policies.
        Vote Corbyn’s Labour!

        • Dave

          Keep an open mind PB, because an absence of CCTV footage can be both evidence of state complicity and absence of dead bodies, because a false claim can be made irrespective of anyone dying and in practical terms its easier to just repeat false claims of an atrocity without coroners reports and grieving families complicating matters and its easier on consciences of the operatives involved.

        • Ishmael

          They certainly seem to like to keep these things internal..

          I was thinking more about the monitoring of social media apps diverting recourses, that one would imagine people trying to actually do this stuff would avoid totally.

          But points taken. All the cctvs obviously also can’t prevent squat.

  • reel guid

    Angela Merkel signalling in an election speech at the weekend that Europe can no longer place much faith or reliance in the post war western alliance after the UK Brexit vote and Trump becoming President. She said the EU must go it’s own route and maintain good relations with Russia.

    Scotland needs to be part of that new era EU. The alternative is to be dictated to by Westminster in a post Brexit low wage and minimal public services economy. Scotland to continue getting the government England votes for. Devolution to be undemocratically reduced and more probably undemocratically scrapped by Westminster.

    Even if Corbyn gets to No.10 he will not be strong enough to do much for Scotland compared to what we can achieve with independence and control over our own resources after 300 years of exploitation. And he has an autocratic attitude to Scotland not substantially different from the Tories’ stance.

    • nevermind

      I agree, reel guid, it is vital that Scotland keeps up its alliances with EU countries and fosters good relationships. Frau Merkel has realised that Trump is steering a corporate boat that is rather selfish, which still tries to dominate trade a la the Monroe doctrine, whether its in South and middle America or anywhere else in the world.
      My grandchildren will be starting their working age at a time when 30% of jobs are going to disappear, being done by AI robots 24/7. The technology, just as drones, exist in a chaotic economic environment that refuses to regulate to gain market advantage. Nobody thinks about what will happen when taxpayers are made redundant by non taxpaying machines, nobody wants to loose the competitive edge which is getting smaller and smaller every day.
      Copying Lego is a daily fact, patent regulations are ignored and not much is made of not paying taxes and or de regulation of workers rights, it seems that zero hour contracts could be here to stay.

      Talking to young fellow activists about AI and the need for sustainable policies in future, yesterday , brought it home to me that the education system is not geared up to providing the basics to advance positive action on a national basis, this will take more then ten years to establish and root, ten years we have not got.

      • Michael McNulty

        They can’t run their robot economy and totalitarian prison grid on batteries and generators. The whole system will be controlled by the microchip and needs electricity 24/7/365, and during blackouts that system fails. We can try and defeat their system by causing regular blackouts, a method of resistance that may need to continue for years. But it should defeat them in the end, it’s bound to, and it may be the only thing that can do so. Their weak spot is the system of communication just a few feet below our roads and pavements, not just copper cable communications but fibre optics too. We can start by destroying them at important junctions.

        I think it’s an elite psy-op when they talk about the dangers of EMP, because they fear such blackouts and must convince us they’d be dangerous to us all. Blackouts will inconvenience us and take us back to pre-electric times but no worse than that.

    • Ishmael

      You make it sound like it’s some actual physical human individual feat if or when he becomes pm. Cape Corbyn.

      That’s not how things actually function imo. And as I understand it his polices are very close to SNPs. Though I don’t recall much of a program myself, other than the “independent” bit.

      I wonder if given the way things actual work ( Brexit ), ton of stuff. I assume going independent (that I haven’t even heard clearly defend yet) will be a monster task, and if you already have good policies to work on isn’t it certain to divert (…everyone ?) to construction of a whole other state apparatus, rather than all the work that’s needed to enact these thing?

      And what of the relationship with England and all the work that’s going to take? Or will it be simply a wall like the current lack of description seems to imply. ..Sure you may find a few liking that idea this side of the border, but I dunno if they need encouraging myself.

    • Ishmael

      There is a lot of energy in Scotland, i like it, but I just question it’s best use. Saying that I do get the brexit thing, but half the people didn’t vote for it here either.

  • Paul Barbara

    Well, Amber Crudd would come a cropper in a debate with JC (as would May), just as Peston does here (the jerk keeps interrupting just as JC gets into his stride, but JC still wins: ‘Jeremy Corbyn – Full Interview on Peston on Sunday’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2ORlBkYB1E

  • Dave

    Brexit makes socialist economic policies that conservatives can support possible. For example now we are no longer bound by EU rules to promote the Euro, PFI is being dumped throughout the land and the Government can borrow from ourselves to invest at levels only limited by having things to invest in and non-inflationary as long as its spent on infrastructure rather than revenue items. On this basis all Labour promises are affordable.

    And although I am anti-IRA the sad truth for a Unionist is the public aren’t bothered about Ireland and are just happy the problems gone away, meaning the attacks on Corbyn about Irish terrorism will get little traction now we have peace. And it should be remembered that support for a United Ireland was a mainstream Labour policy (and de facto supported by the conservatives) due to its Irish catholic membership/voters which is a big part of the North London population Corbyn represents with the qualification through dialogue and peaceful means.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Now Angela Merkel has lowered the boom on Theresa May, stating after the difficult G7 meeting that Europe can no longer rely completely on isolationist Britain, though concluding poliitely that it was “six against one” when to was five against two with the UK being America’s poodle.

    Even worse than Neville Chamberlain where the UK was one and a half against one.

  • Anon1

    “Searching for peace”? After honouring Munich killer, Corbyn attended a conference in Tunisia with Hamas and PFLP:

    https://t.co/D5CZdAZXKy

    Jihad Jez and Semtex McDonnell seem to have spent their identity lives supporting terrorism.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Just your usual right-wing claptrap.

      I certainly believe too that Britain’s cooperation with the Yanks’ war on everyone is largely rsponsible for the Manchester massacre.

      And, of course, no mention of Corbyn being in Tuniesia to honor Atef Esieso, chief of Palestinian security who was mowed down by the Mossad in the streets of Paris in 1992 in revenge for the massacre of the Israelu atheletes at the Munich Simmer Ollypmic Games a retaliation before when he was only 24.

      The Mossad was ikilling any Palestinian then it could get in its sights, even wives of males, because of their alleged involvement.

      II had no reservations about assassinations.

    • D_Majestic

      Nothing about the Neocon wars and general world destabilisation, then? Or ongoing government bombing in the M.E. since 2010.

      • D_Majestic

        My comment was to Anon1. Not to Trowbridge’s usual eloquence and knowledge.

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          Thanks, D.. Majestic.

          I have had a special affection for Yorkshire ever since I learned the county unprecedentedly adopted Westmorland’s Henry Brougham as a candidate who then became Lord Chancellor, kicking off the original reform process of the UK.

  • Ishmael

    On the Scottish question, if I may.

    We need people to work together whatever, and far from ‘stuck with Tories forever’ story’s we can see (even in this circumstance) much of the uk ain’t that stupid. People with the same distaste for Tory policy exist here, are willing to work to get it done and can.

    Add to that all the positive energy of these working for Scotland in a similar way…? I certainly don’t think opposing these (not separate) social forces is a good idea. How things materially manifest is import to consider. What do people want this area to look like? Myself i’d like it to feel just as at home in Scotland as it does south. As it does here for many people I know from Scotland.

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