Tories Losing Daily Mail Readers and in Disarray 222


You need to don a pretty hefty moral armour before immersing yourself in the comments section of the Daily Mail, but this general election has seen a huge disconnect between the toxic propaganda that the Daily Mail pumps out, and the views of its readers. I should make plain that historically there is no evidence whatsoever that the Mail’s more left wing readers are more likely to leave comment. The threads are usually dominated by strong support for the Tory/UKIP narrative. But this election campaign has seen growing evidence of swelling dissent from the Tory campaign and the line it is taking.

Tonight the Mail has posted as its headline political story, a claim by Amber Rudd that the election of Jeremy Corbyn would increase terrorism. This is pretty appalling, crude stuff set out in the way the Mail believes will appeal to its readers.

But the readers’ reaction is not at all what the Mail is expecting. The Mail has a useful system whereby people can both upvote and downvote a comment and both scores are shown. The most popular comment on this article is the pithy “While her boss sells arms to the Saudis” by Jill in Kent. A large majority of the comments abhor the Tory exploitation of the terror attacks. When even Daily Mail readers find you too tastelessly right wing, you really are in trouble.

The mainstream media continue to move in lockstep. After the social care debacle they appear determined to continue to push terrorism as the dominant issue in the election. The calculation is that perceived Tory strength on this issue will arrest the Tory slide, and it might be argued from recent opinion polls that the Tory decline has at least become less steep. But public distaste at this Tory shroud-waving will accelerate the longer it continues. Expect the media to try to shift the narrative again on Monday, probably back to Trident.

The Tories’ house magazine, the Spectator, has not waited until the election is over to turn on Theresa May. Again the comments sections are worth perusing – while paid-up Tories will still vote Tory, they are not happy at all. May’s paranoia and self-regard are reflected in her choice of dullards for her senior colleagues. The result is that many of the smarter people in her party are feeling excluded. That was not a problem when she was romping home on a carpet of media-induced artificial popularity. But now the going is getting tough, the Tory Party is not a happy place. To mishandle the campaign so badly the Tories are losing Daily Mail readers, is an act of extraordinary political ineptitude.

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222 thoughts on “Tories Losing Daily Mail Readers and in Disarray

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  • Ruth

    Interestingly on the night of the bombing I was reading through the Daily Mail comments and noting how completely changed were most commenters’ attitude to Corbyn and how derogatory they were to May. I have a feeling these comments are used by GCHQ as a barometer. That eveniing May’s reputation was spiralling out of control. By the morning she would’ve been finished had it not been for the atrocity.

    The comments now are not quite as supportive as they were but if you look carefully you get groups of comments supporting Corbyn with strong likes and then you get another group with comments favourable to Corbyn but with a very high number of dislikes or a batch of negative comments and many likes. The sequence just isn’t logical . I suspect they’re being tampered with

    • Steph

      I think you are most certainly correct. I looked at them the other day and found quite a few of the ‘replies’ to comments were addressing a completely different username!

    • Ball

      I think Craig and a few others here are spectacularly missing how online electioneering campaigns works in 2017.

      You recruit an army of online activists and get them to invade the enemies patch (Mail, Sun, express etc) and swamp it with the opposite rhetoric of what is the norm ie pro Labour / pro remain / pro independence messages. Up voted by the rest of the gang to get the top listing. A form of dissent. The online equivalent of the union pickets outside the Tory manifesto launch in Halifax.

      This complete misreading of the reality of the situation makes people draw false conclusions that Mail/Sun readers have somehow suddenly found a conscience or morals while the opposite is true. Its just their hate gets drowned out by the weight of activists trolling the comment section.

      It happened for GE2015, happened for Brexit, happened for Trump with right activists. The hate will go back to the top once the electioneering is over and the activists get back to normal day to day stuff. Its blow-back for the right wing troll armies swamping the likes of the Guardian and independent with Leave and Tory propaganda.

      And as its online, you can buy in support to keep it going 24/7 by outsourcing the message to political allies abroad such as the Cons hiring Young Republicans to do their spamming.

      Welcome to democracy 2017. Its nothing more.

      • The G5 did it

        I have noticed a huge increase of Labour activists online. They’ve infiltrated ‘Reamain’ groups on FB and are selling Corbyn as a pro-EU candidate!

        • Ball

          He was a Remain supporter. With huge reservation. May and the Cons have always been euroskeptic. The Tories are 110% responsible for the Leave vote. No one else.

          I 100% support the idea of a united EU, but they need a big kick in the nuts regarding some of the directions they are taking. Big business favouritism, fishing policy (nothing to do with UK policy which was sold off by the UK Government), agricultural subsides, there is a lot wrong with it. But that doesn’t mean you walk away, you stand and fight for change. There is also a lot right with it.

          Remain lost. Corbyn respects democracy. You want a respectful, tolerant, mutually beneficial deal with the EU; you won’t get that voting in a bunch of clowns always threatening to walk away without one.

          • sentinel

            The Tories are split on EU membership, Ball. Please consider the HoC vote just days before the 2016 Referendum: 185 Tory MPs for Remain;138 for Leave. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946
            It seems to me our only hope for staying in the EU is for the Tories to get a majority sufficient for the ultra-Eurosceptics to be sidelined.
            As more problems with Brexit emerge the hope must be that opinion polls begin to move toward the Remain camp. When Remain have attained a continuous rating of 60%+ for several months plus support of Tory + Lab + LibDem + SNP + other political parties the people are asked again (preferably by holding another General Election). Some of the 2016 Leavers will no longer lack the capacity to vote and this time the young, having realised what they risk losing, will turn out and vote in very large numbers.

          • sentinel

            Apolgies. It should read: “Some of the 2016 Leavers will lack the capacity to vote …”

          • Johnny boy

            Sentinel, Tory cantdidate selection has be heavily pro brexit in order to avert this scenario.

      • johnf

        There is absolutely nothing new about large majorities of commenators on Mail and Express readers disagreeing violently with The Mail on foreign policy. Its been going on for years. Remember that UKIP is as strongly opposed to foreign interventions as Corbyn. And those voters are as likely to switch to Labour for its foreign policy (and its support for provincial manufacturing and social services) as they are to go for theTory policies on immigration and BREXIT.

      • laguerre

        So who’s paying for these supposed pro-Labour activists? The Brexiters were and are well-financed, and certainly they finance trolls. On the other hand pro-Labour or pro-remain, there’s no money at all, certainly not sufficient to swamp a thread. Frankly, you’re having us on.

        • Rory

          The difference i expect is the Corbyn activists are guided largely bu their social conscience and conviction of moral authority. NOTmonetary gain. Imagine that!

          • Ball

            Bingo Rory.

            I’d be there too supporting Corbyn/Labour if not for the fact that the Mail online/Sun etc make money out of my traffic even with adblocker, ghostery etc.

            Not something I’m willing to do.

      • nevermind

        Thanks for that lecture in addressing couch potatoes, Ball, how about a bit of real campaigning.
        Walking through Poringland’s main Bungay road on our way to Rectory Lane, there is a set of lights with repairs being done on about 100 meters of roadway, (not on a bank holiday weekend though) the cars slow down and crawl past us.
        Two cars, both occupied with more than two, beeped their horn and waved at us. We did not know these people, but waved back, and the only explanation I could have that it was the red Rosette I was wearing.

        South Norfolk is Tory to the hilt land and I think our MP must have a 36k majority over the second party, but this time his win will be with much less.
        More to come, whatever the Conservative touch at present explodes in their face, they are disunited, split on the causes and aims of Brexit, and they are perceived as weak and unstable, having to use armed police to project themselves as concerned, when in reality they have reduced our capacities to police.
        The radical right wing nature of some in her crew, such as Michael Fallon and liam Fox et al, their agenda’s, which have nothing to do with security but with war, are not in the interest of Britain at large.
        The UK has signed up to the MPCC in Europe, it is impossible to disengage Europe on security unless they want to go blind in one eye, and by their actions, endanger the British public.
        Mrs. May is the wrong person to front her team of negotiators, her impulsiveness and use of invectives does not make for an engaged negotiator that advances with calm and sense, who can see the wider picture and weigh up objectives against each other.

        Voting for her will be advancing a course of more uncertainty as we can’t expect countries with large bilateral EU trade agreements, such as India, to jeopardise the latter for some deal with the UK that might or might not come off, so there are many reasons to be nice to each other across the table, and what better than to firstly recognise the safety of each others Citizens living abroad and their rights.
        Not one party has got really quizzed what they mean by Brexit, they are keeping us dumb vote fodder in the dark until after the election. Mrs. May demands a balnk cheque of us and wants to cash it in her choice of currency.
        But the claim that this was all about Brexit can be clearly dis-proven, this was about sloganising and u-turns, about a good and a bad manifesto, about cuts to the NHS until it collapses with multiple claims for compensations, a case is being made for its privatisation,
        or that for a funding push and a re normalisation of services, the reopening of recovery wards for the older patients, taking pressure off hospital wards, and much better mental health care which in the long run will take pressure off the prison and police services, the restructuring and expansion of its services.

  • Nick

    Heard rudd talking on radio. What an exercise in cynical lack of self awareness….accusing corbyn of making political capital out of what happened in manchester whilst she virtually calls him out as the main cause of the problem. Never thought i’d see the tories lurch to the right of genghis khan…frightening times indeed with a lot of parallels to where the world was circa 1935

  • Ishmael

    Wow, seems quite explicit doesn’t it. How Base.

    base 1 (bās) n. 1. The lowest or bottom part.

  • RJ Phoenix

    I find it hard to believe how stupid both the Mail and the Sun think their readers are. If they want to see what Corbyn ACTUALLY said, they can watch the video online. All they are showing are a lot of Conservatives lying and deliberately misinterpreting the facts. Anyone on social media will have seen a Minister disagreeing with the words of Boris Johnson when he thought they were Corbyn’s. The Conservative media are stoking up the conflict again in NI by going on and on about the IRA. The mainstream media need to take responsibility for inciting hatred and hate crimes. When are the Conservatives going to DISCUSS and DEBATE their policies because all we can see is them attacking the opposition and attempting to conduct their campaign only through the mainstream media AND paid Ads on social media. Tory prospective MPs are currenlty refusing to go on hustings = refusing to be accountable, to debate, like their leader, and expecting this manipulation from on high to do all the (campaign) work for them. This is a cynical and disrespectful view of democracy. So, whoever has most money to pay the media and FB ads, gets the prize of Government? If this is the state of democracy, I would rather live in another country.

    • Ishmael

      That this culture and political system generates this is unconscionable. Even if JC wins we need organise stateless places/systems where people can be human. I will put in a vote for labour. But this is the last time and the only thing i’ll do in this system.

      Without some “radical” self organising force it will simply regurgitate this ….. horror.

      There is nothing radical about places iv been were the state has vacated. This is radical, radically abhorrent that it’s even conceived as a way of acting. I’m not even going to entertain the idea it’s anything more than some aberration, a detour people took before waking up and thinking all that business is best forgotten. When humans conspired against humans, against all our interests.

      • Ishmael

        OOps, was not meant to be a reply, no biggie. Was this post that kind of inspired it in part though.

    • Manny Kent

      Well I’m sure ISIS will enjoy publishing an edited version of what Corbyn said on their internet propaganda feeds. You do not publicly question your own government when you are in the middle of a critical security alert especially particularly when it is clear that it is cynical self serving political posturing. It is the most disloyal (to the country) and undermining thing a politician can do. Corbyn’s actions are reminiscent of that other once highly regarded Labour politician at the beginning of World War II ; Oswald Mosely

      • Grant

        Critical commentary is now equivalent to disloyalty to one’s nation? That’s how dictatorships operate.

      • Jo

        I think “edited” versions of what Corbyn actually said started within seconds of his speech. You’ve done your own editing too.

        I see nothing treacherous or disloyal in urging great caution when it comes to foreign matters and interventions. Rather, I consider it highly commendable and a responsible approach.

        Those who claim that there is no link between the rise of ISIS and the interference of the UK and others in Middle Eastern countries are utterly deluded, dishonest and dangerous. We have a UN which is repeatedly undermined by countries like ours, the US and France as they do their own thing without giving the UN its place. That has created carnage and sent people fleeing for their lives in their tens of thousands to other countries who treat them like vermin!

        It is more than clear that a fresh approach is required desperately. That is what Corbyn asks for. I for one applaud his courage.

      • K Crosby

        ~~~~~You do not publicly question your own government when you are in the middle of a critical security alert especially particularly when it is clear that it is cynical self serving political posturing.~~~~~

        Who sez? What happened to freedom of speech, supposedly one of the things your brave boys are killing Middle Easterners for?

      • Johnny boy

        I doubt it. It would only undermine their main recruitment motivation; that the west is fundamentally debased and connot be reasoned with, therefore the only option is to influence it by terrorism.

        They will be playing the Tory message, that denies the injustices inflicted on the arabic world and that the terrorists are evil.

        Which would wind you up more?

  • Tony_0pmoc

    I suspect Jeremy Corbyn knows most of what has been going on. He is not going to know everything, and he almost certainly has some views that I disagrre with. However, I am completely convinced that if I ask him a straight question…he will give me an honest answer. He almost certainly will not tell me everything he knows (well it wouldn’t be prudent). Jeremy Corbyn is Class

    Meanwhile, I am fairly certain that Theresa May knows far more than either me or Jeremy Corbyn….but she doesn’t know what to say.

    Standing and Thinking on Your Feet is Rather important in a General Election – or any meeting…

    If you have got as far as being dragged in to do The Presentation with less than 10 minutes warning – it is almost certain that someone is going to ask you a question – and it may be quite a complex question…

    You need to provide an answer.

    Theresa May – you ain’t doing too well. You ain’t in the same class as Jeremy Corbyn. You look like a Frightened Rabbit with a computer sound loop in your head. We are not impressed. Even Margaret Thatcher could do it 10 times better than you (though I never really fancied her – you are more my type but you are rubbish too)

    Don’t worry – you might lose – and dump it all on Jeremy – and that would be really cruel – but it would make you happy..then you could fck off with Cameron and Blair. You would be forgetten within weeks.

    Good luck Theresa,

    Tony

    • Manny Kent

      You should see the latest Conservative youtube release with live footage of Corbyn. That demonstrates what a brazen liar Corbyn is particularly over his links to the IRA (see his interviews with Sophie Rudge and Andrew Neil too) . If Corbyn says to you ‘trust me I’m a politician’ check your pocket for your wallet and then look out of the window and make sure your car is still there.

      • D_Majestic

        Just go and watch videos of May, and ask yourself-could she and the team of hopelessness deliver anything meaningful for LemmingBrexit?

      • Grant

        When Thatcher negotiated with the IRA she did it in secret and then lied about it. Corbyn was open and honest about his talks with them in an effort to end the bloodshed.

      • John

        Surprised to hear the Tories have nothing to offer the British people in the here and now Manny Kent. They have NOTHING at all to offer in the line of hope, aspiration, investment nor confidence in OUR people. They troll out Murdoch-inspired bile by the trolley-load. But as the polls are showing the people strangely are no longer fooled. Wonder why that could be? Could it be because of Maggie May hiding and refusing to debate? Could it be because of Michael Fallon’s savagely branding what turned out to be Boris Johnson’s exact words on the rise of terrorism? Could it be that the pensioners have recognised they were a soft touch for the Tories attack? Could it be that Hunt’s secret sell-off of our NHS has been scuppered by the people’s realisation of it as the THEFT is always was? Then we have Fox telling the British people that de-regulation of the labour market post-Brexit is the future. For “de-regulation” read, reduction in wages, less paid holiday and paternity/maternity leave, reduce existing health and Safety at Work protections. Zero hours contracts NOW being recognised as unfair by Tory high command!! An astonishing discovery so late in the day!! Was it never noticed during the 7 long years of Tory Government?

        All in all, the Tory campaign is collapsing – and the truth-talkers are in the ascendancy. Deal with it Tories – your time is up.

    • Johnny boy

      I think it common that people over estimate the entelligence and resources of those in authority. It is largely bluff, it only seems to have conviction because they are ignorant enough to believe their own hype. I ame to this theory in dealing with the police in protest situations. You are their equal, no more, otherwise you start to slip down the other side.

  • Sharp Ears

    Repellent Dan Hodges was reviewing the papers on Sky last night.

    Ref the headline Rudd – Vote Corbyn Get Terrorism.

    He did not refute it , in fact was very supportive of Rudd and went on to say Corbyn would not send in the RAF to Syria and furthermore has always voted against anti terror legislation, and so on. A snake.

    Most annoyingly, we wears his glasses on the end of his nose. He lost one eye in a bar brawl. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Hodges

    Ellie Mae O’Hagan, freelance, gave him what for and it was obvious she despised him. He took every opportunity throughout the hour he was on to knock JC.

    His twitter says it all. 
    (Dan Hodges))) Retweeted
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects · 5 hours ago

    On who is most likely to keep Britain safe from terrorism:
    T. May: 42%
    J. Corbyn: 16%
    (via @ComRes)

    On who would make a better Prime Minister:
    T. May: 51%
    J. Corbyn: 30%
    (via @ComRes)

    Tweeted a lot about Labour vote share. But what’s also significant is solidity of the Tory vote share. Consistently mid to high 40’s.
    and so on

    He jots rot for the Mail on Sunday. His mother is Glenda Jackson. ex Lab MP Hampstead and Kilburn. How did she produce such a son with such views?

    Her Foreign Policy voting record
    How Glenda Jackson voted on Foreign Policy and Defence #
    Voted a mixture of for and against use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas Show votes
    3 votes for, 4 votes against, 2 absences, between 2002–2014

    Consistently voted against the Iraq war Show votes
    0 votes for, 6 votes against, between 2002–2003

    Generally voted for investigations into the Iraq war Show votes
    4 votes for, 0 votes against, 10 absences, between 2003–2009

    Generally voted against replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system Show votes
    0 votes for, 2 votes against, 1 absence, between 2007–2015

    Voted a mixture of for and against more EU integration Show votes
    5 votes for, 2 votes against, 61 absences, between 2006–2014

    Generally voted against a referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU Show votes
    0 votes for, 2 votes against, 7 absences, between 2011–2014

    Generally voted for strengthening the Military Covenant Show votes
    1 vote for, 1 vote against, 2 absences, between 2010–2012

    Consistently voted for military action against ISIL (Daesh) Show votes
    1 vote for, 0 votes against, in 2014

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10308/glenda_jackson/hampstead_and_kilburn/votes

    • Dave

      Pure speculation, but it could be to get back at his mum, after I read she wasn’t very sympathetic when he lost his eye, due to him being clever with someone less educated in an East End pub.

        • Phil the ex-frog

          No they don’t. Isn’t that a cliche made to create the teenage market? Hey kids, don’t be square like dad, buy elvis, buy levi etc

  • Sharp Ears

    The Tory critter Duncan Smith who created this part of their vile system and presided over its implementation

    ‘Disgraceful. My mother in law who is on palliative care and morphine has just been asked to attend a second interview with ATOS for PIP claim.’
    https://twitter.com/morrison280876/status/868113691945955330

    goes on the attack against Corbyn.

    ‘General election 2017: Duncan Smith demands Corbyn IRA apology
    Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative secretary of state for work and pensions, has demanded an apology from Jeremy Corbyn for his stance on the IRA.

    A former officer in the British Army who served in Northern Ireland during The Troubles, Mr Duncan Smith accused Mr Corbyn of seeking to equate British soldiers with terrorists.’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2017-40071621/general-election-2017-duncan-smith-demands-corbyn-ira-apology

    • fwl

      May reminds me of Duncan Smith with her quiet (silent) approach. Look where it got IDS.

    • Made By Dom

      A close friend of mine worked at the DWP during Duncan Smith’s reign. She said the place was in total chaos over the plans for the new Universal Credit. A few months later, IDS resigns in a flood of tears of disability cuts.
      Strange to think that sensitive little soul is the same man who’s been associated with dangerous far right extremists his whole career and once paraphrased the slogan above Auschwitz “Work actually helps free people”.

      And you look how mad the press get when they see Diane Abbott have the audacity to be nervous, trip over her own words and be black all at the same time.

      • Johnny boy

        Don’t forget female.

        We are all sensitive souls, some just have more armour (trauma) on.

    • John Spencer-Davis

      I dare say there are quite a few people in this country who would like apologies from Iain Duncan Smith, who consider that he is directly responsible for the deaths of members of their families. How likely are they to receive them?

  • Dave

    The Daily Mail, presumably to reflect the readership, has been, using a different formulation, opposed and sceptical of neo-con destruction of defenceless countries that has resulted in the migrant crisis, a potent election issue. Therefore for the Government to make it about terrorism and in effect immigration rather than about Brexit strengthens rather than weakens the UKIP vote. And without the collapse of UKIP towards Conservative, the Labour’s vote only needs to hold up for them to do well, except the “lets all rally round” message in response to Manchester plays to Labour’s advantage under Corbyn.

    • Manny Kent

      Labour’s vote at general elections has not risen above 9.5 million in since 2001 (they’ve polled worse than John Major in1997 for three elections on the trot). If Labour’s vote ‘holds up’ (it can’t get much lower) and UKIP’s vote collapses which it already has (and Nuttall is not the leader to recover from such setbacks) then its 5 more years of the Tories with May having a bigger majority. The only thing now is it won’t be a 150 majority.or anything that dominant.

      • Habbabkuk

        I agree with the view that the Conservatives under Mrs May are likely to increase their majority on 8th June next.

        This will have nothing to do with allegations of media bias and everything to do with a Zeitgeist in which electors are less ready than in the past to be duped by the promise of a magic money tree in the Labour Garden of Eden. And everything with the perception that Mr Corbyn is an amiable but weak-willed pussycat of whom the unions and foreign powers and institutions will make mincemeat.

        Of the many benefits which will accrue from the inevitable Conservative win is that no one will be able any more to bring out that constitutionally ludicrous argument about the current PM not having been “elected”.

        • Harry Vimes

          I would love to discuss those points with you Hab, using, as the Bard eloquently described, your own unique approach in return.

          Unfortunately, it obvious this would be a complete waste of time on the grounds that whatever was posted, no matter how bland, will most certainly be deleted – as this specific post will also surely be. I have to concede I have never encountered a blog in which a poster who abuses both the blog, other blog posters and the blog host is given so much protection by the blog author and the moderators.

          Appropos the playwrite Alan Bleasdale’s 80’s drama ‘GBH’ it seems reasonable to surmise that if groups such as the SWP did not exist the security services would have to invent them, and they probably did. In the same vein the level of protection you are receiving suggests a similar scenario.

          Either that or whoever is running this site just does not get the cultural speciality of the majority on these islands in extracting the urine. Either way, it is readers and posters who should have at least a significant input to whether specific posts should be taken down. At least that way there exists the opportunity to to see a rational explanation for doing so rather than being confronted with the kind of faceless bureaucracy that people like Ian Duncan Smith specialise in.

          • Johnny boy

            I just skip straight past his posts. I guess if he was barred he’d just return by a different name or post somewhere where he might be read and taken seriously.

  • giyane

    CM ” many of the smarter people in her party ” I take it you mean that in a party of total dum-dums, which steered the country towards banking criminality and then watched it sink under Gordon Brown, there are some intelligent people who would like the nasty party to reform. Here are some suggestions for after defeat on May 8:
    1/ Stand up for the UK’s history of welcoming foreigners but make sure our police can cope with different types of cultural crime such as people trafficking, money-laundering, benefit fraud and mortgage fraud, where the immigrant culture is different to our own. That’s a social issue but Tories don’t believe in society.

    2/ Bring all war criminals to justice so that there is a deterrent for politicians who indulge in crimes against the Geneva Convention. Tories all want to punch below the belt, so that’s not going to come in.

    3/ Never penalise the weak and set realistic ceilings for means-tested benefits. It’s no good removing checks and balances which have been placed in the system for good reason. Like Nick Clegg, Tories have no idea what people have to live on.

    4/ Allow freedom. You can’t force people to buy petrol cars, or stay in the united kingdom. Where’s the inner Tory in a race to the bottom with UKIP? Do what you believe in. Tories only do hypocrisy. Cancel that one.

    Looks like we’ll have to let Corbyn drive for a while. After Cameron’s departure total Rigor Mortis has set in.

    • Ishmael

      I like some of those ideas, it some of there spirit. But that “benefits” are even means tested is a horror. This distribution of money is the only thing keeping many people alive. And they should be tested to see if worthy in some way?

      They are human beings.

      A basic minimum income for everyone is just a minor (side)step toward the beginnings of a civilised society, i.e. not treating people worse than we’d allow anyone to treat animals.

  • Manny Kent

    I suspect the Mail comments section (which is open to all) has been infested by the same Corbynite multiple personality disorder trolls that infest much of the rest of social media. They are even daring to wander into the Speccie spouting their nonsense occasionally although they tend to get short shrift there. Given Corbyn’s brazen self serving disloyalty it is just the sort of thing that he would have motivated his internet thugs to defend. I say this because I doubt most normal Mail readers give a toss that we sell arms let alone who we sell them to.

    Anyway I look forward to Corbyn’s edited comments featuring in ISIS’s next propaganda broadcast on their Internet feeds. I’m sure knowing that they are ‘winning’ the war on terror will help them entice even more to their cause.

    • Habbabkuk

      I agree that the anti-May comments in the Daily Mail’s online comments section are likely to have emanated not from regular Mail readers but from left-wing Corbynistas. It is disinformation and although most normal people are unlikely to be influenced, the tactic has given Craig the subject matter for a new thread (I am not claiming any coordination, of course).

      I believe that this tactic of planting comments in the Mail is indicative of the despair of the Corbynistas as the fatal date approaches. Desperate people use desperate tactics.

      • JOML

        And it appears some of the people who usually comment on the Daily Mail have moved to commenting on Craig’s blog.

    • fwl

      Pay Peter Hitchens more too. These two Oborne and Hitchens remind Mailsters what is real and what is not.

      • Tom

        Take a closer look at Hitchens’ MoS column, though, and you’ll see there is always at least one Mail hobbyhorse placed there for the benefit of the piper.

    • Habbabkuk

      Warning. The World at One coming up on the radio part of the State broadcaster (Radio 4); interviews with politicians likely.

  • Jayne Venables

    There is something settling to my soul to see people rejecting and parodying May’s SnS mantra and the Tory terrorism claptrap. Amber Rudd will mouth whatever vile nonsense the campaign chiefs dictate; the artificial outrage at Corbyn, who is boldly stating the obvious about the context of the Manchester attack, is an offence to intellect and digestion.

    Fortunately, it is turning stomachs across the nation — especially for women voters who, according to pollsters ORB International in the Telegraph, are looking more favourably on Corbyn’s party since mid May when 31% of women planned to vote Labour with a jump to 40% this week.

    I’ve wondered about our womenfolk and how women would perceive both the ruthless Tory policies and the apparently heartless senior Tory women MPs. My own revulsion for May, Rudd and Patel works on several levels, extending beyond Lady Macbeth syndrome. I’m outraged by the arrogance of May’s refusal to debate Corbyn et al; she’s providing a deeply inadequate model of stateswomanhood which contrasts sharply with that of Sturgeon, Lucas, Wood and even UKIP’s Evans. Rudd and Patel are both strikingly vacuous albeit one with a thud, the other a tinkle. All three demonstrate a paucity of intellect and any rounded personability. May is simply inarticulate and painfully awkward around people. I marvel at their achieved prominence. Surely they offer no inspiration to women of any generation.

    Is it possible that many female voters have become switched on this week by their engagement with the Manchester family tragedies and perhaps find a deeper empathy in Corbyn than in May? Hopefully, his approach and solutions touch a depth of feeling to which the Tories seem oblivious.

    • Johnny boy

      Not to remove from your post too much, but I think the gender gap when it comes to voting is out dated claptrap. There must be an infinite number of more relevant differences in people, just not so readily ascertained.

      • Jayne Venables

        Johnny boy, I’d like to think you were right about the gender gap having less relative significance but surely any gap that still exists will be sensitive to a choice involving a female PM, especially one who lets the side down so woefully. However, I am intrigued by this so will research and return to the subject.

  • BrianPowell

    The only caveat I would add is that pro-Indy commentators used to turn up in numbers on anti-Ind articles in the Herald, Scotsman and even the Guardian. In fact I began to thing Pro-Ind clicks on the Scotsman was keeping it afloat!.
    So it’s possible anti-rightwingers are doing the same. However I don’t read the DM, and now none of those other papers, so this is just a thought comment.

  • Ishmael

    When you see the compassionate rhetoric of those about the people who died in manchester…

    Think about the system we are forced to live in, where we are forced to sell ourselves to stay alive. …That’s not some “natural order” Many who run this system and in this socity never have to do that. And they will keep there children out of the roman arena they have created as they stand and watch from the safe terraces. As this set up rips apart children’s and adults lives.

    They simply don’t give a shit about you. About us.

    • Ishmael

      And what is labour offering?

      It’s offering that this system continue where people lives are still totally precarious compered to many, yet we are the ones who reproduce what sustains all of us, even the ones who stand up of the terraces, Giving orders to the ones who sat the rules in their favour.

      They want their unparalleled privilege to continue you see, at our expense. Labour / JC’s team says just give a little more, so you know, not to many starving, being forced into the steers, killing themselves etc. But those people will still effectively own you.

      During (explicit) slavery there was a group of people who said these people need better conditions, and there where those horrified at the first group who said that… like there should still be slaves. I fall into the latter category, and I hope others do too.

      • Johnny boy

        You are ahead of your time, perhaps too far ahead of your time to be appreciated by many.

      • Phil the ex-frog

        Ishmael

        Slavery didn’t end because a “a group of people…said these people need better conditions”. This verges on the myth that a few nice types from the boss class homeland set the slaves free.

        Slavery started to be outlawed in GB for social economic reasons: US independence, constant slave revolts and the emergence of greater profits from production using new technology.

        • Ishmael

          I agree, it didn’t. It ended as you say because people said there should be no such thing, not just better treated slaves.

          Though one could argue (and they did) when you own something you take better care of it. Still some truth in that in todays form.

          • Phil the ex-frog

            Ishmael
            “It ended as you say because people said there should be no such thing”

            I said no such thing mate. I said quite the opposite.

            It wasn’t a nice thought that ended slavery. Slavery became illegal because cotton production had become economically redundant. GB was moving onto the greater profits of industrial technology. Constant slave revolts were an additional threat and cost.

        • Ishmael

          Sry, no reply button on that last reply

          Yes you did. “outlawed” we can argue about reasons but it was disallowed.

          • Ishmael

            Ok. But not opposite imo, & I don’t think those were the reasons you say. They wanted slaves, argued for them. They changed them to maids they had to pay, not profitable.

            Is became unacceptable. Morally repugnant.

          • Phil the ex-frog

            Well we are discussing the reason. You think a few quakers in England had the nice idea that slavery is bad. They agitated and the state relented seeing the err of it’s way. I say it was because of social economic reasons.

            This difference is very important. Your position is idealist: that ideas drive history. Mine is materialist: That social economic material conditions drive history.

            Materialism is a simple but very powerful concept. That no matter what is said it is the material conditions (economics if you like) that are the dominant cause at the root of motivation. That economic reasons lay underneath whatever rationalisation is said. The rationalisation may be god, king, country, wmd, human rights, whatever. But the common root cause is material (plunder, profits, workers etc).

            Viewed through this lens history becomes less random, less inexplicable, more interelated. It makes more sense.

          • Ishmael

            sigh, still no reply button on some posts..w/e

            I think my argument that it wasn’t “social” economic is grounded in good evidence I already related.

            I disagree.

  • Michael McNulty

    People will notice when interviewing Jeremy the media avoids mention of his domestic policies because they can’t find fault him in them. But there will be those who want to hear more about his domestic policies so the media brings attention to their strength by their absence, in debate, or at least the weakness of Tory domestic policies against which they daren’t compare them. Many will agree with Jeremy on the causes of terrorism and only negotiations with the IRA ended their bombings, so the establishment hasn’t got that much.

    I still don’t trust them not to steal the election. All elections became suspect when the war criminal Blair “reformed” them.

    • D_Majestic

      And after that came the time when ‘Anomalies’ of some sort were noticeable to the perceptive.

  • Becky Cohen

    I’d imagine many Daily Mail readers actually have an ideal worldview that is more congruent with that of Daesh’s than the current Tory government. I’d guess that if a member of Daesh was given a choice of which British newspaper they’d most like to read they’d be most likely to go for the one that contained the one that hated LGBT people, had a long-standing track record of racism and anti-Semitism, railed against any enlightened thought that was left-wing,, liberal or remotely progressive, firmly believed in a God of violence and was profoundly sexist and misogynistic yet had no pornographic Page 3 like The Sun because it believed that sex and scantily clad women were immoral.

    • Ishmael

      enlightenment thought? what’s that.

      Seriously lot of people I know probably associate that with some hippy nonsense. As the Torys seem to treat it. Where does one begin and the other end.

      • Ishmael

        I could feel the Tory’s squirm when the french president mentioned the word.

    • Johnny boy

      Yes, only May seems to be pretty much a student of Dacreism. For most of the party you are spot on. On TYT I have seen comparisons between “Christian” and “Islamic” fandamentalists, Their lack of self awareness is remarkable.

  • mojca

    Hi Craig,
    Just noting that, while your posts are typically excellent, the comments section in your blog is pretty dismal too, thanks to a bunch of resident trolls. Which I guess is what they intended.
    If i as you i would close comments here and link the blog pieces to your facebook page. let them have their “say” there and leave this place clean and informative.

    • Ishmael

      Iv had a similar thought i said a while ago. i.e. no comments.. But for myself id have to say iv not helped, made a lot more of them than they are…..Im a sucker for feeding them.

      ….Posters can make this blog better imo, though I really don’t want, shouldn’t, measure for anyone else what’s better or chose whatever narrative just because I think it’s progressive. funny, whatever.

    • Habbabkuk

      I have often suggested that Craig should disable comments.

      Much simpler, fairer and less labour-intensive than moderation.

      And, judging by the readership / kommentariat ratio, only the score or so of regular commeters would be affected.

      As you say, the blog would be cleaner and people who feel an imperative need to share their thoughts ( a very, very small minority )could so so elsewhere.

      • Ishmael

        Funny, id never heard you do so.

        I often don’t enjoy this blog, or enjoy myself on it. But I think it’s nice that this space exists. And definitely outside Facebook where i think much would be lost.

        Overall I’m grateful that Craig keeps this up, and all the mods, through I don’t recall using them in a traditional way to complain or report others comments iv surly been a pain sometimes. And I think people are generally civil and nice (not superficially, i.e. polite) Through I can be rhetorically vicious at times, and not polite. (I live in a typical run down housing estate where their are huge stresses).

        There aren’t many this open places (actually) on the net with this kind of focus, and thought I feel fairly different politics to Craig I feel it’s valuble. However small. I’m glad that didn’t take the suggestion anyway, when I did say it. I think he’s done well keeping it up.

    • Phil the ex-frog

      “Less comment, more cops!” the liberals, lefties and tories agree.

  • Sharp Ears

    The full list of the House of Commons vote on attacking Libya.

    Note Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell in the list of the 13 against.

    Good true and decent men and women.

    The full list of how MPs voted on Libya action
    22 March 2011

    The House of Commons voted by 557 to 13 to support UN-backed action in Libya at the end of their debate on 21 March 2011 – here is the full list of MPs who voted against, or did not vote:
    Fifteen MPs (13 voted against plus two “tellers”) against:
    Conservative: John Baron (Basildon & Billericay).
    Labour: Graham Allen (Nottingham North),
    Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley),
    Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North),
    Barry Gardiner (Brent North),
    Roger Godsiff (Birmingham Hall Green),
    John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington),
    Linda Riordan (Halifax),
    Dennis Skinner (Bolsover),
    Mike Wood (Batley and Spen),
    Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran),
    Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South-East)
    Green Party: Caroline Lucas (Brighton Pavilion)
    SDLP: Mark Durkan (Foyle),
    Margaret Ritchie (Down South)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12816279

    See the long list of the mealy-mouthed cowards who either abstained or hid under their duvets.

    You have to go to a Hansard link for the rest.

  • Doug MacLeod

    I would take care analysing the comments on Daily Mail stories, Craig. I took the time to read a lot of them recently and became convinced that many of them, often the most provocative, were written by a small group of staffers. A newspaper, whether National or a local freesheet, is really just a vehicle for selling advertising. Using provocative “comments” to stir up controversy is just a natural extension of the established practice of lurid headlines and sexed-up stories to create more revenue. The biggest tragedy is how the BBC have seen fit to emulate this model in their reporting.

    • Harry Vimes

      Could I say Douglas that I find your observation here to be most perceptive. It is clear you have a handle on the way such approaches are utilised, along with the objectives those employing such approaches seek to achieve.

      In this vein could I ask, purely in a spirit of enquiry; have you ever encountered (or indeed could you ever envisage) a blog site which might be considered part of the ‘alternative’ media narrative employing similar BTL approaches?

  • Geoff

    Tories may live to regret bringing up the IRA versus Corbyn. I clearly remember that prior to the 1970s revival of historic IRA activities, successive British governments were content to preside over a despicable, gerrymandered, sectarian Unionist dictatorship in Northern Ireland. It was one of the most backward regions in Europe. N.I’s sectarian armed police force and “B-Specials” violently suppressed the entirely legitimate N.I. Civil Rights Movement which emerged in the late1960s inspired partly by the similarly named movement in the USA. The ensuing “Troubles” were wholly foreseeable. Those controlling the UK state during those years are primarily responsible for what followed, because every person, not only your opponent, must take responsibility for the likely consequences of their acts and omissions. Any lesson here for today?

    • Bobm

      Well said.

      Has May heard of the law of unintended consequences?

      Does she have the intellect to absorb the complexities, or is she, like Trump, simply a believer in her own publicity?

  • Phil the ex-frog

    Seems more than a tad naive to take comments at face value. There will be all sorts of actors, party teams, party fans, PR companies, journalists etc, who will be manipulating these.

    Back in the 1980s when I was a jorno on a provincial rag we used to have a right laugh writing letters to the editor over pub lunches.

  • Phil the ex-frog

    Craig
    “The Mail has a useful system whereby people can both upvote and downvote a comment and both scores are shown.”

    Oh go on. Introduce that here. It’s a plugin. It’ll be hilarious.

    • Ishmael

      Nooooooow.

      No voting, we can find way… MORE EMOJI’S, brighten the place up. Not good and bad. inflating, casting down, scoring at the push of a button. We are not people to me measured out in such a base manner.

      Free Julian.

        • Ishmael

          No problem. Even in a minority of one the truth is still the truth.

          And the truth is it’s its an uncivil essentially dehumanising thing. Who votes on ideas in a family. Or on any normal discussion amount people. Before you know it theres a block button, a kick out button. The crowd/mob mentality takes over.

          Why don’t you just go to mail if you want that kind of base culture. I thought this was about ideas, not populism.

    • Anon1

      We did have that briefly but it was removed. I would like to see posting of images and tweets enabled so that Labour can be memed to death.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    To be fair, the Daily Mail isn’t supporting the Tories now in usual fashion, like having an article about the FBI warning MI5 in January that the Manchester killer was a threat to attack Britain.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      The Mail has some redeeming features, and lefties should read it in order to escape from their conceptual bubble. And for the Sidebar of Shame, of course.

      The Mail disliked Cameron, hates Blair with a passion, and has journalists who are capable of chasing a story. It’s certainly not all bad.

      • Trowbridge H. Ford

        Wish it had an article about whose coalition air forces caused 141 killed in that March 17th bombing of ISIS=held section of Mosul.

        Did the RAF participate in the massacre, and is anyone going to cough up compensation to the survivors of the victims? Or is Britain now not proving money for it too?

      • Anon1

        This is true. It may be one of the trashier of papers but it carries some great investigative journalism. The left seem to go all mental over it for some reason.

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          The so-called left like me goes bananas when the DM posts crap like William Doyle going on about his PT 100. another boat that JFK also commanded which somehow sank in the Harlem River during WWII/

          You should know that Doyle tracked down the three homeless guys near where JFK was assassinated who were just that, but nothing about the rambo CIA, led by Executive Action leader William King Harvey, which killed him.

          Doyle is just like today’s typical journalist who doesn’t want to look into anything really serious. He is a relatively unknown country boy who wants to keep it that way.

          No wonder loons are running the world today.

  • johnf

    Today, we seem to be discussing what politicians were up to 34 years ago. In that vein, please may I present you this.

    Video of Maggie Thatcher in Pakistan, 34 years ago, addressing a mass meeting of islamic jihadis and fundamentalists, saying she is funding them to the tune of £2 million, saying the “hearts of the free world are with you”, and thanking them for their courage.

    https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/86880883519202099

  • Ishmael

    I hear people talk about leftists and liberals on these subjects and often think, What liberals and leftists ? The ones in politics?….Who has a traditionally liberalist agenda? not just ideological? Or a leftist agenda ? A fraction of the Labour party? And I still question the depth of that frankly.

    To me these are so many typecast disembodied stereotypes. Cast out from politics eons ago. And 99% now just sit in the vacated tents. ….Yet people seems to talk about “them” like this is our basic political makeup. Seriously. ?

    Whatever….

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