Banning Democracy in Catalonia 440

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There is a fundamental disconnect between the real Catalonia and the Catalonia the political Establishment and its lackey media want us to believe exists.

All of the major Western broadcasters, plus newspapers like The Guardian, Washington Post and New York Times, have repeatedly pumped out the mantra that it is only a minority in Catalonia that support Independence. They have never attempted to explain why therefore Carles Puigdemont is President, and why the pro-Independence parties got 48% at the last Catalan elections while the Spanish Nationalist parties got 39%.

There is a vital point here. The plan of the Spanish government to force new Catalan elections in January is not obviously going to give a different result. The national spirit aroused by the 2014 Scottish referendum resulted in a huge boost for the SNP at ensuing parliamentary elections. The same is likely to apply. Plus, there are indeed societies in which people en masse which will vote for you if you send armoured thugs to bludgeon their grannies. But I do not think that the Catalans are such a society. Catalans are not likely to have been convinced to abandon their hopes by the actions of the Guardia Civil.

So what happens if Rajoy calls new elections and the pro-Independence parties win again, which is highly likely? Social media shows that a great many Catalans believe that Rajoy’s answer will be to ban the pro-Independence political parties and not allow them to contest the election.

That is not as fantastic as it seems. Spanish ministers have been briefing the media that, if Independence is declared, Puigdemont will be arrested for sedition. Two major Catalan civic society leaders are already imprisoned for the same ludicrous offence, and the Head of the Catalan Police is on trial.

One commodity of which Spain is not in short supply is corrupt, Francoist judges. It will not be difficult at all to find a fascist judge who will rule that campaigning for Independence in itself constitutes “sedition”, and that pro-Independence political parties and pro-Independence campaigning should be banned as unconstitutional, an affront to the sovereign, traitorous and other such nonsense. In fact that seems to be the inescapable logic of the Rajoy position.

Indeed, the calling of a new election makes no sense at all unless the supporters of Independence are banned from contesting it. Many other measures – all an undeniable breach of human rights – are being undertaken to try to reduce the capacity of the Independence movement to campaign. TV and radio stations are being taken over by Madrid, websites and social media communication blocked. The banning of pro-Independence parties really is not a very large step further down the road. Meanwhile Rajoy has almost certainly concluded that there is no breach of human rights so blatant that other European governments will not back it as the “rule of law”.

There is no sense in which the current hardline moves of the extremist Spanish nationalists in power in Madrid will end the crisis in Catalonia. They will merely plunge it into a much more vicious phase.

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440 thoughts on “Banning Democracy in Catalonia”

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    • Geordie Bordie

      Jacob Rees Mogg comes across as a decent old-fashioned one nation Tory who gives every impression of valuing humanity over the machine.

      Almost a Lord Julian Alexander Kitchener-Fellowes production.

      But.

      I think he may be involved in finance.

      No Downton Abbey, he, then.

      Not really a true Conservative.

      More a Liberal.

      Free for all.

      Kinda thing.

      With hereditary barriers to entry.

  • Republicofscotland

    Senior US Senators claim they had no idea the US had a thousand troops in Niger, which only came to light, over the death of a soldier, in which Trump was alleged to have been disrespectful to the soldiers wife.

    http://www.newsweek.com/how-many-troops-does-us-have-africa-top-senators-didnt-know-military-was-niger-690937

    Trump’s admin, does it deliberately lack oversight, and did the senators genuinely not know.

    Also how many more US troops are in African nations, and are their activities known to the president and the senate?

    • Geordie Bordie

      Media is a cesspit.

      Something to do with the flow of information, I think.

      A lack of flow.

      I’m sure Julian said something about this problem.

  • reel guid

    Scottish Labour’s Baron Kirkhill, a former Scottish Office minister, claimed the most of the Mirror’s list of 17 peers. He received over £43 000.

  • reel guid

    Turning their attention from their Lordships to the MPs, the Mirror has revealed that Liberal Democrat Tom Brake’s constituency office in Carshalton has advertised for two volunteer staff. Tom is only going to pay for travel and lunch expenses.

    This is after Tom Brake has spoken out many times in parliament against low pay.

      • Sharp Ears

        We need non reminding of the Friends of Israel,from any party (they all have such an outfit), just a few days away from the centenary of the Balfour Declaration. Theresa will be wining and dining Bibi. Isn’t that nice whilst the Palestinians suffer.

        If the Israelis had more innate kindness they would wash the feet of the Palestinians and start restitution. But they will not. They want to complete the ethnic cleansing. With psychopaths like Bibi running the show, humanity will not emerge – and with most western leaders in lock step.

  • Republicofscotland

    “RT has reached 5 billion views on YouTube, maintaining its undisputed leadership among international news networks, far surpassing the total number of views for BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera and Euronews.”

    “By reaching more than 5 billion views, RT has confirmed its status as the world’s biggest news network on YouTube.”

    https://www.rt.com/about-us/press-releases/rt-youtube-5bn-views/

    RT, in my opinion is slightly less propaganda-esque, than say the US, or the UK, on matter surrounding foreign policy-maybe that’s why it’s a bit more popular on YT, than say CNN or the BBC.

    Still Putin has a iron grip on Russia’s political and media scene. As the crude attempted murder bid of outspoken journalist and media commentator Tatyana Felgenhaurs, shows, it was undoubtedly a pro-Putin attempt to shut her up once and for all.

    Tatayana Felgenhaur is a host and radio broadcaster at Russia’s only independent news and radio station Ekho Moskvy.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      Brian Davey,

      Interesting stuff, but to be fair to our host, I think Craig Murray wrote pretty much the same analysis over 2 weeks ago.

      Tony

  • Republicofscotland

    Your link asks even more questions, other than did the senators or Trump know.

    Such as Why are there a thousand US Special Forces operations ongoing across Africa?

    I mean they can’t all be there to fight “radical” Islamists.

      • freddy

        Environmental impact
        The impact on the local environment of the Arlit mining industry has been criticised by African and European Non-Governmental Organisations, and
        Areva NC has especially been accused of a disregard for health and environmental conditions around its operations.

        “Yellowcake” controversy
        In the build-up to the war in Iraq there was controversy over allegations in 2003 that Saddam Hussein was seeking to purchase uranium from Arlit.

        Expatriates and immigrants
        Arlit has developed a first-world infrastructure and airport to serve European workers and their families, and has become a transit point for illegal immigrants attempting to travel to Algeria, and from there, France.

        A large proportion of French Uranium both military and civil comes from mines in
        NIGER

        • freddy

          Actually, do you recall, the soldiers widow, was upset, she said, the army would not let her view her husbands body, she said, i know every inch of my husbands body, what are they hiding?

          • Republicofscotland

            Yes Freddy, infact that story was in the news today.

            Is there something specific that you want to add about her comment on her husbands body?

          • freddy

            only guessing RoS
            the drone might have massed him up?
            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-41726572
            Minutes later a drone arrived. French aircraft came to provide assistance within an hour, followed by attack helicopters, with the Nigeriens also providing backup.

            Five soldiers from Niger and three from the US Army Special Forces were reported killed, while two other Americans were wounded.

            The French airlifted the injured to the capital city Niamey, before they were eventually flown to Germany for treatment and later home to the US. The bodies of those killed were taken away by a private contractor.

          • freddy

            Bloody Hell, it is all in Wiki – It was an Islamic State attack

            In January 2013, a senior Niger official told Reuters that Bisa Williams, the then-United States Ambassador to Niger, requested permission to establish a drone base in a meeting with Nigerien President Mahamadou Issoufou.
            On 5 February, officials from both Niger and the U.S. said that the two countries signed a status of forces agreement that allowed the deployment of unarmed surveillance drones.
            In that month, U.S. President Barack Obama sent 150 military personnel to Niger to set up a surveillance drone operation that would aid France in its counterterrorism efforts in the Northern Mali conflict.
            In October 2015, Niger and the U.S. signed a military agreement committing the two countries “to work together in the fight against terrorism”.The Green Berets were sent to train the Niger Armed Forces (FAN) to assist in the fight against terrorists from neighboring countries.
            As of October 2017, there are about 800 U.S. military personnel in Niger, most of whom are working to build a second drone base for American and French aircraft in Agadez.
            Construction of the base is expected to be completed in 2018, which will allow the U.S. to conduct surveillance operations with the General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper to monitor ISIL insurgents flowing south and other extremists flowing north from the Sahel region.

  • freddy

    Catalan President Carles Puigdemont to be dismissed from his post,
    along with Catalonia’s vice president and all of the region’s ministers, according to Rajoy.

    RAJOY turns the tables on Puigdemont

  • reel guid

    Academics have revealed to the Guardian that Tory MP and government whip Chris Heaton-Harris wrote to all university vice-chancellors earlier this month asking them to supply the names of professors teaching European affairs “with particular reference to Brexit”.

    Rajoy there! We might say.

    • reel guid

      Heaton-Harris also wanted to be supplied with all such course materials too. Really sinister.

      It turns out Heaton-Harris is also a qualified football referee. Just like the part-time Tory MP and full-time gypsy hater Douglas Ross.

      Is it the black shirts that attracts these ultra-right wing Tory nutjobs to the football refereeing?

  • Tony_0pmoc

    Strong stuff from Peter Koenig (Peter Koenig is an economist and geopolitical analyst. He is also a former World Bank staff and worked extensively around the world in the fields of environment and water resources. He lectures at universities in the US, Europe and South America.) He is not making it up.

    https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2017/10/24/french-minister-of-defense-french-citizens-who-joined-jihad-should-die-on-the-battlefield/

    Extract

    “Imagine, this comes from the very countries that have created, trained and funded ISIS. Then they have nurtured ISIS for their purposes of spreading destruction, chaos, and assassination throughout the Middle east with focus on Syria and Iraq. These are the NATO governments who have left their young rudderless people without hope, seeking a ‘raison d’être’, a purpose in life.

    Desperate without hope and guidance, many with zero income, zero chance in our western ultra-competitive merciless society – that’s what they were then, when they joined the Jihad and that’s what they are today – at the point of being slaughtered with the permission of their governments who created the army they volunteered to fight for – out of despair.

    These European governments were and are in the first place interested in NATO, war and in pleasing their masters in Washington, but not in providing jobs or social safety nets for the young, the jobless, the desperate. These governments must destroy the world as a priority for their own elite’s greed and satisfaction, for the war industry’s profit. They do not care for the generations of young people either killed or without a future in Syria, Iraq, or even at home – and now they are ordering, yes, literally ordering to kill their own citizens, who left because their warmongering neoliberal – neofascist – economies had no space and interest in helping their hapless and hopeless citizens finding a purpose in life, a decent job, a roof over their head – and most important, inclusion in society. Feeling as outcasts, they felt inspired by the western initiated jihad propaganda – and left to fight a purposeless horrible western financed war.”

    Tony

  • freddy

    So Seargent La David Johnson’s body went missing – for some time? Only a hundred mud huts in the village?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongo_Tongo
    In March 2017 the Nigerien government declared a state of emergency in the Ouallam Department
    (and thus in Tongo Tongo) because of the spill-over from the war in nearby Mali, where large areas are under the control of jihadist groups linked to Al-Qaeda. As of fall 2017, many western nations advise against all travel in the Ouallam Department.
    The U.S. military has been operating in that area with local forces to help them fight terrorism and to disrupt the militants’ movements.
    On 4 October 2017 a 12-man team of U.S. soldiers from the Army’s 3rd Special Forces Group was operating with approximately 30 Forces Armees Nigeriennes (FAN) on a train and advise mission near Tongo Tongo. Militants, both Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) and ISIS, had been using a nearby route to travel back and forth into Mali and back to a base camp in Niger and traffic in black market merchandise. The Nigerien forces were working to disrupt this so-called rat line and interdict the militants. While scouting the route, the group came under attack from more than 40 enemy fighters, riding in a dozen vehicles and on about 20 motorcycles, firing from numerous directions with small arms. Four Army Special Forces soldiers and five Nigerien soldiers were killed in the ambush. A further 2 US soldiers were wounded. Initially the US acknowledged only 3 killed, as the fourth soldier initially was missing; his body was found two days later at the location of the incident. US Africa Command communicated that the first three soldiers killed were Staff Sergeants Bryan Black (35) of Puyallup, Washington, Jeremiah Johnson (39) of Springboro, Ohio and Dustin Wright of Lyons, Georgia.
    No group has taken responsibility for the killings, although officials commented that the US suspected a local branch of Islamic State was responsible

    • freddy

      If you go on Google Earth and look at Tongo Tongo, Niger,
      you can not see anything, it is a waste land?

      It is close to the border with Mali.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      freddy,

      I have never seen a mud hut, but I have seen an igloo. I built it myself, with my older brother in Oldham in the winter of 1963. We built it at Christmas. Most of it was still there at Easter. If we get another winter like that, and its entirely possible, nothing is going to work, cos the windmills do not turn round in a prologed anti-cyclone. Jeremy’s brother will confirm that. Piers Corbyn is a really clever bloke. Still got me coal in from last year, as a strategic reserve.

      And yes, I have seen people living underground in Matmata, Tunisia. You could tell from the TV aerials sticking out of the ground, and when we got out of the air-conditioned coach, we all had a similar reaction – like F8cx Me….like stepping into a hot oven. They filmed some of Star Wars there. I’m amazed the cameras didn’t melt.

      Tony

  • freddy

    rip off bastards
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41742398
    Residents in Edinburgh could face a 3% rise in council tax bills.
    The tax rise is one of a range of measures being considered by the council as it looks to make savings of almost £21m in next year’s budget.
    The authority is also proposing to cut funding to Edinburgh Leisure by £420,000, increase the cost of parking permits and charge for collecting garden waste.

  • Loony

    I note with amazement that the ardent supporters of Catalan independence have precisely nothing to say about the communique from el Colectivo Amor y Rabia (the love and rage collective). Oh how I wonder why this might be.

    Anarchists do not care about Catalan independence it is merely a likely looking hook to destroy Spain and hence to destroy the rule of law, and to destroy all vestiges of civilization – they openly admit their ideals in this regard. Just ask yourself how the bulk of the population are going to make out under such a scenario. Things are bad enough as they are – under these lunatics there would be absolutely no constraint on the most evil in our midst. You make think Tony Blair was bad, he would have been 1,000 times worse if he had been operating under the cover of the love and rage people.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      Loony,

      The Catalans are a strange bunch, like Millwall supporters, but not as nice. If I was in the Spanish Government, I would not only immediately advocate giving them their own independence, but also build the equivalent of Hadrian’s Wall around the place…

      I have read the theory, that this is all a part of the Yinon plan, now extended to the entire Med, and who am I to question it?

      This insanity makes both the Irish Sea and the North Sea, seem normal, if a little cold and murky. Must check my underwater videos.

      Tony

    • Geordie Bordie

      So, make the case for a united Spain.

      What is it?

      You haven’t made it.

      You’ve only warned of bodies piled ten metres high, if it’s not maintained.

      What’s your positive argument for that Spain you want to remain whole.

      • Loony

        Take a look at Spain in 1975 and compare and contrast that to the Spain of today. Everyone is wealthier and everyone has more freedom. It used to be a criminal offence to communicate in the Catalan language, now Catalan is a main language of instruction in Catalan schools. All of this progress has been achieved by Spain as a unified whole.

        You cannot erase history, no matter how distasteful you may find it. Tensions remain in Spain. The Franco regime ended only with the death of Franco, it was not removed in the way that Nazism or Italian fascism was removed. Spaniards committed atrocities against other Spaniards – in some cases within living memory of both victims and perpetrators. Spain sought to suppress these tensions through the the “pact of silence”

        Separatist movements run the risk of reopening old wounds – what good can come of this? If Catalonia achieves independence then the Basque country will surely follow. Spain will be weakened and perhaps other regions will also seek independence. If the unity of Spain is smashed then a few rich guys will make out like bandits and the mass of the population will be returned to the abject poverty from which they have so recently escaped.

        Who are the people agitating for Catalan independence? Mostly corrupt officials who see independence as way of avoiding Spanish justice and anarchists who see independence as merely providing a more bite sized chunk of territory that they can more easily destroy. Be in no doubt that these people care nothing for Catalan nationhood – they hate all nations and all borders, and are committed to equality of outcome. Think about what this means? This means that when Lionel Messi plays football he performs to exactly the same level as you. This means Einsteins theory of relativity is exactly equal to any theory of relativity that I may develop.

        Ultimately no one is going to allow these people to destroy Spain. Under such a scenario, what does it matter if you are killed, you are going to be killed anyway. The best way of getting people to fight is for them to understand that the only chance they have to survive is to fight. This contrasts markedly with recent British experiences of just going around bombing people for no apparent reason, but maybe it wins a few votes, or makes the eunuch of the day feel like he has real balls.

        I am not saying that there is anything magical about Spain and that it should never change under any circumstances. I am saying that to change it in the way proposed guarantees a catastrophic outcome for the mass of the population. I am also saying that some of the people most vocal in their support of the proposed change understand this all too well and that is the main reason that they are attracted to the entire idea.

        • Geordie Bordie

          OK. Fair enough, most of that.

          Not sure I fully understand this:

          “Be in no doubt that these people care nothing for Catalan nationhood – they hate all nations and all borders, and are committed to equality of outcome. Think about what this means? This means that when Lionel Messi plays football he performs to exactly the same level as you. This means Einsteins theory of relativity is exactly equal to any theory of relativity that I may develop.”

          Why is that specific to the Catalan issue. I mean, you get that in the US and Europe etc. Cultural Marxism, I think they call it.

          Is it your argument that Spain is against CM but the Catalan elite are for it?

          That would be like traditional Catholicism against the progressive Catalan elite?

          The Spanish elite then prefer the trad management system and the Catalan elite prefer the more progressive contemporary model, is what you’re saying.

          And I’m sorry, I don’t really get the following at all, unless its a reference to much higher stakes than I imagined in the trad versus prog gig above:

          “Ultimately no one is going to allow these people to destroy Spain. Under such a scenario, what does it matter if you are killed, you are going to be killed anyway. The best way of getting people to fight is for them to understand that the only chance they have to survive is to fight.”

          But yeah, if your argument is a reflection of the reality then you’d expect that Spain would be the last holdout against Cultural Marxism, in the Western world.

          Hard to see though. I’m sure Spain has enacted all the progressive measures that the EU has determined.

          I’d say it’s probably more about dosh and the skim, than the better way to manage a herd.

          • Loony

            Cultural Marxists/Anarchists are specific to the Catalan issue because they have gained a degree of control and influence there and are a driving force behind the independence agenda. Elsewhere they seem to be limited to things like transgender pronouns. Transgender pronouns tend not to impact most peoples day to day lives – ripping a country apart is a different order of magnitude.

            One way in which they have gained control and influence is through their infiltration of the education system. Most school lessons are in Catalan. Unlike say English or Spanish not a lot of people speak Catalan and so there is a relatively small pool of teachers on which to draw.

            For the most part Spain remains a country with conservative/traditionalist tendencies – people are nor impressed by this kind of thing.

            Catalan politicians are deeply corrupt – and are terrified that the forthcoming removal of Andorran banking secrecy laws will leave their crimes exposed. A good way to escape Spanish justice is to form a separate country,. To this end they have made common cause with Marxists/Anarchists – although the two groups ultimately loathe each other and each things that they can use the other.

            These people do not want independence – they want the destruction of Spain. Compare and contrast Basque nationalism with Catalan nationalism. Basque nationalism is of the more traditional kind – Basques want an independent country for Basques and they want that country to work for the benefit of the Basque people. Corporations such as Mondragon (which is basically a worker -consumer cooperative) provides a pointer as to what an independent Basque country would look like – and it looks pretty good. There is nothing analogous in Catalonia.

            Since the beginning of this month some 1,400 companies have moved their registered offices away from Catalonia. This is not good for the economy of Catalonia. How do the anarchists respond? Why by turning on Puigdemont and calling him a traitor because still he hesitates in declaring UDI. They want economic destruction and they want to export this destruction to Spain. People instinctively understand this and they will not allow it to happen.

            Spain is OK – it is not perfect, but then there is no perfect place on this earth. It has come a long way since Franco and it can go further if it is allowed. The more that people lend their support to this form of Catalan independence then the more likely it becomes that they will create a Franco 2.0. The great irony is that people like Craig Murray is working as hard as he can to help to create the very thing that he most loathes. Of course the greedy and the anarchists will love him as slavishly executes their agenda.

          • Geordie Bordie

            “For the most part Spain remains a country with conservative/traditionalist tendencies – people are nor impressed by this kind of thing.”

            Yes, but surely Spain has already enacted Cultural Marxist diktat from Brussels. To that extent they’ve already lost that Conservatism in any material sense.

            I fail to see that this could be a substantive issue in the current dispute.

            The other financial issues you mention seem much more pertinent.

  • philipallan

    I’m watching Catalonia with great interest. Franco Fascist Spain is not so far away from Westminster – Are we really so confident that even a real majority pro-independence for Scotland will not result in the same fascist denial? Anyone remember the tanks in streets of Glasgow in 1939 – 40?

    • Loony

      Yeah, yeah fascists and fascist tanks everywhere.

      Why not find another way, a way that neutralizes both fascists and their tanks.

      If everyone in Catalonia is so keen on independence and the Fascists in Madrid demand that Catalonia obeys the law, then what can be done? I know FC Barcelona (one of the biggest, wealthiest and most successful clubs in the world) could simply write a letter informing La Liga of their intention to withdraw from the Spanish league.

      There is no law that compels Barcelona to play football in the Spanish league – so no risk of fascist tanks. In addition to neutralizing the fascists such a tactic would send a powerful message around the world and alert millions of apolitical people to the plight and determination of the Catalans.

      Will this happen? No, for the simple reason that this is all about money and this is a losing move from a money perspective. There are no ideals and no great principles at stake. There are no fascists, but there are plenty of dupes being invited to cheer on other peoples money. One sides money is supported by tanks and the other sides money is supported by anarchists (oh the irony) and a few brainwashed citizens (who have largely been brainwashed by the anarchists and their witless helpers.

      • Tony_0pmoc

        Loony,

        “I know FC Barcelona (one of the biggest, wealthiest and most successful clubs in the world)”

        It’s hard to explain this, but kicking a bag of compressed air about on a field, does not actually do anything much to improve anyone’s quality of life. It doesn’t produce wealth, nor health. It does not improve the quality, nor the quantity of food, nor toys to play with. It does not result in our planet earth becoming prettier, with elegant nice functional buildings and infrastructure. It does not improve human intelligence. It does not promote peace…

        All it is is entertainment.

        Personally, I prefer razzamatazz which of couse has the same constraints…but I prefer music to football.

        http://www.salarazzmatazz.com/

        (its a great rock club)

        Tony

        • Loony

          Tony,

          You are correct, although the way things are does not mean that that is the way things must be. If you believe that Catalans are oppressed by Spain then if Barcelona withdrew from the Spanish league then that would serve to highlight the oppression of the Catalans and this would allow the football club to truly put something back into the community.

          I understand that in England Liverpool FC played an important role in helping the families of the bereaved from the Hillsborough disaster and assisted with community cohesion.

          Your link is for a club located in Barcelona but which advertises itself in Spanish and some English. Why is this website not in Catalan? – are the fascists preventing them from having a Catalan language website, or is the club itself a fascist Madrid plant. I think you should check this out before you visit – either they are oppressed and need your help or they are a nest of fascists. Apparently fascists are everywhere, so be careful.

          • Tony_0pmoc

            Loony,

            I couldn’t give a monkeys whether or not razzamatazz in Barcelona is run by the local Catalan Mafia or not. They treated us Really well. The beer was not that expensive, and they’ve got Alter Bridge on, on Thursday for 36 Euros. They have already played the Royal Albert Hall in London, but the ticket prices were considerably more than that (we were away)

            How much do they cost in New York? They come from Florida. Their previous band name was Creed…and I haven’t seen them yet…

            https://www.alterbridge.com/

            Tony

    • fred

      “Are we really so confident that even a real majority pro-independence for Scotland will not result in the same fascist denial?”

      Like the anti-independence for Scotland majority was met with denial by the Nationalists?

      • reel guid

        No, the anti-independence majority was met with contempt by the Westminster political class. Most of the proposed new powers from the Smith Commission were contemptuously voted down by MPs for English constituencies. No veto for Scotland on Brexit. And powers that are being repatriated from Brussels that are by definition devolved powers are to go to Westminster, instead of Holyrood where they should go by right.

        The No voters and the Yes voters in Scotland have been treated alike with the utmost contempt by the leadership and the parliamentarians of the Tory, Labour and Lib Dem parties.

    • Kempe

      Not you obviously. It was 1919 and in response to a wave of riots and strikes that spread across the whole country and not connected with Scottish independence. Tanks were also deployed on the streets of Liverpool to help the army keep order after the police went on strike and the battleship HMS Valiant was sent to the Mersey with instructions to shell the city with her 15″ guns if deemed necessary. There was a police strike in London and Luton Town Hall was torched.

      Of course it suits the victimhood mind set of some nationalists to believe it only happened in Glasgow.

    • Republicofscotland

      Philipallan.

      I think you’ll find that Brexit has shown who in the UK are closest to acting in a fascist manner.

      Here’s a wee clue UKIP, Tories, alas Oswald Mosley wouldn’t look out of place in either party today.

  • Eulalia Armengol

    Absolutely right! The corruption of the Spanisj justice provides all sorts of weapons to destry democracy in Catalonia… but soon enough in Navarra, Euskadi and Castilla. The Gvnt. has already sent a message to these autonomies that article 155 (autonomy abolition) could be applied to them.

  • freddy

    Afrin’s next? Erdogan declares Idlib op largely completed, threatens Syrian Kurdish ‘terrorists’
    https://www.rt.com/news/407669-erdogan-idlib-threats-kurds/

    Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Ankara’s operation in Syria’s Idlib is largely over, but new military targets could lie ahead, with the Syrian Kurdish forces of northern Aleppo, with an allegedly vast “terrorist” element, possibly in Turkey’s crosshairs.

    So Russia/Syria, will let the Turks take the hit, to remove the Kurdish problem, from Syria.

    Kurds were the darlings of the Americans but perhaps their usefulness has expired?

    • giyane

      Freddie
      Babylon was utterly intransigent, and the some parts of the region resisted Islam until Genghis Khan showed a greater intransigence. That’s what the Turks find to love inside themselves, an intransigence greater than the intransigence of the enemies of Islam. this is also one of the qualities of the companions of our prophet SAW. Many UK Asians admire Erdogan for his role in Islamic State, thinking he was targeting non-Muslims like the Yezidis, but the main sufferers have been the Muslims, with the Yazidis thrown in for political respectability so that Erdogan can oil his greasy pockets like a penguin in an oil-slick.

      The Iraqi Kurds were and still are the most logical of Islamic Scholars. They detest politics, and the antics of Barzani stealing hundreds of billions of the people’s dollars from oil. They detest Turkey’s corruption and serving NATO. The US and the UK have a love affair , as you say, with this deep , Kurdish Islamic intelligence. Similarly with the Islamic intelligence of the region of Boznia , which provided Istanbul in the time of the Caliphate with its best legal and religious brains.

      But they do not have a love affair with the resistance Kurds in Turkey and Syria who like politics and war, instead of knowledge and argument. The US has recently armed the PKK with old Soviet weapons.

      Not all Kurds are the same.

  • freddy

    Catalonia
    Five Mossos officers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said they believed the 17,000-strong force was split among those who wanted independence and those who opposed it,
    with three of those saying they would not use force to remove ministers and lawmakers from power.
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-catalonia-mossos-analy/demoralised-and-divided-inside-catalonias-police-force-idUKKBN1CT2MP
    He said many others felt the same, but added: “I would have to obey it. My family has to eat.”

    and there in a nutshell dear friends
    you have it.

    • freddy

      But a senior government source said force may be necessary depending on the reaction in Catalonia.

      “If the parliament has to be emptied out and closed, if the councillors’ offices have to be cleared out – if they obey there’s no problem,
      but if they don’t obey it will have to be enforced,” the source said.

      Spain will use proportional force.

  • freddy

    Could it have been Israel? Not us, say Yanks.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-strike/deadly-air-strike-hits-syrian-government-held-deir-al-zor-state-tv-monitor-idUKKBN1CS2N2
    An air raid in the government-held Qusur district of Deir al-Zor city in eastern Syria killed more than a dozen people,
    Syrian state television and a war monitor said on Monday.

    State television said jets from a U.S.A.-led international coalition battling Islamic State carried out the air strike and that it killed 14 civilians and wounded 32 others.

    • freddy

      Let’s think that through

      Syria/Russia re-take Deir al-Zor City from Islamic State,
      it was unlikely to have been Syria or Russia or Iran or Iraq or Turkey
      The Americans claim it was not the coalition of the willing, could it have been Saudi?
      Could it have been Jordan?
      Could it have been Israel?

  • reel guid

    Unionist group These Islands Ltd have got their website up and running. Listed among the luminaries on their advisory panel is none other than nuclear industry cheerleader and Francoist sympathiser Brain Wilson.

  • reel guid

    I shouldn’t think These Islands Ltd are going to acquire mass appeal. Up first to bat for them on their website is one Professor Nigel Biggar, an Oxford theologian. With an incredibly tedious and abstruse essay. I defy anyone to read it in its entirety.

    • giyane

      Come on reelie, i’m up for it, giyyus a link, there are no religious thinkers in Oxford, only officionados of the British status quo like Rees-Morgue. Having attended that fatuous ivory tower for three whole years of my life, I know that it is a place dedicated to the exercising of adolescent sexual energies and the stifling of creativity and creative thought.

    • Republicofscotland

      reel guid.

      They remined of that other stupid group No Borders. No one paid a blind bit of attention to them either.

      Now there’s bound to be borders between the UK and the EU, and then there’s NI’s on-off border. They shouldve renamed themselves No Brains.

      Meanwhile London’s man in Scotland Fluffy Mundell has come under fire (and rightly so) due the spiralling cost of his propaganda office, which at present cost the taxpayer a whopping £9 million quid. Up £8.8 million since 2010, and from a handful of staff to a eye watering 71 personnel.

      Strangely there’s less to do now at the Scottish office, than pre-2010 due to more powers devolved to Holyrood.

      In my opinion Fluffy’s office is now purely a propaganda office for London.

    • giyane

      Professor Nigel Biggar writes that the UK is good for: upholding of a humane international order.
      Anybody need a list over the last 30 years? Oh, he gives one example:
      ” in the light of the atrociously inhumane politics of Islamic State in Syria and Iraq and of other jihadist movements in Nigeria and Sudan, it should now be clearer to us that the political liberty, accountability, and humanity that we have achieved in Britain should not be taken for granted ”
      Yes sir, but who founded the malign institution of the Muslim Brotherhood,which fosters internecine hatred and illiberal values in Egypt in 1920? Who supported Islamist terrorists in parliament in January 2017? Oxfordshire MP Boorish Johnson.
      Sir mixes in a little light projection {ignoring the motes in his own eye, while criticising others] to build up his thesis:
      “The separating Scots would not have got all that they wanted, they would have been frustrated, and their traditional resentment of England would only have deepened.”
      ” Anglo-Scottish peace (like European peace) is a fragile historical achievement”
      Indeed it’s not every day in human history where absolute brutality, genocide, removal of population by force from their lands and cities, have resulted in ‘peace’.
      How long is this going on for? Some sites tell you 5 min read.

      he proceeds from a quote from our Gordon; “The rationale for the Union, according to Brown, is to be found in the common advantages that all Britons enjoy from having an integrated economy, from the pooling of risks, and from the transfer of resources from richer to poorer across the whole territory of the UK”
      Scotland is richer in natural resources and in political intelligence. That is why these commodities have been exported in vast quantities from Scotland to England over the years.

      The waffle continues: “Third, if the UK is expected to give up the use of hard power, is that because no one should use it at all …?” As Jeremy Corbyn recently stated in truth, the UK has not fought a just war in the last 30 years. The status quo propagandist is trying to hold up the crimes of UK Foreign Policy,,, the destruction of the richest country in Africa, the return of fascism in Europe, the total destruction of Syria by ruthless Islamists, the mass production of weapons in Bulgaria for our allies instead of the Soviet Union’s, the imprisonment of refugees passing through Turkey, the compulsory purchase of agricultural land in Poland and elsewhere… as boons of UK hard power.

      Biggar moves on to Irish Unification: ” Right now it would be fair to say that London has shown both the willingness and the ability to reform . No nonono. The Uk has applied huge quantities and whitewash and additional levels of lies to those that were festering before, to its heaps of horse manure it has dumped onto the peoples of Ireland over the centuries, same as in Syria by igniting merciless ethnic and religious internecine warfare. Allah’s curse be on the liars.

      What else? Scotland has a seat in the Bank of England. In July the sun is hot. Is it shining? no it’s not.
      Volatility of Scottish oil prices. And just exactly who, apart from US fracking, endeavoured to raid the Iraqi piggy bank of oil at knock-down prices, and deliver it to Israel , taking pressure off demand for oil. Was it USUKIS, or was it outer Mongolia?

      I can’t cope with much more of this tripe: ” It’s true that all of the good things that the UK serves to promote–the stronger security of liberal democracy,” No. ” multinational solidarity “, NO and the habits of responsibility for liberal international order” 1000 x No. The habits of responsibility for liberal international order were displayed in 2007 when the economic system of the UK and the US collapsed, disintegrated and bankrupted our economies and those who were following our failed fiscal model. I include fiscal because it sounds clever. The system we have is to nano-ise banking interest to the point where it is either indistinguishable from capital, or has moved from being liquidity to being ether, whereby it is syphoned off to make illegal funds for illegal international wars.

      Good try, Professor Biggar. Your pension is guaranteed for a number of years.

      • Republicofscotland

        Giyane.

        Bravo.

        You read far more of his rose tinted view of Britain than I could ever stomach. ?

      • reel guid

        Another academic on the These Islands advisory panel is the Westminster worshipper Professor Peter Hennessy. At least he writes better than Prof. Biggar. Then again, who doesn’t?

  • freddy

    Iraqi Kurdistan proposed Wednesday to freeze the results of its independence referendum, which triggered a major crisis with Baghdad.

    Iraq has called for the cancellation of the results of the vote, which saw a massive “yes” for independence,
    as a precondition for any talks.

    In retaliation, Iraq recently seized large areas of territory that Kurdish forces had captured over the years beyond the borders of the autonomous region.
    http://www.france24.com/en/20171025-iraqi-kurdistan-offers-freeze-results-independence-referendum-baghdad

    Not all easy peasey Catalonia

    In a statement released overnight, the Kurdistan government said it would “propose to the government and Iraqi public opinion (…) the freezing of the results of the referendum

  • freddy

    Looks like the Labour party have just thrown out one of their new Members for being politically incorrect.
    twats
    they need all the M.P. numbers they can get.

  • anteater

    Why all the fuss about independence for Catalonia? No-one is insisting that the Czech Republic / Slovakia separation was a disaster? Or insisting that all the previous bits of Yugoslavia that became separate countries led to some great destruction? The fact that there were a hell of a lot of people out on the street, coupled with media censorship, brutal police repression and lack of EU condemnation says it all. The elites will not tolerate populist movements, they are addicted to robbing the citizens of the EU for their own ends.
    This whole thing is way bigger than Catalonia. The way forward is to have, instead of increasingly political integration, a proper common market as the EU was originally called, and independence for those who feel that they have a separate identity. The real problem is a problem that both Spain and the Catalans have in common – it is usury.

    • freddy

      There is a bit of fuss about Catalonia, because lives at at risk, economies will crash, and destruction will happen.

  • jbr

    Thankyou for an excellent article and reading of the situation. I have been following Catalan politics for years.

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