There is a major difference between Alexander Litvinenko and Sergei Skripal, which is not being reflected in the media. Litvinenko was a good man who attempted to expose abuses of power within Russia, in defence of the rights of Russians. Skripal is a traitor who sold the identities of Russian agents abroad to the UK, in exchange for hard cash. This may very well have caused the deaths of some of those Russian agents operating in conflict zones. If this is indeed a poisoning, there are a great many people who may want Mr Skripal dead – nor in this murky world should we overlook the fact that he must have known interesting things about his MI6 handlers. “Litvinenko II” is rather too pat and obvious, and could be a false flag set-up.
I certainly hope that Skripal, his companion, and anybody else affected, recover fully from whatever has attacked them. But I moved long ago past a world view where my country are the “goodies” and Russians are the “baddies”, and instead I reached an understanding that those in power oppress the people, universally. The idea that the elaborate spy games between world intelligence agencies are a battle between right and wrong, is for the story books. They are all wrong, all part of a system where power over people is controlled for the benefit of the wealthy, and battles are over hard resources, whichever “side” you are on.
As regards the current load of old bollocks, did it really take the police and the intelligence services two days, to work out that the woman with the spy was his daughter? That is not very efficient, however it may well be true. Boris will be in big trouble with England Football fans, if he tries to stop them going to Russia. Even Lemmy went to play in Moscow, whilst all this nonsense was kicking off. Admittedly he is dead now, but all his fans were completely amazed that he lived to the age he did. No one suspects the Russians killed him.
On a Russian related matter I rarely completely agree with Dmitry Orlov, and I am far from sure that I agree with all of his article today
(which is available for free), but he doesn’t half write well, even if he is a Russian, who has gone back home to Russia from the USA where he has spent most of his life. He is not stupid.
Tony
http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/better-nukes-for-safer-planet.html
Extract
“I hope that the US doesn’t plan to attack anyone either, because, given its recent history, this won’t work. Threatening the whole planet and forcing it to use the US dollar in international trade (and destroying countries, such as Iraq and Libya, when they refuse); running huge trade deficits with virtually the entire world and forcing reserve banks around the world to buy up US government debt; leveraging that debt to run up colossal budget deficits (now around a trillion dollars a year); and robbing the entire planet by printing money and spending it on various corrupt schemes—that, my friends, has been America’s business plan since around the 1970s. And it is unraveling before our eyes.
I have the audacity to hope that the dismantling of the American Empire will proceed as copacetically as the dismantling of the Soviet Empire did. (This is not to say that it won’t be humiliating or impoverishing, or that it won’t be accompanied by a huge increase in morbidity and mortality.) One of my greatest fears over the past decade was that Russia wouldn’t take the US and NATO seriously enough and just try to wait them out. After all, what is there to really to fear from a nation that has over a 100 trillion dollars in unfunded entitlements, that’s full of opioid addicts, with 100 million working-age people permanently out of work, with decrepit infrastructure and poisoned national politics? And as far as NATO, there is, of course, Germany, which is busy rewriting “Deutschland, Deutschland, über alles” to be gender-neutral. What are they supposed to do next? March on Moscow under a rainbow banner and hope that the Russians die laughing? Oh, and there’s also NATO’s largest Eurasian asset, Turkey, which is currently busy slaughtering America’s Kurdish assets in Northern Syria.
But simply waiting them out would have been a gamble, because in its death throes the American Empire could have lashed out in unpredictable ways. I am glad that Russia chose not to gamble with its national security. Now that the US has been safely checkmated using the new Russian weapons systems, I feel that the world is in a much better place. If you like peace, then it seems like your best option is to also like nukes—the best ones possible, ones against which no deterrent exists, and wielded by peaceful, law-abiding nations that have no evil designs on the rest of the planet.”
@ Tony_0pmoc March 6, 2018 at 17:29
That excerpt certainly is a cracker!
I went and read the whole article. Wow! I’ve bookmarked the ClubOrlov blog now, definitely worth reading. Thank you, Tony. (Another nail driven into the rancid joke the Guardian has become. Totally untrustworthy.)
Way back we established that Alex Younger is NOT the son of George Younger. Why repeat false information?
George Kenneth Hotson Younger, 4th Viscount Younger of Leckie1
M, #192008, b. 22 September 1931, d. 26 January 2003
http://www.thepeerage.com/p19201.htm#i192008
Children of George Kenneth Hotson Younger, 4th Viscount Younger of Leckie and Diana Rhona Tuck
James Edward George Younger, 5th Viscount Younger+4 b. 11 Nov 1955
Joanna Rosalind Younger+4 b. 16 Jan 1958
Charles Gerald Alexander Younger+4 b. 4 Oct 1959
Andrew Seymour Robert Younger+4 b. 19 Nov 1962
——
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Younger
Born 4th July 1963
” Why repeat false information? ”
It’s what he does best.
Alex Younger took over at SIS in 2014. He doesn’t (yet) have a knighthood but he does have a degree in economics from that university he never attended.
You did, I didn’t. Seems Alex Younger was born in 1953 out of wedlock, and well before the legitimate ones. Alex doesn’t even mention where he was born, who his parents are, and where he allegedly received an economics degree.
I do not mention any of my bastards either, though this family certainly has Alexander as a name on its minid,
And I just repeat my own false info, like when i even agree with something you said.
I’m usually sceptical about false flags but given that the victim here has already proven himself capable of extreme acts of dishonesty and treachery it has to be considered a possibility. Russia is winning in Syria, Putin is going to win the election, there is a wide perception that Russia tricked America and the World Cup is coming soon. The CIA and their vassals will surely want to change the narrative.
Watching the BBC today has been entertaining. Skirpal was a whistleblower this morning but the 6 o’clock news obviously had to spell out how he came to the UK.
His ‘companion’ was his daughter. His son died of ‘liver failure’ in St Petersburg. There are two versions of how his wife died ( car crash? cancer?) He was or had been also involved in Russian business, apparently. And we’re not known for spraying nerve agent* around in public places when someone gets embarrassing, either. I doubt even SIS’s H&S policy allows for that.
Agree with the naivety of a goodies vs baddies mindset. However, however incompetently, the UK state acts in its own self-interest, while the Russian and American ones act in theirs – as a citizen of the first, that’s where my allegiance remains, in the absence of anything more than tendentious speculation.
* Or polonium, but it’s not that. Too slow. Very likely an ACE inhibitor, from the published symptoms, but I’d believe something working on the glutamate pathway too.
I applaud your patriotism, which if we were not dealing with an empire that took us into an illegal war in Iraq on false pretences, has totally destabilised the Middle East, and taken away former legal protection for its citizens based on falsity, I might even join you in praising the land of my birth. As it is my main suspicion, if there has been any malpractice in these sudden illnesses of Mr Skripal and his daughter, is that the same people who murdered Dr David Kelly may well be reponsible. That being so don’t expect any answers soon, even from people as reliable and trustworthy as our spooks.
You’re second..
An Inconvenient Death – Miles Goslett
Published April 5th 2018
£9.99
http://headofzeus.com/book/inconvenient-death
‘The death of Dr David Kelly in 2003 remains one of the most mysterious episodes in recent British political history. This scrupulous scientist, an expert on weapons of mass destruction, was caught up in the rush to war in Iraq and by pressure of those around Tony Blair to provide evidence that Saddam Hussein was producing chemical weapons. Kelly seemed to have tipped into sudden depression when he was outed as a source by Andrew Gilligan and found himself in the harsh spotlight of political and media attention.
But the circumstances of his death are replete with disquieting questions – every detail, from his motives to the method of his death, his body’s discovery and the way in which the state investigated his demise, seems on close examination not to make sense. In this painstaking and levelheaded investigative book about Kelly’s death, Miles Goslett shows why we should be deeply sceptical of the official narrative and examines the uses of intelligence and the desperate measures adopted in those feverish summer months of 2003.’
Richard Ingrams and Peter Oborne quotes on back cover.
The disquieting can start with these:
‘What role, if any, did Government agencies have in choosing the autopsy team?’
‘What role, if any, did Government Agencies have in choosing the coroner?’
‘Was the coroner known to deliver verdicts sympathetic to Government/SIS interests?’
‘Why are doctors 15 years later still campaigning to have the official cause of death revoked?’
Miles Goslett puts forward the premise that Kelly died of natural causes in circumstances embarrassing to to government(s)? During an interrogation.
Well let me put you straight on this, the US government were not in the least way embarrassed.
If Kelly had not blabbed US secrets willy nilly to his journalist mates, if he hadn’t told a US reporter that the president was lying over the claims that Mobile WMD (Bio) Labs had been discovered in Iraq (and the story was printed the day after in the NYT) and if Jack Straw hadn’t refused (in the week Kelly died) to share intelligence re Iraq & WMD with the CIA (we were, after all fighting a war with the US against Iraq at the time), Straw went as far to ridicule the CIA Director in public. Then Kelly might be enjoying his retirement now.
Goslett’s book will reignite the mystery but this time the Fact of Murder will become more apparent (not Goslett’s intention I assure you).
Kelly’s body was moved after death (natural causes, suicide or murder) to a remote copse on the banks of the Thames. An inconvenient cadaver could be chucked off a bridge into the river from a passing car. The Harrowdown Hill Deposition required planning, reconnoitering, preparation and a IR sweep of the area immediately prior to delivery of the consignment.
Not something that could be achieved by impulsive improvisation!
However the receiving crew (boat people) made such a hash of it that impulsive improvisation would have been the better option (chuck the body from a bridge).
The boat crew were out of radio contact (masked by Harrowdown Hill) so a 45 ft radio mast was erected in Southmoor to contact them, it failed to get a signal. So another radio mast was erected, this time a 100ft mast, this too failed to get a signal. So a messenger was sent.
The body had been placed sat against a tree, Kelly had been on his back at the time of death and there was a fear that livor mortis (discolouring of the skin of a dead body at its lowest points) may give the game away that Kelly had not died in a sat up position.
The messenger arrived too late to have the body moved to flat on its back, it had already been discovered by a volunteer search team. The funny thing is that the body didn’t need moving at all as the livor mortis was still mobile during the Post Mortem examination in at the hospital. (NB what drugs prevent livor mortis setting?)
What followed was a comedy of errors (a sick comedy but a comedy nonetheless).
No Mr Goslett it was not an inconvenient death it was Murder, a botched Murder.
@ Mr Toad’s Mate
How can you make those assumptions? Have you read the book? It isn’t published until next month!
Well, let’s see. We may have some idea of the toxin used this afternoon:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/07/russian-spy-police-appeal-for-witnesses-as-cobra-meeting-takes-place
But, let’s face it, if the authorities stay schtum, they’re obviously covering up a false-flag. And if they come out with a credible story, they’re covering up for a false-flag. Skripal is alive and well and living with his daughter in Cannes, and no actors were injured in this flagrant attempt to make dear Vladimir look bad just before his democratic election with 90% of the vote (coming soon).
All trolls please copy.
There’s no denying that media have adequate form in being wrong about almost everything of importance. Not to mention documented evidence of being mendaciously wrong on numerous occasions. I don’t assume we’ve been informed of the facts or that we ever shall and on the available evidence I’d be naive to do so. Besides all of that, we do have adequate evidence of the concerted effort to personify Russia in the person of Vladimir Putin and also as an unreasoning, hostile and uniquely evil empire. Compared to the 20 million plus war dead of American aggression since 1945? If we compare Russia to Britain or America in the last twenty years, especially in the context of recent history, there’s a clear disparity. We have to come to the conclusion that it’s hardly about Russia at all.
And of course, scepticism of Putin and of the Junta at home have never been mutually exclusive, as some attempt to claim.
The UK is guilty of massive war crimes in Iraq and many other atrocities over centuries of imperialism.
Staging something like this is a drop in the ocean in comparison.
“The UK is guilty of massive war crimes in Iraq”
Can you list these, please?
You could find out yourself. Google is your friend….
D_Majestic
“You could find out yourself. Google is your friend….”
Google might be Anon1’s friend but it is no friend of anyone trying to get at the truth. 🙂
Anon 1
Here we are it is just the tip of the iceberg.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/sep/01/winston-churchill-shocking-use-chemical-weapons
@ Ba’al Zevul March 6, 2018 at 19:04
ACE inhibitor! I always did think my GP was out to get me!
It is an interesting fact of nature that small doses of chemicals have very different effects to large ones.
Take Tumour Necrosis Factor Alpha (aka TNFa to those in the game): it was discovered as a protein which caused tumours to regress and shown to do that through attacking and destroying the blood vessels which had invaded the tumour to feed it.
At low doses, however, the same protein can stimulate the growth of blood vessels. Which might cause distant micro-metastases to acquire a blood supply and grow….
So you can see the conundrum medics might have trying to use TNFa to treat cancer…..
Rhys,
On a lighter note – President Trump is in the news this morning ( yet again).
This time…
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/stormy-daniels-sues-donald-trump-over-efforts-silence-020148338.html
Yes – another conundrum – which even the best doctors can’t fix.
Ha…like the prostitute filing a claim for non-payment on the complete bill!
P.S. At least Monica Lewinsky never charged Bill Clinton and never sued him for service rendered. Now – there is real class.
Always suspected that Trump liked to hang around ” shithole” ( to use his phrase) people
BUT – ON A SERIOUS NOTE – ISN’T THIS MAN THE LEADER OF THE WESTERN WORLD – ACUTUALLY – THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD.
SHOULDN’T WE ALL BE CONCERNED – MORE THAN JUST BE A LITTLE CONCERNED?
Seriously flaccid Ba’al – or was that the ACE inhibiter 😉
Mark…very sadly I say you will be the first Bolshevik to go when the World’s biggest Oligarch brings the UK to it’s knees for Gazprom.
I’m more green than red Ben albeit who wants factionalism when most here are on the same page speaking as one voice? ‘We shall overcome one day’ comes to mind…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l19MJbo7a3Y
In my experience, the more factual, the less exciting. Hence the appeal of the conspiracy theory.
Naturally, if the Russian state is involved, its social media chorus will be harmonising on the theme: ‘wasn’t me, guv’, and your response is unsurprising.
Incidentally, the CCTV footage published by all media is now thought not to be Skripal and daughter but two different individuals, both of whom seem to be aware of the camera*. It strikes me that the gait of the ‘woman’ in the shot is distinctly masculine, and apart from the feminine trousers there’s little to suggest ‘she’ is female. Now there’s a theory to run with…
*How many of us pay any attention to CCTV cameras these days? Ok, maybe Goss and Golding do. Understandable.
Ba’al
When our country abandons racist antiquated colonialist policies we can then all rejoice in nationalism.
You mean like invading Crimea?
No I am not Russian. However even there it is not racist. I mean:
Iran 1953, Sykes Picot, Iraq 1990 and 2003, Libya 2011, supporting salafist in Yemen, Syria several times since the 40s and supporting Apartheid in South Africa and in Palestine. Not comprehensive.
Most of that seems to involve promoting indigenous extremist Sunni ideology. Not a brilliant idea, as it turns out, but hardly colonialist And everybody likes to have friendly leaders running strategically important areas. Unfriendly ones will rip the country off as effectively, and charge more for the product. See also, Africa today.
Russia? Russia invaded Ukraine? Come, come. Russia didn’t invade Ukraine in 2014. It just plain old didn’t. Ask anyone in a position to know and an obligation to speak honestly:
OSCE Secretary General Lamberto Zannier said he saw no Russian troops in Ukraine. http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150213/1018221522.html
Ukraine Chief of Staff Admits No Russian Troops in Donetsk. http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150129/1017514425.html
French President Hollande says No Evidence of Russian Military Hardware Presence in Ukraine. http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150220/1018534477.html
NATO Unable to Provide Proof of Alleged Russian Troops in Ukraine. http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150212/1018168758.html
Markian Lubkivsky, the adviser to the head of the SBU (the Ukrainian version of the CIA) stated there are NO RUSSIAN TROOPS ON UKRANIAN SOIL. He said the SBU counted about 5000 Russian nationals, but not Russian soldiers in Donetsk and Lugansk Peoples Republics. He further clarified that there were no organized Russian units in Donbass. http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ukraine-2nd-Day-of-Heavy-F-by-George EliasonAtrocities_Congress_Genocide_Holocaust-141107-203.html
Former NATO General Kujat: I don’t believe evidence of Russian invasion. https://youtu.be/l0_yaWyA-1s
George Eliason’s answer to What is some strong evidence that Russian troops or arms are in the East Ukraine? https://www.quora.com/What-is-some-strong-evidence-that-Russian-troops-or-arms-are-in-the-East-Ukraine/answer/George-Eliason
Ah those ‘little green men’ – a master stroke eh? Well maybe when contrasted to the UK/US invasion of Iraq and the bloody aftermath – I vividly recall the images sent to me of small Iraqi children attracted to the glint of cluster bomblets only to have their hands blown off by these ‘toys.’
Those ‘polite’ men with no insignia were Russian special forces – so what? – What you don’t know is Britain and the US were investing in Crimea – the so called ‘charitable grants’ , laying the foundation for their planned take over.
Unlike Iraq post-war, the Crimean annexation was masterfully executed by Russia; integration included legislation that would make federal districts out of the territory of Crimea and city of Sevastopol (the location of Russia’s long-held Black Sea naval base). My friend that is non-linear war, well executed with no dead children and bereaved families, no ISIS charade, no mass evacuation and no refugee babies washed up on remote beaches.
Ba’al
You write well in other contexts and logically so why are you being difficult?
“Most of that seems to involve promoting indigenous extremist Sunni ideology. Not a brilliant idea, as it turns out, but hardly colonialist And everybody likes to have friendly leaders running strategically important areas. Unfriendly ones will rip the country off as effectively, and charge more for the product.”
You first of all in the above statement admit that this is not for democracy but you then pretend to fail to see that this is exactly what neocolonialism does, either appoint the leaders we want for them, or compliant leaders who will obey the neoliberalism imposed as long as they get thier Sharia law.
You also seem to have forgotten that the original idea for Iraq was to appoint a proconsul but that this idea completely failed.
@mark golding here.
Yes.
@ Stu March 6, 2018 at 18:17
Aaargh, World Cup in Moscow? Can’t have that! Can’t have our football fans seeing the real Russian people, and finding out they don’t, actually, have horns, and forked tongue and tail. And that vodka is cheaper than in the UK, where our government levies super-heavy taxes on it (The minimum price a litre of vodka under £4).
That’s the criterion for a superior civilisation, cheap ethanol. Go, Dynamo. Kiss some nashis while you’re there (and experience the Russian health system – marvellous, I’m told)
Spot on Craig.
Something strange has just happened. LondonBob’s comment, to which I responded here:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/skripal-no-litvinenko/comment-page-1/#comment-719788
was at the top of page 2. My comment did not even nest beneath LondonBob’s comment to which it was a response but ended up as a comment on its own. I know the spooks don’t want you to know who is really culpable in these matters but this is ridiculous. 🙂
The time stamps prove what I say.
Yes John. there’s a special section of MI5 just to deal with you, didn’t you know?
How would you know?
Actually apart from you everybody else on this blog works in the same office at GCHQ.
It’s your turn to get the coffee in Inkester.
Because his handler is Paul Merton, who has never used sardonic humour in his life??
Touching concern here for secret agents. Not like:
” Covert action should not be confused with missionary work.”
Henry Kissinger, commenting on the US sellout of the Kurds in Iraq in 1975
Surely Putin, and the Russian’s Are not nearly as thick as the nutters, and Criminals running the UK..
to have carried out this attack at a very crucial time for Russia. Here is G.G, saying exactly this –
“Would Russia be stupid enough to carry out such an act two weeks before the presidential elections and 100 days before the World Cup in Russia? It would overshadow, politically speaking, these pretty landmark events for Russia. Would Putin be stupid enough to do this at this time? I am afraid I have to conclude it’s not likely.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Ebp8XjjH6YA
You talk like there is some way Putin could lose the election. He got 64% of the vote last time his nearest contender got 17%. He isn’t going to lose 50 points by being seen as a strong leader who punishes traitors to Russia.
Boris says he’ll bring Russia to heel. Nice piece of psychological projection from the party whose policy of Islamo-fascist terror in Syria has been brought to heel by Russia. Swivel-eyed coke-heads rule, OK? Or as Craig so politely puts it, Skripal might be a false flag. MI6 is Really really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
Head-chopper in chief coming to London tomorrow and needs convincing urgently that they haven’t been double-crossed by Bull-shit-boy into wasting trillions on Syria, only for Russia and Assad to win. It’ll be good for Mrs May to be seen in contrast with a sadist, mass- murderer whose respect for freedom of speech is way below zero. Look how lucky you are to have me, and not him.
I wonder whether they’ll discuss Qatar.
Why would he be seen to be stronger by attempting the life on a supposedly harmless neutralised defector?
When people construct scenarios about media stories influencing people, can they please think about what market or markets they think are being influenced. Even if a team of alleged SVR assassins get remanded in custody in Salisbury magistrates’ court tomorrow morning, that won’t have the slightest effect on how anybody votes in Russia.
‘Government Policy on Russia’:
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-03-06/debates/E416F6C5-50D9-47FF-8C3E-0946CE99E6CA/GovernmentPolicyOnRussia#contribution-FE75A30A-AA7C-4CDA-85C2-FFC6BCB84495
‘…We are all extremely concerned about the incident in Salisbury yesterday, and I am sure we all hope for the recovery of Mr Skripal and his daughter. I am sure both sides of the House will join me in praising the professionalism and frankly, given the nature of previous poisonings, the bravery of the emergency services that dealt with this incident….’
So, if as people are saying, ambulance crews arrived all kitted out in CBN suits and masks, how come they knew who the guy was? Surely, if someone calls 999 because a couple of people have passed out on a seat, they just get there a**es there as soon as pos, to sus things out. Who tipped them off to wear CBN suits? Or was he wearing a big sign, ‘I’m an ex-KGB whistleblower’ on his chest?
I noticed that Boris Johnson has an injury to the bridge of his nose.
Supposedly it is a ‘tennis injury’. Really?
Boris gets bloody nose as No 10 kicks World Cup boycott into long grass
The foreign secretary threatens Russia with robust action if it had a hand in Sergei Skripal case
6 Mar 2018 18.03 GMT
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/06/boris-johnson-promises-a-bloody-nose-in-response-to-poisoning
He is not a pretty sight at the best of times.
Lol Sharp ears
I think Nearly All the world Knows the Russia Hysterics is Fake News.. The world cup will be Great.. The Tartan Army wont be there…for a change. But Not because the the Russophobic Wailings of the likes of B.J. Cretin that he is
Is that mark on his nose where they tried to insert a new septum for the bastard because heavy cocaine use had worn away his old one?
Got to love John Grace’s comments: “It wasn’t the best of looks. Especially when combined with the large bags that have formed under his eyes. The job is taking its toll.”
That’s not a “large scab”. It only looks about 7mm across.
He means Boris is a total cokehead Dark circles under the eyes are a known symptom.
@ Sharp Ears March 6, 2018 at 21:13
So the poor bugger has ‘an injury to the bridge of his nose’ eh? Shouldn’t scoff, could happen to any off us. Luckily, I know the perfect remedy for ‘Bullingdon Boris’ – a tourniquet round the throat; cures bird flu as well, I’ve heard.
‘URGENT: Stop the closed door policy making on immigration detention’:
https://action.freedomfromtorture.org/stop-closed-door-policy-making-immigration-detention?
‘Right now, the Home Office is reviewing the definition of torture within its Adults at Risk policy. If it gets this definition wrong, vulnerable people, like torture survivors, could be wrongly detained, causing significant pain and distress. It is vital we act now and make sure they get it right this time.
Detention is hugely damaging for people who’ve survived torture: it causes or worsens anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress, suicidal thoughts and self-harm.
A recent High Court judgement ruled that the definition of torture that was being used in the Home Office’s Adults at Risk policy was unlawful and was resulting in the unlawful detention of survivors.
The Home Office has just drafted a new definition of torture behind closed doors, inviting input from only a small number of organisations and without the benefit of the findings of Stephen Shaw’s independent review of vulnerable people in detention….’
Please sign this letter.
Craig sums things up correctly, in my view. Today, in a coffee shop, I explained to my friend that in the area of geopolitics, Putin has the high ground. What Russia, today, says about the US is correct. What the US, today, says about Russia actually applies to itself. But I don’t believe in Putin. Would I prefer him to my prime minister (who has no problem with photo ops that include Nazis like Andriy Parubiy)? Absolutely. And sane Americans would no doubt prefer him to swamp muck with orange weeds on top that they suffer under at present. Still, It’s all relative.
LOL.
“Russia Today” says crazy things like “the imminent collapse of the US dollar will push gold to 10,000”
You must be nuts.
If Putin had the high ground, why does he need so much disinformation, propaganda, fake news, and (apparently) assassination?
Usually people with the (moral) high ground, don’t have to lie, cheat, and steal.
I mean – Gandhi had the moral high ground.
What did he do?
He made honest moral arguments.
Wasn’t Putin’s latest “moral” missive to America a video of a nuclear weapon hitting Florida?
Are threats of mass murder what passes for the “moral high ground” in these parts?
I’d hate to hear what you think the moral “low ground” is.
Bobby
We all know you are a very great man of distinction, a true Democrat and probably a true Christian. All of those things are admirable like a woman speaking truth to power in Afghanistan which is now going to let the Taliban have seats in government. One step forward, ten steps back.
Trouble is I don’t agree with Craig’s statement : ” and battles are over hard resources, whichever “side” you are on.”. The US is now self-sufficient in oil, and it would be even more self-sufficient if it stopped glorifying monstour vehicle sizes, while its citizens want nice little EU and Japanese vehicles. ” My nuclear button is bigger than your nuclear button.” Oh dear.
The ” moral high ground ” in the Gospels was not occupied by the rabbis who like to be seen in fine clothing, but who were consuming the wealth of the widows. The moral high ground is occupied by the believer who does his/her ablutions and bows his/her head to worship God.
30 years of continuous war against Muslims has not been justified by either acquisition of resources nor the size of US global influence. Somehow the predecessors to Christianity have persuaded the incumbents of Christianity to attack the owners of the key to heaven , which they themselves ” neither let anyone else enter into , nor entered into themselves”.
OK, so the only thing the US understands is size, so Putin has to make bigger and better weapons. Jesus wept , peace be upon him, we are back in the Trump solution to school massacres. The kids would’ve been safe if there had been more and bigger weapons on site.
No. Human beings are inherently social and co-operative creatures, who are capable of understanding that sharing makes finite resources go further than individuals hoarding. They are also capable of understanding the concept of peace. The only thing that can unite them is the belief in and subjection of their own selves to the will of and thus worship of God.
You cannot force people to practise their religion by the use of terror. Not if you are Al Qaida, not if you are Salafi, not if you are Putin, not if you are the US. One day the child that is educated in a school protected by remote controlled machine guns, will turn up in a tank and raze the whole school to the ground.
The mental hospital is being run by the patients. 30 years of destroying and attacking the people who have the answers, means you have to go back and get an even bigger, badder, more bastardly set of nukes than Putin. Putin your memory box please this is not the way forward.
@ Bob Apposite March 6, 2018 at 21:52
Both Putin and Ghandi, if they asked for even just one example of a ‘False Flag’ and were offerwed 53, would probably have put their hands up and accepted they were wrong, gracefully. Unlike your good self.
“If Putin had the high ground, why does he need so much disinformation, propaganda, fake news, and (apparently) assassination?”
It’s clearly you who needs those things.bubs.
Ha ha, Luke Harding, Steven Morris and Kevin Rawlinson in the Guardian:
“Whether or not the Kremlin’s fingerprints are found, the Skripal case is likely to be seen as a warning to Russian operatives of the dangers of working with MI6 or the CIA.”
MI6 yes, but not the CIA. The British secret service can’t protect its sources. Ner ner ni ner ner!
Orders of the brown tongue all round!
Disinformation specialist Luke Harding already out with the propaganda.
Luke Harding is one of these bright young things that is so obviously a spook, or working for the spooks, that you wonder if he failed his basic training. You know, the part where you are meant to have a cunning disguise; what a dolt. Our media is infested with these disinfo trolls, it’s almost as bad as the US. Which is why I just don’t bother anymore. I read the Sports section, and some wild ‘conspiracy’ theories on the internet. I’m training myself to avoid all the MSM, though it’s hard: they have full spectrum dominance, and are good at getting in your face.
And I’m not for hating the Russians. Mr Murray is not a fan of Putin, which is fair enough, but the Russians are ok. It’s the weirdo transhumanist pedo freaks we need to be wary off, the Russkies are alright.
Luke Harding and bright don’t go together. Did you watch this humiliating interview?
http://theduran.com/interview-exposes-russia-hating-journalist-luke-harding-video/
The Moscow-approved line is “UK can’t protect its sources”. not, “Moscow murders people with war gases in public spaces abroad”, obviously.
I think the Trump Criminal gang is more afraid of Pooties Polonium Umbrella than they are of SuperMax isolation
100% false flag assisted by 90% proof Smirnoff
Cobra ‘ll probably die of laughing
When I first read this story I thought – take the nationality and the occupation of Mr Skirpal out of the story – and what would you think happened?
My answer was: that two people scored some drugs – “ Spice “ the fake synthetic cannabis and are suffering the side affects. If you read the symptoms they correspond with the side affects of “Spice”.
I don’t think it was a hit at all. He was let go – lived openly and quietly for years.
There is no benefit to the Russians in doing this – and they are not stupid.
The UK government and the media are making a meal of it and it just confirms the sickening Russophobia. No investigation has taken place
It acts as a big distraction from Brexit and the awful Saudi Arabia visit this week
The police need to find the blond woman ( the daughter has read hair) in the CCTV film in the shopping centre – she will know what happened and is probably scared with all the media hype on this story.
Witnessed some ex-army Tory MP on C4 news last night deriding Russian military capabilities relative to the UK’s. He cut through all this latest bullshit and fast-forwarded to the logical conclusion of all the demonization and baiting of Russia. He was represented by Jon Snow as a voice of considered reason.
Unspoken during this were the underwhelming achievements of Britain’s last military adventures in Basra and Helmand, debacles that occurred before the swinging cuts of the last decade. In the midst of the chest thumping, the Tory MP issued the tired, obligatory lion’s roar of ‘Do they know who we are?’
Sadly they are all too well aware.
Carl-I understand from a news report that the wonderful F-35 actually landed on a carrier recently. So we have no problems on the military hardware front, obviously.
As did John McCain,promptly setting fire to it and killing a large number of seamen
Sorry McCain was waiting for take-off and accidentally discharged a rocket
He couldn’t have read the Indy or most other newspapers on the 22nd January 2017:
‘British Army’s last fighting unit could be wiped out ‘in an afternoon’ by Russia’:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/british-army-russia-putin-budget-cuts-experts-warn-could-be-destroyed-afternoon-a7539971.html
You couldn’t make this stuff up.
And to add to that state agencies will do whatever is required to achieve the target – murder of one or millions.
Ruth Beaurifully put
thanks
Surely by now Porton Down must know what the substance ingested /inhaled/administered to Skripal and his daughter is?
@ SA March 7, 2018 at 09:41
They’ve got an idea, but they called in Inspector Clouseau for a second opinion, and he got on a plane to Moscow by mistake.
Oh, no, those pesky Russkis at it again! No, not poisoning people on our streets this time, but trying to keep Americans healthy!
‘Russia Blamed For Anti-GMO Campaign and Pushing American Gun Rights’:
https://www.activistpost.com/2018/03/russia-anti-gmo-gun-rights.html?
‘…So what is the team’s unquestionable research that determined this incredible outcome; is it a leaked Russian memo or double agent leaking this incredible information?
No, none of the above; this Scooby-Doo investigation team used simple statistics from RT and Sputnik news sites funded by the Russian government to come to this ridiculous conclusion.
Like Zoinks! Instead, the report stated that more articles from RT and Sputnik contained the word “GMO” than five other news organizations combined — those being Huffington Post, Fox News, CNN, Breitbart News and MSNBC.
Further, these wondrous cyber sleuths found that RT accounted for 34 percent of GMO-related articles among the seven sites, and Sputnik articles made up 19 percent.
So that’s it — they determined that Russia, a country that bans GMOs along with three dozen other countries, is trying to influence America’s opinion on GMOs by publishing news articles against GMOs … which is a right for journalists at RT and Sputnik under the First Amendment, the right to a free press, as well as a right for citizens to receive information…’
I think even Americans will see through that one.
I am looking forward to William Dunkerley’s analysis. Remember his researches into Litvinenko and his links with the dodgy Berezovsky, as referred to at the end of this article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/05/litvinenko-report-get-it-wrong-putin
Day two of spygate, and the British slabbering propaganda machine has gone into overdrive, everthing Russian is neferious, nasty and not to be trusted.
I’m beginning to wonder if spygate is not quite what it seems, and for it to be used as a precursor (as in Iraq and the invisible WMD’s) to physical hostilities between the west and Russia.
Of course some sort of wrongdoing is required by Westminster to get the public onside, and turn heads away from the fact that Britain is in meltdown, NHS, Brexit incompetent governing etc.
Those who experienced the 2014 Scottish indyref, will know full well, how the British propaganda machine works having seen it in action.
O/T.
Meanwhile, according to LBC, there are billboards and mobile billboards, running around London today with huge adverts (who’s paying for them I wonder?) on them welcoming a Saudi prince who’s due to visit London soon.
Anyway in the eyes of the British government, this prince is seen as a reformer of the brutal Middle East regime. Why do they think that? Well apparently he’s allowing women to drive, previously they couldn’t.
Saudi Arabia which executes all manner of folk from the region by chopping off their heads sometimes publicly, owns huge swathes of London (bear in mind so does some of Putin’s rich Russian friends) and buys billions of pounds worth of British weapons, will never be seen in the same light as say Assad or the Iraninan ayatollahs, simply because they spend so much, and invest in British produce.
British products are very popular abroad.
https://www.edinburghchamber.co.uk/news/international-consumers-prepared-to-pay-up-to-22-more-for-british-goods/
Makes you proud to be British doesn’t it?
Scottish fayre and Whisky are very popular abroad, adding a Union Jack to Scottish exports doesn’t make them British.
It seems, no it is, a ongoing propaganda war here in Scotland to add a butchers apron to all Scottish products.
Scottish products are British and if advertising them as such helps exports and provides more profits for Scottish firms and jobs for Scottish workers I’m all for it.
Don’t you think the Nationalist obsession with flags is somewhat unhealthy?
“Don’t you think the Nationalist obsession with flags is somewhat unhealthy?”
Go preach your mantra in NI, where the British fleg is seen as the be all and end all.
Fred
More union jacks, more union jacks everywhere! On produce. In the streets. In magazines. Abounding. We want more union jacks please!
And anyone who objects is a nationalist obsessed with flags.
I’m sure if a group of people in England were protesting against the Union Flag being used on English produce and insisting the George Cross be used instead “obsessed” would be one of the milder terms used to describe them.
It’s interesting to see the Russophobes in full swing in here decrying Putin and Russia. However do these people ever stop and think for a moment as to why Putin has remained in power for so long.
The simple version is that their own western governments hostilies towards Russia over the decades sanctions, threats, weapons encroachments, has led to the Russian people voting for someone (not ideal by any means) who’ll defend them from what is basically a form of western aggression.
It is very debatable whether Putin would even be running for another term if the wests aggression towards Russia had not been implemented.
The very basic answer of as to why Putin remains popular in Russia, and as to why he’s still in power, and will be for the foreseeable future is your government by its aggressive action sanctions etc, has put him there.
@Republicofscotland
You talk about stopping and thinking for a moment. What possible reasons for Putin’s popularity did you consider other than the aggressive stance taken by the US and its satellites?
Well western aggression has in my opinion helped Putin consolidate his power. Take Turkey for example, after the attempted coup Erdogan has seen very little opposition to his stronger grip on power.
I do believe Putin would not be in power now and hold such a sway over the nation, if the west hadn’t continued to undermine Russia, in my opinion Russia would be a very different beast if we had welcomed the Russian people into European set up, rather than viewed them with suspicion and mistrust.
What’s Yulia Skripal’s job?
*wink*
O/T.
British government to block transparency over DUP funds and donations. Something Putin would do I think.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/07/tories-seek-to-block-move-to-reveal-donations-to-dup-in-eu-referendum?CMP=share_btn_tw
Ros
The Constitutional Research Council. The adjective shadowy could have been invented for them.
Just announced and conveniently timed to brainwash the masses “NORTH KOREA NORTH KOREA used chemical warfare agent VX to assassinate the half-brother of Kim Jong-un in Malaysia in 2017, the US State Department has declared. Surprise surprise.
You all know that Sergey Skripal is listed at 192.com.
Take a look at the guy Vladimir Gorkov, listed as living with Ana Skripal. Could he be related to the big-bollocks banker Sergei Gorkov who famously met Jared Kushner at Trump Tower?
Good to hear you still got blood flowing through your veins to speak out on this ‘safe’ story, Craig. Everything about this attack stinks, especially the instant cacophony in parliament by our little emperors.
After Gavin W.’s fiery talking in Washington last week, vouching for us to join the war with Russia, China and North Korea, wanting to divert monies from healthcare, NHS and care provisions in general to build up the military assets and wage bill in the UK, and after Putin’s nuclear missile wand was waved about like a stick some days back, we now have a new calamity which is straight away being sold as very likely to be Russian aggression.
How come?
Oddly our right wing MP’s incl. the foreign secretary were hammering out hardly disguised accusatory comments whilst the police was still gathering facts investigating.
Question is, what did they know beforehand? was this attack known to happen?
In whose interest is it, at this point of abject failure for our ‘moderate’ terrorists in Syria, to conveniently provide us with a stick/ propaganda to beat Russia with?
Whoever attacked SKripal knew that the Russians would not cry much for him, and that we would blow this up into a massive story, again.
The connection with Syria is interesting. The SAA and the Russians meanwhile have liberated about 45% of Eastern Ghouta and will probably liberate the rest in a week or two given this rate of progress. The terrorists were even offered safe passage out but did not accept. Meanwhile all the armchair generals on the BBC seem to have either ignored what Putin had to say about new weapon systems and are deliberately ignoring the implications.
If they do not accept free passage SA, then Assad should keep them to their words. This time they will not get bus rides out of the chaos they created, mind ISIS upper echelons will always manage to flee to the Golan safe havens.
Or to Turkey or Jordan or even Europe.
Countries with WMD will not be attacked by the US, they would wait until they relinquish thier WMD before attacking.
Currently not trending in the UK, as our media are still in parochial mode:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/donald-trump-may-be-drawn-into-double-agent-sergei-skripals-poisoning/news-story/c957a3f33b1c2785a7e2ac5d46f82b59
Anthony Glees, director of the Centre for Security and Intelligence Studies at the University of Buckingham, told The Telegraph: “What we know is that Steele was our man in Russia, that he was extremely good. We know that what MI6 does is gain intelligence from human agents. You put all these things together, it is clear that either directly or indirectly Sergei Skripal would have been known to Christopher Steele.’’
Mr Steele was in Moscow in the early 1990s when Mr Skripal was passing information to MI6.
Can of worms or what?
Perhaps. The Washington Examiner seems to have thought it was Skripal’s partner who fell ill with him and not his daughter. Whatever has actually happened and who is involved seems a bit sketchy at the moment.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sergei-skripal-a-former-russian-spy-may-have-just-been-attacked-in-britain/article/2650721
One fact that I do know is that BBC News presenter Dan Walker said yesterday morning amidst all the Litvinenko parallel speculation that this was a story that looked like it was a story that was not going to go away soon. He looked at Louise Minchin. Remarkably both of them kept straight faces. 🙂
Oh yes Glees. The terrrrrr expert. Friend of Geoffrey Alderman. From that reputable ‘private’ university. See the second comment.
https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/12/470628.html?c=on
Absolute bollocks – the Gulag did not close down after 1945.
Still absolute bollocks
I agree with your first sentence and I can confirm that I have some bollocks – fortunately they are in the right place attached to my body and not put down in writing.
This is the kind of attitude that entrenches the Russian people. Though it should expected from a ex-CIA operative unfortunately.
https://mobile.twitter.com/john_sipher/status/971003146570027008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw