Condemned By Their Own Words 218

This transcript of an Israeli General on an Israeli radio station (begins 6.52 in) defending the latest killing by Israeli army snipers of a 14 year old boy who posed no threat of any kind, is much more powerful if you just read it than any analysis I can give.

Brigadier-General (Res.) Zvika Fogel interviewed on the Yoman Hashevua program of Israel’s Kan radio, 21 April 2018.

Ron Nesiel: Greetings Brigadier General (Res.) Zvika Fogel. Should the IDF [Israeli army] rethink its use of snipers? There’s the impression that maybe someone lowered the bar for using live fire, and this may be the result?

Zvika Fogel: Ron, let’s maybe look at this matter on three levels. At the tactical level that we all love dealing with, the local one, also at the level of values, and with your permission, we will also rise up to the strategic level. At the tactical level, any person who gets close to the fence, anyone who could be a future threat to the border of the State of Israel and its residents, should bear a price for that violation. If this child or anyone else gets close to the fence in order to hide an explosive device or check if there are any dead zones there or to cut the fence so someone could infiltrate the territory of the State of Israel to kill us …

Nesiel: Then, then his punishment is death?

Fogel: His punishment is death. As far as I’m concerned then yes, if you can only shoot him to stop him, in the leg or arm – great. But if it’s more than that then, yes, you want to check with me whose blood is thicker, ours or theirs. It is clear to you that if one such person will manage to cross the fence or hide an explosive device there …

Nesiel: But we were taught that live fire is only used when the soldiers face immediate danger.

Fogel: Come, let’s move over to the level of values. Assuming that we understood the tactical level, as we cannot tolerate a crossing of our border or a violation of our border, let’s proceed to the level of values. I am not Ahmad Tibi, I am Zvika Fogel. I know how these orders are given. I know how a sniper does the shooting. I know how many authorizations he needs before he receives an authorization to open fire. It is not the whim of one or the other sniper who identifies the small body of a child now and decides he’ll shoot. Someone marks the target for him very well and tells him exactly why one has to shoot and what the threat is from that individual. And to my great sorrow, sometimes when you shoot at a small body and you intended to hit his arm or shoulder it goes even higher. The picture is not a pretty picture. But if that’s the price that we have to pay to preserve the safety and quality of life of the residents of the State of Israel, then that’s the price. But now, with your permission, let us go up one level and look at the overview. It is clear to you that Hamas is fighting for consciousness at the moment. It is clear to you and to me …

Nesiel: Is it hard for them to do? Aren’t we providing them with sufficient ammunition in this battle?

Fogel: We’re providing them but …

Nesiel: Because it does not do all that well for us, those pictures that are distributed around the world.

Fogel: Look, Ron, we’re even terrible at it. There’s nothing to be done, David always looks better against Goliath. And in this case, we are the Goliath. Not the David. That is entirely clear to me. But let’s look at it at the strategic level: you and I and a large part of the listeners are clear that this will not end up in demonstrations. It is clear to us that Hamas can’t continue to tolerate the fact that its rockets are not managing to hurt us, its tunnels are eroding …

Nesiel: Yes.

Fogel: And it doesn’t have too many suicide bombers who continue to believe the fairytale about the virgins waiting up there. It will drag us into a war. I do not want to be on the side that gets dragged. I want to be on the side that initiates things. I do not want to wait for the moment where it finds a weak spot and attacks me there. If tomorrow morning it gets into a military base or a kibbutz and kills people there and takes prisoners of war or hostages, call it as you like, we’re in a whole new script. I want the leaders of Hamas to wake up tomorrow morning and for the last time in their life see the smiling faces of the IDF. That’s what I want to have happen. But we are dragged along. So we’re putting snipers up because we want to preserve the values we were educated by. We can’t always take a single picture and put it before the whole world. We have soldiers there, our children, who were sent out and receive very accurate instructions about whom to shoot to protect us. Let’s back them up.

Nesiel: Brigadier-General (Res.) Zvika Fogel, formerly Head of the Southern Command Staff, thank you for your words.

Fogel: May you only hear good news. Thank you.

There is no room to doubt the evil nature of the expansionist apartheid state that Israel has now become. Nor the moral vacuity of its apologists in the western media.

Translation by Dena Shunra.


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218 thoughts on “Condemned By Their Own Words

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  • Bunkum

    Thursday should be interesting at the OPCW

    Russia has witnesses to ‘unmask unforgivable lies’ over alleged chemical attack in Syria

    Russia plans to bring healthy people from Syria to the Hague this week who were allegedly “dying” in a video taken shortly after a suspected chemical attack.

    In an exclusive interview with ITV News, the Russian Ambassador to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said Russia aims to “unmask” what it says are “unforgivable lies” over the alleged incident.

    He said Russia will bring 17 Syrians from Douma – the site of the alleged attack – seven of whom are “perfectly identifiable as dying people” in a video by the White Helmets rescue worker group.
    The video purported to show people suffering from a chemical weapons attack, allegedly launched by the Syrian regime – the Russians claim it is a fake video.

    Ambassador Alexander Shulgin said each of the seven will be able to point to themselves in the video, at a “special briefing” at the OPCW headquarters.

    The attack in Douma, which allegedly killed as many as 75 men, women and children, triggered retaliatory strikes by the US, UK and France against some of the Syrian regime’s chemical facilities.
    Last updated Tue 24 Apr 2018

  • Tony_0pmoc

    I find this entire subject completely disgusting, and no I am not going to watch invaders, slaughtering innocent people on their own land, especially when they think they own the place and the British, American and French Governments too.

    Whilst I don’t blame him for asking for donations, I am not going to join the equivalent of a 1970’s record club, when you get the first 2 records free. I don’t mind sending Craig Murray the occasional tenner, when he is brilliant (as recently), but sometimes I think he is crap. I often disagree with his political views, but I think its highly unlikely, that he is going to send me my £2 a month back, when I do.

    I might actually buy a Roger Water’s latest album or send a tenner to Off-Guardian instead.

    “Barcelona, Roger Waters, White Helmets”

    I have no real idea of what this bloke’s political views are. He may well be a cnt too, but for once I like the headlines in The Daily Telegraph. At least unlike Theresa May, he is not either a brainwashed liar or a total cretin. He actually shows some signs of intelligence.

    “Theresa May lacks ‘enthusiasm’ for Brexit and her plans for a customs partnership are ‘completely cretinous’ says Jacob Rees-Mogg ”

    “Theresa May lacks “enthusiasm” for Brexit, Jacob Rees Mogg has said, as he accused the Prime Minister of a “betrayal of good sense” over her “cretinous” plans for a customs partnership with the European Union.

    The leading Eurosceptic Tory MP also warned that staying in the partnership would mean a return of duty free trade on cross-channel ferriescould not happen because the UK would effectively still be in the customs union.

    Mr Rees-Mogg also said that peers are “playing with fire” by passing amendments which he said were attempts to overturn Brexit.”

    Have a nice day. I am not impressed.


      • Tony_0pmoc

        Peter N,

        I am well aware of Roger Waters political views, which are very similar to mine. I saw Pink Floyd twice in the 1980’s – once at Earls Court in London and once at Manchester City’s Football Club, which is the only adult gig, in The UK, I have ever been to where there was no alcohol on sale. I think he had left Pink Floyd by then, and he probably didn’t write the following, though he did write almost all of some of Pink Floyd’s best albums.

        “The Dogs Of War”


  • Republicofscotland

    Less than a week ago Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn paid tribute to outgoing Welsh FM Carwyn Jones, saying he’d brought more equality to the Welsh people.

    Today the outgoing Welsh FM just capitulated to Westminster on the EU Withdrawal bill, by finally agreeing a deal, which in essence will see a Westminster power grab of powers coming back from the EU, going to Westminster instead of Wales.

    The Scottish government is holding fast for a better deal for the people of Scotland.

    • reel guid


      It was inevitable there would be a Labour cave in on the power grab. They are a British obsessed party first, last and everything in between. We’ll see if the Holyrood Labour folk are made of sterner stuff than Carwyn Jones. But I doubt it. Especially since the Labour Presiding Officer didn’t even think the Continuity Bill was legal.

  • Macky

    Israel effectively mutes any criticism of its crimes, by smearing all critics as “anti Semites”, and unwittedly aided by its critics who insist on labelling supporters of Israel as “Zionists”, a meaningless redundant term as Zion was realized when the State of Israel came into being, and a hypocritical label as most of the critics also acknowledge that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people.

    You need to correctly call-out the real dynamic at work in generated such influence & support for everything Israel does, namely a very large Lobby, comprised of mostly, but by no means all of course, of chauvinistic supremacist racists.

    Gilad Atzmon has always been right about this.

  • Jones

    UK government lack of condemnation for the Saudi bombing of the wedding party in Yemen while sycophants fawn over the royals new baby reminds me of the 1894 Keir Hardie speech when he condemned the house of commons for not acknowledging the death of over 250 miners in a horrifying pit disaster as they were too busy congratulating the royals on their new baby, it seems the tories priorities have changed little.

    • Dennis Revell


      So you’ve been collecting the UK state pension for how long? 😉

      Joking aside, it’d be interesting to know who (still amongst the living) has been collecting/eligible to collect the UK State Pension for the longest period of time, and how old they are now. Also when the last State Pensioner who was eligible to pick up a pension on the first day it was implemented died?

      I’d like to congratulate the former person on extracting the greatest sum possible from the establishment; money that is not spent on Weapons of Mass Destruction, including nukes. Bravo! Live Long and Prosper! As may they all.


  • APOL

    Many thanks to Craig Murray for covering this major story/atrocity.
    It is noticeable and a pity that, the duran, which originally looked like a good alternative news and analysis source, keeps strictly away from this ongoing event.
    How come one wonders?
    Who funds them, anybody know?

    • Tony_0pmoc

      APOL, From memory, the Duran is run by an ex-London based Russian Lawyer, who has a chequred past. I can’t remember his name, nor the details (which I think he admitted), however, I have read some good articles on there, some of which were written by him.

      • Salford Lad

        I believe it is Alexander Mercouris, who indeed writes some good stuff, but may have a blind spot on Yemen for some strange reason.

  • Ihsan

    Under the watchful eyes of the whole world the idf committing murders and atrocities against and destroying a whole people, their land , their historic rights and their culture and robbing them from their basic human right to live in peace in their rightful land
    When will the world will open their eyes and see that Israel an apartheid racist state full of murders . Wake up people !

  • shugsrug

    Easily one of the most interesting and informative blogs. Some great contributors, who know their stuff, as does Craig. Happy to subscribe.

  • Puking fainter

    A curious parallel, David and Goliath have appeared on an advertising board on my street, something about “celebrate the death of your enemies with a lucozade” or similar. It also says “we drink it, they can drink it too” or something, will take a closer look when day breaks. Certainly seemed more sinister than old john barnes with his isotonic nonsense.
    And two unrelated questions, what paint do graffiti artists use?
    And is “vandal” illegal speech as it denigrates an entire racial group?

  • Chain Break

    Subscribe folks!

    Else this may not be here this time next year due to Craig not being able to afford to run it. Funds don’t magically appear…. (unless you are the Tories of course with a DUP Magic Money Tree).

    Happy to subscribe and hope this site continues as a thorn in the side of the establishment, criminals as they often are, we need to hold them to account. It’d be a dark day indeed if this site ever went down.

  • Mochyn69

    Meanwhile JC is still not doing enough to satisfy the Jewish Leadership Council (JLC) and Board of Deputies (BoD) to combat anti-semitism.

    Frankly, not least of all for the reasons stated in Counsel’s opinion on the IHRA definition, I would not be content to accept the preconditions stated by the JLC and the BoD either, with the greatest of respect to them.


    • SA

      I would resign from the party if it becomes answerable to an outside organisation as this is against democracy.

  • anon,

    Coldblooded anaesthetisation of child-killing by a legalistic pharisaic culture… as hannah arendt said, its the banality of evil that makes it possible… atleast now there is legal evidence of command responsibility that goes all the way through and to the top of israeli society…

    Here is another child of war (yemen) that hasnt turned up the mainstream media front pages left… share it, in case they bury it.,,,
    crossposted from the saker…

    ‘ Anonymous on April 24, 2018 · at 2:38 pm UTC
    this what a real child grieving a parents loss in a senseless slaughter looks like…. compare it to the WhiteHelmets hollywood productions…

    the saudis slaughtered a yemeni wedding party (with us/uk weapons probably).. this looks like a child refusing to accept his father has been killed and refusing to let go of his body, crying no,no,no

    (crossposted from consortiumnews)


    Anonymous on April 24, 2018 · at 2:47 pm UTC
    from the RT article

    ‘ People on the ground told Ruptly the boy insisted his killed father was just sleeping, and would soon wake up and take him to their home village not far from the one that was bombed.

    He most probably remained there for hours, judging by how some of the images were taken at night and some in the morning. A Ruptly cameraman said the father’s body was the last one to be removed from the scene, and the boy stayed with it until the very end.’

    as the article says this child probably wont make it to the msm front pages… children from places like gaza and yemen never do…

  • SA

    Excellent idea to have an independent ombudsman to tackle racism provided:
    1. It includes all political parties.
    2. It includes all racism.
    3. It is answerable to an independent body and not to any particular organisation.

    What is there not to like?

  • Wellwisher

    [Mod: Habbabkuk’s sixth identified sock puppet in less than a month. Sad.]

    Content deleted.

    • Mochyn69

      Thanks for posting, and absolutely well said Len.

      I am not a Labourite by any means, but the constant smearing by a rag-tag clique of malcontents of a principled, if not always right, honourable man, which is such a rarity in UK politics today, is grossly offensive.


  • Tatyana

    Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said “Russia poses greater challenge than insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan”. What do you think really poses greater challenge?
    – Russia
    – ISIS terrorists
    – Reckless talk by DefSec

  • Yuval

    I don’t know, Israel’s policy as described in this article sounds really reasonable to me. They don’t shoot people just like this, they wait for authorization, they wait for explanation why the person is a threat, and only then shoot. Even when they shoot, they aim to the legs, not to kill, that’s what he says. That sounds completely reasonable. Do you have another idea of how Israel can defend itself with hurting as much little citizens as possible?

    • Mark r

      You are right, if reaching the fence is a danger to israel then they hve to shoot. If the boy wasnt shot he would be a living hero and more will follow. The palestinians dont have a choice either. They hold elections, accepted israel, prevented rockets attacks, made a deal with the israeli puppet abbas, etc. but the people were left to rot.
      If israel doesnt want any future for the palistinians and as long as the western people support this, this will not change. So send in more children, babys and women to the fence, to be shot by this brainless general, the western audience wil react, at some point and between some anti semitism boggus story. There is no alternative left anymore.

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