There Is Another England 1079

Given the centuries of economic exploitation, political domination and depopulation, I perfectly understand why many Scots support any team at the World Cup which is playing England. But, with an English mother and two English grandparents who largely brought me up, I do not feel that way and I raised a glass at Harry Kane’s late winner. Let me tell you why.

My grandfather Henry was a lifelong socialist who had no illusions about the British Empire and its role in the World. Yet he was also a patriotic Englishman whose life, like so many of his generation, was largely defined by the struggle against Nazism, in which his only son had been killed. That focus on the Second World War partly explained his fondness for the Soviet Union, in discussing the abuses of which he would always remark “But you have to consider what came before. Given where they started, they are making progress”. He would recite “A man’s a man for a’that” to me as a small child and explain its meaning. Yet Henry would fly his St George’s flag proudly when occasion warranted it. I do not therefore automatically associate that flag with UKIP or with Essex man.

Because there is another England, that from which Henry sprang, the England documented lovingly by E P Thomson and vividly recorded by Robert Tressell, the England of William Hazlitt, Mary Wollstonecraft, the Putney debates and Thomas Paine. Michael Foot embodied the inherited wisdom of that tradition and it has re-emerged with unexpected vigour in the shape of Jeremy Corbyn, a man whose attraction lies in the very fact he encapsulates notions of basic decency that the English political elite had attempted to cast off.

I regard Scottish Independence as part of the continuing process of decolonisation. Ireland’s population will in the next decade overtake Scotland’s for the first time in centuries, and as of today Ireland’s GDP per capita stands 25% higher. Scotland can never achieve its potential without first achieving its Independence. But we can do that without wishing ill to our neighbours; some of them are quite nice.

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1,079 thoughts on “There Is Another England

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  • Vivian O'Blivion

    Private eye reporting that the House of Lords Appointments Commission blocked two of Treeza’s nominees for the upper house last month. One Tory and one from the DUP. Jeezus, they passed “boxcar” Willie McCrea as fit. Who the fuck was she nominating, Jonnie Adair?

    • Courtenay Barnett


      If I recall correctly in 2003 the UN weapons inspectors did not find WMDS and the US/UK attacked Iraq; now, you are saying that these same powers are seeking a ‘reason route’ through the UN to justify attacks.

      Seems that either way the US/UK just use their powers regardless – only difference is that they may wear a slightly different face mask to hide the use of unlawful force.

      • SA

        Interestingly bj
        The Atomic weapons inspectorate at the time was fiercely independent under al Baradei who was consequently much disliked by the ‘allies’. The previous OPCW head was chased out by the US to put in place the current more compliant Turk.

      • Tatyana

        Now I guess why there were no reports on Douma chemical attack. They were waiting for this decision and now we will get it, together with blaming Assad

        • bj

          Could very well be.

          A “strange and silly” situation that would be.

          The OPCW declares Syria to be compliant, yet (implicitly) declares it to be non-compliant, if and when accusing it of using chemical weapons (that are covered by the treaty). The OPCW finding itself wanting. Now there’s some blowback.

        • Jack

          Why do western nations, media want to bomb and kill and start wars after wars all the time? What is this lunacy?

          • bj

            Follow the money.

            The war industry is a mega-billion dollar industry. These days it is the Military-Industrial-Intelligence-Complex.
            That’s where all your taxes go. It is socialism for the rich.

            That’s where geopolitical plans and decisions are made.

            All these weapons want to be used and tested.
            What if they don’t work, and wars aren’t being won? Will funding for Raytheon be slashed?
            Hell no. It will get more to do a better job.
            The double profit is almost built in.

            There is no pushback. They’re the ones in power.
            Greed and profit for a happy few. What’ not to like.

      • Herbie

        “The OPCW has been co-opted, and is dead.”

        You can’t have independent bodies getting in the way of your false flag scams.

    • Herbie

      It was under Major that the Numbers Racket was made legit, wasn’t it.

      Then came the mass porn, vice and trafficking. Mass gambling. Mass sports. Mass media.

      All starts with the liberalisation of Banking in the late 80s.

      Our economy is simply a gangster operation.

      That’s all they’re good for.

    • IrishU

      Probably all part of an Israeli ploy, eh? Why else would it be worth noting his visits to the Middle East. That is before we discuss the Camelot connection. Probably using Camelot to launder Mossad’s black money or some such…

  • Deb O'Nair

    Where is the Dissident in Chief? I need regular amounts of dissent otherwise I begin to start believing what politicians, news-readers and rent-a-gob journalists and media pundits tell me to believe. Anyone see Jon Snow on C4 News taking a hit on a bong? What a flake.

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Deb O’Nair June 27, 2018 at 23:39
      Bongs are no joke! That charcoal is deadly. (Ex-hippy trail overland to India 1967).

  • N_

    I’m English and I hope England gets knocked out of the World Cup as soon as possible. I can tell you that the sight of a lot of racist yobs on the streets with their emotions turned up because of nationalist sporting crap on the television is not pretty. If England get knocked out, there will be an increase in racist attacks on that day, but if they win the competition the boost to racist hatred would be longer-lasting.

    • Kerch'ee Kerch'ee Coup

      Here in Korea, theGermany -Korea match was on TV very late at night , so excitement has not really built up the wy it did in 2002 whwn mssive crowds gathered. Of course, Korean nationalism and chauvinism still have goals to work for, whereas English nationalism’s sun along with The Sun has long set in terms of objectiv

    • Sharp Ears

      Apparently the effect of all that boozing leads to an increase in domestic violence, so pity the wives and partners.

      ITV have the England Belgium match. 3 hours of it – 18.15 -21.15!

      BBC South have just said that there will be an increased police presence tonight in many large towns in the region. Lovely. But don’t expect a police response these days to a burglary.

    • Ian

      What a miserable bunch. Most people are thoroughly enjoying the tournament, seeing a different Russia to the one they are used to in the media, and revelling in the contributions of fans from Peru, Colombia, and all over. I take it there is nothing you can enjoy thanks to your worldview.

      • Paul Barbara

        @ Ian June 28, 2018 at 19:28
        Football leaves me cold; but I did get a free pint in a Fullers pub when Senegal played. Whilst I didn’t see the end, I am very upset Colombia won, as their government are Luciferian a**holes, totally in the pockets of the ‘Great Satan’ (they are even in , or getting into, NATO): ‘Colombia to be NATO’s first Latin American global partner’:
        Comes in handy for the Yanks, in their machinations against Venezuela, holder of the world’s biggest oil reserves (albeit heavy dirty oil).
        I’ll try to watch the next Colombia match, and screw them up. (Those who have ears to hear, etc.).

  • N_

    The Times reports that “Prince William and Eurovision showgirl see sights of old Tel Aviv.

    Old what? There is no “old” Tel Aviv. Tel Aviv was founded by foreign racist settlers from Europe in 1909.

    The old place is Jaffa. Jaffa had been a town for at least 4000 years before the said racist settlers forcibly expelled most of its population in 1948.

    The “showgirl” in question (I’d call her a singer) is Netta, famous for winning the Eurovision song contest with a song that contains the line “You stupid boy”. The stupid goy is of course a J__ish stereotype, as a quick search at Google Books will confirm.

    Seems that “Prince William” fits Netta’s bill to a tee! Did she slap a sign on his back saying “Stupid Boy”?

    Meanwhile, why doesn’t the Palestinian Authority set up a Nakba Memorial Centre?

  • SA

    A propos thread on war and the military industrial complex earlier on this page. The U.K., not officially at war with anyone is directly involved in wars in Syria, Yemen and Afghanistan and counterinsurgency in Migeria and god knows where else. It has a base in Bahrain and supplies weapons to countries in conflicts in which many civilians are targeted. Our MOD now wants a huge cash injection to cope with all these activities and ‘threats’.
    Much of this has been done in our name but without much open discussion by a government first propped up by the Lib Dems and more recently by the DUP. And this is supposed to be a democracy?

    • Paul Barbara

      @ SA June 28, 2018 at 02:12
      British troops have been in action every day since the first day of WWI (see ‘History Thieves’, Ian Cobain).
      And, oddly enough, more times than not on the ‘Wrong’ side (‘frinstance, SAS training Pol Pot’s a**holes after they got turfed out of Cambodia. SAS sent in to train Pol Pot’s a**holes by none other than the ‘Milk Snatcher’.
      She who wasn’t for ‘turning’; she who just adored Pinochet (and any other c*nt with blood on their hands).
      ‘It’ (Thatcher) now knows ‘it’ backed the wrong ‘God’.

  • Sharp Ears

    BBC1 is running with the mental health of university students. They have Hugh Brady on. He is the vice chancellor of Bristol University. Very earnest. I should think the large financial burdens the students have to acquire contribute to their unease.

    Brady’s own financial health is excellent. ‘Bristol’s vice-chancellor, Hugh Brady, who earns £323,000 a year, hired a suit using his expenses account and claimed £4,400 for business lunches’.
    University vice chancellors claim luxury holidays, cake and bottled water on expenses
    One university head claimed almost £2,000 for nights spent at five-star hotels in Singapore and Hong Kong
    11 January 2017

    Student mental health support must improve, universities told

    • giyane

      I caught a snippet Radio 4’s Women’s Hour about HMG encarcerating women. The interviewee said it was much harder work having to attend a Womens Centre and try to get their lives on track out of prison, learning to budget, dealing with dependency etc. Much harder work and much closer to humanity.

    • Anon1

      80% of students at university shouldn’t be there. It’s a legacy of Blair to insist everyone should go to university and be brainsmwashed by marxists. The mental illness sets in with the realisation that your degree is worth less than lavatory paper and you’ll be paying for it for the next 25 years.

      • glenn_nl

        We’re in some agreement here. Insisting everyone should go to university – at their own very considerable expense – was more often than not an utter waste of time.

        You don’t need a degree for the vast majority of jobs, yet one is commonly required these days.

        The Marxism comes when graduates realise they’ve been hoodwinked into paying for the skills an employer should have given them, through apprentice programmes, and when it dawns on them that an education which gives back to the nation vastly more than it cost has been foisted onto them as individuals.

        Yes, you’re right – the whole exercise could have been designed to make one hate the capitalist bastards who set the whole scam up.

        • SA

          University education is not just a ticket to a job. University education makes you think more analytically and teaches you how to look at problems and where to go for answers. I that sense maybe universities encourage to become independent with a trend to Marxism.
          It is only when universities started to become an instrument of state encouraged capitalism that it has been looked upon in the way that United you, and Anon1 , strange bedfellows.

          • glenn_nl

            In understand, SA, but it’s not for everyone. Sadly these days, if you don’t have a degree (and 100K+ debt incurred while getting it), you’re unlikely to ever get more than a minimum wage job.

            Degrees are great on their own, sure, but not at the cost attached these days. Heck, anyone can gain a bit of life experience, party on down, and actually explore the world for a few years if they’re willing to rack up 100K+ debt in the process.

          • SA

            We are basically in agreement, university is not for everybody but everyone with aspiration should have a chance. Also the motive should not be that it is a step ladder to jobs nor should it be so prohibitively expensive. All these factors leading to recent monetising of education is creating a distortion and sadly the decline was supported by the Lib Dem’s in the coalition government of 2010-2015. No doubt this will eventually not lead to increase in Marxism in universities but just the opposite.

      • MightyDrunken

        Unbelievable, my degree had no mention of Marxism at all. I was short changed 🙁

        • Herbie

          I’m pretty sure that with the more contractual relationship between uni and student, you could sue for missing out on the Marxist delights.

          Though, to be fair, it’s mostly Trotsky and continual cultural revolution they teach these days, rather than Marx and economic revolution.

  • quasi_verbatim

    Another opportunity lost, as Trump/Putin are set to meet in Helsinki and not on one of Trump’s delightful Scottish golf courses, or at least in the clubhouse. Vlad might have been induced to do a little putting for the cameras.

    What a sock in the eye for the English that would have been! As always, I suspect Quisling’s baleful influence.

    • Herbie

      Helsinki is the traditional setting for Cold war intrigue. Almost a Russian province.

      Can’t see Putin setting foot in Britain in these circumstances, though there was that state visit when he was still pretending to play along.

      I mean, he had to have some of the Russian navy accompany him to Australia. sitting off the coast.

      And his last visit to Turkey had him accompanied by a helicopter carrier with Spetsnaz units sitting in the Bosporus right outside the venue.

  • Sharp Ears

    New Play ‘Outright Terror — Bold and Brilliant’ in London

    “IS THE REAL NEWS FAKE…..OR IS THE FAKE NEWS REAL?” That’s a question that many are now asking in Britain following the recent Skripal affair and other events that have opened people’s eyes across the country. It’s a poignant question that this timely new play by Peter Neathey poses.

    This is Peter Neathey’s third play that he has written and produced at the Etcetera Theatre in London. The first, ‘Seven Seconds’, was about the incredible story of the third tower that collapsed on 11 September 2001 at the World Trade Centre. The second, I.S.I.S., was about infiltration and state surveillance of an activist group – unfortunately very true to real life. This third play is about the terrorist attack of 7 July 2005 on the London transport system.

    The title, ‘Outright Terror — Bold and Brilliant’, is, incredibly, taken from an advertisement on the side of the bus whose roof was blown off when it stopped in Tavistock Square.

    This is shown on the flyer for the play /2018, which states -:’There was no trial of these four men to ascertain their posthumous guilt. Random Order puts that wrong to rights in this powerful courtroom drama’.

    It’s on:
    June 25, 29, 30 (7 pm start)
    July 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (7 pm start)
    July 1, 8 (6 pm start)

    Book now

  • Sharp Ears

    The venerable Bill Blum’s Empire Report

    Why do they flee?
    Anti-Empire Report #158
    June 26th, 2018

    – Talk delivered by William Blum at the Left Forum in New York, June 2, 2018

    – In case you haven’t noticed

    – Another charming example of American exceptionalism

    – The other “n” word is even more prohibited

    He’s seen it all over his 85 years.

  • SA

    The conversion of the OPCW to a pro empire organisation is now complete. The steps taken gradually endorsed thier saintly status by awarding them the Nobel Peace Prize in 2013 and is now complete by giving the organisation the right of final arbitration for the ‘allies’ to bomb whoever they feel needs bombing according to such organisations as the White Helmets or other Western financed NGOs.

  • Dave Lawton

    Latest report on Torture and rendition. “British intelligence agencies were involved in the torture and kidnap of terrorism suspects after 9/11, according to two reports by the parliamentary intelligence and security committee.

    The reports published on Thursday amount to one of the most damning indictments ever of UK intelligence, revealing links to torture and rendition were much more widespread than previously reported.

    While there was no evidence of officers directly carrying out physical mistreatment of detainees, the reports say the overseas agency MI6 and the domestic service MI5 were involved in hundreds of torture cases and scores of rendition cases. ”

    • giyane

      Sort of said

      Sorry, not paying attention in class, who is Quisling here please?

    • giyane

      Dave Lawton

      Latest report on Torture and rendition.

      So often the release of damning evidence is used by the British government to whitewash the darker Nazi details behind the stuff we have known all along. In my opinion Rendition involves not only torture, illegal imprisonment, and valueless interrogation, but also the psychological remodelling of the brain, which was started by the Nazis and continued by USUKIS to indoctrinate both their own military personnel but also their enemies, Muslims, in war without ethical considerations.

      The purpose of this Nazi activity is the same as centuries of colonial violence around the globe, to change and destroy Islam. Nobody on this blog is prepared to discuss such an outlandish anti-British sentiment.
      We are of course in Churchillian terms the least worst, and people seem to find it difficult to contemplate that we might in fact be governed by the very worst opponents of truth ever in the history of the world.

      The purpose of torture is to stimulate the parts of the brain which deal with oppression and morality, and the application of psychotic drugs like lithium burns out those affected areas. The idea that torture is used for obtaining information is nonsense, lies, a red herring to lead us off the scent. revealing reports are always used to whitewash the past by our criminal leaders. That’s what they do – lie. That’s what they do – attack the truth of Islam.

      That’s what they do – libel the Muslims as extremists. They have been doing it for a very long time, maybe a millennium. it’s called Zionism, i.e. the perpetuation of the downgraded versions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity so as to remove the latest version which is Islam as revealed to our prophet Muhammad SAW.
      It’s actually not possible for many people to understand what I am saying because Allah does not unseal their hearts and minds. but I say it anyway. Whoever has ears to hear, hear.

  • N_

    @bj “Who wouldn’t want to have “sights of old Tel Aviv”.

    May God save me from one-line retorts typed on a microwave tracker or that might as well be. There is no “old Tel Aviv”. Tel Aviv was founded by racist foreign settlers from Europe in 1909. “Tel Aviv” was the title in Hebrew of the novel by Theodore Herzl published in 1902. In 1909 Jaffa was a town that was thousands of years old. In 1948 the settlers used terror to expel most of its population – hundreds of thousands of people.

  • Tatyana

    Hmmm, there’s an old and nearly forgotten method of keeping peace between nations – marriage.
    Monarchs did it all the way. What do you think of it?
    For example, Putin could marry Frau Merkel 🙂

          • Tatyana

            Stupid me, sure, they both must be. Little hope for Mr. Trump to change, I mean his beautiful wives and other women and some of his sayings – I’d bet he will never change.
            As to Putin, I’m not sure, he is single and no one woman around him.

  • Sharp Ears

    How many years later?

    UK ‘knew US mistreated rendition detainees’
    7 minutes ago
    Detainees stand during an early morning Islamic prayer at the U.S. military prison for ‘enemy combatants’ on October 28, 2009 in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Photo

    British agencies participated in interviewing detainees at the US holding facility Guantanamo Bay

    The UK tolerated “inexcusable” treatment of US detainees after the 9/11 attacks, MPs have found.

    The Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC) said it was “beyond doubt” the UK knew the US mistreated detainees.

    The UK continued to supply intelligence to allies in 232 cases where British officials knew or suspected mistreatment, its report said.

    The ISC found no “smoking gun” indicating a policy of deliberately overlooking mistreatment.

    Prime Minister Theresa May said British personnel had been working in “a new and challenging operating environment” which some were “not prepared” for. She added “it took too long to recognise that guidance and training for staff was inadequate”, and said British intelligence and the Army were “much better placed to meet that challenge”.

    The ISC rejected claims by intelligence agencies that the cases detailed were no more than “isolated incidents”.

    The report added: “That the US, and others, were mistreating detainees is beyond doubt, as is the fact that the agencies and defence intelligence were aware of this at an early point.”

    BBC security correspondent Gordon Corera says the report shows there is “no evidence of direct mistreatment” by British intelligence agencies, but there were “13 cases where spies witness first-hand a detainee being mistreated by others”.

    He added that the ISC criticises the UK’s foreign intelligence service MI6, and its listening service GCHQ for playing “a role in enabling some detentions”.

    The report adds “more could have been done” by security agencies and ministers in Tony Blair’s government to try and influence US behaviour.

    The ISC said Ethiopia-born UK resident Binyam Mohamed was held in Pakistan in 2002 – and that MI5 and MI6 were informed by US agents he had been subjected to sleep deprivation.

    The report said MI5 failed to act on that information before its own officer arrived to interview Mr Mohamed.

    What is rendition? Rendering or rendition involves sending a person from one country to another for imprisonment and interrogation, probably by methods such as torture, that would be illegal in the country doing the rendering. US intelligence agencies used the process of “extraordinary rendition” to send terror suspects for interrogation by security officials in other countries, where they have no legal protection or rights under American law.

    The US then secretly moved Mr Mohamed to Morocco, where he was tortured. MI5 asked its American allies where he had gone and what was happening to him – but was rebuffed.

    Despite this, the ISC report says, the agencies gave questions to the US to be put to him. Mr Mohamed was later returned to the UK.

    In the report, the ISC says the government “denied” the committee access to “officers who were involved at the time” of the UK’s involvement in rendition.

    British citizen Moazzam Begg, previously held in Guantanamo Bay, criticised the inquiry’s scope as inadequate, saying “we still don’t know the process of accountability.Speaking about his own detention. British intelligence agents were physically there watching as I was hooded, shackled, with a gun to my head, threatened with being sent to Syria or Egypt if I didn’t co-operate. There was the sound of a woman screaming in the room next door, that I was led to believe was my wife being tortured. British intelligence agents knew all about this.”
    UK involvement in US rendition programme
    The UK participated in interviewing between 2,000 and 3,000 US detainees after 2002
    British agencies suggested, planned or agreed to a rendition operation in 28 cases
    MI6 and MI5 offered to help fund a rendition operation three times
    The UK knew or suspected detainees were abused in 232 cases
    In 198 cases British agencies received information from interrogations where they knew detainees had been mistreated
    British personnel threatened detainees in nine cases but there is no evidence they carried out abuse

    Although there is no evidence US rendition flights transited through the UK, there is evidence that two detainees went through the Indian Ocean British territory of Diego Garcia, where records about the conditions in which they were held are “woefully inadequate”.

    In a separate report the committee said it was “astonishing” that the government had not established a clear policy on rendition.

    The ISC said the government’s failure to ensure the US and other allies cannot use British territory for rendering detainees was “completely unsatisfactory”, especially since there has been a “clear shift in focus” of US policy under the Trump administration.

    Human rights campaign group Reprieve has called for a judge-led inquiry, saying the ISC’s report was too limited.

    Baroness Chakrabarti, Labour’s shadow attorney general, echoed calls for a separate inquiry.

    She said: “In the days, months and years after 9/11 there was an understandable febrile atmosphere and the senior partner in the special relationship, i.e. the United States, was dabbling in these most horrific practices and – to some extent – the UK government went along for the ride.”


    Most of this was known to us but It’s taken ages for the committee to report. It is very shaming.

    Grieve is the chair of the I&S committee. When he was Attorney General a judicial review into his refusal to grant an inquest for Dr Kelly was refused by Judge Nicol.

    Shame on all of them.

    • Sharp Ears

      Verified account @CraigMurrayOrg
      “We support Mr Murray’s own conclusion that were it not for his actions these matters might never have come to light”.
      Para 131 Parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee report, on secret FCO policy of getting “intelligence” from torture.
      4:56 am – 28 Jun 2018

      The report 151 pages!

      The Committee
      The Rt Hon. Dominic Grieve QC MP (Chair)*
      The Rt Hon. Richard Benyon MP
      The Rt Hon. the Lord Janvrin GCB GCVO QSO
      The Rt Hon. Ian Blackford MP
      The Rt Hon. Kevan Jones MP
      The Rt Hon. Caroline Flint MP
      The Most Hon. the Rt Hon. the Marquess of Lothian QC
      The Rt Hon. David Hanson MP
      The Rt Hon. Keith Simpson MP

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      Page 4 of 151

      • Sharp Ears

        Craig Murray · Jun 22
        I should love to believe that this report will finally call out Jack Straw over his lies to Parliament about extraordinary rendition and his complicity in torture. But I expect the political class will continue to protect their own.

        Craig Murray‏7 hours ago
        As the only senior British civil servant to enter a written protest at the torture policy, sacked as a result, I gave key evidence to the Intelligence and Security Committee for today’s stunning report. British media interview requests – nil. Foreign media requests – 19 so far.

    • kbbucks

      Interesting to see the word ‘torture’ being replaced by ‘mistreated’ through-out most of that piece..

    • Antonyl

      This explains why English deep state always resisted a written Constitution: they would have come under clear laws – no escape as till now.
      In the US they have one and this makes deep state members life a tiny bit worrisome but they manage to go scot free with the help of other members – annoying that they are needed but good for group bonding.

  • Bibbit

    With a half English daughter (well Cornish) I sympathise.

    Sadly though, I fear, the title is more accurate in the past tense.

    There was another England.

    There may be another England to come, But I wish to have no dog in that fight. I simply wish for another Scotland.

    • glenn_nl

      We wouldn’t want to encourage masses of economic migrants to put to sea in unseaworthy ships, to benefit people smugglers before risking their lives, after selling everything they own to pay them, would we?

      Or should we lay on transport ships to carry people to Europe and the UK by the million?

      Or better still, send transport craft to fetch them here directly – so they wouldn’t have to bother even reaching the port in the first place?

      And what is the carrying capacity of the UK, if indeed there is one – perhaps we should invite the whole of Africa here?

      Honest answers to the above would be appreciated. Otherwise, it’s just complaining without thinking.

      • bj

        Honest answers?

        They are the wrong questions, addressed to the wrong people.

        If I may — you should turn to your War Department and you War Industry and ask “Why!?” and vote accordingly.

        • glenn_nl

          I don’t have a war department. What I do have is citizenship in a country which is already rather crowded, and asking fellow citizens how many more migrants we should be accepting, since some of them seem jolly keen on the idea, particularly around here.

          Rather than saying, “I would like a perfect world”, how about answering the direct questions yourself?

          • bj

            My answer?

            The whole of the world’s population fits in the Grand Canyon.

            I say “let them in” — there’s plenty of room for everybody.

          • Anon1

            I bet the infrastructure doesn’t.

            I’ll tell you what, Ben, let’s put 800 people in your house, because they’ll fit.

          • glenn_nl

            bj: I appreciate a frank response, which is a hell of a lot more than we see from the usual hand-wringers, who denounce the UK for not opening the boarders and letting the masses flood in, but get awfully shy about any specifics.

            Since you’re obviously someone who wants to tackle the tough questions, let’s start with a few.

            What is the upper carrying capacity of the UK – 100M, 200M, or maybe half the population of the world? By “Everybody” are you really talking about SEVEN BILLION people? Perhaps you ought to sit down with a notepad for a few minutes, and work out the density of population this actually means.

            What is the actual benefit of having half the world living in the UK, while the rest of the world becomes largely underpopulated as a result?

            Please explain how our infrastructure, social services and benefits system will accommodate tens of millions more people. If not 100 million or so. Less still a couple or several more billion.

            The last one is crucial. If you have no answer to that, I’m sorry – but you’re simply making promises that you – and your country – are incapable of meeting. It might make you feel great about yourself, but it has no grounding in reality.

          • Courtenay Barnett


            In response here:-

            ” I don’t have a war department. What I do have is citizenship in a country which is already rather crowded,”

            I would accurately phrase the reality as:-

            “I don’t have a war department. What I do have is citizenship in a country which is deeply prone to making war and supporting the chief warmongering country in the world so that places far away are left bombed, impoverished and peopled by ones who are either desirous or by force of circumstances, compelled to leave for greener pastures…”

            That, I think, is largely the meat of the matter.

          • bj


            In further response, may I refer you to commenter Courtenay Barnett below, who was so kind to be in exact accord with my sentiments in this matter.

            You reap what you sow.

            Much obliged, Courtenay Barnett.

          • glenn_nl

            BJ: Rather a shame you ducked out instead of answering. Bit cowardly, if you don’t mind my saying so.

            I don’t blame you – or Courtney – because there isn’t an answer as to how we can fit hundreds of millions more people into this country. Or even tens of millions, as you seem to be implying we should.

            Nobody ever answers the question about how an unlimited number of migrants should be provided for, but plenty of highly virtuous people like to wag a finger at the UK, and tell us that’s exactly what we should be doing.

            As I said, it must make you feel great, at zero cost or accountability to yourself, and nothing by way of suggestion of how it’s even possible.

  • Sharp Ears

    Corbyn to accuse Israeli Defense Forces of ‘war crimes’ over Gaza protest killings – report
    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has accused the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) of “committing wilful killings” that constitute “war crimes,” during demonstrations in Gaza, when 62 Palestinians lost their lives in one day in May.
    June 28, 2018 16:39

    Pity this did not coincide with the royal visit to Israel. It seems as if the Israelis made good use of it as propaganda all the way to the Wailing Wall with the UK Chief Rabbi in attendance and a kippah for the prince on hand. At least it was plain unlike his father’s which was blue velvet with an embroidered crest. He wore it when Mirvis became Chief Rabbi and again to Sharon’s funeral.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    We’ve just got back from camping in Cornwall. It was wonderful. We met some really nice people from Germany, Holland, and Lancashire (us lot get everywhere) on our campsite, prior to watching some of the most beautiful sunsets, before the moon came up.

    The main reason, why I kind of like Craig Murray, (even though he keeps banning me) is because he had the courage to point this out to The British Establishmennt when it was happenning.

    He should have been rewarded, with the greatest honours a country could bestow, He was trying to defend the British Government, from complicity in the most grievous offences against humanity, assuming they simply did not know.

    “Britain tolerated ‘inexcusable’ treatment of terror detainees by US after 9/11, report finds”

    Instead of rewarding Craig Murray, the evidence is quite strong, that the (I guess the CIA) tried to kill him. He probably felt safer, negotiating a ceasefire in Africa (The Catholic Orangemen of Togo and other Conflicts I Have Known )

    I have virtually no interest any longer in football, yet I used to be an avid fan, when England won The World Cup in 1966.

    If they actually get to the final (stranger things have happenned), we will probably be sitting in a field somewhere, with no internet connection looking at shooting stars.


    • bj

      “with no internet connection looking at shooting stars.

      I could imagine many far worse things.

      • Tony_0pmoc

        The best starlight scene I have ever seen, was in

        No 1 Llŷn Peninsula with my Mum and Dad – staying in a cottage (its still there, I’ve seen it). It was so dark there (no light pollution whatsoever, that even the snails were flourescent…they had fluorescent bits like in The Maldives (shellfish I guess on the beach)..but these were Welsh snails.

        No 2 Llŷn Peninsula with my bother, and his brother-in-law – and me Nevfn – we went fishing and I caught an enormous crab and boiled it in the water (they were posh scouse builders and had a caravan (no girls were invited))

        My Mum may have been more than a little bit Welsh – or Celtic

        No 3. Lying on the top of a boat on The Norfolk Broads with my wife.

        You really do not want to know about the details of seeing shooting stars, because you can be in the most perfect conditions – no pollution, no street light and no smoke, and absolutely nothing happens

        The Earth does not get meteor shows, all the time, but when we do, you can see them with the naked eye, and if you have a very good camera and a tripod, you can even photograph them My Son has.

        Few people do.

        You are almost all sat in front of the telly or on your mobile phone…

        You are missing so much. You are not experiencing the real world we live in.


        • bj

          I have been an amateur astronomer for well over 40 years.
          Being an amateur astronomer in the low countries is tough!
          I saw the Milky Way in the Rocky Mountains, and thought it was clouds!

          • bj

            Oh, and I have photographed meteors. Last time was decades ago, but I still have some negatives. Kodak Tri-X b/w film, developed in — I forget– to boost it from 27DIN to I think 36DIN.
            These days, I just go and sit quietly in the night and enjoy whatever the the spectacle is going to be.
            I saw the unexpected outburst of Leonids in 1999.

  • Anon1

    All 11 England players singing the national anthem. Just 4.5 of the Belgium players.

    Argentina was the only team so far to have no players singing the national anthem, according to my notebook.

      • Anon1

        Fellaini. The one with a face youd never tire of punching. He was uttering something under his breath but I can’t be sure it was the national anthem, so I have given him half a point.

        • King of Welsh Noir

          Ha ha well in that case most of them would get a half point. You should give bonus points for holding the right hand on the heart.

  • glenn_nl

    Working in Holland with a thoroughly multinational crowd, I haven’t found one person here with attitudes as negative and miserable towards the World Cup as I’ve read here today.

    Everyone enjoyed seeing Germany being booted out at the first stage, of course, and there are lots of views – and rivalry – about the fortunes of the remaining teams. My Brazilian neighbour is particularly excited about it.

    Got to go… the second half is on. Come On Englaaand!!!

    • Tony_0pmoc


      I thought you claimed to be Welsh, before you moved to Holland.

      I tried for a brief moment, to connect my rather large TV screen to an aerial….but I got no signal. I do have other methods, but I read the live reports of the game…and basically it was “Its even more boring than lying down on your lawn looking for Cornish Pixies, or even UFO”s.”

      My wife asked me, when I got back from unloading the car

      “Why have we got all these crop circles in our back garden?”

      Whilst unloading our car, I too noticed the crop circles in our front lawn.

      But some bad news – or good news if you want to buy it…

      The Barge Inn in Honeystreet, has closed down and is up for sale.

      I have done some wonderful videos there, and so has the BBC.

      One of the BBC’s very famous presenters, who I was sat down having a print with about 5 years ago (we have been back since), seemed rather annoyed, that I didn’t recognise him.

      I told him

      “I do not watch TV”

      My wife told me his name, but it escapes me.

      This is hopefully , their website. My wife will have all the inside goss.

      She is very friendly and finds out everything

      (we thought the new owners were idiots, when they shutdown the campsite, and completely annoyed the local boat people, and others (like us) who frequented the pub)

      The previous owner was lovely….and it was one of the very best pubs in England to go to.

      Rule No 1 Do not be horrible to your ocal customers. This is not The Internet. This is a pub.

      Rule No 2. Do not be horrible to the customers who travel a long way, to pay to camp in the field by your pub, and drink in your pub, and eat really nice food in your pub (when you had a good cook)

      Rule No 3. Buy it really cheap. The current owner just wants to sell it.


      • glenn_nl

        Yes Tony, I am Welsh. That doesn’t mean I hate England, or the English, or that I won’t support my fellow UK team when it comes to the World Cup.

        In fact, I think we’d make a far better challenge to these other countries if we could unite and form a British team.

        Taking the best of all of the UK, instead of competing against each other, would give us a much better chance.

          • glenn_nl

            Then why the smiley, because England lost the match? Not to mention several posts of yours – just today – on the subject of football.

            Kindly be honest. Come on, you love it, don’t you? 😉

          • Anon1

            What was the smiley face and the “Quelle dommage” for then? Of course you have no interest in football, but you’ll be hoping your own country loses because you’re that much of a bitter and self-loathing individual that you despise your own country and want it fail

          • bj


            you despise your own country and want it fail

            You make it sound like that type of person is a rare kind of species.

            Believe me, that’s a very common mode of thinking nowadays, in the UK and in quite a few other Western so-called democratic countries.

            If your own country is a lying, cheating, hypocritical, self serving bunch of murderers-at-a-distance, what’s not to hate?
            Personally, I think, for me, there’s a moral obligation there.

            Your mileage apparently varies.

          • glenn_nl

            BJ: If you really feel that way about your country, you must also feel it about yourself. That you personally are a “lying, cheating, hypocritical, self serving […] murderer[…]-at-a-distance”. You cannot just blame everyone else yet think yourself above it all.

            So what are you – personally – doing to atone for your guilt, apart from denouncing the rest of the British people? Or do you just get your jollies by slagging off the British public while sitting back doing nothing?

    • Anon1

      Clearly England let them win to get the easier draw. If England wanted to beat them it would’ve been 6-1 like when we tore Panama a new canal.

      • defo

        Clearly England let them win to get the easier draw. (read, shat it at the thought of playing a team who would humiliate them)
        Panama ! Those giants of world football.
        Many non-engerlund shaeden’s will be totally freuded before this circus is over. Guaranteed.

    • bj

      Can she just accept a gift like this?
      Belgian meddling in UK’s affairs?
      Was this on British soil?
      Questions, questions.

    • Brianfujisan

      Sharp ears.

      I see you were Shocked at what some Premier League Players Earn for Kicking a ball around..Messi is on £40.5 a year..Yikes.

      • Brianfujisan


        Japan Still on Course to win the World Cup ( Fair Play Helps Somtines ) and in that respect Neymar needs a Clout around the EarLug

          • Anon1

            It’s called the market, dear. It doesnt take money from anyone. It creates the jobs that pay the high salaries that sustain public services such as Our NHS.

          • Herbie

            “It’s called the market, dear. It doesnt take money from anyone. It creates the jobs that pay the high salaries that sustain public services such as Our NHS.”


            So how did we manage when George Best and the rest were on about £60 a week, got the bus, lived in digs and so on.

          • Kerch'ee Kerch'ee Coup

            As opposed to being totally ignored in the inquiry into the big New York inferno a few years back and left to fight various cancers

          • Sharp Ears

            Cut out that patronizing term of address Anon1. I am certainly not ‘dear’ to you.


    If Scotland really wants Independence then let them have it !

    Let them have the Euro, Schengen, EU domination and let them do what the hell they like !

    But when Scotland fails, and it will, then leave ’em to it and they can become another basket case like Greece and Ireland and have Austerity like they never have known imposed from afar. No bail outs, no come backs, it’s goodbye, bon voyage!. England is going it’s own way from now on and that will not be the same as Scotland if it chooses to leave the Union. It will save England a B&Q shed load of cash every year which can be used to good advantage south of the border. Bring it on Nicola !

    • Herbie

      I very much doubt that any monies saved by Treasury shall ever again be used for anything the taxpayers want.


      That would go against Liberal ideology.

      It’s not so much an ideology really, or an end in itself. It’s actually more a means to these other ends. Ultimately corporate power and control.

    • defo

      Another clown who believes this guff.
      See how you get on without an energy & resource rich country you can steal from. No more Whisky & Gin revenues being siphoned off to London either.
      Nowhere to park your penis extension Trident. Tier 1 ? LOL

      Let England carry on as it is. Declining, and moving ever rightwards. It won’t end well.

    • bj

      Craig is busy digging a tunnel to the Ecuadorian Embassy.

      Just kidding Craig — I’m sorry.

      Still, maybe sometime in the (hopefully near) future, we may see the deeper (pun intentional) truth in that bit of black humor.

      • Brianfujisan

        I hear Craig Got a wee Recurrence of Injury..on the Banockburn March.. It was indeed a Torturous Route Steep hills.. Under hot sun… Craig Thinks He was Not Called to Speak..But in fact Craig was Called..But very late.. Craig had moved on by that stage

      • Courtenay Barnett


        Joking aside – Assange has done tremendous good in opening up a lot of people’s eyes with facts, truth and revelations. Quite honourable and courageous of him.

        Salute I say; not mock – and – much respect to Craig Murray for consistently standing up for what he believes to be right and just.


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