No Trump, No Clinton, No NATO 388

Marina Hyde’s vicious and spiteful attack on Susan Sarandon and the Green Party points to the real danger of anti-Trump protest next week being hijacked by the neo-con warmonger franchise. The idea that those of us who do not want arch warmonger Clinton in power are therefore supporters of Trump is intellectually risible and politically dishonest.

Yesterday the OPCW reported that, contrary to US and UK assertions in the UN security council, there was no nerve agent attack on jihadist-held Douma by the Syrian government, precisely as Robert Fisk was execrated by the entire media establishment for pointing out. The OPCW did find some traces of chlorine compounds, but chlorine is a very commonly used element and you have traces of it all over your house. The US wants your chicken chlorinated. The OPCW said it was “Not clear” if the chlorine was weaponised, and it is plain to me from a career in diplomacy that the almost incidental mention is a diplomatic sop to the UK, US and France, which are important members of the OPCW.

Trump’s reaction to yet more lying claims by the UK government funded White Helmets and Syrian Observatory, a reaction of missile strikes on alleged Syrian facilities producing the non-existent nerve agent, was foolish. May’s leap for British participation was unwise, and the usual queue of Blairites who stood up as always in Parliament to support any bombing action, stand yet again exposed as evil tools of the military industrial complex.

Hillary Clinton, true to form, wanted more aggressive military action than was undertaken by Trump. Hillary has been itching to destroy Syria as she destroyed Libya. Libya was very much Hillary’s war and – almost unreported by the mainstream media – NATO bombers carried out almost 14,000 bombing sorties on Libya and devastated entire cities.

Sirte, Libya, after NATO bombing

The destruction of Libya’s government and infrastructure directly caused the Mediterranean boat migrant crisis, which has poisoned the politics of much of the European Union.

Donald Trump has not started any major war. He has been more restrained in military action than any US President since Jimmy Carter. My own view is (and of course it is impossible to know for sure) that, had Hillary been in power, Syria would already have been totally destroyed, the Cold War with Russia would be at mankind threatening levels, and nuclear tension with North Korea would be escalating.

“He hasn’t destroyed mankind yet” is faint praise for anyone. Being less of an existential danger to mankind than Hillary Clinton is a level achieved by virtually the entire population of the planet. I am not supporting Trump. I am condemning Clinton. I too, like Susan Sarandon, would have voted for Jill Stein were I an American.

So do protest against Trump. But do so under the banner No Trump! No Clinton! No NATO! And if any Clintonite or Blairite gets up to address you, tell them very loudly where to get off. I remember the hijacking of the Make Poverty History campaign by Brown, Darling and Campbell on behalf of their banker friends. Don’t let that happen again.

Or here is an even better idea.

Escape the Trump visit completely. Rather than stand penned in and shouting slogans at a police van parked right in front of you, turn your back on all of that and come join me at the Doune the Rabbit Hole Festival from 13 to 15 July. As our regulars know, this blog has been intimately connected with running the Festival from the start. This year is much bigger, with the Levellers, Akala, Atari Teenage Riot, Peatbog Faeries, and literally scores of other bands, and a great array of other festival activities too, including for kids, who come free and get free drinks.

DTRH has no sponsorship, no advertising, no government money and no rip-offs – beer and cider from £3.50 a pint at the bars. It is very much an alternative lifestyle gathering, and I find spiritual renewal there in the glorious Stirlingshire countryside. (I know that sounds corny, but I do). Tickets are £90 for full weekend including camping, which I think makes it the cheapest festival on this level around. Or you can buy a cheaper day ticket and drop in just for the day. If tickets are too expensive or you fancy a different kind of fun, you can volunteer, including to come and work with me in the bar, though there are a whole range of other tasks to be done if you don’t fancy that. Volunteers get in free and get fed in return for one six hour shift a day.

I really do hope I will see some of you there – it looks set to be a glorious weekend. Forget stress, forget Trump and hang out with nice people!

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388 thoughts on “No Trump, No Clinton, No NATO

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  • Martinned

    I thought it was intemperate but not wrong. If you still think, *today*, that the US would have been just as worse off with president Hillary Clinton, you’re a special kind of deranged.

    • Republicofscotland

      Well Obama, the POTUS longest at war did name Killary as his SoS. Hillary used US allies in a term called Convening Power, to bolster Gaddafi’s internal enemies, and to eventually overthrow him.

      But then again what do I know, they awarded Obama the Nobel Peace prize in 2009.

    • Xavi

      The Guardian has a stable of ferociously pro-Hillary, anti-Corbyn female columnists from elite backgrounds. Marina Hyde is just the most dishonest of them because she built her career mocking vapid, corrupt New Labour war hawks, yet she now represents them as the course of reason and sanity.

    • James Charles

      The US and others would probably be far worse off?

      ‘One of many truths lost within this discourse is the reality that the creation of a no-fly zone would, in the words of the most senior general in the US Armed Forces, mean the US going to war “against Syria and Russia”. ‘

    • Andyoldlabour

      The only way that the US would have been better off, is if the Democrats had allowed Bernie Sanders to run for POTUS against Trump, because I reckon he would have won, because the turnout at the election was around 50%. There were many Democrats who never turned out to vote for warmonger Clinton.

    • John2o2o

      I wonder what you wanted to say?

      There’s a chance for peace in Korea that would never have happened with an establishment figure from either the republican or democratic parties.

      That makes Trump the best of a very very bad lot.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    The best way to deal with a world gone mad is just to add to it with more narcissism.

  • bj

    I like Trump’s apparent less confrontational stance towards Russia (whatever will come of it), and him being much more restrained in military actions abroad.

    When I talk about this with others, they mention his despicable policies on immigrants, as if there’s a dichotomy and inconsequential reasoning.

    I usually agree vehemently on their criticisms, but annotate my response by saying politics is not about liking a person and therefore his policies — it’s about (dis)liking policies, period.

    • Republicofscotland

      “I like Trump’s apparent less confrontational stance towards Russia (whatever will come of it), and him being much more restrained in military actions abroad.”

      Every modern POTUS needs a war to define them, around re-election time or even before it, Trump may start rumbling about Iran again, to the pleasure of Israel and Saudi Arabia.

      Like ancient Roman commanders/emperors, Julius Caeser, and Tiberius, and Augustus, all had impressive victories under their belts in Gaul and Spain. Whitehouse incumbents feel the need to project US power.

      • Shatnersrug

        I read from Abi Martin;

        Bush dropped 70,000 bombs in 5 countries. Obama dropped 100,000 bombs in 7 countries. Trump ramped up campaign of death to unseen levels dropping 44,000 bombs in 1st year alone. 121 a day. US obliterates innocent lives every 12 minutes in our name.

  • quasi_verbatim

    Thank you for clarifying the Marina Hyde article. She’s usually rather sharp and funny, but lost me on that one. Something about vaginas, wasn’t it?

    As for Trump, Boris now thinks he’s spiffing and that is good enough for me.

    Let us rather celebrate May’s Triumph of the Will, which far outshines any lesser triumphs from the last century.

    Or, as any dog-Latinist would put it: “E pluribus Brexitii, unum Brexitum bodgum”.

  • John Stone

    I haven’t paid Hyde attention for years, but it always seemed to be ad hominem junk. I was once kicked off Guardian CiF for contradicting her – she deals it out but she can’t take it.

    • Jack

      Indeed, check her twitter, of course she get applauded for smearing Sarandon by similar clueless warhawk liberals.

  • Jack

    Sigh. Marina Hyde, a friggin tabloid dumb-blonde writer trying to silence people that do not want war.
    In fact, dumb “journalists” like this live to provoke like this, best is to ignore these type of trolls.
    Leaving that clown behind.
    Problem is that west lack parties that are against war, really against war.
    LIberals are the worst today, as represented by liberals/Clinton crowd. They do not WANT peace between Putin&Trump,
    they want regime change in Russia, they want to fight Russia.
    How did we get here?
    Liberal media is very much to blame. Imagine also how dangerous these liberals will become if there were an actual war. People like that wont stop until nuclear button is pushed.

  • Paul Barbara

    More on Clinton’s gross criminality (and the Seth Rich business):
    ‘Imran Awan’:

    The video is only 7 minutes long.

    I absolutely agree with Craig re Clinton would have been worse, and like him also detest Trump.
    And he is unaware of some of the other vile crimes of Clinton (child trafficking, use of MK-ULTRA mind-controlled sex slaves, Bill Clinton’s part in massive cocaine import/illegal arms export).

    • Antonyl

      So which other American president would get elected who is not run by deep state apart from Trump?

      This left wing anti Trump stuff is as damaging as the right wing attack through deep state FBI / CIA to regime change in the US.

    • Clueless in Cinn Tire

      Probably the most predictable news headline this century!

      “N. Korea regrets US attitude & unilateral denuclearization demands during Pompeo talks” – RT

  • Christopher Rogers

    Craig Sir,
    Many thanks for pointing out the fact that our Totalitarian Centrists care little for the common folk, or deplorables as they are want to refer to the commons – which Marina Hyde epitomises constantly in her outbursts. Obviously, use lesser folks opinion amounts to zero, they are always right, regardless of actual outcomes.

    As for your other suggestion, I think this is a sound idea, let the Totalitarian Centrists strut their stuff in London, whilst all others show their contempt by engaging in positive activities, such as making friends, learning and sharing, activities our Centrist betters usually avoid, unless its with their other Totalitarians.

    • Carey

      Well said, particularly your last paragraph. We build relationships and alliances, while the dismal, corrupt,
      war-mongering Empire self-destructs…

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    With Trump engaged in trade, climate, and covert wars. it is particularly dangerous to see him as a better choice after a dozen or so months than Hillary when the North Korea problem still remains to be resolved.

    Trump won’t be getting any Nobel Peace Prize either from the nutty committee.

    • Republicofscotland

      Bear in mind Nobel only created the prizes, after a French newspaper said of him on creating dynamite, that he was the merchant of death, and that he didn’t want to be remembered for that.

    • Christopher Rogers

      @TH Ford,

      Trump needs to drop a few more munitions, destroy a few more Nation States and engage in a few more illegal wars before the “nutty committee’ will consider him for a peace prize – such are the delights of our Totalitarian Centrists.

    • Lea

      “With Trump engaged in trade, climate, and covert wars. it is particularly dangerous to see him as a better choice after a dozen or so months than Hillary when the North Korea problem still remains to be resolved.”

      Trade wars might be because the US is drowning, and has been for a long time, only it’s accelerating. All the more as China has launched its petro-yuan, which normally would have meant war, but of course, not if the opponent has the means to defend itself. So the war is what it can be against China, a trade war with no threat of American blood spilled. Haven’t you noticed that no one in the US media has anything to say against Trump’s trade war with China? Well, this silence means it’s a normal course against a country that challenges US dominance.

      Climate? The Paris thingy was a joke anyway.

      Covert wars? The US has been in the business of covert wars for decades.

      North Korea? The problem is not solved because the US perpetual war establishment doesn’t want it solved. There is a lot of money in the US military bases in South Korea, in the twice-yearly monster military drills choreographed by the US on NoKo’s border, and in the THAAD deployment in South Korea. North Korea does not threaten anyone; it only wants to defend itself against things like US-mandated regime change. South Korea has given ample proof she is not scared of their northern brother, and only wants reunification. The US is the only obstacle to peace on the Korean Peninsula, or better said, the US military industrial complex. And it rules the US since WW2, hence the never-ending US wars and warmongering. And the ongoing North Korea manufactured “problem”.

      Apart from that, Trump is a cretin with no ethics, but Hillary is a full-blown psycho. Craig is right.

      To Craig, I hope your festival is a smashing success. I won’t be able to come since I am in France, but it sure does looks appealing.

  • Athanasius

    Craig, why are you at such pains to assure us you don’t support Trump? The man might be a scumbag personally, but as president, I don’t actually think he’s doing too bad a job. And yes, being able to say you haven’t yet destroyed the planet is no mean boast when you’ve got a guy with a briefcase handcuffed to his wrist following you around everywhere. What is this mania for not giving Trump a shot?

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      He’s still hoping that Trump will invite him to the White House for dinner.

    • Shatnersrug

      Craig saw what establishment liberals did to his friend Julian Assange, and indeed to him 10 years before when he blew the whistle on extradinary rendition, they’re still calling him a loon and a fringe conspiracy theorist even though the lastest government report complete supports his allegations. Know who your enemies are.

      Pre election Clinton was supporting a no fly zone in Syria, even having been told that would mean all out war with Russia by US military Brass. Now personally I just think that was pre-election jungoism to win support from the establishment, which she did. I honestly don’t think the policy on Syria would have shifted a jot. As much as they waggle sabres the US still aren’t dumb enough to pick a full scale fight with Russia.

      But it was moot ultimately anyway. The republicans won by gerrymandering and voter suppression anyhow, I think it would have happened whoever had the leadership ticket, democrats haven’t had more than 2 terms since Roosevelt anyhow.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Bear in mind that Nobel died before the murderous 20th century which put to use so much dynamite and other weapons to such devastating results. Don’t scapegoat him for the results by others, like the nutty committee awarding his Peace prize which still hasn’t got over giving it to O’bomber.

  • N_

    Here’s an interesting one: the Swedish national football team had to evacuate their hotel after a false fire alarm. I hope the kitchen and air conditioning were kept sufficiently secure.

    MI6 suspected the 1958 Munich crash that killed most of the Manchester United team may have been caused deliberately.

    Tomorrow’s newspapers are likely to be propaganda classics.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Now the damned Russians are hoping their football team can do it.

      • N_

        Got to admit that Belgium, England, Russia and France would make a politically interesting final four.

        • N_

          England have beaten Sweden. The EDL will be happy. The ideal next matches for English nationalist boneheads will be against Russia and then France or Belgium. But England is more likely to play Croatia, with the winner losing to France or Belgium.

          What day is the EU response to the latest Britgov Brexit bullshit due? It’s bullshit because Britain won’t be allowed to stay in the single market without allowing freedom of movement. Don’t get the idea that Britgov propagandists don’t know that. Ideal for them will be the following course of events:

          * Russia beats Croatia (unlikely, but possible given the KGB in the hotel home advantage)
          * England beats Russia
          * England gets “robbed” in the final by Belgium or France

          If it’s Belgium, expect a lot of references to this sketch by Monty Python.

          Elo ratings:
          France 2029
          Belgium 2010
          Croatia 1950
          England 1944
          Russia 1710

          • N_

            I just read some idiot on a Tory website say he thought the EU might refuse to give 17 million Leave voters what they voted for. What a moron. Rationality goes completely out of the window when nationalist rabies takes hold.

            “We was robbed” and “we are being robbed” are powerful themes. The German national socialists made a lot of use of the “stab in the back” idea.

            Nationalists are like grownups who stamp their feet so much that they shit their pants.

          • N_

            If you want the right wing Brexiters to weaken, support Croatia against England. England against France or Belgium in the final would be heaven for right wing Brexiters. England would probably lose, but if a “we was robbed” meme could be spread, watch out. England against Croatia is practically level.

          • Deb O'Nair

            “I just read some idiot on a Tory website say he thought the EU might refuse to give 17 million Leave voters what they voted for.”

            That’s good for democracy, seeing as 29m registered voters did not vote for it.

  • james

    i hope the festival is a screaming success craig.. i am in canada, but would go if i was over there.. thanks for your fine work..

  • Tony_0pmoc


    What a brilliant post. There is nothing here I can disagree with. We too are going to a music festival in Derbyshire at the same time, except it runs Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Your’s is still going on The Sunday, when there will be a World Cup Final, possibly involving England.

    I hope you have got a very large TV screen at Doune The Rabbit Hole, so that all the Scottish fans can cheer on England’s opposition as normal.

    I suggest however, you do not miss Big Country, nor The Levellers.

    It’s half time here. England are 1-0 up against Sweden. It is not the most exciting match I have ever seen, but England have started playing well.


  • Manda

    I agree with you Craig. I do not have any confidence Trump will be any different in the longer run based on ‘so far’. I am no fan of Obama either myself.

    “The OPCW said it was “Not clear” if the chlorine was weaponised, and it is plain to me from a career in diplomacy that the almost incidental mention is a diplomatic sop to the UK, US and France, which are important members of the OPCW.”

    I agree.

    This tweet from Mike Ralph King @ MikeKingWriter brought my attention to the symbols used and their meaning at the bottom of annex 3 chart on page 18 of the report.

    “So do protest against Trump. But do so under the banner No Trump! No Clinton! No NATO! And if any Clintonite or Blairite gets up to address you, tell them very loudly where to get off.”

    Well said! It appears Trump wont be going into London though so is unlikely to see the blimp baby effigy or protest close up, no doubt he will be coddled and cosseted like a supreme being by this Tory regime. I do worry Trump’s (first) war is shaping up to be on Iran, we are in very dangerous times.

    • Sharp Ears

      I see no difference between the dyed blonde war criminal Shillary and the auburn blond property developer/warmonger in waiting, nor forgetting the latter’s recent bombardment of Syria with missiles and his support of the expanding Occupier next door.

      A plague on all of them.

      No child shall be hsrmed.

      • Republicofscotland

        Lets not forget Trump’s bellicose inducing decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem. An act that’s set the peace process in the ME, back decades.

        Maybe Prince William will speak out about that awful decision when Trump arrives in England. Oh that’s right, HRH Willy, was last seen kissing the Western wall.

        • Yalt

          Would that it were true and the ME “peace process” could be set back decades. Five decades, maybe. Or, better, ten (plus a few months).

          But alas, the process has merely been accelerated.

  • pete

    Craig, I agree with your comments about Marina Hyde’s Sarandon rant. I also note Hyde’s Wikipedia page has been extensively edited by the Philip Cross person…

  • quasi_verbatim

    So, Vlad the Prince of Destruction hasn’t been barrel-bombing Douma babies with mustard gas but has prioritised Amesbury dumpster-divers with Novitsjok.

    Better watch out when the football’s over.

  • Anny Squire

    Jill Stein is not a good candidate and failing a more robust selection process Greens US should stay out of presidential elections..more important fo get people at State Legislature level first

  • Tony_0pmoc

    The England Football Team and English Football fans, used to be completely awful with regards to projecting the International image of England. Our politicans at the time weren’t so great either…

    Now look at the State of Play

    The England Football Team and English Football fans, have already repaired much of the damage, inflicted on the International image of England, as projected by the completely useless Theresa May, Boris Johnson, and Gavin Williamson..

    Who on earth gave these complete buffoons their jobs?

    They are even worse, than Tony Blair and David Cameron…

    I do understand there is often a race to the bottom with regards to basic competence.

    Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Gavin Williamson and the Tory Party have got there.

    I am not suggesting the Labour Party, are any better, but at least Jeremy Corbyn is better looking and gives the distinct impression that he is an honest man, whilst mumbling stuff about BREXIT.

    He wants out, and will negotiate a far better deal, than the star of the latest incarnation of Monty Python., and hopefully get rid of the current neocon blarite rat infestation.

    “Theresa May and the Holy Grail”


  • Nick

    Thanks for the article. I felt Hyde was pretty evil in that article. Trump’s an interesting one – he appears to be doing broadly what he promised voters he’d do. Not a nice fella, but no world leaders are. Enjoy the festival, would particularly love to see the Levellers again.

  • mike

    Here is a steaming pile of bollocks from the BBC from 8th April on the Douma “gas attack”:

    “The pro-opposition Ghouta Media Center tweeted that more than 75 people had “suffocated”, while a further 1,000 people had suffered the effects of the alleged attack.

    “It blamed a barrel bomb allegedly dropped by a helicopter which it said contained Sarin, a toxic nerve agent.

    “The Union of Medical Relief Organizations, a US-based charity that works with Syrian hospitals, told the BBC the Damascus Rural Specialty Hospital had confirmed 70 deaths.

    “A spokeswoman said there were reports of people being treated for symptoms including convulsions and foaming of the mouth, consistent with nerve or mixed nerve and chlorine gas exposure.”

  • N_

    Jill Stein deliberately helped Trump. She’s a fucking phony and so is the green movement. During the campaign, I watched her get asked what the best way to fight Trump was and all she spoke about was stopping Clinton. Bit of a damned giveaway. That was after Trump and Clinton had been selected as the main parties’ candidates.

    The Green Party in West Germany was founded by known former SS officers and Steinerites.

    • James Charles

      This may be the ‘reason’ that she wanted to ‘stop Clinton’?

      ‘One of many truths lost within this discourse is the reality that the creation of a no-fly zone would, in the words of the most senior general in the US Armed Forces, mean the US going to war “against Syria and Russia”. ‘

    • zoot

      the entire respectable political and media class of the western world unequivocally endorsed clinton and demonized her clownish, ill-informed opponent 24/7, for months on end. she also had a $1.7bn campaign warchest, made up of bribes from corporate predators and wall street parasites.
      probably just about evened up the advantage trump received from those jill stein interviews, that weren’t aired on mainstream tv.

      • Herbie

        Clinton’s campaign was garbage. Even Bill said that.

        It was little more than vote for me, I’m a woman.

        Hillary is a kind of hate figure in the US anyway.

        Trump just pitched himself as the anti-establishment candidate, and media, day in day out, reinforced that message with their attacks upon him.

        I’m sure Trump is in fact the establishment choice.

        As Chomsky said, whilst Trump and media are distracting you with his comedy act, the boys in Congress are busy dismantling what’s left of the New Deal, and cutting taxes for the corporate elite.

        He’s a better actor than Hillary, which was perhaps a consideration.

        • N_

          Yes, the media helped Trump an awful lot. He ran a brilliant campaign. The way the rallies, the shock events for headlines and his mentally ill personality all tied in with each other was masterful.

          Clinton’s campaign also said “I’ve got a lot of experience in public office whereas my opponent has zero”.

          Remember that Trump is a well-known figure in the world of TV for people of low intelligence: wrestling and “you’re fired”. Without that background, he would have lost by a long way. For many of his moronic voters, voting for Trump was akin to going “Yeah” at the TV screen when he “fought” and “shaved” his fellow billionaire Vince McMahon in the wrestling.

          • joeblogs

            “For many of his moronic voters.”

            Anyone who votes at all, for any of these people, anywhere, is a moron.*

            * “I care not for what government you vote for, provided I control the currency supply.”

          • Herbie

            “Remember that Trump is a well-known figure in the world of TV for people of low intelligence: wrestling and “you’re fired”. Without that background, he would have lost by a long way.”

            Yes. That’s the base support upon which they laid the anti-establishment narrative. Looks like he was groomed for the role, like Obama.

    • David Avi

      “The Green Party in West Germany was founded by known former SS officers and Steinerites.”

      Would you care to name some of the former SS officers? If you dare, that is…..

      • N_

        Sure. It’s hardly a brave act. Start with former SS officer August Haussleiter. If you want a Steinerite, start with Otto Schily.

        • David Avi

          Well, I’ve looked up August Haussleiter on Wikipedia and find no mention of service in the SS.

          Since you’ll probably tell me that the Wikipedia entry has been doctored, could you provide a serious link to bear out your claim that August Haussleiter served in the SS?

          And while you’re at it, perhaps just one or two more names of former SS officers who founded the Green Party, just to bear out your use of the plural?

          I note that August Haussleiter is safely dead (unlike Jo Coburn).


          • laguerre

            Hard to believe, Herbie, that you take that source seriously. The article is just muck-raking because the German Greens dared to be anti-Israel. Managing to find someone who might have been a member of the Green party at one point, and who also knew someone who was a member of the Nazi party in the 1930s is hardly rocket science for the full-time professional Nazi-hunters.

          • N_

            @David Avi – Get yourself some research skills that are wider than looking stuff up in Wikipedia. You might work on changing your unpleasant manner too. I’m not going to spend time proving something for a cocky twit who finds it hard to learn new stuff. Being rude to people isn’t a good way to get them to help you either. I didn’t even hear you say “thank you”.

            Do you have a point to make about Jo Coburn, and if so what is it?

          • N_

            Clue: when you ask for something and someone gives it to you, talking to them in an ill-mannered way is unlikely to induce them to help you further.

          • N_

            @laguerre – You seem well-armoured against learning stuff that goes against your preconceptions.

          • Herbie

            C’mon, Laguerre. It’s more than muck-raking.

            Anyway, if you want to know what’s going on in the world today, read the Israeli press, would be my advice.

            It’s very different to the soap opera garbage we’re fed.

    • Kerch'ee Kerch'ee Coup

      When I was involved to some degree in the Green Party/movement in West Germany, the main focus was on the anti-nuclear movement , such as stopping Gorleben, and on dealing with acid rain. To the extent that many supporters favored an end to the Occupation of Germany by East and West,it might have tied in with the views of former national socialists. Remember that back in the twenties, there was a strong romantic back to nature movement in Germany as a whole , bringing the banning of vivisection and of the slaughter of animals without pre -stunning in Prusssia.
      Are you asserting that once a Nazi always a Nazi so former party members ,whether or notde-Nazifiedshould have stayed away political involvement or been thrown into prison for their views like Ursula Haverbeck htpp:// . Perhaps the Netherlands would do well to deal with its own record in this regard?
      By Steinerites, I take it you mean political pragmatists such as Josh Fischer, happy to have their Greenclothes/policies stolen in a Faustian bargain that brought power and prestige. Ithink though this element may always have been present , it has more to do with character and opportunism, which arecertainly not confined to the Greens.
      In the US, I strongly supported Cynthia McKinney when she ran but sawJill Stein as a compromise candidate chosen to appeal to the more’sensible’ people and one who did nicely from Clinton’s recount.The splittist argument is stronger against Ralph Nader as a third party candidate for the 2000 election where Bush votes/chads might have gone his way. Some Democrat friends still seem to detest him for that.

      • N_

        @Kerch’ee Kerch’ee Coup

        I didn’t know Joschka Fischer had Steinerite links. I’m not so much asserting that once a Nazi always a Nazi, because an individual person can change, but the “green” element in German politics loomed large when the Nazis were in power under Walther Darré at the agriculture ministry; and of the SS officers who “denazified” in West Germany after WW2 (ahem), many were anthroposophists. The party had disappeared but a major part of its ideology continued (and still does). Hans Merkel who was a senior figure working with Darré in agriculture and also an SS officer (in their Office of Race and Settlement) became after WW2 a leading lawyer and head of the German Bar Association. One of his clients was the leadership of the Augsburg J__ish community. He was an anthroposophist throughout his life, from the mid-1920s. Anthroposophy is a cult that is all about the destiny of different “races” and its image saying “we are nice people who favour wooden toys for children” is a deliberate illusion. A very instructive piece of information is that Heinrich Himmler’s personal farm was “biodynamic”. The Steinerite org is involved in infowar in quite a few places, including for example Mumsnet. To a large extent homoeopathy also belongs to them (it’s not particular relevant that it goes back to Hahnemann) and they have a powerful medical network. They have also in Britain been involved in the push for “free schools” and, importantly for what amounts in practice to self-inspection.

        Jens Stoltenberg the NATO secretary-general is also a Steinerite. Enrico Berlusconi is connected too. So are members of Jacob Rees-Mogg’s family. I recommend anybody who is interested to start turning over stones because there is a lot to be found out here.

        I hadn’t heard of Ursula Haverbeck but note that the “Christian Community” with which she is associated is a known front for the Steinerites. (Some who are outside the cult and not minded to find out much about it are even encouraged to view Steinerites as Christians, which they certainly are not. Christians do not believe in reincarnation.) Triodos Bank, very powerful in “alternative” circles and which funds many “green” and “ethical” projects including a lot of wind power stuff, is also Steinerite. Threefolding (note the name “Triodos”) and “people, planet, profit” are code phrases.

        • N_

          Another important root of racist greenism in Germany is the highly influentual Ernst Haeckel, who coined the word “ecology”.

          Fun fact: Marie Stopes was a raving eugenicist and admirer of Hitler.

          • Herbie

            “Marie Stopes was a raving eugenicist and admirer of Hitler.”

            The Swedes were big into eugenics as well. It’s an elite program, rather than a Nazi or Fascist one

            Anyway, it’s alive and well and living on in more sophisticated form.

  • duplicitousdemocracy

    Trump is a conceited, delusional fool, much like Hillary Clinton. He’s trying to do the dirty work for Netty and his stolen land by economically bringing down Iran with sanctions, Clinton would have probably done the same. Putin told Netanyahu he wouldn’t get his dream of a totally destroyed Syria so he’s trying to weaken them through cutting off financial aid from Tehran. The situation we have today would be only slightly altered if Clinton had being elected. We usually get a matching sided coin when it comes to choice of leadership, hence the vitriol for Corbyn from practically every conceivable angle, simply because his involvement in a General Election actually gives us a choice.
    It is true that the migrant crisis is a direct result of bringing down the Libyan leader (he predicted the outcome if he were to be removed). Horrendous racist crimes have been committed since Gaddafi was murdered and extensive damage WAS inflicted. You would think that one particular contributer would be a critic of those that masterminded the Libyan destruction, considering his nationalist tendencies but he seems to insist on denying that the 14,000 bombing raids that NATO accomplished had much impact.

  • Mystery Visitor

    Wow… That article… About sums up what the “Resistance” is all about.

  • SA

    The problem is not individuals and who gets elected, it is the system which limits choice to rich narcissists of either party. There may be a change of emphasis or priorities but the results, especially concerning foreign policy, will be the same. The same applies to the UK prior to Corbyn where there is little difference in policy between the Blairites and the softer Tories. Democracy has been reduced to a zero sum game as illustrated by the Brexit debate where the voice of the 48% are ignored because the vote was won by 52%. Without changing the system, there will simply be no difference with elections.

  • CanSpeccy

    Your skepticism about Trump may prove justified, but the the ship of state does not turn on a dime, especially when it is infested with an accumulation of neocon agents and traitors opposed to every change the incumbent administration seeks to make.

    Under Trump, the trend, so far, has been in the right direction (the rocket attack on alleged chemical weapons caches, etc. in Syria was clearly a joke at the expense of the Neocons: A bunch of obsolete missiles fired at empty buildings signifying nothing ridicule but for past American policy): unemployment is down, wages are rising, investment in US manufacturing is booming, and Trump’s contempt for the European Treason class, headeed by the three M’s, May, Merkel and Micron increasingly apparent.


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