No Trump, No Clinton, No NATO 388

Marina Hyde’s vicious and spiteful attack on Susan Sarandon and the Green Party points to the real danger of anti-Trump protest next week being hijacked by the neo-con warmonger franchise. The idea that those of us who do not want arch warmonger Clinton in power are therefore supporters of Trump is intellectually risible and politically dishonest.

Yesterday the OPCW reported that, contrary to US and UK assertions in the UN security council, there was no nerve agent attack on jihadist-held Douma by the Syrian government, precisely as Robert Fisk was execrated by the entire media establishment for pointing out. The OPCW did find some traces of chlorine compounds, but chlorine is a very commonly used element and you have traces of it all over your house. The US wants your chicken chlorinated. The OPCW said it was “Not clear” if the chlorine was weaponised, and it is plain to me from a career in diplomacy that the almost incidental mention is a diplomatic sop to the UK, US and France, which are important members of the OPCW.

Trump’s reaction to yet more lying claims by the UK government funded White Helmets and Syrian Observatory, a reaction of missile strikes on alleged Syrian facilities producing the non-existent nerve agent, was foolish. May’s leap for British participation was unwise, and the usual queue of Blairites who stood up as always in Parliament to support any bombing action, stand yet again exposed as evil tools of the military industrial complex.

Hillary Clinton, true to form, wanted more aggressive military action than was undertaken by Trump. Hillary has been itching to destroy Syria as she destroyed Libya. Libya was very much Hillary’s war and – almost unreported by the mainstream media – NATO bombers carried out almost 14,000 bombing sorties on Libya and devastated entire cities.

Sirte, Libya, after NATO bombing

The destruction of Libya’s government and infrastructure directly caused the Mediterranean boat migrant crisis, which has poisoned the politics of much of the European Union.

Donald Trump has not started any major war. He has been more restrained in military action than any US President since Jimmy Carter. My own view is (and of course it is impossible to know for sure) that, had Hillary been in power, Syria would already have been totally destroyed, the Cold War with Russia would be at mankind threatening levels, and nuclear tension with North Korea would be escalating.

“He hasn’t destroyed mankind yet” is faint praise for anyone. Being less of an existential danger to mankind than Hillary Clinton is a level achieved by virtually the entire population of the planet. I am not supporting Trump. I am condemning Clinton. I too, like Susan Sarandon, would have voted for Jill Stein were I an American.

So do protest against Trump. But do so under the banner No Trump! No Clinton! No NATO! And if any Clintonite or Blairite gets up to address you, tell them very loudly where to get off. I remember the hijacking of the Make Poverty History campaign by Brown, Darling and Campbell on behalf of their banker friends. Don’t let that happen again.

Or here is an even better idea.

Escape the Trump visit completely. Rather than stand penned in and shouting slogans at a police van parked right in front of you, turn your back on all of that and come join me at the Doune the Rabbit Hole Festival from 13 to 15 July. As our regulars know, this blog has been intimately connected with running the Festival from the start. This year is much bigger, with the Levellers, Akala, Atari Teenage Riot, Peatbog Faeries, and literally scores of other bands, and a great array of other festival activities too, including for kids, who come free and get free drinks.

DTRH has no sponsorship, no advertising, no government money and no rip-offs – beer and cider from £3.50 a pint at the bars. It is very much an alternative lifestyle gathering, and I find spiritual renewal there in the glorious Stirlingshire countryside. (I know that sounds corny, but I do). Tickets are £90 for full weekend including camping, which I think makes it the cheapest festival on this level around. Or you can buy a cheaper day ticket and drop in just for the day. If tickets are too expensive or you fancy a different kind of fun, you can volunteer, including to come and work with me in the bar, though there are a whole range of other tasks to be done if you don’t fancy that. Volunteers get in free and get fed in return for one six hour shift a day.

I really do hope I will see some of you there – it looks set to be a glorious weekend. Forget stress, forget Trump and hang out with nice people!

388 thoughts on “No Trump, No Clinton, No NATO

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  • John Mann

    “The idea that those of us who do not want arch warmonger Clinton in power are therefore supporters of Trump is intellectually risible and politically dishonest.”

    Dude, intellectual risibility and political dishonesty is ‘in’. It’s 2018. Intellectual seriousness and political honesty are soooooo last century. Get with it!


  • Sharp Ears

    Peston asked May if, in the event of England playing Russia in the World Cup final, a member of the British government would attend the match.

    She fixed him with one of her icy faux smiling glares and did not answer, yes or no, only-begotten ft to say that Russia had poisoned people in this country.

    • Sharp Ears

      I have no idea how the stupid predictive text made ‘only to say’ into ‘only-begotten ft to say’. !

      • N_

        Imagine what a predictive thought chip will make you think if you get one implanted. Mine told me to take a shit half an hour after I’d had one yesterday. I’m so rebellious, though. I never do what I’m told!

    • Charles Bostock

      Sharp Ears

      I know you said you weren’t interested in football and that you found it boring but since that hasn’t stopped you from subsequently commenting on the World Cup could I possibly ask you if you’d be pleased to see England reach the final?

      • Sharp Ears

        @ 20.47 You still appear to be overly obsessed in what I say.

        You are wrong, again. The subject of my post was not football in which I have no interest except the obscene levels of pay to the players. It was about May’s response to Peston in an interview he conducted. Get it right.

        • Charles Bostock

          I think your post starts off with “Peston asked May if, in the event of England playing Russia in the World Cup final,……” and so I just thought I’d ask you if you’d be happy to see England get that far.

          Nothing wrong with asking, was there? 🙂

    • Herbie

      She’s trying to look all prime ministerial and dominant and all.

      But she just looks like a tit.

      I mean, who’s scripting this nonsense.

      They’re want to sell her as Maggie II but it’s not really working is it chaps, I mean, come on. And then you’ve got old beardy 70s Leftie in opposition.

      Another BBC Repeat then. No new scripts.

      The Americans are much better at this kind of thing.

      And they’ve got much much better actors.

  • glenn_nl

    CM: “The idea that those of us who do not want arch warmonger Clinton in power are therefore supporters of Trump is intellectually risible and politically dishonest.

    Agreed. And it is equally intellectually risible and politically dishonest to suggest that any of us who do not like Trump in power, an ignorant savage with fascistic tendencies, are therefore enthusiasts of Clinton who approve of everything she does and stands for.

    CM: “I am not supporting Trump. I am condemning Clinton. I too, like Susan Sarandon, would have voted for Jill Stein were I an American.

    Interesting point here. On the domestic front, Trump is a disaster for Americans. Putting far-right stooges on the Supreme Court has caused a great deal of damage already. Further appointments will increase the damage for generations.

    It has just dealt a major blow to unions, severely threatens gay rights, and may well cost a woman’s right to her own choices concerning reproductive rights. Never mind the slashing of social programmes, tax cuts for the rich, and strengthening the grip of corporations over people. It gives the religious far-right Christian zealots a dominance in society that should concern any reasonable person.

    This is what has happened because good people like Susan Sarandon effectively voted for Trump, by failing to vote for the only viable opponent. Great for personal purity, very bad on any practical level.

    What Clinton would have done in office is open for question, but I do not buy into the right-wing propaganda that we would have nuclear war five minutes after her being sworn in.

    On the international front, it’s conceivable that we are better off with Trump. That is if you concede that trade wars, the insulting of allies and destroying generations of diplomacy, the virtual dismantling of the State Department, the abandoning of Treaties made, and the sucking up and encouragement of the world’s worst dictators, together with the kidnapping of thousands of children, is all worth it.

    • lysias

      The election of Hillary Clinton would also have meant the perpetuation of the plutocrats’ control of the Democratic Party. After her defeat, there is a chance that that can be ended.

      I did vote for Jill Stein. And I am still glad that I did.

      • Carey

        This. I too voted for Jill Stein, the only visible anti-Perma-War candidate.

        • N_

          An executive presidency elected by electoral college is a stupid system. At least France and Russia manage to have one person, one vote.

          • joeblogs

            There is a reason for the Electoral College.
            Without it, the USA would soon resemble a nastier version (because real) version of the ‘Hunger Games’ film.

        • glenn_nl

          R: “It was my second time voting for Jill Stein for president.

          Congratulations. How’s that working out for you? You’ve got Trump to show for it, hope you’re proud.

    • lysias

      It is not open to question that Hillary was calling for a no-fly zone in Syria throughout the campaign. I heard her do so in the last debate, where she also talked about the power a U.S. president would have over the nuclear arsenal. A no-fly zone would have meant shooting down Russian planes.

    • Mr Ripple

      “An ignorant savage with fascistic tendencies “
      Lol. Wrong on both points. Firstly, the key to his success is your underestimation of him, and, secondly, you don’t know what a fascist is.

      • N_

        I know you weren’t addressing me, but I know what a fascist is, and in bringing together a threat of state violence with a threat of violence by private bodies Trump’s campaign was certainly fascistic.

        • Herbie

          We’re post political ideology now. Human, much too human.

          This era is simply technocratic management of human resources. With all that that implies. That’s it.

          In the geopolitical sphere, what you’re seeing is an exchange of vassals, between the major powers, and a reorganising of relations at vassal level.

          Not as blunt as Yalta.

          A more satisfying drama, perhaps.

  • Loony

    This is utter drivel.

    Many people have stood against perpetual warmongering and the endless lies and disinformation of the media. Sone (including the author) have eve sacrificed their careers. What has it all achieved? Very kittle is the honest answer.

    Now along comes a man who will fight on every front and engage the enemy everywhere and always. and what have we got? Snide remarks and a half hearted urging to prose the only person acting to actually see you.

    the world cannot maintain ay kind of order for so long as Chinese and German mercantilism are allowed free reign – so Trump is acting to rein them in.

    No one can know anything with a corporate and openly fascistic media – so Trump is relentlessly attacking them.

    No government can set policy when the levers of control are i the grip of the deep state – and so Trump is providing implacable and unyielding opposition.

    The crimes of the past are intended ti lead to the crimes of the future and so Trump is acting to contain the effects of those crimes and prevent the future from being contaminated by the past.

    This who believe they exercise control seek to exercise that control through entities such as NATO and the EU – Trump despises both.

    How can you possibly criticize NATO if you support the EU? They are 2 sides of the same coin.

    The British need to get out on the streets and give thanks that a man who owes nothing to the mass of the British people is nonetheless prepared to do all in his power to save you. Be thankful for President Trump – and have the grace to show your appreciation.

    • glenn_nl

      “Engage the enemy at every level” – are you having a laugh?

      Licking the boots of a filthy, murderous totalitarian dictator, in return for nothing at all, matches this description?

      Yet this is Trump’s greatest achievement to date in your view, as you heap endless praise on a know-nothing fascist sympathising, rabble-rousing panderer to the swivel-eyed religious right, as he tears families apart – kidnapping thousands of children right this moment – to appease the xenophobic base.

      Do you also find yourself praising filthy dictators (past and present) yourself, Loony? Or do you leave that to the professionals like Trump?

      • Nick

        I was going to reply to Loony and say “Hold on, what about this calm and reasoned debate you were in favour of?” But as vitriolic rants go, you’ve won the prize tonight (so far)

    • N_

      Now along comes a man who will fight on every front and engage the enemy everywhere and always.

      Do you know the meaning of the words “enemy” and “always”? Lose your personality in the shamanic persona of the fuhrer, why don’t you? Sounds like you really enjoy the wrestling!

      • Loony

        President Trump is a serial winner – get behind the President and you can win too.

        Keep sniping at him and spewing ignorance then you will join the losers. Yes I am talking to the person that thinks German and Chinese mercantilism is sustainable.

        Once the UK was a mercantile nation – it underpinned the British Empire and all the crimes you and your ilk wail about endlessly. The victims of British mercantilism could not defend themselves. Europeans today cannot defend themselves because they are too stupid to understand what is going on. Not so the Americans – they both understand what is going on and can and will defend themselves.

        Name one mercantile power anywhere that endured and did not impoverish those on the other end of its power. You want to be a beggar in the gutter – go right ahead no one cares. Keep whinging about victims of past crimes and refuse to see the current crimes that are stamping on your face. You want to be a victim? Terrific, but just watch in awe as President Trump appeals to winners and shows the world how to win.

        …and yes Glen I know that any refusal to hand over all of your money and the future of your Grandchildren to the munificent Chinese and Germans makes you a fascist. Because after all who cares about Mussolini’s (an actual Fascist) definition of fascism when we have your much more erudite definition to rely on.

        …and no Nick you do not appear to share the same definition of vitriol as the dictionary – but hey who needs a dictionary, all so yesterday don’t you think – but then again maybe yesterday means tomorrow who can tell when words lose their meaning.

        • N_

          Thanks for referring to Mussolini. One way he defined fascism was when you can’t put a “cigarette paper” between government interests and corporate business interests. You would be very mistaken if you assumed that we who point to the fascistic flavour of Trumpism don’t know anything about fascism and aren’t careful with our language. What I said about state violence twining together with violence from outside of the state in support of the state is also a big part of fascism when it’s rising, taking over.

    • KEN KENN


      The politics of voting for the least worst.

      The norm these days

      Trump’s a spoilt brat who’s backside should have been tanned a long time ago.

      Clinton should be locked up and the key thrown away.

      They you and many US people know that Sanders should have ran and won but – hey (as you Yanks say) that’s the way the cookie crumbles.

      If not for the slave adjusted Electoral College your man would have sunk.

      And you Goddamn know it.

      God bless America!

      • joeblogs

        There is a reason for the Electoral College.
        Without it, the USA would soon resemble a nastier version (because real) of the ‘Hunger Games’ film.

        • Skyblaze

          Explain why the minority shold dominate government because that’s the case at present

    • giyane

      Au clair de la loony

      Au clair de la lune is a French children’s song with which my mum used to lullaby us to sleep

      I totally agree with you about Trump’s old-fashioned honesty. So last century as John Mann said above.
      But his political bread and butter, Zionism and racism, combined with a kind of mesmerising fake tone of voice, ” sleep children, right is wrong and wrong is right ” are both unacceptable.

      I was listening to World service’s hard talk with Nir Barkat, Jerusalem mayor this morning. He said that Israel’s democracy works, which basically means that it works for those on the right. Trump sees no problem with Zionism and racism, so he also sees himself as a democrat. All those tory toffs that want hard Brexit are so far to the right that they seen no problem at all with millions of us paying WTO import tax.

      It all comes back to the one simple question, whether a person who flourishes under Hitler is sane or mad.
      For those who have solved life’s problems by projecting everything they hate about themselves onto the ‘other’, the neighbour, the foreigner, they see no problem at all in systematically destroying what they see as the problem which belongs to the ‘other ‘ outside themselves. Why not kill 6 million jews, by that logic.

      Unfortunately, Mr Loony, this is neither the religious teaching of the religions that the far right say they support, nor is it compatible with basic psychological principles. In fact the monotheistic religions insist on reaching out to the ‘other’ and engaging with them, not imprisoning their children or running over them in a demonstration.

      Beware the leaven of the Pharisees, the guys who separated themselves from the ordinary people and claimed they were superior. Trump is not superior to a Mexican. It really is scary that he thinks he can do imprisonment to a Mexican, and nepotism to a son-in-law, and still thinks he understands the message of Jesus Christ pbuh.

  • Charles Bostock

    Without being particularly interested in the Noble Game I for one am nevertheless pleased that England beat Sweden and has advanced into the quarter-finals.

    That’s because I find it natural – without making a fetish out of it or drawing any conclusions from the fact – that one should be pleased when one’s own team wins. It is as natural as it is unnatural – in my opinion – to be pleased when another country’s team beats your country’s team.

    So – without the slightest trace of jingoism, nationalism or even fascism – I do hope that the England team will continue to do well in the tournament. I’m sure that many readers will share that hope1

    • glenn_nl

      Seems completely reasonable to me. Although not actually English, or even living in the UK right now, England is still part of my greater country the UK, and since Wales are not even playing, it would be rather strange not to support my fellow countrymen.

      So with that, I was delighted to watch England play well today and win another game. What makes me more proud of them is the good sportsmanship they show.

      • Charles Bostock

        Many thanks for that response, Glenn. It demonstrates that it is entirely possible for someone to severely criticise aspects of his (or her!) own country while at the same time not actively wishing it harm or showing signs of acute “transferred nationalism”. Would that more people of the left displayed the same healthy, normal and human outlook!

    • N_

      Of course it’s nationalism.

      Fun fact: what was the only time a team won the World Cup that did not represent a sovereign country? Answer: England in 1966.

    • bj

      I do.
      And I’m not even English.
      Oops, I just destroyed your moral imperative.

    • Tatyana

      Now when Russia goes out of the tournament, I will too be wishing victory to the English team. I’m not only russian, but not a football fan as well, never was interested before this World Cup.
      Just because I know more of England than of Belgium or France, yet I like Jordan Pickford.

      Watched Russia-Groatia match yesterday, I didn’t expect it involves so much emotions! Oh my! Oh my! How do you people have enough heart to follow matches? I thought ‘the walking dead’ is a catching scary movie. Oh my! Now I understand why beer is needed to watch football.

    • joeblogs

      It’s the semi-finals we are in now, not the quarter-finals.
      We play Croatia, in the semi-finals: Wednesday July 11: Croatia v England – Moscow (Luzhniki Stadium), kick-off at 7pm England time.
      I hope you didn’t fill in your betting slip with that mistake! Bookie would be delighted.

  • Skyblaze

    Obviously Craig seems oblivious to Trumps agreement to increase the USA military budget and not do a single thing to decrease their presence throughout the workd….granted he hasn’t started any new wars yet but he’s hardly antiwar as Craig implies…throw in drone attacks which have increased under Trump….sorry I am not buying the idea he’s better for world peace or politics

      • james

        yes and while clinton expressed a keenness for ww3, trump suggested he would like to be at peace with russia.. so far, he has managed to hold to that.. the putin-trump summit will be interesting to see how it unfolds, if the usa public can stomach it.. at least half of them are attached to the mueller investigation putting trump behind bars.. the other half, not so much.. at this point if trump doesn’t start a war, or make war, i suspect the military, and financial complex are going to want him behind bars.. i think they call most of the shots in the corporatocracy otherwise now known as the usa..

        it seems for those who are a fan of trump still, he gets a pass as he thinks like a businessman… ethics and morals are a moot point it would seem, to these same folks..

      • Skyblaze

        Well it would be quite hard to as he had no experience in government….this is another bs article which falls into whatiffery

        Trump is in power. TRUMP has increased the military budget and extended drone attacks. He’s no dove

  • Jack

    A policeman poisoned now, doesnt this sounds more and more like some psychopath from Porton Down scheme?

    • Anon1

      The two Russian penalty missers will now likely be invited over for commiserations with Vlad over a nice warming pot of tea….

      • Jack

        Will the May invite UK players if they dont make it to the final to Porton Down and blame you know who?

      • bj

        I more enjoyed seeing them miss than seeing your dearly beloved corrupt nutty Netty once again painting himself the idiot that he is with a football directed at Iran’s goal but curving back into his own idiot nutty Netty net.

    • Maywood

      I think it got out from Porton Down. One way or another. But the Govt will never admit it.

      • james

        rogue porton down element on the loose…

        maybe they can work their magic to help for an england win in the soceer match in russia? if nothing else – a good job at m16 or the gchq where someone of this calibre can be put to good use..

  • John2o2o

    Hyde’s “humour” has always been lost on me anyway. I’ll not bother with it.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    I just told my wife in the back garden, that Russia are out.

    She says “Expect more trouble then”

    I reply “There has been no trouble in Russia”

    She says “I don’t mean Russia – I mean Salisbury”

    and we both laughed…

    You mean now Novichoc V 3.0? as she binned The Daliy Mail in the correct bin of course.

    Even my wife doesn’t believe this nonsense, but she is quite prepared to make jokes about it, and she is dead posh.


  • Arby

    I have zero use for faker Jill Stein or Susan Sarandon.

    “I am condemning Clinton. I too, like Susan Sarandon, would have voted for Jill Stein were I an American.”

    I join with progressives who don’t jump on the regime change bandwagon of American warmongers, for which reason Russia is in uncle Sam’s crosshairs.

    “Jill Stein Parrots the Dem’s Discredited “The Russians Did It” Narrative in Her Official Petition to Recount Wisconsin Votes” by Scott Creighton (who speaks truth to power and fake progressives, mostly) –

  • mickc

    I entirely agree with this article. There is no doubt in my mind that Hillary was the more dangerous of the two. She still has not accepted that she lost and there is every risk that the US ruling elite will allow her to stand again….and ensure she wins.

    • Skyblaze

      Well technically she got more votes than Trump and only an absurd first past the post system with the electoral college would mean that the Republicans dominate all areas of government

      It’s another lazy Craig article which amounts to whatif

      • mickc

        The total number of votes for each candidate is not really the point. It is the United States of America, not the unitary United State of America.
        The Founding Fathers well understood the problem of the “dictatorship of the majority” and took steps to avoid it by creating the electoral college system.
        What they failed to remedy was the “dictatorship of wealth” whereby the candidates have to have huge financial backing to even consider running.

      • joeblogs

        There is a reason for the Electoral College.
        Without it, the USA would soon resemble a nastier version (because real) of the ‘Hunger Games’ film.

        • Skyblaze

          Stop posting the same text. It doesn’t justify an absurd system

          Trump got less votes yet somehow is President

    • Michael McNulty

      I hear they promised Hillary if she made it to President they would carve her image on Mt Rushmore. As soon as they found two faces.

  • Nick

    There appears to be some form of censorship on this blog: noticed a few threads disappearing recently. Is there a policy of which I’m not aware or am I a pint too many after the England win?

    • Maywood

      I suspect it may be a pint too many, Nick. Some threads fade away when Craig posts a new piece. Others return. I’m not aware of any censorship.

  • Jiusito

    Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out, but while Trump “has not started any major war” yet, he has reportedly horrified his own staff by repeatedly asking them why the US can’t “just” invade Venezuela.

    The fact that his staff are horrified doesn’t mean that they have any more respect for morality, law or human life than he does, however – they merely think an invasion would be dangerous for the United States.

    • Kerch'ee Kerch'ee Coup

      The Us has access to seven bases that is has spent a lot of money on in Columbia, with one aim presumably being to pose a threat to Venezuala across a porous border. It seems a good accountant’s question then is to ask what the money was spent for, if they cannot be used for that purpose.A favorable view of Trump is that he takes this bottom-line approach and seeks to cut the outgoings, no matter whom it offends.
      As to invasion , Hillary staged the coup in Honduras that overthrew the democratically elected, pro -Venezualan government so there are no moral scruples on that score.Previously Venezuala was cited in every newspaper article as the murder capital of the world. Now that dubious honour is held by Honduras , but seems to have dropped off the radar.

  • Hatuey

    Great article but I don’t think the defeat of Hillary had much to do with the decimation of Libya. It’s even possible that her “hard ass” act helped.

    I think everybody has sort of missed the real importance of what Trump represents in historical terms. It’s the same with Brexit and so much else. The underlying cause of the chaos we see in the US, the UK, Middle East, and elsewhere, is economic. I don’t mean that in the flimsy Marxist sense.

    Basically we entered a new phase in global balance of power terms recently. I’d say it became clear about 10 years ago. There’s been a huge power shift towards China, India, and others. Ordinary people in places like Britain and the US are finding it tough as a result, and that explains the political uncertainty and lurching to political extremes.

    Outside of arms sales and fiddling with interest rates, it’s accepted that we simply can’t compete with China, India, and the rest economically today. There isn’t even a pretence.

    Where we once devoted ourselves to making things, we are now fully committed to destruction. That’s our economic niche. Where wars were once means to ends, ‘get rid of that guy and replace him with our guy’, today they are ends in themselves.

    ABC: Always Be Closing.

    • giyane


      ” I think everybody has sort of missed the real importance of what Trump represents in historical terms. It’s the same with Brexit and so much else. The underlying cause of the chaos we see in the US, the UK, Middle East, and elsewhere, is economic. ”

      This blog is always divided between those who see everything through the logic of economics, and those who see it through the morality of principles. Maybe the World Cup has temporarily diverted the attention of the logical, who see excitement in this global lottery garbage called sport, while those who are attracted to ideas and principles see no merit at all in a pastime that has no use for the functions of the heart, other than losing well, which is inevitable for either one party or the other.

      I totally and utterly disagree with you. It’s nothing whatsoever to do with economics. Mrs Thatcher seeded a generation that cared nothing for principles , except the me first principle. The logical conclusion of that is for USUKIS in particular to expend all its resources and trilluions more borrowed and printed against the countries that have principles , viz Catholic countries and Muslim countries. A world war against principles. This sets the Muslim countries who used to be polytheists against the Muslim countries who used to be Christian a superb piece of artificial divide and rule, bigger even the poxy world cup, called the Arab Spring i.e. the attack on very civilised Middle Eastern Arab countries by crazed jihadists from Asia.

      The West, in abandoning all pretence at morality has ceded willy nilly second place to the former communist countries who still retain moral principles even though not primarily guided by religion. We are living through a quagmire of stupidity created by brainless neoliberals and neo-conservatives and find ourselves out-manoeuvred by countries whom we once regarded as inferior. This is nothing to do with economics and is created by the false god of the market invented by Mrs Thatcher. The market turned out to be a South Sea Bubble in 2007. It failed. It opened its eyes for a while , scratched its balls for a while and then went back to sleep. We are now living through the utter desert of post Thatcher intellectual torpor.

      My advice to you now is for you to put it into your mind that England is going to lose the World Cup, which means that the alarm clock on snooze will have to be ignored again. Don’t worry, Jeremy Corbyn is awake and ready to deal with the Blue and Red Tories who can’t be arsed to think of any new ideas. We go back to the last known system that worked, viz pre-Thatcher socialism, supported massively by Russia and China economically and re-build everything moral and principled that the Tories have destroyed.

      What’s left of the economy, you can keep the change.

      • Hatuey

        FAO: Giyane.

        Morality is a social construct. I don’t watch TV or football, except when forced to. Corbyn is a joke who stands for nothing — playing the same poll-watching game that they all play.

        Your views amount to a sort of religious fundamentalism and if I were an idiot I’d devote some time to dismantling them. But I’m not a fool and I know that arguing with religious fundamentalists is pointless.

    • Skyblaze

      We can compete in service industries where it’s difficult or impossible to outsource internationally

      • giyane


        Service industries depend even more on high reputational standards. the one thing Thatcherism decided was expendable. After 30 years of war our international reputation is zilch

        • Skyblaze

          I was trying to be positive but Brexit is a bad idea of epic proportions….hopefully it will be such a soft Brexit that it will hardly be noticeable

  • Jo 1

    Marina Hyde and many of “the sisters” at the Guardian are a coven and no mistake.
    Agree on all you say about Clinton. She is the reason Trump won.

  • Dave54

    I am sure i heard by the presenter (etchingham?) With a stern look on itv news a few nights ago that the OPCW definitely found traces of chlorine in douma, seeming to justlfy the attacks by the west on assad’s government. No mention of chlorine traces from ordinary household bottles escaping….unless putin loosened the caps before the air strike…Also, itv news refered to the druggies by the new novichok contamination as having an “alternative lifestyle” and of “going to the chemist to pick up their prescription”…never any mention of heroin addicts….yet Alistair Stewart seems such a trustworthy chappy…

  • Goose

    Putting any sort of faith in Trump as another Jimmy Carter isn’t wise, as he seems to have an eerie fascination with ‘nukes’ and use of military power, as his repeated demand asking officials ‘Why can’t we invade Venezuela?’ prove. Although admittedly, hyper-aggressive, war hungry Hillary would’ve created an immediate crisis by imposing a contested, with Syria and Russia, ‘no fly’ zone over Syria.

    • Skyblaze

      Evidence is an old fashioned concept….just make up bs to smear foreign powers as too many people will blindly accept it as truth and the rest of us will be too tired and powerless to fight it

  • Brianfujisan

    Well We had a nail biting Game with Russia

    well beaten I say

    I want to say.. we are In Horror… Us on the Clyde.. It has been on my Chest All week,,, We of the Clyde And Bute….
    Katy HOPKIINS… What a cunt.. Using that the Wee Infant..Alesha .. .It Was NOT THE SYRIANS …Hopkins is 100 % Lying. BITCH From Hell

    • Brianfujisan

      Elaborate on this Later… It’s Not Just the Island.. It’s all of us

  • zoot

    hillary,, barack and now dubya are three heroes of liberals/mainstream democrats.

    hillary, as craig says, destroyed libya, producing a refugee crisis that has pushed european politics to the far right.
    barack deported more brown families than all other presidents combined, the same as regards jailing whistleblowers.
    loveable, huggable dubya invaded and destroyed iraq on a pack of lies, at the cost of innumerable innocent lives.

    what are donald trump’s crimes that are so much worse than those of these liberal icons?

    • Skyblaze

      You like Craig and many posters have lost sight of the most important thing…Trump is in power Clinton is not. All the stuff that mentions Clinton falls into that parallel universe where she won of whatiferry. For a fairly logical based set of posters it’s bizarre that people are being sidetracked

      • Brianfujisan

        It’s A beatifull Name you have there.. But Stop Talking Shite ..We KNOW What Happened.. Re Sanders..At least The World Does

        • Skyblaze

          Again just the past…yes it was bad that Sanders got shafted but history was there saying it would happen….anyway…concentrate on the present and dealing with those actually IN power and that is Trump and his cronies

      • zoot

        the question was:

        what are donald trump’s crimes that are so much worse than those these liberal icons committed when they were in power?

        • Skyblaze

          Continuing what they did..
          .increasing drone strikes….increasing the military budget

          If doing it is a crime then continuing to do it is a crime

    • Brianfujisan

      Syria.. Libya..Iraq Yemen Palestine.. Ukrane ..Somalia.venezuela.ECT..Am I missing some. U.K answere Aye

  • Tom

    The Left is being manipulated into protesting against Trump by the American Deep State via the UK media. That’s why they keep advertising the ‘huge protests’ when they barely mentioned the one against Brexit and.why we never get a protest against Theresa May.

    • Antonyl

      Yes, the trendy middle class Guardian/ Telegraph / Times sheeple; as indistinguishable as most US Democrats from US Republicans in their voting for deep state (turned) herders like Obama.

    • Dave

      The Globalist Left and Zionist Right Who’s are pro-war and anti-Trump, so what is an anti-war America First candidate to do to avoid being attacked by Left and Right at the same time and survive? Compromise by firing missiles at the middle of nowhere (to keep the military industrial complex and Congress happy) and doing a deal with the Right in the hope this will buy time to deal with Left and Right and only risk a regional rather than world war, but preferably without either. Hence moving the US embassy to Jerusalem.

      This same dilemma faced the Nazis who did a deal with the Zionists (Haavara Agreement) to help break the economic boycott being promoted against Germany by the Globalists.

      And so far its worked hence the pitiful false flag attempts to demonize Russia before his meeting with Putin. And the anti-war Left need to recognise they are being played by the pro-war Left if they join the anti-Trump protests, because they are assisting the warmongers, who are the same people attacking anti-war Corbyn for anti-Semitism, hence why he too has had to compromise to remain Labour Leader, but is also winning the war.

    • Skyblaze

      Neither…Johnson thinks he is some kind of inspiring Churchill figure when in fact he is just a clown.

      I guess some old boys type of network is preventing May from booting him out

      The Conservatives are doing their best to keep May in power until Brexit actually happens as they know any leadership challenge will look silly and the new leader will have Brexit to deal with…which no one wants as it’s a poisoned chalice

  • Sharp Ears

    Marr has Poison Gove on this morning. I forget what he is now. Oh yes, DEFRA.

    The editor’s tweet – John Neal‏ @JohntNeal · 14h14 hours ago
    #marr on Sunday: Vote Leave leader and Environment Sec @michaelgove and Shadow Brexit Sec @Keir_Starmer. On the news review: Buzzfeed’s @elashton, Channel 4 News’ @cathynewman and the Spectator’s @JGForsyth. #marrmusic from @snowpatrol and a special appearance from Barry Davies

    The only name there of interest to me is Snow Patrol.

    • Sharp Ears

      The British MSM is SO incestuous. Forsyth of the Spectator (Winchester College and Jesus College Cambridge) is married to Allegra Stratton (Latymer Upper School and Emmanuel College Cambridge) late of BBC Newsnight, Channel 4, ITV and Peston on Sunday. She has also worked at the Times. the Independent, the New Statesman and the Guardian.

      Forsyth also worked for the Mail on Sunday from 2011- 2015 where he churned out four or five articles a month. He deserves a medal from Lord Rothermere.

      Newman (Charterhouse and Lady Margaret Hall, Oxford) has also done the rounds – ‘@ Media Week, The Independent, the Financial Times and The Washington Post. She has worked on Channel 4 News since 2006’
      Note her degree in English was 1st Class Honours.

      What a waste of very expensive education.
      More jobs than I have had hot dinners.

  • quasi_verbatim

    Comment by SadJav the Mekon that Britain has become a “dumping ground” for Novitsjok is disturbing. Is this what has led to reports that the Wiltshire Constabulary has been scooping dog-turds off the pavement for analysis?

    Our enemies must know that the unparalleled excellence of Porton Down and the world-leading expertise of Salisbury Gen. in Novitsjok antidote will prevail. We will fight them on the dumping grounds.

    • Sharp Ears

      LOL A reminder of the Mekon from the 50s.

      …The Mekon is the “Supreme Scientist”, the ruler of the Treens, who live in the northern hemisphere of Venus. He is specially bred for his intellect. He uses a flying chair, which is mind controlled, to carry around his atrophied body.

      The Mekon is rather like SPECTRE does in the James Bond films – a villain who is capable of almost any wicked action. There is another similarity – when Dan has been captured by the Mekon, or James Bond by the villain of the latest film, then various ingenious methods are devised to kill them off – nothing as simple as a knife or a gun – and this gives them enough time to devise an equally ingenious escape…..

      The Treens – what a good name for Treeza’s followers.

  • John C

    I don’t follow British politics enough to know about Brown’s hijacking of Make Poverty History, can you post a link to an explanation. Thanks.

  • lyetownmax

    Typical of how the left splinters and prevaricates, allowing fascism to rise to power. I couldn’t disagree more strongly with the premise of this article. Now is the time to stand up and be counted on Friday’s march. The idea Clinton, or anyone, would be as bad as Trump is risible.

    • laguerre

      “The idea Clinton, or anyone, would be as bad as Trump is risible.” Ah, the uniquely evil Trump. At any rate, uniquely evil until the next hate figure.

      • Skyblaze

        Deal with people that are actually in power not those out of some bizarre what if situation

    • joeblogs

      Mrs. H.C: “We came, we saw, he died! (followed by insane laughter).”
      (The victim was sodomised to death with a bayonet blade, and the whole episode was filmed.)

      Anyone who votes at all, is either ignorant, or delusional* – but someone supporting a person who said the line quoted above is a dangerous lunatic, so is legally denied the vote, at least in the UK.

      * “I care not for what government you vote for, provided I control the currency supply.”

  • Bill McLean

    Why are we reading nothing about the military exercises, including chemical, that were taking place on Salisbury Plain at the time of the “Skripal poisoning”?

  • Clydebuilt

    I’ve just heard BBC Radio Shortbread, Bill Whiteford claim that Bill Jamieson of the Scotsman voted YES in the 2014 Independence Referendum.

    Jamison has just agreed to this , his explanation is that independence would force Scotland to face up to economic reality.
    He’s an economic advisor to Ruth Davidson.
    Unless I’m mistaken doesn’t BJ live in England’s West Country.

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