The time that “Boshirov and Petrov” were allegedly in Salisbury carrying out the attack is all entirely within the period the Skripals were universally reported to have left their home with their mobile phones switched off.
A key hole in the British government’s account of the Salisbury poisonings has been plugged – the lack of any actual suspects. And it has been plugged in a way that appears broadly convincing – these two men do appear to have traveled to Salisbury at the right time to have been involved.
But what has not been established is the men’s identity and that they are agents of the Russian state, or just what they did in Salisbury. If they are Russian agents, they are remarkably amateur assassins. Meanwhile the new evidence throws the previously reported timelines into confusion – and demolishes the theories put out by “experts” as to why the Novichok dose was not fatal.
This BBC report gives a very useful timeline summary of events.
At 09.15 on Sunday 4 March the Skripals’ car was seen on CCTV driving through three different locations in Salisbury. Both Skripals had switched off their mobile phones and they remained off for over four hours, which has baffled geo-location.
There is no CCTV footage that indicates the Skripals returning to their home. It has therefore always been assumed that they last touched the door handle around 9am.
But the Metropolitan Police state that Boshirov and Petrov did not arrive in Salisbury until 11.48 on the day of the poisoning. That means that they could not have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ doorknob before noon at the earliest. But there has never been any indication that the Skripals returned to their home after noon on Sunday 4 March. If they did so, they and/or their car somehow avoided all CCTV cameras. Remember they were caught by three CCTV cameras on leaving, and Borishov and Petrov were caught frequently on CCTV on arriving.
The Skripals were next seen on CCTV at 13.30, driving down Devizes road. After that their movements were clearly witnessed or recorded until their admission to hospital.
So even if the Skripals made an “invisible” trip home before being seen on Devizes Road, that means the very latest they could have touched the doorknob is 13.15. The longest possible gap between the novichok being placed on the doorknob and the Skripals touching it would have been one hour and 15 minutes. Do you recall all those “experts” leaping in to tell us that the “ten times deadlier than VX” nerve agent was not fatal because it had degraded overnight on the doorknob? Well that cannot be true. The time between application and contact was between a minute and (at most) just over an hour on this new timeline.
In general it is worth observing that the Skripals, and poor Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley, all managed to achieve almost complete CCTV invisibility in their widespread movements around Salisbury at the key times, while in contrast “Petrov and Boshirov” managed to be frequently caught in high quality all the time during their brief visit.
This is especially remarkable in the case of the Skripals’ location around noon on 4 March. The government can only maintain that they returned home at this time, as they insist they got the nerve agent from the doorknob. But why was their car so frequently caught on CCTV leaving, but not at all returning? It appears very much more probable that they came into contact with the nerve agent somewhere else, while they were out.
“Boshirov and Petrov” plainly are of interest in this case. But only Theresa May stated they were Russian agents: the police did not, and stated that they expected those were not their real identities. We do not know who Boshirov and Petrov were. It appears very likely their appearance was to do with the Skripals on that day. But they may have been meeting them, outside the home. The evidence points to that, rather than doorknobs. Such a meeting might explain why the Skripals had turned off their mobile phones to attempt to avoid surveillance.
It is also telling the police have pressed no charges against them in the case of Dawn Sturgess, which would be manslaughter at least if the government version is true.
If “Boshirov and Petrov” are secret agents, their incompetence is astounding. They used public transport rather than a vehicle and left the clearest possible CCTV footprint. They failed in their assassination attempt. They left traces of novichok everywhere and could well have poisoned themselves, and left the “murder weapon” lying around to be found. Their timings in Salisbury were extremely tight – and British Sunday rail service dependent.
There are other possibilities of who “Boshirov and Petrov” really are, of which Ukrainian is the obvious one. One thing I discovered when British Ambassador to Uzbekistan was that there had been a large Ukrainian ethnic group of scientists working at the Soviet chemical weapon testing facility there at Nukus. There are many other possibilities.
Yesterday’s revelations certainly add to the amount we know about the Skripal event. But they raise as many new questions as they give answers.
“Traitors will kick the bucket. These people betrayed their friends, their brothers in arms. Whatever they got in exchange for it, those thirty pieces silver they were given, they will choke on them.”
“Those who serve poison will eventually swallow it themselves.”
———————
Does anyone know who spoke these words?
That old chestnut. And what exactly are we supposed to deduce from these words, other than the fact that not even traitors are immortal?
It is probably not sensible to view the words in isolation. It maybe be better to take a longer term perspective.
If you do that then maybe you will realize that absolutely everyone that refuses to leave Russians alone ends up getting killed. That goes for individuals and entire armies. I though the English had a saying about sleeping dogs. Maybe you should all revisit it or alternatively prepare yourselves for mortal combat. Given the ceaseless bleating about human rights, discrimination and social justice I somehow doubt that you will do too well on the end of Ivan’s bayonet.
Putin.
But it’s no great secret that intelligence officers hate traitors in their ranks, especially given the stakes and the fact their treachery may have led to multiple deaths most people aren’t aware of including those of friends and colleagues. Kim Philby wasn’t exactly Mr. popular at MI6, was he?
Correct. What you say may well be true, but remember – the working theory here is that Russia didn’t do this.
yes that’s the working theory because the “evidence” so far has been horseshit.
I’ll give you all a clue since you are either struggling or too modest to come forward. The second quote was spoken by our “mystery person” just after the Skripals were poisoned.
Video clip of Vladimir Putin.
“Те, кто капает куда-то яд, сами его и проглотят в конце концов, сами этим ядом и отравятся.”
“Those who drip poison somewhere will eventually swallow it themselves and they themselves will be poisoned by it”.
Here is a new resource for US/Israeli links:
‘Palestine is Here’: https://palestineishere.org/
‘…Living up to its name, Palestine is Here shows how Israel’s oppression of Palestinians is not just something happening on the other side of the world. Instead, that oppression is concretely intertwined with the oppression of Black, brown, indigenous, and other marginalized communities in the US through direct institutional alliances. Palestine Is Here will soon expand to map corporate, academic, military, and other local institutional links…’
Ian Bone of Class War has doorstepped Jacob Rees-Mogg in Westminster. click here for the video. Notice the woman’s voice saying “Don’t talk to this nasty man”.
Nice one, Ian!
Ian Bone has doubtless read his Saul Alinsky – perhaps he could even teach Alinsky a thing or two. An absolute cardinal rule of oppositional politics is this: ALWAYS PERSONALISE.
Fruitcake
no thanks, just had tea
Rees-Mogg has scoffed, “I wouldn’t get too excited about it. It was a few anarchists who turned up and it wasn’t very well organised.”
It was as well organised as it needed to be! And Ian Bone hasn’t got tens of millions in the bank. This was an exceptionally well executed action.
And we get some information out of it too, namely that Rees-Mogg, master strategist, seems not to know what “well organised” means. Other than that, his response was fully on-message (“I’m fighting for what’s right and not everyone likes it”) and on-brand (“I’m calm under pressure”).
Ian Bone has had No. 10 Downing Street and the Archbishop of Canterbury criticise his action.
RESULT!
The Tory’s are scared _N, they don’t even want to contemplate a new leader, and especially not a GE, cause they would be routed, with or without boundary changes.
Boris has disqualified himself and women are not even considered, not Amber Rudd Plc., nor the baby bearing auntie Ruth.
I agree but ‘Hardly anyone conforms to what is now defined as the norm.’ I don’t think a ‘norm’ washes anymore and number of things have contributed to this happier state. Longevity has meant that people’s life experiences can be radically different with changes to family structures, or lack of, transmitted values etc. The shadow of death, disease, war and conscription, imbued society with a deference and cohesion that largely fell apart thanks to likes of Kinsey, feminism, music eg Bowie. In particular for us in sixties (USA) and seventies UK the outrageous notion that we could be whatever or whoever we liked took hold. Choice rules – pick your own role model. With freedom comes fear (Fear of Freedom by Erich Fromm) and one can see this with teens who can struggle really badly although they have adopted a great response ‘don’t judge me’ which sends most adults apoplectic. Love them all.
oops sorry, on the wrong page
When I read that, I thought Craig Murray, had just put up a new article. So I checked, and he hasn’t, but it would be useful if you could write a message on the latest page when he does. Thanks.
Salisbury novichok attack: Russian spies smuggled chemical weapons through airport baggage checks, UK security minister admits
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/novichok-attack-russian-spies-airport-security-how-smuggled-chemical-weapon-russia-uk-a8534511.html
“Mr Wallace said there was no health risk to their fellow air passengers or those who travelled on the public transport they used to travel around London and onwards to Salisbury.”
But they say novichok was leaking in the London hotel.
Of course, there might have been some other spies staying in the London Hotel, who have not yet been identified.
There are logistical issues at the micro level also.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/photos-of-fake-perfume-bottle-of-nerve-agent-used-in-skripal-poisoning-2018-9
“Sergei Skripal, the former Russian spy, and his daughter collapsed in downtown Salisbury after being exposed to the poison on Skripal’s front door on March 4, police said.
“Some time during that period a fake perfume bottle containing the poison was discarded in Salisbury and ultimately found itself in a charity bin in the town. Police are still not clear what happened.
“Charlie Rowley, a British man who lived in the nearby town of Amesbury, then picked up a box containing a perfume from the charity bin on June 27.
“The box, which was labelled as Nina Ricci’s “Premier Jour” perfume, contained a bottle and an applicator.”
So a box ‘found itself’ in the charity bin where it was picked up – after a three month interval. Notice how “a fake perfume bottle containing the poison was discarded in Salisbury” but “Charlie Rowley….picked up a box containing a perfume”
Looking at the photographs of the merchandise released by the police, the accompanying rulers are not positioned, strangely, in such a way as to indicate clearly the dimensions of either the bottle or the box said to have been involved. The geometry of the box however gives the impression that it was designed to encapsulate the bottle as pictured, not the bottle and applicator housed separately, side by side, which might have required a smaller box.
Charlie Rowley’s account of his fitting the nozzle should be borne in mind. Would a pair of assassins be despatched with the expectation that they first expose themselves to mortal danger by having to assemble their weapon beforehand? It would have been far from inert don’t forget.
According to the Express (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1014606/salisbury-poisoning-novichok-sergei-skripal-nerve-agent-second-bottle-russian-spies) “police suspect that both men were armed with a bottle each”, implying that CR rescued the spare ‘back-up’, i.e. the one he himself put together on 30 June. But wouldn’t both packages have been configured in the same way originally? Perhaps we are to suppose that whatever contamination was detectable at the hotel it arose because one of the bottles had to be assembled there. But where would the second have been assembled if it were called for? If the dispenser were prepared already why would Charlie have had to fiddle with the nozzle?
According to the Express (see link above), police have “admitted to not knowing if a second bottle in same modified style as the one used to poison the ex spy, was used in the killing of Dawn Sturgess in Amesbury” This despite knowing all about the little bottle of ‘premier jour’ they had recovered from Charlie Rowley’s abode. If that bottle was retrieved from Salisbury by Rowley, as claimed, then of course it is in the ‘same modified style as the one used to poison the ex spy’, that is if certainty regarding the Skripal case is a given. It is nonetheless curious that the police should have taken an interest in a discarded perfume box, its contents resting on a kitchen work-top, unless they had a reason for suspecting its involvement in the Amesbury incident. The Express again offers a clue:
“Met Police Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu said on Wednesday that police were still no further in drawing a connection between the bottles discovered at both incidents.”
Oh really? What bottle was discovered at the Salisbury incident therefore – the incident being that which occurred at a park bench, not at the house, the Mill Pub or Zizzi’s restaurant? Of course it could simply be the Express getting things out of alignment. If not….?
SKRiPAL: it seems pretty clear that the Skripals were not poisoned by Novchok agent on the door knob. The security services/ police have dug themselves a hole by asserting that early on, and now cannot escape from it.
Ross Cassidy, Sergei Skripal’s ex submariner friend in Salisbury, recently thrown doubt on the missing 4 hours?
“Ross Cassidy, Sergei Skripal’s ex submariner friend in Salisbury, recently thrown doubt on the missing 4 hours?”
Where? Do you have a ‘link’, please?
Re Anders @ 13.11
Assuming that you are not being ironic and saying the opposite of what you mean,
“they couldn’t possibly break Russian law and leave the country under false names, could they?”
It depends on how good Russian security is. If it is anything like American Security there is the possibility that this is yes, they could.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2018/09/state-dept-uses-outdated-unsecure-poorly-monitored-system-to-spot-visa-passport-fraud/
YouTube Bans Media Supporting Syria’s Liberating Struggle:
https://stephenlendman.org/2018/09/youtube-bans-media-supporting-syrias-liberating-struggle/
I wonder how many people in the rest of the world are aware these days that the 11th of September, 9/11, 911, is the emergency phone number in the United States.
It’s the most blatant false flag event in history, carried out by complete and utter psychopaths who are still allowed to walk freely on the streets to this day.
It’s just breathtaking how these psychos can get away with this.
Another war, anyone?
I have been seeing that for a couple weeks now Rob
I follow a Tom Duggan on Youtube.. He posted six videos in July, then Silence for the last Two months. He Lives in Syria, Here is one of his Six from July.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZyCeeNrCiM
This business with Corbyn and Momentum being racist/anti-semitic…I knew it reminded me of something, but couldn’t remember what, until now.
It’s the scene in 1984 where O’Brien is holding up four fingers and will not stop torturing Smith until he sees five.
Corbyn and Momentum are not racist/ anti-semitic.
And four will never equal five, no matter how much “they” say it does.
the insanity expressed well – ty
I second that.
I second that too. I mean three, I mean third. Oh whatever I’m going to have a lie down. Lay down? oh for God’s sake. For God sake? aaaaarghhhhhhh how many fingers are there really!? *breaks down and sobs uncontrollably* Bring on opensource governance and end the madness. We have the power but do we have the will? Are we ready?
“And four will never equal five, no matter how much “they” say it does.”
Dunno about that. It’s a truism of the later USSR that officials throughout the system acted as if the great lie within which they worked was what it claimed to be.
And we see this everywhere. Groupthink, I think they call it now. That’s neither a full nor a satisfactory explanation. Look at the work of Polish academics studying how the crap rose to the top under Polish communism. Ponerology.
The BBC and msm more generally, argue day in day out that lies are truths.
The interesting study is how that comes to be.
I think the study is now called Kakistocracy.
Kakistology, kakistonomics?
That follows.
Strange how you can apply such an allegory to describe the plight of Corbyn and yet seem completely uncaring of the fact that so far as economic policy is concerned the entire nation is happy to believe that nothing equals several trillion.
So desperate are you all to believe this lie that the only people likely to be tortured are the few people who tell the truth.
“It’s the scene in 1984 where O’Brien is holding up four fingers and will not stop torturing Smith until he sees five.” That’s how they roll
Time stands still. It’s as if two months haven’t elapsed since the last broadcast of QT took place. It returns tomorrow.
David Dimbleby presents an hour of topical debate from Banbury.
On the panel –
Prisons minister Rory Stewart MP!!
Former shadow chancellor of the exchequer and minister under Tony Blair, Chris Leslie MP!!
Businessman and former Dragon’s Den investor Theo Paphitis Who?
Faiza Shaheen, director of the left-wing think-tank CLASS Who?
talkRADIO presenter and newspaper columnist Julia Hartley-Brewer !!! WTF.
I see the BBC preserve 39 episodes of the stuff on the iPlayer.
The BBC news just now featured a piece by Kamal Ahmed on the effects of the banking crash which took place 10 years ago. Individually we are £4k pa worse off in salary terms, growth is 16% lower than it should be had the crash not happened and so on. Who does he have on to comment? Why? A woman from JP Morgan, one of the stealers. All irony is lost.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Ahmed_(journalist)#Career. See his pathway. He’s climbed the greasy ladder.
To me, the BBC now seem a bit like the Star Chamber. Pay them X amounts of hundreds per year under threat of imprisonment: go take a walk.
You don’t need to pay them anything if you disconnect your antenna and simply use the TV as a monitor to watch pre-recorded DVDs and VCR tapes but NO live programming
And don’t be tempted to partake of ANY bbc material online. It’s not difficult to excise them completely, how hard is it not to eat shit.
Better still scrap the TV altogether and invest in a video projector, since the advent of high power LED’s they’ve come on by leaps and bounds and the price has dropped accordingly.
Hundreds? Can’t you be bothered to even Google it?
You need to ask why you think journalists are qualified to talk on these subjects. Working in the media from 21 qualifies you for nothing but spinning a yarn…..
Journalists are taught to write for any market, any demographic.
They’re taught to understand all the arguments on an issue, and play with them and around them to whatever end is desired.
A few years of this and you cease to have any values at all.
Academics are a bit like that as well.
Denis Healey once remarked that Margaret Thatcher had what he called “no hinterland”
He meant she had no life outside of the political game. Don’t take it so seriously, dear.
He himself had been involved at the highest levels of elite thinking since the late 50’s.
I mean, he’s being a bit elitist here.
He knows her role much much better than she.
If you thought 2008 was bad, there’s a bigger crisis building . JP Morgan did , single-handedly pull the stock market out of the crash a hundred years earlier (1907)but his bank and trust have since become firmly embedded within the corporate/military/ industrial complex.
Just asthe run-ups to wars are forgotten in a generation or so, so are the run-ups to crises. ‘This time, it’s different” should count among the’favourite last words”
Sharp Ears,
Has Craig Murray got a gig on Question Time?
When is he on?
I might watch that.
Tony
On 30 January 2017, the Department for Communities and Local Government sent a letter to all Local Authority Leaders urging them to adopt the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism. A lot of them meekly complied but a few didn’t. The ones that didn’t are now being lobbied by activists to adopt it.
A longer video clip of anarchist Ian Bone’s beautiful piece of doorstepping against Jacob Rees-Mogg.
The nanny comes out, and Ian – whose father was a servant – offers her a trade union card.
This is the best political action I’ve seen for a long time.
Most of the morons commenting at Youtube don’t have a clue what this is about. But people who’ve experienced life at the sharp end of society will understand it very well.
It doesn’t require much in the way of organisational skills or courage to shout abuse at someone’s children. It’s not going to change the world either.
Pathetic attention seeking.
Interesting. At 23:02 on 12 September 2018, Wikipedia editor Tomhiles1 added a section to Ian Bone’s Wikipedia page, claiming that Bone “shouted” at Rees-Mogg’s children. The edit was redone three times by Tomhiles1, being undone each time by Wikipedia robots, until Tomhiles1 apparently worked out his problem and included a citation. Tomhiles1 didn’t mention any of the other events in Bone’s doorstepping of Rees Mogg, and Bone doesn’t seem to have shouted. Checking the Contributions tool, these are the only edits user Tomhiles1 has ever made to Wikipedia; such “single-purpose accounts” are frowned upon.
I’ve noticed “single purpose accounts” appearing in other places as well. If someone makes a comment somewhere and it really annoys me and I wonder who this person is, I click on and find that they don’t even seem to exist.
He didn’t shout abuse at anyone’s children. And I didn’t mention “organisational skills” or “courage”. It was a propaganda coup showing imagination, intellect, and political nous. It wasn’t a piece of organisational excellence or bravery. It was a brilliant example of what a few people can do to put a posing rich Tory scumbag like Rees-Mogg on the spot: how much does he pay his nanny? The poor woman looked like someone he’s held captive for decades, paying a pittance – because she is.
Your sneering comments (“change the world”) show no understanding whatsoever, but a lot of dislike, because you know your side was outplayed on this one.
They don’t like it up ’em!
” It was a propaganda coup showing imagination, intellect, and political nous. ”
Are you even trying to be serious?
This is one account of what happened. If it is true it is deplorable, unless of course you believe it is justified in haranguing young children and employees because you dislike their father.
“……There are demonstrators outside bearing a banner, at least one of whom is wearing a mask, and police officers are there. One of the demonstrators harangues Rees-Mogg before turning on his children and shouting at them: ‘Your daddy is a totally horrible person. Lots of people don’t like your daddy, you know that? No, he’s probably not told you about that. Lots of people hate him.’ The same man then begins sarcastically interrogating the children’s nanny about her pay and conditions. When she tries to assure him the Rees-Moggs are good employers, he tells her she has Stockholm Syndrome.”
If so it is not behaviour I would admire, let alone describe as “beautiful”.
I always thought they were a Scottish Band, but they come from Ealing in West London. Why do they sing in a Scottish accent? Did they take elocution lessons? Anyhow I like this song and am working on it.
“White Lies – To Lose My Life”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGEjz12YLiM
Tony
“Why do they sing in a Scottish accent?”
Er… Tony. Do you know any Scottish people who didn’t go to private school and St Andrews Uni?
Pyotr Verzilov, now there’s a name. I wonder how he’s feeling today?
I thought he was killed weeks ago? The Russian state is losing it’s touch when it comes to silencing its’ dissenters.
US State is far more effective – though the UK is no slouch as I am sure Dr David Kelly could clarify. – I see his body was exhumed and cremated.
You misunderstand the method used. Poisoning is a message from the Russian state. Oppose the state and we will try to bump you off using poison. This traditional method of assassination has been used since 1453, when Dmitry Shemyaka, the Grand Duke of Moscow, was poisoned in a political assassination.
Looking at the history of Russian poisonings, only recently have they become incompetent, with botched attacks like Skripal’s, Kara-Murza. Politkovskaya who had to be shot.
Just a week ago, Kara-Murza hit back after he attended John McCain’s funeral as a pall bearer, personally selected by McCain in a snub to Putin and Trump’s love-in.
I think they should give up the poisoning lark as they are no longer able to carry out some of the simplest of tasks within espionage.
As you rightly say other nations’ agencies are far more effective.
You “see” Kelly has been cremated AFTER being exhumed? Really? I’m so glad you helped me with the mechanics of what the MSM has told you to say.
Of course, they poisoned Rasputin as well, didn’t they? Another botched poisoning. So they had to shoot him instead. Yes, it all adds up. Good spot Anders, LOL.
Tell me Anders, do you believe every single element of the Skripal story as presented by HMG? If so, do you find any of even in the slightest bit unlikely?
“as they are no longer able to carry out some of the simplest of tasks within espionage.”
Really?? But didn’t they interfere in the 2016 USA election? And cause that idiot Trump to be elected??
AND give a ton of DNC emails to Julian Assange????
(No, I don’t believe any of that shite, but you and your “no longer able to carry out some of the simplest of tasks within espionage” really does sound rather pathetic, given what the US “intelligence agencies” are accusing them of.)
‘I could have done it better’ she said, when referring to the expulsion of the Rohingya people, as she took to the stage at the World Economic Forum being held in Vietnam.
Aung San Suu Kyi defends verdict against Reuters journalists
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-45505482
I did not know about the jailing of the two journalists.
Any news of the film Nadira and Shahida intend to make?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/875400829/unwanted-the-plight-of-rohingya-muslims/posts
So Andrew Mitchell, MP son of Sir David Mitchell, MP and formerly of The Royal Tank Regt on Cyprus puts down a list of 30 Names (supplied no doubt by Bill Browder) using Parliamentary Privilege to accuse Russians of crimes and ask the Government to impose extra-legal sanctions.
That Andrew Mitchell lost a libel suit in Plebgate, was involved in a favours-for-donors scandal, and was involved in tax dodge schemes does not in any way deter him from assisting Pablo Miller (Royal Tank Regt) and Mark Urban (Royal Tank Regt) in this campaign to destroy any relations between UK and the largest nation in Europe which – as before 1912 offered the fastest-growing market in Europe for exporters.
It is as if the Kakistocracy running the UK want the country to be devastated in the next European conflict in a game of “Russian roulette” like the bored aristocracy of Oblomov. People like Mitchell are wonderful for Corbyn
Bonus! I looked up the meaning of “kakistocracy” (a system of government which is run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens) and also found “snollygoster” (one, especially a politician, who is guided by personal advantage rather than by consistent, respectable principles).
That’s an interesting theory. Is Mitchell a Remainer, by any chance?
Shouldn’t it be Khakistan?
sorry, Khakistocracy
James Corbett first introduced me to the concept of the “Kakistocracy” via this excellent Corbett Report – Meet The Kakistocracy – Tjeerd Andringa on The Corbett Report https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbKjbWaLt6I
Quote from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal#Suspects_and_attack_timeline
” If there has been significant commentary of this issue in the press/WP:RS (there hasn’t) it can be mentioned, but in such a way that the article only states what these various commentators have said, and doesn’t imply that there is some kind of unanswered difficulty in the official narrative. Endymion.12 (talk) 19:40, 12 September 2018 (UTC) ”
Does Endymion.12 work for MI5/MI6?
“unanswered difficulty in the official narrative”?
See my comment at foot of previous page.
Well, today should be interesting! Who will the Russians wheel out?
With Viktoria saying on Russian TV yesterday that Sergei has CCTV, HMG obvious response will be to release the footage.
If they are telling the truth of course….
RT has interviewed the two men and the interview is scheduled to go out today (Thursday).
One thing I am interested in is whether those are their real names, meaning, how they are known by family, friends, neighbours, colleagues.
The BBC were suggesting yesterday that the interview will be with actors. That is extremely unlikely. Has the BBC been totally Trumpified?
Theresa May’s “GRU” claim is groundless bullsh*t. What on earth is she doing, accusing a foreign power of carrying out a military attack on Britain, using men whom she says she “knows” are from its military intelligence service, on a mission that she “knows” was ordered from higher up, when all of this is absolute nonsense?
Who provided this “intelligence”? What “advice” did she receive from Alex Younger, head of MI6?
This should be a resignation issue.
But the weapons contracts have probably already been agreed, and an escalation in Syria is likely to add to the “Russians are lying monsters, and the British armed forces are heroes” propaganda.
Of course, most of the ex-SAS guys who do “security” work or who are employed as mercenaries by private military companies can be called “civilians”, and the same applies to ex-GRU guys who do similar work, but we shall see. I will be interested to hear what these men’s jobs are.
Here’s the RT interview (or first part of it):
‘‘We’re not agents’: UK’s suspects in Skripal case talk exclusively with RT’s editor-in-chief’:
https://www.rt.com/news/438350-petrov-boshirov-interview-simonyan/?
‘..“Well, we came there on March 2, then went to a railway station to see the timetable. We arrived in Salisbury on March 3 and tried to walk through the town, but we lasted for only half an hour because it was covered in snow,” Petrov said.
“Of course, we went there to see Stonehenge, Old Sarum, but we couldn’t do it because there was muddy slush everywhere. The town was covered by this slush. We got wet, took the nearest train and came back [to London].”
“We spent no more than an hour in Salisbury, mainly because of the lags between trains,” Boshirov said.“Maybe we did [approach] Skripal’s house, but we don’t know where is it located.”…..’
Well, at least they are allowed to make contact with RT, whilst the Skripals seem to be being kept incommunicado.
Id imagine Paul, that if they were the guilty parties, both would not have made an appearance, both would’ve been Skirpaled, (made to disappear) very quickly indeed by Putin.
On the otherhand, Putin producing them, to clear their names (unlike the non appearing Skripals, which only adds to the mounting suspicions) is a master stroke. We’re just two ordinary blokes taking in the scenery at the wrong time. Believable? Maybe.
The British government should be made to produce the Skripals in a similar fashion, if they’re to be taken seriously but they haven’t, and probably won’t what does that say about the Westminster government, or indeed their involvement in the affair?
@ Republicofscotland September 13, 2018 at 12:10
I certainly don’t buy their narrative of coming to see Stonehenge, definitely don’t look ‘Stonehengy’ types.
What I am coming to suspect is MI5/6 arranged with an agent in Russia to send two people on some ‘errand’, on a route they spelled out, and to keep them informed of who they sent, on what flight they would arrive on, names etc.
MI5/6 had set the agenda for the ‘errand’ to encompass areas, such as proximity to Skripal’s house (maybe even a meeting with Skripal – perhaps MI5/6 will still come up with a CCTV or other ‘evidence’ of their ‘meeting’).
They would be under surveillance all the time, but would not be aware they were really on a ‘Patsy’ trip.
Then the police/’Spooks’ pull the master-stroke (after the RT interview) and come up with ‘incontrovertible evidence’ (perhaps actual evidence) that they met the Skripals.
Case proven (not really, but from the standpoint of the government, MSM and public – they (therefore Putin, in their ‘logic’) were lying, therefore they must have poisoned the Skripals.
Nothing like a ridiculous government/MSM narrative to bring out the Inspector Clouseau in us.
SKRIPAL: Ha ha this really made my morning. Two innocent history buffs from Russia who decided to fly over to England, in early March to see Stonehenge but only get as far as Salisbury for two days running, including strolling past Skripal’s house by chance but go home again because it was cold and there was some melting snow on the ground. England in early March too cold for them . And they are Russians you say? (Do we know if they speak English BTW?)
What would be interesting now would be for the Security services to dig out, in cooperation with EU customs. CCTV from some of the many places they are said to have visited around Europe over the last year. FWIW, my personal view is that they are couriers .
I have to say, though I want Russia to be vindicated and May to have egg on her face, that I’m less than convinced by these two Russians. We can clearly see that the weather was not so bad that they couldn’t visit Stonehenge and from the CCTV that they made no attempt to visit the cathedral. I’m left thinking that they are almost certainly involved in some way.
Strange Russians that get wet and get put off by slush, following light snow the night before, and give up on an excursion after an hour. Cue the Putin appeasers going into overdrive.
I agree they sound unconvincing. Russians put off by snow?
That’ll be right! And why stay in an East London Hotel, if the purpose was to visit Salisbury?
The two Russians have now been interviewed, RT have released details of their visit to Salisbury. Too much slush apparently. LOL
They have admitted to being Russian. Surely sufficient grounds for conviction.
They’ve also admitted to the movements around Salisbury and London for 3 days.
ECHR, challenges GCHQ’s bulk interception of data.
“By a majority of five to two votes, the Strasbourg judges found that GCHQ’s bulk interception regime violated article 8 of the European convention on human rights, which guarantees privacy.”
I suppose after Brexit, the Westminster governmemt will be pleased that the ECHR will be out of the picture, and the more Draconian British bill of Rights will replace it.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/13/gchq-data-collection-violated-human-rights-strasbourg-court-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true
Still think they are Ukrainain, Craig?
They aren’t criminals, they’re civilians said Putin LOL. Perhaps he could tell us about the national service laws in Russia?
The two Russians claim they went through the customs gate one after the other.
The interviewer asks :
“Here is the picture that puzzled the whole world, Gatwick airport, you are leaving through a gate literally in the same times, almost the same second. How did it happen?” she asked.
They reply:
“We always go together through the same corridor and the same custom service officer or a policeman. One goes, the other waits. We went through the corridor together, we always [do it] together. How did it happen? It’s better to ask them [UK police],” Boshirov replied.
It will be interesting to hear the police explanation.
SKRIPAL: Read their last quoted para in Node’s post above: “We always go through the same corridor and customs service officer…..we always do it together.”. Is that in Gatwick specifically or generally when travelling? I assume he meant generally when travelling. So they travel a lot? Around Europe? Why? How? On a visa or some other
type of passportt. ? Maybe they could outline some of their other trips.?
I have to say I find this all highly unconvincing as I imagine do most people here, except the dedicated Russophiles.I still think however they were couriers rather than assassins. Is it possible this is a false trail laid by the Russians?
https://www.rt.com/news/438350-petrov-boshirov-interview-simonyan/
Here y’are. The lads…”…we went there to see Stonehenge, Old Sarum, ”
Next?!
@ Adam Ash September 13, 2018 at 12:38
Nearly as believable as our lot’s narrative.
Should I post or should I not? I thought long and decided now is the time to share my thoughts on our gentlemen soldiers/ conniving thugs. Enjoy.
If it was a plot by Putin to influence his vote in the election then the UK government, like a ignorant sucker, gave him what he wanted on a silver platter, by making a great song and dance about it before a full police investigation.
Since the better informed world hasn’t been taken in by the Syrian escapade and refuses to go with the along with the long planned phased take over of the ME – using the isil false flag – the perpetrators were looking to find another causus belli.
I mean who is ‘chemical weapons expert, Hamish de Bretton-Gordon’ apparently reported as working in Syria? Is he a White Helmeter like Le Mesurier? All these posh old aristo named spooky types with their private companies – i trust they don’t have offshore tax avoidance schemes and aren’t colluding in adventurism.
Now that The Syrian regime change/resource grab has failed
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/15/eastern-ghouta-syrian-regime-forces-break-into-key-town
The PR campaigners are refocusing their target. The Potty Bell numbties,
The (ex?) MI people, being creative in trying to target the runaway Labour popularity. The Obssesive Groaniad is all over along with the BBC and the MSM who have redoubled their attacks in recent days
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/14/corbynite-tribes-labour-leader-left
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon is a director of Doctors Under Fire and an adviser to the Union of Medical Care and Relief Organisations. A former soldier, he was commanding officer of the UK Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) Regiment and Nato’s Rapid Reaction CBRN Battalion.(Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/hamish-de-bretton-gordon
The Guardian fails to add in its description that he is also
‘Hamish de Bretton-Gordon is Chief Operating Office of SecureBio Ltd a commercial company offering CBRN Resilience, consultancy and deployable capabilities. Hamish set up SecureBio in 2011 after 23 years’ service in the British Army. SecureBio have an impressive list of blue chip clients globally and look after 90% of the World’s media operating in Syria from a CBRN resilience perspective. They are also response consultants for the CATLIN CBRN Insurance policy and run the unique Biological Immediate Action Service to mitigate biological threats and hoaxes. Hamish is helping and advising civilians in Syria on Chemical weapons matters on behalf of a number of NGOs and has deployed to the Region a number of times since the current conflict began.’
http://www.militaryspeakers.co.uk/speakers/hamish-de-bretton-gordon-obe/
Or is he ‘Hamish de Bretton-Gordon is Managing Director CBRN at Avon Protection, the recognized global market leader in respiratory protection system technology specializing primarily in Military, Law Enforcement, Firefighting, and Industrial. He is also a director of the NGO ‘Doctors Under Fire’.’
https://www.dsei.co.uk/speakers/hamish-de-bretton-gordon#/
‘Published on 22 Feb 2018 For the links in the video and much, much more, go to https://www.christianvoice.org.uk/ind…
BBC television news ran a piece bemoaning the bombardment of the rebel-held East Ghouta area of Damascus on Tuesday morning 20/02/2018. They interviewed Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, supposedly representing ‘Doctors Under Fire’. What he said could have been scripted by the UK’s Foreign Office. We investigate.’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqg34Bj4ZKY
Co’s house records the first company as dissolved.
Other directors were a
https://companycheck.co.uk/director/912851348/DR-ALLAN-JOHN-SYMS & https://companycheck.co.uk/director/913796400/MR-ANDREW-JOHN-DUCKWORTH
Back in 2016 he was telling us it was Isil who had chemical weapons and he could sell them the gas masks
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-16/islamic-state-have-limitless-amount-of-chemical-weapons/
He became MD of https://www.avon-rubber.com/Avon-news/New-strategic-partnership-announced-as-chemical-and-biological-counter-terrorism-and-warfare-expert-Hamish-de-Bretton-Gordon-OBE-joins-Avon-Protection.htm
Busy busy boy and now all these products get high profile TV advertising – kerrching.
He certainly had access to plenty of chems from Syria for making safe aboard a ship! U.S. cargo ship, the MV Cape Ray,
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/46970-destroying-syria-chemical-weapons.html
So what is his game? Here is a bit of a critical assessment
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/interventionswatch.wordpress.com/2015/04/28/hamish-de-bretton-gordon-calls-for-syria-no-fly-zone-in-the-guardian/amp/
He was just a major of a tank regiment in 1998
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12296817.Battle_to_control_2000_years_of_hatred/
Then a Colonel
Then a ‘contractor’
Start here – the MoD and FO outsourcing StratComm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/03/how-britain-funds-the-propaganda-war-against-isis-in-syria
Here is the half open can of worms
http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/British_involvement_in_Syria
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon’s role in collecting samples for MI6
In a comment on the SicSemperTyrannis blog, David Habakkuk, a retired television producer and historian of intelligence services, reveals an interesting discovery:-
“Also of interest are contributions to the ‘Brown Moses Blog’ by a former British Army CBRN expert called Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon. From his entry on the ‘Military Speakers’ website, and other material, it seems likely that he was instrumental in providing ‘environmental’ samples from incidents prior to Ghouta in which sarin was used to Porton Down. This has quite large implications. (See http://www.militaryspeakers.co.uk/speakers/hamish-de-bretton-gordon-obe/”
It’s clear that Bretton-Gordon (HBG) had a key role in the MI6 operation to collect samples for Porton Down that was reported in the Times and Telegraph during April 2013.
Another comment in the same thread by Martin Jerrett is of interest:-
“H de B Gordon, you mentioned, is more open and has been funded by UK government since 2012 at least to develop a network of people in Syria to work on collecting samples among other tasks. ”
Jerrett is an Arabic speaker who has had a string of short-term jobs with UK NGOs working in the Arab world. In 2012 he was coordinator of the Syria Development Network funded by the Asfari Foundation (also funds the Syria Campaign), so he’s likely to know HBG professionally and to be simply repeating in good faith what HBG has told him. The accounts filed at UK Companies House by HBG’s now defunct start-up companies (SecureBio founded in 2011, SecureBio Forensics founded in 2012) support Jerrett’s statement that some entity was funding HBG “since 2012 at least”, but indicate that the source of this funding was concealed behind nominee directors who made “loans” that were never repaid. If this was MI6, they were remarkably prescient in anticipating before any reports of alleged CW use in Syria that they would need to “develop a network of people in Syria to work on collecting samples”.’
Much like the other UK Military Intelligence players of the game
‘The EmpireExposed tweets note the parallels between the Paul Tilley / InCoStrat operation and the James Le Mesurier / White Helmets operation: “Both men attended Sandhurst, received Royal ‘honours’ and formed offshoot companies in late 2014 (InCoStrat & Mayday Rescue).” To this we can add the Hamish de Bretton-Gordon / Secure Bio operation, described below. Pmr9 (talk) 16:16, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
The manager (till 2015): Kevin Stratford-Wright
Kevin Stratford-Wright was a Lt-Colonel in the British Army till 2012, where his last position was as Head of Information Operations for the regional HQ in Afghanistan. His next job was in the Ministry of Defence as a civilian.’
Yup it is a deceitful web, a privatised war, using UK defence funds.
“If it was a plot by Putin to influence his vote in the election..”
Sorry, I stopped reading after this ridiculous line. The Russians are voting for Putin – among other things – for not being an adventurist. And when he gets 70 or 80% of the votes (both in the elections and the polls), why should he have to do such crazy things?
I make it clear that it that it is unlikely to be Putin, that is why it starts with ‘IF’.
Care to actually look at the rest of the facts?
Sorry, but to me -even if with an if – the sentence seems to suggest that there was such a possibility, and/but I believe strongly that it can be completely excluded. (But OK, I will read the whole message!).
Great collection of information! The involment in many shapes and the one-sidedness of this Hamish de Bretton Gordon fellow is baffling.
His wish for a no-flight zone gradually extended to all of Syria would no doubt be an excuse to the US-led coalition to start a big scale attack a la Libya*.
(You should absolutely repost this if a new thread on Syria comes up!).
*I used to say ”it always begins with military advisers”
but perhaps it nowadays just as often begins with no-fly zones?
Good research Dungroanin but we’re wasting our time with some on here. They do not want to know the facts and the truth of the matter.
Their explanation is fantastic. They just happened to be visiting Salisbury during the implementation of a UK False Flag operation against….. The Russian’s. All that way and they didn’t even see Stonehenge? Must have been put off the ticketing and CCTV arrangements around the site. These two clowns are military, because all Russians complete national service. Standby for more evidence from the UK Police and MI6 from the UK and now Russia.
More evidence? There hasn’t been any evidence thus far.
We always travel through the same lane, we wait and follow.The Airport photos must have been doctored, despite the pictures being taken at different angles, we support comrade Churkin’s point at the UN last week, that wasn’t us honest!
Craig, you and your sheeple look a bit ridiculous don’t you think?
I think you’ll find that Craig has, all along, accepted the possibility that it was the Russian state. It is the fact that the Brittsh government got ahead of the evidence that he was highlighting.
I notice neither of the accused assassins looked particularly dead, or blind, or otherwise disabled. Which is amazing considering how deadly Novichok is claimed to be and how they carelessly sloshed it about and disposed of it, leaving a trail of it everywhere they went. Not saying they’re completely innocent, but as fishy as their story is, the UK’s is in another league.
It may have escaped your notice, but the dilute agent didn’t kill the targets either, so you see not such a mystery. You may want look into the normal methods of administering such agents. Vapours mists and other methods rely on inhalation rather than a fairly stable liquid that is unlikely to become airborne quickly. So you see the fact the decontamination teams take extraordinary measures to protect themselves because they can. Wearing a pair of gloves rather than full body protection is reasonable for such an operation don’t you think? You seem to have swallowed the Russian theory that everyone within a few metres of such a substance will die instantly, no matter how dilute the liquid is or whether actual contact was made. Remember Georgi Markov? You do have to get poison into the system after all.
I’m not swallowing any story, especially not yours. We are told they weren’t handling dilute agent, it was lab grade. And for them to have so carelessly left a trail, meaning they were contaminated, even in their hotel room, it is highly likely they would have come into contact with the agent with their bare skin. Once on the hands, then the face follows quickly, and likely ingestion too if you must insist. Nerve agent will enter through the skin though, and doesn’t need to be ingested or inhaled to be deadly. A trace amount on the skin should kill easily if we are to believe its credentials. Speaking of dilution though, the samples taken were shown to be lab grade purity, samples which should have been even more dilute than when the Skripals came into contact with it.
There still are very possible alternative explanations. (”You are dead if you reveal who paid you to go to Salisbury”). One has to be realistic..And I have no problem with the slush, in principle. Say, wearing unsuitable footwear (or being careless), getting wet can be a serious thing on a cold day, and may be a very good reason to break off the trip.
Especially if you normally used to the heat of equatorial Russia. LoLz
The Russians are just as cold as other people. The right warm clothes help the Russians to endure severe frosts. They arrived in London, knowing the weather forecast +9 – + 11 C. In Moscow, this weather in the fall, they dressed correctly, but did not know that they were getting wet. Who got into this situation, knows that the only desire is to go home, drink hot coffee, and not look at the sights.