Boris Johnson Crosses the Rubicon: We Must React Now 409


Boris Johnson has crossed the Rubicon today by announcing the suspension of Parliament at this crucial time, no matter how many days the suspension lasts. The United Kingdom has found itself with the most right wing government in nearly two hundred years. I still find it hard to believe that Sajid Javid, Dominic Raab and Priti Patel hold great offices. Even that minority of those voting who put this Tory minority government in place did not expect that. Now that right wing coup is being doubled down on by the deliberate suspension of the Westminster parliament just as the most crucial and divisive issue in several generations is being resolved.

There is an irony here. Johnson has been able to take over without facing the electorate because of the polite constitutional fiction that it is the same Conservative government continuing and nothing has changed. Yet he justifies the prorogation of parliament by the argument that it is a new government and a new Queen’s Speech is thus needed. Johnson is of course famously in favour of having cake and eating it, but the chutzpah of this is breathtaking.

As countries slip to the far right, the failure of the more decent forces in society to unite and to react with sufficient vigour is crucial. Jo Swinson and others need to stop their caviling and get behind Jeremy Corbyn’s no confidence plans.

Here in Scotland, it ought to be a matter of deep shame if we do not now immediately move decisively to claim Independence. The SNP needs to stop prattling on as if keeping the UK in the EU was the priority. No. The priority is Independence, and Independence Now. If the leadership of the SNP want a referendum, they should move now to hold it within a few months, this year. Otherwise they should dissolve Holyrood and hold a Holyrood election with the declared aim of declaring Independence if there is a majority won for that. It is now inevitable that, if the SNP continues to shilly shally on Independence, a new party will arise in response to public opinion, to outflank and challenge them by prioritising Independence. Hopefully Johnson’s new move will finally kick the SNP to act NOW and make that unnecessary.


409 thoughts on “Boris Johnson Crosses the Rubicon: We Must React Now

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  • Jimmock

    Yes, Craig. If this hard right wing takeover doesn’t cause Scotland to grow a backbone nothing ever will, so Nicola must go for it now, using any and every means; referendum, Scottish parliamentary election, general election. Whatever is on the table should be used. Independence is NORMAL everywhere apart from Scotland. I cannot understand Scots who reject running our own affairs in case it makes them slightly less rich.

    • N_

      Independence is NORMAL everywhere apart from Scotland.” I think you should get out some more. Take a look at some of the other countries that are very close to Scotland.

  • Dungroanin

    Don’t Panic! As a deliberately provoked hue and cry rises and petitions start. A couple of thoughts. This is a reaction to the second brilliant move by Labour in as many weeks. The so-called anti-brexiteers are caught and need extracting from having to force an election to stop the hard brexit.

    (I totally agree with CM, if Sturgeon doesn’t quite bear her breast and storm for freedom and democracy now, then what is good for?)

    Bear with me – A coup at Empires centre implies a loss of control of long owned political forces by the perma-state aristos and bankers.

    ‘Normally’ in ‘far of countries’ such new politics is usurped by military forces controlled by the ancient martial family thugs and their empire barons. Post such coups the period to the next ‘free’ elections is the yardstick of the ‘democratic’ intent of the coup organisers usually after all unwanted leaders are imprisoned/exiled/killed and the political organisations are made illegal and disbanded with mass and deadly civil violence – basically mass disenfranchisement – then once again a hobsons choice of frontmen/women are presented to restore a ‘freely elected government’.

    The top-down status quo is thus always maintained via the artifice of the ‘left-right’ division of the populace.

    We aren’t Thailand, for example or even Catalonia. We are THE epicentre of the empire. The mandarins have their lives and estates here.

    They were threatened by continued membership of the EU – which they gatecrashed us into 50 years ago, knowing exactly where the EU was heading explicitly – for only one reason, to stop the EU developing as planned. All would have been done and dusted by March 29th by the government of the day be it Tory or NuLabInc or the other controlled politicians in some coalition post another sham election.

    BUT BUT BUT…They haven’t been able to do that while a Corbynite Labour Party, uncontrolled for the first time in half a century, looks certain to win and win big. No electoral skullduggery or vote stuffing regularly practiced in far off places can so punitively be implemented here – We still think we are free!

    So what is their plan?

    The Queen? She does what the Crown tells her to do.
    A national emergency? But we won’t have a crisis unless a hard brexit HAPPENS.
    And then that powerful bovine can be foisted upon the nation WITHOUT an election. A gnu.

    And voila! A hard brexit and no Corbyn in No 10! A victory from the jaws of defeat worthy of Ben Stokesian proportions.

    Here are a couple of brexit stories from Consortium and Off-G recently, which both seemed to grate with me in someway.
    The comments (i’ve been particularly busy on O-G) on both are revelatory to what is being deployed in this escape to victory final battle.

    https://off-guardian.org/2019/08/24/the-brexit-vote-and-psephology-of-the-outer-party/

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/08/26/brexit-the-madness-of-the-sovereign-individual/

  • Charles Maitland

    Absolutely Craig, this is the real test of hub the SNP, they need to take control of the situation now or I feel they never will.

  • Vivian O'Blivion

    Let’s get some sense of proportion on this “democratic outrage”. The period of proroguation includes the party conference season. The actual number of additional sitting days Westminster actually looses to proroguation is 4 or 5 (assuming Parliament doesn’t sit on Fridays). This is assuming that the mooted move to suspend party conference season was unsuccessful.
    Compare and contrast with May’s attempt to prevent a “meaningful vote” on her Brexit deal. Now THAT WAS a “democratic outrage”.

    • Dungroanin

      Proroguing without calling a general election is about as ‘un constitutional’ as it gets in our parliamentry system.

    • Spaull

      Exactly.

      Had he prorogued until after Brexit day, that would have been a genuine outrage. By proroguing until mid-October, and then giving Parliament the unmissable target of a Queen’s Speech to vote down, this feels more like Boris desperately screaming “For God’s sake get your act together and stop me”.

      Boris sees his role as the valiant loser. He can’t cope with all this winning.

  • M.J.

    I voted remain, but I respect the result of the referendum. MPs voted to abide by the result, and therefore they should not try to subvert it, as it seems to me that many have been trying to do for some time – by insisting on a deal before withdrawing (which the referendum question itself said nothing about), and then voting out the one that the EU agreed to, after a great deal of hard work.
    Therefore I support Boris’ decision, and I predict that:
    (a) the Queen will agree to his advice;
    (b) any legal or parliament challenges will come to nothing;
    (c) we (including Scotland) will cease to be members of the EU, come November,
    (d) there will be no second referendums, either on Brexit or Scottish independence.
    Now let’s wait and see what happens.

    • Dungroanin

      Me too i voted remain and long accepted that we would exit – but still be associated along the lines of various other countries like Norway preserving a large amount of cross border common standards by law – as was promised by the brexiteers campaign.

      They NEVER said or wrote on the side of a fleet of buses ‘NO DEAL’.

      If the Crown advises HMQ (and the obviously the Prince’s) to front this prorogation to impose a hard brexit and no general election – then it is simply a reversion to Charles 1.

      We may not get to Charles III.

      • M.J.

        The Queen’s just accepted Boris’ advice. So that’s (a) fulfilled.
        Sir John Major said that while the Queen’s advice couldn’t be challenged legally, Boris’ request could. But HM acted too swiftly for this to happen. So that’s (b).
        Barring any revolution, we’ll all (including Scotland) be out of the EU come November.
        I was talking to a young German earlier this year who said that the UK shouldn’t be rewarded for Brexit. I agreed, but he agreed with me that we should try to minimise the damage. Hopefully a damage limitation agreement with the EU can be worked out.

      • elkern

        Curious sympathetic Yank here, confused by quaint term “Crown”. I presume that “HMQ” = Her Majesty the Queen”, and I would have expected “the Crown” to refer to her, not to some set of advisors. Who are they, how are they selected, and what motivates them?

        And when will you guys learn to speak English??? (“that’s a joke, son”)

        To the point of the sub-thread (MJ, respect for results of Leave vote): We (USA & UK at least) are not in Normal Times. Large minorities in both countries have been terminally infected with Murdoch propaganda; they mindlessly support right-wing Bankster-owned politicians who have no qualms about bending & breaking “traditions” of legislative decency. It’s no longer obvious that those of opposed to the Reagan/Thatcher project (to claw back power from lower classes to upper) should respect “rules” that the Right regularly breaks.

        • Dungroanin

          The Crown, capital ‘C’ is not the crown she put on her head.

          It is a word that describes the ‘perma state’ or ‘aristocracy’ or the ‘real power’ that the ‘front office’ king/queen is the agreed face of.

          The Crown are the few hundreds of people who have ALWAYS held power of the country.

          They aren’t hidden. They are proud of who they are.

    • Spaull

      There is a major problem with your logic.

      May’s deal is a terrible deal; and it is only the only deal the EU will offer because of May’s self-inflicted red lines. The idea that the choices are limited to no deal, May’s deal, or no Brexit is simply false.

      Throughout, Corbyn has been very careful never to go against the referendum result. He has set out a very different approach to Brexit that he would follow.

      What is wrong with saying that the Tory approach to Brexit, and that we should instead try the Labour approach, with a vote on the final deal?

  • Courtenay Barnett

    Craig,

    Two points:-
    1. ” The SNP needs to stop prattling on as if keeping the UK in the EU was the priority. No. The priority is Independence, and Independence Now”
    The two are intertwined – for if Britain remained and uplifted the British economy ( i.e. inclusive of Scotland) then the mood for independence would decline – and – of course vice versa the opposite result. That seems to the people’s motivational driving force.

    2. ” Otherwise they should dissolve Holyrood and hold a Holyrood election with the declared aim of declaring Independence if there is a majority won for that.”

    Excellent point: test the democratic mood of the people at present – by all means. Why not wait until after the BREXIT issue is address – so that point 1 would have its dynamic impact play in to the people’s decision.

  • Ishmael

    A* Rubicon, I was going to say but dunno ?

    “The idea Johnson is breaking all the rules or, in words of Bercow, overseeing a ‘constitutional outrage’, isn’t true.
    As I wrote a few months ago, how Brexit is unfolding is deeply shaped by our absence of a proper constitution. The old norms are gone.” Bastani.

    Some truth in that perhaps. & one assumes everyone has their idea of proper.

  • steve brown

    I used to trot out the tired line that Scottish independence would leave us poor northerners at the mercy of rich southern tory bastards. But now I say – just declare independence and f*ck any idea of a referendum – they never end well – and see what the tory scumbags do then

  • JB

    “Right wing government” followed by a list of names of Jews and Indians- don’t make me laugh.
    Boris Johnson himself embodies the EU^2, with the Turks and Swiss lumped in, plus bonus points for his Jewish heritage.

    Is this what it has come to?

  • DiggerUK

    The arrogance of remainers who claim the majority votes to leave, were less valuable than theirs, continues to leave me dumbstruck. How dare you say that your vote is deserving, and that leavers votes are undeserving. The shit part of democracy is that sometimes you don’t get what you vote for…..and guess what…..tough.

    This oaf of a PM has turned the tables on the patronising bastards who make up the liberal elite; a liberal elite who have supported all the charlatans in parliament who have worked non stop to stymie the referendum result.
    This is the end result, a real danger that ‘The Oaf’, Javid, Patel, Raab, etc., will shaft us all for the next five years.

    And anybody in the Labour Party who think we can get the keys to No. 10 if we don’t clearly come out for Brexit, are dreaming…_

    • Xavi

      Many Labour Mps prefer a hard right Bozo government to one led by Jeremy Corbyn. It’s why they have been trying to pressurize Corbyn into adopting a position that dismisses the 2016 result.

    • Ishmael

      I think the binary camps you see people in is one intended functions of the vote, brought about by elites.

      Those who won are just the same elite, That shout whatever emotionally potent simplifications your captivated by. Divide & rule.

  • Doghouse

    Here’s a thought while Nicola appears to thumb her nose at those she professes to represent under the pretext of waiting for some kind of material change. What if her cunning plan to sneak up on the dastardly English post Brexit fails? There is a scenario where that might happen. Nobody knows what will happen post Brexit, particularly if they say they do. I certainly haven’t got a clue and tend to pay little heed to anyone who waxes righteous from either camp – nay any righteous camp.

    What if it all went swimmingly – chlorinated chicken aside? What if people didn’t take immediately to eating one another in the streets, disruption was minimal, business adapted and new business soon grew leaving only the usual sour grumblings? Not saying that will happen, I’m clueless, but it might. Sure she can then call a referendum pointing at how the EU referendum went in Scotland (if that is ever her intent), but heck, that’s a far weaker position than the current one of gross uncertainty is it not? As it stands, door still open, she and her fellows can claim anything they like without firm contradiction, and that, may not always be the case. What then?

  • steve brown

    You idiot. I really don’t know where to start or even if it’s worth responding to your gormless prattle. It’s the tories’ fault. They let loose the referendum, they worded it they couldn’t sort out their zombie party. You’re just a Cavalier and you’ll go the same way. Get stuffed

  • Harry Hopkins

    Agree with everything you say Craig but do you really think that Jo Swinson and others will stop their cavilling when a general election will result in the loss of their seats? Liberal Democrats proved their chameleon status in 2010 and don’t be surprised if they prop up Johnston’s government to save their own skins this time around. I’m afraid the greater good and self sacrifice are not common bedfellows with the majority of MPs.

    • Spaull

      I still think that one quite likely scenario is:

      1. Johnson proposes May’s deal, but with a border in the Irish Sea to avoid the backstop.
      2. The DUP storms off.
      3. The Lib Dems “reluctantly” agree to vote for the deal to avoid a no-deal scenario.
      4. They go into coalition with Boris to avoid the need for an immediate general election.

  • Ishmael

    Seems to me if you have a solid case, just put it to a vote. It can’t be that hard & certainly an arguable mandate to set one up ready.

  • N_

    This morning Boris Johnson asked the monarch to prorogue Parliament. When will she answer? Is she too busy bathing in asses’ milk, or waiting until Wall Street opens, or what?

    • Jones

      she will answer when someone tells her when and what to say, the most overpaid ventriloquist dummy in history.

  • Jones

    Useless politicians have failed the British people so Boris Johnson has thrown the future of the UK into the hands of the Queen (actually her advisers), the decision to prorogue parliament or not at such an important time cannot be neutral, lets see if she comes off the fence and earns her keep or proves to be just as useless as the politicians. We seem to have a lot of people running (read ruining) our country whose only talent is getting rich for being useless.

  • Republicofscotland

    Ruth Davidson and Alistair Jack, not doing interviews today.

    No mention of Johnson’s proroguing parliament from Willie Rennie or Richard Leonard…cue tumbleweed and a deafing silence.

  • David

    Why is everyone screaming this is undemocratic, its perfectly democratic to close parliament and start a new session. The timings a bit interesting admittedly, but if we are all being honest parliament has done everything it can to frustrate the will of the people. Even when given a chance to choose which option they would prefer they couldn’t agree on anything.

    As for deal or no deal, that wasn’t an option on the ballot paper, it was leave or remain. The deal struck with the EU has been rejected by all parties 3 times. The EU are clear that they will not reopen the negotiations, parliament ( both leave and remain MPs) have rejected the only deal on the table. Ergo… there is no deal to be had currently.

    From that position the country needs to move on, no deal will be a problem, but not a calamity.

    Leaders need to lead. Mr Corbyn is not a leader, he doesn’t appear to have a clear position on anything. He could have got his Government of national unity had he agreed to step aside, but we all see that all he wants is power.

    I don’t honestly know how I feel about Boris’s actions today, its probably a dangerous move, but it is ballsy and at least he has clearly declared his intensions re the EU. No one else has. Maybe hopefully we are now at the beginning of the end of this 3 year mess.

    As to Scottish independence – good luck, its long overdue, but your going to have to lose Sturgeon and get yourselves a leader that isn’t scared of losing.

      • Ishmael

        Have you seen what is planned for no deal ? Not a calamity for who?

        You think this person belive’s what he says? That their are not are obvious lies in the above? Ok. I’m not about to elucidate for you.

        This is James butler, @piercepenniless Mad Max Style. just a bit.

        “Last Sunday, details were leaked from Operation Yellowhammer, outlining the Civil Service’s ‘base scenario’ for a No Deal Brexit: port and border chaos is expected, along with food and fuel shortages and disruption to medical supplies; there is a ‘plan to evacuate the queen’ in case of civil unrest. Priti Patel, the home secretary, has promised the immediate end of free movement on the first day of a No Deal Brexit, threatening the status of EU nationals resident in Britain and British nationals abroad, but tickling the bellies of the Tory base. Lobbying from the backbenches, Iain Duncan Smith praised thinktank proposals to raise the state pension age to 75 as ‘removing barriers’ to work.”

        • John2o2o

          Oh I see Ishmael. Sorry, thank you for your clarification. I have no idea whether David believes what he says or not, but in the absence of any other information I have to assume that he does.

          He seems to think that it is funny that I thanked him for making his case. Not sure why.

          It’s more that it was apparently his opinion that no deal would not be a calamity rather than a statement of truth about no deal.

          We are all entitled to our opinions, even if they turn out to be incorrect.

          As for myself, I am not panicking as yet, about the prospect of no deal, though having Boris Johnson as prime minister certainly turns my stomach. I don’t think Atlantis is about to sink beneath the waves, but we will see.

          • Ishmael

            I just look at how “facts” are presented in it. He’s not saying I think. he’s saying this “is”. Or will be.

            Sounds like a political shill to me. Or very gullible & easily led in which case I don’t see why the certainty. & after seeing the actual plans, made by government? How can someone still think that?

            But whatever, no biggie.

    • Xavi

      Corbyn’s position has been consistent and crystal clear: a soft Brexit that would protect British jobs and workers rights. That was the only sensible course open to him after the referendum: to respect the result and try and build bridges between remainers and leavers, without embracing the Tory vision of a ‘bargain-basement Britain’ founded on tax cuts and xenophobia. And that’s exactly what he did.
      What ought he have done? Declare the result invalid and campaign impotently to have it overturned? He took the only realistic approach available to him

      • David

        Hi Xavi, Corbyns own team stated that they did badly in the EU elections because labours position was unclear to the voters. He is trying to sit on the fence and I understand when you say he is trying to bring leave and remain together, but its such a binary choice with either answer diametrically opposed to the other that there isn’t really a middle ground to be had.

        Maybe 3 years ago it might have been possible, but not today. There has been so much name calling and polarising of views in the last 3 years that peoples positions have become frighteningly entrenched. If you try and take the middle line in this type of environment you just get it from both sides.

        • Xavi

          He still sees the middle ground as the only sensible solution. From an electoral point of view too. Three quarters of Labour constituencies voted to Leave even if a majority of Labour members voted to stay. If he suddenly styles himself an out and out remainer he will not only sacrifice all credibility but also this unlikely chance of being able to turni back the tide in Britain from the neoliberalism and illegal wars of the Tories, New Labour and Lib Dems.

          • David

            Ishmael…. Leave or Remain. Its as binary as it gets !

            And do you really believe that the apocalypse will happen in the event of no deal ? Fair enough if you do, but I don’t.

            I’ve never seen a best case scenario come true, I’ve never seen a worst case scenario come true. Reality will be somewhere in the middle.

            They may end free movement on day one, probably reverse it on day two. But an end to free movement doesn’t mean the mass expulsion of EU citizens and if it does…. Ill join you on the barricades !

            Now I’ve answered you politely, and with respect to your differing view point, but I wont engage with you further if you continue to resort to name calling. You change no ones mind by insulting them.

    • Harry Hopkins

      I’m afraid your comments regarding Jeremy Corbyn only illustrate two things:- First, your complete ignorance of Labour’s position on Brexit and secondly, your dislike of Corbyn the man (fuelled obviously by years of negative British press) when to those of us who take the trouble to look closely at these things he is one of the very few principled leaders in this whole sorry dog’s breakfast. He will make a great Prime Minister and indeed is probably the only politician in Britain at the moment who can be called a ‘Statesman’.

      • David

        Hi Harry,

        I completely agree with your first point, I like many voters are very unclear on labours actual position. It does “appear” to keep changing.

        Your second point is incorrect, I don’t actually dislike Corbyn, I just don’t feel that he is a good leader and I do think that labour have some really good potential leaders. I might actually even vote for Tom Watson in a GE.

        • Harry Hopkins

          Hi David,
          Xavi explained Labour’s position in a nut shell—it never changes. The only reason it ‘appears’ to change is because of the media’s refusal to give Corbyn a fair hearing scared stiff as they are of a Corbyn led government.
          As for Tom Watson, did you make that comment to provoke? Tom Watson is a neo liberal, pro austerity Blairite who is yesterday’s man and will lose his position as deputy leader soon enough. Not only that but if he doesn’t resign from Labour he will be deselected come the next election. Labour is a democratic socialist party and Watson is an arch red Tory. If you really would like to see Watson as Labour leader it says all there is to say about your politics.

          • David

            Hi Harry,

            To provoke ? No genuinely not. Blairs policies were to the right of the right. I despise the man. Corbyns policies are to the left of the left and I cant get behind them either but as I stated earlier I don’t actually dislike him, I just don’t much care for his policies. He is targeting the wrong people to blame for the in equalities in this country, or maybe he isn’t but momentum definitely are.

            Boris is a buffoon, who is going to give tax cuts to the wrong people, me included, and will increase the inequality in this country and move our politics too far right he shouldn’t be giving handouts to the higher earners, Id be much happier to see a change in the tax system that lifts more low wage families out of the tax bracket completely. Tom Watson in comparison seems a moderate(ish) voice. Perhaps I have misunderstood him.

            In short Harry British politics has become an over polarised mess, a two party system that doesn’t work, doesn’t seem to represent any body’s views anymore and our parliament is populated by people who seem concerned for there own skin only, which in truth does appear to mirror our society currently. Maybe its always been this way or maybe its a result of the utter disaster that is Globalisation.

        • Xavi

          You are part of a tiny constituency if you are hungry for Tom Watson, David. Even his trumpets in the media are only using him to bring down Corbyn. The guy offers nothing except dishonesty.

        • Jo1

          Tom Watson has led the filthiest crusade ever against the leader of his own Party using the most despicable tactics, including poisonous smears. He has broken every rule in the book in the process by threatening to set up an alternative PLP, he’s threatened to set up a parallel Complaints Process (with himself as judge, jury and executioner) and, generally, has done everything in his power to put the boot into his own Party’s election prospects at every turn.

          He has private donors who tell only too clearly who Watson is serving! The man is a disgrace.

        • Harry Hopkins

          Hi David,
          Jeremy Corbyn has been a democratic socialist all his political career which by another name could read a ‘moral capitalist’. If you examine his record and take a look at current Labour policies you will see that far from being to ‘the left of left’ he is indeed somewhat in alignment or to the right of post war consensus politicians. You may be surprised to find that Corbyn would fit right in with past Tory grandees like Rab Butler and Harold Mcmillan who along with Attlee, Harold Wilson and co. were one nation consensus politicians who all believed in full employment, decent housing, good public services and a fully functioning welfare state and health system. All of which Corbyn espouses. According to the media and his enemies Corbyn is a Marxist, a communist, a Check spy, a Russian stooge and of course a friend to all the terror organisations you can think of. One wonders where he ever gets the time to tend his allotment! All part of the grand plan to convince the electorate not to back Corbyn by the very few of the richest who will have to pay for their keep if he occupies No. 10.
          As Nye Bevan said many years ago and it is ever more applicable today: “How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics in the twentieth century.”

          • David

            Hi Harry,

            Don’t worry I don’t believe Corbyn is actually any of those things. In regards to him meeting with IRA sympathisers etc which does seem to be one of the big hits the media take at him, my view on that is that you don’t solve problems with violence, you solve them by talking to people, even if those people are distasteful to you. Agreement is a compromise, not a great big stick.

            Communist is a funny one in truth, I guess that’s used as people automatically assume communism is Russia or China’s political system. The only thing communist about either of those nations is the title. Real communism, like real capitalism does or at least should work for everyone. Sadly we have only ever seen very very corrupted versions of either system.

            I think if I’m honest with myself that my major objection to Corbyn is that he intends to come after people like me, yet I can only just afford my bills like most other people, if he takes a bigger chunk out of earnings with tax I honestly don’t know what we as a family would do. I don’t want to hear him making plans to smash people who have been fortunate enough to get their own home, or smash SME business’s most of whom only just about manage do keep the doors open every month. I feel like me and people like me are an easy target for him, without him really taking the time to understand. I would be much more supportive of him if he intended to deal with the massive tax evasion that happens in this country, I don’t earn enough to play tax games. The big global that move money around to avoid paying their fair share, but still want to enjoy the benefits of operating in nation like ours, should be his target. Simplifying the tax system so that a) everyone can understand it and b) removing all these so called “grey” areas, which are neither legal nor illegal.

            He should be talking about getting people on low incomes completely out of the tax system, he should be talking about ending tuition fees, and actually mean it this time rather than just election jiggery pokery, but at the same time he needs to show the country that we can actually afford these things without borrowing more and more and more.

            I don’t hear any of this, I just hear more of the them and us rhetoric that now dominates British politics. We need them and us to be working together. Jeremy just doesn’t appear to have the leadership abilities to make this happen. It seems that he is totally bound by the conventions of the labour party membership whims. If he really wants to get people on board he first really needs to get a grip of his own party and tell them the direction we are heading rather than the other way round.

            Im guessing we sit on opposite sides of the political fence so will never truly agree, but thank you for the informed discussion today. Its been both enlightening and entertaining.

          • Harry Hopkins

            Hi David,
            Thanks for your thoughtful and lengthy reply. Having read it I’m convinced that you and your family will be much, much better off with a Corbyn led government. Your antipathy towards him is groundless unless you are in the top 3-4% of the population whose main preoccupation is capital accrual and tax evasion/avoidance.
            May I suggest that you get a copy of Labour’s last election manifesto and read it fully: you will have the curtain lifted from your eyes. If you get your political information from any of the mainstream papers and broadcasters you are being misled because all of them–(yes, including the so called left Guardian)–are mouthpieces of the establishment who are wedded to a no change society.
            Speaking personally, I myself am a retired businessman with wealth and assets that put me in the top ten per cent of wealth in this country. Even I am not a target for Corbyn with regard to taxation but even if I were I’m one of those rare individuals who doesn’t mind paying tax as I see it as a measure of a civilised society.
            Corbyn is pledged to address climate change, food banks, homelessness, zero hour contracts, investment in infrastructure, investing in public services and the NHS, a more equal society and much much more besides. But don’t take my word for it –read the manifesto! you can find it here:
            https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/

      • DiggerUK

        Harry, the position that Corbyn finds himself in is of his own making. The main problem is that he refuses to stand up against that right wing rump in the Labour Party who are determined to eviscerate the referendum result.
        The parliamentary Labour Party voted for article 50, and the party manifesto was to support the referendum result, but then he tries to downplay that with his statements. He needs to get a pair and stand up for the referendum result. That is what the public want to hear.

        On the stump in the recent council elections, the only question anybody asked on their doorstep was….Brexit, Brexit, Brexit. Having no clear position cost us.

        All this waffle about NoDeal is a smokescreen. Even if there was a deal by November 1st, there would still be years of negotiations to follow, and Murray knows that to be the case…_

  • Charles Maitland

    Absolutely Craig, this is the real test of the SNP, they need to take control of the situation now or I feel they never will.

  • Alyson

    Corbyn should obtain legal advice on making a counter request of the Queen, to call for Boris to resign, on the basis of the risk he poses to the unity of the United Kingdom, and the danger of harm to its citizens

      • Alyson

        Perhaps. But the splitting of the UK would not be on the agenda if democratic accountability was practised. And Corbyn has a Brexit plan which would not cause harm. It might not satisfy Trump, or the offshore billionaire tax avoiders, but it would meet the needs of the British people for responsible governance – and even Indyref2 supporters might reconsider if the harm which is currently intended was averted.

  • anthony powell

    It’s time for democracy to be uncancelled. In fact I just bought the domain name. We have the internet now, and uncancelling a bad program just takes the “uncancel” button to be pressed by a good number of worthy citizens for the ball to get seriously rolling.

  • michael norton

    Mr Boris Johnson has made history in involving the Monarchy in Britain’s politics.

    Queen Elizabeth and the rest of the Royal Family are supposed to remain impartial, though now it has been made clear head of the Monarchy does indeed back Hard Brexit

    A new Queen’s speech will take place on October 14.

    The move today has sent a tsunami of condemnation Mr Johnson’s way.

    Mr Corbyn himself, who bizarrely attempted his own Government coup by begging other leaders to make him Prime Minister, said: “Boris Johnson’s attempt to suspend parliament to avoid scrutiny of his plans for a reckless No Deal Brexit is an outrage and a threat to our democracy.

    “Labour will work across Parliament to hold the government to account and prevent a disastrous No Deal.”

    SNP leader Nicola Surgeon said: “Bring it on”.

    • Deb O'Nair

      “Mr Corbyn himself, who bizarrely attempted his own Government coup by begging other leaders to make him Prime Minister”

      Not quite, as I’m sure you well know. Corbyn, as leader of the official opposition, put forward a perfectly legitimate and constitutionally appropriate suggestion to ensure that the country was not subjected to a national disaster. He made it very clear his premiership would be solely to get an extension to A50 and then call a GE. As opposed to the tactics of The Pig That Walks On Two Legs, who has positioned himself alongside Hitler, Mussolini and Franco.

  • Deb O'Nair

    Jo Swinson has written to HMQ requesting an urgent meeting. Is the leader of the 4th largest party, commanding 14 MPs including 2 defectors, some sort of delusional megalomaniac?

  • Jones

    parliament taking back control has now become parliament losing control, the dictatorship now in full swing.

  • Deb O'Nair

    Whilst I agree that the Scottish have the right to self-determination the UK, of which Scotland is still a part, is currently facing the most severe crises since WW2. Without wishing to veer off into hyperbole this crises effects Welsh, Irish, English as well as Scots. It is time for people of all political creeds to unite against the fascist tyranny that is currently usurping all power into a small clique of oligarch puppets. I find it a little distasteful that so many of the comments think the current crises is good for Scottish independence – this is a very short term viewpoint.

  • Brian

    100% agreed Craig. What reason can the SNP and the First Minister now have for not going for a vote or as you say, election? “It is better to have loved and lost” I feel the same of a vote. We have to attempt to go for Indy now and forget about the basket case down south.
    What reason can you see for NS not going for a vote now?

    • Ishmael

      “forget about the basket case down south”.

      “indy” is not a rocket ship to an only Scottish planet.

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