Coronavirus – Time for an Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants 184


My second podcast discusses some of the less considered effects of the coronavirus lockdown, and the need for an alternative to predatory capitalism in the aftermath. Again, just me chatting to you.

There is no intention these podcasts will replace written articles or that there will be less articles. I am merely trying out an additional kind of communication. I appreciate some people do not like watching videos, or only like watching professionally produced videos. Well, nobody is forcing you to watch. I should be grateful if comments could focus on the content.

——————————————

Unlike our adversaries including the Integrity Initiative, the 77th Brigade, Bellingcat, the Atlantic Council and hundreds of other warmongering propaganda operations, this blog has no source of state, corporate or institutional finance whatsoever. It runs entirely on voluntary subscriptions from its readers – many of whom do not necessarily agree with the every article, but welcome the alternative voice, insider information and debate.

Subscriptions to keep this blog going are gratefully received.

Choose subscription amount from dropdown box:

Recurring Donations



 

Paypal address for one-off donations: [email protected]

Alternatively:

Account name
MURRAY CJ
Account number 3 2 1 5 0 9 6 2
Sort code 6 0 – 4 0 – 0 5
IBAN GB98NWBK60400532150962
BIC NWBKGB2L
Bank address Natwest, PO Box 414, 38 Strand, London, WC2H 5JB

Subscriptions are still preferred to donations as I can’t run the blog without some certainty of future income, but I understand why some people prefer not to commit to that.


Allowed HTML - you can use: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

184 thoughts on “Coronavirus – Time for an Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants

1 2 3
    • Rose

      Gosh is it? I was thinking in a wider context outside of words like neo liberal. Don’t you think we all depend on one another at a basic level? For instance each time we board an aircraft or get on a train, eat food in a restaurant or drink the water from our taps. I want to live in the kind of society where those who deliver our services at whatever level are properly paid and can provide for their families.

      • Rose

        This comment is in response to Jack at 18.21.
        Talk about living in Alice in Wonderland. Carry on dreamin’

  • mike

    BSE, CJD, mad cow disease, foot and mouth disease, badgers and bovine TB….general food poisoning……and now a global pandemic from eating Pangolins and bats…..leading to the crashing of the world’s economy and death.

    Might I venture to posit the efficacy of a vegan diet…..?

    • Vivian O'Blivion

      People eating bats is largely bogus. Bats are amazing creatures, the only flying mammal with an incredible metabolic rate that is necessitated by flying, tiny let they can live to 40 years. Bats have an immune system from another planet. If you were looking for the fountain of youth, bats would be a good place to start, but only if you were wearing full NBC gear.
      Cara Brooks explains the details.
      https://whowhatwhy.org/2020/03/27/bats-breeding-ground-for-killer-viruses/
      Fascinating stuff.
      Your main point may be correct. Personally I only go as far as vegetarianism as I’m not convinced vegan dairy alternatives have less of an environmental footprint than dairy (and in many cases the footprint for vegan alternatives is likely greater).

    • Rob+Royston

      As long as there are borders there will be illegal immigrants. Before we joined the EU, in the dark days of the Heath government, Brits would get sent by agencies in London to large sites on the continent where they were paid, cash in hand, in Deutchmarks, Guilders or whatever. It was like a United Nations of people who only had in common the skills that the employer needed to get the work done. Brexit will bring these days back as spirited Brits will get up and go if they see better outcomes in doing so.
      When the Highland Lairds cleared the people off to Canada, they had them indentured to farms so that they could take their fares off their wages. In the early 20th century most people would land in Canada, then slip away and cross into the US where they had contacts in places like the Detroit motor industry.

  • Doctor+K

    These videos do not appear, there is just a blank space
    can you put them on YouTube? I don’t have any trouble there.

  • Marlelc

    I just like all you have to say, but I have had an earworm of ‘there’s no business like show business for over 24 hours now…can’t stop belting it out! No more music, please 🙂

  • Minority Of One

    A couple of years ago our GP clinic shut down, so we had to move. The new clinic still insisted on seeing the passport of all family members, plus two documents proving our address, plus they insisted I come for an interview. Which consisted of a nurse going through my application form with me – seemed to be checking I was not lying.
    I cannot help but think we are moving from ‘Children of Men’ being a good film to reality.

  • Clark

    Please supply a simple link as well as the embedded video; something about my system prevents the embedding from working, so I have to find the video location by examining the source code of the page.

    • craig Post author

      Hi Clark,

      If you just right click on the embedded video it gives you the url, unless that’s also not working for you?

      • Clark

        That doesn’t work for me. I think that only works if the “player” loads, whereas I just have a blank space.

        • pete

          U-block says there are 11 trackers on mine: craigmurray.org.uk doubleclick.net facebook.com fonts.googleapis.com google-analytics.com gravatar.com linkedin.com paypalobjects.com pinterest.com statcounter.com w.org youtube.com ytimg.com
          You may have to play whitelist roulette to get the site to work on your browser. or try a different browser.

          [ Mod: You need to whitelist craigmurray.org.uk and youtube.com (or at least modify your browser privacy settings to ‘trust’ them temporarily). ]

  • Mark+in+Mayenne

    Glad to read that you will be continuing your written posts. Keep up the good work.

  • djm

    “Coronavirus – Time for an Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants”

    Absolutely.

    What better way to ensure Our International Health Service is permanently over-run & under-funded.

    A cultural Marxists wet dream.

    • Clark

      When CoVID-19 overwhelms a healthcare system it does so by a factor of between 5 and 20. The tiny proportion of illegal immigrants in the population are going to be utterly insignificant.

      On the other hand, the only thing proven to suppresses CoVID-19 is rigorous contact tracing; a tiny handful hiding from identification will blow a hole right through this.

      Not that this is a practical, rational argument whereas djm made an ideological argument. Someone is wrong on the Internet?

      • Nick

        That clark is something i cannot understand. Contact tracing in China and South Korea was used(although at different speed of rollout) and has been hailed as essential to track the virus and keep control of it. As well as to look into how many of those infected have immunity now. So why despite 2 months notice,did the west do nothing? While i feel this virus has a low mortality rate,what Boris and his cmo have done amounts to criminal negligence.

      • djm

        The tiny proportion of illegal immigrants in the population are going to be utterly insignificant.

        Tiny

        So, you’re OK with the taxpayer billing you for the cost of hosting ?

        I’ll wait

        • Clark

          You prefer a higher risk of death, for everyone, not just you. You prefer that to slightly increased taxes?

    • andyoldlabour

      djm,

      It is indeed an unrealistic, juvenile idea, that open borders are an acceptable concept. I find it a disgusting idea, particularly given the spread of this latest Coronavirus. Our infrastructure (particularly in the South of England), schools, medical facilities, police, fire services are stretched to breaking point. There is people trafficking on a huge scale.

  • Willie

    Just had my post on a local blog pulled.

    Asking questions about how in mid February 2020 HM Government were running full page adverts to tell us that they and the NHS were well prepared for the virus and how folks could help by sneezing and coughing into a tissue, disposing of same and washing hands whilst all the while they were spreading the virus to develop herd immunity and protect the economy.

    Asking question about why the government were issuing this advice and pursuing a strategy of virus spread when in January 2020 they classified COVID 19 as an High Consequence Infectious Disease ( or HCID)

    Asking how on the 16th March 2020:there was a dramatic about turn in policy to move to local down to stop the spread and avoid the potential for a tidal wave of many hundreds of thousands of deaths in a very short et space of time.

    Concomitantly with COVID 19 being down graded on the 19th March 2020 to a non HCID ( with an overall mortality of around 1%) as opposed to a HCID ( with a mortality of between 10% and 60%) questioning what would have been the result on our populace had it been a high mortality disease.

    This is the big question no one is asking.

    But to quote Stanley Johnson who nearly lost his son –

    “ To use that American expression, he almost took one for the team. We have got to make sure we play the game properly now,”

    Yes, I think Mr Johnson Snr’s statement about now needing to playi the game properly and taking the pandemic seriously says it all.

    • Deb O'Nair

      “But to quote Stanley Johnson who nearly lost his son”

      A few days bed rest (during which he was conscious, talking and eating) is hardly being at deaths door. The intensive care scam was to get Boris out of the media and public firing line and garner sympathy for the exact points you make. Johnson and his gang of loonies, coupled with a decade of Tory cuts have turned a health crisis into a national disaster.

  • James

    Of course there should be an amnesty for `illegal immigrants’ – moving to Britain (or indeed anywhere else) shouldn’t be illegal in the first place.

    But I don’t really see what Coronavirus has to do with this – putting up laws to prevent people from moving where they want is just plain wrong, Coronavirus or no Coronavirus.

    I didn’t watch the movie – videos don’t work for me.

    • craig Post author

      Well don’t make stupid comments like “I don’t really see what Coronavirus has to do with this” if you haven’t watched the video.

    • pete

      Poor James, unaware of Craig’s talking points, I didn’t make notes as he spoke but based on my recollection of what he said the talking points are:

      Amnesty for illegal immigrants, evidence for which was that higher than recorded population numbers based on specific area fecal samples suggests the population is greater than that officially registered.

      Simplifying the registrations process to gain access for a child to a school, evidence of living locally should be all that’s needed.

      Simplifying the registration process to register with a GP, evidence of living within the district of a GP surgery should be all that’s required.

      Being allowed to make bank cash withdrawals from your own account without a hassle. No need for a bank to ask questions if it is your own money.

      In addition Craig covered the “black” economy, mental health and the lock-down exit strategy, that’s all I remember. Hope I havn’t oversimplified what Craig spoke about.

      My own curiosity was aroused by the notion of fecal recognition, my seach on Google caused the seach engine to want to corect this to facial recognition, my advice, accept no substitutes.

      Clearly I have too much time on my hands, take it away James.

      • James

        pete – umm thanks. The internet connection here is rubbish – so watching a movie is most definitely out of the question. We used to be able to do this (just about) before Coronavirus (when everybody starting working from home – and using the internet). One of the disadvantages of living next to a forest, beyond the back of beyond – we knew that we couldn’t expect good internet when we moved here.

        I only saw the headline – and I consider the immigration policy to be somewhat ugly irrespective of Coronavirus. It should be changed basically because it is fundamentally immoral (and not because of the way that Coronavirus is impacting disproportionately on illegal immigrants – important though that may be).

        Thanks for the summary – excellent points – and umm yes – this business about fecal samples arouses my curiousity too! I wonder who is collecting them and analysing them?

        • Oliver Williams

          I understood that it was not the actual type of material but the quantity in the sewage system – as attested to by sewage companies of Craig’s acquaintance – that indicated that more people lived in an area than was quantified by official documents. Hence an estimate that certain areas had a proportion of people not registered.
          One major reason for the amnesty would be that these people would be able to self-isolate as do we all without having to somehow scrape a living and thereby need to mix with people more.
          Another reason given was the density of the living conditions which would be more propice to the virus transmission.
          We are in it all together this time. Your-heath-is-my-health is the way of reducing the virus’ impact and this goes for everyone.

  • roddy mackenzie

    Don’t want videos – I want to pore over your posts without asking partner/kids if I can turn radio/tv down.
    Situation at this time makes this even more of a problem.

  • craig Post author

    Listen folks – I do not care if you, personally, do not like videos. At least 5,000 people watched the first podcast. Nobody is forcing you to watch. If you don’t like videos, just don’t watch it. It serves no purpose for you to tell me you don’t like videos.

    It is Good Friday. Hot Cross Buns are available in the shops. Do you go up to the staff to tell them you don’t like hot cross buns so you are not getting any?

    It takes me only about 5 minutes to make and publish podcast in addition to the time taken talking to camera. It is not going to have any effect on the quantity of written articles.

    • Coolbiker

      For what it’s worth Craig, I personally like the videos, as I can be listening whilst pottering around , much more interesting and informative than listening to any radio station.

    • AAMVN

      Personally – I really like the addition of regular podcasts. I’m reading a lot these days and sometimes it’s nice to listen rather than read. This is also a huge improvement in technical factors and coherence from yesterday. [And yesterday was already acceptable].

      I especially appreciate the points on mental health. If ignored this could be deadly too.

    • Ralph

      How long is it now that you have wanted an amnesty for ILLEGALS, Craig? Start with scotland, get ALL the ILlegal immigrants there…and keep them there – how many have you got in YOUR home: how many are YOU supporting, Craig? Charity begins at home, RIGHT, Craig?

    • roddy mackenzie

      Craig,
      As a monthly subscriber, am I not allowed to state my preference? I’m not trying to force you to do anything, I just prefer the written word rather than a video. I find it is too easy to be distracted by a video in the house, but I can really switch off everything else when reading the articles (my wife would vouch for this).
      Surely I can let you know what I prefer? I love the work you do and will still subscribe whatever format you use. And, if my local Co-op was serving up Hot Cross Buns with a sugar-coated topping,I would ask them if they had the original product. Just sayin!
      Cheers

    • Ort

      But, but… I don’t wear suspenders! Can’t stand the sight of ’em! I only wear belts, dontcha see? 😉

  • Cubby

    About to watch the video but disappointed that your other Fair Isle jumper is not on display. Hope you didn’t shrink it in the wash. ?????

    • Steeve Greene

      No kidding, I thought we were going to get a tour of Craig’s sweater collection as a bonus.

  • Willie

    Good stuff Craig. Video commentaries can contain every bit as much information as the written word and some folks will prefer seeing and hearing the spoken word, whilst others will not.h

    Quite why anyone would come on and bleat that they don’t like videos I don’t know. But there is no accounting for choice and as you say they don’t need to watch it.

    Talking about choice I broke down in my wife’s car the other night. Reaching for the Greenflag info card kept in the sun visor I telephoned the emergency help number only to be told that I now needed to notify a rescue through the Greenflag app.

    So off to the Playstore to download the app only to find that my smart phone wasn’t so smart because it dint have enough space. So then off to uninstall apps and clear memory before repeating the download process – only to then find that I couldn’t get the thing to work.

    But after getting back on the phone and trying a few other non rescue options I got through to someone who did a very good job taking my details and the system thereafter getting a local recovery firm out only ten minutes thereafter.

    And the point is I can well understand how people form choices about how they want to communicate. For some only semaphore or the written word on vellum will do.

    Happy Easter to all your readers. That they comment they care. And maybe for some the truth is they don’t like burning all their mobile data on video.

    Keep up the good work Sir.

  • Oliver Williams

    Excellent content. Thanks for making the effort.
    A simple comment on the height of your camera, I put books under the laptop so that the camera is almost level with my eyeline.
    Also, if you put a small window of your video just beneath the camera, then you tend to look more at the camera.
    Thanks again. It is always informative to hear your thoughts.

  • Willie

    Oh and on the matter of undocumented migrants the US apparently has around 11,000,000 who cannot for residency reasons go anyway near a doctor.

    Friggin great that in the holocaust of an epidemic having so many people unable to secure medical services. But of course in the US it’s worse again with 27,000,000 Americans with no health cover and maybe another 100,000,000 with inadequate cover.

    But for anyone thinking the U.K. is so much better let them reflect that the NHS computers are used by the Border Agency and Home Office to detect undocumented foreigners her – and to deny them medical access. All part of the Conservative party policy of the Hostile Environment maybe we will get the death levels we deserve because of this UKs insane neo-Nazi policies against immigrants.

  • Xavi

    Would be great if in the future you could get these podcasts onto some platform like spotify or iTunes so people can download them and listen to them on the commute, etc.

    I too fear we are going to be punished for this bailout with another decade or more of savage austerity We know the entire media and a centrist Lanour party would back that all the way, as they did post-2010.

    The only thing that might dissuade the Tories is a wish to retain the red wall seats they won in December. There again, they’d probably figure “2nd referendum” Starmer has no chance of winning those seats back no matter what they do.

    The outlook is grim.

  • Jeannie Mackenzie

    Could you publish transcripts of podcasts for those of us who are readers rather than listeners?

  • FranzB

    On an amnesty for illegal immigrants, maybe someone should ask them what they want. Priti Patel is the Home Secretary and Keir Starmer is the leader of the opposition, both out and out reactionaries. So once again, whatever the question, Scottish independence is the answer.

    On the NHS, the squeeze on budgets will continue to ‘nudge’ more and more people into the arms of private health provision, which will be accelerated when some sort of trade deal is done with the USA. The current lock down has led to the cancellation of all sorts of health services such as routine operations. Lots of those people affected will be swept up by private hospitals.

    I think the first reported ‘superspreader’ returned to England from Singapore via a ski lodge in France at the end of January. The lockdown started on March 24th, whereas the peak in reported cases in Italy was on March 21st. So I imagine quite a lot of people already have covid19. Post lockdown, what should happen is those reporting ill wtih covid19 should be isolated properly, and there should be rigorous contact tracing – none of which will happen.

  • Rose

    Well I managed to watch it without a problem. Thank you Craig what you said about the need for illegal immigrants to be granted some amnesty was not only humane and compassionate, but sensible too. Surely those that run things cannot be so stupid as to think that they have any more immunity than the rest of us. The people you describe working in the black economy must be brought into the fold for the sake of us all and as you point out, would make even more of a contribution to civil society through payment of taxes.

    Of course every child must be educated and given a chance to develop their full potential regardless of their background. Again we would all benefit. I wonder how many future scientists, mathematicians, technicians would emerge from more enlightened educational and social policies as was envisaged in the 1944 Education Act. It’s just so blooming obvious.

    Yes I too have noticed a different atmosphere in the country I was born and grew up in the the 1940s. OK it wasn’t all cakes and ale and there were aspects of growing up then which I am not sorry have changed. But you are right about the presumption of trust in one another. We did not regard others as being untrustworthy and suspicious as a matter of course. That default mode has changed.It feels “foreign” somehow – ie alien to what I remember was the way we behaved towards one another.

    You posed the question why this has happened. I would suggest it is because those in charge now come from a section of society who have got to where they are by lusting and thrusting, suspecting everyone else of perfidy (including those like them – witness the in-fighting amongst the powerful) and having colossal egos which regard other people as tools for their own advancement. They don’t a moral principle between them and absolutely no concept of humility or self-questioning.

    Thanks for the podcast Craig. I enjoyed it – though could I suggest you keep your voice up? I strained to hear some of it towards the end. What was it you were off to do?

  • Jack

    I simply do not understand this position, inequality and poverty is rising in the west and and in that situation call for millions to be admitted to the population. I think it is a dangerous idea for various reasons.

    • Rose

      Hello Jack. I would argue that the starting point of any political debate should be an acknowledgement of our common humanity. Whether we like it or not, we are all connected and co-dependent. This fact can be observed wherever you look in nature. This means we must “trust” in one another at a basic level. In my experience that taken for granted assumption that most folk we meet are of good will and supportive of the common weal, is less true now than it used to be. Fear and suspicion of others has been encouraged by elements of the ruling class and it ain’t good.

      • Jack

        Rose

        That is the globalization/neoliberal view that is so dangerous and which result, led to Brexit.

  • DunGroanin

    Haven’t gone through video yet , but just posted this on previous thread as a reply but relevant here I think? Any opinions?

    It is estimated in this first wave according to current lockdown regime:

    ‘the total infections and deaths in the UK were limited to 2.43 million and 33.8 thousand; the peak time of healthcare demand was due to the 65th day (April 11th), where it needs hospital beds for 25.3 thousand severe and critical cases.’
    Feasibility of Controlling COVID-19 Outbreaks in the UK by Rolling Interventions | medRxiv
    ………..

    Further strategy on keeping herd immunity going will be along the lines of :

    Adaptive cyclic exit strategies from lockdown to suppress COVID-19 and allow economic activity | medRxiv
    We use mathematical models to show that a cyclic schedule of 4-day work and 10-day lockdown, or similar variants that can be adapted in response to epidemiological observations, can in certain conditions suppress the epidemic while providing part-time employment. The cycle reduces the reproduction number R by a combination of reduced exposure time and a resonance effect where those infected during work days reach peak infectiousness during lockdown days. Throughout, full epidemiological measures need to continue including hygiene, physical distancing and extensive testing and contact tracing. Adaptive work-lockdown cycles can provide epidemic control and offer predictability to many economic sectors.

  • Pooh

    Craig Murray

    Thank you very much.

    “Again, just me chatting to you.”

    And you are doing it very well.

    “I appreciate some people do not like watching videos, or only like watching professionally produced videos. Well, nobody is forcing you to watch. I should be grateful if comments could focus on the content.”

    I understand and agree.

    Suppose immigration brings about demographic changes. What will the consequences be of an influx into Scotland of a large number of hard working people who have little interest in Scottish independence, history and culture, and whose group interests are incompatible with those of the indigenous population?

    In due course, will such an amnesty give illegal immigrants the right to vote, or would they have just the right to carry on with their good work with no say in how they are governed? What will their legal status be?

    Thank you once again. Do have a good Good Friday.

  • Tatyana

    Many thanks, Mr. Murray! I really liked the video, it’s much easier to understand your position when it’s accompanied by your live emotions.

    The problem of migrants is acute in my country too. All international transport is closed and people cannot even return to their homeland. Having lost their jobs and income, these people have little choice: rob in the streets or die. They must be supported by the state to prevent any of those options from happening.

    Also, I agree with your position on distrust. Even just being on the forum and commenting already makes it clear how distrustful people are of each other. The huge amount of data that you’re required to bring in organizations, maybe, comes initially from the society’s mood.
    Suspecting the worse motive from the people around is wrong, this creates a base for the introduction of all kinds of control. If the government wanted totalitarianism, then in such a society it is easy to implement, it would be percepted with willingness and approval.

    Now that I have fulfilled your request to discuss the content, I consider myself entitled to share a funny moment. That’s what subtitles brought me
    https://prnt.sc/rwqqiq
    “Governor bias epidemic” – perhaps artificial intellect knows something?

    • Pooh

      Tatyana
      April 10, 2020 at 14:35

      Dear Tatyana

      In your second paragraph you speak of legal migrants (“people cannot even return to their homeland”), not about illegal immigrants – people who illegally have entered a foreign country to stay.

      By the way, the most likely translation of “Воробьёвка” would be Vorobyov’s/ Vorobyov’s Place etc. (that of, belonging to one Vorobyov). Both your translation and mine are sparrow-informed.  I could say more. Perhaps another time. Anyway, thanks very much for your From Russia with Love dispatches.

      Best wishes.

      • Tatyana

        Pooh, thanks for the kind words.

        I really don’t care to correctly name the status of a person who has arrived from another country and cannot use the state systems of my country in the fullest. It doesn’t matter to me whether he arrived temporarily or plans to stay. Whether he has a legal status or not – all this does not matter during the epidemic. This is a time of crisis when the support of society is vital. Such support can be provided by families, relatives, neighbors, if the state cannot be counted on. But with the closure of transport, even a return to their homeland became impossible. These people are trapped.

      • Tatyana

        Vorobyov’s is wrong, this sort of genitive toponims is for a village that had a landlord.
        The village was named in honor of Vorobtsov, kossak commander, who was the chief of the first settlers. Kossaks had no landlords.

        If I had to explain to the people of UK how we perceive the village name today, I defnitely would use “Sparrowhill”.

1 2 3

Comments are closed.