Internalised Danger 308


We have got so used to the United States being an extremely violent danger to the rest of the world, that the prospect of it internalising its violence is fascinating as well as horrifying. I am hopeful that it is not however likely.

I have to admit I thought Trump was smarter. I expected him to fight for an election result good enough to give him some leverage, and then at a point about about 36 hours ago start to negotiating with Biden for immunity for his family and himself, no tax investigations, and perhaps some continued government boosting of his business affairs, in return for a concession in the election. One thing we know from Burisma and China is that old Joe Biden loves a bung, so I was expecting comfortable understandings to be reached between two immoral and grasping old men. I thought I possessed a fair store of worldly wisdom, but plainly I underrated how crazy Trump is.

The American political system is plainly broken. The Democrats almost managed to fail to defeat Trump, having yet again managed to ensure that the poor electorate was given the choice of two horribly unattractive candidates. The Electoral College system came within an inch of reimposing Trump against the wishes of a large majority of the popular vote.

I do know all the arguments for the electoral college system, that it gives a counterbalance to the huge populations of the cities and coasts and allows rural states to protect their interests. But what it means in the real world is that the votes of conservative white people have disproportionate effect. If Trump had won due to this system, the strain on the fabric of the American body politic would have been – rather like the strain on the UK from Scots being permanently ruled by English Tories. Californian votes in effect are worth less than other votes because they have to be discounted in electoral college representation, because there are so many Californians. Biden having squeaked it removes the acuity of this sore, but the sore is still there waiting to burst out again in 2024.

Having been wrong about Trump backing out, I am reluctant to predict further. My instincts are that Trump’s gun touting fanatics are blowhards and while I fear there may be a few fatalities and incidents, mostly this is going to fizzle out in a series of dead-end lawsuits. I don’t see widespread rioting by “deplorables”, rather long term nursing of grievance. I have no expectation at all that a Biden administration will carry our any meaningful social and economic reform to improve the lives of those whose feelings of alienation were manipulated so adroitly by Trump.

It is typical of the shallowness of the identity politics which have replaced real attempts at social progress and economic improvement for ordinary people, that we are supposed to be celebrating that Kamala Harris will be Vice President on the grounds of her gender and race, when she is a power hungry right winger of the most hardened kind.

America urgently needs a radical dose of social and economic reform as championed by Bernie Sanders. It needs the Green New Deal, and the world needs a real commitment in Washington to environmentalism. One prediction of which I am very confident is that we are not going to see any genuinely significant action on any of this. None of Trump’s poorer supporters will be changing their political minds due to an improvement in their livelihood and prospects over the next four years.

Of one thing I am sure; I am pleased for those who feel released tonight from a regime rooted in racism, and I hope they are right that Trump will now fade away into irrelevance. But as the social and economic position of middle class Americans continues to deteriorate, one thing will be plain in future. Trump was not the cause of America’s problems, he was only a symptom. The future is not bright.

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308 thoughts on “Internalised Danger

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  • vin_ot

    For the ruling class the combination of a Biden presidency and a Republican Senate is the perfect setup. Every bit of uncertainty and instability is removed and the empire gets back a more PR friendly face. Both conservative and liberal elites are happy which is why the media is happy and is telling everyone else they should be too.

    • Tom Welsh

      Yes, instead of Mr Trump saying (and tweeting) exactly what he thinks, we will have Mr Biden and his friends. Which should soon cause us to remember that,

      “A man may smile, and smile, and be a villain”.

      Like Mr Obama, and both Messrs Bush, and Mr Clinton, and Mr Reagan…

      • Tom Welsh

        Both morally and tactically, I much prefer an outright villain who tells us openly what he plans.

  • Gordon

    You appear to be willing to ignore the gigantic voting fraud and pretend that the senile and utterly corrupt Biden has majority support. Certainly Trump is awful and only a candidate as truly dire as Biden and his communist, white hating running mate could make him look good. The left is so completely out of it’s mind that I think you really believe what you say. Incredible that madness is so contagious- far more than the fake virus for sure.

    • Laguerre

      What “gigantic voting fraud”? Can’t say I’ve seen any evidence, apart from wild Trumpy assertions.

      • Tatyana

        Laguerre, that’s what in the ru-net:

        Deutche Welle
        https://twitter.com/dw_russian/status/1324229084839333889

        “In the United States, 300 thousand ballots sent by mail have disappeared. The court ordered the US Postal Service to investigate, but the service declines, saying they cannot be traced.”

        Vesti
        https://www.vesti.ru/article/2481636

        “Twitter blocked more than a third of Trump’s posts that related to recounts or allegations of fraud. Messages about ballot stuffing or corruption at polling stations from other users, were deleted with incredible speed.

        “William Bradley, 118, voted by absentee ballot in Wayne County, Michigan. William Bradley died in 1984.
        Terry Mattis, 120, voted on an absentee ballot in Michigan, accompanied by his age group June Aiken in the same state, but in a different city …
        “I stayed at the site all day and found 500 names that were not registered, their names were not on the additional lists. In the morning we could watch calmly, now we were asked to leave, “says the observer.

        The observers were not just kicked out of the polling stations – they were simply shut off from the most important part of the process. The votes were counted behind curtains and cardboard billboards. Or they covered up the windows with paper bags. They did it without hesitation in front of dozens of journalists, cameramen and photographers. Those who tried to get inside were sent away. Especially if the observers were from the Republican Party.”


        As you may guess, it all provoked another wave of memes and sarcastic jokes in Russia.

          • Spencer Eagle

            Election night: GA Trump +118K…MI Trump +324K…PA Trump +690K
            Next morning it had mysteriously switched around: GA Biden +1.5K..MI Biden +146K…PA Biden +14k
            It stinks, things like counting being suspended overnight with vote counters sent home, the prevention of observers overseeing counting and statistically anomalous figures like a single contiguous block of 23,277 votes from Philadelphia for Biden, not a single one for Trump, should be of concern.
            If this is allowed to pass democracy is over because voting will be over.

        • laguerre

          There’s also a danger of false-flags. Trump’s been saying quite a while now that there would be voter fraud. There’s been time for nutters to prepare fake false votes in order to discredit the process, like the ones you cite. It is not even a matter that would need to be attributed to the Trump campaign itself; there are plenty of nutters out there, fervent believers in the divine Trump, who would do it.

          • Colin Smith

            There are also democrat false flag false allegations that can be easily rebuffed, therefor tarring all complaints as bogus.

          • laguerre

            All these allegations of individual false-flags of course are far, far, away from the accusations of “gigantic voting fraud” being made.

          • Tatyana

            Laguerre, I understand what you say, but really, the US Post doesn’t deny the loss of 300 000 ballots. They do refuse to investigate. And, I see Trump is acting according to the law – he makes legal claims to investigate. What’s wrong? To me it seems quite normal in this situation. If the process itself is really corrupt, then it requires an investigation, right? Regardless of who wins this particular race. The voting process is established in the interests of the population of the country. I’m surprised Biden doesn’t comment on the lost ballots. If he intends to become the president, he must indicate his attitude.

          • laguerre

            “the US Post doesn’t deny the loss of 300 000 ballots.”

            And it’s not proven either. It’s an allegation.. Yes, it should be investigated. Don’t forget that the Postal Service is under the control of a Trumpy. Its reaction to allegations will have been coordinated with the Big Orange Boss in the White House.

          • laguerre

            Of course the disappearance of 300,000 ballots in the post would be done by a Trumpy, as it was well known that postal ballots were more favourable to the Democrats. It wouldn’t be being done by a Democrat, as complained about.

            I do agree that the politicisation of the USPS is absolutely appalling, but that’s the Trumpies, not the Dems. The Republicans have long been known for wanting to reduce the number of people who get to vote.

          • Tatyana

            Why would Trump insist on investigation when he knows the missing ballots are in favor of his adversary?
            I think, there’s another reason. I think there’s something about this new head of the US Post, they appointed just 2 months before the elections.

          • Tom Welsh

            “If the process itself is really corrupt, then it requires an investigation, right?”

            An honest person’s point of view.

            In the modern USA, it’s more that “if the process itself is really corrupt, then it requires that no investigation be allowed at all costs”.

          • laguerre

            Tatyana
            November 7, 2020 at 13:08

            “Why would Trump insist on investigation when he knows the missing ballots are in favor of his adversary?”

            Yes, indeed. But try telling Trump the truth.

            “I think there’s something about this new head of the US Post, they appointed just 2 months before the elections.”

            Yes, he’s a friend of Trump.

          • Tom Welsh

            Tatyana, I think that one of the worst features of the social breakdown currently in progress across the USA is the almost complete dissolution of trust. Thus you cite the report of ballots being lost, but someone who doesn’t like the implications of that is always liable to pop up with a “fact check” or a demand for “sources”.

            Most people have not studied philosophy or logic, and do not understand that proof itself is an unproven and unprovable concept. At some point we have to stop making synical demands for proof, and find some core of facts that we can accept as true.

            But in modern America – and increasingly in the whole West, which is to say the group of countries that slavishly ape the USA – nothing is taken on trust. Because the Others are vicious, ruthless enemies without principles or conscience.

            Of course, each side thinks that way about the other.

          • Tatyana

            Well, I think people of the US are able to decide for themselves what to trust and how to react, not my business, actually. I just recalled the Moscow protests, we discussed here some time ago. It was a suspicion of cheating and the voting was investigated. I remember there were the same “dead people votes” given for opposition, the same as we see reported now from the US. Also I recall Belorussia elections and reports of fraud. The same counting behind the closed doors without observers.
            Comparing Russian or Belorussian elections with their about 80% pro voices for current authourities, vs US elections with their about 50/50 ratio… I can say it’s much easier to cheat a few percent voices, than to fake 80%.

          • Peter M

            Tatyana.

            ‘The voting process is established in the interests of the population of the country’.

            Not wanting to be spiteful, but what makes you so sure of this? Remember we’re dealing here with a country that invades/bombs other countries on false grounds, calls torture ‘enhanced interrogation’, sanctions ICC officials, arrogates OPCW, keeps Guantanamo prisoners without trial for years, etc, etc.

          • Yalt

            I’m not sure this is true absolutely everywhere, voting procedures are in the hands of the individual states and can vary from place to place. But I’m able to go online at my county’s Board of Elections website and confirm that my mail-in ballot was received and accepted for counting. If hundreds of thousands of ballots had gone missing (as opposed to “weren’t scanned at delivery,” which the USPS acknowledges and explains) wouldn’t we have a lot of complaints from individual voters whose ballots weren’t received?

          • Tatyana

            @Yalt
            Live example:
            I send my crafts to the Amazon warehouse. While there were no flights during lockdown, I made a decent amount and I want to sell it out during the holiday season. Thus, the package must arrive in Illinois by December 15th.

            What do I do first of all? I take a calculator and do simple math: parcel delivery time + warehouse processing time + EXTRA TIME for unexpected delay, e.g. overloaded postal service during the election period.
            It’s elementary.

            I don’t think that the US electoral bodies are much more stupid than me, or, that there are no calculators in the US.

            Another example:
            Imagine, I hire a salesperson for my store. I check his work by monitoring records and reports. One of my products is selling slightly worse than before. I assume that people just don’t want this product anymore and I gradually remove it from the store.

            Later, I accidentally discover that my salesperson organized his own profit stream – he bought the same product on his own and sold it to my customers in my store, just without registering sales. The impudent seller traded cheaper than me, and the benefit to the buyer outweighed the lack of a fiscal check, so there were no outraged buyers either.

          • Yalt

            Those examples aren’t at all parallel to what we’re discussing. If you had collected payment from 300,000 customers and simply failed to deliver product, someone would have noticed.

            Not only am I able to confirm that my ballot was accepted, anyone who knows my name, address and birthdate can do the same. And there are groups, on both sides, doing this routinely. A couple of weeks before the election I started getting daily flyers from an outfit called the “Center for Voter Information” or something like that, reminding me to mail in my ballot. They stopped sending them the day the BOE received my ballot–they were checking (I assume they’ve automated the process) the publicly-available list of ballot requests each day and sending notes to those with “NOT YET RECEIVED” on the BOE database. No doubt they only did this for people if they were fairly certain (probably from the publicly-available information on which primary they vote in) would vote for their preferred candidate. In my case they were certainly wrong because I voted for Hawkins and there’s no way in hell the Green Party has the funding for an operation like this.

            If someone knows of 300,000 ballots with receipt scans but no delivery scans, they have names and addresses from the receipt scans and can easily find birthdates for, conservatively, 95% of them. It’d be a simple matter to do the check. They’ve either done the work, or they haven’t bothered because they knew their story was BS from the start.

      • Baron

        Have a look at the two graphs below, L, one can except that tens of votes would be for one candidate in an election between the two, it’s stretching it to believe that hundreds of votes would go to one candidate only, but it’s totally inconceivable that over 200,000 votes would all be for one candidate i.e. Biden, that was what happened in the days of the communist thugs running Russia, to should not happen in the US. A clear example of vote rigging if there ever was one.

        The narrative’s in Russian, the graphs are in English, you should be able to comprehend them.

        https://politikus.ru/events/132409-budut-li-amerikancy-posle-etogo-uchit-kogo-to-demokratii.html

          • Johny Conspiranoid

            “there’s no shortage of fake news (or gullible readers) on the internet.”

            there’s no shortage of fake news on the BBC.

          • Bruce

            The bbc story only talks about michigan. But the msg you replied to had graphs for Wisconsin and Michigan. What about wisconsin?

          • Mrs Brown

            We have completely given up on the BBC. Just turn it off now. We even deleted their damned channels from the EPG but every time was have to do one of those pesky ‘re-tunes’ which is often, like a ghost in the night they come back again. Grr!

          • Dawg

            Yeah, BBC … Boo! Boo! C*nts! (I know, I know.) I mighta known folks here would focus on the medium, not the message. For the record, the story also ran in:

            and just about every local and national outlet covering the election. But, yeah, I can see how some people reckon it must be the BBC’s fault (global gaslighters that they are!).

            That aside, what about the explanation of how the counting error appeared on the graph, how it spread though alt-news sites and was retweeted by Trump, and how it was later retracted by the guy who kicked the fuss off to begin with? I’d say those are the more interesting elements of the story:

            A since deleted tweet posted by a conservative commentator and chair of Texas’ Travis County Republican Party appeared to show Joe Biden getting 100% of newly counted votes in a Michigan results update, but the tweet’s author, Matt Mackowiak, has acknowledged the posts were inaccurate.
            Attached to Mackowiak’s tweet were two election maps appearing to show election results from earlier in the count and one from later. Mackowiak said he took the screenshots early this morning. Mackowiak acknowledged the posts were inaccurate and has deleted the tweet, explaining, “I have now learned the MI update referenced was a typo in one county.”

            And as for Wisconsin, you can find a selection of the voting fraud myths here: Fact-checking the avalanche of Wisconsin election misinformation

            Or if you’re short of time, you can read about both states on the same page: Early morning election results from Michigan and Wisconsin show voter fraud.

            But don’t open those links if you’re allergic to fact-checking sites. Instead just pull the MAGA cap over your eyes and listen to Trump declaring his victory over and over again, if it makes you feel better.

      • Mike

        Well it’s quite obvious that there is massive fraud going on and Trump won’t be able to change that anyway
        Already the mass lying media and Facebook Twitter google Youtube made the fraud all alone by a concerted Antitrumpism campaign something never seen before at that scale in history
        The moneylenders decided that Trump won’t get 4
        more years and that is it
        The power is in the hands of a few very big bad players
        and nobody will be able to do anything about it

    • Johny Conspiranoid

      Gordon
      I don’t like KH for the reasons Craig gives, but ” his communist, white hating running mate”? Which is the communist bit? Which is white hating bit? She seems to have spent most of her career putting black people behind bars.
      I also suspect gigantic voting fraud, not least because it is characteristic of American ‘democracy’, the democracy that Biden and the CIA want to bring to the world so they can use it for corrupt purposes just as they doat home.

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/11/american-presidents/comment-page-2/#comment-963600

      • Piotr Berman

        Johny, I am hazy on details, but I comprehended latest Trump ads “He (Biden) coddled Communists, sided with Socialists and he lies that he will not raise taxes”. Perhaps “coddled Communists” was my misunderstanding of “he cuddled with a Communist”, i.e. Kamala. That would prove that Kamala is a Communist — how can you doubt my corrected understanding of Trump’s ad? I do not have a source of “white hating”, but if half what Gordon wrote is correct, it makes me optimistic about the other half.

    • Jams O'Donnell

      My, but you have a massive dose of false-consciousness. (Technical term – look it up). Unless of course you are a millionaire, in which case I applaud your frenzy.

    • Tom Welsh

      Enemies of the USA, and all those more or less innocent parties who have been designated by Washington as “antagonists”, “adversaries”, and “competitors” – and thus treated as de facto enemies – have cause to rejoice.

      The already rapid decline of the USA will soon reach a Gadarene pace with the return to power of those who make it a point of honour never to admit what they are really thinking or planning. And whose identity politics are calculated to shake the already weakened structure of the “multicultural society” to fragments.

  • Baron

    As one of your supporters and backers, Mr. Murray, Baron respectfully disagrees with most of what you say, e.g. the patently nonsensical environmentalism as it’s preached blaming people for the climatic changes, as well as with your prediction that the effect of Trump will die out, vanish, be no more with his ‘fading away into irrelevance’.

    You will see that even though the man, because of his age. will indeed loosen up, the core of his domestic policy, the ‘make America great’ will stay, it resonates with a large chunk of the unwashed of America, if anything it will become more relevant as months and years go by. The country that got her hegemony because of its manufacturing might is not longer in the first league, her hegemony now roots in the consumption, a much weaker foundation that the new President will not address because he’s not even aware of it.

    Look at the graph below, it tells you why the Donald was elected, the massive gap between the distribution of the newly created wealth thanks to the growth in productivity will, if anything, widen, the corrupt Biden will make sure of it, the masses will grow more dissatisfied, another Donald will appear.

    The graph explains at a glance why the Donald got to the Oval Office, why the BLM movement gathered in strength. Neither will melt away. To expect Biden to address either is delusional. It’s even a bigger fallacy to think Harris will deal with these two issue if Biden gives up soon after taking office (as it’s likely to happen).

    (The productivity boost was due mostly to the US manufacture moving offshore from around 1980, China being the country of choice, only a little of what left America will come back, the difference between wages in China and other low labour cost countries remains, the corporates cannot afford to ignore it).

    https://www.epi.org/publication/black-workers-wages-have-been-harmed-by-both-widening-racial-wage-gaps-and-the-widening-productivity-pay-gap/

    • pretzelattack

      blaming people for climate changes–that’s science. people are responsible for all kinds of damage to the environment, climate change is just the most serious example. nuclear leaks and accidents, innumerable oil spills, floating islands of garbage the size of australia, etc. etc.

    • Jams O'Donnell

      If you think Trump was on the side of the poor, you are nuts. The richest 1% grew even richer under Trump, while the poor grew even poorer. The masses may vote for another Trump, but he/she will do no more for the poor than Trump did – it’s all a gigantic con trick.

    • Republicofscotland

      Really!

      Biden and Harris in the Whitehouse is just the stirring of the bucket of sewage, people think they’ll make a difference from Trump and all the other prior US presidents they won’t.

      • pretzelattack

        exactly, the two parties are basically the same, as gore vidal pointed out long ago.

        • Jams O'Donnell

          Yeah. Two faces of the same corrupt, Neo-liberal warty arse.

          The US empire is on a terminal slide, and until the ‘system’ incorporates a real ‘left’, nothing will change.

  • tom

    you say that the electoral college system “.. means in the real world .. that the votes of conservative white people have disproportionate effect”.

    Could you explain why? Not saying you’re wrong, just trying to understand ..

    • Johny Conspiranoid

      tom
      the electoral college is arranged to give the smaller states a larger say per voter. the smaller states tend to be whiter and more consevative.

    • ColoradoFrench

      Each state gets 1 elector per senator and 1 per house seat. House seats (roughly) track population but senate seats don’t, since each state gets 2 regardless of population.

      Wyoming, with less than 300k tabulated votes in the presidential election, gets 3 electors. That’s 1 per 100k voters.
      California, with more than 12M, gets 55. That’s 1 per 218k voters.

      Many red states are scarcely populated (Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, the two Dakotas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc).
      These states are also very white.

      • Yalt

        It’s just a quibble but Oklahoma is most assuredly not “very white.” There’s a quite large percentage of Native Americans there and the percentage of non-Hispanic whites is lower than the US median (a bit more than the mean but not by a lot) and less than, for example, Pennsylvania or Michigan or Massachusetts.

  • Wally jumblatt

    You said a couple of days ago that you wouldn’t write about things if you didn’t have extensive knowledge.
    Bernie Sanders, who had -for the second time- enough momentum to become the Democrat candidate, was shafted by the DNC, who crowned their useless placeman Biden in a coup.
    Biden and Harris, neither of whom had any momentum at all in the race, were then told they were only puppets of a corrupt hidden leadership. Biden of course is cool with that, as long as he gets his share.
    Trump is no more a racist than you are, he’s just a loudmouth narcissist, and you have fallen for the relentless propaganda. His big increase in black and Hispanic vote suggests they know otherwise.
    The DNC victory (Swampy Joe had nothing to do with it) is a disaster for the USA and the West. The ugly Americans are back. They are neither democratic, nor liberal.
    Deep State rules, clear and free -rewarded for their crimes. Disaster.

    • SA

      Wally
      Could it be that there was a pragmatic behind the scenes deal between the true ‘left’ within the democratic party and the right wing neoliberal party? You see Bernie probably realized that he would not win the popular vote because of the reluctance to accept socialism (as has been seen here in Britain) and struck a deal, see my comment below.

      • pretzelattack

        imo sa, he caved in. there was no reason to sell out his numerous supporters without getting anything but cosmetic concessions in return. maybe he was threatened.

        • SA

          Pretz
          I think they may have been a backroom deal. Open socialism is easily denigrated in the hype neoliberal countries such as Britain and US. Bernie may have appeal within the democratic party but not to those who will tip the balance, those on the middle right to whom Biden will appeal. This really plays on the fact that the true left has nowhere to go but those on the centre may be swayed by a Biden.

    • Martin

      Tulsi and Bernie would have been unstoppable, but wall street and silicon valley didn’t like them.

    • Jams O'Donnell

      He’s a racist all right, and a white-supremacist. His comments say it all – “There are very good people on both sides” – both sides being either Neo-nazis or socialists. So, ‘yeah, yeah, yeah’, to you.

  • Gerald

    Adroitly observed Mr Murray! In short nothing has changed in or about America, the fact that the Dems don’t have the senate means they don’t have to do anything, which suits them fine, they never wanted a green new deal and they aren’t progressive. They talk the talk but where never going to walk the walk. Meanwhile Trump got the second highest number of votes ever cast in a US election, 69 million people voted for this person, and all that he stands for. This is worrying. Think of the next one to come along but 30 years younger and mildly competent. Trouble ahead. Harris will be just another Obama, all smiles and poster child nonsense. She’ll be bombing brown people in the middle east before you can say ‘chemical false flag’ and as an architect of the prison industrial complex sending as many people as possible into incarceration for mild offences. To summarise, the US is no less a quasi fascist oligarchy than it was last week.

  • SA

    Some slight hope that Biden/Harris may have been seen to be a compromise candidate pair as a concession for Saunders and others on the real left. The reasoning would be that the state of the capitalist neoliberal world has shifted so much to the right that it is now very difficult to sell any centre left or even socialist democratic policy, look at what happened to Corbyn. The lesson was learnt, Saunders withdrew with a promise to have an influence behind the scene or even to have a place in the new administration as a price. If this is the case, then it would be quickly apparent when we see that Bernie is offered a cabinet post.

      • Yalt

        Convenient for Biden that he’ll be able to blame McConnell for what he actually wanted to do himself. The Lincoln project made it pretty clear what the game is, if it wasn’t obvious already.

    • Jams O'Donnell

      What happened to Corbyn was a concerted attack by zionist shills and their right-wing allies in the ‘Labour’ party and the billionaire owned media. Nothing to do with a general feeling in the country.

  • forthestate

    “Of one thing I am sure; I am pleased for those who feel released tonight from a regime rooted in racism.”

    How exactly does the victory of a man responsible for writing the law that has incarcerated more Black Americans in prison than there were slaves at any one time in America release anyone from a regime rooted in racism?

    • joel

      Surprised Craig remains unaware of how steeped Biden’s career is in racism. Not just the constitutional amendment he sought against integrating schools: his friendship with arch segregationists; the crime bill he authored, etc, but also his career long dream to end social security in order to ‘balance the budget”, a dream he will now hope to finally realise. It is not for nothing he is known as the Delaware Dixiecrat and it’s no coincidence he picked a sidekick who also has a career long fetish for locking up black and brown people. No coincidence either that the Democrats haemorrhaged nonwhite support last week.

      • Bruce Allen

        Because in truth, choice is Republican or DINO (Democratic in name only). Flip sides of same coin.
        Left of centre long erased from political landscape.
        Silicon valley (state of CA) drives US economy and has stranglehold on Nasdaq /NYSE via 6 stocks and key figures – [Bezos, Zuckerberg,Gates, Cook, Brin/Page, Hoag (Netflix/TCV funds)] which are the proxy for Corporate America! is this likely to change whichever party gets the mandate to become paymaster?

        • forth estate

          It has more chance of changing under Trump. He’s the one challenging Silicon valley; I’m surprised you haven’t noticed. Silicon Valley backs his rival, as is obvious from all the censorship on Biden’s behalf. It’s pretty obvious to anyone watching over the last four years that Trump is the lesser evil, and it’s a been long time since the Democrats could claim that dubious distinction.

          • Jams O'Donnell

            Trump is only the ‘lesser evil’ in that he is more disorganised (i.e. clueless) and relatively un-controlled by the Pentagon, CIA, etc. Otherwise he is a loose cannon, a mis-guided missile, who is stupid and egotistical enough to show up the US empire as it really is – universally malignant, evil and dangerous.

      • Jams O'Donnell

        Do people really believe that black people are inherently more criminal than white people, rather than being driven to criminality by widespread prejudice and economic and other discrimination?

  • Jack

    A bit hypocritical of the Democrats trying to act civil now, implying republicans should do the same now when they have lost. Thats not really how the dems. acted themselves when they lost the election of 2016.

    • Tom Welsh

      That’s normal tactics, Jack. Always use the most appropriate weapon that comes to hand in the current situation. If you can gain advantage by taking the moral high ground and making your opponent look crude and ungracious, by all means do so. Or, if necessary, just shove him down a flight of stairs.

      Just as the US government itself relies now on diplomacy and promises, now on crude threats, and now on violence.

      (Although only the violence is believable).

  • Athanasius

    Try a thought experiment, Craig. Imagine that Trump is not a professional, career politician. Imagine he’s spent his entire life having to pay bribe money to Democrat politicians for building licences whenever he wanted to build something in New York. Imagine he got tired and old, and grabbing them by the whatsit was no longer anesthetic enough for having to live your life in tribute to the putative left and their “everyone we don’t like is Hitler” mentality. Imagine he thought, sod this, let’s see if we can actually make that difference that we’ve always been told any American can make. Imagine he’s actually a good guy trying to do the right thing, and not just the moral equivalent of Joe “what’s in it for me” Biden. In short, imagine he’s seeking redemption. Does your vision of what’s happening in America now change?

    • Piotr Berman

      “Imagine he thought, so this, let’s see if we can actually make that difference…” I grew on Beatles songs, I love Lennon’s “Imagine”, but imagining an aged obscene foulmouthed guy “actually trying to make that difference” is too hard for me.

      I recall Trump promising to replace Affordable Care act with “something marvelous”. Nothing happened. A great national infrastructure projects. Ditto. His greatest achievements are convincing crazy and mean Gulfie monarchs to purchase even more weapons than before and use them to reduce Yemen from an OK medieval country to thoroughly ruined pre-medieval country.

      Consider the boldest move of Trump toward world piece — negotiations with North Korea. He put Bolton, the craziest of war hawks, in charge of details. Was Trump stupid, just pretending, or both? Or why he send nuclear capable B-52’s to fly along Russian border? Why he extolled “Our nuclear was getting very tired..Now we have it in, as we would say, tippy-top shape. Tippy top.” So he has to parade our no-longer tired nuclear along Russian borders.

    • Blissex

      «Imagine that Trump is not a professional, career politician. Imagine he’s spent his entire life having to pay bribe money to Democrat politicians for building licences whenever he wanted to build something in New York.»

      Not just that, he has also been one of the largest donors, at the level of the Koch brothers, to Republican politicians, and that was to get favorable (as in outrageous) tax loopholes for real estate developers.
      I have little doubt that D Trump relationship with politicians has always been “transactional”, pay-per-play, whether Democratic (under the table) or republican (more officially). My guess is that instinctively he thinks businessmen like him should not have to consider bribes and donations as a business expense, but I guess he had adapted to the system, which gives businessmen quite a bit of control at least, it is not just about “sleazy” politicos shaking down “honest” businessmen.

  • Kenneth+G+Coutts

    Watch out Craig! the yanks wil be calling you a Marxist socialist.
    Lol
    This fiasco throws up the fake narrative of Yankee exceptionalism.
    Long may it continue, the demise of a rogue state.
    For too long, they have abused their position in the world.
    🐼🐼

    • Jams O'Donnell

      “Marxist socialist” I not in the vocabulary of most US citizens. But as you say, it won’t matter for much longer – the empire is on the slide into a terminal decline.

  • aspnaz

    From a regime routed in racism to a regime routed in extreme corruption …over to China Joe!

  • James Cook

    Craig, you are wise and experienced enough to know this was never about TRUMP, any more than the future is about HARRIS/biden!!!
    By doing so you fall into the trap that has been laid out for your distraction.

    The wise money ignores the actors and what the stage feed the viewers.

    November 07, 2020: Regime Change In Washington Paves Way To More Nefarious Policies
    https://www.moonofalabama.org/

    Banana Follies: the mother of all color revolutions
    https://asiatimes.com/2020/11/banana-follies-the-mother-of-all-color-revolutions/

    • giyane

      The late 007’s got more life in his acetate form than Biden in his existing form. And probably more stability.

  • kerdasi amaq

    “Trump was not the cause of America’s problems, he was only symptom”.

    This all you got right in your article.

    It’s clear that the Dems cheated. Biden did not win. Americans have the means, but, maybe not the will, to protect themselves from any wannabee Bolshevik commissars(Kamela Harris) who attempt to unleash a reign a terror.

    I’ll also predict that the pro-Chinese beltway morons will be betrayed by their Chinese pals.

    • pretzelattack

      nope it is not clear that the dems cheated here. the same election, the gop retained control of the senate and picked up seats in the house. it was a very close election. and harris is a shameless corporate tool, not a “bolshevik”–that’s a complete farce if you really believe it.

      • kerdasi amaq

        That’s a bogus argument. The last thing they want is losing senatorial or house candidates chasing them for voter fraud in their home states. What they did is quite simple. They stopped the counts in the states they had to win, when they knew how many fake ballots that they had to pull out of their real ends to win and then started counting again when they created these phony ballots and brought them in to push Biden over the top.

        • pretzelattack

          that’s horseshit. they wanted control of all 3 branches of government. they didn’t stop counts anywhere, the reason the counts take so long is because the mail in ballots weren’t allowed to be counted till the day of the election in some states. nobody has the kind of control of the election process that you hypothesize, it’s 50 different election systems loosely coordinated. the more branches of government a party controls, they more they can charge their donors.

        • pretzelattack

          there is no lenin running in this election. the senator from mbna and the senator who was bought by steve mnuching are not remotely leftist.

    • Jams O'Donnell

      “Bolshevik commissars (Kamela Harris)” – so far from reality to be absolutely hysterical. You yanks have no idea as to what ‘leftism’ really is. You think that a right-winger like Harris is in some way “left” – idiotic. This is a woman who does not support de-funding the police, who objected to a law subjecting the police to more scrutiny, etc.

      If she was a real leftist – in the normal (i.e, non-US) sense – she would be demanding that the police be severely defunded and be put under local community control – if not being disbanded altogether.

      I bet you don’t actually know what a ‘Bolshevist’ is, without looking it up – it’s just a slogan you’ve picked up undigested. You yanks make me laugh, really.

  • Stevie Boy

    Come on folks, this is the good old USA, land of the free and home of the brave, protector of the free world. What did you really expect ? Any potentially good presidents get shot the rest do as their backers tell them. It’ll be interesting to see how long it takes Killary to ooze back into a position of ‘importance’.
    This is as bad as all those people in the UK who voted Tory and now cannot believe the mess we’re in.

    • Tom Welsh

      The voters’ choice would be easier if, from time to time, they were offered a candidate who is not a stinking hypocritical murderous charlatan.

      But of course there is machinery in place to make sure they aren’t.

      Mr Trump is, to my knowledge, the first candidate in 200 years to do an end-run around the machinery. Just think: he’s too good a person to be acceptable to the establishment! Imagine what their favourites are like.

      • Yalt

        There are other ways to be unacceptable to the establishment. You could, for example, be in debt several hundred million to a major bank.

  • N_

    One thing we know from Burisma and China is that old Joe Biden loves a bung, so I was expecting comfortable understandings to be reached between two immoral and grasping old men. I thought I possessed a fair store of worldly wisdom, but plainly I underrated how crazy Trump is (..) The American political system is plainly broken.

    Then there’s the obvious possibility that Joe Biden wouldn’t have taken a bung from Trump if Trump had offered him one. In any case, a president doesn’t have the authority to stop tax-crime investigations, prosecutions, or convictions under state law, since the constitution lets him pardon only for federal crimes. If we forget about the law and look at power, Biden certainly won’t have the power to do that kind of thing when the state in question is New York. So Biden would have little to offer Trump. That’s even if Trump could persuade his creditors to lend him some money for him to bribe his successor. The long and the short of it is that Trump is well up Sh*t Creek.

    The latest is that Trump is ranting on about tractors. Apparently it was the tractors that did it. They blocked doors and windows. Naughty, naughty tractors! I wonder what colour they were. The tractors, that is. I’m not sure what the great man can tell us about their drivers. Perhaps they were all women or something, who all got together to do “bad things”. Witches, I’m telling ya. They called a coven on the Saturday before the election. There’s abundant evidence, and we’re taking it to the Supreme Court. Conclusion: Mr President won’t be taking any questions today. I’m also doubting whether Mike Pence will be present, wearing the turd-eating grin he usually has on his face when he stands there like a Blue Peter presenter trying to convey his approval and deep respect when Trump is spouting deranged bilge.

    Here’s a tip for anybody who wants to get a better handle on Trump’s mental illness than they already have (and if he keeps surprising you, then consider that “he’s a narcissist” may be a dismally superficial observation): read Carl Jung’s “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”, one of Trump’s favourite books. (Norman Vincent Peale’s “The Power of Positive Thinking” merely gave him some techniques. You can see that Trump’s “spiritual adviser” the tongue-speaking Paula White knows about them too. But Jung will get you far deeper into the poor guy’s head.)

    Trump has announced a press conference in Philadelphia, to begin 30 minutes from now, at 11:30 local time, 16:30 GMT. He says it will be held outside a landscaping firm. Perhaps he thinks they’re the company that supplied the tractors, and he’ll order the Secret Service to sort them out? Alternatively, most people thought he originally meant the Four Seasons hotel, so perhaps he did but the hotel’s owners told him he wasn’t allowed on their land? Guess who who owns the company that owns the hotel. Answer: Bill Gates and Saudi prince Al-Waleed bin Talal. Are the Saudis too giving Trump the bum’s rush now? Oh dear, oh dear. There will soon be some famous photos of Trump towers with sticky tape over their doors saying they’ve been seized by bailiffs.

    I doubt Trump will be acting president even in a week’s time.

    C’mon Nancy, go see Mike and 25th the m*****f******. Do the world a favour.

    Perhaps some comedians will disrupt it, dressed as tractors or maybe sharks?

  • Eric McCoo

    Democracy drowned in the vast ocean of slime that is the big business funded corporate liberal media.Trump was vilified every minute of his presidency then censored by the techno scum during the election.

    • Tatyana

      Agree.
      I am personally glad that unprecedented measures to stop Russian interference were announced in advance. So this time, they don’t blame the Russians for the lack of mailed ballots, and it was not the Russians who hacked and censored Twitter and Reddit.

      Mod, we don’t have to be serious on Saturdays too, do we?

      In Russia, the authorities liked to justify their shortcomings by foreign intervention. Such ridiculous excuses found a sarcastic response in folklore, and the phrase “Obama is the one who pisses in your doorway” became a meme. The current jokes about the US elections also revolve around this, they say ‘the US is choosing who will be to blame for Russia’s problems in the next 4 years’.

  • N_

    AP and CNN have called the election for Biden…minutes before the scheduled start of Trump’s Philadelphia presser.

    • N_

      The posters behind the mic at the presser say “Trump 2020”, not “Trump Pence 2020”. Expected speakers include Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani and Corey Lewandowski.

      So far I’ve heard no official explanation of why that location, on the outskirts of Philadelphia outside a landscape gardening firm, was chosen. My guess that Trump wanted to hold it outside the Four Seasons hotel and they told him to eff off seems as good as any.

      • N_

        We’re 20 minutes past the latest promised start time for the presser. I can hear the lower-league scumsucking fascist journalists stroking each other, sounding off against the “mainstream media”, while boneheads type “Trump won” at Youtube, but are any organisers on the site yet? Is this event going to happen?

      • Yalt

        The landscape gardening firm had the same name as the hotel. Disgruntled staffer was told to “call the Four Seasons” and had a bit of fun, would be my guess. One of the perils of a lifetime of treating your peons like peons.

  • Mist001

    At 78, is Biden young enough to actually start any wars? Is there anywhere in the Middle East left to start any wars?

    Just Iran really, isn’t it?

    The world just became a little bit darker.

    • laguerre

      They won’t attack Iran. The military blackballed the idea in 2012, and each time a crisis arises, they back off. Too risky. The US, however evil they may be , is not omnipotent.

      • Goose

        No they won’t do anything. The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action(JCPOA) is still just about alive anyway, despite Trump’s US withdrawal. There are no real alternatives. As for war:

        No pre-invasion troop staging country(Iraq is Shia led and pro-Iran), Iran is too large a land area; too large a population to think about occupation; too united (Iran’s 90% + Shia) The US couldn’t hope to install a regime like Iraq, because they’d be viewed as traitors/puppets, and they’d have to be drawn from the Shia majority (Iraq had an unpopular Sunni minority leader in Saddam, so regime change was easier).

        A US bombing campaign with no invasion would just infuriate the Iranian population, strengthen the leadership. Iran would pull out of the NPT and double-down on a nuclear programme.

        • Goose

          Another thing that may limit Biden/Harris military adventurism is the closeness of this result. This isn’t a landslide or the repudiation of Trumpism they’d hoped for. Biden won largely because of Trump’s handling of the pandemic and because he wasn’t Trump. The left more progressive wing of the Democratic party are hugely skeptical of Biden. Unlike Obama, he isn’t a great orator or particularly charismatic. His room for manoeuvre may be very limited as they can’t afford to go backwards from a weak position in the House & Senate in mid-term elections in 2022.

          • Yalt

            That would seem to be an argument in favor of military adventurism, not the reverse.

            The one thing I’m sure of is that whenever a politician here speaks of “bringing the country together” there’s either going to be a war on or a popular social program is about to get the axe.

        • Blissex

          «A US bombing campaign with no invasion would just infuriate the Iranian population, strengthen the leadership.»

          One of the goals of USA wars is not to *conquer* a country, but to *punish* it, that is to reduce it to rubble as a lesson to all other countries. After Iraq was smashed even Gaddafi decided to switch sides. As it was put in a famous interview “Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.“. Sometimes they do it with a medium sized country.
          The other factor is that the USA are pretty good (lots of bribes and funding) at working with the internal opposition of the countries it targets, and Iran has always had a large number of pro-americans, and opposition to the theocracy.

          «Iran would pull out of the NPT and double-down on a nuclear programme.»

          Not so easily, then the USA and Israel and Saudi Arabia would invade just the region where the factories are, or bomb it to a moon-like status. Also the Supreme Leader has issued a “fatwa” saying that nuclear weapons are forbidden by islamic principles.

          • Yalt

            “One of the goals of USA wars is not to *conquer* a country, but to *punish* it, that is to reduce it to rubble as a lesson to all other countries.”

            An absolutely essential understanding; thank you for stating this so clearly.

  • M.J.

    CNN and the major news networks announced Biden’s victory about an hour ago when decisive results from Pennsylvania came in.
    Ahhhh! Hurrah! The alternative would have been a nightmare for humanity. Instead we have Lincoln’s aspiration at Gettysburg being fulfilled again.
    Relief and joy for not a few people, and even the whole world.
    Now I can think about enjoying The West Wing again!

    • Republicofscotland

      Utter bollocks the Great Satan (Consecutive US Administrations) will continue to reek havoc around the globe under Biden and Harris, subverting democracy and socialism at every turn.

  • Jon+Musgrave

    I reckon Trump is too far up his own arse to think he might ever fail – that and the sycophants and arse-lickers he surrounded himself with will have been needed his mono-mania. Anyway the “mango Mussolini” (thanks to Wee Ginger Dog for that one) is soon to be a footnote in history as one of few one-term presidents.
    Hopefully whatever Biden’s failings he will be a vast improvement over Trump – for one thing he will be willing to engage positively with democratic foreign staes rather then trump and his fetish for dictators and right-wing hard men.

    • T

      Every U. S. president has had that fetish. Unrealistic to expect corporate clown and architect of the Iraq war Biden to be any different.

  • Emile

    Wonder what will happen if ‘Uncle Joe’ goes after the guns (excepting ‘BLM’/’Antifa’ guns). You would have to be nuts to disarm. We all know what happened in South Africa/Rhodesia. It seems as if the USA is being destroyed internally. Trump will have the last laugh.

  • Anonish

    As much as I’m hoping some of the populist fanaticism that came with Trump will die down as his voice becomes less prevalent, it feels like the extremes of language and belief have already become embedded in a large portion of the American public’s minds and won’t be going away any time soon. To the right, everyone who supports Biden is a communist. To the left, everyone who supports Trump is a fascist.

    The ‘alt right’ might have been the justifiably concerning zeitgeist of the last decade, but I’ve been seeing a worrying rise in extremist far left groups over this year as well. What started as a worthy cause and sentiment in the official Black Lives Matter group has become heavily politicised and hijacked by Antifa – raising millions of dollars from well-meaning people and funneling what they don’t spend on bailing domestic terrorists into the Democratic campaign. That this group are such significant benefactors to a political party – a group who have spent the last six months burning local businesses to the ground; committing senseless acts of violence against innocent people they dislike; intimidating outside diners to raise a fist to their cause; sharing personal details of conservative people for harassment and threats – should be very unnerving indeed. I don’t know what their end-goal is but it’s not going to be anything to do with upholding the values of democracy, personal freedom and expression. Biden’s impending victory has shown no signs of stopping their aggression.

    Worrying still are Tweets from well-respected Democrat figures and supporters calling for Trump voters to be compiled into a list so that they can be “held accountable”. So far this seems to be in terms of ensuring that anyone endorsing Trump will never be allowed to hold a position in politics, but enough is still left to the imagination that merely the fact that a list is being compiled will have a strongly anti-democratic chilling effect.

    On the other side of the fence there’s ultra-nationalist gun nuts and survivalists just waiting for an excuse to get involved in a civil war. Now that the election is over, if Biden continues to allow Antifa to run riot and intimidate common people, we’re going to get more cases like Kyle Rittenhouse, where vigilante groups will take up arms to protect property which the police aren’t and clash violently with the extremists on the left.

    I’m hoping things may settle down as the election hysteria passes, but there’s a lot of anger on both sides which is either going to fizzle out as people regain some perspective, or boil over spectacularly. Right now I’m not sure which. I’ve a feeling the ‘far left’ will become a troubling answer to the ‘far right’ over the next few years.

    As much of a cliche as it is to blame social media, I really do think that a platform which favours emotive language and extremes of opinion over ‘boring’ moderate conversation is a huge contributor to all of this over-simplified anger. It’s as disappointing and frustrating as ever to see people tearing each other apart over problems they could be addressing together, whilst being played by their respective football team political parties.

      • Anonish

        Neither is destruction of property and public intimidation. Violent revolutions only promote people with a talent for violence.

        • T

          Only an arch reactionary would think that is the alternative to corporate oligarchy. Why not try basic representative democracy? Or would that be un-American in your book?

          • Foster

            ‘representative democracy’!? What do you mean? When you have skewed and gerrymandered the population to get you chosen candidate in place. ‘representative democracy’ when it suits you more like.

          • Anonish

            That’s exactly what I *would* like. As explained, my concerns are with the reactionaries precisely.

          • jake

            It’s called “enhanced democratisation”…it’s for our own good and will keep us all safe.

          • lysias

            Athenian democracy was truly representative. They chose representatives and most officials by lot from the whole citizen body.

          • nevermind

            Lysias, the representative Greek establishment voted for their own agenda, not for the slaves who had no vote, working in the fields whilst the Lordy’s were throwing coloured pebbles into a pot.
            I am alwYs astonished at the picture book democracy models that are pervading the western world. 5 seconds of voting is not democratic when you are voting on fine promises and a good looking mugshot of a party political candidate with an armfull of other agendas the voters knows very little about, still, in the 21st. century.

  • PaddyT

    Peace in Ireland now guaranteed and Johnson slapped down , Biden’s comment “He is a clone of Trump” sums up his disdain

  • Goose

    Amazing how stark the division is:

    74.8 million votes for Biden
    70.6 million votes for Trump

    Biden won California by 4.3 million votes, without that atypical result it’s virtually neck and neck with 70 million each

    • Goose

      The pollsters were way out – again. Not sure if his healthy leads helped or hindered though. But given the fact polling can be so influential (many like to be on the winning side) definitely a case for limiting it. Can be used as a sly form of propaganda.

      Polling could be used to hinder any future Scottish independence referendum, given who owns the companies.

    • Blissex

      «Biden won California by 4.3 million votes, without that atypical result»

      In 2016 D Trump won the popular vote (even if it is not representative of popular will because of non-symmetric bias due to FPTP) in every state except California too. Some Democratic activists boasted this was thanks to their efforts to organize the vote of illegal immigrants.

      D Trump’s victory in 2016 was due to winning some big states by 1%, and in 2020 he just lost them by 1%.

      Perhaps because of Democratic cheating: after all every Democratic activist who did not organize voting fraud must be feeling very guilty today for not having done the decent thing and having so risked the victory of a vicious monstrous tyrant who was an existential threat to democracy, the USA and humanity’s continued existence. 🙂

  • 6033624

    I see that ‘The Independent’ has an interesting piece on suggesting Biden should pardon Trump in the same way and for the same reasons as for Nixon. Unlike Nixon, though, Trump has no ‘particular’ case to answer in a court of law. Would he even take it offered? As we know his confidence far outweighs his abilities.

    If not pardoned would any court in the US actually bring charges against a former President? We see this in other nations that are decried as corrupt (and some that aren’t) bringing former Presidents and Prime Ministers to court over corruption and misappropriation of funds. I could be wrong but I don’t believe that any former leader of either the US or the UK has ever been brought to justice for crimes committed whilst in office. It’s not that they don’t happen, our close neighbours in France have taken action on their leaders – I don’t think that UK and US are unusually honest, perhaps they are unusually good at being corrupt and don’t get caught?

  • nullis

    The idea is that by electing Biden, everything is back to normal. Corporate interests and oligarchs get back to their purchasable politicians. Secrets, previously exposed, can be re-hidden. The career politicians are back in charge, able to vote until they retire, then pull in the foundations and think tank posts to fund their retirement. State department can go back to running color revolutions, so the hedge fund investors can pick up cheap commodity producers.

    Except, nothing will be the same. If the constitution and American institutions don’t protect the choices and ideals of Americans, what use are they? Biden coming in, on the back of a flawed election system that left the appearance of illegitimacy, even if it was all done correctly, will stand in front of 48% of Americans and will not be able to persuade them – a lame duck, who will push the corporatist’s globalist agenda and slowly raise the ire, not just of the Trumpists, who already see him as illegitimate, but also of a left that starts to understand that globalism is not in the interest of working people, and that ‘college-educated’ are selling them out on lines of ‘thought purity’.

    Trump means the apathy has gone. Politicians and institutions are under scrutiny. Cosy old Congress, and pals-act Senate are under scrutiny. The backlash against the political careerists, and the interagency is not over, and nothing is now the same.

    • Goose

      Trump for all his bluster and twitter rants, didn’t trouble the ‘Deep State’ much at all. Mike Pompeo and John Bolton are as deep state as it gets and they ended up US Secretary of State and National Security Adviser respectively. The one person who could have guided Trump, former White House strategist Steve Bannon was forced to submit his resignation in lieu of being fired, in what seems like an early fit of pique(Aug 2017), allegedly because of derogatory remarks Bannon made questioning Ivanka’s intelligence.

  • Gavin C Barrie

    Aye, Boris will be rehearsing his pronunciation – Salve, Mr President Bid-on… splutter splash….Mr President Bye-don. I have always been a supporter of your… er um,strategies, yes strategies for, ….er um.

    jJings, if only my… um.. parents had sent me… um… to Eton, what a chancer I could have become.

    Enjoying your comments Tatyana.

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