Ukraine (Date: Nov. 2023)


Latest News Forums Discussion Forum Ukraine (Date: Nov. 2023)

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  • #98300 Reply
    ET

      “These type of lunatics should not run countries, they are way too immature.”

      They don’t. American vested (corporate) interests “influence” what they say. I would say that those vested interests seek money, but it’s more subtle than that. What they seek are the resources in Russia whislt in the interim they make money selling arms to all sides, siphoning off american tax payers and the rest of the (mostly western) world’s tax payers. If they were to get hold of those resources they would further enhance their stranglehold on every aspect of living and sell it as a service. Were they to gain a foothold in what is now Russian territory then they are right on top of China.

      My money is on Russia and China. America has enjoyed protection from the two oceans and thus didn’t really experience modern warfare on its own territory for the years through WWI/WWII and as a consequence of that geographical advantage became a runaway civilisation for a time, runaway in the technical/cultural/military/economic sense. That time is now about to come to an end. China has caught up scientifically/technically and has a military to hold its own and will soon surpass, and Russia, not far behind in all those metrics, has always managed to be there or there abouts militarily and scientifically is now rapidly upscaling its economic/technical/cultural influence. Modern tech has (almost) obliterated that advantage America enjoyed from it’s ocean protection from assault. America is pushing for the last war that won’t involve consequences on its own territory and with the last throw of the dice is trying to impress the casino and its supplicants. Hence the internal panic. If that dice rolls unfavourably they lose all. The casino supplicants will walk away when the flash guy loses. They’ll move to the next guy on a winning streak. Britain, France and Germany play the role of the “high end” casino supplicants. Other countries, such as Ireland, play a lesser role.

      #98301 Reply
      AG

        There is one fundamental problem with us here trying to argue against the lunatic Western public:
        The West is convinced that Ukraine is/was a role model democracy before Febr. 2022 which was ambushed and that without any fault of its own.
        They do not understand/or conceal the fact that were the democracy assertion true this war would have never taken place.
        But this is the reason why any comparison in their eyes with Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc. are not adequate because those countries – unlike “their Ukraine” – were supposed to be liberated from autocratic/dictorial regimes.

        This is part and parcel of any discussion and frame of argumentation.

        #98310 Reply
        AG

          Not sure what to make of this, via Anrei Martynaov:

          “(…)
          NEW YORK, May 31. /TASS/. The Clooney Foundation for Justice, an organization founded by American actor George Clooney and his wife Amal Clooney, wants to get the European Union and the International Criminal Court (ICC) to arrest Russian journalists abroad. Anna Neistat, an employee of the Clooney Foundation, said this in an interview with the Voice of America radio station (recognized as a foreign agent media in the Russian Federation). According to her, the foundation intends to petition the ICC to initiate criminal cases against Russian journalists who cover events in Ukraine in a pro-Russian manner. The Foundation also wants to encourage individual EU countries to initiate criminal prosecution against Russian journalists for “war propaganda.” Neistat called this method more practical, since it will allow “the issuance of closed arrest warrants.” “This is important because we do not want these people to know about such a warrant, on the contrary, we want them to travel to other countries and be arrested there,” she explained. Neistat added that her organization intends to carry out similar actions against all Russian media workers, including “chief and non-chief editors,” those who speak “on air or on their pages on social networks.”
          (…)”

          #98312 Reply
          Jack

            Yeah clooney and his wife is a sketchy couple, typical U2 Bono fake humanitarian type of people.
            And if the clooneys’ are serious why then are they not going against also ukrainian journalists calling for genocide against russians like this nutcase?:

            Ukrainian news anchor quotes Adolf Eichmann, calls for genocide against Russians
            https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/17/ukre-m17.html
            Video
            https://www.facebook.com/RusMissionGeneva/videos/a-ukrainian-24-tv-host-fakhrudin-sharafmal-calls-for-massacre-of-moskals-includi/930208630996547/

            Not to mention why are they not going after israeli journalits that justify and urge large scale killing of civilians?

            #98313 Reply
            Tatyana

              AG
              Simply amazing. How will it look like? I’m not a journalist, just for clarity:
              I’ll come to some country, let it be Scotland. I’ll be arrested (where? at the airport? or will the airport staff report my arrival to the police? or, directly to the CIA?)
              I will be informed that a warrant has SECRETLY been issued for me, of which I was not notified (is this even legal?)
              So, they are going to detain me for the fact that I am 1. Russian; 2. I write reports covering my point of view from the inside of these events.
              Then, I wonder, what are they going to do then? Put me into prison, like they did with Assange? Kill me in that prison, like they did with Gonsalo Lira?
              That is, freedom of speech has ended?
              Looks like Gestapo methods, to me.

              #98354 Reply
              Tatyana

                I cane across today an article about Gudrun Burwitz, the daughter of Heinrich Himmler. She died in 2018. There was a mention of her organisation ‘Viking-Jugend’, created in 1954 and banned in 1994.

                That made me think about strange collection of tattoos we have seen recently. Here and there nazi symbols are tattooed next to Viking symbols.
                Any ideas?

                #98363 Reply
                Jack

                  If only this type of protest movement could spread throughout the west

                  Huge anti-war rally in NATO member’s capital (VIDEOS)

                  Hungarians don’t want to “shed blood” for Ukraine, Prime Minister Viktor Orban told a large crowd in Budapest

                  Hundreds of thousands participated in a peace march in Hungary’s capital, Budapest on Saturday, denouncing the EU’s policy of escalating tensions with Russia.

                  Orban said his country must draw lessons from the devastation it went through the darkest times of the 20th century. “In the two world wars, the Hungarians lost 1.5 million lives, and with them – their future children and grandchildren,” he told the crowd.

                  “I’m saying this slowly so that Brussels would understand: we will not go to war. We will not go to the East for a third time, we will not go to the Russian front again.”

                  https://swentr.site/news/598644-budapest-peace-march-nato/

                  #98367 Reply
                  Tatyana

                    Curiously, in our news this Hungarian protest was reported with another point – Orban suggests to create a Transatlantic movement for Peace.

                    #98370 Reply
                    michael norton

                      Interestingly Three connected countries are not falling for war, war, war, Serbia, Hungary and Slovakia.
                      The Slovak Prime minster was targeted in a shooting, Orban is demonised and financially penalised, Yugoslavia is now known as “The Former Yugoslavia”
                      The largest U.S.A. base in the Balkans is known as Campbondsteel

                      Camp Bondsteel is the operation headquarters of the Kosovo Force (KFOR) in Kosovo, Serbia.
                      I think there is a message there?

                      #98375 Reply
                      AG

                        …while in Germany some papers are again trying to spin yet another war crime by the RUs.
                        The idea behind it of course, no peace negotiation.
                        This in conjunction that the RU offensive is again failing.

                        It´s tiring.

                        Russigate, Syria, Skripals, MH17, Navalny´s poisoning, Bucha, Mariupol´s hospital and theatre, etc.
                        Every single time reporting is being manipulated with the complicity of the media people, reporting events on the basis either by Western intelligence or some PR-campaign which again is an intelligence operation.

                        I just don´t get how this is possible without ANYONE from media staff asking questions. These are many thousand indviduals.

                        E.g. Mariupol theatre: AP agency seriously reported 600 killed back when it happened. From 1,200 allegedly there. 600. Eventually Amnesty with a report said 12 (still no real evidence.) But just look at those numbers, 600 vs. 12 and that former is by a huge news agency. Those are reporters, stringers, editors, photographers etc.

                        Bucha too started out with 400+. Now its´unclear was it 40 or 20 and by whom and why. And here it can´t be more official with the UN probing.

                        But of course there is no way to find out what did happen in an indisputable manner – at least for Westerners to be accepted.

                        At least with MH17 the court said there is no case.
                        And the British judge threw out the Skripal case as well.
                        And we also know from official side now that Seymour Hersh was right.
                        We know about Russiagate (even if that never played much of a role in Germany – at least as far as I remember.)

                        So we know some things on official level. Which have been “admitted.”. Some examples can be proven to be fake.
                        And with that we could actually prove to others that something is entirely wrong in the big picture.
                        Because where it has been pierced, the truth is slowly dripping out.

                        But the division among the Western publics is like concrete. You only need a trigger term and at once those who hate Putin, go on hating Putin, and then the others.

                        No understanding possible.

                        Would Germans know that the same news manipulation is happening with Gaza/Israel you could tell them “compare”. But even that is impossible since whatever the IDF says it´s gold standard. Same with Ukrainian media as our sources, which oddly are always the same – Kiev Post and Kiev Independent – which are objectively known to not be independet and funded by us. And what nobody is questioning how they are getting their reports together on the ground THERE. It´s like God given.

                        And the fact that those Ukrainian news come from a place without opposition parties without non-government media reporting on TV – no serious reporting at all in fact – it goes by unnoticed. People in fact know – but are not able/willing to connect the dots.

                        why?

                        #98386 Reply
                        Jack

                          NATO member OK’s using its jets to strike Russia

                          Unlike Belgium, the Netherlands will not limit Ukraine in how it deploys donated F-16s, the kingdom’s defense minister has said

                          https://swentr.site/news/598682-dutch-fighter-jets-ukraine/


                          What I do not get is how west could freely move big fighter jets into Ukraine…. I mean, why are not Russia targeting these highly visible vehicles as soon as they are being flown into Ukraine, destroying the threat instantly? And why are Russia not taking out every airstrip for these fighter jets to land/take off from?
                          Have anyone a good reason for Russia’s reluctance to carry out these no-brainer move? Or have I missed something?

                          #98390 Reply
                          Tatyana

                            Jack, the Netherlands say they allow Ukraine to use donated F-16s, but they haven’t donated yet.
                            ______
                            We have a poster on Pikabu who makes short news summaries. He ends his reports with two entries, so we know that complete Armageddon has not yet occurred.
                            – status of the gas pipe running through Ukraine: ok
                            – Poland is 100% whole

                            #98392 Reply
                            Tatyana

                              AG, re.

                              https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/topic/ukraine-date-nov-2023/page/13/#post-98310

                              George Clooney appears to be denying early reports that his organization will target Russian journalists. He said that someone expressed themselves incorrectly, or were misunderstood.
                              If you could check? I cannot access Twitter again.

                              https://twitter.com/ClooneyFDN/status/1797523627472265231

                              However, the message contained too many details to be misunderstood, IMO. I googled, it was Anna Neistat, a former Russian now living in New York. In Russia, she worked at ‘Echo of Moscow’, an opposition liberal media popularly nicknamed ‘Echo of Matza’ because of the consonance in the Russian language and because of the abundance of employees with Jewish roots (by the way, Anna’s profile on the Russian social network shows among her friends a woman with the same last name Neistat and place of residence Jerusalem).

                              In the organization on whose behalf she made a statement about the persecution of Russian journalists, Anna is the director of legal affairs.
                              She was also senior director of research for Amnesty International and also was a deputy director for emergencies in Human Rights Watch.
                              A truly impressive legal and human rights background for a person who wants to seek closed court orders against journalists.

                              #98406 Reply
                              AG

                                TATYANA

                                As far as I can see it (I am not on TWITTER), it´s just a sorry press release:

                                “In regard to recent reports about Russian journalists, someone in our foundation misspoke. I’m the son of a journalist. We at the Clooney Foundation would never go after journalists, even if we disagree with them. In fact we have a long track record of protecting journalists.”

                                — G. Clooney, Co-Founder

                                To me this sounds like the usual statement by someone who is representing / lending his name to the cause but has no real insight/control over day-to-day business there. Which shouldn´t surprise since making movies is hard work and produces a bubble which cannot cope with too many diversions as serious as these big political conflicts.

                                I do believe he is honest. But that doesn´t mean anything for the realities of the world outside his studio.

                                Wonder what is going on in the NGO for real. Since you are right, these statements do not happen by accident. Whatever the reason.

                                But of course the Foundation I cannot take seriously beyond what it is:
                                https://cfj.org/news/category/in-the-news/

                                Venezuelan terror? seriously? And it´s Russia Russia Russia.

                                To launch this as a Hollywood entrepreneur is schizophrenic. You could never tell the truth even if you wanted to because you would end up jobless. On the other hand, this anti-Russia pro-Palestine stance is the max. for a US-left.

                                These people won´t understand why many of those in the Global South who they think to support regard RU as their resistance fighter.

                                #98426 Reply
                                ET

                                  The Clooney foundation was set up by George Clooney and his wife Amal who is of Lebanese heritage. According to her wiki page Amal Clooney (nee Alamuddin) has long been involved in human rights law. From that wiki page:

                                  “after the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022, Amal led a legal task force created at the request of the Government of Ukraine to provide legal advice on the potential avenues to secure criminal accountability for Russia in national jurisdictions, the ICC, and the United Nations.”

                                  She was also one of the advisors to the ICC and Khan regarding the recent warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant and the three Hamas leaders. Given his wife’s involvement I’d say George is more informed than most, even if heavily biased in favour of western views. I imagine discussions around the dinner table get lively in that house.

                                  #98433 Reply
                                  AG

                                    I don´t know…if I encounter privileged folks and they start to shoot against “Russia” somehow they fall in my personal rating. Even if I personally like and respect them (not Clooney who I don´t know) I know there is an invisible intellectual divide. May be it´s a flaw of mine. But it has been this since my childhood. Though I have never lived in Russia or been exposed to an overwhelming amount of whatever Russian influence.
                                    So when you write, the wife at `the request of the Ukrainian government´ – they have lost me. No serious lawyer would do this unless obliged to, being UN or something like that. But she is a privateer and I assume she can choose her assignments. (I mean come on: the abducted children story – really?). Every single story reeks of manipulation.

                                    #98435 Reply
                                    Tatyana

                                      One absolutely true story:
                                      In 2023 Zelensky ordered his minister Shmygal to work on renaming Russia into Moskovia, because there was a people’s petition which gathered about 70,000 votes.

                                      historic reference:
                                      Hitler’s idea of ‘Lebensraum im Osten’ implied the creation of Reichskommissariat Moskowien.
                                      He even appointed Siegfried Kasche to rule it.
                                      The project failed 🙂
                                      Unlike Reichskommissariat Ukraine.

                                      #98436 Reply
                                      ET

                                        I am not the Clooney’s PR agent and I don’t necessarily agree with with their viewpoints on Ukraine/Russia. The quote I referred to above was from the wiki page. However, Amal Clooney has been involved in law and human rights law for her whole career (read the wiki page). She has had Julian Assange as a client and apparently advised that he could become an Ecuadorian diplomat to get out of the UK, embarrassed Jeremy Hunt as Foreign Sec during a speech organised by his department mentioning the hounding of Assange and according to their Foundation for Justice website they represent journalists and victims of human rights abuses for free.

                                        I am not shilling for either Amal or George but I am pointing out that they are probably more than just lending their name to a cause.

                                        However, the “Docket project” sounds ominous – secretly attaining warrants for the arrest of journalists who promote Russian “war propaganda” using laws in some countries against “war propaganda” to call for arrest warrants so they can be arrested in any country signed up to the ICC. It might not be just Russian journalists but perhaps blog writers like Craig Murray and others, or just people like you and I who post to such forums as this. It does seems to be kicking up a storm.

                                        #98437 Reply
                                        AG

                                          ET

                                          sry if I got across disrespectful…certainly not my intention.
                                          I know that for any of these public personae keeping up their moral standards from before becoming famous is very difficult.
                                          I guess I am a bit tired from all the shit that is raining upon us for 2,5 years now. And I might lack the necessary patience and measuredness.

                                          I appreciate all of the info you bring up since I don´t know anything about these particular folks. So I tend to follow some prejudiced view.

                                          (had a long day)

                                          #98438 Reply
                                          Tatyana

                                            Their website
                                            https://cfj.org/the-docket/
                                            It features Clooney Foundation for Justice; it speaks about atrocities and survivors.

                                            How do I contact Mr or Ms Clooney? I’ve got a case for their employee Ms Neistat.

                                            Kiev shelled a children’s beach near the village of Zugres. 13 people were killed and 30 injured, so she can choose from this number of survivors to make her investigation on mass killing and war crimes. I believe they all consider it’s still a part of Ukraine, so no reason to deny justice, right?

                                            #98442 Reply
                                            ET

                                              AG, I didn’t take any offense at all so no apologies needed. I was just pointing out that Amal Clooney was a prominent human rights lawyer long before she met and married George Clooney and probably warrants some respect for some of the things she has done in her own right, even if the docket project smacks of allowing themselves to be a conduit of western security services and their information war. I think Russia is winning the information war on Ukraine, and surprisingly most people with whom I have seriously discussed the Ukraine war and who care at all do actually see the hypocrisy. One has to be careful.

                                              I posted a reply to your earlier post asking why some many people believe the crap spouted by our esteemed CRAP (Corporatocratic Rapacious Anti-human Propagandist…still working on that acronym) media, but that post got lost in the ether and I didn’t bother re-posting. The fact is most people don’t care as long as their lives in general are not affected. Smug, contented and loyal (to britain), a phrase I was taught in history class describing the Irish population just before the 1916 Easter Uprising. Family and friends frequently ask why I care about this stuff as it has no effect on my life. Which translates to: it has no effect on their lives so why should they bother to care.

                                              The answer to why reminded of Howard Beale’s famous rant about TV on US network television in 1976, brought to you by the replacement of TV by youtube: Turn off your television

                                              And yeah, the precious irony promoting a clip on YT.

                                              #98447 Reply
                                              AG

                                                Tatyana,
                                                would be funny to see their reaction – if there was any – to your email.

                                                p.s. I really hope some group out there is collecting the evidence proving Ukrainian shelling and attacks and debris from anti-missile defense and the casualties and destruction caused.

                                                #98448 Reply
                                                AG

                                                  ET
                                                  Well, Finch did die 1 year later of a heart attack while promoting “Network”.
                                                  Thx for sharing hadn´t seen it in a long time.
                                                  Actually a friend of mine from England loves the movie. One of his favourites.

                                                  #98449 Reply
                                                  Jack

                                                    Yes, as I also mentioned the other day, Russia need to put more energy poiting out their red lines because the west will just escalate and escalate if they see that Russia keep staying passive after every provocatie move taken by the west and Ukraine now:

                                                    Fyodor Lukyanov: Russia needs to explain its ‘red lines’ to the West
                                                    The US-led bloc will probably keep escalating unless Moscow firmly outlines how it plans to respond
                                                    https://swentr.site/russia/598670-russia-west-red-lines/

                                                    They need to call up the americans and europeans have some long serious talks.

                                                    #98456 Reply
                                                    Tatyana

                                                      Jack, if Russia comes out with a story about its red lines now, then the Western media will present it as an act of aggressive rhetoric.
                                                      You follow the events, and most people do not. Please look just above: ET talks about this – people do not care until it directly affects them – and I completely agree with this.

                                                      Russian media are banned in the West. Russia has few platforms left where the state can explain its point of view without it getting distorted. How many people watch broadcasts from the UN halls?
                                                      Most just watch news about Russia as retold by their Western media. How many have heard of the Minsk agreements?

                                                      Do you remember Putin giving an interview to Mr. Carlson? He tried to avoid distortions and began with historical background. Oh, that expression on Mr. Carlson’s face 🙂
                                                      Putin clearly said in that interview that the US controls the global media. Controls the narrative.

                                                      People do not know the background of the conflict, people have a vague idea of ​​the region. They just want to know who the “bad guy”.
                                                      And I assure you, if Russia now comes out with a statement that we are ready to use nuclear weapons in case X, then in their eyes we will simply be “an unhealthy nation with a crazy leader”.
                                                      Just as you know, the war in Ukraine was not provoked.
                                                      Just as Hamas unprovokedly attacked the nice Israelis.

                                                      When your authorities ban another Russian media, remember this.

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