Netanyahu Continues Vicious

by craig on April 24, 2014 6:27 pm in Uncategorized

I should start by saying that I deeply regret, and have always regretted, the support for Hamas amongst Palestinians.  I view Hamas as a nasty organization espousing an unpleasant and narrow version of Islam, and far too ready to turn to violence.  I regret the passing of the secular minded and sophisticated wide culture of the urbane Palestinian elite of my youth.

I understand that Palestinian willingness to embrace the limiting certainties of Hamas is due to the appalling pressure caused by decades of unspeakable violence and repression by Israel, the squeezing of Palestinians into ever-shrinking over-crowded reservations, the killings, the continual unrelenting humiliation, the deliberate destruction of all economic base.  I understand Hamas won support through social programmes.  I understand the extreme corruption of the Fatah leadership, where some seemed to do very nicely out of the disaster that repressed everybody else.  I understand the role of Israel and the US in promoting the initial growth of Hamas to weaken the Palestinian cause.  My regret is that they succeeded.

Personally I doubt that this latest Hamas/Fatah rapprochement will last any longer than the previous ones.  Even for a people in the direst situation, there will always be self-seeking sociopaths emerging as leaders.

But even with all that, the appalling smug reaction of Netanyahu is sickening.  Israel at no stage had the slightest intention of entering any meaningful peace process, stopping settlement building, or reducing the dispossession and discrimination suffered by Arabs of all sorts within Israel itself.  The World’s most vicious and unrelenting theological and racist state continues to be just that.  The United States was not in any sense genuinely involved in abetting a peace process; it was managing the process of genocide of the Palestinians, drawn out over decades, just conducted with enough disguise to allow the mainstream media to pretend it is not happening.

I do not like Hamas, but they remain morally superior to Netanyahu on every conceivable measure.

Tweet this post

180 Comments

  1. doug scorgie

    24 Apr, 2014 - 6:47 pm

    Not much hope of restarting “peace talks”

    “Israeli minister Bennett says Fatah-Hamas unity deal makes Palestinian Authority ‘largest terror group in the world’”

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-to-pull-pa-funds-if-hamas-does-not-moderate-reports/

  2. Hamas are freedom fighters. If not for them the plague would have spread.

  3. Spot on Craig. The attempted slow motion extermination of the Palestinians. is one of the most disgusting crimes of the ‘modern’ world.

  4. lucythediclonius

    24 Apr, 2014 - 7:24 pm

    Subeditor needed for the first paragraph

  5. lucythediclonius

    24 Apr, 2014 - 7:40 pm

    I regret the (passing of) the secular minded and sophisticated wide culture of the urbane Palestinian elite of my youth.
    suggested amendment in brackets if I read your intention right

  6. Lucy

    I believe that what I wrote means what you said – perhaps I am using regret in a fashion now arcane. Anyway, have made the edit you helpfully suggest to be clear!

  7. lucythediclonius

    24 Apr, 2014 - 8:17 pm

    Tricky business subediting I can just about get that reading.Good sentiment though I was beginning to wonder if secular minded Palestinians were a figment of my imagination.

  8. Excellent post, Craig. At least on Palestine we can agree 100 per cent!

  9. Fantastic post – completely agree.

    What did John Kerry think he could ever achieve?

    Israel will never accept any peace settlement. Divest and sanctions are the only way.

  10. Meet Dave, Your Christian ‘Dyno-Rod’
    But don’t expect him to unblock the Holy Land sewer
    by Stuart Littlewood
    April 23rd, 2014

    Over the Easter holidays the UK’s prime minister, David Cameron, was on his knees “doing God” in the run-up to European elections. And he sparked a great commotion in the media by claiming Britain is “a Christian country”.

    Cameron wrote in the Church Times http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2014/17-april/comment/opinion/my-faith-in-the-church-of-england : “I believe we should be more confident about our status as a Christian country…. more evangelical about a faith that compels us to get out there and make a difference to people’s lives.” Belief in Christianity, he said, could inspire us to change people’s lives and improve both the spiritual, physical, and moral state of the world.

    He has certainly helped make a big difference to people’s lives across the globe. Cameron was among those who stupidly voted for war with Iraq, which caused mega-death and destruction, shredded the lives of everyone there and wrecked their ancient civilisation. He went on the prod in Libya with generally disastrous consequences for its people. He was itching to bomb Syria but, mercifully, Parliament stopped him. And he has inflicted vicious sanctions on the Iranians, with the intention of ruining their economy, for no reason except Israel and America wished it. Now he wants to mix it with the Russians without knowing the facts.

    /..
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/23/meet-dave-your-christian-dyno-rod/http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/04/23/meet-dave-your-christian-dyno-rod/

    The comments are good too.

    ~~

    The opening of the 10pm News was unwatchable. Huw Edwards presenting, Jeremy Bowen with Netanyahu (with bits of film of Hamas and the IDF in action) and all the while the Americans being portrayed as the peacemakers who have failed in spite of all of Kerry’s efforts!

  11. Wonderfully written piece, Craig. Thank you. Hamas is indeed, not my first choice for leadership, and does, as you say, espouse a narrow view of Islam. But equally, had the Palestinians not been pushed, had the PLO not been made powerless there would have been no need for Hamas. So Israel has only itself to blame for their rise to power – the people saw them as a group that was prepared to stand up to Israel, even if they didn’t like the way they were doing it, as I’m sure they don’t.

    (And as for your comment on Lucy’s post – I agree with you both. I think that this particular use of “regret” is out of fashion & so misunderstood. I would have used the word “miss”)

  12. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    24 Apr, 2014 - 11:42 pm

    Re Mary’s post at 22h11, two comments:

    1/. What exactly is wrong about Cameron saying that Britain is a Christian country and that we should feel more confident about our status as a Christian country? The majority of British people are, at least nominally, of the Christian faith and adherents of other religions are a minority (and not even a very large minority). Would Mary bother to write in and protest if the Presidents of, say, Iran or Pakistan said that Iran and Pakistan are Muslim countries? It would only be objectional if that statement were accompanied by political, economic, civic or religious discrimination against non-Christians.

    2/. I also happened to see The News at 10 this evening and fail to see why Mary is getting her knickers in a twist. The news story this evening is that Israel is apparently suspending/ending the current round of peace talks and therefore it is hardly surprising that the Israeli Prime Minister should have been interviewed. I suspect she found the news item “unwatchable” (but she nevertheless watched it) mainly because Bowen failed to condemn the Israeli action – which is not his or the BBC’s job. But she can of course correct me with more detailed analysis if she feels I dozed off for a crucual minute or two during the item.

  13. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    24 Apr, 2014 - 11:45 pm

    By the way, I should have added that Dr Hanan Ashrafi – of whom I’m sure you’ve all heard – was also given airtime for the Palestinian reaction (and not much less time than was given to Netanyahu if memory serves.
    I note that Mary forgot to mention that in her very careful analysis!

  14. BrianFujisan

    25 Apr, 2014 - 1:26 am

    Well it’s deffo Netenyahu…

    i wonder what spy lip-reading translators are on per hour…

    Hab is that not an old thing of your’s… the Lady’s Under ware thing…. Give it a rest eh.

    Netenyahu was talking to a family in the West Bank settlement of Ofra. While he thought the cameras weren’t running he let his true colours really shine through and boasted about derailing the Oslo peace process, described American forieng policy as easily manipulated and said the only way to deal with the Palestinians was “beat them up, not once but repeatedly, beat them up so it hurts so badly, until it’s unbearable”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TG0vdzrmt4

  15. Is it true that Israeli intellegence sources claim to run Hamas? Indeed, it might even have been Netanyahu who made such a claim. I ask in open enquiry, I genuinely don’t know. The world of the security services is strange indeed. I’m reading about Kim Philby just now, and the skullduggery is astounding.

    I still recall Natanyahu from Gulf War 1. Yup, he was an oft-quoted spokesman on the bbc, giving us his insights, if I recall correctly, on an almost daily basis. Interesting that he became so powerful isn’t it? One might say he was being fast-tracked from a very early age. He was – and is – hugely articulate and smart, of course, but that’s to be expected.

  16. Great post Craig.

    But be prepared for a Habba and Co induced troll inundation.

    LOL.

  17. Kelly ben Maimon

    25 Apr, 2014 - 3:52 am

    Have always enjoyed reading your commentary, on a number of topics. Your writing style is incredibly appealing, humourous and witty at times. However, wholeheartedly disagree with your views on Israel 110%, AND always will. As for Jives’ contribution “…be prepared for a Habba and co induced troll inundation. LOL.” Whatever old chap.. Incidentally, can you hurry up with tea, as I’m sure some of us would like a drink. Thanking you in advance, of course.

  18. @
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/netanyahu-continues-vicious/#comment-454074

    Here is the recording of last night’s 10pm News on BBC1 available until 10.30pm tonight.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0414p8f/BBC_News_at_Ten_24_04_2014/

    I did find the segment ‘unwatchable’ as I said and switched off. I had not seen the follow up with Bowen live in Jerusalem speaking to Edwards in the studio until seeing the recording just now.

    The whole segment, including opening headlines, lasted for over 6 minutes. I must have blinked when the Palestinian lady came on! That was all of 20 seconds.

    It was yet another ZBC ‘Israel Says’ production in which Netanyahu dominated. The only thing missing was the loquacious and lying Regev.

  19. Agree with you Craig. Netanyahu does not want peace. The peace process is a means of ethnic cleansing slowly but surely and making the facts on the ground what they are. There is no state left for the Palestinians. There are two open air prisons with the odd village still to be cleansed in between.
    Had there been the UN & TV around during the Indian wars in the early US , it would have been a similar situation.We’ve been watching it happen since 1947 and before.Instead of punishing Israel the EU give them special status.The only real Semites in Israel, the Bedouin, are also being dispossessed but Israel has the patent on “anti-semitism”.
    And with the Israeli mindset,(the Samson option)they’ll destroy the whole place rather than share or hand it back.
    And Blair,The White Hse and Congress support this fascist mafia that run the land of milk and honey.But there are glimmers of hope. People like Shlomo Sand, Gilad Atzmon and Ilan Pappe are a constant thorn reminding the Israeli’s that they’ve become what they hated most.

  20. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 7:39 am

    Jives

    “But be prepared for a Habba and Co induced troll inundation.”
    ___________________

    Do grow up.

  21. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 7:55 am

    Mary (06h45)

    Yes, anyone who’s interested should watch the while of the BBC’s news item – it’s always a good idea to watch the whole of an item (and not just a “segment”)before commenting on its content and balance.

    For example, there were also shots of Israeli police manhandling Palestinian demonstrators, which I should hardly have thought constituted pro-Israel propaganda.

    Two further points:

    - Regev is a govt spokesman: spokesmen usually speak in the absence of their master. In the news item, Nehanyahu spoke so there hardly seems to have been a need for his spokesman to appear as well

    - how does Mary think such a news item should be run? Should every such item be preceded by a scholarly disquisition on the origins and history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

    Mary’s comments tend to suffer by often focussing on form rather than on content.

  22. Check back to what I said why don’t you.

    “(with bits of film of Hamas and the IDF in action)”

    I could have made much more of the ‘IDF in action’ but refrained.

    Regev is a motormouth and a useful tool who made aliyah from Australia and appears so often on ZBC radio and television, one could assume he is on the payroll. The lines never go down or go dead when he is on as I expect people have noticed. That is not the case with speakers opposing the mainstream line, often cut off in midstream. ‘Oh. We are sorry. We appear to be having trouble with the line there….! So transparent, it’s laughable.

    You are correct Jives about the trolling. Being told to ‘grow up’ by one of them is also laughable.

    ‘Habbabkuk’s comments tend to suffer by ALWAYS focussing on form rather than on content” LOL

  23. Broadly agree with what you say.

    However I hope you are wrong about the merger being ill-fated.

    Regarding the US it is possible to be quite a careful student of the Palestine situation and not realise the extent to which the US load the dice in favour of the Israelis. I’m not sure this applied to Carter but that was a long time ago.

    Clayton Swisher, part of the US team at the Clinton negotiations blew the gaff in his book ‘The Truth about Camp David’.

    Before I read this I had been inclined to agree with the widely accepted view that Arafat blew the negotiations by bad faith. Swisher suggests the Palestinians were put in an impossible situation.

  24. Kelly,

    Than you for the kind remarks. Commenters who disagree with me are always very welcome to express their views. It would be a dull blog otherwise! As I often say, I would worry deeply about anybody who agrees with me about everything, particularly as I, like all honest people, am continually trying to work out the correct response to the changing ethical dilemmas which the world poses.

  25. Zionists accuse the BBC of being pro-Arab (‘Al-Beebera’).

    Anti-Zionists accuse the BBC of being pro-Israel (‘ZBC’).

    What both sides want is a BBC that acts as a mouthpiece for their ‘side’.

    If the BBC upsets them both then it is probably balancing its reporting about right.

  26. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/02/word-palestine-free-bbc

    Least common words, Build and create.

    Detrimentalist not fundamentalist.

    Behave!

  27. @Anon

    Yes, everybody will assume the BBC is biassed rather than they are wrong about something. Cogitative dissonance will mould reality to fit someone’s beliefs.

  28. Craig, what do you mean by “narrow version of Islam”?

    Islam is exactly what it says it is in all of the Qur’an and the Sunnah/Hadith. A “narrow version of Islam” implies that there are parts of the faith that are denied and this could lead to accusations of apostasy. I’d like to see some evidence of Hamas being a narrow branch of Islam. Are there any Muslim critics of Hamas in relation to their conformity with Islam?

    There is no prospect of peace for Palestinian people in a future Palestinian state while they are held in the grip of an intolerant belief system and under the thumb of a military aggressor that wishes to dispossess them of all their lands.

  29. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 10:35 am

    Any attempt at reunification of Hamas and Fatah must appal Israel. It’s been Israel’s consistent objective to keep the Palestinians as clearly divided as possible. I hope the Palestinians now realise that unity is strength (though, like Craig, I’m not optimistic and there will always be splinter groups to fire a bottle rocket into an Israeli field and be equated with Hamas in the Israeli subconscious.

    Israeli spite was manifested, as usual, after the announcement:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9hxbPJrotiAJ:http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Palestinians-IAF-strike-in-Gaza-wounds-four-350199%2Bgaza+strike&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&hl=en&ct=clnk&gws_rd=cr
    They didn’t say who they were aiming at, though it would probably have been Hamas, and in any case they missed, killing civilians. Again.

    Where’s our Northern Ireland hero* when you need him? Wasn’t MEDIAtor Blair in favour of including the IRA in peace talks? No sign of that approach here.

    * No, I don’t mean Mo Mowlem. She just did the hard work and took the risks. I mean the pretty straight kinda guy who took all the credit.

  30. Unless someone has visited Gaza (well nigh impossible now unless you work for the media) or lived there, they can have no appreciation of what a physical hellhole it is where 1.7m people are imprisoned. Yet lives are lived somehow and the people possess ‘sumud’. Daily there are outages of power, undrinkable water and reliance on UNWRA for basic foodstuffs.

    How much longer Netanyahu before these ‘drugged cockroaches in a bottle’, as Eitan described them, are released?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumud

    Rafael Eitan, 75, Ex-General and Chief of Staff in Israel, Dies
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/obituaries/24eitan.html?_r=0

    So far in 2014, 18 Gaza Palestinians have been killed and 110 injured in Israeli attacks
    http://www.imemc.org/article/67268

  31. http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/kelly-ben-maimon/49/341/94a

    Wonder which government and relations with whom? Hope it’s not Kensington Green!

  32. Jemand – well, to give a single example, the punishment for adultery prescribed in the Koran is not death, it is a short period of confinement. The Koran is actually way in advance of its time in equality of women (remember Muhammad’s wife was an older woman and a merchant in her own right). What has happened to Islam is it has been overlain by practices which are purely tribal custom – just as David Cameron’s policies have bugger all to do with Christianity.

    In a wider sense, the great cosmopolitan culture in which Omar Khayyam, Rumi and Ibd Sinna worked (to name but three) which was way in advance of the West in its day, got crushed by the obscurantism of an uneducated clergy who gained tribal influence.

    A large topic. Forgive the cartoon description.

  33. A question for the particularly fervent Israel obsessives:

    I’ve had a quick look at the IHRRI country rankings by human rights record and there are about 154 countries below Israel on that list. I very seldom see any of you comment on any one of those countries, and never with the intense animosity you reserve for the Jewish homeland.

    Why do you single out Israel in this regard? I could understand were you Palestinian, but you live comfortable lives thousands of miles away in places like Surrey and yet of all the places in the world you could exercise your considerable spare time to admonish, you go for Israel, every time.

    Why is that?

  34. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 11:53 am

    there are about 154 countries below Israel on that list.

    And 55 above it, including China, and the Russian Federation. Only 1% behind is Venezuela… Indicating a pretty low bar, which Israel, though asserting its aspirations to join the EU, fails to clear. Perhaps if Israel didn’t make such a fuss about being a beacon of democracy and civilised values yadayada, it might be easier to overlook its private shooting range in Gaza, its thousands of prisoners held indefinitely without charge or access, or its clandestine nukes.

    And I note that many who deplore the dual standards on which Israel operates, and its creeping ethnic cleansing, are just as free with their criticism of inconsistencies in their own countries.

    You want to be judged as a pluralistic democracy? Be one. Meanwhile, here comes the cavalry to apply yet more pressure to the dispossessed. John Wayne meets fish in barrel.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/24/us-palestinian-israel-idUSBREA3N0IN20140424

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/24/us-palestinian-israel-idUSBREA3N0IN20140424

  35. Anon

    I think you will find that ranking excludes what happens in Gaza and West Bank, where Israel makes life hell for the people. That might give you a clue.

  36. Craig

    Palestine is 87th.

  37. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 12:08 pm

    Palestine is 87th.

    Suddenly Palestine exists! If only as a sink for embarrassing statistics…

    Doesn’t address Craig’s point though, does it?

  38. “And 55 above it, including China, and the Russian Federation. Only 1% behind is Venezuela… Indicating a pretty low bar, which Israel, though asserting its aspirations to join the EU, fails to clear. Perhaps if Israel didn’t make such a fuss about being a beacon of democracy and civilised values yadayada, it might be easier to overlook its private shooting range in Gaza, its thousands of prisoners held indefinitely without charge or access, or its clandestine nukes.”

    China and Russia are marginally above Israel, and yet China receives no criticism here and of course the sun shines out of Putin’s arse. Venezuala is another fave and all 154 countries below Israel are barely ever touched upon by the Israel obsessives, excepting Uzbekistan which is of special interest to the blog. You are totally obsessed with Israel.

    Needless to say, Israel is a “beacon of democracy” when compared to the states surrounding it, all of which feature well below it in the rankings.

  39. Mhara Castello

    25 Apr, 2014 - 12:34 pm

    Anon-1st post; “Why do you single out Israel in this regard? I could understand were you Palestinian, but you live comfortable lives thousands of miles away in places like Surrey and yet of all the places in the world you could exercise your considerable spare time to admonish, you go for Israel, every time”.

    “Why is that?”

    Good God. I’m about to throw up. Seriously. No wonder you’re ‘Anon’.

  40. Well written Craig, Netanyahu will destroy his own base by refusing to talk about peace negotiations, his own supporters accuse him having wasted ten years with silence.
    The only thing I find dubious about Hamas is its inception and who was involved. That it now has morphed is also understandable, but who is pulling their strings?

    Now O/T a live ticker in German on the Spiegels website tells me that Kiev, since 11:47 this morning is preparing to blockade, what they call is the centre of the rightwing rebels, Slavajansk. They are also raising the sceptre of WW3 as Russia is trying to stop the rubel loosing value.

    Kiev has been warning Russia this morning that ‘any Russian border violations would be dealt with as a military invasion and the attackers will be destroyed’ Sergey Pashinski said in lieu for the Kiev president.

    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-russland-liveticker-kiew-spricht-von-drittem-weltkrieg-a-966074.html

    The wall street journal paywall speaks of a Local politician who was tortured and murdered after raising the Ukrainian flag against the will of the rebels.
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303380004579521961909153506

    This situation, with Russia’s economy in the dumps, is getting worse every moment and I’m acutely aware that I’m living downwind from the main US logistical hub for their nukes in the EU, at Mildenhall….;)

  41. Mhara Castello

    Re spare time, Surrey, and a fixation with Jews/Israel above all else, you’re probably not familiar with the reference.

    Why “throw up” when you have it pointed out to you that 154 countries below Israel on human rights receive next to no attention from the Israel obsessives here? Are you sick?”

  42. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 12:56 pm

    You are totally obsessed with Israel.

    So are you, by the look of it.

    But I don’t see Freedom ‘n Democracy, Inc, giving $3Bn of its taxpayers’ money to Russia, China, Venezuela et al annually, do you?* I don’t see a slavish regard by our leaders for the finer nuances of Venezuela’s suffering and the importance of ensuring that it becomes the regional superpower, do you? I don’t see the America Russia Public affairs Committee leaning on US congressmen and stuffing their campaign chests with money, do you?

    * Just Egypt, on condition that now that democratic nonsense has been forgotten, it helps Israel blockade Gaza…

    Israel is the closest festering sore we’ve got. Other problems come and go, but Israel has been poisoning the region for – at the kindest estimate – 50 years, and it is being propped up by MY government. I have a right to worry.

  43. Mhara Costello is not as sick as you appear to be, puppy anon.

    Read the thread, has it got anything to do with Kommunist rebels in India or the Phillipines? Does it speak of the forces that challenge Maduro, or of the 200 unfortunate hostages taken by a group of radicals in Nigeria, NO, it is about Netanyahu’s self destructive moves and the worlds arch conflict, not my term. I’d call it fascism.
    try and keep up.

  44. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 1:05 pm

    Israel is a “beacon of democracy” when compared to the states surrounding it, all of which feature well below it in the rankings.

    It’s a beacon of democracy compared to a collection of states which have never pretended to be democracies. Well done you. And it’s 5% ahead of Kazakhstan. Five. Per. Cent. Pfft. Think you’d better tell your boss the IHRRI is antisemitic…

  45. Nevermind

    “Read the thread”

    You’d have a point if every thread not about Israel wasn’t quickly diverted to the favourite hobby horse – Israel.

  46. Nevermind

    Anyone familiar with your dark, Germanic mutterings on these pages knows you are the one with the sick and twisted mind.

    Eg, I disagree with you on the West as the root of all evil and what do you do? Compare me with an American serial rapist and murderer.

    I mention that I have the odd flutter on the horses and what do you say? I will die.

    Just weird.

  47. Baal Zevul etc

    “It’s a beacon of democracy compared to a collection of states which have never pretended to be democracies.”

    Quite. It’s a beacon of democracy compared with the oppressive regimes surrounding it, few of which resemble anything close to a democracy and all of which feature well below Israel in the human rights index.

  48. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 1:33 pm

    Well, my favourite hobby horse is Tony Blair, and it looks as if he’s attracting adverse attention in Saudi Arabia*

    http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20140425203051

    (new, female editor, btw. Can’t think of a mainstream UK paper with a lady boss, can you?)

    *#206 on the IHRRI index, one of our staunchest allies. And yours, Anon, and yours… http://barrylando.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/saudis-backrolling-israels-mossad.html

  49. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 1:37 pm

    Quite. It’s a beacon of democracy compared with the oppressive regimes surrounding it, few of which resemble anything close to a democracy and all of which feature well below Israel in the human rights index.

    Repeating yourself does not make your argument any better. However, if you are content to be judged by the standards of mediaeval theocracies with tribal traditions, that’s fine. And probably more appropriate. Now just stop pretending to be anything else, and we’ll see what we can do about rehabilitating you. We’ll have the 1.25 million guys in that giant prison camp of yours out and enjoying free enterprise with the rest of the world for a start, eh?

  50. grow up anon, my, what you call, dark twisted and sick mutterings, can’t possibly throw you off course.
    If you would stop wriggling when faced with the facts in Gaza, the westbank and East Jerusalem, you would not have to be downright rude to people.

  51. What is backrolling?

    Is it when you ask your unnamed mate as a “good source” for your blog?

  52. Iran 169th
    Syria 212th
    Iraq 184th
    Palestine 87th
    Lebanon 126th
    Turkey 91st

    Now get obsessing!

    Bye for now.

  53. Heard this coming home. Just 5 mins.

    Adie, who has a Tunisian father and who has inherited his mother’s wanderlust, decided that he wanted to see Gaza for himself and find out what was going on. He gives a very graphic account of his slow journey on an aid boat which, as it neared Gaza was suddenly surrounded by Israeli gunships. The usual followed. Then he was knocked about and imprisoned in Israel. The Israelis just hate anyone who tries to help the Palestinians in Gaza.

    ‘Adie and Ruth – Adventure in the Blood
    Duration: 5 minutes
    First broadcast:Friday 25 April 2014
    Fi Glover introduces Adie, who might not have been born if his mother hadn’t set off travelling, and Ruth, who might have had fewer worries if Adie hadn’t inherited her travel bug – another conversation in the series that proves it’s surprising what you hear when you listen.

    The Listening Project is a Radio 4 initiative that offers a snapshot of contemporary Britain in which people across the UK volunteer to have a conversation with someone close to them about a subject they’ve never discussed intimately before. The conversations are being gathered across the UK by teams of producers from local and national radio stations who facilitate each encounter. Every conversation – they’re not BBC interviews, and that’s an important difference – lasts up to an hour, and is then edited to extract the key moment of connection between the participants. Most of the unedited conversations are being archived by the British Library and used to build up a collection of voices capturing a unique portrait of the UK in the second decade of the millennium. You can upload your own conversations or just learn more about The Listening Project by visiting bbc.co.uk/listeningproject

    Producer: Marya Burgess
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0418wyh

  54. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 2:00 pm

    He’s run out of ideas, Nevermind. Doesn’t take long, does it? Sort of like a kid who pisses himself in class: “But, Miss, Johnny did a poo in his trousers yesterday”.

    He could be proud of Israel if it lived up to its fine principles. But it doesn’t, So he blusters.

  55. I’m glad I’m not a Palestinian. What an unenviable fate. But I guess we should encourage the peacemakers in both camps, as best we can.

  56. Your comment above Baal reminded me of the current P Eye cover.

    http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/covers/full/1364_big.jpg

  57. Craig, thanks for your reply, but I’m puzzled. You’re an educated and intelligent man with a wealth of life experience. And you are a keen researcher for your causes and published writing.

    So how am I to make sense of the conflict between what you say about Islam (in this case in regard to adultery) and the many credible sources concerning severe punishments prescribed by Islamic teachings?

    Example 1 -
    http://www.quranexplorer.com/hadith/english/Hadith/dawud/038.4435.html

    Example 2 -
    sunnah.com/abudawud/40/85

    Example 3 -Book 38, Number 4339:
    http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/038-sat.php

    Of course, adultery is just one sin for which severe penalties apply. I’d suggest that you and others here browse through (when you have the time) and discover more about what Islam instructs Muslims to observe and how to conduct themselves.

    This subject needs to be broached and discussed openly some day if for no other reason than to educate non-Muslims in the cultural ways of their new neighbours. The sooner, the better.

  58. bib's morning nutri-loaf

    25 Apr, 2014 - 3:04 pm

    Great quote in that article, “considering all options” When the US says it, it merely means aggression and nukes. But when the Palestinians say it they really mean business.

    What’s the US government’s greatest fear? ICC accession for Palestine. The US has already got its tit caught in the impunity wringer. The Human Rights Committee is charging bad faith in treaty compliance extending to peremptory norms of international law. The UN special rapporteur on counter-terror and human rights has described the US secret death camps in the language of a crime against humanity. And US compliance review for the Convention Against Torture comes up in November. This is causing naked panic at CIA and JSOC with Obama just hiding, trying to survive:

    http://correntewire.com/scott_horton_interviews_the_other_scott_horton_on_the_white_house_cia_torture_and_homicide_complex

    If the US has to make examples some scapegoats, it’s general quarters for Netanyahu. His personal safety always depended on his ability to blackmail the US, about breaches in the Nuclear Weapons Convention, about 9/11, about all sorts of regime-destoying dirt. What if he has to break the glass?

  59. Further tragic, is the necessity to embrace the less odious in this continuing travesty. Who will speak for the good of children, instead of abusing them?

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/a-letter-from-samer-al-issawis-mother-to-all-supporters-of-freedom-throughout-the-world/

  60. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 3:16 pm

    re Human Rights rankings

    Five posts from Anon and, within the hour (sometimes within minutes), five rejoinders from Ba’ar Zevul.

    I trust Hamas and/or the Palestinian Authority will pay you a bonus for your vigilance today, Ba’ar Zevul!

  61. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 3:22 pm

    “But I don’t see Freedom ‘n Democracy, Inc, giving $3Bn of its taxpayers’ money to Russia, China, Venezuela et al annually, do you?*”
    _________________

    And if did, the freedom and human rights loving leaders of those countries would immediately start whining about “subversion” and put the legal clamps on it.

    As Russia and Venezuela have in fact done in the case of similar NGOs.

  62. Since the Oslo accords, settlements have increased from 110,000 to 500,000. Clearly Abbas is doing exactly what Netanyahoo wants him to do.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/the-similarities-between-mahmoud-abbas-and-mangosuthu-buthelezi/

  63. Michelle Grant

    25 Apr, 2014 - 3:44 pm

    So you finally commented on Craig Murray’s blog Kelly? Can see what you mean, worth read.

  64. Ben-The Nazarene weeps

    25 Apr, 2014 - 3:49 pm

    Would Israeli fascism fail without ‘Christian’ support?

    “Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday stated that Zionism and the rebirth of the Jewish state would not have succeeded without the backing and support of Christian Zionism.”

    http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23369/Default.aspx?archive=article_title

  65. On reading the interviews of prof. Netanyahu, freely given without informing his sons press office, one gets an idea what the zionist wanted to achieve with their cradle to grave indoctrination.

    From a young age Bibi has been subjected to the ideas of Zev Jabotinsky because his father was an arch supporter, carved and polished by Zev’s views, one reason why he never got a teaching job at any of the universities.

    reading this blog shows what it means to indoctrinate children with hatred and fear for Palestinians, how dangerous this can be for the future when one’s child is hollowed out by the fascism/nationalism of their fathers. It results in long term intransigence and misunderstanding.

    This is why I believe that a two state solution is not a solution, but a receipe for a long term struggle, perpetuation of hatred. Unless all children learn to play, live and learn together, until they see adults behaving like equals, in one country and without being forced into defending their fathers ideals, this cursed land will tear itself apart.

    now there are some dark mutterings for you anon

    http://www.promisedlandblog.com/?p=803

  66. Jemand @ 2.58

    Religious instruction while it often has moral fibre sometimes belongs to a time gone by, or if not, ought to do. That does not mean that Muslims, Jews or Christians who are persecuted should not be protected against state or other abuse. There was a wise Jewish teacher 2000 years ago who when confronted with the old law of Moses regarding the stoning of a woman for adultery. He was asked for his advise and his answer, wise in my opinion, was to draw in the sand with a stick and as he did so to teach “If anyone is without sin let him cast the first stone.” Because all of them were sinners in one way or another the crowd that wanted to stone the woman dispersed. Had anybody cast a stone he would have been a sinner.

    The Qu’ran, Bible, Torah apply, though many would disagree, to history. There is much to be learnt from religious books but the law of a land today is, or should be, based on common sense and applied to the 21st century, where adultery is commonplace and should not meet with primitive punishment. What we need is some religious teaching about the evil empire that uses drones to kill and maim women, children, men and sometimes alleged terrorists, all of which have had no fair trial. I am almost sure you will agree with me on this.

    Remember, stoning for adultery was committed by Jews at one time, and only through education has a modern world moved forward on this issue. This is why I very much support enlightened Israeli groups, like anti-Zionist Israeli groups, and the recent advanced Israeli group calling for a halt to male circumcision posted by Doug Scorgie.

    http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

    I agree that countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and other places where outdated laws are used to condemn people to death, have not moved forward in this respect. It does not mean that all the things these countries do are wrong. But equally the UK, US and other NATO regimes are murdering people extra-judicially, and are therefore just as bad. As an educated man yourself I feel confident you will not take issue with this comparison of two evils: one based on religion, the other on secularism.

  67. Habbakuk Are these your own opinions or are you given subject matter to push ?
    Do you seriously believe the stuff you write ?

    The consistency I see ,is your omnipresence. A man with a word to say on everything and a bad word to aim at Mary.It is obviously a full time job as you are probably present more often than even Craig is. What do they pay you to disrupt blogs? Every now and again I begin to believe you are becoming civil,but then suddenly you revert back to the good old Habba we attempt to ignore.Almost like there is two of you. Do you work shifts perhaps ?

  68. Ba'al Zevul (Dark Artist)

    25 Apr, 2014 - 4:17 pm

    Kurtan -Is Habbabcuk still there? And Mary?

    *bliss*

  69. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 4:33 pm

    Kurtan

    “Habbakuk Are these your own opinions or are you given subject matter to push ?
    Do you seriously believe the stuff you write ?

    The consistency I see ,is your omnipresence. A man with a word to say on everything and a bad word to aim at Mary.It is obviously a full time job as you are probably present more often than even Craig is. What do they pay you to disrupt blogs? Every now and again I begin to believe you are becoming civil,but then suddenly you revert back to the good old Habba we attempt to ignore.Almost like there is two of you. Do you work shifts perhaps ?”
    ___________________

    1/. References to “full time job”, “pay”, work shifts” : I imagine that your post is meant to be a response to mine(at 15h16) regarding Ba’al Zevul. Perhaps you are Ba’al Zevul, or working for the same people?

    2/. “A word to say on everything” : not at all. There are far better candidates on here for that accolade.

    3/. Whether these are my opinions and do I believe what I write: certainly. And now ask yourself the same questionss about others.

    4/. More often present than Craig : yes, just like the other regulars. And that’s what usually happens on blogs with comment sections.

    5/. The Habba you try to ignore : feel free to do so. Try Habbabreak if it all gets too much, why don’t you.

    6/. Are there two of me : yes, sure. Salt and pepper, ying and yang, the rough and the smooth…whatever you wish!

    And now stop being so silly. :)

    ******************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  70. Some more ZBC propaganda on BBC News Channel at 3am this morning.

    BBC Jeremy Bowen vs Benjamin Netanyahu & BBC Mike Embley vs Khaled Elgindy from Brookings
    Posted by Gutenberg on April 25, 2014, 3:05 pm

    Khaled Elgindy http://www.brookings.edu/experts/elgindyk

    Even in attempting to make the most basic of counter-arguments to Netanayhu, Bowen proves to be woefully inadequate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5LI1dNFAl0

    Are these people really journalists? During their exchange, Bowen charges that “The Palestinians say that you continue to take their land, to build and extend settlements…”

    Why didn’t Bowen mention that the issue goes far beyond the claims or accusations of the Palestinians and it’s actually the established opinion of the international community through countless resolutions and condemnations of the continued building and expansion of settlements as a violation of international law at the UN and within the EU for decades?

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1398434752.html

  71. In regard to my last comment about the faults of religion and secularism it is twelve months gone since Obama last talked about closing Guantanamo Bay. Shaker Aamer, an educated Muslim who with Moazzam Begg was running a charity school for boys and girls in Afghanistan, before their school and home was hit by the Yankie military, has been tortured and abused. Despite being cleared for release 6 years ago he is still in that hellhole in Cuba. He has a twelve year old son he has never seen. I urge all right-minded people to sign this petition, started today, for his release.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/u-s-attorney-general-eric-holder-release-shaker-aamer-and-let-him-return-home

    Craig, please do another blog about Shaker.

  72. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 4:52 pm

    Mr Goss pleads

    “Craig, please do another blog about Shaker.”
    ____________________

    I’ve told you several times : you are a squatter on this blog, so please stop trying to give instructions to its owner!

    You have your own blog – Johngossip or something similar. Why don’t you post something about Shaker there if you can’t wait for Craig to get round to it when he pleases?

  73. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    25 Apr, 2014 - 4:57 pm

    I think we’ve discovered havasack’s identity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poltergeist

  74. And have a nice weekend Baal. See you Monday!

  75. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 5:14 pm

    @ Eminences

    Given that no example of govt turpitude, however small, escapes the eagle eye of the Eminences on this blog, I’m all the more surprised that the govt’s splendid decision to stop RBS paying its executives bonuses amounting to double their annual pay has not given rise to a single comment here.

    I wonder what the reason for this strange silence could be?

  76. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella)!
    “Try Habbabreak if it all gets too much.”

    Thanks for that Habbaman!

    Habbabreak. For when it gets too much.

  77. Pro Russian seperatists have captured a bus with 7 OSCE observers, these are seven out of 160 for the whole of the Ukraine.

    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-separatisten-halten-deutsche-osze-beobachter-fest-a-966255.html

    Putin must know that he should stop this, he can’t be seen to support stop such blatant actions, not to speak of the murder of locally elected politicians. It negates his arguments because he has no beef with the OSCE, their reputation is good and they are usually well respected.

    I believe the OSCE is currently trying to recruit and dispatch some 500 observers to the Ukraine, now there is something usefull to do.

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 6:42 pm

    Like Mary, I believe in cross-fertilization, including that of blogs.

    So here is the very latest (today!) offering from Mary on Squonk’s splendid blog:

    “I think the trolls on Craig are finding it quite difficult trying to keep up with all the comments on Craig’s multiple posts. Habb is in the lead, followed by Anon and the others bringing up the rear”

    *******************

    Support the Pound sterling, the US dollar and the shekel – dump rubles, reals and renminbis!

  79. Mods There is a nasty mixture of dog dirt and ad hominems being left at the end of the previous threads going back to ‘UK Moves to Block US Senate Report to Protect Blair, Straw and Dearlove’. I think the sly t—-s believe nobody will notice.

  80. nevermind 25 Apr, 2014 – 5:57 pm

    The OSCE is a spin-off from NATO. Absolutely nothing impartial about it. Set up to counter Russian influence and convert former Soviet friendly countries to the good old western NATO way of killing everything that moves and stealing what’s left in the ground. Don’t believe its own historical blurb. Go to the academics.

  81. Surely the faction in Ukraine that wants to rejoin Russia are unionists. Why are they called seperatists?

  82. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 9:14 pm

    “The OSCE is a spin-off from NATO. Absolutely nothing impartial about it. Set up to counter Russian influence and convert former Soviet friendly countries to the good old western NATO way of killing everything that moves and stealing what’s left in the ground.”
    _________________

    I believe that Russia belongs to this organization which rather makes nonsense of your claim, doesn’t it.

  83. Habbabkuk,

    I’m surprised you’re not praising this squonk contributor!

    The minimum age for internet use should be 14 and usage should be limited to 5 hours a week. This would help concentrate minds and free up time for healthier activities.

    No one under 45 and earning less than £50000 should be allowed to post anything. Posting only between 08h00 and 20h00 UCT.

  84. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 9:18 pm

    “Mods There is a nasty mixture of dog dirt and ad hominems being left at the end of the previous threads…”
    ______________________-

    And how would you describe what you write about this blog and bloggers on other blogs (eg Squonk’s – cf my post at 18h42, above)?

  85. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 9:20 pm

    Squonk (21h17)

    “Habbabkuk,

    I’m surprised you’re not praising this squonk contributor!”
    _______________

    I’ll leave that agreeable task to others, dear Squonk :)

  86. Out of interest I googled Liam Fox News. The top 4 results -

    Liam Fox accuses Snowden of ‘treason’ – but ignores his own past
    Politics.co.uk (blog)-by Ian Dunt-17 Apr 2014
    Liam Fox during the Adam Werritty scandal. … Former defence secretary Liam Fox has been more prominent as a backbencher than he was as …

    Snowden leaks ‘criminally irresponsible’, MP Liam Fox says
    BBC News-16 Apr 2014
    Former CIA contractor Edward Snowden risked the lives of secret agents by leaking documents containing their names, ex-UK Defence …

    Liam Fox urges foreign states to help fight Scottish independence bid
    Express.co.uk-20 Apr 2014
    FORMER Defence Secretary Liam Fox has urged foreign governments to … Speaking in Washington last week, Dr Fox said he believed Alex …

    Liam Fox: Nato must speak up to save Union
    The Sunday Times-19 Apr 201
    FORMER defence secretary Liam Fox has urged foreign governments to break their silence and oppose Scottish independence in the interests

    Couldn’t make it up could you. I made the same search for Werritty but drew a blank other than connections to Fox in the context of the links above.

  87. In case there are any detractors to my view that the OCSE is a spin-off of NATO, and little different from the United Nations which started out as a reasonable International Organisation, but is now “New York, New York, New York”, one of its latest debates involved the Ukraine. I urge you to look at who the Chairman and co-chairman is and remember the debate is about Europe. WTF has Europe got to do with Yanks?

    http://www.csce.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContentRecords.ViewDetail&ContentRecord_id=555&Region_id=101&Issue_id=0&ContentType=H,B&ContentRecordType=H&CFID=15489647&CFTOKEN=295d35a037013260-0A20B624-B92F-55D8-171ED53C1221E062

  88. BrianFujisan

    25 Apr, 2014 - 9:52 pm

    Check oot this Shit – Not Strictly O.T… i think

    Hello World. I’m Tony Blair, the highest-paid speaker in the world and the Middle East ‘Peace Envoy’ and I’d like to share my thoughts with you on how to combat the threat of ‘radical Islam….

    As most of you know will know, I have courageously and tenaciously set out to combat these dark forces for many years now, with considerable success. And I would like to share my thoughts with you on what ‘we’ can do to combat this menace:

    Take military action everywhere and anywhere in the world regardless of the risks and consequences, as I did when I took the decision to participate in the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Both these actions have contributed enormously to reducing ‘extremist violence’ as anyone with even the most cursory knowledge of these countries can attest.
    Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to understand or define what ‘radical Islam’ actually is. Any attempts at such analysis can only undermine the moral clarity required for the struggle between ‘ pluralistic societies and open economies, where the attitudes and patterns of globalisation are embraced; and those who want to impose an ideology born out of a belief that there is one proper religion and one proper view of it.’ Do not consider the political and historical context that has given …

    The rest of thie piece…with this Video -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQGQ_U7Y5WE

    @

    http://stopwar.org.uk/videos/the-tony-blair-10-point-guide-to-fighting-islamic-extremism#.U1rIXlVdWqh

  89. Matthew Gould, old friend of Fox and Werritty, has been busy establishing and cementing UK/ Israel links.

    ‘The UK Jewish Film Festival was established 18 years ago; and on April 16-19, the Tel Aviv Cinematheque is presenting a selection of some of the most popular films the festival has screened.

    The festival is held in London, Glasgow, Leeds, Liverpool and Manchester, as well as in Geneva and Hong Kong. The UK festival is three weeks long, and approximately 15,000 people attend it. It features movies about Jewish life from around the world and not necessarily from the UK.

    Matthew Gould, the British ambassador to Israel, will speak in Tel Aviv at the opening-night film, The Jewish Cardinal. Directed by Ilan Duran Cohen, the movie is a dramatization of the life of Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger, the Jewish-born head of the French church and close confidant of Pope John Paul II.’
    http://www.albawaba.com/al-bawaba-buzz/uk-jewish-film-festival-568402

    ‘Many Israeli academics and students continue to visit, and to be made welcome, at UK universities. Israel and Great Britain.

    The British have been visiting Israel in large numbers.

    Following on the visit by British Prime Minister David Cameron, a few weeks ago Science Minister David Willets arrived with a delegation of heads of British universities to promote new Israel- UK scientific programs and to attend the second BIRAX (Britain Israel Research and Academic Exchange Partnership) sponsored conference on regenerative medicine held at the Technion in Haifa. A group of British parliamentarians left the country following a visit to Israel and the West Bank at the end of last week, and another delegation flew in for a three-day symposium on the peace process at Ma’aleh Hahamisha.

    The proactive British ambassador to Israel, Matthew Gould, didn’t have much time to relax, as between these visits he hosted a large group of guests to the annual British spring fair, which was held in the garden of his home in Ramat Gan last Friday morning.’
    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Borderline-views-Promoting-UK-Israel-scientific-cooperation-347073

    followed by a lot of propaganda against British university students’ protests and the academic boycott.

    Liam Fox declares a visit to Israel (with a staff member) last July paid for by Conservative Friends of Israel. Many private and corporate donations, some large, are also declared as were trips to Bahrain and Azerbaijan.
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=10213

  90. Resident Dissident

    25 Apr, 2014 - 10:04 pm

    “In case there are any detractors to my view that the OCSE is a spin-off of NATO, and little different from the United Nations which started out as a reasonable International Organisation, but is now “New York, New York, New York”,”

    Please stop trolling – some opinions are just so ridiculous as not to require any rebuttal, what can be stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

  91. Brian, if Blair had said it it would be the first honest mouthful to have passed over his forked tongue and into the public domain. Nice one!

  92. Just to confuse John we now have the OSCE which has its roots in the CSCE. These Wiki links might clarify. It’s all about global domination which the TTIP will extend.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_Co-operation_in_Europe

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_on_Security_and_Cooperation_in_Europe

    Wikileaks on TPP http://wikileaks.org/tpp/

    and Wikipedia on TTIP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership

    Remember the last acronym.

  93. Resident Dissident

    25 Apr, 2014 - 10:17 pm

    I’m surprised (well not really) that we haven’t heard even a pipsqueak of protest from those who have shown such an interest in defending the freedom of the internet in the past to Putin’s statement about the internet being a CIA project or to the founder of the Russian Facebook being forced out so that it could be taken over by the KGB

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/vladimir-putin-web-breakup-internet-cia

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/apr/02/founder-pavel-durov-leaves-russian-social-network-site-vkontakte

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27113292

    Well at least the Putinistas might be a little quieter since they wouldn’t want to be seem participating in a CIA project would they?

  94. I might have guessed some prat would chirp in with denigrating nonsense, and who was it, Resident Dissident. Now there’s a surprise. OK watch US Senator Cardin’s speech for yourself. You’ll agree with every word I have no doubt. But it proves my point about there being no impartiality in the US led OCSE. Keep getting your nonsense from Wikipedia and you’ll end up like the other sheep. Baa. Baa. Baa. WTF has it got to do with Europe, or for that matter Iraq, or Afghanistan and all the other countries it thinks it has an inalienable right to which to dictate?

  95. I saw that too Brian. Very droll but see that the Guardian are promoting it without any irony. They promoted BLiar to perpetrate his war crimes and still promote him to this day. Remember Nick Cohen’s stuff in 2003?

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2014/apr/25/tony-blair-cassetteboy-video-mashup-bloomberg-speech

    http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2013/03/03/ten-years-on-nick-cohen-celebrates-the-iraq-invasion-with-an-irrelevant-question

  96. Thanks Mary for the links. But I do not need those. Senator Cardin speaks for himself and the rest of the Yankee-Doodle-Dandies trying to tell Europe what is or is not right for us.

  97. Robert Fisk in tomorrow’s Independent.

    Yet another betrayal of the Palestinians
    ‘Barack Obama becomes the latest US President effectively to give up on the peace process’

    Dead in the water. Just as the entire world predicted – with the exception of Messrs Barack Obama and John Kerry and, I suppose, our favourite “peace” envoy Tony Blair – the whole fandango of an Israeli-Palestinian “peace” has collapsed again. US President Obama, walking away from the car crash for which his own political cowardice is entirely to blame, says it’s time for a “pause”. Could there be a more chilling word for America’s impotence in the Middle East?

    Of course – lock-stepping with Israel as usual – Obama condemned Mahmoud Abbas for the “unhelpful” step of trying to form a unity government with Hamas, a skewed version of events that entirely chimes with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s predictable claim that the Palestinian President “formed an alliance with a murderous terrorist organisation that calls for Israel’s destruction”.

    Forget that Mr Abbas insists that this Palestinian unity would be founded on recognition of Israel, renunciation of violence and acceptance of previous agreements.

    /..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-yet-another-betrayal-of-the-palestinians-9290402.html

  98. Resident Dissident

    25 Apr, 2014 - 10:42 pm

    The OCSE is not US led

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_Co-operation_in_Europe

    No I don’t agree with every word of Senator Cardin’s speech.

    Boy do you old Soviets hate the old Helsinki Accord don’t you – biggest mistake you ever made to sign up and allow all those foreigners (and not a few dissidents) to ask awkward questions about human rights and try and enforce all those articles in the UN Charter (remember the one you were praising a few weeks back) that the good old USSR had been avoiding until then. And now they are trying to stop your latest hero going back to the good old days.

  99. Resident Dissident

    25 Apr, 2014 - 10:44 pm

    Still no boycott of the CIA internet project by the faithful?

  100. The BBC’s main news last night: “The decades old conflict between these two sides threatens to reignite – that’s why the US want to restart the peace talks.”

    Yeah, they’re just an honest broker, like the BBC is an impartial news-gathering organisation. Hopefully, the Palestinians have had enough of the charade of peace talks. The alternative is a very one-sided slaughter, so I understand why they stayed with the charade for so long.

    Israel might give up a few West Bank towns – that will be the state of Palestine – and of course they’ll control the borders, trade, water and electricity just like Gaza. That might be Palestine, in 10 years time or so, once Israel has stolen all the land it needs – a few tightly-controlled ghettos will constitute a nation. And the BBC will hail the person who fills John Kerry’s shoes as a hero of our times.

  101. Mary 25 Apr, 2014 – 10:37 pm

    Palestine is another failed state, like Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan etc, etc. It is what the west does. Ukraine will end up the same if the Yanks get their way. Thay are out to destroy the world.

  102. Come on spellcheck. There’s no such word as ‘Thay’ is thay?

  103. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 10:53 pm

    Resident Dissident (22h42)

    Well said – and spot on. The Soviets made a big, big boo-boo – they thought it was one of those agreements which they could sign up to and then speedily ignore. BIG mistake!

    BTW, I love the Insolent Squatter’s haughty tone : “In case there are any detractors to my view that the OCSE is a spin-off of NATO,…”. He is really convinced it’s “his” blog, isn’t he.

    From the tone of his last few intemperate posts today he seems to be feeling the pressure. Off to the Gulag with the trolls!

  104. “No I don’t agree with every word of Senator Cardin’s speech.”

    That surprises me. What do you not agree with?

  105. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 11:06 pm

    From a Continental French language newspaper today (my translation):

    “Israel suspends the peace process.

    ………..Finally, a Fatah heavyweight Jibril Rajoub declared that he was “confident that the peace talks would continue because Hamas has changed and accepts the existence of Israel within its pre-Six Day War borders (June 1967). An affirmation denied by the Hamas spokesman in Gaza, Issam El Bardawil, according to whom his organization “will never accept the Zionist entity, will not deal with it and will not be part of a government which will accept it.”……..”

    *********************

    A bon entendeur!

  106. Resident Dissident

    25 Apr, 2014 - 11:13 pm

    That surprises me. What do you not agree with?

    I don’t think he says enough to support those in Russia who are prepared to stand up the aggressive nationalism and corruption of the Putin regime – and recognise that the problem is that we wants to replicate the same within the Ukraine . There are a lot of shared interests between Russians and Ukrainians and these need to be acknowledged – they both share a need to deal with the same problems whoich come from the same source. There needs to be more direct dialogue with and support for the progressive forces within Russia – and recognition that Putin is using this dispute to beat the old nationalist drum within Russia .

  107. Mary; “Mods There is a nasty mixture of dog dirt and ad hominems being left at the end of the previous threads going back to ‘UK Moves to Block US Senate Report to Protect Blair”

    Thanks for the heads-up on the latest communication attempt from the Angry Aussie (aka The Germanic “Somebody”) !

    “Atheism, the religious belief in the certainty of the unknowable.”

  108. “That surprises me. What do you not agree with?

    I don’t think he says enough to support those in Russia who are prepared to stand up the aggressive nationalism and corruption of the Putin regime – and recognise that the problem is that we wants to replicate the same within the Ukraine . There are a lot of shared interests between Russians and Ukrainians and these need to be acknowledged – they both share a need to deal with the same problems whoich come from the same source. There needs to be more direct dialogue with and support for the progressive forces within Russia – and recognition that Putin is using this dispute to beat the old nationalist drum within Russia .”

    Other than that then do you think his analysis of the situation in the Ukraine was unbiased? Because I don’t. It reminded me of the BBC, or NBC, and shows exactly where the US-led OCSE is coming from: America.

    One of the reasons I have to watch alternatives to MSM is because you get the same old shit Cardin is spouting.

  109. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    25 Apr, 2014 - 11:44 pm

    Re Cardin, Mr Goss says “Other than that…”

    But that was exactly Resident Dissident’s point, wasn’t it.

  110. Resident Dissident

    25 Apr, 2014 - 11:56 pm

    Other than that then do you think his analysis of the situation in the Ukraine was unbiased?

    I don’t think his view on the Ukraine was unbiased – just like I don’t think yours or mine own are unbiased. There is nothing wrong with being biased against an injustice – the real question is whether the bias is supported by something other than prejudice.

    As an additional point I would also council the Senator to be more careful in distinguishing between Russia and the Russian Government – the distinction may not be so important for his domestic audience but it certainly is to most Russians.

  111. Resident Dissident

    25 Apr, 2014 - 11:58 pm

    Habba

    I think he should stick to singing!

  112. Squonk; l feel certain our resident adolescents
    can fool the censors and browse online peep shows with sufficient maturity to display a teenaged pov. They reach that higher frequently.

  113. ‘They reach that high bar frequently.’

  114. “There is nothing wrong with being biased against an injustice – the real question is whether the bias is supported by something other than prejudice. ”

    I agree that we are all biased. But that is not the real question. The real question is, and was when I put it, that the OCSE is a spin-off of NATO and US-led interference in Europe. To try and put the question for the third time:

    Has the United States any right to interfere in European affairs through in your eyes a neutral organisation, OCSE, and through my eyes an American quango?

  115. Macky -

    Mary; “Mods There is a nasty mixture of dog dirt and ad hominems being left at the end of the previous threads going back to ‘UK Moves to Block US Senate Report to Protect Blair”

    Thanks for the heads-up on the latest communication attempt from the Angry Aussie (aka The Germanic “Somebody”) !

    “Atheism, the religious belief in the certainty of the unknowable.”

    - – - – x – - – - x – - – - x – - – - x – - – -

    The Illiterati

    Two uneducated phlegm buckets, one a mad chicken-breeding anti-semite who dispenses imperious instructions to the moderator with a click of her heels, the other a barely functional simpleton who fancies himself as a political scientist, together taking on the world of injustice one delusion at a time.

    *slow clap*

  116. Habbabkuk and Resident Dissident,

    Why don’t you both get a room so you can deeply examine your inner tag-team trollishness?

  117. A great commentary on both the cynicism of the U.S. in promoting “peace talks” when all parties know they are nothing of the kind, and the tragedy of the never-ending Nakba in Palestine since 1947.
    Man’s inhumanity to man, where holocaust victim becomes genocide perpetrator.

  118. LOL I do not ‘breed; chickens. I have two hens, now pets. I am not an anti semite (that old saw again!). There have been many explanations here as to the exact meaning of semite. I am pro truth and justice for the Palestinians and against support of the Zionist entity, spoken or unspoken. Also I am not racist unlike some who comment on this blog who seem to be more concerned about a person’s skin colour than who the person is.

  119. You can only weep.

    A wonderful human is murdered. His life was completely opposite to that of Cameron, Netanyahu and Obama for example.

    He said ‘I mean, they are in the hypocrisy of speaking for the spirit with which they have lost touch.’ Exactly Father Frans. With you in every thought you expressed. The picture with the slow learners with the flowers in the small holding is very touching. ‘Consider the lilies of the field ……………….’ comes to mind.

    ‘Frans, though, stayed true to his life’s work. Through the appalling siege of Homs, his devotion to the Syrian people never faltered. To the end he spoke not of Christians or Muslims but of fellow human beings struggling to survive.

    “There is nothing more painful than watching mothers searching for food for their children in the streets,” he said in a video clip released in February. “We love life, we want to live. And we do not want to sink in a sea of pain and suffering.”‘

    Frans van der Lugt: A Dutch priest in Homs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27155474

    A beautiful obituary produced by the BBC and written by Daniel Silas Adamson in Bethlehem.

  120. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 10:03 am

    “that the OCSE is a spin-off of NATO and US-led interference in Europe”

    Given that Russia is a member and most of the Soviet bloc countries joined when they were in the Soviet bloc – I very much doubt it. Please read up on its history and the Helsinki accords, before launching into your perpetual conspiracy theory.

  121. “Given that Russia is a member and most of the Soviet bloc countries joined when they were in the Soviet bloc”

    Diversionary tactics. So I ask again because you seem to be very shy at answering.

    Should the US, Cardin and company, be dictating what happens in Europe via OCSE?

    How would you like me to ask the above question to elicit an answer if you do not like any of the four ways it has been phrased.

  122. “The World’s most vicious and unrelenting theological and racist state”

    Er, Craig, wouldn’t that be Saudi Arabia surely? As vile as the Zionist State may be, they do permit the practice of other religions besides their own (unlike the Saudis). Also they do confine their support of terrorism to those terrorists who attack Israel’s enemies (as in Syria), unlike the Saudis who support those terrorists even when they attack the Saudis’ own allies.

    And however brutal Israeli cops may be towards Palestinians, I’ve not heard of them chasing teenage girls back into burning buildings, as the Saudi police have notoriously done.

    As to racist, I guess that depends on whether you class Jews as a “race”, which is scientific terms is very dubious. Jews belong to many races and racial mixtures, although within Israeli Jewry there is certainly a racial pecking-order with white European Ashkenazi at the top and black Falashas at the bottom.

  123. Some negative reporting from the Times of Israel. Only to be expected I suppose.

    Top Palestinian negotiator: Hamas is not a terror group
    In Arabic interview, Saeb Erekat also says Gaza-based Islamists need not recognize Israel since Israeli leaders don’t recognize Palestine

    April 25, 2014

    Hamas is not a terror organization and never will be, the chief Palestinian negotiator with Israel told Sky News in Arabic on Friday.

    Erekat made the comments after Israel suspended peace talks on Thursday in light of this week’s signing of a unity agreement between the two rival Palestinian factions, Fatah and Hamas. The Israeli government said it would not negotiate with a Palestinian leadership that included a Hamas component, since “Hamas is a terrorist organization that seeks the destruction of Israel.”

    Erekat, in his Friday interview, countered that “Hamas is not and will never be a terrorist organization to us.”
    /..

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/top-palestinian-negotiator-hamas-is-not-a-terror-group/

  124. Peace talks or not, the daily toll on the lives of the Palestinians continues.

    Zionism in practice – Israel’s Daily Toll on Palestinian Life, Limb, Liberty and Property
    24 hours to 8am 24 April 2014

    1 air strike – 5 attacks – 19 raids including home invasions – 4 beaten – 11 injured – 6 acts of agricultural/economic sabotage – 23 taken prisoner – 8 detained – 117 restrictions of movement

    Israeli drone strike injures 2 children and 4 adults
    Israeli Navy opens fire on fishing boats in 3 Gaza districts: 2 fishermen taken prisoner
    Israeli tanks shell Beit Hanun farmland
    Incursion: Israeli Army shoots its way onto al-Qarara farmland and bulldozes crops
    Israeli Army uproots fruit trees and conducts military training exercises on Beit Ummar farmland
    Israeli soldiers abduct 2 youths aged 16 and 17
    Israeli Army tags 6 West Bank homes threatened by annexation Wall
    Israeli checkpoint troops beat up 4 residents
    Settler militants damage Palestinian fruit trees
    Night peace disruption and/or home invasions in 2 refugee camps and 10 towns and villages

    http://www.sapienspromise.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3126

  125. John Goss, would you believe that the OSCE is legit, not just the only one, if two Russian Duma members chair it?

    I think you are making a point about not very much at all, my concern lies with the observation of possible human rights breaches, election manipulations and downright armed aggression, regardless of who is doing it.

    If all parties to the OSCE have signed up to be observed by it, as well as to observe others, then you have really no point.

    These observer teams are mixed, by design. It is not impossible to place spies within these teams, but this applies to any outfit that goes abroad, and its well known, whether its archeology, or some other, maybe scientific survey team, mining, anything really, all I’m saying is, that its up to the OSCE to make sure that these people are picked at random from a pool, mixed and shuffled after every placement.

    If this is not already happening, then these would be simple measures to implement.

    Another point John, you failed to say who you woulkd like to see observing both sides in this increasingly rabid exchange and whether you agree with increasing the contingent to at least 500, hopefully some more.
    Logically the more you have the more concise your judgement, be rest assured that there will be no nudge nudge wink wink between US and German observers, it will be strictly professional and by the book, I have no doubt.

    What do I base this on? Because of the facts on the ground and the importance of this issue to Europe Russia and our future relations.

    If this conflict is allowed to fester and create division in Europe, who’s interests would this serve? and who has a beef with the EU?
    let you answer the question.

    and no, I’m not an OSCE observer.

  126. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 5:59 pm

    ” wouldn’t that be Saudi Arabia surely? As vile as the Zionist State may be, they do permit the practice of other religions besides their own (unlike the Saudis).”

    Same smell. Just as their is little difference between Obama and Putin wrt to behaviors versus rhetoric. The covert grunt of global intent has all parties taking notes from one another.

    The alliance of evil has results virtually indistinguishable, one economic step at a time.

  127. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    26 Apr, 2014 - 6:11 pm

    Nevermind

    Give up, mate.

    You must gave realised by now that rational discussion with John Goss about Russia/Putin is impossible.

    He belongs to that category of people who, 50 years ago, would have said that the USSR’s hold on Eastern Europe was a splendid thing because it enabled American influence to be checked. That view is no longer respectable, so he wouldn’t say it any more (although no doubt silently regretting, alongside Putin, the demise of the Soviet Empire). Instead, and in similar fashion, anything Russia does to its neighbours today is a splendid thing enabing American and Western European influence ti be checked.

    If a Russian soldier came along tomorrow and stuck the barrel of his rifle up Goss’s arse, Goss would probably thank the soldier for having given him a much needed if involuntary enema.

  128. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 6:21 pm

    John Goss

    I have no problem with anyone or any country interfering within reason and appropriate limits, with military action being a last resort, to defend human rights as specified in the Helsinki Accord. Now I’ve answered your question perhaps you might ask a related question as to whether you support Russia’s interference in Ukraine, most of the old satellite states of the Soviet Union and Syria or Iran’s interference in Syria, or Hezbollah’s interference in Syria, or Saddam’s Iraq’s interference in Kuwait, Kurdistan or Iran, or Slobbo’s interference in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo all of which were most certainly not motivated by human rights? Your silence on this sort of interference has been deafening over the past few years.

  129. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    26 Apr, 2014 - 7:26 pm

    I too should be very interested to hear Mr John Goss’s reply to Resident Dissident’s questions. Cards on the table time!

  130. “I have no problem with anyone or any country interfering within reason and appropriate limits, with military action being a last resort, to defend human rights as specified in the Helsinki Accord.”

    What is so great about the Helsinki Accord when the country that has the most influence through OSCE is the one with one of the worst human rights’ record of all 57 participating states. The US is not even party to the ICC. I have heard no credible stories about Russia influencing affairs in Ukraine. Only the US, UK and organisations like Chatham House, Swedbank and NATO, who are known to have supported Yatsenyuk, have had any influence with the illegal coup. Quite clearly though some people are not concerned with that. You amongst them.

  131. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 8:16 pm

    John; Righties think in black-and-white. They can’t conceive how shades of grey shadow-dance across the political wall. Try as we might to dissuade them we are in the tank for Putin, it is a fool’s errand.

    Especially when you remember they aren’t interested in reaching any middle-ground on the issues, since they don’t see anything except their own pov.

  132. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    26 Apr, 2014 - 8:19 pm

    “I have heard no credible stories about Russia influencing affairs in Ukraine.”
    ____________

    Of course you’ve heard them, you just don’t want to listen.

    Question : the Baltic states have loud and vociferous Russian minorities (mostly imported there after 1945) which continually complain that they are victims of discrimination.

    Should elements of those minorities ask for fraternal assistance and protection, does John Goss think that Russia should respond to those requests by intervening militarily?

    **********************

    “Life has become better, life has become merrier!” (The Little Father, ca. 1934)

  133. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 8:24 pm

  134. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    26 Apr, 2014 - 8:34 pm

    Habbabkuk’s solution for Ukraine

    Whatever happens, no federalisation – this would give Russia a permanent handle over Ukraine’s future orientation.
    Let the eastern and southern “Russian” parts go “independent” or join Russia. Those regions are full of basket-case industries anyway. Let the Russian train take the strain!
    A smaller and more homogenous Ukraine, rid of its Russian fifth column, to join NATO immediately.
    Political and economic relations with the EU to be developed with all due speed. Firstly through an enhanced Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, thereafter moves towards membership.

    In parallel : financial help to Ukraine re energy costs and diversification; Western and Central Europe to enhance its energy supply security in the various ways open to it, including by derogating from relevant December 2008 European Council remits.

    Incidental benefit : Russia will have won this battle but lost the war (a little like Craig Murray wrote several threads ago if memory serves).

  135. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 8:49 pm

    BLITZKRIEG? Or, is it another version of …http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

  136. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 9:06 pm

    The useful idiot speaks….

    “John Kerry has attacked RT for its coverage of the Ukraine crisis, calling it a “propaganda bullhorn.” Neglecting to address the US’ role in the conflict or back up his assertions with any evidence, Kerry said Russia was behind the unrest in Ukraine.”

    Lib Dems; Teabaggers; same smell.

  137. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    26 Apr, 2014 - 9:08 pm

    Wanted for the crime of murder against the English language – BEN:

    “The covert grunt of global intent has all parties taking notes from one another.”

    Should the Mods or the Attorney-General inexplicably fail to take the required action, I call on Anon (or was it ESLO?)to add the above to his collection of Ben-eries adorning the wall of his downstairs lavatory.

    ****************

    Dump reals, rupees, remnimbis and rubles!

  138. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 9:15 pm

    ” inexplicably fail to take the required action,” * grunt, grunt…* lol.

  139. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 9:32 pm

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-society-destruction-and-the-ukraine-crisis-decoding-its-deep-structural-meaning/5379275

    “The EU’s financial rule by banker mechanisms has already been almost as great a failure as the oligarch-marketization of Russia after 1990. It is a complex system of one-way powers of life deprivation and social ruin which I define in The Cancer Stage of Capitalism: From Crisis to Cure (1999, 2013). Elected governments lose all control to the new absolute and overriding imperative of European rule – to grow and multiply private transnational money sequences. In accord with the ruling formulae, the Greek economy has been slashed by 25 per cent, unemployment is an official 28 per cent excluding the unpaid, the public health system is dismantled to pay foreign banks, wages are cut by a quarter, the public sector is sacked and privatized, and jobless youth rises to 60 per cent even with mass emigration. These outcomes now await Ukraine.”

    Know just who you are supporting. Oh wait, you knew that already.

  140. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 9:34 pm

    That’s what freedom is. You are free to choose rule by Oligarchs, or oligarch banksters.

    Ahhh, the sweet smell of democratic republics.

  141. Jamesir Bensonmum

    26 Apr, 2014 - 10:25 pm

    Resident Dissident has no problem with anyone or any country interfering within reason and appropriate limits, with military action being a last resort, to defend human rights as specified in the Helsinki Accord! Alert the media.

    Quite as though his fake democracy gives a rat’s arse what he thinks about anything, he beavers away in a lonely little sandbox where every chav can play statesman in proud ignorance of UN Charter Article 2, UNGA res. 2625 (XXV), UNGA resolution 2131 (XX) of 1965, the ICJ’s very first case, DRC V. Uganda (2005), and evidently, what law is.

    There is evidently satisfaction in sounding resolute and stupid which escapes me. Perhaps it’s the pleasure of pulling little phrases out your arse. Within reason and appropriate limits. Goodness how sad. Come now, this is no way to convince us of your much-vaunted but unspecified fine education and cosmopolitan flair.

  142. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 10:52 pm

    “I have heard no credible stories about Russia influencing affairs in Ukraine.”

    Not even this one

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6988860.stm

    or this one

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7806870.stm

  143. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 10:56 pm

    @Habba

    “Whatever happens, no federalisation”

    Couldn’t agree more – Putin does not understand the concept of federalisation or decentralisation of power in the slightest. His whole period in power in Russia has been one of continuous centralisation and the taking away of power from the regions and other members of the Russian Federation – and I defy any of his puppets here to demonstrate otherwise.

  144. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 11:00 pm

    Jamessir Bensonmum

    I defy you to tell us how the Helsinki Accord is in defiance of International Law and how the OSCE is operating in defiance of the ICJ. Come please spell it out.

  145. Ben-This House has not be cleared

    26 Apr, 2014 - 11:01 pm

    “and I defy any of his puppets here to demonstrate otherwise.”

    John; Do you need more evidence of their 2-dimensional thinking?

    It’s not our problem to provide a paradigm shift for their consumption.

    They can only handle Fish N Chips.

  146. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 11:03 pm

    Only the US, UK and organisations like Chatham House, Swedbank and NATO, who are known to have supported Yatsenyuk, have had any influence with the illegal coup.

    Of course you forget the Ukrainian people – all the protests were just by local fascists, or at least that is what your puppet masters told you.

    BTW you still haven’t answered my questions.

  147. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 11:07 pm

    It’s not our problem to provide a paradigm shift for their consumption.

    Lets just say I would rate the chances of Mr Goss providing a paradigm shift even higher than one coming from Mr Putin.

  148. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    26 Apr, 2014 - 11:15 pm

    Resident Dissident

    Unless you’ve become a covert admirer of the Insolent Squatter, I think you might have meant “lower”? :)

  149. Ben-Don't Bogart that Joint, Havasack

    26 Apr, 2014 - 11:25 pm

    “Unless you’ve become a covert admirer of the Insolent Squatter, I think you might have meant “lower”? ”

    The week-end shift is disappointing. Give us smarter t****s.

  150. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 11:46 pm

    Habba

    Close competition – but remember what they say about faint praise.

  151. Resident Dissident

    26 Apr, 2014 - 11:49 pm

    The week-end shift is disappointing. Give us smarter t****s.

    Couldn’t agree more.

  152. Jamesoik Bensondick

    27 Apr, 2014 - 12:16 am

    To see Mr. Dissident’s point one must be familiar with the seminal Dunning-Kruger convention.

    Acculturation promotes the propagation of international law internationally but within nations it is limited by factors such as intellect and habits of mind.

  153. Ben-Don't Bogart that Joint, Havasack

    27 Apr, 2014 - 12:23 am

    Jamesolk;

    Kinda like the Bukowski effect…

    ” ‘The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.’

  154. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Apr, 2014 - 1:36 am

    Ben.

    “Give us smarter t****s.” Don’t be unkind to them. We’ve got the best.

    “Je n’ai jamais fait mais une prière à Dieu, un très court: “O Seigneur faire mes ennemis ridicule.” Et Dieu lui a accordé. ” Voltaire

    Seven troll free minutes here,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHdGr-yPl1E&list=PL95792E2A11FCBBA7

  155. Ben-Don't Bogart that Joint, Havasack

    27 Apr, 2014 - 1:51 am

    Luv all that Jazz, sofia. Here’s for those of us who can only dream of visiting far away places.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA9OqUuA6a0

  156. Resident Dissident

    27 Apr, 2014 - 8:13 am

    Bensondick

    Clearly your education paid for out of whoever’s ill-gotten gains didn’t equip you with manners or the ability to answer a straightforward question. But then certain things can never be polished.

  157. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Apr, 2014 - 8:24 am

    Ben. 1 51am

    Coconut and Lime. Thanks.

    “You say yaaah ain’t there nothing i can take
    I said wow to relieve this belly ache
    I said doctor ain’t there nothing i can take”

    Try Habbabreak, IT REALLY WORKS!!!”

    Here it is, https://greasyfork.org/scripts/246-habbabreak

  158. I regret your smug attitude Craig, it gives off a smell of moral superiority.

    Hamas were voted in.
    The Palestinians voted them in, because they are the people the Palestinians want to represent them.

    You might have preferred Palestinians to take whatever Israel wants to give they by turning the other check.
    But Palestinians chose Hamas and its response to violence with retaliatory violence in spite at the unease Hamas’s retaliation gives to white liberal supporters of Palestinians.
    White liberals might find it easier to support Muslims if Muslims claimed to be some sort of pacifists, with a literal interpretation of the verse of the Christian Bible that says turn the other check.
    That we would die without raising a finger to defend ourselves or striking back so you can feel sorry for us. That you can feel smug when you attack war criminals like Netanyahu over the thousands they kill because they wouldn’t be able to justify it by the single digit figures the likes of Hamas kill while defending the Palestinians or in retaliation to Palestinian deaths.
    The Palestinians voted for who they did because they know the Quran gives people who are attacked to defend themselves. This isn’t just the interpretation of the Quran held by Hamas, it is the Quran.
    Craig believe it or not, the Palestinians know more about Hamas they voted for, and Israel that rules them then you do.

    But yes, I agree the Palestinians were wrong to have voted for Hamas. Because they were wrong to have voted at all. They were silly to assume that anyone takes democracy or the choice of Palestinians seriously. They should have known the minute brown people vote for something white liberals do not support, marks the end of white liberal support for democracy.

  159. Arsalan, good to see you again. I think you’re over-reacting a bit – Craig has never objected to anyone fighting back; he doesn’t insist upon “turning the other cheek”. Here’s a recent example:

    “I am an anti-militarist, but not a pacifist. I deplore aggressive war. Resisting invasion of your own country is an act that does deserve celebration.”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/pyongyang-style-unionist-propaganda/#comment-453839

  160. “In the 2008 Annapolis negotiations, the Palestinian delegation presented a generous map that would have enabled Israel to keep 60 percent of its settlers in place as part of a two percent land swap, while also maintaining the West Bank’s territorial contiguity. The Israeli delegation rejected the map, not, however, on topographical grounds but because it was deemed politically infeasible—as then-foreign minister Tzipi Livni insisted, no Israeli leader could accept it and still survive in office.

    Stripped of natural resources, tourist revenues from Jerusalem, and territorial contiguity, the so-called Palestinian state envisaged by the Kerry plan will at some point—there’s already talk of it—be forced to confederate with the Kingdom of Jordan. The “Jordanian option” dates back to the Peel Commission recommendations in the 1930s; was realized from 1948 to 1967 when Jordan annexed the West Bank, and was supported by Israel’s Labour Party after the 1967 war. But, although shelved after the first intifada and the Palestinian declaration of statehood in 1988, it appears to have been given a new lease on life: Not just in effect but also in fact, Palestine will disappear from the map.”

    http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comments/the_end_of_palestine_its_time_to_sound_an_alarm

    Netanyahoo refusing to negotiate because Hamas said something contrary to Abbas’ concessions is like Putin refusing to negotiate with US because the Tea Party hates ‘Commies’.

  161. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    27 Apr, 2014 - 7:49 pm

    From Ben’s source

    The “Jordanian option” ….. was realized from 1948 to 1967 when Jordan annexed the West Bank,…”

    ___________________

    At last! Every time in the past when I’ve pointed out precisely this fact (in an attempt to show Jordan’s share of the responsibility for there not already being a Palestinian state), various Eminences went ballistic.

    Thank you, Ben, for supplying this confirmatory source. Now your fellow Eminences will have to believe it :)

  162. “Initially proposed as a response to the outbreak of the “Great Arab Revolt” against the British Mandate in 1936, a confederation with Jordan has consistently been used by the global and regional powers as a mechanism to punish Palestinian political activity and reward loyal clients. The Peel Partition Plan called for the creation of a small Jewish state in northern Palestine and for an Arab state united with Transjordan under the rule of the first King Abdullah, who until his death remained a willing British tool. This plan was soundly rejected by the Palestinian Arab leadership, who objected to the partition of Palestine, the leadership of Abdullah, and the proposed population transfer of roughly 225,000 Palestinians from the territory allotted for the Jewish state.”

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/deconstructing-jordan-option/7095

    Since 1948 Jordan has taken in nearly 2 million Palestinian refugees; more than Gaza and the West Bank population combined.

  163. Resident Dissident

    27 Apr, 2014 - 8:23 pm

    John Goss

    I have no problem with anyone or any country interfering within reason and appropriate limits, with military action being a last resort, to defend human rights as specified in the Helsinki Accord. Now I’ve answered your question perhaps you might ask a related question as to whether you support Russia’s interference in Ukraine, most of the old satellite states of the Soviet Union and Syria or Iran’s interference in Syria, or Hezbollah’s interference in Syria, or Saddam’s Iraq’s interference in Kuwait, Kurdistan or Iran, or Slobbo’s interference in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo all of which were most certainly not motivated by human rights? Your silence on this sort of interference has been deafening over the past few years.

    3rd request

  164. The oppression and interference is ceaseless.

    Israel tightens grip around al-Aqsa mosque 23 April 2014 Al-Jazeera – 23 April 2014

    A right-wing Israeli settlement group has been put in charge of two controversial new projects to develop the area around al-Haram al-Sharif, or Noble Sanctuary, the compound of holy sites that includes al-Aqsa mosque and the golden-topped Dome of the Rock.

    Elad received planning approval this month to develop a huge visitors’ centre, called the Kedem complex, in a former car park just outside the Old City walls in the Palestinian neighbourhood of Silwan. While the visitors’ centre will give Elad a base less than 20 metres from the Old City, a second project could extend its reach to the retaining wall of al-Aqsa mosque itself.

    Al-Haram al-Sharif compound has been the most contested piece of territory in the Holy Land since Israel occupied Jerusalem’s Old City in 1967, along with the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Tensions have been heightened recently, as extremist Jews have begun entering the compound in larger numbers, with quiet backing from Israeli officials. The groups have sought to overturn a long-standing rabbinical prohibition on praying on the Temple Mount.

    /..

    http://www.jonathan-cook.net/2014-04-23/israel-tightens-grip-around-al-aqsa-mosque/

  165. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    28 Apr, 2014 - 8:49 am

    Ben

    “Since 1948 Jordan has taken in nearly 2 million Palestinian refugees; more than Gaza and the West Bank population combined.”
    ________________________

    If that is so, it makes Jordan’s decision to de facto annex the West Bank (rather than helping to set up an independent Palestinian state there) even stranger, doesn’t it.

  166. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    29 Apr, 2014 - 1:28 am

    Looking into the past is through a glass, darkly. Just as Obama’s self-directed prophecy that what worked in 1864 will work today, is a descriptor for living in the past, and we need focus on the realities of the Here and Now. We don’t fight wars with iron swords or muskets and although human nature has evolved but a tick beyond Linclon’s age, the force of power exerted on humans has exponentially increased. The more pressure; the less reasonable are the decisions made.

  167. Nice to see you too Clark.
    I have been busy with loads of stuff lately so have very little time to read and even less to write replies to what I read.
    My response was more towards the attitude of many in the European Left than Craig in particular.
    They seem to carry the same attitudes of superiority. One where they see Support of lesser races as dictating to them rather than supporting their own choices.

    I take Craigs comments about Palestinians and their choice of Hamas in the same way I would take comments condemning Jews for the resorting to Violence during the Warsaw uprising.

  168. Former Prime Minister of Israel and former commander of the elite IDF intelligence unit ‘Sayeret Matkal’, Ehud Barak is a master of stratagem.

    Rewind to 2001 backstage at the BBC World offices in London, Ehud was preparing to forge the War on Terror’s Zionist narrative in the vulnerable shell-shocked minds of his global audience.

    “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem,” Ehud would chime.

    ‘War on terror’ would be pulled out of it’s box and the cellophane removed.

    The sophistry then and today will ensure Israel survives, adversaries are rendered impotent and Eretz Yisrae dominates the planet. The plan promised to smash Iraq, Syria and Iran.

    Now Ehud must gain support from Putin and Russia to fracture, dehumanise and portray Muslims as heartless, bloodthirsty animals.

    The Ukraine putsch and powerplay is calculated to strengthen Russian/Israeli relations and basically weaken Russia’s support for Assad and Syria. That IS Ehud’s revised scheme before the strike on Iran and the demise of Palestinian unity.

  169. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    29 Apr, 2014 - 5:06 pm

    Mark; ““We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem,” Ehud would chime.”

    Almost the exact wording given by one of the 5 dancing Israelis. Talking points memo distributed.

  170. doug scorgie

    29 Apr, 2014 - 6:04 pm

    Anon
    25 Apr, 2014 – 11:32 am

    “I’ve had a quick look at the IHRRI country rankings by human rights record and there are about 154 countries below Israel on that list.”

    What you fail to point out Anon is that Israel, on the IHRRI rankings, lies at number 56 and is below (yes worse than) such human rights loving countries like China, Guyana and Russia!

  171. doug scorgie
    And that is after Israel uses every pressure tactic and cry of Anti-semitism to lift it as high as it can.

  172. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    29 Apr, 2014 - 7:30 pm

    Arsalan; It’s a shame there isn’t enough pushback on ‘antisemitism’ as a term carefully selecting the Jewish peoples as Semitic, when Arabs largely have the same roots.

    Just like the Holocaust was their’s alone, even though millions of other oppressed were eliminated. Nary a mention of any of them in that contest.

  173. The thing is, they have warn the term out even on Jews. They use it on very religious Jews for being Anti-Zionists. They use it on leftist Jews that may disagree with an action of Israel. They even use it on each other. Even the butcher of sabra and shatila Arial Sharon was called an Anti-semite by the rabid supporters of Benjamin Netanyahu. And I have read Netanyahu being called by people more extreme than he is.
    Antisemite, is just a meaningless swearword now. Over use has worn it out.

  174. The funny thing is, the same people who wear it out by over use, are the same people who wipe it from being used where it is needed. The biggest supporters of Israel are the Nazi EDL and BNP, who make a very bad secret of their desire to kill all Jews. And the evangelical Zionist Christians who believe Jews should all convert to Christianity or be slaughtered.

    So these days someone can hate the Jewish people, hate the Jewish religion and they are not Antisemite as long as they support Israel. But others who have nothing against Jews or Judaism are Antisemite if they disagree with something Israel does, or not support it to the level that is demanded.

  175. The Lucerferans have been at work again.

    Gaza’s Ark Attacked
    for immediate release

    At 3:45 AM Gaza time on April 29th, the night guard on board Gaza’s Ark received a call to leave the boat because it was going to be attacked.

    The guard left, but when nothing happened, he returned after 5 minutes. A few minutes later, a large explosion rocked the boat causing extensive damage.

    The boat sank part way and is now sitting on the shallow sea floor. The guard was not injured but was taken to hospital for tests.

    Mahfouz Kabariti, Gaza’s Ark Project Manager, says: “The extent and nature of the damage are currently being investigated. We will provide an update when available.”

    “Gaza’s Ark and all our partners in the Freedom Flotilla Coalition are considering our next move in response to this cowardly act of terrorism, but our position remains clear: Neither this nor any other attack will stop our efforts to challenge the blockade of Gaza until it ends,” adds David Heap of Gaza’s Ark Steering Committee.

    “Freedom Flotilla boats have been sabotaged before. This attack comes as we were almost ready to sail. You can sink a boat but you can’t sink a movement,” concludes Ehab Lotayef, another member of the Steering Committee.

    http://www.gazaark.org/2014/04/28/gazas-ark-attacked/

    Pitiless, heartless, life denying. And they pretend to have a God. A little video below of Gaza’s Ark being launched – OFF its keel by a digger. There was hope in their hearts. They are imprisoned on land, and imprisoned by sea. Tell all the nations – the nations complicit in this greatest evil. The poor people.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nTV-VNTrPh0

  176. 29 April 2014
    Have MidEast talks failure killed two-state goal?
    By Jeremy Bowen
    BBC Middle East editor, Jerusalem
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27210263

    Hear the entrenched view of the Israeli settler in Hebron.

    Hear and see the young Palestinian father with his beautiful little ones who are living in a damp cave since their house was demolished by the Israelis.

  177. Small flicker of light from the BBC Mary, maybe some gatekeepers are turning their backs towards the deceivers. I will expose the rest despite the sands of time weakening.

  178. Mark I thought Bowen was speaking from the Israeli perspective. I think I heard him right – ‘A final deal would need both leaders to persuade their people that big sacrifices are necessary, and will in time improve their lives.’

    What ‘big sacrifices’ does Bowen have in mind for the Palestinians? An acceptance of the evil Oslo accords? What more is there for them to give? Their land and their homes have gone and their freedom.

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted by Expathos