Fiddling While Rome Burns 160

The nauseating smugness of the Davos gathering is sickening enough at the best of times. In these very bad times, it is unbearable. The idea that we just need to recover confidence and get credit moving again, was precisely what the promoters of the South Seas and Darien schemes said when those schemes collapsed. The Church of England were quite right to characterise New Labour’s proposed remedies as “An addict returning to his drug”.

Brown’s extraordinary reliance on paid advisers from the merchant banks themselves to devise the way forward is laughable – not to mention the hideously unpleasant Baroness Vedera, one of the endless stream of democratically unaccountable Brown cronies parachuted into the Lords as ministers. And if one more penny of public money gets put into the banks without all bank bosses and staff being put on civil service pay rates, I am organising a tax strike.

Am in the middle of moving house, so no more from me until the end of the week.

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160 thoughts on “Fiddling While Rome Burns

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  • lwtc247

    I agree with Eddie. The Arab leaders are an apalling bunch, I would not shed a tear if most of them dissolved in their own grease tomorrow.

    but they’re not crap because they are Arabs or Muslims – that’s perhaps were me and Eddie part company.

    Most leaders have shown these disgusting traits, and as the attempt to hoodwink the world to fall further under the cloak of Zionism, these (s)elected leaders get worse and worse.

    The only source of hope I see w.r.t. ‘leaders’ are the Bolivarian ones. Why arn’t we allowed a Chavez, Castro or a Morales as a leader? It’s not fair. I want one too!

  • MJ

    Yes, Chavez is my favourite. Done well to last so long. Axis of Evil of course ie no debt Western elite.

  • eddie

    Nice try John, but I said poverty stricken AND corrupt, not either/or so I doubt that you can find a list to refute me.

    Dreoilin/MJ – what’s that about ad-hominem attacks? Touch of hypocrisy there, a bit of sterotyping perhaps? Not islamophobic but islamismphobic. There’s a big difference. Just as I am phobic about any religious wanker who wants to blow me up and who likes death better than life ( and I can furnish you with plenty of quotes on that score. Your profile is about as far from the truth as possible. You don’t even know if I am male or female.

    The gulf of Tonkin was not a conspiracy it was a cock up and has been offically accepted as such. No response then to any of my 9/11 points? No response to the overwhelming evidence that conspiracy theorists are nutters? See this link. I don’t know if you are familiar with the work of Jon Ronson but he would love you guys (but then he is Jewish I hear you exclaim). Do you know David Shayler – a bit like your friend Craig, a failed government maverick who has now gone completely loopy. Thinks he is Jesus Christ.

    Chris – I suggest you read the tag line at the top of Harry’s Place – it’s a quote from Orwell and a lot better than the Chomsky effort. But please don’t get me started on Chomsky. The man is a liar and a charlatan.

  • eddie

    Oh Christ. I’ve heard it all now. Chavez or Castro? What are you, masochist bootlickers who like to be sat upon? Chavez is a nascent dictator who has encouraged attacks on Jews and is a total sociopath. Castro is a dictator who has denied his people democracy for the past 50 years and created a mass diaspora of Cubans. Go to the backstreets of Havana – the place is crumbling apart. So he gets sick and who takes over? His brother. What is Cuba? A hereditary dictatorship, just like PRK? Do you think that you would be allowed to engage in your beloved “freedom of speech” in those countries? If Cuba is so great why won’t Castro hold an election? It’s like all you morons who go round with Che t-shirts. The man was a nasty mass murderer, who enjoyed executing people. “Please don’t kill me I am worth more to you alive than dead”. Bang.

  • Chris


    I note you have no answer for the Gulf War 1 ‘conspiracy theory’ and the Gulf of Tonkin is something you choose to pass off as a ‘cock up’? A cock up that led directly to a resolution authorising war? Not so, actually. I think you’ll find it was quite deliberate.

    Harry’s Place…. even the thought of it makes me feel dirty.

  • MJ

    “MJ – what’s that about ad-hominem attacks?”

    It means using personal insults and epithets instead of engaging with the point. When for instance you call people idiots, or morons, or mentally impaired, or illiterate etc etc.

    “Touch of hypocrisy there”

    Cite one instance where I have done anything remotely similar.

  • lwtc247

    “Chavez is a nascent dictator who has encouraged attacks on Jews”

    LOL. You really can’t smell your own dodo can you?

    And of course you will post your proof of that claim on this blog, won’t you.

  • Chris


    “Anyone who thinks that old fraudster Pilger is god get my vote for the loony bin.”

    Now you’ve gone too far!!!! If you can point to a single fraud perpetrated by arguably the greatest living journalist then maybe Harry’s Place is your true spiritual home. The fact that you don’t happen to agree with the man doesn’t mean he isn’t right.

    Sometimes the truth hurts….

  • eddie


    I know what an ad hominem attack is and I think you will find that most of them have been directed at me. Apologies to you, though, the hypocrisy barb – it was aimed at your colleague, Dreoilin, not you.

    Chavez – he was defeated on a cosntitutional referendum to end term limits for the president. (Putin anyone?) But he is trying agan. He has closed down TV stations and described his opponents as fascists. That’s why I used the word nascent. Not yet a dictator, but heading in that direction. He has repeatedly attacked Israel in the most violent terms, and called upon Venezuala’s Jewish community to do likewise (if you think that is ok then the moral equivalent would be a requirement that the UK muslim community should be forced to condem Hamas/ 9/11 etc)- he has also forged strong links with Iran.

    Chris. Oooerr. I’m scared now. To call Pilger a journalist is like calling Castro a democrat. Pilger is a polemicist, not a journalist; his work is tendentious, selective and full of errors. He is good at what he does, but he is quite definitely NOT a journalist. In 2003 he said “the current American elite is the Third Reich of our times” – this is somewhat similar to a remark by Chomsky about de-Nazification. If you believe such nonsense then it merely confrims my view that you are, politically speaking, gnats on the back of a dog – i.e. mildly irritating, but ultimately meaningless. Pilger is depressive, miserablist, life-denying and tendentious. No one takes him seriously any more. Even the New Statesman has sacked him. His last piece for the NS on Obama was a disgrace.

  • Chris


    my professional training is in journalism and, trust me, Pilger is a journalist of the very, very highest order. You say “polemicist” because you disagree with the message he delivers. That is your right.

    But you should not attempt to smear the name of a man who understands that journalism stands for more than… “And that’s the weather, now over to some talentless dolly bird to read out a handful of Government press releases…” Because that is what we are now reduced to. that is a tragedy and Pilger is a journalist. The fact that he has become ever more marginalised is because the truth is no longer favourable to the owners of the media. And believe me, (I’ve lived it) there is zero freedom of the press in this – and many other countries.

  • George Dutton

    “Madoff/SEC: Bush Holdovers Stonewall Financial Services Committee Investigation”

    “Harry Markopolos testified before the House Financial subcommittee that his warnings as early as 2000 and on four subsequent occasions to the Securities and Exchange Commission about Bernie Madoff'”…

  • MJ

    Well said Chris. I think Pilger’s recent article ‘Holocaust Denied’ was the finest assessment of the Gaza massacre to be found on a single page.

  • MJ


    “the current American elite is the Third Reich of our times”

    Nothing too contentious there I would have thought.

  • George Dutton

    “Eden Springs UK Ltd is owned, managed and controlled by Eden Springs Ltd/Mayanot Eden, an Israeli company which carries out grave breaches of international law. Eden Springs directly violates the human rights of the people of the occupied Syrian Golan (see Appendix A) through theft of their natural resources, including land and water. The Eden Springs company directly profits from the illegal exploitation of water from the Golan.

    The central issue is not the source of the water supplied by Eden Springs UK Ltd – there has never been any question of water from the Golan Heights being brought to the UK. The central issue concerns the violations of international law, including human rights law, by the parent company, Eden Springs Ltd/Mayanot Eden.

    We call on Scottish civil society to cease to reward with a lucrative contract an open violator of international human rights law, Eden Springs.”…

  • George Dutton

    “Out of all the devastation I have seen so far, there is one story in particular that I think the world needs to hear. I met a mother who was at home with her ten children when Israeli soldiers entered the house. The soldiers told her she had to choose five of her children to “give as a gift to Israel.” As she screamed in horror they repeated the demand and told her she could choose or they would choose for her. Then these soldiers murdered five of her children in front of her. The concept of “Jewish morality” is truly dead. We can be fascists, terrorists, and Nazis just like everybody else.”…

  • eddie

    Chrus “You say “polemicist” because you disagree with the message he delivers”. Chris, that proves that you know absolutely nothing about journalism. It is not the job of journalsits to deliver a “message” – it is their job to report objectively and with regard to the truth and to present the bigger picture. Pilger does none of these things. A Martian reading Pilger would have no notion that countries such as China, DPK, Sudan, Zimbabwe exist, despite their greater horrors, because he never mentions them. He turns a blind eye in pursuit of his twisted agenda, which is basically that the USA is the source of all evil in the world. He is an evil man. And I mean that in the full sense of the word.

    So tell me exactly whre there is freedom of the press. How, for example would you rate the UK against a few of your pet countries? Do you care to share your thoughts?

    MJ – my point exactly, you condemn yourself out of your own mouth. Unless you were being hyperbolic.

    I see none of you have had the temerity to challenge me on Cuba. Running scared?

    George – how is Tommy getting on? Still a fan of the perjuror? You quote a comment that is anti-semitic. Example: any thoughts on the woman in Iraq who I mentioned earlier? She was part of a group that arranged for women to be raped and then sent them off as suicide bombers to reclaim their honour. Do things like that not bother you? If I then say to you that this proves that all muslims are evil, you would, quite rightly, condemn me. But that is exactly what you are doing on the quote you use. An Israeli soldier (unattributed) kills someone, therefore all Jews are immoral. You posted the quote, presumably with approval, othewise why post it? Sorry mate, and I don’t like to abuse anyone, but you are a moron. Blinkers at noon, eh? You see what you want to see and disregard the rest.

  • George Dutton

    “Things one sees from The Hague”

    “By Gideon Levy”

    “The public, moral and judicial test will be applied to the three Israeli statesmen who sent the Israel Defense Forces to war against a helpless population, one that did not even have a place to take refuge, in maybe the only war in history against a strip of land enclosed by a fence. Ehud Olmert, Ehud Barak and Tzipi Livni will stand at the forefront of the guilty. Two of them are candidates for prime minister, the third is a candidate for criminal indictment.”…

  • writerman

    The Troll unchained is a frightening beast, but only in its own estimation. In their own eyes they are formidable, misunderstood and surrounded by lesser beings who need to be put straight. In reality Trolls are rather sad and pathetic creatures.

    The crave, no, they demand attention above all things. I’m held in contempt, therefore I exist. Whatever they talk about, it always seems to come back to them, their ego, pride and conceit in the end. Me, me, me.

    Of course the Troll displays a superior intellect, erudition, education and command of language. Almost everyone else is a lesser being in need of help and enlightenment, and the Troll is always ready to help out.

    Not only do Trolls have a cartoon-like vision of themselves and their abilities, they also, and this is perhaps a more serious defect, they project this one-dimensional world-view onto the world around them, a world which they wish to control and simplify, rather like the mini-totalitarians they really are.

    Through the Trolls eyes the world and reality becomes a grotesque cartoon for simpeltons. The world is divided into them and us, good and evil, right and wrong, black and white.

    Moral clarity is their watchword, their guiding light and principle.

    Even their anger seems trite and banal. The sound of a child stamping its feet in a tantrum. Intemperence and hyperbole is another striking characteristic of the intellectual challenged Troll. The tiny, misunderstood, Troll, that when it looks into its distorted mirror thinks it sees a brave, bold, righteous, knight; a knight that ranges across land looking for fierce dragons to slay and great deeds to accomplish.

    Unfortunately for the Troll it’s all in their minds, a mere fantasy in a mirror full of lies.

  • George Dutton


    The post link above is NOT posted without the following. Thats why I posted it. As it says…

    “We ask that you do not publish or post this story on the Internet. If you have already done so, please post this statement, as well.”

    Thats why I posted the original and not a copy without the following,so people can read it in the link.

    “Barbara Lubin and all of us at the Middle East Children’s Alliance believe that we should have confirmed the story about the Gaza woman who was told by an Israeli soldier to choose which five of her ten children should die, and then witnessed their murder. We are doing everything we can now to verify the story, but have been unable to do so. We ask that you do not publish or post this story on the Internet. If you have already done so, please post this statement, as well.”

  • researcher

    writerman, why do many welcome the troll here ?

    Craig, allowing ad-hominem attacks here has the effect of driving away friendly people not interested in strife and abuse. The distracting effect of an abusive shill using your board full-time for incessantly repeated propaganda drives away people with little time to waste. The quality of the visitors and comments will suffer.

    Is Spam free speech ? Spam is commercial, shilling for secret services too. Spam is easy to detect. Ad-hominem-spam too. Please, help make this board spam-free.

  • George Dutton


    I thought you were NOT coming back on this site,you said…”This is my last post”…on a previous thread. Another one of your LIES eddie,one of many.

  • eddie

    George – my apologies to you. Truth is I couldn’t be arsed to look at yet another of your endless, tiresome links. Life is too short. I said it was my last post meaning on that thread, which it was. Brillig.

    Writerman – that sounds like a pretty good description of you and your friends here. Simpletons. That rant is also an ad hominem attack on me. Hypocrisy yet again. I have tried to raise issues related to the topics and I note that none of you have been able to argue back in any meaningful way but have instead resorted to abuse. Reason is your world view, such as it is, simply doesn’t stand up to inspection and you don’t have the arguments to deal with any criticism. Anyway I get the message and can see I am wasting my time trying to convert the deaf and the blind. I am off to San Francisco for a couple of weeks to plot world domination with my Jewish friends (he, he) – I shall leave you all to your mutual masturbation in this sad corner of the internet. It’s been fun winding you all up. Not.

  • MJ

    Eddie. I think it’s a little unfair to say that “none of you have been able to argue back in any meaningful way”. Many of us have taken the trouble to do just that. It’s just that you do tend to make an awful lot of points at the same time, and they’re not always wholly coherent, so some may fall down the back of the in-tray. Also, you’re not the only one here with points to make.

    Secondly, although I personally don’t mind particularly that you tend to start each post with a snide and derogatory put-down, it can get a little tiresome after a while. As a debating technique it’s self-defeating, because it suggests you’re not entirely confident in the strength of your own arguments.

    I rather enjoy locking horns with you because you are obviously well-informed and concerned about current affairs. One of the great things about the internet is that it is a club that has no membership restrictions, but you do have to realise that this is not Harry’s Place and thankfully never will be.

  • writerman


    Your overweening pride doesn’t have any objective basis. Why do you assume that in my little piece about the character of the Troll, that I was referring to you personally? How is it that you seem to recognise yourself in my description of an entire ‘class’ of people who inhabit the web?

    I find it amusing and telling that you even choose to reply to a comment about Trolls in general. Without realising it you provide proof of the accuracy of my observations about the Troll.

    I have to admit that I find Trolls rather unpleasant and tiresome. It must be their arrogance, conceit and pride, bordering on self-love. There’s the bizarre trait they have of wishing somehow to inflict pain on others for no apparent reason, and then provoke others to inflict pain on them in return. It’s a bit disgusting for my taste.

    And they all seem to have been to the same bad schools and have learned to use language in the same way, and the less said about their use of logic and arguments the better. The poor things get so angry and petulent when one doesn’t accept their obvious, at least in their minds, intellectual superiority.

    I wouldn’t mind them so much if their arguments were solid and a challenge, only there not, they are just irritating in the extreme, which I suppose is what gives them pleasure in life, poor things. It’s really rather sad. To be so utterly convinced that one understands so much, and in reality one understands so little.

  • writerman

    Eddie’s definition, which he offers, like so much else, without nuance or even much real thought, is so crude and embarrasingly indadequate. How can a person be so foolish to publically open themselves up to ridicule like this? But then arrogance and contempt for the abilities of others probably go hand in hand.

    Eddie, without blinking or drawing a breath, rubbishes Pilger and Chomsky like brushing a crumb off a table. Foolish, foolish, old men, to think they are held in high regard, when they are so obviously fools, compared to me, me, me! I who have done so much for the word and its intellectual advancement, yet I am unknown, but not for long. These titans have feet of clay! I will expose them as charlatans and frauds for all the world to see, me, me, me!

    This attitude would be grostesque in a pantomime with clowns preening and acting like the fool, but in the real world, it’s closer to the symptoms of the borderline psychopath, a bit like the Blair syndrome, but without his charm.

  • writerman

    The above was meant to begin with a comment about the simplistic and inaccurate definition of journalism given by Eddie. Journalism can be many things. There is no, one, correct definition of journalism. There are many styles and contexts. Pilger is just one of them. The journalist who dares to speak truth to power, as such he is a example to others.

    Another characteristic of the Troll is that they don’t mind dishing it out to others, but if somebody gives them back their own medicine they often become terribly precious and wine about how unfair people are to them and stomp off in a funk. I’m taking my ball away, so there, you won’t play by my rules, you rotters!

  • emmett

    Somewhat surprised to have waded through all 119 comments here, but the exchange was, in fact, thoroughly entertaining! A brief round-up of my own conclusions on the topics covered:

    1) History is a series of conspiracies: to overthrow governments, to assassinate leaders, to centralise power by stealth.

    2) The assault on the Middle East is simply globalisation in a hurry – and by any lies necessary. Countries interested in preserving their sovereignty (right to self-determination) will be bulldozed.

    3) The private banking families (Warburg, Rockefeller, Mellon etc) are the real power and have been for almost a century. In crude terms, the power structure is:

    1) private banks (set the overall agenda)

    2) unelected foundations and think-tanks (formulate long-term policy)

    3) government (convince the public of the need to make and sign legislation for the above)

    4) civil servants (enforce the above)

    5) everyone else (live with the consequences of the above).

    A good rule of thumb: the smaller the number of the above category, the greater the contempt/indifference for the ‘common’ man.

    4) 9/11 & 7/7: joint operations by the deep-level intelligence agencies of several countries for the advancement of the globalist agenda.

    5) the current economic ‘crisis’ is simply war by other means. It is, as I’m sure almost all here realise, meant to usher in a new era of globalised financial control.

    And as William S. Burroughs once said:

    “A paranoid is simply someone in full possession of the facts”.

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