Dandelion Salad on the Sam Adams Award 170

Quite a few internet articles have popped up, although absolutely nothing in the mainstream media. Here is one from Dandelion Salad:


Which leads me to an interesting observation. The Wikileaks press conference was attended by at least 30 TV crews and hundreds of journalists, from all over the world. But I did not see any other high profile bloggers there. Given that Wikileaks is in itself a prime example of the way that new media can get the truth out as mainstream media can’t, that was peculiar. Did Wikileaks not invite any bloggers?

170 thoughts on “Dandelion Salad on the Sam Adams Award

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  • technicolour

    agree with mj: and in any case why should belief be an issue? and why should insults like a ‘cheap little clerk’ be acceptable?

    otherwise seem to have lost direction on this blog a bit myself. it’s nice to see/hear other people here, but aware it’s not meant to be a chat forum.

  • glenn

    I’ll agree, MJ, that it’s certainly worthwhile to have dissent – the more of it the better, generally speaking. The place would be frightfully dull if everyone agreed all the time. I’m not sure of the benefit of having someone around who just disagrees and pumps the official line as a matter of course, however. We already have an entire state apparatus established to do that.

  • Clark

    Richard Robinson,

    hey, don’t let the trolls and spambots chase you away!


    I’d read many claims and counter-claims regarding 9/11, and I’d about exhausted my patience with the matter. I found the argument between MJ and Angrysoba to be refreshing and informative.


    I know what you mean about the lack of direction lately, but I think it is just circumstances – the election is over, Craig took a break to move house, etc. But when something important happens, this blog will be buzzing with interesting and diverse comment. As to it not being a chat forum, well, we’re over a hundred comments down the page. Derailing an important discussion would be wrong, but most commenters here behave responsibly.

  • Mark Golding - Children of Iraq

    Well I have nothing under my hat and I suspect some think I am talking through my hat, but I take my hat off to Vronsky and Kingofwelshnoir for the challenge and having acquired a reputation for acting at the drop of a hat, with hat in hand I accept the challenge and toss my hat into the ring – we are now on day one of ninety days ;-]

  • technicolour

    ‘pumps the official line as a matter of course’: glenn, fwiw, very recently angrysoba did exactly not that. Plus the phrase ‘it’s worthwhile to have dissent’ argues that there is only one established line of thinking here: how dull.

    I find angrysoba’s posts to be interesting rather than reactionary and he is solid on Afghanistan (something I know a little about). I also share many of your (glenn & vronsky) viewpoints and welcome your posts, by the way.

    Vronsky: do you two have beef?

  • dreoilin

    Goodonya, Mark. 🙂

    Me, I’ve just read Gordon Duff at Veterans Today, and I’m getting more skeptical of Wikileaks by the minute … Unless, as another blog suggests (http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/julian-assange-and-wikileaks-warning-how-hide-elephant-7285) Assange is being used. That the guy himself is legit and doesn’t realise he’s being manipulated. But, I would have thought he was too clever for that — unless his ego is getting in the way.

    I do hope Richard just takes a break, and comes back in a while.

    By the way, I was left with my jaw hanging by this:

    “Ben-Ari, who recently asked the United Nations to investigate “U.S. war crimes”, had already taken to the podium and delivered a combative address …”

    *Knesset softens title of motion on ‘U.S. war crimes’*


  • Ed Davies

    ingo: “Blair should be declared ‘vogelfrei’, an old german term from the nmiddle ages, leaving those condemned without protection and without justice, anybody could have a go at them without regress.”

    That’s the proper meaning of the English word “outlaw” – outside the protection of the law. Still, I don’t see the connection as it’s only really a suitable route if the courts can’t get hold of the person in question; in Blair’s case a proper arrest and trial would seem more appropriate.

  • somebody


    Real News: Iraqis scoff at notion that only 100,000 civilians died in war –


    Tonight we have an exclusive interview with one of the first soldiers on the scene of the now infamous “Crazyhorse” helicopter attack in Iraq, cockpit video footage of which became the first major leak of Iraq war material on the Wikileaks website.

    In a moving interview, Ethan McCord – who has now left the army – describes how he saved a child from the wreckage of the vehicle, and the lasting effect the events have had on his life.

    And we’ll hear what one of the world’s most influential experts on counterinsurgency and modern warfare, David Kilcullen, who served as an adviser to General David Petraeus, thinks about the phenomenon of Wikileaks.


  • glenn

    technicolour: Are you referring to when AS – faced with insurmountable evidence – finally caved and admitted that Ahmadinejad didn’t call for the destruction of Israel after all? If that is what you’ve been praising him for recently, I’d say you fell for an old trick there. Clark certainly seemed to do so too.

    Maybe I was unclear about the dissent being worthwhile bit. I was agreeing with MJ for a start, and the point is that there are lots of views here, that’s how it’s supposed to be. CM wouldn’t want a bunch of yes-men toadies hanging around, any more than we’d enjoy reading notes of total agreement. And – fwiw – I certainly like reading your posts.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Richard at 1220:

    Now, if you were a carpenter…

    Don’t go! You’re one of the sanest, most humorous and most positive bloggers I’ve come across. And anyone who’s been a walrus needs to take a swim occasionally.

    Don’t let the bull-shites get you down!

    Fight, fight, fight, till it’s not worth their while hangin around!

    Play some tunes, man, play some tunes.

    Collectively, we can out-troll the trolls (by studiously ignoring them, so they gain zero traction and are unable to demonstrate their effectiveness to the King of the Trolls) and out-spam the spam-bots: ‘All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy…’

    Personally, I’ve learned a lot from reading other people’s comments, including yours.

    Several regular’s have said goodbye, only to return, and some tend to say it often, and return often. But I sense you’re not like that.

    So don’t go, we need to entheogenic consciousness hereabouts! Even the occasional magical comment brightens-up the sky.


    And then, all together, we can ensure that a small part of Albion will be dreaming still.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Jaded… are you good? Please, when you have a moment, do share with us your views on Assange, sandbanks, dreaming Albion, dandelion salad and anthropophagy.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    dreolin: The absurdist, yet engaged, emotive mentation associated with Tropicalia (see, anthopophagy) is a good antidote to both Operation Krackpot’s machinations and the zeitgeist of wolverine crosses blistered by the north wind.

  • Vronsky

    “Vronsky: do you two have beef?”

    If angrysoba had been a regular member of the forum, occasionally expressing one view, sometimes another (like the rest of us) then his views would have been answered as civilly as the others. However he appeared out of nowhere, simultaneously with Larry, at the dog-whistle mention of 9/11. His initial posts consisted largely of personal abuse – termms like ‘moron’ and ‘swivel-eyed conspiraloon’ had not previously been seen on the forum. It was only when these tirades plainly weren’t cutting the mustard that the calmer persona appeared, although the mask still sometimes slips. In the circumstances I think ‘cheap little clerk’ is rather inoffensive.


    Pour me a glass of that stuff you’ve got there..

  • somebody

    Suhayl You asked if I was ‘Nobody’. No I am not and therefore do not have another persona here.

    I had to look up the meaning of anthropophagy and wished I hadn’t. Yuk!

  • angrysoba

    “technicolour: Are you referring to when AS – faced with insurmountable evidence – finally caved and admitted that Ahmadinejad didn’t call for the destruction of Israel after all? If that is what you’ve been praising him for recently, I’d say you fell for an old trick there. Clark certainly seemed to do so too.”


    You’re quite right that I retracted something I had said in the face of evidence against it. I don’t see what is so shameful in that.

    I should point out, however, that the evidence was from a friend of mine who is a speaker of Farsi (not an uncommon ability among Iranians).

    I would hope that you too would see fit to retract a view if you were presented with a preponderance of evidence (it needn’t be “insurmountable”). But I try not to hope for too much.

    As it happens, I generally enjoy the more sober comments from the more sober commenters such as technicolor, Suhayl Saadi, Richard Robinson and Clark. I also quite like MJ and King of Welsh Noir for our amicable disputes on 9/11-JFK. I am quite sure I am correct and quite sure they are both completely wrong on their hobby horses but I respect the fact that their beliefs are sincere and are not simply believing in something because they think it is the right-on thing to think.

    I can’t, unfortunately, say the same about you as you blow hot and cold constantly and whenever you extend an olive branch it turns out to be a stinging nettle. Ha ha!

  • angrysoba

    “If angrysoba had been a regular member of the forum, occasionally expressing one view, sometimes another (like the rest of us) then his views would have been answered as civilly as the others. ”

    Well, Vronsky, I suppose I can’t expect you to mischaracterize any less than Glenn, can I?

    Would you like to locate the time that I first appeared on the forum and would you like to show me who was the first person to start using the word “moron”? It certainly wasn’t me. And it wasn’t Larry either. The same goes for the word “conspiraloon”.

    Also, I find it amusing that you have started parroting dreiloin’s theory about me:

    “Angrysoba is a well-briefed and skilful advocate, and therefore good exercise. He doesn’t believe a word of what he writes, however, and it shows.”

    I do wonder why you think this. No chance of any evidence forthcoming is there?

  • dreoilin

    “I should point out, however, that the evidence was from a friend of mine who is a speaker of Farsi (not an uncommon ability among Iranians).”






    You don’t need friends who speak Farsi to get to the truth. Or sarcasm either.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Vronsky, gladly! Sip from the jaam (goblet) and dream!

    Somebody, I am very pleased to know that you are not Nobody. Nobody, I am very pleased to learn that you are not Somebody.

    Alice, to the March Hare

    My reference to anthropophagy really alludes to its metaphorical use (as a ‘cannabalism of cultures’) by the Brazilian cultural and political movement of that denotation of the 1960s/ 1970s, which entailed, among many other things, some really stunning music by the likes of Gil Gilberto, Os Mutantes (with Rita Lee), Caetano Veloso, Gal Costa and more.

    Under the Lula Presidency, of course, Gil Gilberto became Minister of Culture.


  • angrysoba

    “You don’t need friends who speak Farsi to get to the truth. Or sarcasm either.”

    No, but it helps.

    The point, my little wren, is I wanted to find an unbiased source which is not easy to find on internet forums.

    Besides, pasting a lot of links is not in itself proof. Two can play at that game…


    “Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks.”




  • technicolour

    hey there dreoilin. I tend to trust primary research more myself. Net research (good stuff of yours) takes endless collation/triple checking of sources. Also think sarcasm quite understandable, as neither Vronsky or glenn were at all polite.

    But weird this, kind of playground stuff. Don’t think angrysoba (despite some random attacks eg on Mary) particularly deserves to be singled out. What precisely are his ‘dissenting views’ – could someone remind me? Or maybe don’t as it all starts to sound a bit Maoist.

    peace n love!

  • dreoilin

    “I tend to trust primary research more myself.”

    Not sure what you mean, Tech. Juan Cole speaks Farsi. And the links I gave also relate to speakers of Farsi. Don’t know if you read them all.

  • angrysoba

    “Not sure what you mean, Tech. Juan Cole speaks Farsi. And the links I gave also relate to speakers of Farsi. Don’t know if you read them all.”

    The links I provided were also from Farsi speakers.

    Moreover, they were spokespeople for the regime rather than craven apologists.

    Like I said, two can play at that game.

  • dreoilin

    “MEMRI (its text of the speech is available here) is headed by a former Isareli military intelligence officer and has sometimes been attacked for alleged distortion of Farsi and Arabic quotations for the benefit of Israeli foreign policy. On this occasion they supported the doveish view of what Ahmadinejad said.

    “Finally we come to the BBC monitoring service which every day puts out hundreds of highly respected English translations of broadcasts from all round the globe to their subscribers – mainly governments, intelligence services, thinktanks and other specialists. I approached them this week about the controversy and a spokesperson for the monitoring service’s marketing unit, who did not want his name used, told me their original version of the Ahmadinejad quote was “eliminated from the map of the world”.

    “As a result of my inquiry and the controversy generated, they had gone back to the native Farsi-speakers who had translated the speech from a voice recording made available by Iranian TV on October 29 2005. Here is what the spokesman told me about the “off the map” section: “The monitor has checked again. It’s a difficult expression to translate. They’re under time pressure to produce a translation quickly and they were searching for the right phrase. With more time to reflect they would say the translation should be “eliminated from the page of history”.


    Craven apologists?


  • angrysoba

    “‘little wren’: tautology”

    Don’t believe so. Wrens may be small but some wrens are smaller than others. Smallness is not part of the analytic a priori definition of “wren” either.

    Let’s compare:

    “My unmarried spinster” would be a case of tautology since spinsters are by definition unmarried and “unmarried” isn’t a relative term.

    “‘my’: highly doubtful, in the circs ”

    That, on the other hand, is quite true.

  • angrysoba

    “Craven apologists?”

    Errr…do you think “eliminated from the pages of history” is the correct translation?

  • somebody

    How ornithological we are becoming.

    LfStL refers to us as ‘silly gooses’ (sic)

    AS is addressing Dreoilin as a ‘little wren’ now.

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