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7,867 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis continued”

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  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    michael norton

    Following the NC-T trial do you still still think that those convicted could be involved, even in some peripheral way, with the murders at le Martinet parking ?

    My current thinking is that the possibility of a ‘robbery gone wrong’ of the SAH party is pretty low if only because Zainab has presumably recalled all she can and that, as far as we know, this did not include anything that would support a robbery piste.

    All that remains for me is some remote possibility that, as SAH was walking around Arnand, the carpenter was visited by his kurdish partner-in-crime who went off the reservation for some reason.

  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    michael norton

    “Pierre Morange? I think he hired Sylvain Mollier to protect Claire”.

    Poor pick. Particularly when Menegaldo was available.

    You remember, the ex-legionnaire. . .

    • Reply ↓
      michael norton

      GiP
      do you recall that Sylvain Mollier went out quite unexpectedly, recalling Claire from her business to take over infant care
      at very short notice.
      When he did not come home, she straight away alerted the authorities.
      Yet he was a very fit local man, why should she be SO QUICKLY WORRIED?

      • Reply ↓
        Good In Parts

        michael norton

        The obvious answer, though not one that I necessarily subscribe to, is that SM had at some point in his seducteurising told CS that for obvious reasons he had to keep a watchful eye out as he might well be shot in the street.

        After all, that is what he told another amour…

        • Reply ↓
          michael norton

          GiP
          surely you are not suggesting that The Slaughter of the Horses, four dead, two girls traumatised, for life, was about a disgruntled husband, seeking revenge on Sylvain Mollier.
          If that were the case, the French authorities would have cleared it up many years ago.

          Why are the Authorities so very quiet?

          • michael norton

            No update to the Slaughter at the fourth “birthday”

            yet Francois Hollande was going to insure that everything would be done to get to the bottom of this crime.
            If they are to clear it up, they only have a few months left, on the watch of Hollande.
            There is now an utter lack of openness, we are not even sure if the investigation is still live?

    • Reply ↓
      michael norton

      Ba’al Zevul sorry no idea what you are on about.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annecy_shootings

      French President Francois Hollande said “I expressed my emotion earlier today to the British people in relation to the terrible deaths.
      Both the French and the British family have been impacted by this terrible event
      and we will do our utmost to find the perpetrators,
      to find the reasons behind that event.
      Our police are co-operating and everything that is found will be shared.”

      • Reply ↓
        michael norton

        My point was

        Francois Hollande seemed to want to get to the bottom of it, four years ago.
        If we could ask the President “How is it going”
        that could be useful

  • Reply ↓
    James

    Was it ever confirmed that Menegaldo and Mollier lived in the same building ?
    (or Mollier’s sister …and they dated ?).

    How many suicides (particularly “violent”) happen in “the comfort of your own home” ?

    Menegaldo seems an “outlier” with regards age.
    But a “keeper of guns at home”, puts him in the mix.

    • Reply ↓
      Good In Parts

      James

      Yes, same block of flats. PM had a seven year long relationship with SM’s sister

      Not only a “keeper of guns at home” but when he was arrested(*) they confiscated at least one handgun.

      * remember EM dissembling about that simple ‘interview’ that turned out to be a ‘strip and slip’ interrogation.

      I don’t think it was him because of the above. He would have been prepared for an interrogation and his paperwork and gunsafe would have been in order.

      However ‘outlier’ is the name of the game.

      Why should age is a criteria ? After all it could be a disgruntled father who’s beloved daughter went off the rails after SM used her. Maybe she took to drugs, started living rough in the woods and ended up dead somehow.

  • Reply ↓
    James

    To me, Patrice Menegaldo has to be the “Prime Suspect”.
    Of course, that doesn’t mean “he done it”.

    But then there’s the question of “motive” ?
    With so little known, that is the elephant in the room.

    • Reply ↓
      michael norton

      As I have mentioned before,
      Claire Schutz knew or suspected what her common-law partner got up to.
      It has been said, that at short notice, Sylvain contacted Claire at her business and requested she take over baby care,
      so he could go out.
      Now, she most probably had an idea what was the nature of his urgency.
      She had to leave the Pharmacie, of which, by this time, she was the sole trader, we are also expected to understand that at this time, Claire was the main financial surporter of her family. ( Claire, Sylvain & their baby)

      On the face of it, it would be very selfish of Sylvain to drag her unexpectedly away from her business, just so he could go cycling for a few hours.

      He was off for a meeting.

      He must have been able to give Claire a reasonably convincing story – possibly- with elements of the truth.

      When Sylvain, did not come home as expected, she straight away went to the police to inform them of her concerns.

      This is not normal behavior.
      He was a very fit, local man, what on earth would she have to fear.
      I surmise that Sylvain Mollier must have told Claire Schutz, at least part of what he was involved with, enough to scare her.

      Claire does have very useful information.

      This information “needs” to be kept secret.

      Hence all the court cases to “encourage” the media to lay-off Claire.
      Eric Maillaud and Maître Caroline BLANVILLAIN did their best to surpress the truth about what Claire Knew.

      BFMTV were eventually let off after several court cases, as they had not actually broken the law.
      Neither Maitre Caroline nor Prosecutor Eric, have ever made a following press state after the final reversal of legal opinion.
      BFMTV have also not crowed about their success,
      now why the silence, once they had been found to have acted lawfully.

      Answer

      THREATS

      • Reply ↓
        Good In Parts

        michael norton

        My take, SM was essentially a loner with two hobbies, to wit seducterising and cycling.

        Claire was (and is) a smart woman who had the measure of him. She knew that a 5000 euro cycle and the ‘time off’ to use it would keep him on the straight and narrow.

        Let him ride through the pain barrier a couple of times a week, get his fix of endorphins, he wouldn’t be wandering.

  • Reply ↓
    James

    If Mollier was the target, then the killer must have know he would be at the Martinet.

    The Mollier family aren’t shocked that he was at the Martinet. His uncle said he rode it regularly.
    The Schutz family are shocked he was there. Claire’s father says he and Mollier discussed a different route.

    There is a suggestion that there was “tension” in the Schutz family, with regard to Claire’s relationship with Mollier. Claire’s family were “local entrepreneurs”, whereas Mollier was a welder at a local factory… and had decided to take advantage of the generous leave offered under French Law.

    If Menegaldo was the killer, as well as having access to firearms AND the capacity to use them, he would have the advantage of being able to easily recognise Mollier.

    If Menegaldo was the “Prime Suspect”, it would seem likely that he would have been a “hired hand”. Catching the killer would have been “top priority” for the police, BUT if he was only “hired”, then the victory is hollow.

    There would be little “grace” granted to a hired killer, who was willing to “spill the beans” and inform on his unknown “employer”, if he had also carried out a “mass killing” whilst murdering his intended prey.

    Whatever happened that afternoon, and from who’s hand it was committed, it went “horribly wrong”.

    And the best laid plans to cover the tracks of the killer, may have hidden his identity in a “local, little reported” killing, but this incident was “front page, world news”. The French police would be under enormous pressure to catch the killer….and (subsequently) catch the person(s) who had employed them.

    Menegaldo is dead. If he were the killer and the hired hand, the link to his employer may have gone to the grave with him.

    • Reply ↓
      Trowbridge H. Ford

      Of course, what you are suggesting about Menegado applies even better to William Hershkovitz who was working for the Mossad, and was increasingly indicating that he was going to spill the bean on what he had been put through, resulting in his being immediately disposed of.

      Still nothing on Veronique!

      • Reply ↓
        michael norton

        Indeed, very difficult to find any recent news about Véronique Denizot
        who may or may not have taken over the case?

    • Reply ↓
      James

      Vice Prosecutor in Lyon previously.
      And before that Vice Prosecutor in Grenoble.
      Career lawyer for the Crown (French), as they pretty much all are.
      There were a number of appointments/changes made in May/June ’16. Hers but one.
      I doubt Eric’s departure is anything but “routine” on “the circuit” with regard to Judges, Magistrates and Prosecutors that represent the Crown.

  • Reply ↓
    James

    GIP

    I don’t think Mollier was the “cad about town, making use of the female population as he pleased”.
    Nor do I think he was going to get “the family man of the year award”. He was, after all, a divorcee who had just produced a child “out of wed-lock”.

    He “may have” created “some jealousy” from his “luck”.
    A younger and richer “chica” on his arm. Three years off work. A nice new bike to play with.
    Not bad for a factory welder, who hadn’t moved far from the place of his birth.
    I am “positive” that he had his fair share of “enemies” and people that would want to see him “fall”.

    But this is murder. And murder committed in cold blood with malice of forethought.
    If Mollier was the “Prime Target”, then a “Prime Suspect” (not necessarily “the killer himself”) would logically come from someone that had a grudge….and a pretty serious one at that.

    Initially, going off Eric’s assumptions of the incident….
    The killer lay in ambush for his victims (Al Hilli or one of their party).
    Mollier was not suppose to be at the Martinet.
    The killer was a “hired hand”. Or as it is commonly called “a professional hitman”.

    It is “questionable” if Eric was able to deduce all this, from the little information that the crime scene held.

    I believe, it was either Al Hill or Mollier that was the Prime Target. I sway to it being Mollier.
    As such, (either way) the killing spree that occurred, was not suppose to happen.
    Why did it happen ?

    If I sway to it being Mollier who was the target, then I doubt the Al Hilli family would be “useful eye witnesses” to the murder. What could they say. A man on a motorbike, wearing a helmet, shot a man on bicycle and then made his getaway. And no, I didn’t give chase as I had my family with me and the man clearly had a gun !

    Did Al Hilli pose a “real threat” to the gunman ? I doubt that. Al Hilli was unarmed. Al Hilli knew that ! And if Mollier was indeed shot first, then Al Hilli would have “run like the clappers” to get away (once he realised what had happened).

    Did Al Hilli pose a threat to the gunmans escape ?
    That maybe the possible. He certainly could have….in the eyes of the gunman. Of course this would also be dependent on how the gunman was going to escape. In the back of someones van ? On a motorbike ? On the back of a motorbike ridden by someone else ? By foot through the forest ?

    Maybe Al Hilli “helped” in the possible escape of Mollier ….by accident ?
    Is this the reason for the “never mentioned” broken roof rail. Did Mollier run for the departing car, grab hold of the roof rail and try to hold on to it.

    A hired “professional” hitman Or a “paid for local”, with experience in killing ?
    Or someone with a grudge…with experience and local knowledge ?

    Maybe the new “boss” will review the file and release some info to get things “moving” again.
    Or maybe not.

    • Reply ↓
      Good In Parts

      James

      “I believe, it was either Al Hill or Mollier that was the Prime Target. I sway to it being Mollier.”

      These days I too sway to it being Mollier however I am still open to it being the SAH party or other outliers such as WBM or PB and his two un-named compagnions.

      WBM seems reasonably predictable in his cycle route, probably more so than SM. I seem to remember that WBM stated that he had previously been to Le Martinet parking approx 10-20 times. So whilst the decision to go cycling might have been made that afternoon, anyone observing him cycling from Lathuile towards Chevaline would have a good idea of his destination.

      At first sight PB and the two ladies would seem unpredictable. Indeed it was noted somewhere that PB did not normally head up to the col via this particular route. However their trip was pre-planned and likely pre-booked.

      If I am correct in my understanding of how overnighting in the mountains works, PB would have reserved that particular refuge with the keyholder. On their way to Le Martinet they would have stopped to pick up the key.

      It also seems likely that they would have lodged their planned itinerary with either the keyholder or mountain rescue. I could be wrong about this but my guess is that, as a mountain guide, he was a by-the-book kind of person in this regard. Of course they could also have plastered details of their impending trip all over social media.

      So, in summary, PB+2 could have been leaking details of their destination and timing for days rather than the mere hours of leadtime that the other parties could maximally give.

      I’ll post tomorrow on motives and ‘living in fear’.

      • Reply ↓
        James

        GIP

        Knowledge of “who was going to be where” would seem crucial to this investigation.
        PB, WBM, SM or SAH (or combinations therein).

        Taking it one stage further (or down one route), Eric focused on SAH. However, Eric could have said “I believe it was a random mass killing”. Afterall he had discounted SM as being the target (he was there by accident… Eric concluded).

        But why did Eric assume it had to be an attack on SAH and not on SM ….and not “random” ?
        What was it that made Eric “conclude” the attack was “targeted” in the first place.

        The police do not need to “specify” their strategy.
        They may even “false flag” an idea, in order that they catch a killer (catching a killer is afterall their objective…not Public Relations).

        The “closest” there is to “knowing” where Mollier was going, is Claire’s father. And he said he wasn’t going their…he was going here.

        He pertains to know where Mollier was “going” that day.
        And that is strange….given they didn’t “get along”.

  • Reply ↓
    Bacchus

    Certainly Zainab and Zeena remember some new things. It’s normal. If it not help the investigation, certainly these informations are not “politicaly” convenients.

  • Reply ↓
    James

    Moving away from “conspiracy theories” and “secret meetings”, what made Eric presume the killer was targeting one particular person(s) ?

    Eric said (when treating the Al Hilli family as the targets) “they weren’t followed”.
    Was it from this, he concluded that “it was an ambush” ?

    But IF the Al Hilli family had “no idea” where they were going, then how could they be ambushed.
    So the “pre planned meeting” theory comes into play.

    Using Eric’s “thinking”, it would be fair to say Mollier WAS followed.
    1. WBM was at his rear.
    2. A motorcycle could have easily come up behind him and overtake him.
    But STILL there is a problem. The idea of a person “following Mollier” until he reaches some isolated spot of other, is rather bizarre. Say he kept on the track and cycled only round villages.
    So the “pre planned meeting” theory comes into play.

    OR Mollier’s route that day was known (so no need to follow him !). THEN we can use that word “ambushed” again.

    The “third” option is “the random killer”. That would also be “an ambush”.
    A killer sits and waits (and waits and waits and waits) for a cyclist to pop up !
    But that is “beyond” weird.

    The really “odd” thing about this, is the police have never said that “Biker Lyon” was and is the one sighted by all the key witnesses. He was seen by ONF1, ONF2 and WBM.
    Without any official timeline to go on, we can’t even come close to assuming that.

    Going for a “radical” hypothesis in that case (the police refuse to inform the public of a potential random killer in “them there parts) it would be “fair” to say……
    …..WBM and ONF2 have conspired and are implicate in the murders of Mollier and the Al Hilli family.
    Why not ?

    The biker “they claim” to have seen, has never been found.
    The “large vehicle” that WBM saw, is unknown….and must be assumed “never existed”
    The BMW 4×4 that was seen by ONF2 is unknown….and must be assumed “never existed”
    WBM has no “alibi” as to his whereabouts that day…other than “I was behind Mollier” and “I was found departing the murder scene, having attended the scene”.

    Lets face it, the police are doing nothing to “quash” such a theory !

    • Reply ↓
      Good In Parts

      James

      WBM has a kind of “alibi” in the form of base station logs entries for his mobile phone which must be at the very least ‘not inconsistent with’ the account he gave.

      Plus the timestamped photgraphs on his phone.

      • Reply ↓
        James

        GIP

        …you’ve taken us back to the “no signal” dilemma.

        I guess it’s difficult to get a signal at the Martinet…..
        But “on” the Combe D’Ire Route, PD got a signal and made a call. And it appears Mollier took one.

        Wasn’t there a photo of a policeman on his mobile at the carpark ? Or was that at the barrier at the bottom. I can’t recall.

        Logically, the police would have “captured” all the “phone signals” that were pinging away in that area, on that afternoon. That’s how they found the Lyon biker….in the end !

      • Reply ↓
        James

        GIP

        “…..in the end” is my “spat” at the investigation.
        It all seems to be a “oh yeah, and we found this” type approach. It’s all a bit “ad hoc”.

        Re the “telephone pings”. Some have them, some don’t ! Who knows who’s “pinged” and who’s didn’t.
        I’m guessing “everyone” had a phone….and even if anyone had them switched off, no one (except of course “the killer”) had taken the damn battery out !!!!! (because that’s “how” it must have happened…according to Eric !).

  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    James

    On the subject of data (mis)management, it is my opinion that the ‘piste approach’ led to a kind of ‘data siloization’ whereby separate pools of candidates were developed based on each hypothesis.

    Thus the killer could be missed because the hypotheses do not include the real target or real motive.

    A unified pool would give better ‘coverage’.

    P.S. you are probably right about SM not being a ‘cad around town’. The second paragraph anout his luck is pretty well spot on too. However I still think that a motive such as ‘three years cycling leave’ could be sufficient for an obsessive assailant.

    Slightly off topic, having drunk the localist kool-aid (and gone back for top-ups), this perspective potentially does allow Zainab to have been deliberately (but mistakenly) targeted and shot.

    A local, french, killer shouting expletives as he approaches le parking might be so focussed on SM as to experience a kind of tunnel vision which might be further exacerbated by any mask worn obscuring his peripheral vision. Thus when he did become aware of the BMW he would prioritize Zainab because she was apparently going to get in the driving seat.

    You may not think that a child that young could be mistaken for an adult driver but from the viewpoint of the killer she may have been assumed to have been crouching down for cover. A quickly taken shot to the shoulder then makes sense.

    The ‘bad man’ could then be further surprised when the car apparently took off in reverse without the driver.

  • Reply ↓
    James

    The “mis-management” of information….or even “accessing” the right information is always going to be crucial in an investigation of this type.

    The call to Mollier from his ex was traced/tracked/became known.
    And the “ping” data “helped” locate the Lyon Biker (after sometime).

    I assume “everyone’s” ping data that was there that afternoon, has also been “looked into”.

    An RAF serviceman in the UK went missing recently, on a night out on “the town”.
    No trace of him has been found.
    The police did seize a “bin lorry” as it was in the same location as the serviceman’s mobile phone. This location was “several miles, in the other direction” to where he was heading (but no trace of the phone was located).

    Mobile phone “ping data” seems to be increasing important in trying to locate a person (from a “missing person” to a “potential murderer”).
    Obviously this becomes a “data mining” exercise….but rather a crucial one.

    With the missing RAF serviceman, it is not known if the police have reviewed CCTV footage from “traffic cameras” and so forth, in the area where the last signal was traced to.
    Possible motives are, at this time, unknown….and police are “playing down” the fact that the area that the serviceman’s mobile stopped transmitting it’s “ping data” was near to “USAF Mildenhall” (or RAF Mildenhall, which is leased to USAF).

    A “piste” in that case would be “search CCTV around the area where the last known mobile “ping” came from.
    And then trace vehicles in that location, at that time.

    Interesting is that MI5 would “likely” be involved by now, due to the suspicious nature of this disappearance and lack of any trace of this soldier….and yet, that doesn’t get “shouted from the roof tops”.
    Infact, given the current “treat level” for UK servicemen and women “at home”, the news reporting is very much “non event” stuff. A bit like “Chevaline”….once the dust settled.

    • Reply ↓
      Good In Parts

      James

      “I assume “everyone’s” ping data that was there that afternoon, has also been “looked into”. “

      I am willing to bet that it has not. Specifically, I believe that data from the ONF TETRAPOL style network could not have been analysed, because if it had the ‘ONF swap’ would have been resolved sooner.

      • Reply ↓
        James

        Assuming the killer HAD used a mobile phone (at some point in the last 20 years !) and that ON THAT AFTERNOON he had either “left it at home or somewhere” or “had disabled it by removing the battery” then ALL OTHER phones should be traceable.

        Infact, we could assume that this data (call and ping) has been captured…. hence the “capture” of the Lyon Biker (which took some time !) and the knowledge of Mollier’s ex calling him (although they could have just unlocked his phone and seen the “call log” on that one).

        From that, we could say “there were two bikers” OR “there was one biker….and a murderer who didn’t have the battery in his phone and we don’t know how he got to and from the Martinet”.

        Playing “devils advocate” we can see that….

        SAH had his phone battery in. His friend said something about the “geo tracking” him.
        SM had his phone battery in. He took a call from his ex.
        PD had his phone battery in. He called the emergency services.
        MCL had his phone battery in. The police say, that’s how they eventually found him

        …..and there is no evidence that any other mobile phone, in that area, at that time, had it’s battery in !

        We can assume that ONF2 (x2) had mobile phones.
        We can assume that ONF1 had a mobile phone.
        And we know WBM had a mobile phone…..but it didn’t work.

        In the mysterious case ongoing in the UK, the police have released “bits” of information. And there search pattern reflects this information.
        They have said that “the mobile phone of the person they are searching for, was travelling at a speed that suggests they were in a vehicle”.
        So “data” enables the police to tell “the location” of a mobile phone AND “the speed/direction” of travel.

        I am assuming that, somewhere along the route to the Martinet, ping data (and “a signal”) was achievable. PD made a call. SM received a call.
        So, data relating to ONF2, ONF1 and WBM should be able to be collected.
        The biker from Lyon’s was !

        …..but I guess he had his battery in !

        • Reply ↓
          James

          The point being…..
          …if “accounted for” mobile phones do not have “ping data”, then for that person, it looks “very bad”. Very, very bad indeed.

          The “argument” that there was “someone else there” but that they “must have disconnected their battery” is “sound” ONLY IF that person or persons were SIGHTED by a witness.

  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    James

    On that basis I would be more concerned about ONF2. Assuming that the 15:44:59 chronodate for the call made by PB is correct, the only known vehicle that could have been involved is ONF2 (by means of dropping off one of the pair).

    If you don’t think that likely, then you have to look for another vehicle/person.

    The only such ‘known unknown’ left is farmer Janin’s apparent sighting of an MC up on the Col.

    Or just possibly, an additional MC (possibly sighted by Claude Antoine and which is currently attributed to the TBR).

    What I would do is go back to the satellite imaging companies that supplied the images used for the search for the non-existant X5 on the col and get the IR or day-night band imagery.

    There is a chance that this would show up the putative Janin MC because it’s slow progress would leave the exposed engine nice and toasty. So, although smaller than an X5, the IR contrast with the grassy Col should mean it stands out like a sore thumb.

    Let’s not forget that J-MD blames the British Police for the failure to find the MC that Janin clains to have seen on the Col !

    See https://deadzone61.wordpress.com/tck-forum-public/comment-page-41/#comment-15251

    • Reply ↓
      James

      GIP

      I have to deal with “what is”.

      The farmer sees a biker. That can’t be Lyon. Eric says so.
      The biker wants to cross the Col. He hasn’t crossed it yet.

      The “ping” data.
      It’s not known.

      WBM could not make a call.
      ZAH could identify “who shot the gun”. He (whoever he is) tried to beat her.

      The KNOWN story is “random”. The police fail to qualify things. But they will not.
      Someone is “cohoots” with someone else.

      Lets “roll the dice” ?

      That’s logic.

  • Reply ↓
    Pink

    You are skirting around something I have tactfully tried to point out before without being to blatent and may or may not be relevant just think back to sorenson he liked to “record” stuff incognito and you can’t do it here eighty four reasons why not .

    • Reply ↓
      Good In Parts

      michael norton

      My modest proposal would be for les gendarmes to persuade CS to ‘endorse’ a public appeal. Not actually make one, just endorse an appeal by le gendarmerie.

      The family lawyer could sit alongside Vinemann at the launch and read out a short statement, something along the lines of :-

      The family wish to thank the public for respecting their wish for privacy during a time of intense grief. Their wish for privacy and the avoidance of media intrusion into their private family life remains the same however they wholeheartedly support the investigation and their wish for privacy should not dissuade anyone from contacting the investigators.

      If you have any information which may aid the investigation please discreetly bring it to the attention of les gendarmes using the confidential hotline.

      We have been assured that following the departure of wreckless eric, the practice of blabbing salacious but irrelevant gossip to the media has been discontinued, permanently.

          • michael norton

            If you go on Le Dauphine.com all you get is: Annecy – Véronique Denizot

            Annecy – Véronique Denizot is tipped to replace Attorney Eric Maillaud is announced in Clermont-Ferrand
            but it is behind a paywall.

            So do this just mean that Le Dauphine Libere are not interested in who is the Prosecutor in Annecy, they do not know or they do not think the people of Haute-Savoie need to know?

          • michael norton

            Looks like the mutiny in Aiton prison ( near Albertville)
            has been brought under control.
            Who do we know who are cooling their heels in Aiton.
            http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2016/10/16/chambery-aiton-prison-des-incidents-en-cours-a-la-prison-d-aiton

            A riot started this Wednesday, August 7, around 15:30 in the penitentiary center of Aiton, in Savoie. We still do not know the exact circumstances, but the fire starts were reported in the courtyard, and firefighters and gendarmes of the company Aiguebelle are currently on site. These are eight detainees who committed degradations according to the director of the institution.
            Début d’émeute dans la prison d’Aiton, en Savoie

            Des départs de feux ont été signalés dans la prison d’Aiton, à vingt kilomètres d’Albertville. Les pompiers de Savoie évoquent un départ d’émeute.
            This is not the first such incident. Particularly violent riots had already touched the Aiton prison in October 2015. In March, a young supervisor had been badly burned by an inmate.

            looks like riots are common place in Aiton.

        • Reply ↓
          Good In Parts

          michael norton

          Thank you. It seems to me that some kind of ‘compromise’ similar to this is pretty much the only way forward.

          The family are presumably so deeply invested in their particular position that they cannot unwind it completely and who can blame them ? After all it has been pretty effective, it wasn’t their family that was thrown under a bus.

          Anyone with some information needs to be publicly assured of two things, firstly that the family supports the appeal and secondly that tips will be processed with discretion and sans the strip and slip. After all, the overwhelming majority of tips will not lead anywhere.

  • Reply ↓
    James

    The “privacy Laws” in France are a joke,
    They enable “not so innocent” people to hide behind them, incase anything is “broadcast”.

    In the case of “the Alps murderers” the TV people go an shoot themselves in the foot (No.. the head), by broadcasting a still of a murder victim. Worse ! One that (for some reason unknown) has his image “deleted from the investigation” from the outset !!!!

    AND we are expected to believe “MOLLIER WAS NOT THE PRIME VICTIM”. Hahahaha !

    1. Mollier was not suppose to be at the Martinet ?
    Says who ? His uncle said he often went there.

    2. Two follows on from One. No one knew he was there ?
    Says who ? Mollier can’t say who knew he was going there. He “may have” however TOLD HIS WIFE !

    3. Mollier had a “new route” given to him by his Father-in Law ?
    Say’s the Father-in-Law….who Mollier didn’t get along with.
    And any way… Mollier was a “local avid cyclist” and had been so “for years”. A “new route” ! Kiss my **** !

    On three counts, the family of CS are being (at the very least) subversive.
    The THREE points provided by the police about Mollier “BEING IN THE WRONG PLACE, AT THE WRONG TIME” do not, in any way, shape or form, stand up to “interrogation”…..

    …..but as “media sound bites”, they work !

    • Reply ↓
      michael norton

      James, I can not understand why it is a secret; is the investigation still running?
      If the investigation is still running, who the hell is running it?

      • Reply ↓
        James

        There is probably some “protocol” or other, whereby after a certain amount of time, it doesn’t actually become a “cold case”, rather the “team” is scaled back so much, that it has no one working on it.

        At such a point, I imagine, it falls under some kind of “periodic case review” or only becomes “active” again, when or if there is any “relevant information” that (by chance) comes to light.

        I don’t think there is any “scrutiny” of it, when a “new broom” comes in.

        I believe that there was a “case review” ages ago. They were looking to see if the team should be replaced. That review found that everything that could be done, had been done”. And so, Eric remained in charge.

        To be honest, alarm bells should have rung, immediately after Eric made his first statement at 8.00am the next day. In that, it was clear “Mollier was there by chance and hadn’t even planned to be there”.
        How that was established (and by that time), God only knows. I guess “prime candidates” for the position of “Accessories To The Fact” must had told him that…..because I’m damn sure Mollier didn’t !

        The point being also, if SM had told CS that he was going “elsewhere” and then ended up at the Martinet, then that “titbit” should have also given cause for concern.

        By 8.00am, Eric had decided that
        1. It was a “Le hitman” what done it, Guv !
        and 2. the “Le hitman” was after Al Hilli.

        He was fixated on HIS “prime suspect” from that point forward.
        And yet, not a scrap of evidence to suggest Al Hilli’s brother had been involved, was ever presented.
        He may have well said “his eyes are too close together….it’s him”.

        Don’t forget, you’re dealing with “the French”. Their not the most “trustworthy” of Europeans. Glance back through their history and its awash with “double dealing” and “back stabbing”.
        Churchill even had to sink their navy, as he didn’t trust them !!!!
        The “D Day Landings” weren’t exactly a secret either. But the French were kept as much in the dark as the Germans as to “when and where”.

        In fact (and this is fact), on the night before D-Day, Churchill was raging at De Gaulle. You see, De Gaulle was more bothered about “the currency” the Allied Forces intended to use whilst in France, rather than “the actually fighting”.
        The intention was to use “scrip” or a credit currency. But De Gaulle thought this “demeaning to his nation”. I suppose, true to his vain and pompous attitude.
        I imagine Churchill must have thought…. I should have signed that damn agreement with Mr Hitler and left the damn Frog’s on their own (afterall, they did invite Hitler in, in the first place !).

        • Reply ↓
          michael norton

          Maybe because of The French State of Emergency,
          they do not want the TRUTH to come out about what Sylvain Mollier was “up to”
          and “who he was up to it with”

          but why should it be a secret
          yes or no the “investigation” is
          currently under which person?

  • Reply ↓
    Good In Parts

    James & michael norton

    Here is the GIP prescription for a post EM ‘fresh start’ :-

    1) New appeal ‘endorsed’ by CS

    2) Merge data silos into a unified pool

    3) Core timeline review by UK team

    4) Find Janin’s MC – use IR or day-night imagery

    5) Find the ‘photographer’

    6) Find the ‘bonnet thumper’ – release the robot portrait

    7) Investigate work related motive for SM as principal target

    8) Investigate wider family feud motive for SM as principal target

    9) DNA test all current and retired 3REP and gendarmes/police – every single one

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    The Schutz family, who now refuse to speak about the murders, have been receiving advice from Pierre Morange, the brother of Genevieve Morange.

    A political ally of Nicolas Sarkozy, the former French president, he is the MP and town mayor for Chambourcy, near Paris.

    Morange found himself drawn into another high-profile murder case five years ago when Christian Marichal, the chief of police in Chambourcy, was found stabbed to death at his home.

    The murder came shortly after both men had been accused of corruption, allegations they both denied.

    A year later, Morange, who said he feared for his life after Marichal’s murder, was granted a special permit to carry a handgun. Mr Morange declined to comment on the latest killings.

    Eric Maillaud, the prosecutor leading the investigation, confirmed he was aware of the tensions between the families, but added ‘they were not something I particularly wanted to make public. The family is entitled to their private life.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248973/French-Alps-shooting-Cyclist-murdered-massacre-involved-bitter-dispute-million-pound-inheritance.html#ixzz4NeZXyEMZ

      • Reply ↓
        michael norton

        GIP

        I am afraid I am unable to fathom Eric Maillaud.

        It does seem than in less than 24 hours of the slaughter, he had made his minup ( or had it made up 4 him) that Sylvain Mollier COULD NOT BE INVOLVED.
        For 4 years he stuck to that line.
        He got no where in 4 years.
        So, perhaps, Sylvain Mollier was involved?

          • michael norton

            And if Sylvan Mollier was the main target and the killers were also French, it makes the involvement of the family
            Communal-Tournier more likely.
            Bluebird claimed they were related.
            Nicole Communal Tournier was gunned down in her home six days after the release of the E-FIT-SKETCH of a mystery motorcyclist?

    • Reply ↓
      michael norton

      Great, thank you Bacchus

      The killer would have eliminated Chevaline witnesses a local drama
      Enigma policièreEntrée office in October, the new prosecutor said Annecy bring a new look. Le Parisien wrote that the cyclist was killed first.
      The arrival in early October of a new prosecutor in Annecy has revived the curiosity of the media on the enigma of the quadruple murder occurred Sept. 5, 2012 near the village of Chevaline, in the town of Doussard, south of Lake Annecy . In an interview published on 5 October by the weekly Le Messager, the magistrate Véronique Denizot, succeeding Eric Maillaud, transferred to Clermont-Ferrand, said: “I hope it will not become a legal conundrum. There is change with the arrival of a new judge and mine, we can bring a new look. ”

      The local event relayed by Le Parisien

      This Friday, October 21, is the Parisian who returns to the subject. According to the paper, which is available in multiple regional editions under the title today in France, the mysterious killer Chevaline, who shot 21 shots three members of the Al-Hilli British family on holiday in the south of the lake Annecy and cyclist Sylvain Mollier, have targeted the sport first.

      “We may not do is so far from the truth,” says Véronique Denizot, quoted by the newspaper conclusion of a long article.

      After eliminating multiple tracks, investigators would focus according to Le Parisien on a local track. Two elements motivate the police. The first concerns the weapon, a Luger P06 pistol of 7.65 mm, manufactured 56’028 copies in a “Waffenfabrik Berne (Switzerland)”; a weapon, wrote Le Parisien, would happen quietly from father to son since the Savoyard maquis of the Second World War. France sent letters rogatory to Switzerland hoping to reconstruct the history of this weapon. The second element is a certainty, that acquired by the police: the car of the Al-Hilli family was not followed when she arrived at Martinet, near the village of Chevaline.

      The track now seem to favor the investigators is that the elimination of witnesses. Al-Hilli family, installed in a camp for two days, would arrive on the scene by chance. “They putter on the roads of the villages of Chevaline Doussard and Arnand before ascending to Martinet,” said Le Parisien. Saad’s father nearby station wagon info board of the Forest Department. It is then 3:35 p.m.. The eldest daughter, often carsick, is sitting on the front passenger seat. She would have followed his father outside.

      Father and daughter have they found themselves face to face with the killer who just killed the cyclist? Panicking, the father had tried to flee. During the maneuver, the vehicle would have hooked and dragged the body of the cyclist before getting stuck. We know the tragic result. (TDG)
      (Created: 21/10/2016, 4:18 p.m.)

    • Reply ↓
      michael norton

      It always struck me that Sylvain Mollier was shot first and with the most bullets, he was a local man.
      Most murders are very local.
      I mean that the murderer knows the victim or the murderer is paid by a person who knows the victim.

      1) the only local victim
      2) the most bullets
      3) shot first
      4) common-law-husband of a local woman, her uncle of is a politician, a senior policeman close friend of his was stabbed to death in his own home, ( no one caught) so the uncle is granted a permit to carry a shooter, the uncle almost certainly had held equity in the business, now owned by Claire Schutz, Pharmacie Schuts-Morrange.

      Yet within a day Eric Maillaud has dismissed Sylvain Mollier as only being a passing cyclist?

      • Reply ↓
        michael norton

        From day two all French energies were put to the back history of the family al-hilli

        none to the back history of Sylvain Mollier,
        in hindsight i think we can say that was a blinkered investigation

        the big question is how high up did this instruction – not to look at Sylvain Mollier
        go?

  • Reply ↓
    Ricki Tarr

    Has anyone read the new book Soldier Spy by Tom Marcus

    Check out Chapter 10 involving a Russian SVR agent under diplomatic cover using a honey trap to develop a relationship and steal designs for a piece of equipment used in satellite imagery from an assistant engineer in the general area of AHs business. The Russian lady used in the honey trap worked at Farnborough Airport.

    • Reply ↓
      Trowbridge H. Ford

      Oh, you mean that MI5 agent who wrote that book about the jihadists planning to video his beheading in that North London flat which was stopped just in the nick of time.

      ‘Remember when MI5 agent Peter Wright wrote about Roger Hollis being he!

      Those agents are given all kinds of time for creative writing, especially about Russian ones,

    • Reply ↓
      Trowbridge H. Ford

      Ricki, wouldn’t you think that MI5 agent Tom Marcus would at least set the honey trap ay Oxford’s Rutherford Appleton Laboratory where Britain’s most secret nuclear research is carried on, and Saad al-Hilli was a member of rather than the Farnborough Airport?

      Tony’s stuff about the Rutherford Institute got me thinking about Saad’s connection with the right Rutherford one.

      And why the massacre of all those extras in France, of all places, and beyond in the end?

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    As Mr. Maillaud has claimed the murders can not be the act of a single man,
    we must assume a conspiracy to murder.

    How did Maillaud get away with being so useless?

    The only answer must be he was doing the bidding of the French State – or high-ups in the French State.

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    In Annecy, a new prosecutor to solve the case of the Slaughter of the Horses

    Among the new prosecutors appointed in September, Véronique Denizot in Annecy,
    took over a complex dossier qu’énorme: the killing of Chevaline
    http://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/alpes/haute-savoie/annecy/annecy-nouvelle-procureure-elucider-affaire-tuerie-chevaline-1113837.html

    This is a record of 73 volumes that it has in hand. The new prosecutor of Annecy, Véronique Denizot, must the new on an old four-year deal, which still contains many gray areas.

    “At first we start on certain assumptions. There are several, but some are preferred. Much we believe in it, then we see that the doors close to As, she says. You have to say anyway we searched, we dug all the elements and that has reached the end of what could conduct such investigation. ”

    The file is open and will remain as long as necessary

    No question of abandoning. On 5 September 2012, four people were killed on a forest road in Chevaline: Saad Al Hilli, a Briton of Iraqi origin, his wife, his stepmother and Sylvain Mollier, a cyclist from the region.

    Saad Al Hilli was he targeted because of his activity in satellite monitoring business? Or because of family heritage? Or was it the cyclist who was involved? After four years of investigations, many questions remain unanswered. It is still unknown the motive for this quadruple murder. “Between the advances in technology and science, we know very well that we can show a record after 15, 20, added the prosecutor of the Republic. Chevaline that 4 years is too long, but not that much. For the moment the file is open and will remain so as long as it takes. ”

    Reportage Marion Feutry, Ariane Combes-Savary, Jean-Jacques and Madeleine Picca Reynier Deville.

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