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7,903 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis continued

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  • into

    His alibi has fallen through? His partner has thrown him under the bus?
    Interesting if he is a Flic; that would go some way to explaining why he was so quickly dismissed as a suspect but if he was protected then, what has changed?

    How does the paragliding fit in? He could conceivably have had a paraglider on his back as he descended though that wasn’t mentioned before but that was I understood his excuse for being out and about. It is hard to imagine the exact logistics of him using a paraglider to execute the assassination but it would be creative. Could he have been some kind of logistics provider? Providing or removing that equipment used by others?

    Or is it all another drip fed distraction?

  • Good In Parts

    Deconstruction

    The recent reconstruction was apparently attended by four key witnesses:- two ONF agents, WBM and LMC.

    It is very, very, obvious that the motorcyclist who crossed paths with WBM shortly before WBM arrived at le Martinet was in fact the teenage TBR.

    So, why on earth did they not include the TBR in the reconstruction?

    Personally I would have included CA as well. His testimony about the two mobylettes that passed him is key. For the avoidance of doubt, I think that one of them was the killer and the other was the teenage TBR.

  • intp1

    Daily Mail:

    ‘I think we’re nearly there’, Annecy public prosecutor Line Bonnet said in an interview with Swiss daily la Tribune de Geneve.
    ‘We’ll succeed thanks to scientific evidence’, she said.

    What scientific evidence could have been hidden for so long?

  • Good In Parts

    Intp1

    “What scientific evidence could have been hidden for so long?”

    Good question, my best guess would be that they think that they can narrow down the P06/29 to a batch of approx 7000. Thus tracing every weapon in this particular subset would be feasible.

    My guess is that whilst it may be a good idea, even finding the weapon may not get them a conviction.

    Personally, I think that it would be better to use the resources to review base station logs from Ugine to Faverges over a period of time leading up to the murders.

  • Good In Parts

    … optimism quickly showered. In a second interview granted to the Dauphiné the prosecutor goes back on her remarks by affirming that La Tribune de Genève has distorted her answer. “We certainly have good hopes of resolving this investigation”But “there is nothing new right now” she confides to the French newspaper.

    Nothing to see here, move along now.

  • Good In Parts

    National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA)

    Murder squad detectives have received so much information in the hunt for Claudia Lawrence they have had to overhaul their entire archive system to meet recommendations drawn up by an independent inquiry.

    I wonder whether these chaps take on overseas assignments?

    It is a joint investigation after all…

    https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8488845.claudia-lawrence-police-overhaul-archive-system-after-being-swamped-by-information/

  • intp1

    The Channel 4 Murder in the Alps series has just started and though I reserve judgement till the last episode, it isn’t that bad.
    Brings up some old and some new questions. A good refresher perhaps, an opportunity to look again with fresh eyes and to introduce newbies to this puzzle which I am resigned to being unsolved in my lifetime.
    Probably those girls are watching as they are depicted. Wishing them well, as always.

    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/murder-in-the-alps

    • Jeanie

      Have been reading this blog from the start amazingly almost 10 years ago and the only new info over the years has been the huge scandals emerging about a certain cyclists former employers. Do you think there could possibly be any connection?

  • intp1

    @ Jeanie June 29 08:14
    I am not sure I can remember what scandals you refer. Can you elaborate?
    Cezus (Parent company Areva) do have sensitive products and I did find indirect evidence that the British Intelligence have had a general interest in Areva. There is one candidate scenario in which Mollier was either selling secrets or being used as bait provocateur to illicit interest from people desiring in those secrets BUT the one fact which I always come back to and cannot get past is the following: that Iqbal’s American (immigration purposes) 1st husband died on the very same day that her 2nd husband died along side her on another continent.

    The chance of two people separating and one dying and the other being murdered on the same date – being a coincidence – are literally astronomic. For the cops and the press to “wonder” if that could be a coincidence means they don’t understand probablities. It is a greater than 6-Sigma event. How can that be ignored? It must mean that Chevaline is demonstrably, statistically, extremely highly likely to be somehow connected to Iqbal and therefore Iqbal & Saad.

    • Jeanie

      Regarding scandals googling Uramin company and Namibia and also Sebastian de Montessus brings up a lot of very interesting reading Also but earlier Anne Lauvergeon. Very, very odd that first husband died on same day as the other four were murdered!

    • Noisette

      Interestingly the second episode of Murder in the Alps is not being shown on all 4 catch up. This is the episode that dealt with the first husband, Iraq links and the Swiss Bank Account.

  • intp1

    @Noisette June 30, 08:15
    I am able to play episode 2/3 on the Channel4.com site but It doesn’t go into that much detail. Overall this series, even 3* 45 minutes cannot delve deeply enough into this puzzle.
    Zaid says in episode 2 that his father (Khadim Al Hilli) opened the account as a “Pension Pot” which seems not unreasonable in the environment he was operating in Iraq. He seemed to be an avid entrepreneur.
    The account was speculated at that time to be to be with HSBC opened in 1984. It supposedly contained c. 960,000 euros, and had barely been touched since that time. Personally I don’t believe that amount would be significant to Saddam in those days.
    Khadim had owned an engineering plant in Iraq, was said to be involved with to Iraqi Kleenex, Chicken farming, & real estate. He Fled Iraq in 1969 with his family to London. An engineer by trade, he set up a factory in Pimlico and ived at March Court, Putney. He then retired to an apartment near Malaga which also became part of the inheritance, He lived in Spain until his death in in 2010 aged 91.
    An aspect I didn’t understand was the confusion about the Will.
    The original Will, if it only named one son would have likely named Zaid as the eldest. If there was a copy or forgery that named Saad also, why would Zaid have been accused of chicanery ? Which will, in any case was dated first?
    I dont think in any case that the inheritance was at the bottom of this. Eliminating Saad did not and would not have resulted to benefit Zaid, with children left to inherit a claim.
    There are far too many indications of State involvement IMHO to go down that path:
    Although it doesn’t have the hallmarks of a highly resourced operation, the ruthlessness of despatch and the efficient extraction of perpetrators does indicate a degree of proffessionalism.
    The presence of high level UK embassy officials at the scene by the next morning seems to me that at the least the All Hillis were known to the embassy. IMO, the odd decision to not open the car and wait for a forensics team from Paris is bizarre and likely to come from on high (French) level with ulterior secretive motive.
    Brett Martin (WBM) has always been wrong to me (I know some disagree) but he interfered with the crime scene massively, he was immediately briefed to the press as an RAF hero though he hadn’t served in the military for decades and he did nothing heroic.
    He was allowed to leave France within I think 2 days, before forensic evidence was processed even though he was ‘found’ at the scene. His BBC interview was odd. It looked staged and his story changed. He knew much more than the way he was presented IMO.

    The scene itself as describe by the ex Surrey Detective doesn’t add up.
    For there to be greater than 21 bullet casings a luger P08 would need to be completely reloaded at least twice. What hit man would plan to rely on an antique pistol and bring 2 extra magazines?
    I didn’t really understand where the detective was proposing that the killer hid but one anomaly for me was where he drew in Mollier’s bicycle on the left of the uphill lane in the middle of the lay by. If you look at pics released at the time there is no bicycle at that location and when the Police came to load up and retrieve the BMW the bicycle was at the top of the lay by on the right side of the lane. See this article with pics.
    https://mobile.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/tuerie-des-alpes-les-pistes-148452
    Also see that the bullet casings are marked at the bottom of the lay by, one is downhill of the beginning of the lay by.
    Why, and at what point was the killer firing from downhill of the lay by? Could Mollier have been shot as he was riding? from a vehicle?

  • intp1

    @ Michael Norton
    Exploring a theory of a rogue element of French or any intelligence org. being responsible, what could motivate such a group or individual to execute 4 people of 3 different nationalities? and badly beat and shoot a 7 yo.
    What could they gain? Could they have been recruited by outsiders? what might they, or their paymasters be so upset about?
    This was a very high profile crime and was always going to be, as committed. So infamous that they were apparently hunted down and eliminated, presumably by their own people.
    What could have been the purpose? It could not have been trivial for they would pay with their life.
    Also, I always come back to how and why could this be connected/coordinated with the exactly simultaneous death of Iqbal’s American, ex-wife Jim Thompson?

    There was another semi-connected death very soon after, Bruno somebody. ran off the road in his SUV? Do you remember that?

    • michael norton

      intp1
      Quote Daily Mail
      “They got to the ‘edge of a small road riddled with potholes,’ and Zainab got out of the car with her father.

      She recalled seeing cyclist Sylvian Mollier, and while other members of the family were getting out of the car ‘gunshots rang out.’

      Zainab was ordered back into the car by her parents, but then the shooter grabbed the girl from behind.

      ‘She first of all thought it was her father, but then saw the white skin and bare hands of her attacker, and realised it couldn’t be him.

      ‘Zainab struggled but couldn’t get out of the grip. According to her, the killer was wearing long trousers and a leather jacket.’

      Zainab was then pistol whipped and blacked out after suffering multiple facial injuries.”

      If this account is fairly accurate, it tells us a lot.

      I think it tells us that Zainab saw Sylvain before the shooting started.
      I think it tells us that the initial shots were not directed at her family.
      Sylvain would not have been wearing long trousers and a leather jacket to cycle fast up the combe.
      So the shootist ( if there were only one bad man) was not Sylvain.
      She said he was white and had bare hands, so he may have left finger prints and DNA.
      The long trousers and leather jacket, suggest he arrived on a motorcycle.

  • michael norton

    I still think it is a reasonable possibility that “the one bad man” was a pillion passenger on a motorcycle.
    Possibly Sylvain Mollier, initially, was shot in the back, as both cyclist and motorcycle ascended.
    Then the pillion/assassin got off the motorcycle, the motorcycle rider slowly rides off, down hill.
    The shootist then killed all the al Hilli adults.

    Then he returned to be sure Sylvain was dead, shooting him more times in his head and thorax.
    Then he returned to deal with the eldest daughter.
    Then he walked off the hill by descending the woods, using a compass or gps.
    at some point discarding the leather jacket, long trousers and pistol.
    So as he got out of the woods he would have been a walker.

  • intp1

    @ Michael Norton
    “If this account is fairly accurate”
    It is a long ago memory filtered by the Police and then by the DM but.
    She recalled seeing cyclist Sylvian Mollier (Because he was already there? Conscious? or she saw him ride up?), and while other members of the family were getting out of the car ‘gunshots rang out.’
    – So Al Hillis were recently arrived? when it kicked off.
    Zainab was ordered back into the car by her parents, but then the shooter grabbed the girl from behind. – this suggests that the perpetrator interacted with Zainab early in the incident, her parents were still active and vocal.
    ‘She first of all thought it was her father, but then saw the white skin and bare hands of her attacker, and realised it couldn’t be him.- her Father was still out of the car if she could have been momentarily confused about who grabbed her.
    Is it possible that the shooter grabbed Zainab as a kind of hostage, to get the Al Hilli party under control, everybody back in the car?
    However, Mollier’s DNA was supposedly found on Said and his blood was on Zainab’s shoes- this suggests that Mollier was shot even before she was grabbed, or perhaps she stepped in blood while staggering around per WBM.

    ‘Zainab struggled but couldn’t get out of the grip. According to her, the killer was wearing long trousers and a leather jacket.’

    Zainab was then pistol whipped and blacked out after suffering multiple facial injuries.” She doesn’t mention being shot; she may not have realized?

    I think it tells us that Zainab saw Sylvain before the shooting started. – Fair conclusion
    I think it tells us that the initial shots were not directed at her family. – Maybe, it suggests that shots were not taken until Mollier arrived.
    Sylvain would not have been wearing long trousers and a leather jacket to cycle fast up the combe. Yes, I dont know why she notes long trousers, I suppose it was early autumn and maybe her Father was in shorts? but don’t most/many adult males wear long trousers? Are they editing something out here? Were they e.g. leathers?
    So the shootist ( if there were only one bad man) was not Sylvain. Agreed, leather jacket not consistent with a cyclist.
    She said he was white and had bare hands, so he may have left finger prints and DNA. No gloves. Suggests didn’t care, did not think to prepare, it downgrades the degree of professionalism one could assign? Do the cops have any unmatched DNA from the shooter?
    The long trousers and leather jacket, suggest he arrived on a motorcycle. – Definitely consistent but a motorcycle is distinctive and relatively loud, why doesn’t she mention a MC? Did they edit this out?
    Also, regarding motorcycles, obviously we have the exiting photofit biker but also, do you remember a Cheesemaker/Farmer? @ 1600 h saw a large Motorcycle with saddle bags, traveling (with some difficulty) on a trail called col de Chérel which leads south from the scene . The female farmer didnt think this bike could get out on that road, going that way and so may have been relaying something (The weapon?)
    The story definitely suggests that Mollier was a target but it could be that a meeting with Mollier and other parties (potentially the Al Hillis) were all targets? If Mollier was THE target, why proceed with a big BMW full of witnesses in plain view ? Why not postpone?
    Similarly if the Al Hillis were the objective why not wait until Mollier had passed by?
    Why though, is the main question, rather than the details of the how.

    • michael norton

      intp1
      “The long trousers and leather jacket, suggest he arrived on a motorcycle. – Definitely consistent but a motorcycle is distinctive and relatively loud, why doesn’t she mention a MC? Did they edit this out?”
      Fifth of September, 15.45, it was likely warm in this part of France, then. Long trousers and a leather jacket, to me, cries out that the shootist got there by motorcycle. W.B.M claimed that a short while before W.B.M. got to the murder scene, a very slowly descending motorcyclist rode past him. I got the intimation that W.B.M. was fearful of that motorcyclist?
      If the motorcyclist seen by W.B.M. was the businessman from Lyon, who has been interviewed and released as being of very high estimation by the police/judiciary, it would be very useful if the police/judiciary would say, why this person was so highly estimed, could it be that this motorcyclist was a member of the DSGE?

      • michael norton

        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59963434
        Quote BBC “Investigators have said that Mollier had no link to the British family and was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

        A number of people have been arrested in connection with the deaths but no charges have ever been brought.

        On Thursday prosecutors said in a statement: Investigations continue to identify those who committed these crimes.

        However, they said that the recently arrested man had provided explanations and proof that excluded his possible participation in the killings.”

        This man is thought to be the ( seen by W.B.M.) motorcyclist/paraglider/business man of high esteem from Lyon.

        If this man was in the combe at that time and he was the person descending past W.B.M. and if he was not the murderer, that does not exclude him from transporting the murderer to that parking spot,on the pillion?

        • michael norton

          intp1, your June 30th bit

          Khadim, the father of the al-Hilli boys, would have been about 43 when Saad was born, a bit younger when Zaid was born, I don’t off hand know how much older Zaid was.

          My point is that for an Iraqi man, he seems to have taken to fatherhood, rather late?

          Perhaps Khadim had a previous family?
          If Khadim did have a previous family, perhaps other children were mentioned in previous wills?
          It did seem a bit strange that after starting a new life in England, where he had a wife and two sons and grandchildren, via Zaid, that Khadim, moved to Spain?

          • intp1

            I think this candidate for motive has good merit. A variation could be partners or backers of Khadim with a similar beef.

            It is also odd that the money in the account in Switzerland was not eaten into for his retirement.
            His Spanish apartment was modest by all accounts, yet he could have bought a pretty nice investment villa using this money?
            What was it being saved for? Did someone else have a claim?
            Saad had gone to Iraq a couple of years before Chevaline, it was said (by friends) to try to post-war retrieve the family house where he grew up. He was beaten up and returned home defeated. Did he stir up some attention/ill-feeling?
            There was also some kind of Iraqi conference in very nearby Geneva at the time of the tragedy.
            I can’t help but also feel that Iqbal is also entangled in this intrigue but both sides of the Al-Hilli family have some-what of a religious/political ancestry. I have in my notes that the Father of Khadim was a Grand Ayatollah Husayn al Hilli. and that Saad and Zaids Mother’s Father was Sheikh Zaid Saad al Shaaban, who had something to do with the beginnings of Muslim brotherhood.  
            Who knows what these type of connections introduce, especially if as Westerners you don’t know the culture very well.

          • michael norton

            intp1
            If only Sylvain had been shot.
            If Sylvain had been shot by an 100-75 year old luger.
            We could reasonably assume that it was a replay from war time family vendeta?

            It is not beyond the bounds of reality that Sylvain was a sleeper for some French Government Group.
            It is not beyond the bounds of reality that Sylvain had left for his three years of paternity and had recently asked to be reactivated?

            Perhaps the man who came to the first al-Hilli campsite was an older half-brother of Saad?

          • michael norton

            Perhaps Saad and the smartly dressed first campsite visitor, drove to Switzerland together to try to withdraw from the million Euro pension pot of khadim.
            Perhaps this is why Saad had a taser at home and why he had wired his property in Claygate with surveilance stuff.

            Perhaps, this is why Saad mostly went on holiday, in school term to The Haute Savoy, adjacent to Switzerland.
            Perhaps this other family of Khadim had been presuerising Zaid and Saad to access these monies?

            As you say intp1, this has a lot more merit than just brother to brother agro,
            meaning Saad and Zaid, nether of whom were poor and both had good incomes?

          • intp1

            Remember though, that Zainab says the bad man’s hand was white, not like her Father. i.e. brown.

  • michael norton

    A message is given to Sylvain that he must immediately undertake a cycle journey for a “task”. Sylvain then dumps his baby. His girlfriend gets a message that Sylvain is going cycling, so she must close her chemist shop and reclaim her child.
    She is concerned enough to call the police and tell them she is worried. W.B.M also gets a message that he also must go cycling for a “task”. I am assuming one of the al-Hilli adults, also gets a message that a “task” is about to commence. The al-Hilli car goes up the combe. Sylvain cycles up the combe. W.B.M. cycles up the combe. A motorcycle with a rider and an armed pillion ride up the combe. Almost at the same instant, all parties coalesce. Apparently, Sylvain rides past W.B.M. As Sylvain cycles past the al-Hilli group, the assassin, shoots Sylvain twice in the back from his motorcycle pillion seat. Sylvain crashes off his bike. The assassin dismounts, grabs the eldest daughter and bashes her with the luger. Al-Hilli then reverses his car and becomes bogged down.
    The shootist dispatches each of the al-Hilli adults. The motorcyclist slowly rides down the combe, staring at the slowly ascending W.B.M. The shootist fires a single shot into the eldest daughter, then walks up to sylvain and fires two shots in to his head and more shots in to his thorax. The shootist then descends the hill by going through the woods, probably using a compass. At some stage he takes off his leather jacket and long trousers and buries the items. Just before he exits the woods, he hides the gun.

    After the motorcyclist has gone and after the shooting has stopped, W.B.M. slowly ascends the combe to the scene. He searches Sylvain and moves Sylvain’s body.

  • michael norton

    “The elderly lady in the car is unlikely to be the mother-in-law. The 4-year old daughter Zeena has apparently identified all the occupants of the car, except the elderly lady, whom she did not know.”

    That was from the first week after the killings.

    A four year old girl who was travelling from her home in Claygate, towing the family caravan to the Alps, who had already stayed on one campsite and moved on to a second, nearby campsite, would know if this old woman was her grandmother.
    She might not get on with the old woman but she would know if this woman was her grandmother.
    Even if she had never seen this old woman before this holiday, she would have been told by her mother that, her mother’s, mother was coming to stay at Claygate and would be going with them on holiday and she would be told how to call this old woman.
    granma, grandma, grandmother, nana, nany, or whatever they use in Sweden or Iraq or Iran or Claygate.
    This four year old child would be excited that nana was coming on holiday with them.

    If this old woman was not her nana, this four year old child would know.

    So, if the four year old child said she did not know who this old woman was, she would be telling the truth.

    • michael norton

      I have always considered that the “mother” of Ikbal, was unlikely to be her actual mother, also unlikely to even be a stand-in-grandmother for the girls. Ikbal and her “mother” were most likely operatives. As the previous husband of Ikbal “died” at the same time but on a different hemisphere as the al-Hilli party were shot, they are most probably connected. If the “mother” of Ikbal was along for the ride, she was involved in the “exchange”, in fact, I suspect that the operatives were more likely to be The “mother” and Ikbal, rather than Mr. al-Hilli.
      Mr. al-Hilli may have had special technical knowledge but he is less likely to have been an actual operative.
      Sylvain was an “operative” 100% As was the ex-RAF W.B.M.
      One of the secrets of this clash, is who called Sylvain, to request he go for a cycle ride?

    • intp1

      From my notes at the time
      Suhaila Al-Allaf
      Suhyla (Ahmad) Al Saffar,

      Mother of Iqbal Al-Hilli Killed at the scene. b.1938, Resident of Tumba nr Stockholm Sweden. Said to have Iraqi passport and was carrying this and a Swedish passport at time of death. Studied for her Biology PhD in London? No photos of her at all. Zeena said she didnt know her but may not have met her? No Swedish investigation and little Swedish media comment’ Had worked as a English teacher in Sweden, had worked in 1990 outside Jerusalem as a head nurse for “The Four Homes of Mercy”? Apartment searched after event, presumably by SAPO.

      • intp1

        I also have:
        Yassar Al Saffar – Brother of Iqbal (Senior Exec at BOE) UK
        &
        Haydar Thaher Al Saffar. Son of Suhaila, Mental issues. said to have threatened the life of his parents. Early possible suspect but he was in a British hospital that day, a source close to the probe said.

        Alas, all my reference links to these data are dead.

  • michael norton

    The elder girl was recently re-interviewed by police.
    Perhaps she knows if the old woman was her real grandmother?

    If the old woman shot in the al-Hilli’s BMW was not the girls’ mother’s mother, then we have been spun another pork pie.
    If the old woman was not the girls’ grandmother, she must have travelled with the al-Hilli family for a non-family purpose?

  • michael norton

    Close examination of step by step, movement/communications of Sylvain Mollier and his bird, on that fateful day, would pay high dividends.
    Who contacted Sylvain to tell him to get on his bike and make his way up the combe.
    Where was Sylvain when he got that communication.
    To whom did he hand his baby.
    Who contacted Clare to tell her Sylvain needed to go “cycling”.
    Why did Clare contact the pigs to tell them she was worried .
    What did she actually say to the pigs.
    Who was monitering their communications.

    • michael norton

      I am fairly sure, Clare was endowed with some “intelligence”.
      She would know that Sylvain either, was for some time, active or that he had recently become reactivated.
      If “the event” had some foreknowledge, he would not have been in charge of his baby, at that time, therefore, this was an instant alert.
      That is most likely, why Clare rang the police to say she was scared,
      she knew Sylvain had been activated.

  • michael norton

    This article purports to show a photograph of the “mother” of Ikbal al-Hilli

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6843391/France-refuses-help-murder-victims-son-spelling-error.html
    Apparently The French
    do not believe the son of al Allaf is related to Ikbal

    “Despite accepting he is Mrs Al-Allaf’s son, and an expert translator commissioned by his lawyers confirming the anomaly is simply a quirk in the way Arabic is translated into English, the French authorities claim the inconsistency proves he is not related to his sister.”

    • intp1

      A possibility is that Suhaila is real but Iqbal is placed under her protection in order for Iqbal to acquire what is called a legend.
      Same as her early US husband, Thompson.
      In this scenario Iqbal was some kind of Iraqi at risk “Asset” extracted and given protection as well as a carefully crafted new identity.

      • michael norton

        intp1
        good assumption.

        I refuse to believe that French Authorities did not take DNA samples from all the corpses as well as the two girls, Claire Schutz, W.B.M., the Lyon motorcyclist, Eric Devouasoux and also the shell cases and the Cycle of Sylvain ( which had been moved) and lots of other people and lots of other stuff
        at or near to the crime scene.
        If the French Authorities had taken samples of al-Allaf and of Mrs. al-Hilli,
        they would conclusively know if Ikbal was the daughter of Suhaila?

        If they were not mother and daughter,
        as we have been told, we have been taken for fools.

        I strongly doubt they were mother and daughter, hence the youngest child saying, she did not know the old woman.

        • michael norton

          Years later, Mr al-Hilli said: “There hasn’t been any progress in the case. The initial investigation [by French investigators] has been a total failure. They made claims against the family which they couldn’t prove.”
          https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/murder-alps-who-zaid-al-24345148

          if the al-Hilli brothers had been quite close before their father died, it might be expected that Zaid attended his brother’s wedding?
          It might be expected that the mother of the bride, attend her daughter’s wedding?

          So, a question to Zaid al-Hilli, does he believe that al-Allaf
          is the actual mother of Mrs. al-Hilli
          or does he now think fish swim all around this family?
          How did Saad and Iqbal meet.
          Did Saad know she was married to Mr.Thompson in the U.S.A.?
          Was Saad complicit in the covering story of Iqbal|?
          Was their union arranged by the SIS?

        • intp1

          They did talk about DNA in early days, I remember they said they had recovered some unexplained DNA from the scene and were working on matching it. Then, months later they said, in a remarkable admission of incompetence (if you believe it) that this DNA matched one of the attending cops who they had forgotten to take samples of! So stand down, we don’t have anything after all. :-/
          I still find this to be very suspicious. Even though I accept that cops and especially French cops are very capable of gross incompetence, I find it hard to believe they would publicly admit to such a blunder.
          IMO any changes of narrative from the initial should always be regarded with suspicion. e.g. the changes that WBM made to his evidence, the initial reports that the weapon was a machine pistol, the foreign DNA that was after all, not.
          Such adjustments can be clues in an event where it seems everybody has a motive to obfuscate.
          When faced with a crisis like this, a plausible narrative may be created by clever officials in short order but then later it needs fine-tuning with certain aspects down-played or publicly de-bunked because certain details don’t align as more evidence comes to light. You will always have a tension between investigating cops in the same arena as the intelligence community which means investigational evidence has to be modified or buried. In this case I think there were several agencies in conflict because this horror happened on somebodies turf who should have been made aware leading to elements who must be strongly persuaded from above about need for super-discretion.
          Motorcycle helmet man, is riding down the hill in the vicinity of a mass murder but he is then exonerated without explanation. Years later a new investigation leader says wait a minute, bring this guy in for interrogation, followed by OOPs nothing to see here after all. Doesn’t that to-ing and fro-ing suggest that investigating detectives had to have some things explained to them, sometimes repeatedly?

  • intp1

    I found an additional scrap about the Father of Khadim:
    Ayatollah Husayn al Hilli, who was a high ranked Shia Sharia cleric, teacher of Ayatollah al Sistani.
    If that is Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali al-Husayni al-Sistani, he is a very important Shia cleric (A highest of 8 Twelver Shia authority – See Wikipedia)
    Al-Hilli is not mentioned in Al Sistani’s bio in Wikipedia, maybe he taught him at high school but it does suggest that the Al Hillis were at one time movers and shakers in Shia circles (who obviously were no allies of Saddam)

  • michael norton

    1) Why was W.B.M. who contaminated / interfered with the scene, given such a quick exit pass from the “Investigation”?
    2) Why was motorcycle helmet man, allowed to remain hidden ( for so long), why was he at least twice, brought in
    but each time so very quickly given exit passes?
    3) Why is there almost no back-story of Sylvain?
    4) Why is it hidden that al-Allaf was not actually the grandmother of the al-Hilli girls?
    5) Why has no progress been made in a decade?

  • intp1

    Another possibility (Stab in the dark Alert!) :
    Suhaila is the real Mother of Iqbal but is part of extraction and placement of a group of related assets.
    Placed initially far apart and forbidden overt contact, over time Iqbal is not content in the deep south and by some means, (Muslim Secret Marriage agency :)) hooks up with Saad. Then, after Grandchildren arrive, Grandmother’s needs overcome discretion and they arrange to meet (probably the first time for the kids).
    Somehow, this is noticed which is not surprising because Saad is not generally discrete, they may have been watched or there is some noticeable fuss over the Swiss account and in addition they are now unusually out in the open in a caravan in France.
    Some kind of ruse gets Saad to go up that hill to meet somebody and revenge is exacted by the aggrieved party.
    Perhaps SM and WBM were both NATO part time muscular assets and get a call to monitor this meeting which has some perceived potential risk. The Al-Hillis may have requested some protection and WBM knows SM at least ostensively from the cycle club and made the call?
    SM arrives at the meet, senses a problem and steps in but out-gunned, gets obliterated. WBM gets there but too late.

    This still does not explain why Jim Thompson was an unacceptable loose end.
    Maybe he was so fond of Iqbal that he was going to make a fuss? Somehow the American could embarrass his employers. I dont believe anybody else would have the cajonnes or the organization to take out a US citizen on US soil. Well maybe one state might be so brazen but what could be their motive?
    Im not certain but I don’t think Thompson would have had time to have heard through the press on the same day but could he have been informed of the incident? and genuinely have a cardiac event as a result of that shock?

    Maybe some of this could be part of it.

    • michael norton

      I wonder if somebody knows how to get hold of the certificates for Iqbal?
      I wonder where she was born and what was her birth name?
      I wonder how many times she has been married?
      I wonder how many times she has been divorced?
      I wonder how many different names she has used?
      I wonder how many different passports she has had?

      I wonder that al-Allaf is not her mother?

      • michael norton

        The governments of Sweden have been “influenced” by the Deep State of America, for decades.
        So far, Sweden is social democracy, more in tune with the Clintons/Obamas/Bidens and much less in tune with the world of Trump. Recently the current government of Sweden has moved to formally join the NATO alliance.
        No Referendum has been called. Suhaila al-Allaf is said to have been Swedish, yet the government of Sweden could not have been less interested in her?
        Yet the courts/government of Sweden were very interested in Julian Assange, who is not Swedish but Australian. The government of Australia have shown little interest in Julian Assange. It would seem likely that the government of Sweden is keen to do what ever the Americans ask them to do?
        Perhaps al-Allaf did work for the Americans?
        I wonder if Mr. Thonpson was of Swedish origin?

  • intp1

    Some miscellaneous information from back then:

    • Per https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9544647/Girl-in-Alps-attack-only-saw-one-gunman.html – French police confirmed they are looking for a dark coloured Mitsubishi Pajero 4×4 vehicle with a tinted rear window.
      A witness told police that a swarthy-skinned, “nervous” looking driver was speeding down the A39 motorway towards Lyon shortly after the crime. and potentially linked: A Frederic Brun fatally crashed down a hillside in a Mitsubishi Pajero FM 216 BW 4×4 near Chevaline on 29/9/12.
    • BMW 5 Series 530D SE Touring Break Reg-OE04 WJZ !st Registered 2004 Red 2993cc was reportedly fitted with DSC (BMW dynamic stability control) which arguably should not have allowed the wheels to spin as described by WBM.
    • AMS1087 was a company that SAH set up in 2007 (Ariel photography) Based at the Delta office park in Wiltshire which is built on part of the old ‘Turnstile’ nuclear Command and Control bunker and is still owned by the MoD.
    • Surrey Satellite Technology SAH’s day job , now owned by Astrium, an EADS company. manufactures and operates high performance satellites and ground systems. NovaSAR synthetic aperture radar satellite. Surrey Satellite Technology, 
    • Elekta, A Swedish (medical) laser company for which SAH appears to have worked with.
    • Geneva UN Conference on “crimes of the former Iraqi regime” Held on Sept 19 2012 in Palais des Nations (European headquarters of the United Nations) in Geneva Note that Swiss Police intervened to end the conference after chaos erupted.
  • michael norton

    Apparently Iqbal met Sadd in Duabi
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/murdered-al-hilli-mother-secret-ex-husband-3829895
    “Iqbal Al-Hilli was married to former cop and oil worker Mr Thompson from February 1999 to December 2000.

    She met former stay-at-home bachelor Saad in Dubai where she worked as a dental nurse and they married in a Surrey register office following a whirlwind romance in 2003.

    Theories for the Alps killings have so far centred on Iraqi-born engineer Saad, but police are now looking at whether Iqbal was the intended target.”

    I would say the most shady characters in this mystery are Iqbal and her “mother”

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