The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Ferret…
But then a nice cremation of Molly would have been good.
So why “bury” him (albeit “temporarily”, whatever that means !)
@Bluebird
Ah OK, thanks for that.
And thanks for the reminder of the large number of mentions of the word “Hollywood” by supposed witnesses, and by the “anniversaire” notice of Fred Brun.
By the way, I have discovered that the “anniversaire” column in Le Carnet (under which Fred Brun’s notice appeared) is not in fact for birthdays — as I first thought — but for anniversaries of deaths. So again, perhaps still the wrong column, but not as wrong as at first sight.
An earlier incarnation of the hairdresser at the corner of Ave du Serbie / Rue Chatemerle was
Ruffier Colette
Catégorie : Salons de coiffure 31 rue Chantemerle 73400 Ugine Tel. 04 79 37 35 89
She traded as Design Coiffure there, perhaps as late as 2007
http://www.bilansgratuits.fr/RUFFIER-COLETTE–33009097800025/annonces-legales.htm
Felix.
Is rue chantemerle the same shop as coiffeur lydia’s?
That would dxplain that lydia ringot has a pretty new business.
We should find out about when salon lydia was incorporated.
I answered my question felix.
Same address
http://www.societe.com/societe/ruffier-colette-330090978.html
Felix
And here we have lydia
http://www.societe.com/societe/ringot-lydia-n-e-sclosa-391461712.html
@Bluebird
M Ruffier is now in Albertville, though a date 2005 is given on one document. The entrance faces Ave du Serbie, but the block is no 31 on the side street, Chantemerle.
http://www.societe.com/societe/gemini-tif-483412672.html
Her current business is called Gemini’tif
at 1300 Chemin de la Cassine, Albertville.
So, looks like the business did change hands in 2005…
Next to you…but you can’t see him !
I keep thinking, they don’t shoot nuke smugglers…
AND if you want to get your hands on someones money that’s in a Swiss Bank, well it’s better if the money isn’t in the Swiss Bank when you shoot them.
So why kill Al Hilli ?
Israel knows that peace in the Middle East will be a disaster for them.
The best way to ensure that it never happens is to have a “limited” war.
But you can’t have a war, without a reason (Gulf Of Tolkin, WMD’s etc).
The reason could of course be “Uranium Ennrichment” by Iran.
To do that the IAEA would have to provide verification.
And lets not forget, they were nearby when Al Hilli was killed.
Brun was “the watcher”. He was feeding information back on the activities of Mollier and Al Hilli.
Forget religion or politics, this is just for money.
Al Hilli and Mollier were to provide verification to the IAEA with regard to “Iran’s enrichment program” (only there isn’t one).
No one wants a war in the Middle East. No one could afford one !
Al Hilli and Mollier are removed and Brun leaves the scene.
Possibly with the “gunmen/gunman).
But Brun isn’t a “professional” and so later the plan is to remove him also.
Just my two Dirhams worth.
MEanwhile the Isreali’s get a stern word in their ear…and life moves on !
All the stars aren’t in Hollywood ! There are “James Bonds” in Ugine.
Actually, Brun was “the gardener” (the circumstance to which he owed his nickname). I suppose that makes him the murderer.
@James
9 Nov, 2012 – 9:26 am
Don’t call SM Molly .. that’s going to cause even more confusion ..
Omar Molly from Geneve is somebody entirely different!
This is louis:-
https://twitter.com/i/#!/leo_mollier/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FtKjwX6jB
Re my previous post….a quote from someone I suspect knows a great deal more than alot of us.
“Espionage is an ugly business. I cannot blame Mr Saad Al Hilli for supplying valid information on certain nuclear fusion techniques to Iran according to my source.
I know of two more Iranians here in Britain on political asylum who are supplying British GPS satellite technology to Iran”
Mark Golding. Children of Iraq Association.
9th of September (1.28pm)
Al Hilli, Mollier, Mme Chalabi and handful of “foreign” students/runners.
Makes a “plausable” network for those with an itchy trigger fingers ?
@Mochyn69
I won’t call him “Molly” anymore.
I could call him “the bowman” ? Or I could call him “the Indian” ??
After all, “there are no more Indians anymore” ???
To finish the investigation of the Mollier family
Lydia Ringot-Sclosa lives (together with Francois Ringot) in
73400 Cohennoz, Le Praz.
That is about half an hour by car from Ugine center high up into the forest and the mountains. A place not easily accessable for kids without having their own car.
Salon Lydia is in 31 Rue Chantemerle
However, the entrance to Salon Lydia (I checked google street view) is directly from a huge car parking area in avenue de Serbie. There is a SPAR market on the left side of the parking area and there is salon Lydie on the the right side of that parking area.
Well, finally, this probably is the strangest guy listed on the facebook friends list of young Mathis Mollier:
http://www.facebook.com/mathis.mollier/friends#!/knitritahnante.errochdi
To be honest I am still stuck on who Al-Hilli was working for?
Have we got confirmation that he did return to Iraq in his early years to help with the Iraq Nuke program? if so he would have certainly been recruited by Mossad or Iran.
If he did actually go to Qom for Hajj in Nov 2010, this is the exact date of the below happened
November 2010: – Two car bomb blasts killed an Iranian nuclear scientist and wounded another in Tehran on November 29 in what Iranian officials called an Israeli or U.S.-sponsored attack on its atomic program.
– Majid Shahriyari was killed and his wife was injured. Iran’s atomic energy agency chief Ali Akbar Salehi said Shahriyari had a role in one of its biggest nuclear projects, but did not elaborate, the official news agency IRNA reported. He was a lecturer at Shahid Beheshti University.
– In the other blast Fereydoun Abbasi-Davani and his wife were both wounded. Abbasi-Davani, head of physics at Imam Hossein University, has been personally subject to U.N. sanctions because of what Western officials said was his involvement in suspected nuclear weapons research.
In past assasinations by the Mossad a lot of thought goes into the murder weapon, a firearm is used to confuse the authorites into thinking the murder was done by locals or a lone madman…………in the murder of Gerald Bull a low caliber 7.65 weapon was used so not to make a mess and cause maximum damage.
straw, there is a newer picture of louis on leo’s twitter page where louis is sitting upright and without any protection and help on Leo’s knees. He looks much older in the “sitting photo” than in that obviously older photo that you had posted here.
I don’t know who posted the link to PDF of Le Dauphine Libere for 15th May 2012, whether it was here or on MZT, but the article of interest is about an earlier mystery shooting in Haute Savoie.
The article on page 27 states that just before 4:00pm the previous day in Armay in Haute Savoie a 70 year old man was shot whilst in his garden. Nobody in the area heard shots, a neighbout just saw the gendarmes passing by. Investigators from the gendarmerie refused to comment. The circumstances remained unexplained and the motive totally unknown.
One thing I’ve found odd about the discussion here on locks being changed, which may or may not be true, but why has no one considered [ or noticed] the doors were being changed ?
At the back of the house leaning against the house wall you can clearly see 2 patio doors/French windows…..was our man simply putting in double glazing ?
Ferret I see is still in la la land,you should watch fewer thrillers Ferret…get over it, people ‘were’ killed, thinking that so many…like a couple of hundred … could all stay schtum is stuff of fantasy.
POST :: CM :: @ Ferret 8 Nov, 2012 – 10:44 pm
“not all stars are in Hollywood”
Star of David – 6 points
Christian Star – 5 points
Pentagram – 5 points
Christmas Star over Bethlehem – a super-nova?
Stars are in heaven – which, we hope, is where the deceased was headed. Maybe that’s all it means.
@Katie
I think SAH had mentioned that he thought he had been broken into a number of times, this was probably paranoia setting in or someone causing him to be paranoid, again this has parallels to the Gerald Bull case as he was also convinced he had been broken into a number fo times before his assasination!
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/151956979-british-police-personnel-use-an-optical-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QW%2bkeepDwK2MGKIyv8eCMM6XO3fUhhys5QQzY9w9a4CoFMbnLnumhYrcxU9zZRC1uw%3d%3d
Any ideas what is going on here?
If as Felix’s detective work finding the house opposite being let. We can probably assume that SAH’s house was fully bugged with hidden cameras. If the bomb squad when they arrived actually thought there was a bomb the police remained unprotected whilst standing in front of and behind the house. A perspex sheet was put outside the front door, why? A blue and white tent was put outside the front porch area, this is normally used for murder scenes, I believe. There are photos on the same website (search Claygate) including the evidence bags ‘shown’ to press photographers.
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/151770991-british-police-officer-carries-a-box-from-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QekptGi%2fbSfhsgsgDCyywd0OZEDBtW5su03r87fOyYmAXG%2bBWhTKU0GWXN5GzBlAxQ%3d%3d
Other photos of the side windows being covered not from an explosion but from neighbours peering in.
[http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gp/151498296.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=3&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QQB52xLoN9FBGHqNFKHNNVMIYr5LZNxoT4GXXuOuNiRk]
This whole scene was a charade with the main aim to remove all of the secret cameras that placed in the house.
Did somebody leave something behind?
[http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gp/151629777.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=3&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QZdGoaNH691bISh6p4yoWsEVRePn%2be%2bZNowtfxIIArzt]
I am assuming this is a taser, I may be wrong.
ferret,
regarding your question about the bow&arrow sports guy. As I had alraedy expected, he must be 14-16 years old. I only found a pdf with a result of an American archery club. He seems to be American, as his name would surely confirm us: Dylan Schneider.
I don’t believe that this is any significant find. Probably he visited – together with his American parents – Ugine, and there they asked to do some Archery with Mathis’ late father and so Mathis learnt to know Dylan. I don’t have any other explanation for finding him on Mathis’ facebook friends list. However, what I found while searching is the matter of fact that there is a certain kind of archery competition in the nature (forests) where the competatants are being called “Scouts/Indians”.
http://www.wfaa-archery.com/Tournaments/Results/2008/25meterresults.pdf
And that Scouts&Indians thing made me search for Frederic Brun + archery. I couldn’t confirm yet whether we are talking about the same Frederic Brun. But it is a beginning.
“C’est un grand honneur, confie le président Arturo Hernandez pour notre club qui a été créé en 1992 par Frédéric Brun, le vice président actuel”
http://www.sudouest.fr/2010/05/21/tir-a-l-arc-championnats-de-france-parcours-nature-a-blanquefort-33-97393-2774.php
Now, it’s up to you, guys, to find anything. I need a short rest in my nest.
Frédérick Brun is the vice president of an archery club? No wonder then that he talks about arrows.
What was this about Brun being a gardener, which Peter talked about. Care to elaborate, Peter?
———–
The Edge
Latest layout of the transcribed interview and
family link between Hashim and Saad awaiting
confirmation plus maps showing possible access/
escape routes used by the killer(s).
Deciphered orbituary note concerning Fréderick
Brun’s death on the 29th of September 2012,
although we don’t know whether he actually
was in that Pajero, or whether that Pajero was
the one reported to have been near the crime scene.
@ Kenneth
Given that you guys have already given him a job, an address and a religion that he didn’t have, why not go the whole hog and make Frédéric Brun the vice-president of an archery club in a different part of France? Same name -> same person, right?
http://indiansarc.esbomnisports.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/signature-tir-arc-fred-copie.jpg
kenneth: I said that this was not confirmed yet whether or not we are talking about a different Brun.
peter: That newspaper was from 2008. We do not know whether or not Brun was moving to Ugine and when, and we don’t know where he grew up. Also, there were always discussions about his real age simply because that photo in ledauphine looks like he was a pretty old guy in his 50tees.
So i would not be as optimistic as kennth and I wouldn’t be as pedantic as you are. If we would exclude and include all possibilities from the very first minute, and if we would have based the disinformation and fake that we received from the media as “Given facts”, then we wouldn’t be one step further today than we were on Sept 6th.
The really good search & investigation is done in the following way:
1) Brainstorming
2) Collecting all possibilities based on the few things we know (that#s what we have done with Brun and archery here)
3) Binary sarch regarding all those possibilities. Not excluding any of those when we won’t find anything but getting from the other end towards a straight direction.
4) When there is any proof that it can’t have happened what should have happened, then we delete that possibility, but only then. You would miss a lot of very good results if you did research like you do in that you take “media fake” as given facts and everything that doesn’t fit within your “media facts” should be deleted asap. If we did that, we would have to say that Mathis and Leo Mollier are diffeent children because they have a completely different age than the media had told us.
I prefer binary investigation. Making a picture both from the left and from the right side and trying to find a way to the truth from every side by fail&retry. Pedantic behaviour doesn’t support binary research. And yes, I well knew that the archery Frederic Brun vice president “Indian Scout Archery” was a senior participant and I know that his club in 2008 was 7 hours by car from Ugine. That doesn’t make us to cry “BINGO” but to challenge more research. Meanwhile I found 5 members of the Brun family participating in “Indian Archery” in France.
Does anybody still have the Mollier link to Archery? I could find one, but that site was dead.
@ Mochyn69
9 Nov, 2012 – 11:30 am
There have been several unsolved shootings in the region: http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2012/05/25/le-tueur-s-est-servi-d-une-arme-de-chasse
OK, we will wait for Bluebirds razoe sharp skills, and hear what he has to say about it. But what about ‘our’ (See my avatar) Fredéric Brun. From where do you know he was a gardener. He was perhaps slow at his work and so earned this nickname, which of course also sounds almost like ‘Brun’.
———–
The Edge
Latest layout of the transcribed interview and
family link between Hashim and Saad awaiting
confirmation plus maps showing possible access/
escape routes used by the killer(s).
Deciphered orbituary note concerning Fréderick
Brun’s death on the 29th of September 2012,
although we don’t know whether he actually
was in that Pajero, or whether that Pajero was
the one reported to have been near the crime scene.
@ Kenneth
I know that because I am “pedantic” enough not to constantly confuse my Frédérics with my Frédériques or to assume that an “F.” listed in the telephone directory must be a Frédéric. Moreover, I prefer to check my facts – but, in the context of this forum, what’s the point of fact-checking?
The archery man in the photo that I have linked is *the* FB, heavily disguised with a wig and a false beard.