The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
i’VE NEVER COME ACROSS “TEMPORARY BURIAL” BEFORE HAVE YOU James
9 Nov, 2012 – 9:26 am?
Here you are Shelock:
“One friend said of Saad al-Hilli: “He always had a strong interest in politics, then began to talk of what he could do, saying he wanted to go back to Iraq. He went to London a few times for meetings about it but then it seemed to fizzle out.”
After the downfall of Saddam, Hilli travelled to Baghdad in an attempt to get back his father’s engineering business.
“He took a bulletproof jacket,” said a neighbour who wished to remain anonymous.
“But he joked that if they came for him it would be a knock on the door and then a bullet through the forehead.”
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/346086/Do-police-already-know-killer-in-alps-family-massacre-
@Tim V
9 Nov, 2012 – 2:39 pm
Good points, but the word for star in the announcement is ‘vedettes’ not ‘etoiles’!
vedettes = film stars, or security guards at firing ranges!!!!
Hidden meaning, you see. In plain sight.
@Shelock
Looking left and right, is looking in both directions, rather than just looking in one direction. Taking what is “kind of” known..and what is logical.
I am trying to link Al Hilli, with Mollier and with Brun.
Not as smugglers of “nuke” material, but of “potential info”.
And rather than to Iran, but rather but what it would look like if that was the case.
In 2007 AREVA was looked at by the German authorities for supplying Iran with nuke materials.
What now (if they weren’t) but it looked like it was ?
No one would want a war of that scale.
Maybe that’s the reason for these murders ? I don’t know.
Looking in the other direction, say it was Mollier that had over stepped the mark in his personal life.
Married, two children…but takes up with Claire.
The final straw could be the third child.
It has been said that this was a “new” route for this “up hill racer”.
A route up….but then hairpins and “walks”. That’s not what you would call an “up hill racers” type of route.
Hence, did the race club kick him out due to the fact he had taken up with Claire ?
Was this actually a crime of passion ?
Trying to look both ways. (I’ll find the quote re him being kicked out of his cycling club).
@Tim V
Re Temp Burial. Yes, that is what was reported in the French press.
Check it out. Others here will confirm.
They wanted him cremated, but this was refused and he was granted a “temp burial”.
Whatever that means…it is damn odd.
Find the report on his “private burial”.
It’s all there.
Lars over at MZT just posted this:
The newspapers have fallen asleep, so have probably also the gendarmerie and Eric Maillaud.
A link to the girlfriend’s brother that I don’t think have been posted: http://fr.viadeo.com/fr/profile/laurent.schutz2
BB?
By the way, have we lost all interest in Cathy and her interesting connections??
@James
9 Nov, 2012 – 3:06 pm
Now, that’s a very good question.
One that I asked many moons ago on here it seems. CS is a hot looking chick and no doubt has her fair share of admirers, not to mention ex bfs.
Somebody posted somewhere very eloquently about the violent passions losing in love can arouse in a disappointed lover, especially if a child comes along.
A crime passionnel? Certainly that’s not something I would rule out.
Ricki Tarr 9 Nov, 2012 – 11:26 am REF. AL HILLI – If the issuing of a “D Notice” stipulating that no ref. was to made to SAH being an agent of the British Government, it virtually confirms it.
Mention has been made of him being under surveillance in 2003 but this could equally be a ruse to suggest he was a threat rather than an asset. Similarly the stories about him being followed and watched. These could equally well be supporters and protectors couldn’t it? If the neighbours spotted them don’t you think with all that political baggage and expertise, SAH would have too?
Then again do you think he would have got his British citizenship and passport just months before a major war, which had been agreed upon for over a year, if he had been considered a serious threat? So my view is he WAS working for British intelligence. (Of course this does not prevent him from working for someone else)
Could the very public anti Israeli and American views be merely a smokescreen and method of persuading certain parties that he was? This would certainly be a requirement for setting up any pro-Iranian meeting wouldn’t it?
In these circumstances what might his trip to Annece been for? It would have to have the cover of a family holiday. Was it to obtain information on a channel through which sensitive (nuclear and/or satellite info.) was passing from France to Iran the bait being that SAH would be able to provide more? Could it be that Israel/American/French got the wrong end of the stick not realising it was a British engineered set up to gain insight, and blundered in? Or indeed that similar agencies just decided to take no chances and have done with the lot of them?
Britain may be hopping mad but unable to object publicly without revealing the secret plan or endangering other asset.
SHOULD READ – “Ricki Tarr 9 Nov, 2012 – 11:26 am REF. AL HILLI – If the issuing of a “D Notice” stipulating that no ref. was to made to SAH being an agent of the British Government IS TRUE, it virtually confirms it.
Tim V,
A ‘Temporary burial’ when authorities seem intent to confuse and also to say the families wishes of a cremation were denied.
Leo’s ‘Life Goes On’ tweet seems to support extraction and giving the finger to authorities.
@Mochyn69
You have to look both ways.
Major political conspiracy….or plain old “passion”.
On the passion front, what is a racer doing up that road ?
It’s not a racers road.
I live in a place where cycle teams from Europe train. I see them virtually everyday. Every nationality. They don’t ride up tracks that go nowhere. They “race” on the road. On a route.
Claire’s father may have wanted “more” for her ?
She has the family business and is trained as a pharmacist.
If Mollier was a “welder” ? A man that never left the village ? A man with a family already ? Maybe “getting rid” of him wasn’t a bad idea !
It is just a thought. Looking both ways, so to speak.
@Tim V
9 Nov, 2012 – 3:32 pm
I wouldn’t rule that out either.
Imagine if you’re right about SAH being a UK asset, and CIA or Mossad off him and his family. Effectively, they’ve offed the UK’s intelligence crown jewels. An EPIC FAIL.
And as I’ve said before, no wonder BM panicked, and the embassy folks came running!
@NR: Also OT, there were a couple of fires yesterday in Mtl. and environs.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Explosion+Bombardier+plant+Valcourt+badly+burned/7524282/story.html
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/montreal/Major+fire+Montreal+causes+chaos/7520831/story.html
@ Kathie: Thanx for the link. I hadn’t seen this one
But it doesn’t clearly show, if he put this vest on in UK or in Iraq or may be while on his pilgrim tour?
@ James 15:06
Thanx to you as well! Please let me have the source about this kicking out of the CC!
As to your looking at both sides:
Once again the szenario IF Mr. William Brett(Martin) was the intended target? If Mr. Mollier being misstaken? We don’t know what both were wearing that very day, do we?
I don’t take that Mr. Brett didn’t recognize Mr.Mollier – he never mentioned on his own that they both belonged to the same club (and so they might both wearing the same club tricot???) So how could Mr. Brett have been involved to be murdered first?? IF so- this would explain why he was so shocked when Mr. Didierjean met him…. given his education he should take it with some kind of “coolness”.
Are there any news about him from the UK-section here? Or did he just vanish from the scene?
@ Tim V:
I also wondered what is this about the temp. burrying?
I don’t have a clue for that. If it is for having the body for further possible researches- why not the Al Hilli family as well? As far as I know they had been embalmed. Would any further research be possible if being embalmed?
Any ideas?
At Strawberry 11.57
tried this but google message “access denied”
any reason?
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/151956979-british-police-personnel-use-an-optical-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QW%2bkeepDwK2MGKIyv8eCMM6XO3fUhhys5QQzY9w9a4CoFMbnLnumhYrcxU9zZRC1uw%3d%3d
@Straw
Then wouldn’t a cremation have been better ?
No body at all (I should pun and say “nobody” !)
As for that tweet ! It is truly amazing.
You could say it is a middle finger up to the powers that be OR
that there was little love lost between father and son ?
Straw44berry
9 Nov, 2012 – 11:57 am following on from my theory, the thorough search and army bomb squad could of course be very public window dressing to suggest to watching world that SAH was a potential THREAT. This could be just part of an attempt to deflect attention away from his true role?
Tim V
I dont know why you get access denied and I get to see this single photo.
Try this and type Claygate into the search:-
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-GB&family=editorial&assetType=image&ebd=2012-08-23&mt=photography&p=FRANCE-BRITAIN-CRIME-SHOOTING
@NR: JS was chief engineer of the Canada-France-Hawaii telescope.
http://science.landoffree.com/author/Jerry_Sovka
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/40680395?uid=3739392&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21101353496081
One of the most interesting links by far that has been posted recently, are bound to be this.
For the first time we have utterings — and looks — of the oldest son of Sylvain Moillier, that’s the closest we have been to SM.From the 4th to the 13th of september their are no tweets, as you’d expect when you know what happened to his father.
Here is a proposal for Felix: What about posting a screenshot on Icke of Leo [with Louis]* next to an image of his Mom (Do we have this at hand?) and the Cap man from the Archery club [Which the Daily Mirror published and retracted because they could not prove it was him. But it STILL could be him, let’s remember that].
—
*) link given by Leo himself on the 6th of November. Here is an image of his two little brothers from 4the of November.
———–
The Edge
Latest layout of the transcribed interview and
family link between Hashim and Saad awaiting
confirmation plus maps showing possible access/
escape routes used by the killer(s).
Deciphered orbituary note concerning Fréderick
Brun’s death on the 29th of September 2012,
although we don’t know whether he actually
was in that Pajero, or whether that Pajero was
the one reported to have been near the crime scene.
Shelock…
Glad you are part of this forum. Firstly.
And secondly, that very thing has crossed my mind before.
Say it was Martin that should have been there, but was indeed overtaken ?
Looking at Martin’s Co (and number 55 !) it could have been, then that then goes to a political conspiracy (why did he have to wear a bulletproof vest on his return to the scene, with police ???).
Or say Mollier and Martin are together on the way up ?
Mollier is a fit dude…and there are a hell of a lot of “reserve” regiments around those parts.
A man of action ? A man doing his bit for his country ?
Going back to Martin, he says “looked like she was playing with her sibling”. What does that look like ???
And that Mollier (the cyclist “ahead” of him) looked to be “taking a rest” after the climb !
Did he think that normal ? A cyclist to place himself on the floor after a ride up a hill ????
All scenarios are “odd”. There is no information being released.
That tells a tale in itself.
A village covering up ? Or a political conspiracy ?
Polaris and 2012: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris_(star)
Peter
9 Nov, 2012 – 12:46 pm – just one at a time, at home, with hunting rifle tho peter. different “modus” it would seem tho. a person with the inclination and ability to kill still in the area tho it wud seem
@Straw44berry
9 Nov, 2012 – 3:48 pm
I get the full AFP gallery of 3 pages of photos.
Interesting, is it not, that world famous French AFP photographer Philippe Desmazes appears to be there on the scene shooting away on 6th September already!
Does “Annecy” sound a hell of alot like “Hickville” !!!
@NR: Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpions_(Iraq)
@James
9 Nov, 2012 – 4:02 pm
No, Twin Peaks!
“That’s a damn fine piece of cherry pie ..”
Leo says he is 15, but looks 12
(need French translation checking)
http://ask.fm/leomollier808
So, who is running Mathis’ FB page?
Kenneth Sorensen
9 Nov, 2012 – 1:05 pm I am no expert but I can’t see how it could possible be a Luger. A pile of cartridges were apparently found on the ground at the rear off-side (driver’s side) of the car that must have come from those window shots on the same side. In other words they are ALL to the left of the shooter. Lugers ejuct UP AND TO THE RIGHT. if a Luger had been used they would have undoubtedly been found in the front right quartile of the car. If I can see this as a gun novice, I’m dam sure the fire arms experts have. Sorry to keep repeating but it seems to get the logic this basic information accepted.
@Mochyn
Or… Royston Vasey !
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=YOtpgz4L5d8&feature=fvwp )