The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@NR
9 Nov, 2012 – 11:43 am
Just one problem .. the stars in heaven are called ‘etoiles’ in French, whereas ‘vedettes’ are film stars!
Seems to be a dangerous zone there in that area.
http://www.letemps.ch/Facet/print/Uuid/c6c4e834-bcad-11e1-94e6-c43e25c2bf42/Meurtres_dans_les_jardins_du_Chablais
People are shot dead, people disappear, people are living with false identities and none of those families is ever talking. What an area!
With regards to “unsolved shootings”, it simply couldn’t be a lone nutter who fires 25 (twentyfive) shots all in a matter of 30 seconds (as reported by witnesses), and then think about the re-loading with new cartridges. No it is much more likely that it was a trained shooter, who had practised on a shooting range in the Negev, and his gun fitted with a Luger barrel an a 25 shot cartridge, all custom made by a state backed agency.
———–
The Edge
Latest layout of the transcribed interview and
family link between Hashim and Saad awaiting
confirmation plus maps showing possible access/
escape routes used by the killer(s).
Deciphered orbituary note concerning Fréderick
Brun’s death on the 29th of September 2012,
although we don’t know whether he actually
was in that Pajero, or whether that Pajero was
the one reported to have been near the crime scene.
peter,
please learn to read before you submit BS about other posters and before you suggest them having said something what they never had said. You’re the typical German Kraut who believes to know everything better than all the others and who shows up here like the pedantic primary teacher of a primary school. That is no school, please understand that. Go back into your “Biedermayer” German home and drink your beer and relax a little bit. You’re by far no better nor anything better at all than all the other posters here. You just believe that you are better, and that shows us some mediocre character.
Ricki.
I have no doubt we’d all get a bit paranoid if we knew we had something someone wanted, especially if we’d had some sort of tip off … whatever it was or whoever it was, frightened him.
Putting in double glazing does increase security so I see that as the reason he was doing it, however had he not got all windows & doors changed by this time , locks were changed on those still single glazed ?
I feel this was more to protect him than those papers,the guy had a substantial safe from which they would be difficult to retrieve…as the police found out !
Straw.
Don’t forget that those doors were finger printed so putting up a tent could well be to protect any possible evidence. If, cameras were inside the house wouldn’t that be normal [?] if AH were an agent …… maybe ?
Actually Mochyn, if someone French used the word Vedettes , I’d immediately think of it as a boat, it’s in common usage around my local harbour to get to the opposite coastline.
Have checked & interestingly:
“The French military term vedette (formed from Latin videre, to see), also spelled vidette, migrated into English and other languages to refer to a mounted sentry or outpost, who has the function of bringing information, giving signals or warnings of danger, etc., to a main body of troops. In modern terms, the soldiers who man listening-posts are the equivalent of vedettes.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedette
@Peter
9 Nov, 2012 – 12:46 pm
Thanks for that.
Good grief, poor old Eric Maillaud!
How many unsolved fatal shootings on his watch??
4 shootings in the area in 17 years, of which 3 were in the last three years .. then Chevaline.
No wonder he’d given up before he started.
Pink
9 Nov, 2012 – 6:13 am – interesting red on/off photo but I’m not sure it proves much. It all depends what’s triggering the colour change. For example the obvious tyre tracks come up red but this can’t be blood can it? It seems it’s anything consisting of hydro carbon (rubber, diesel or petroleum products, gunpowder even?)
and here the latest murder in the (greater) neighbourhood of Chevaline:
http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-provence/2012/11/08/un-homme-tue-par-arme-a-feu-a-forcalquier
@ BB:
If you allow me to point out that you’re as well sometimes behave as some kind of chief-indian on that site.
Not all have the time to sit 24h per day on their pc’s to stay tuned.
But all have the same rights to give their statement- even some others might not agree.
It’s a kind of big online-think-tank- we’re doing here, and I’d like it, if the tenor would be less aggressive, if something isn’t the way one wanted it to have to.
Think, ev’body is giving his/her best in finding out news etc. – giving to his abillities.
They might be not eaqual – but nevertheless to respect.
So stop to shout at each other- for whatever reason.
BTW: I doubt, Mathis Mollier will give a false photo of his baby-brother. I’m at the same time very surprised that it looks like some kind of a big family- often the two parties don’t like and accept each others. Not here- given the fact they all live very close to each other…
As for the pix of M. Frederic Brun: why should they post a false pix of him- in the local newspaper? I quite well see him at age 35. Photos often quite different apart reality.
I mean, there’s a lot of false stuff about the story. But not everything might be doubtful what we find out.
So let’s go ahead in a peaceful and respectable atmosphere.
(huhhh- hope I got the wrong words 😉
Even then when the bow&arrow Frederic Brun from Southwestern France isn’t our Frederic Brun, he is an interesting guy when watching his facebook page:
Strong supporter of FRench rightwing Le Pen and the “La France en Resistance” Group.
http://www.facebook.com/brun.fred#!/brun.fred
And he has a relative (wife?, daughter?, cousin?) Roxanne Brun, who makes a military career, former studies at ESTIA and now an ingenieur at Aerofunctions.
We have Christian Brun as an archer, Yves Brun, Mickael Brun, …. ok. There are too many Bruns in France. But then, we have that bow&error Indians death sentence ….. I am just thinking logic.
The club of Frederic Brun (ok, it certainly isn’t the one on our picture) is called
http://www.indiansarc.fr/
By just thinking logic, therefore I strongly believe that the “Indians” and the “arrows” mentioning in that death advert regards to such a “bow & arrow” club.
++++++
Somebody knows the link to that not confirmed Sylvain Mollier bow & arrow (archery) www find? I think that this came up in the early days of this blog. I found one link, but it was dead.
One of the most interesting links by far that has been posted recently, are bound to be this.
For the first time we have utterings — and looks — of the oldest son of Sylvain Moillier, that’s the closest we have been to SM.From the 4th to the 13th of september their are no tweets, as you’d expect when you know what happened to his father.
Here is a proposal for Ferret: What about posting a screenshot on Icke of Leo [with Louis]* next to an image of his Mom (Do we have this at hand?) and the Cap man from the Archery club [Which the Daily Mirror published and retracted because they could not prove it was him. But it STILL could be him, let’s remember that].
—
*) link given by Leo himself on the 6th of November. Here is an image of his two little brothers from 4the of November.
———–
The Edge
Latest layout of the transcribed interview and
family link between Hashim and Saad awaiting
confirmation plus maps showing possible access/
escape routes used by the killer(s).
Deciphered orbituary note concerning Fréderick
Brun’s death on the 29th of September 2012,
although we don’t know whether he actually
was in that Pajero, or whether that Pajero was
the one reported to have been near the crime scene.
.. sorry typo: RIGHT words is correct 😉
well said, shelock
That exactly is what I wanted to tell here: Getting personal doesn’t bring us any further. Unfortunately peter is always getting personal when he posts. Instead of posting his finds without a personal comment he insists to tell about “how extremely stupid and mad the rest of us might be”, and he is sarcastic and pedantic, and he is telling something “what other posters might have apprently said” – but what is a lie and they had never said. Such behaviour will force other posters to disappear. That’s why I am responding to him, otherwise I could care less.
shelock,
That photo you had posted was not a false photo but an older photo. Check the photo on leo’s twitter blog (somebody posted a link yesterday, thank you for that!). There Louis looks to be several months older than on the photo that you posted today.
As about the truth. I have given up to trust the media at all in that case. I will try to forget everything what they had ever said or what was written by them, simply because it is false and as fake as it could get, as we know today. Taken their written stuff into consideration only leads us into false direction.
BB
http://www.acafc.net/pages/Site_de_Mandeure_Pays_de_Montbeliard-333984.html
Do you mean this one Bluebird ?
http://www.acafc.net/pages/ACAFC_les_instructeurs_de_la_FFCA-336873.html
@Katie
9 Nov, 2012 – 1:20 pm
Actually Katie, your vedette in the sense of a little motor boat such as une vedette de douanes (customs launch) is not wrong, but as I’m sure you agree the primary meaning in French, as here in les vedettes de Hollywood, is the stars of Hollywood.
However your point about it meaning a sentry, especially a sentry charged with responsibility for the security of a shooting ground (see the dictionary definition 7(b) below) could also be a play on words, (like tirer par les cheveux – pull by the hair, or pull one’s leg / a tall story!)
vedette
nom féminin (italien vedetta, lieu élevé où on place une sentinelle)
Définitions de vedette
1. Fait d’avoir le rôle principal dans une pièce, un film, etc. : Tenir la vedette.
2. Acteur principal d’une pièce ou d’un film et dont le nom figure en tête sur le programme.
3. Acteur, chanteur, artiste, sportif, etc., très connu du public : Vedettes du music-hall.
4. Personne, chose dont on parle beaucoup, qui tient une place éminente : Être la vedette de l’actualité. Mannequin vedette d’une maison de couture.
5. Mot placé en tête d’une fiche de bibliographie ou de catalogue.
6. Synonyme de entrée (d’un dictionnaire).
7. (a)Autrefois, sentinelle à cheval ou guetteur posté pour signaler la venue de l’ennemi ; (b)aujourd’hui, sentinelle chargée de la sécurité sur un champ de tir.
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/vedette/81241
Does that add anything to our understanding of his Indians and arrows catchphrase!?
BB:
I didn’t post a pic of baby-Louis, sorry- you’re messing up!
As for my try-to-solve-peace-again:
I also tried to point out, that YOU (BB!) can’t always put your finger at other posters and discrediting them for a behaviour you yourself are showing from time to time.
You can’t shout at people telling them, for not having read YOUR (BB!) posts and at the same time miss reading the posts of others (well)
As I remarked more then once
But may be my English is just too bad to make that clear to you
(now, don’t shoot me with your bow and arrow…. 😉
We have a saying in German:
Was Du nicht willst was man Dir tut- das füg auch keinem andren zu.
(means more or less:
what you don’t want to happen to you- don’t make it to happen to others)
Help, if any other Germans here who could say that better?
(I tried to be “friendly”)
Sometimes, I have the feeling you’re
as for the pic of this Mollier – born in june
Joyeux anniversaire sylvain
article – 19/08/11 – Joyeux Anniversaire sylvain – Un gros bisous à toute la p’tite famille Saugeais en passant !!! De la part de toute l’association, nous te souhaîtons un : …
http://www.acafc.net/article-joyeux-anniversaire-sylvain-81855427.html
At least to me, that indicates away from OUR Sylvain Mollier.
But anyhow- why you don’t sent an email to the club and ask them if or if not??
So that big puzzle would be solved forever…
Shelock.
You mean: Do unto others…..etc, etc, etc.
Bluebird
It was my twitter link to the early Louis photo in July, the Nov 6 photo could well be just 4 months later he is being held rather than sitting on his own.
‘champ de tir’ = firing range
@ Tim
The guy who did the magenta pics is on MZT called M and Max and I think he just got the picture to hilight anything red ,the more red the darker its gets ,he did a few I don’t know if they still on there I will have a look when I get a chance.
Leo’s tweets significantly slowed down in freqency on Tuesday 4th September. why? His father was gunned down on Wednesday afternoon.
•30 August: 52
•31 August: 31
• 1 September: 12 (A Sunday)
• 2 September: 21
• 3 September: 24
• 4 September: 4
• 5 September: 0
• 6 September: 0
• 7 September: 0
• 8 September: 0 (A Sunday)
• 9 September: 0
•10 September: 0
•11 September: 0
•12 September: 0
•13 September: 4
•14 September: 1
•15 September: 0 (A Sunday)
•16 September: 0
•17 September: 1
————
I hope many of you are researching this treasure trove and going further back in time.
———–
The Edge
Latest layout of the transcribed interview and
family link between Hashim and Saad awaiting
confirmation plus maps showing possible access/
escape routes used by the killer(s).
Deciphered orbituary note concerning Fréderick
Brun’s death on the 29th of September 2012,
although we don’t know whether he actually
was in that Pajero, or whether that Pajero was
the one reported to have been near the crime scene.
Can anyone confirm (I may have missed this) the age of “Claire S” ?
She is much younger than SM isn’t she ?
And also, the reason why Mollier was “kicked out” of the cycling club (it was said he was kicked out ??) ?
I still believe that Mollier, Al Hilli …and Brun were in the carpark…but just want to “look right and left” so to speak.
Thanks
@Ken
When do the French school kids start back at school ?
Maybe that’s why ??
Check out his first tweet after the killing !
It’s kind of “funny” !
Al Hilli sure did like to tow things didn’t he !
( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200036/French-Alps-shooting-All-victims-France-massacre-shot-twice-head-prosecutor-reveals.html )
“Not all the stars are in Hollywood” How about the ones in Bollywood?
Israel has significantly bolstered its space-based intelligence gathering capacity with the 21 January launch of the TecSAR satellite, fabricated and operated by state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). The launch brings Israel’s orbiting satellite array, incorporating both commercial and military satellites, to seven.
As its systems come on line the TecSAR’s Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) will provide Israeli defense officials with the ability to, for the first time, independently track changes on the ground in target areas regardless of the time of day or climatic conditions.
The SAR, he explained, allows imaging “during the night or during fog or rain or snow. You are not having continuous coverage but [only] every time the satellite passes over the target. So you can just learn about changes in the infrastructure or some other items that are on the target.” optical resolution of 1m
“There are no more Indians but there are arrows”
TecSAR was launched from INDIA’S Satish Dhawan Space Centre, utilizing an Indian-fabricated rocket. The launch is a further demonstration of the increasingly close links forming between the Israeli and Indian defense industries and militaries. The launch itself was based on a cooperation agreement signed between IAI and the INDIAN government.
Israel and the US are cooperating in the development of the ARROW anti-missile system designed as a direct counter to Iran’s Shahab-3, which has a range purportedly extending into southeastern Europe and Egypt.
“One of the priorities of the build-up of the military capabilities of Israel is to have the capability to deal with the Iranian challenge, which has a very specific nature because of the differences between Israel and Iran and because of the kind of weapons systems that Iran is developing, including its nuclear program,” Brom said.
As it looks to extend its space-based intelligence gathering capacity, Israel is making a concerted push on missile development. The testing of a missile on 17 January – identified by Israel’s Army Radio as a “Jericho-3” – prompted feverish calls to emergency services from residents of central Israel and was seen by analysts as a warning to Iran of Israel’s nuclear and ballistic missile capabilities.
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Security-Watch/Articles/Detail/?ots591=4888caa0-b3db-1461-98b9-e20e7b9c13d4&lng=en&id=54029
SAH would have also received warning calls to stop what he was doing if SAH had upset the Mossad! maybe what SAH’s neighbour was talking about!
Fundraising for Iran would have triggered the Mossad’s interest and would be a good explanation for the killing.
Did anyone know that Shia Military leader Imad Mughniyeh was killed when Mossad placed a bomb in his Pajero Jeep?
@ James:
Mme. Schutz is either 27 or 29 according to press. That’s what I know.
I never heard, that Mr. Mollier was kicked out of the CC. Do you have a source for that?
What do you mean with “look right and left”? I don’t know what expression.
@ all:
– anybody out there who can give me the source that Mr. Al Hilli was wearing a bullet-proof west… think I remember it was Kathie who told that
– re the 4×4-Pajero-accident: I’ve only seen that small and unspectacular note in le Dauphine. From where do we know -for sure- that it was M. Brun in the car? Sitting in the back of this car… Who can link me to the source?
Thanx a lot for that!
– I often ask myself why there are no locals involved in any discussions to find out the truth….. I mean, somebody could put online a pix of Mr. Mollier (would be possible to do it anomynously), or just saying yes it’s him- or not— or re Mr. Brun.. but there’s nothing at all- as far as I couldn’t find anything.
@ Ferret:
I think you did a good job with your posting in the French Forum. I couldn’t have done it any better. But I find the reaction of the French rather disappointing.
Or do you think, the just didn’t pay any attention to this accident???
Strange and bizzar from A to Z.
Thanx for any comments to may questions!!
Breaking news:
Body guard has shot & killed himself inside the residence of the prime minister of Sweden.