My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
How did ‘ex-RAF’ man leave?
Supposedly the arrival of SM ahead of ‘ex-RAF’ man allowed SM to be killed – seven shots in total – before ‘ex-RAF’ man got there.
‘Ex-RAF’ man also claims to have seen a vehicle and a motorbike coming down the hill when he presumably was even closer to the car park.
How reliable is his testimony, what corroboration is there for it? Who has vouched for him?
My theory….
Maybe Al Hilli was the lure.
Possibly someone followed across shooting as the car reversed.
It maybe that a reversing and arcing car is easy to hit.
It could also be the gunman never left (by foot, road or bike).
Maybe the “exRAF” chap was formally with the Royal Air Force.
@Nuid
I don’t know why people are attempting to make this whole thing more complicated than it has to be. It seems to me likely that al Hilli was due to meet the French cyclist – for whatever reason. That both of them were under suspicion of cooperation with Iran. Probably suspected by the Israelis. And that they were both shot for this reason. Al Hilli’s wife and mother in law could have been shot as a warning to others. Or just because they were there.
It’s perfectly possible that the ex-RAF guy is legit, lives in the area, and was out for a cycle. There is no reason to think the older girl was “tortured”. She probably left the car before the shooting took place, and on coming back, was shot at and hit on the head. When the mother had seen gunmen approaching, she had pushed the 4-year-old girl down and told her to hide. There is no reason to think the little girl used the words “good guys and bad guys” – that was indirect speech, words used by Maillaud.
I can’t see much in the way of blood spatter, but I did think there was blood on the shelf behind the back seats. However, it wouldn’t have remained so red for so long. Blood goes a rust colour fairly quickly.
If al Hilli had been leaving the previous camp site on his own several times a day, perhaps the killers were surprised to find him there with a car full of people. They killed the two women, but didn’t expect the children. Weren’t prepared for them. So they dealt with the older girl as quickly as possible and missed the younger one completely. They had limited time and had to get away.
Questions remaining:
Why did the ex-RAF guy not hear the shooting? Or did he? Do we have any idea where the 4×4 and the motorbike are supposed to have been when seen by him? Did they pass him on their way down when he was still on his way up?
Why did the killers come back down the road, and risk being seen, instead of carrying on round the bend and on for 20 miles as the “crime reporter” mentioned on BBC 5 Live?
Who used the second weapon which caused the police to find casings from more than one weapon? The weapon used in the killings seems to have been reasonably well established here.
Did General Yossi Ben Hanan from the Israeli embassy land at a nearby helicopter pad and pick the killers up? Did the French bother to follow this angle up?
Now what have I left out? Please do tear this to pieces.
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Nice post Nuid, but in all honesty, I have to say that a fucking amazing AAA-grade Five Star Neutron Bomb class slam dunk(tm) Sherlock Holmes solution of L’Affaire Chevaline (7 per cent, maybe?) like yours, should really NOT have to ask ANY questions AT ALL!
No Siree BOB!
You must be FIRM!
You must not let JAMES, or ANTON, the blaggards, sway your resolve!!! In any way! At all!!!
YOU must answer ALL the questions NOW (in fact, NOT EVEN BRING THEM UP, preferably), then us legions, swarms, of , yes! PEERS, can review your hard work to shit, and thoroughly trash it….
That is the custom here!
Any questions?
Cryptonym said:
As the anon concerned that is… errr… concerning. Mods?
Oh Jeeez you’re angry.
What’s you’re skpeee. I would willing explain.
You just seem angry at all things…BUT you have no foundings.
I have you right ? You have BiPolar or sone other issue ?
Anons comment on this blog above was made here on this site, it no longer exists, has been erased, an issue for the moderators of this site to ponder. Comments on that thread http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/london-metropolitan-university/ of the 6th of September now jump from 4:22pm to 4:55pm.
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I’m not clicking on the bastard, that’s for sure!
ANDERS7777 says………..
You must not let JAMES, or ANTON, the blaggards, sway your resolve!!! In any way! At all!!!
YOU must answer ALL the questions NOW (in fact, NOT EVEN BRING THEM UP, preferably), then us legions, swarms, of , yes! PEERS, can review your hard work to shit, and thoroughly trash it….
That is the custom here!
Any questions?
I am going to use that in my replies.
You ever heard of the NAZI PARTY ? They were quite big in the 40’s ?
ANDERS7777 says………..
ANDERS7777
My worry is, you work for someone.
Maybe some that likes to promote “dis info” ?
I looked and found you are active in alot of areas on the interweb.
Why is that ?
I look at your “comments”…and really it’s just craxy.
Without going into your commments….and denying free speech without shouting people down….
Who do you work for ?
I live outside the UK, but I have skpe, so I ma MORE than willing to chat with you.
Are you ?
Are you (whoever “you are”_ willing to talk ?
@james
No, the DWP work for me.
james and anon and whoever else.
you are a pair of shill sub gchq 6 quid an hour night shift turds take it to the horse meet disco.
i here your boss william hague likes the place that is why he does israels bidding cos of the foto’s but you would not know that cos you are low rent forum crowd control
Oh ….
Here we go again !
Night shift turds !!!! Govt bosses !!!!
Yep, I get you guys. Name calling but no balls.
I have skype. I can set up an “anon” account” if you like.
I don’t hide.
And name calling from “tweerps” is nothing.
MAN UP ANDERS7777.
Face the people you call !
The internet is easy to “hide” behide. Why are you
A.Name calling
B. Hiding ????
Are these two for real? What’s going on?
Anyway, a motorbike could fit in a car going to the site and be ridden back down by someone already at the rendezvous point.
@Roma
Any chance of a calzone? I’m fucking starving! I’m not fussy! Fill it with leftovers, and treble the pepperoni! Put it on @ james’s tab, he’s pissed!!!
Anyway, a motorbike could fit in a car going to the site and be ridden back down by someone already at the rendezvous point.
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Agreed.
Tony, I have never said I hide.
I never enter in the “name calling” you and “Ambers7777″‘s employ.
…and I also use capital letters when “trying” to write.
I have skype, if you would like to discuss your issues ????
You scared ????
Name callers !
That’s all. Nada relevant.
Who do you work for ???????
Boo !
Noticed my replies dont come through !
Wonder why !
Ambers7777 sounds a scared twat…and promotes di info
TONY ROMA….well I am sure I can place a pizza (since I have saves Ambers7777 swear words, I can say this)right up your fucking spic arse. (although you are Anders7777 really).
Me, Iam James…. Welcome to Yorkshire.
Well come to Rugby League.
Welcome to me …..and welcome to me inserting a pizza in “TONY ROMAs” back passage ! (smiley face !)
@anon “As the anon concerned that is… errr… concerning. Mods?”
It might be of interest you to too, to know that your comments on that LMU thread in particular your 6th Sep 4:33 comment (quoting the last indymedia comment) is no longer there, for all I know others might not be either. You might not be concerned at all, and it has gone the way of the indymedia comments and the presstv url believed to have come from the same source. I only seen and copied the indymedia comments up to and incuding the presumably penultimate D-notice/manchester based journalist one.
@cryptonym
@anon “As the anon concerned that is… errr… concerning. Mods?”
It might be of interest you to too, to know that your comments on that LMU thread in particular your 6th Sep 4:33 comment (quoting the last indymedia comment) is no longer there, for all I know others might not be either. You might not be concerned at all, and it has gone the way of the indymedia comments and the presstv url believed to have come from the same source. I only seen and copied the indymedia comments up to and incuding the presumably penultimate D-notice/manchester based journalist one.
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I have NO IDEA wtf you are on about, but I’m not touching the bastard!
Cryptonym,
It was weird. I saw the Indymedia “blocked” message and the last comment appear at the same time on the same page but only once. I had already copied earlier messages. I copied the text and posted it here but had already noticed the URL didn’t work so was searching for the correct version of, what I thought, was a truncated link before I also posted it. I intended to post the correct link when I found it but I never did. I later posted the “claimed” link from the pulled comment for reference.
Cryptonym, Anders7777, I’ve been looking for Anon’s comment using Google, which says it’s on the Statement of Irmeli Kranz thread, not London Metropolitan University. The trouble is, I can’t find it there. The Google search result includes a Google Cache link – but that comment doesn’t seem to be there either.
My Google search-term: Chambery site:craigmurray.org.uk
Clark,
Thanks. I had already checked the other thread because I knew I had made the odd comment there although I was trying not to “derail” two threads and just keep it to one. I notice that another comment of mine has gone missing from that thread (specifically directing Craig to the comments in the LMU thread).
james..
your buddies are out of control.
tell them they are not putting enough heavy metals and fluoride in the water.
tell them many people do not believe a filthy word frank gardner or anyone in the beeb.
straight talking yorkshireman or low rent twatter.
the sad fact is people like you think you are in the club.
but it is not a club it is a meat grinding machine with children always the victim.
now piss off that is a good yorkshire twatter
OK, Google found the “deleted” comment; I was fooled by the new comment paging system. Here it is:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/statement-of-irmeli-krans/comment-page-1/#comment-354274
Anders7777, are you using M$ Windows and Internet Explorer? Many of the links you post are truncated and can’t be followed.
There’s nothing wrong with the links people are posting to other threads, they are safe to click on. You should consider using a GNU/Linux based operating system, or at least installing Firefox and using NoScript. It’s really relaxing to browse around the ‘net without constantly having to worry that your operating system might get subverted.
Anders7777, please don’t ask people to post .mht files. They’re in a secret Microsoft format that cannot be opened by any other browsers.
Clark you’re absolutely right, it is in the Irmeli Krans thread, that subject bubbled up in there too, I knew I’d seen it here, but thought it couldn’t possibly have been in there for some unaccountable reason. Panic over, your integrity here is restored in my eyes, thanks too.
I was trying to help nuid with the timeline and sources of the indymedia comments, so there it sort of is, spread over four or more different threads. 🙂
Err clark. I checked the whole thread. I checked the time stamps. My comment wasn’t there. It is back now. It is always possible I made a mistake but…
quote from james
I live outside the UK, but I have skpe, so I ma MORE than willing to chat with you.
james.
poor abused craig murray is trying to run a decent family inter web site.
you keep trying to want to arrange cozy meets or telephone chats.
i believe if you type manmeat hook ups into google you will find plenty of willing meet up opportunities.
must get lonesome at the gchq call centre in staines or is it stains : )
Anon, I’m sure its all where it was, it was my error in not checking the other threads that were active at that time, and now have found the comment of yours that I couldn’t find earlier, with a little help from Clark pointing the bleeding obvious out to me.