My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Nuid quoting empee quoting Snoopster
Yes – that about describes the evidence. I have to say that is fairly typical of a French investigation.(Although of course the press French and British are involved too) Facts wobble and change for a long time before at least a few get pinned down (and no one believes it is their responsibility to find the truth or correct the press). Usually those at the top are arrogant and falsely believe they are in control and those lower down happy to feed info to the press whether true or not in exchange for money/ drinks /drugs. However there are very good French journalists (made strong though adversary!) so maybe the story will come together like a good dough in the end … maybe …
“Yes-that’s about it. Ask yourself who stands to benefit most from such a chaotic situation?”
Not the general public, that’s for sure.
“so maybe the story will come together like a good dough in the end … maybe …”
Maillaud is giving another press conference tomorrow – IF he has anything to report. But in fairness, I think he’s right not to dance to the press. He must have a lots of work to do.
I did proper attribution
@spooks
Are you one? Lol!
@ Nuid
The Gentleperson’s Guide To Forum Spies: http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5
[Jon/Mod: removed several pages of text, since the hyperlink is more than enough!]
What a disgraceful tragedy for those children,a veil of darkness will now decend on this dispicable act,evil elitist blah blah blah. I’ve just been looking at Mordechai Vanunu’s e-mails. http://www.vanunu.com/recentnews.html Scroll down to 20 Aug 2010.He pretty much sums up how we all feel,well myself anyway.
“Iran looks bad as it’s exposed as going nuclear arms shopping.” — Dave
They’re not, though. That’s important. And Gareth Porter had an article in Information Clearing House recently, pointing out how the last IAEA report was badly reported (is it ever anything else?) in the US and the West in general. I’ll see if I can find a link. But I’m going off for a while.
@Anders7777
Glad you’re back – you have been missed!
@Nuid
I suspect yours and Anders’s almost duplicate posts “crossed”, so he wasn’t aware you’d posted yours when he posted his, if you see what I mean? (Hence his “bugger you beat me too it” follow-up).
I often find this happens when I spend some time reading the thread, then post a reply without refreshing the page… in the 25 mins I’ve spent reading, there’ve been 10 or so new posts, which then get inserted between the last comment I read and my post.
Sorry if this isn’t clearer, I can’t find any better way of explaining it.
BTW, Anders7777 has only made good comments about you and your posts, at least to my reading of this thread. You felt included in one remark he made yesterday at the spooks that definitely wasn’t aimed at you.
Best mapping of the area and 2 routes from the crime scene:-
http://scotlandyard.blogspot.co.uk/
Correction: that should have read “bugger, you beat me to it”
@Anon: “ex-RAF guy should be under arrest in France now as the prime suspect. But for some reason, isn’t.”
I have said it before, but I have a lingering suspicion that he may have killed Sylvain Mollier, maybe under the impression that Sylvain Mollier had killed the family.
Early reports said that the dead cyclist (SM) was found on one side of the car, and the 7-year-old girl (Zainab) was found on the other. Interestingly, all the car doors were *locked* with the girl outside. Therefore it is plausible that Zainab was on the right-hand (driver’s) side of the car, even though her child seat appears to have been on the passenger seat. Sylvain Mollier would then have been on the side from which the shooting occurred, Zainab hiding from him either because (like Zeena) she couldn’t tell the good guys from the bad guys.
With his RAF reflexes and making use of the pistol which he was carrying for some reason, the second cyclist would then have killed the apparent murderer. Realising that the man he just killed did not have a gun, he would have been severely shocked. Upon hearing which duty (presumably coordinated with some French agency) led him to the scene of the crime in the first place, the police would have been very understanding and would later have praised him for putting the girl in the recovery position – in spite of his shock about having become a murderer himself, though innocently.
As he spoke with a familiar accent and had just killed a foreigner using an ordinary pistol, Zainab would have trusted the ex-RAF man and would have allowed him to put her into the recovery position before losing consciousness.
As there was a complete confession by the ex-RAF man, his share of the shots did not immediately require any scrutiny. Forensics only dealt with the shots fired at the Al-Hilli family. Hence, from the point of view of the leaky forensics department there was only one gun. When all the newspapers started writing that all 25 shots had come from one gun, the prosecutor felt the need to clarify that he had not said that, but could not bring himself to say that it was actually false (either bringing unwanted attention to the ex-RAF cyclist or causing misleading conclusions about the killers) or to lie that this point was still open.
The British Ambassador and a bunch of the ex-RAF man’s superiors (he now being in some other branch of the military or of intelligence) quickly went to Annecy to make sure that the unfortunate man could be flown home immediately, ensuring that the French cannot later change their mind without losing face.
Should this be even close to what happened, then the police likely has a lot more information about the crime than they are disclosing. In that case it also appears quite likely that there will be at least a partial cover-up beyond the RAF man’s involvement, though not necessarily including it in the long run.
“They’re not, though. That’s important.”
If Iran aren’t going nuclear arms shopping they should be, it will be the only thing that protects them from attack from Israel or invasion from America – although Iran is a very big country and any attack or invasion would be very difficult.
@davidlandy
Glad someone is paying attention, wink!
Thank you ever so much for your thoughtful and accurate post.
I am Celtic and my ire was raised.
My blood pressure has gone up and I was going to launch a vicious vendetta with friend Nuid and his chums here.
I was going to misspell his name as @nudi to get him going good and proper! And more besides!
I’ll give you an example of my ire.
I just composed THIS to fend off my legions of suspiciois and adversrial gnattish ankle-biters:
@nudi @golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
So thanks to your apropos intervention I shall now desist!
And bloodshed shall be averted!!!
@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Quote:
Originally Posted by greencard
Do we know there was definitely no child seat? We can only see one of the back seats in the BMW, why couldn’t it have been on the other side?
Anders, you’re doing really good research on this case. Don’t start going all ‘spooks/shills’ on us and accusing anyone with a differing view of being one. People are different, people have different views. By accusing someone of being a spook just because they have an opposing view does nothing for your case, which at the moment is turning in to a stronger and stronger case. If you dont’ like their opinion, just don’t reply to them.
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I’ve been swatting them off like flies here and at Craig murrays place
I saw exactly the same after 911
Been around too long
20 years
Not to sniff out the propagandists
Felix at CM is brilliant at it, N too.
I think I’ve made my point
They waste your time making you REPEAT previous posts
I.e. the gun stuff just now
Some are too lazy to READ the thread from the beginning
Amateur ankle-biters
Others waste your time and plant lies and disinformation
These are the pros
Unpaid SAYANIM or paid pros with agendas
@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepy
Thanks for this. No, I hadn’t seen it.
I suppose it doesn’t really matter where RAFman was sitting (back or front). My gut feeling remains that he was the assassin and that he was in the car and that the Al-Hilli’s trusted him implicitly (hence the 4-year-old not knowing who were the good and bad guys).
So very sad for the children caught up in all of this mess. They will forever be scarred by the actions/decisions of these adults.
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RAFman likely his handler, makes sense. As I said yesterday SAH felt safe at this lonely rendezvous in the woods …
@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Originally Posted by greencard
No. The AK47 was developed for military use. It doesn’t mean every killing done with an AK47 was done by military personnel.
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Joe bloggs can’t buy skorpions at Patel’s on the corner…
@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Quote:
Originally Posted by fancycat
New Coriscan killings were with a kalashnikov, thats generally 7.62mm , would be poetic if it wasn’t a gang killing. 30 rounds in a magazine
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Diversion.
Take the heat off all the developing Mossad involvement blowback, don’t be fooled people.
did i not read some of the shell casings were in the car – meaning the gun was fired In the car ?
@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Originally Posted by sheepy
Exactly! That’s what keeps bringing me back to RAFman (that and the simple fact that his side of the story does not add up!). Given, if he was innocent party (which I seriously doubt) he may very well be in shock (but that seems a little far-fetched given his special training in the RAF).
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Last question, yes, he may have been turned. Either almighty fuckup or he was in on it (double agent) or he was part of a Brit Increment hit on foreign soil, the scrambling of 20 spooks yet another diversion, not in the know.
Anders can I go on the pro list too please? I’ve always fancied being a spook
From David Icke
http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1308585.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/BMW+
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjlNiJba6XacgsxcMvoLkUthWOrTC6oS-vZSF9uWB3uADYDcBd
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images q=tbn:ANd9GcTu8PWfUyhTlftS15xTud339GCmAAXb10EeBh3vcir3uXSn8QqlZg
Has the car moved:-
Davebroker:-
They’ve bumped it round to get it on the lorry, they lorry is too long to reverse onto the car where it lies, so they’ve had to move the car a bit to line it up with the bed.
If the correct position of the BMW is more acute than we first thought. It is much harder/less likely to be in that position by reversing from a front towards the bank further along.
The position looks more as though they were heading ‘down’ the road back towards the village when an oncoming vehicle blocking the road meant they had to reverse in to the acute angle of the layby at which point the gunman opened fire from the bushes by the side window near where the tarp (possibly covering Mollier was seen). Perhaps they had to reverse a couple of hundred yards and so went too fast into the bank, getting the rear left wheel stuck.
did i not read some of the shell casings were in the car – meaning the gun was fired In the car ?
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Not sure about that, but a pro WOULD probably lean in, to make sure.
The car was SPRAYED. I say 2 shooters, one spraying, the other helping.
Kidon teams have 4
Watcher
Helper
Driver
Killer
In this case the killer was aided by the helper
IMO
Anders can I go on the pro list too please? I’ve always fancied being a spook
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Affirmative.
@Anders7777
You are very welcome. Glad to hear I helped avert an unnecessary spat.
😉
No problem with Celtishness – completely understood over here. And I think they were really goading you yesterday!!!
Anyway, I’ve always enjoyed your contributions. And Nuid’s, and many others.
Unfortunately yesterday it seemed like we were joined by a small number of people who were intent on smothering the truth, rather than revealing it, which was very frustrating.
They know who they are.
I think they have been trying to shift the topic off the censored subjects in the UK press, namely Al Hilli’s involvement with the nuclear industry (incl SILEX?), possible speculation about the role of Mossad in the killings, and so on.
What do you think?
Loving the link to “The Gentleman’s Guide To Forum Spies” – will read and inwardly digest, as they say!
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapori
anders.
With all due respect. What’s all that guff you copied & pasted regarding the Baretta 70 & 71, .22 cal pistols?
All I was doing was trying to find out which weapon had been used in the attack.
Has a .22 cal been mentioned in any reports. Do you have any knowledge that a .22 cal weapon was used.
Rubbishing others views, and thinking that your posts are gospel is doing you no favours.
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Read this thread, all of it, read all my posts at Craig murrays site, two loooong threads.
You are wasting my time again. I won’t be replying any more to time wasters – check out all my guns ballistics caliber guff.
I have been right all along whilst the official story morphs hour by hour whilst the spooks massage the story.
Nice try and a la votre!
Only a spook from Oxbridge would say “guff” btw!!! Lmao!
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00333/112636941_fra_333661d.jpg
Photo link 2 corrected with wheel stuck
@davelandy
Yes you stopped me in my tracks. The thread I’m sure thanks you also!
Ref the unspeakable word Mossad.
Out is indeed noticeable in the dead tree press by its absence.
That should give you a clue. I was going to post here something I said at Icke two hous ago. But the forum has very suspiciously just been NOBBLED.
Ok it’s back up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crowcrow
Two points here, many older guns are still perfectly serviceable – and the bullets these take are widely available (and cheap). Is odd to use an older gun, but could be all part of laying an odd scent to throw people off? It could be purely for the sound, it it could be all they could get on the black market, without worrying about a trail. Or it could be from a cache sitting dormant for a long time?
Second, just because this can run as an automatic, does not mean that it has to be – perfectly possible to have it set this gun to fire just one bullet with each trigger pull.
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They are pushing a lone gunman theory.
ANYTHING TP DIVERT AYTENTION FROM
MOSSAD
MKO HIT TEAMS PAID BY MOSSAD
KIDON TEAMS
SAYANIM
THE EXFILTRSTION OF THREE KIDON BY AN ISRAELI GENERAL BY HELICOPTER TO GENEVA
They were advertising for spooks on Monster Jobs a few years back….so I think a lot of them are more Mosside than Oxbridge these days. They said ex cons and ex druggies were welcome, so long as they’d “retired” from both occupations at the time of their application.
They were advertising for spooks on Monster Jobs a few years back….so I think a lot of them are more Mosside than Oxbridge these days. They said ex cons and ex druggies were welcome, so long as they’d “retired” from both occupations at the time of their application.
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Funnily enough when I lived in South Africa, back in the day, the Joburg STAR was advertising spook jobs with BOSS.
I kid you not. Good money and perks too, if you get my drift. I thought it would be a laugh to apply, get to mix with Kelly, Cameron and Thatcher, when he wasn’t getting lost in the desert testing out prototype SatNavs for British Rail. I always did fancy babysitting nuclear bombs on shush shush missions to the UAE and Travis AFB! The have REAL brothels there you know! With women, and things…
Where was I?
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapori
CC.
After further research I feel you may be right. It appears to be a cumbersome weapon, I would think for use against a single target only. (Was the cyclist the ONLY intended target)? With regards to the silencer reliability. The rubber washers could be replaced with brass ones to prolong the effectiveness of the silencer.
The Skorpion also only had a 10-round magazine for 7.65mm ammo. The larger volume magazine was designed for 9mm ammo. So the perp would still have to change magazines.
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It is a bollocks story to protect Israel from the BLOWBACK WE ARE CREATING