96 thoughts on “Edinburgh Islamophobia Conference

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  • November

    Muslims must hear of much horrors first hand from folks back home.

    Take a look at the propaganda on the Syrian crisis and note the Arabic content with little English around and take a good look at the ravaged and mangled souls and the destruction of the weapons that is so callously referred to as the “collateral damage”.

  • Mary

    The pre trial hearing has taken place for the three men preparing for acts of terrorism overseas. They have been held in custody since last July. They have pleaded guilty.

    The BBC have it as their main item on he 6 O’Clock News. The actual report is on the main page but is not the lead story.

    Dart, Alom and Mahmood plead guilty to terror charges
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21799217

    There are twelve uses of the words, terror, terrorist or terrorism on the page including in the five other news links at the bottom.

  • Mary

    s/be
    The pre trial hearing has taken place for the three men charged with preparing for acts of terrorism overseas.

  • nevermind

    This thread is alive and still humming, but

    it loves to have the last word, as if to make out to those reading this blog, that it is the definitive axle on Craig Murray’s cart.

  • doug scorgie

    On a lighter note, I’m told that Alcoholics Anonymous is participating in this year’s Red Nose Day.

  • craig Post author

    Guano,

    I am perfectly prepared to accept that Aangirfan or whoever has a “greater” mind than me. But whether the directors of the East India Company were or were not Jewish is not a question of metaphysics, it is a question of simple historical fact.

    I have spent all of the last three days in the National Archives of Scotland, just as I have spent most of the last four years in archives in India, Scotland and England, researching manuscripts for my biography of Alexander Burnes, a very senior employee of the East India Company.

    He dealt all the time with the Governor General, President of the Board of Control, and directors. I have not come across any one of them who was Jewish. It just isn.t true the East India Company was a Jewish body. If having a great mind means believing that the world is an evil Jewish plot, I am glad to have a plodding mind instead.

  • Jemand - Evolutionary Religion 101

    For a long time, the UK has been awash with knives. It has a bloody history of knife ownership. There are still some strong advocates of knife ownership but we generally see it in slow decline as iPods have become popular. Rome has elected a new knife club president just the other day. Some people groaned.

    In the recent past, the UK permitted and seemed to encourage the migration of gun owners from countries that have gun ownership embedded in their constitution. Not only did the UK facilitate the entry of gun owners into the country, which would normally be fine, but they allowed them to bring their guns as well. Gun clubs have sprung up all around the country and it is the fastest growing hobby in the UK. One day, it is estimated that most Britons will be gun owners.

    Now, it is a truism that there will always be good people and bad people. Bad people do bad things. There are good knife owners and bad knife owners. The Roman knife club has been embroiled in controversy as some club members have been caught stabbing children. Many bad knife owners have got away with doing bad things.

    And there are good gun owners and bad gun owners. Sometimes we read about a gun owner going on a shooting rampage and killing several people. It is always a tragedy. Then the media raises the issue of gun ownership and people start debating the merits of gun control. People who criticise gun ownership are often shouted down and accused of hating gun owners.

    But it’s true that some people who are against gun ownership do hate gun owners. They’ve seen conflicts all over the world where there are fights between owners of guns and knives. Gun owners seem to come out on top. Hating gun owners is not going to resolve questions concerning problems related to gun ownership.

    On this blog, there are some gun owners and they seem to be nice people. But most contributors, I believe, are non-gun owners. Curiously, the non-gun owners are most enthusiastic in defending gun ownership, sometimes quoting rules from the user manual that demonstrate responsible ownership. Many times I have tried to point out that the user manual also advises occasional shooting of people who own iPods. But they ignore me and continue to quote all the good stuff in the manual as if that makes killing iPod owners irrelevant or OK. I find their attitude puzzling. I own an iPod and don’t like the idea of being harassed or murdered just for using it.

    I support the active discouragement of ownership of *all* weapons – knives and guns including Uzis.

    Please hand in your knives and guns and get yourself an iPod.

    . . .
    knife = an instance of belief in Christianity
    knife owner = Christian
    knife ownership = the Christian religion
    gun = an instance of belief in Islam
    gun owner = Muslim
    gun ownership = the Islamic religion
    iPod = an instance of belief in Atheism

  • guano

    Craig

    Thanks for your reply. My mistake. Aangirfan was talking about the Dutch East India Company. The Spanish Inquisition resulted in some of the skills of Jewish people eventually being exported to non-Catholic countries such as Holland and when Oliver Cromwell needed finance, to the UK. Others transferred their trading skills, including the trade in slaves to the New World. They were forced by experience of expulsion to look for trans-national systems of conducting business which means that they were centuries ahead in the global business model we have today.

    Is that relevant to anything that is going on in the world today. In my mind very relevant indeed. Does that mean that I’m sitting with Tony Benn complaining about the ruin of nation state economies by global trade? My great grandfather had a shipping company in Cardiff and travelled the whole world. So of course I’m not saying anything against global trade.

    What I do believe is that where business is global it has always been difficult for nation states to tax it, and historically that has led to the ammassing of great fortunes, which in turn has enabled business to blackmail national foreign policy. The nation that deviates from its own national interest carries the burden of blame for its leaders compromised position and the people get the blame.

    Islamophobia is a distraction from state terrorism because it focuses on the tensions that exist inside our communities instead of the root cause of those tensions: privately sponsored state terrorism leading to immigration and blame. Why would I be unhappy with the import of Islam to this country? It’s the best thing that ever happened to me. But it carries with it a tendency for the immigrant population who were subjected to privately sponsored state terrorism in previous times to blame the people of the country that terrorised them. Which is very unjust as well as being very prevalent.

    I find it very ironic that now that Asian Muslims reside in affluence in this country, they are too lazy intellectually to explain why they do not blame themselves for their powerlessness at preventing the privately sponsored state terror of the war on terror on their own countries of exile. In the context of a discussion about Islamophobia it would be helpful for the Asian Muslims to state categorically now that they can now see that the UK people are absolutely free either individually or collectively from the crimes of their present or previous governments.

    That assurance , or promise to change attitudes on their side now that they see the situation on the ground, would I believe go a long way to solving the problems of ethnic tension, which the state sponsored media or if not -sponsored then state-liberated media consistently try to fuel. If ethnic groups want to remove prejudice, the onus is on them to remove the prejudices which they themselves have. They are capable of better analysis level than they currently exercise. Do they in fact like basking in the victim attention which the media, for its own agenda to hide the crimes of government, provides?

    I’m sorry to get wound up. I receive a lot of racism from lazy thinking, but highly intelligent, Muslims who conveniently post the blame for the present war on terror and previous crimes on us English. Even if we are ‘apke’ English like me, ‘one of your own kind’. Why not pin it on themselves? You have yourself a good day, in American parlance. ( teeth grind )

  • guano

    In short. I find that many Asian Muslims think that there is no necessity for themselves to speak against the war on terror, because it is obvious that they are opposed to the destruction of their countries of exile, but that in the case of the English people the expressions of racist/religious hostility in the media and the ignorance of some members of the community means that the English people are complicit and collusive in their governments crimes. They should know better. They cannot ask the ignorant who are prejudiced to reform themselves when they refuse to eliminate their own prejudices. Sufficient time has elapsed for Asian Muslims to distinguish between the state and the people, and not to equate media malice with general malice against either foreigners or Islam. I am a witness of a decade and a half to some very unpleasant and difficult to budge prejudices from within the Muslim community. Patience is wearing thin in the UK. I beg the Muslim community to look at itself and its own part in fanning the flames of prejudice. If they want conflict, then that is entirely up to them.

  • Mary

    I got the ‘it’s all the immigrants’ fault’ stuff again this morning. This from a retired multi national executive who took early retirement and so well off that he and his wife take about six holidays a year including to places in Australia, the Arctic circle, the Mediterranean, Europe and other countries.

    People will not accept that we are suffering from the massive bank fraud and collapse of the so called financial system in 2007/8. I heard on the World Service this morning that Cyprus has just been bailed out with $13 billion, caused by the knock-on effect of the Greek economy collapse which has affected the banks in Cyprus.

    We in the West are living in a very fragile giant house of cards.

  • Mary

    What a rip off! Ms Lagarde and her cronies in the IMF and the ECB are imposing charges on savers in the Cyprus banks. Over 100,000 euros balance 9.9% and under 100,000 euros 6.75%. In other words, the savers and depositors are paying for the bail out. There are over 70 billion euros on deposit in Cypriot banks. Lagarde et al are robbers and bullies – Cyprus is small cf Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

    Eurozone and IMF agree 10bn-euro Cyprus bailout deal
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21797888

  • November

    I find that many Asian Muslims think that there is no necessity for themselves to speak against the war on terror,

    Tell that to Babar Ahmed who has been in HMP Bell-Marsh for running a website, tell that to umpteen others who have had their homes raided in fact one of them wound up with his home getting dismantled brick by brick. Everyday there is a new trail and some more Muslims are sent down for wanting to do all manner of things, and or reading the old “anarchists cookbook” that has been adapted by CIA and let loose to catch the Muslims in possession of it. What you find is most certainly end of your nose mate, and any more than that would be a fucking miracle.

    They cannot ask the ignorant who are prejudiced to reform themselves when they refuse to eliminate their own prejudices.

    So in other words Asians are ignorant as well as bastards to a man of them, and we should accept this because you are Muslim and you know this first hand!

    Sufficient time has elapsed for Asian Muslims to distinguish between the state and the people, and not to equate media malice with general malice against either foreigners or Islam.

    Wheehhheeyyyyy on goes the sermonising, what kind of drivel is this line? The media that is whipping up (legitimately legally openly) hatred against Muslims (the cryptic word for coloured immigrants) on a daily basis, which then is picked up by the “English” (albeit the ignorant ones, whom give not one fuck about facts and are more in tune with the thoughts; thought out for them by the Sun, Express, Daily Mail, Evening Standard, etc), however the ones at the receiving end of all this hatred ought to be discerning as to when they are getting kicked in and beat up as to whether it is general malice or state sponsored repression?

    What kind of philosophising are you engaged in mate?

    I am a witness of a decade and a half to some very unpleasant and difficult to budge prejudices from within the Muslim community. Patience is wearing thin in the UK. …………. in fanning the flames of prejudice. If they want conflict, then that is entirely up to them.

    So comes the threats with menaces, sort of a fate worse than worse than death could be awaiting the Muslim community, if they don’t get on bended knee and apologise wholeheartedly for their sins, and become good little “niggers” and get on with their chores with a daily prayer to thank Allah for the blessed “English”. When do we see the Muslims getting carted off to concentration camps for their sins and misdeeds?

    Fact that Sidekick General soon jumps in agreement with you, is a damned good indication of which side of the fence these kind of rhetoric land in (Palestinians ought to recognise zionistan, kind of shit) . You are blaming the victims of repression and violence and maintaining that they are hated because it is their own fault.

    Therefore there is no need for any changes in the law, to outlaw hatred against Muslims, or afford these Muslims the protection that Jews enjoy. Further, any measures in this direction are in fact distractions.

    Do Muslims a favour and go find yourself another religion mate, with pilgrims like you there is no need for any enemies for Muslims.

    PS what does “apke” mean and what language is it from? You keep using it in Julius Streicher fashion.

  • The CE

    The main reason I can discern for ‘The Cypriot Charge’ is the fact that Cypriot banks are stuffed to the gills full of laundered Russian money.

    I think the Bundestag may have balked at bailing out Russian mobsters.

  • technicolour

    November: “The media that is whipping up (legitimately legally openly)

    Not legitimately.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    “The main reason I can discern for ‘The Cypriot Charge’ is the fact that Cypriot banks are stuffed to the gills full of laundered Russian money”

    Exactly.

    I wonder if the family firm of Assad and Son has a bank account or two there as well?

  • November

    Not legitimately.

    True, and I stand corrected, it ought to have been “freely, without any let or shame”. Good point.

  • Mary

    Cyprus president defends bailout deal amid public anger
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21818598

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicos_Anastasiades

    He was only elected president on 24 Feb and a few weeks later is stitching up his countrymen and women. Coming to other EU countries soon I reckon. A steal. Grand theft of the little people’s savings.

    He has done all the right things. Joining NATO. Doing as the banksters and Mrs Merkel tell him. He will go far.

    The Finance minister Sarris has his head held over a barrel too I think. He was involved in some homosexual sex scandal involving a minor 15 months ago. Google Translate have it as ‘Michalis Sarris is accused by the pseudo police for illegal “sexual relationship against the laws of nature.”!

    http://www.sigmalive.com/simerini/news/local/428411

    There is a big stink coming in a meeting of the Cypriot parliament now postponed of course by order of the banksters.

  • guano

    November

    as you yourself pointed out, I have a higher standard for Muslims than non-Muslims. Correct. Why is it so unthinkable for you as well that if non-Muslims project their fears onto the Muslims and become racist in their attitudes that Muslims do not do the same? Why is it so sacrosanct for you that the ethnic minorities victims of media and social oppression should themselves never oppress the minorities within their own circles of influence. They do. And what is more, they know that they do.

  • guano

    November

    There is an ichtilaf/disagreement amongst the Asian Muslims on the time of the afternoon prayer, maximium difference between these two times is about 50 minutes. One brother who I was working for recently concealed the time he prayed the afternoon prayer from me but because we were sitting talking accidentally revealed that he was about to miss his prayer. Which means that he didn’t want me to know that he belonged to a group who would accuse me of being a non-Muslim, and in another context would rob me or kill me without hesitation. You know nothing at all about the extraordinary bullying that takes place inside Islam.

    One imam once announced an education programme for the ignorant people. So I thought he was talking about the non-Muslims. No he was talking about the people outside the saved sect of his own circle. At one point in history the Muslims from India colonised Burma and enslaved the indigenous people as in fact the Saudis have enslaved the poor workers from the Far East who come to do domestic service and construction there. There is a very fine line between defining your brother as ignorant and as non-Muslim, or as servant and slave. When the Muslims hold power in their hands, and they believe in my case that they have the key of power over me in my religion, they exercise that power mercilessly and ruthlessly. Is that Islam or Islamophoneya?

  • November

    Firstly your brief reply does not address some of the questions that has been put to you, ie as in the use of “apke” what does this mean and which language is it from as yet still remain a mystery.

    Secondly you go onto reiterating:

    I have a higher standard for Muslims than non-Muslims.

    What kind of authority do you bestow upon yourself? On what grounds do you give yourself this power? Why do you even think that Muslims ought to be held to higher standards of conduct? What basis do you believe affords you the right to expect thus?

    Don’t you think that, you are really a very poor Muslim and have little understanding of what Islam is about? Can you in fact read Arabic? Further can you comprehend Arabic?

    Why is it so unthinkable for you as well that if non-Muslims project their fears onto the Muslims and become racist in their attitudes that Muslims do not do the same?

    This statement is so wrong in so many levels that is unbelievable. Further, this shows you have no understanding of the realities that the “Muslim” (foreigners, immigrants, anyone with a slight colour variation) community is facing, in the current hostile climate that has been brought on by the deliberate fanning of the flames of hatred by successive governments in UK.

    Fact that you sanguinely refer to the racism that majority engage in as a matter of routine, and justify this as being rooted in their fears, is clearly an indication of an unhealthy and racist attitude that you harbour yourself. Further, although you claim to be familiar with the “Muslims” you somehow set yourself as the judge and pontificate; Muslims ought to be adhering to higher standards of conduct and if these fail in doing so, then they are in fact asking for the racism and hatred that is directed at them. A convenient cover for your own racist attitude, towards your so called fellow Muslims.

    You seem to have learnt nothing, and have no clue about the struggle of being different and an outsider in UK. The daily two minutes hate of the “Media” the movies, the computer games, the print media, the TV all rubbishing the Muslims (read immigrants, and coloured people) away freely, legally, openly, overtly, without any let or getting shamed. The larger host community refusing to accept the new comers (despite these having been born in the UK) as equals or to absorb these, and instead pushes these souls to coalesce together and form their own islands amidst the host society.

    These islands magnifying the “fears” as you have coined, and become the focal point of racist hatreds and attacks on those commuting in and out of the said islands. However, because every Muslim ought to be a blessed saint as per your ruling, these attacks and constant waves of harassment ought not to distort their views, and these sainted Muslims all ought to be enjoying their suffering and be grateful for having been subjected to the inordinate amounts of abuse and hurt.

    Further, fact that you claim you were educated for free somehow has not been fully explained to you. You went to university for free, because your government was busy fleecing the wealth of these “coloured immigrants’ countries”, these poor bastards were left with the choice of staying behind and facing hunger, and destitution or up sticks and come to the place that was syphoning the wealth away to work in a Blati restaurant and get abused by the late night drunkards, or drive a bus, and or clean the toilets and or such high yield occupations!

    Fact is ignorant racist toads never understand that these immigrants have every right to be in this country because their fathers and forefathers have subsidised this country for the benefit of the racist bastards whom now are busy dishing out punishment to these “outsiders”.

    Why is it so sacrosanct for you that the ethnic minorities victims of media and social oppression should themselves never oppress the minorities within their own circles of influence.

    What the fuck are you on about mate? Are you trying to say that you have the right to abuse the “coloureds” because although you are in a minority that is getting abused and socially oppressed, but you have every right to abuse these “coloured immigrants” because that is the rule?

    Finally don’t go and post a couple of lines reiterating your bigotry, and instead answer the questions and or do a souls searching as a Muslim you are required to that, as surely you ought to know.

  • November

    When the Muslims hold power in their hands, and they believe in my case that they have the key of power over me in my religion, they exercise that power mercilessly and ruthlessly. Is that Islam or Islamophoneya?

    I had a really good laugh at this, thanks Guano.

    This last post ought to be debated in a separate line, even perhaps in tandem with the existing debate. Fact is, you are highlighting the power struggle that is currency within the poorly educated communities, among the imams, and their power support structures.

    This does not have anything to do with Islam, or Muslims, and it has everything to do with the useless, greedy bastards whom are busy looking after their own interests. Why do you think the vicious carnage of Muslims in Pakistan goes on, that is perpetrated by the fellow so called Muslims?

    BTW no one holds power over you, that is the beauty of Islam, only Allah is the mighty and nothing/none/no one else, if need be we can debate this too, in a separate line.

  • November

    Guano,

    On the last post, if you want to even be more shocked the following is a glimpse into the current power struggle between the various imams and their power support structures;

    During the last attack of zionistan on Lebanon, the grand imam of Jeddah (I believe) issued a “Fatwa” (a religious ruling/edict that followers ought to adhere to) forbidding the Saudis from praying for the Hezbollah fighters, who were getting bombarded and killed by the zionists weapons. For these “refuseniks” were deserving of the death and destruction that was getting raining upon them.

    This of course is rooted in the fear of the Al Saud rulers, because they find Shia resistance and opposition to zionists and the levels of their success in their opposition (the drubbing that Hezbollah fighters gave to the elite Golani Brigade and the various successful rocket attacks that nearly sunk a very sophisticated zionist destroyer, and the numbers of merkava tanks that were reduced to burning hulks, as well as paralysing zionistan for a week) is undermining their position (the Al Saud) in the eyes of the Saudis.

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