Navalny, Ward, Assange, Snowden and the Attack on Free Speech

by craig on July 25, 2013 4:44 pm in Uncategorized

Russia does not have a functioning criminal justice system at all, in the sense of a trial mechanism aimed at determining innocence or guilt.  Exactly as in Uzbekistan, the conviction rate in criminal trials is over 99%.  If the prosecutors, who are inextricably an arm of the executive government, want to send you to jail, there is absolutely no judicial system to protect you.  The judges are purely there for show.

When critics of Putin like Alexei Navalny are convicted, therefore, we have absolutely no reassurance that the motivation behind the prosecution or the assessment of guilt was genuine.  Which is not to say that Navalny is innocent; I am in no position to judge. People are complex.   I sacrificed my own pretty decent career to the cause of human rights, but in my personal and family life I was by no means the most moral of individuals.  I see no reason for it to be impossible that all of Navalny’s excellent political work did not co-exist with a fatal weakness.  But his criticisms of Putin made him a marked man, who the state was out to get, and the most probable explanation – especially as prosecutors had looked at the allegations before and decided not to proceed – is that he is suffering for his criticisms of the President rather than a genuine offence.

It fascinates me that the Western media view the previous decision by the prosecutors not to proceed as evidence the case is politically motivated against Navalny; but fail to draw the same conclusion from precisely the same circumstance in the Assange case.

David Ward MP has not been sent to jail.  He has however had the Lib Dem whip removed, which under Clegg’s leadership perhaps he ought to consider an honour.  It is rather a commonplace sentiment that it is a terribly sad thing, that their community having suffered dreadfully in the Holocaust, the European Jews involved in founding the state of Israel went on themselves to inflict terrible pain and devastation on the Palestinians in the Nakba.   Both the Holocaust and the Nakba were horrific events of human suffering.  For this not startling observation, David Ward is removed from the Liberal Democrats.  He also stated that, with its ever increasing number of racially specific laws, its walls and racially restricted roads, Israel is becoming an apartheid state.  That is so commonplace even Sky News’ security correspondent Sam Kiley said it a few months ago, without repercussion.  In Russia you cannot say Putin is corrupt; in the UK you cannot say Israeli state policy is malign.  Neither national state can claim to uphold freedom of speech.  Meanwhile, of course, David Cameron announces plans to place filters on the internet access of all UK households.

In the United States, the House of Representatives failed by just 12 votes to make illegal the mass snooping by the NSA which was not widely publicised until Edward Snowden’s revelations.  What Snowden said was so important that almost half the country’s legislators wished to act on his information.  Yet the executive wish to pursue him and remove all his freedom for the rest of his life, as they are doing to Bradley Manning for Manning’s exposure of war crimes and extreme duplicity.

Around this complex of issues and the persons of Manning, Navalny, Snowden and Assange there is a kind of new ideological competition between the governments of Russia, the US and UK as to which is truly promoting the values of human freedom.  The answer is none of them are.  All these states are, largely in reaction to the liberating possibilities of the internet, promoting a concerted attack on freedom of speech and liberty of thought.

States are the enemy.  We are the people.





Tweet this post


  1. Wats al thought about?!

  2. And james joyce and william blake attheir most ‘0bscure’ were too ‘$ubjective’ to be taken ‘$eriously’ – nest poos?!

  3. Passerby, 12.43pm

    When I say “trust me on that” about Sofia Wilen rather than Ardin being the true source of any possible honeytrap, I am not, of course, relying on the proximity of her home to the Enkoping PSYOPS headquarters. That would be getting into conspiracy theory territory and I’m not interested in going there.

    No, what I’m talking about is the fact that Sofia Wilen at first told the police that Assange damaged a condom (similar to Ardin’s allegation, but the point is that Sofia was the first one to make this allegation, then she changed her story to the one we’ve all heard about – only wanting to ask advice about HIV testing because she “woke up” to unprotected sex). This is corroborated in three places in the evidence already in the public domain:

    1. Physical evidence in the form of a fragment of condom was obtained from Sofia Wilen and submitted to the forensics lab. Tests found that it had been deliberately ripped and that it had DNA “from a man” which matched DNA on swabs taken from her.

    2. A senior police investigator involved in the case from Day 1 noted the following on the forensic report:

    “Complainant 1 [Wilén] did not notice that a condom broke as it was dark in the room, and when the suspect put on the condom, she heard a noise as if he were pulling on a balloon. The bit of condom was found under the bed, under the part of the bed where the suspect was lying when he put on the condom.”

    which is clearly not the same story as the dozing-then-waking incident after breakfast at 9am, as told in Wilen’s formal statement. NB. The police investigator has NOT got the two women mixed up here. He does mean Wilen, not Ardin.

    3. That Sofia Wilen had initially told police that Assange had deliberately damaged a condom is corroborated by a phone call Anna Ardin made to Swedish journalist Donald Bostrum immediately after leaving the police station on 20 August 2010. This is before she had given her own statement (the following day) and before she knows that Wilen has told a completely different story to the second police officer she spoke to, who took her formal statement. Here’s the relevant bit from Bostrum’s statement:

    And then Anna rings again and says “now we’ve been with the police and Sofia told her story and, yeah because I sat there so I added a comment of my own.” This is very ‘word for word’ and as I remember her telling me. Uh, aha I say, and what was that comment? Yeah, that comment was that “I think Sofia is telling the truth because I experienced something similar” Anna says then. And then she told me that bit about the condom then, “so that’s why I think it’s true.” And I don’t know anything about police technicalities but then Anna says, “because we suddenly were two women who had a statement about, about the same man so it became a crime against the state and so it became a complaint even though we didn’t file a complaint.”

    I’ve added quote mark and some formatting so you can see exactly what Ardin was explaining to Donald Bostrum. She breaks off mid-sentence in quoting the single sentence she interjected to back up what police are hearing from Sofia Wilen, to explain to Donald that she’s referring to what she also thinks was an act of deliberate condom sabotage when she slept with Assange. She likely did exactly the same – broke off mid-sentence to explain what exactly she thought was “true” – when at the police station. She also explains to Bostrum that this was the KEY statement which turned everything into a formal complaint, resulting less than a half-hour later in the issuing of an arrest warrant for “double rape”. Bostrum’s statement:,04.shtml

    Two women turning up at a police station with the same story of “deliberately sabotaged” condoms? And it’s the woman who did all the instigating (Sofia contacted Ardin out of the blue, visited two hospital rape clinics by herself, told Assange “no, we’re not going to police” an hour before she did in fact do just that, etc, etc) who’s the one who then changes her story? Yeah, if it was a honeytrap all along, then it’s Ms Wilen’s honeytrap. No question.

    We have a special thread on the whole case, if you’re interested in more detail:

  4. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 3:45 pm

    Nobody, at 10h56, sets us this puzzle :

    “In Russia one may not criticise Putin because Putin rules Russia.

    Yes? Might we declare that inarguable? Okay then, what of the following?

    In Britain one may not criticise Israel because…”

    I’m all a-quiver with curiosity!

    Because of whom /what?

    Spit it out, you old tease!

  5. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 3:55 pm

    Extra info on Grant Shapps/Michael Green helpfully provided by the JC’s Martin Bright who has been at the BBC World Service, Observer/Guardian, the Spectator and the New Statesman. He is now the JC’s political editor.

    Conservative party chairman who is ‘a Brit who happens to be Jewish’
    Martin Bright, October 4, 2012

  6. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 3:59 pm

    @ Fred (00h34) :

    “Or a bit like saying for example the infant mortality rate in Palestine isn’t appalling because the infant mortality rate in Ethiopia is as bad.”

    Not a good analogy, Fred, unless it was meant to demonstrate that you’re a chump.

    The infant mortality rate in Palestine (16 point something) is not good The infant mortality in Ethiopia, a country nobody’s mentioned yet and where, as far as I know, the evil Zionists play no rôle (6O something) is appalling.

  7. Dear Jon,

    I’d be interested if Pt’s IP address gives an indication where his/her incoherent babble hails from:

    I dont99‰ endorse j’$ viewz that… bla dee bblue

    seems suspiciously like an attempt at “forum sliding”

    A Gentleperson’s guide to forum spies:

    (if you agree, please don’t remove them – I’m happy with top of page 2 for my latest comment :))

  8. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 4:05 pm

    Further to Passerby’s post

    this is another person who couldn’t take any more earlier this week.

    ‘I’m sick of all this s**t': Middle-aged man in despair about bedroom tax cuts his own throat in middle of benefits advice office

    Dragged a blade from his ear down to his throat on each side of his neck
    Gory outburst happened at Halton Direct Link in Halton Lea shopping centre
    Cheshire police officers have spoken to the man about his well-being
    Middle-aged man suffered minor injuries in gory outburst

  9. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 4:24 pm

    The Frequent Poster (16h05) has done us a service by giving a good example of how certain newspapers use titles which sensationalize the articles which follow.

    In this example, the title includes the words “slits throat”, which might give the impression of someone killing himself in this fashion as a protest against the so-called bedroom tax.

    Visions of Buddist monks burning themselves to death during the Vietname war. Or Jan Palach in Prague in 1968 (yep, under those lovely Communists!).

    But read further, and what do we learn? minor injuries apparently not requiring hospitalization, lots of blood, no artery cut, man well enough to be spoken to by staff at the centre and police. Anticlimax!

    These popular papers really know how to build up the suspense only to let you down with a bump.

    I really don’t know why people bother to read them.

  10. “32 die a week after failing test for new incapacity benefit”

  11. Flaming June

    27 Jul, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    The milk of human kindness is overflowing at 4.24pm above.

  12. Who was it who said “But I never thought i’d meet the original cow.”?

    Keep the revolution in good humour!

  13. @Flaming June. Did you mean this chappy,

    or the one which will have to appear at the police station on the 29th., waiting to be charged for ….?I don’t know really, they are ganging up on him I think as there are no witnesses. But the hospital took photos of his injuries and they point to a certain view as to how his conditions have occurred.

    I don’t want to say much more, as much as that he’s ok now, but very needy and disorganised, he produced a lot of platelets which somehow send his heart into a flutter and he had a light heart attack.

    I shall keep you informed as to what will happen.

    and for today’s mundane Speculatius, the Canaries have signed a Scotsman from Celtic, Gary Hooper, their top scorer from last year….
    A much better bet than predicting the name of a newborn might be a punt on Norwich City, they are motivated and could very well end up playing in Europe at the end of next season.

    Do it now for good odds.

  14. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 6:49 pm

    The Frequent Poster (at 16h24) cannot bring herself to mention my name, preferring to use the time of my comment instead.

    Reminds one a little of referring to the “State of Israel” as the “Zionist entity”, doesn’t it.

  15. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 7:06 pm

    @ Someone (16h13)

    If the facts are exactly as stated in the report you quote from the Brighton Argus, then bringing a charge of “using threatening/abusive/insulting words/behaviour to cause harrassment/alarm/distress” against Mr Alex Cline for calling local MP Mike Weatherley a “coward” does indeed seem to constitute an absurd, even sinister, misuse of the law.

    I say “exactly as stated in the report” so as not to exclude the possibility that Mr Cline either repeated the words enough as to be considered to be attempting to disrupt the meeting, or accompanied them with a few choice adjectives of an obscene character, or acccompanied them with physical action or actions again intended to disrupt the meeting, or indeed any combination of the above. Were any or all of the above to have been the case, then the charge of course would become somewhat less absurd, even entirely reasonable.

    Anyway : as Someone is perhaps someone local, I should be interested to follow up on this case and keep us informed; the Brighton Argus will presumably be reporting on the outcome and so it would be helpful if Someone could keep an eye on it and give us more info on exactly what the charges were, what came out in court and whether Mr Cline was eventually convicted or not.

    Thanks in advance.


    La vita è bella, life is good! (follow up is important)

  16. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 7:23 pm

    More on Navalny;

    “The Kremlin’s erratic behaviour is also a sign of a growing split within the ruling Russian elite between siloviki, a powerful faction comprising former and present security servicemen, who were keen to lock up Mr Navalny immediately (and at first gained the upper hand), and civilians in the presidential entourage, including Sergei Sobyanin, the Kremlin-appointed mayor of Moscow, who is said to have persuaded Mr Putin to release Mr Navalny from jail.”

    I would like to be a fly on the wall, first at White House briefings, then at the Kremlin.

    There are growing numbers within both governments who are slowly arising from the Security Hypnosis of Nationalism uber alles. At least that’s my naive hope

  17. The criminalisation of young people with prospects in life, by taking much of their time up with judicial rigmarole and bourgeois police zeal, eager to perform to the political minority of the Government of the day. Those living in Brighton will most likely get court dates in Lancashire.
    Fracking is being politically policed on behalf of biased orders from above, Osborne’s idea of providing funds for the next pre election tax cuts must not be stopped by locals or those who object to it anywhere. This issue is pursued with even more zeal as the drive to cut a dual carriageway through Twyford Down.

  18. Mr goss

    Resisting in peices (spelling?$)

    Helen Thomas Upi

    An usually ‘pregnant’ old school mainstream medium journo#!


  19. Arbed
    ‘Forum sliding’
    What’s all that about?

  20. Helen Thomas
    Upi rip
    Well noted

    But cud she get away with it in the mainstream these days (if she was not a 90 something old fart, soon to die)?

  21. Pt
    People I’ve upset and petty bureaucrats call me Mr Goss.

    If it’s dyslogia as a fellow-sufferer I can empathise.

  22. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    27 Jul, 2013 - 8:18 pm

    John Goss, you dry wit you. If you are a sufferer, you hide it well. Your filter must be cleaned daily.

  23. Dear jon / dr dicklogia
    I don’t know you. Nor you me.
    No disrespect intended. Helen t. In her old upi fashioned way was a significant journo. So perhaps ru.
    Pt x

  24. The attack on free speech
    Ht upi
    Spent most of her life in The relatively free usa mainstream, ..
    Then she happened to mention That ..,

  25. “British Muslims donate more to charity”

    “The survey commissioned by the London-based polling agency, ICM, shows an estimated 280,000 Muslims in the UK give more money annually to charity than Jews, Christians, Hindus and Sikhs.”

  26. “A previous article discussed Thatcherism. It’s Chicago School fundamentalism writ large. It’s financial terrorism. It’s hugely exploitative.”

    “It’s forced-fed austerity. It’s corporate welfare. It’s mass privatizations. It benefits business and society’s wealthy. It’s government of, by, and for privileged elites alone.”

  27. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 10:11 pm

    @Someone. 9 41pm

    Thanks. A few lines from your link here.

    The ICM survey showed that Muslims say they donate about $567 per person per year, with Jews (also numbering around 280,000 in the U.K.) A in second place, with $412 per person annually. A Christians gave considerably less – just over $300 per person, and atheists were at the bottom of the list, with $177 donated.

    “The mutual-aid tendency in man has so remote an origin, and is so deeply interwoven with all the past evolution of the human race, that is has been maintained by mankind up to the present time, notwithstanding all vicissitudes of history.”
    ― Pyotr Kropotkin(1842 – 1921), Mutual Aid

  28. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 10:20 pm

    Sorry. Re last post.

    I did’nt make it very clear. The Kropotkyn quote was my comment on the theme of mutual aid.

    Here was a man who, though born a prince, walked the talk of human rights. So maybe there’s some hope for the royal baby.

  29. Not the Royal Baby but the Refugee Baby from Syria! Meet 10 days old Fayez born in a tent in Atmeh camp:

  30. Thanks Dreoilin, apart from its own beauty, it’ll give distraction to our little juvenile Sofia who seems so obsessed about how the Royal baby will turn out.

    Surprisingly she doesn’t seem to acknowledge through her prism of Buddhism that this baby must have done great good in previous lives to now be born with (more than) a silver spoon in his mouth. Perhaps she’ll now ‘let it be’.

  31. Why is it taking Downing Street longer to censor Detainee Inquiry interim report than it took to write?

    Spy Blog has re-submitted our FOIA Request which was refused over 6 months ago, on the grounds of imminent publication.

    Cabinet Office – 6 F Off IA exemptions not to publish Detainee (Torture) Inquiry Interim Report requested back in December 2012..

    Still no Detainee (Torture) Inquiry interim report over a year after submission to Downing Street

    The process of clearing the report for publication has taken longer than envisaged, but it is important for the Government to be able to publish as full an accounting of the Inquiry’s work as possible, without compromising national security and consistent with its legal obligations. Discussions with the Inquiry about clearing the report for publication are nearing a conclusion and it is hoped that the Government will be in a position to publish as full a version of their report as possible in the autumn, although no date has been set.

    ” in the autumn, although no date has been set.”

    It is now over 3 years since Prime Minister David Cameron announced the the setting up of Detainee Inquiry on 6th July 2010


    This is the ‘Gibson inquiry’ that Craig wished to give information to.

  32. Sir Peter Gibson Intelligence Services Commissioner, left voluntarily in December 2010. Sir Mark Waller, a judge, replaced him in January 2011.

    Here is his report for 2012. under these headings:

    Letter to the Prime Minister
    Foreword 1
    My Statutory Functions 4
    My Statutory and Extra-Statutory Functions 5
    The Method of my Review 7
    Discharge of my Functions 7
    Selection Stage 7
    Assessment of my Inspection Visits 9
    Assistance to the Investigatory Powers Tribunal 14
    Consolidated Guidance to Intelligence Officers and Service Personnel on
    Detention and Interviewing of Detainees, and on Passing and Receipt of
    Intelligence Relating to Detainees (Consolidated Guidance)
    Errors reported to me 16
    International Intelligence Review Agency Conference 18
    The Intelligence and Security Committee 18
    Confidential Annex 19
    Operational Success 19
    Statistics 20
    Conclusion 21
    Annex 22
    Useful Background Information 22
    Functions of the Agencies 23
    Warrants and Authorisations 25

  33. Sofia Kibo Noh

    27 Jul, 2013 - 11:07 pm

    Hi Villager.

    Was that inspired by your inner work? Gosh, you must have gone so deep!

    Lets talk about issues.

    What kind of life is mapped out for these two babies by others? What are the chances of either to live fully productive human lives?

    As for my assumed Buddhism, surely that was yesterday. Today it seems I’m a Kropotkyan or should that be Kropotpot?

  34. Yes, Mary, Theresa May and her diabetes have been all over the place today.

  35. “Theresa May has had Type 1 diabetes diagnosed.”

    She should go and see ATOS, allegedly they perform miracles!!!.

  36. “200,000 victims of Equitable Life collapse may miss out on compensation after Atos slips up again”

  37. Anyone who has actually been through an atos interview knows that it depends on the quality/capacity of the person/ real human being who does the ‘assessment’. Sometimes one encounters … on other occasions one is faced with …

  38. Sorry.

    Stupid post regarding “Vulnerability”.

    A social science worthy of utmost attention.

    As seen or heard on a daily basis our vulnerable should be portrayed as the helped not the helpless.

    Being Liberal should also mean being selective, having a liberal account but remaining bias!

    Something Liberal leader Campbell-Bannerman would have us proud.

  39. Arbed, 27 Jul 3.16p

    Excellent work as usual, Arbed. I suppose a plausible explanation of Wilen’s behaviour is that when she discovered that Assange’s intimate company was not exclusively hers, she decided to do a little research on Ardin to check out the competition. In her research, Wilen found Ardin’s ‘7 Steps to Legal Revenge’ page, took inspiration and decided to make contact with Ardin. What followed was a clumsy, but effective mission in character assasination that found political allies in the US-friendly Swedish establishment.

  40. Theresa May has type 1 diabetes meaning she will have to inject herself twice daily with insulin. But she is still free to inflict whatever injustices suits her racist whims.

    Talha Ahsan has Asberger Syndrome. She sent him to a US Supermax prison to be held 23 hours a day in solitary confinement at the request of her US masters. I am still trying to find out why a UK citizen could be held in a UK prison for six years without charge or trial and what he has allegedly done to warrant this torture, and whether any requests were made for him to be held in a less severe penal institution due to his medical condition. The FCO has failed to respond even though by law they should have done so by 9th July. Meanwhile Talha Ahsan has had his trial date delayed for six months. It appals me.

  41. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:28 am

    The anger is coming from the producers and retailers of luxury goods! Visitors from India, Nigeria, Kenya, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh will be affected.

    July 26, 2013 8:36 pm

    UK to pilot £3,000 tourist bond despite anger
    By Elizabeth Rigby and Elizabeth Paton

    Britain is pressing ahead with its trial of a scheme to make visitors from six countries pay a £3,000 bond, despite an international backlash and complaints from businesses.

    The government said it would begin a pilot in November to impose visa restrictions on six Commonwealth nations, including India and Nigeria, even though David Cameron poured cold water on the scheme in June after it provoked uproar in Delhi.

    Luxury goods retailers have denounced the plan as an “insulting deterrent” to wealthy tourists, which will hit sales and damage London’s reputation. They are urging the government to drop the pilot, saying the restrictions will damage their business if Commonwealth tourists – particularly Nigerians, now the sixth biggest spenders on luxury goods in the UK – are put off.

    “It’s embarrassing that our country would consider these measures against visitors who spend so much in our stores,” said Michael Ward, managing director of Harrods. “There seems to be a deeply frustrating attitude in Westminster that they should do whatever they can to actively prevent people coming to the UK.”


  42. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:32 am

    John Goss I am greatly admiring of your assiduousness and activism for human rights. Inspirational.

  43. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:40 am

    As previously reported, US AG Eric Holder promises not to call for the death penalty or to torture Edward Snowden is he returns to the US.

    July 26, 2013 5:25 pm

    US tells Russia Snowden will not be tortured
    By Anna Fifield in Washington

    The Obama administration has assured the Russian government that Edward Snowden will not be tortured or face the death penalty if he returns to the US in a bid to counteract the national security leaker’s claim for temporary asylum.

    Mr Snowden, the contractor turned whistleblower who has been holed up in the transit zone of a Moscow airport for more than a month, has filed papers asking for temporary asylum in Russia, saying he would be tortured or could be executed if he were returned to the US, which has cancelled his passport.


    Dave Lindorff writes:

    A Shameful Day to Be a US Citizen
    AG Holder promises Russia not to torture Snowden

    July 27th, 2013

    I have been deeply ashamed of my country a number of times. The Nixon Christmas bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong was one such time, when hospitals, schools and dikes were targeted. The invasion of Iraq was another. Washington’s silence over the fatal Israeli Commando raid on the Gaza Peace Flotilla–in which a 19-year-old unarmed American boy was murdered–was a third. But I think I have never been as ashamed and disgusted as I was today reading that US Attorney General Eric Holder had sent a letter to the Russian minister of justice saying that the US would “not seek the death penalty” in its espionage case against National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden, promising that even if the US later brought added charges against Snowden after obtaining him, they would not include any death penalty, and vowing that if Snowden were handed over by Russia to the US, he would “not be tortured.”

    So it has come to this: That the United States has to promise (to Russia!) that it will not torture a prisoner in its control — a US citizen at that — and so therefore that person, Edward Snowden, has no basis for claiming that he should be “treated as a refugee or granted asylum.”

  44. Someone, 27 Jul 9.41p

    Re British Muslims donating more to charity than Jews, Christians etc

    From Someone’s (no relation) link –

    “The donations went to various Islamic-oriented charities, including Muslim Aid, Islamic Relief and the Zakat Trust. Muslims also donate to individual mosques and earmark sums of money to non-Islamic causes. In 2010, Muslims in Manchester donated $79,831 to develop a United Reformed Church building in a rundown part of the city.”
    . . . .


    “[United Reformed] Church Minister, Ken Chippindale explained: It was a wonderful privilege to be able to host the Islamic Festival of Eid in our church halls.  We were joined by Christians from churches all over Sutton, showing our commitment to learn more about each other and live together peacefully.  Many new friendships were formed and the feast provided by our Muslim friends was enjoyed by all.”
    . . . .

    So it’s not hard to see that donations were not just to “charities” but to organisations that promote Islam and the interests of Muslims.

    Is that what charity is all about?

  45. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:47 am

    Better late than never, the BMA write to Obama on force feeding at Guantanamo.

    BMA urges Obama to stop doctors force-feeding Guantánamo prisoners
    Global drug companies are told practice is ‘a gross violation of internationally accepted standards of medical ethics’

  46. Thanks for the support Flaming June. Striving for justice sometimes feels like a lonely pursuit, though I know others, especially who comment on this blog, together with Craig who inspires us all, are engaged in long-term battles with the power-mongers.

  47. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 10:02 am

    @Jemand. 9 42am

    Thanks for the link showing some christians demonstrating “commitment to learn more about each other and live together peacefully.”

    You lose me though when you go on… “So it’s not hard to see that donations were not just to “charities” but to organisations that promote Islam and the interests of Muslims. Is that what charity is all about?”

    Surely the same could surely be said for many Jewish, Christian and
    other donators. Would that invalidate their acts of mutual aid?

    BTW thanks for acknowledging Arbed’s tireless work on the Assange theme. I’d like to second that. John Goss too. You’re an inspiration guys/guyesses.

  48. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 10:08 am

    Good News! Or do I need to pinch myself?

    “There is no military solution to Syria. There is only a political solution, and that will require leadership in order to bring people to the table,” John Kerry

    Fingers crossed he means it.

    The big question would be, “Which people?”

  49. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 10:15 am

    Re Kerry post:


    Sorry. An easy link to miss.

  50. Was IT this Sofia?

    Syrian rebels press US to send weapons fast, Kerry sees no military solution to crisis

    Perhaps at last it’s dawning on the Americans when they look around at the ME and, in particular, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria that their warmongering has not achieved anything except death and destruction, mayhem and massive displacements of people.

    Of course, this ignores what has happened to the Palestinians with the US support of Israel with $billions and weaponry.

  51. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 11:39 am

    Yes Flaming.

    That was “IT

    I do hope,for the sake of all the people of Syria that the US will break it’s habit of pouring petrol on the flames and seriously engage in some peace-mongering.

  52. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 11:47 am

    Just in case you missed it the first four times folks.

    Well, I reckon you can’t get too much peace-making.

    And while the US is about it, how about regaining some credibility by ceasing to arm the rogue state of Israel until it demonstrates the will and ability to control it’s destructive and expansionist urges?

  53. Sofia KN, yes it can be said for many claims of Christian and Jewish “charity” although I didn’t notice any comments on this page purporting that Cs and Js were particularly generous. As for the spirit of “charity”, I thought it was about giving to others, not oneself or ones own kind, whatever “kind” that is.

  54. More..

    Sofia KN, how would it look if white South Africans were shown to be extraordinarily generous to charities if it turned out that those charities were almost exclusively for the benefit of white people in need? You can bet your last dollar that it would arouse howls of derision, here on this blog and elsewhere.

  55. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 12:16 pm

    @Jemand. 12:04 pm

    “…I didn’t notice any comments on this page purporting that Cs and Js were particularly generous…”

    Not exactly, but when I quote Kropotkyn,

    “…The mutual-aid tendency in man has so remote an origin, and is so deeply interwoven with all the past evolution of the human race, that is has been maintained by mankind up to the present time, notwithstanding all vicissitudes of history….”

    the point that I clearly failed to get across was that the desire for mutual aid was pretty universal among people of all hues.

  56. Just a quick note to those here who care to know, JJ Cale has left the planet. Ticker stopped ticking but the music still plays on.

  57. Sofia KN, the ‘desire for mutal aid being universal among people of all hues’ is not a fact but wishful thinking. If it were true, we wouldn’t even be talking about it because this blog wouldn’t have a reason to exist.

  58. Are the Palestinians considered to be ‘citizens’? Will they get a vote?

    Israeli cabinet backs referendum bill for peace process
    Mr Netanyahu faces a tough task convincing colleagues on prisoner releases

    The Israeli cabinet has approved a bill requiring any peace deal with the Palestinians to be put to a referendum.

    A statement from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office said that it was “important that on such historic decisions every citizen should vote directly”.


  59. Sofia Kibo Noh

    28 Jul, 2013 - 12:42 pm


    I’d never claim the desire for mutual aid is the only one we have. Just that societies, to cohere and thrive, require a strong strand of co-operativeness.

  60. Jemand – Censorship Improves History 28 Jul, 2013 – 12:32 pm
    “…the ‘desire for mutal aid being universal among people of all hues’ is not a fact but wishful thinking.”

    From the off Darwin’s theories were (mis)represented as scientific rational for wealth division. i.e. That ruthless competition is ineviatable, essential, natural.

    Kropotkin was the first to point out that there is far more cooperation than competition in nature. That cooperation is a powerful evolutionary force. He also described a human history rich with cooperation.

    But a world of cooperation is hidden from us by those who sell war. Instead it’s all survival of the fittest, law of the jungle, dog eat dog etc. Attenborough is an uncompromising idealogical propagandist.

    But look around you. All that cooperation breaking out everywhere despite the propaganda. From the bacteria in your belly to the food bank down your street. We grew up being told that dogs and cats hate each other right? It’s not true!

  61. But charity does begin at home, with those who carry your genes.

    I know there are many exceptions proving the rule but never the less, it’s the egg that matters, chickens are just machines for making more eggs.

  62. Phil, I never denied a function of cooperation between animals, including humans. Nor did I endorse the opposite. The single biggest irritant I have found on this blog is the wilfull misrepresentation of commentator’s posts. After that, there is the ever present confusion of “is” with “should”. Despite several attempts to highlight this problem, it still remains.

    You write of there being more cooperation than competition in nature. I’d like to see some evidence of an objective measure of that. Whatever cooperation you can see is apparently either self-interested mutual assistance within a species, like we see in our friends the Meerkats*, or an unconcious symbiotic relationship between unlike species such as humans and bacteria.

    You cannot argue with any credibility, that there is an innate, human-like feeling of ‘goodness’ in the concious minds of micro-organisms, insects, fish, cats and other so-called lesser animals, that motivates them to be cooperative when the circumstances provide.

    And I am certainly well aware of extraordinary animal behaviour that sees vicious predators showing nurturing and caring towards other species that are *normally* their prey.

    So what has this got to do with reports of Muslims donating money to other Muslims and causes that have an Islamic self-interest? How generous do Muslims feel inclined to donate to Jewish causes or those that have no religious affiliations at all? We can ask the same questions about all other groups but my comment was directed towards the nonsensical implication in Someone’s comment that Muslims are demonstrably more generous people than others. There was no explanation or analysis accompanying that comment, just a smug implication. I showed that it was bullshit, and here we are discussing dogs and kittens…… ??????????

    As for your claim that (David?) Attenborough is a propagandist, I’m disappointed that you feel that way about a person who I regard as an extraordinary asset to your nation and its long history of documenting natural history. I see no political implications in his many of his documentaries except for the need to understand the enormous complexity of nature and the human tendency to destroy it. His doco on Climate Change, was excellent.

    *I saw a doco that showed how vicious Meerkats were to other (rival) families. Their competitive drive saw them attack each other, with targetted killing of their young. Do I think any less or more of them? No. But I have no illusions or gooey sentiments about the nature of survival.

  63. Fred, correct. We are all just machines finding new ways of surviving the day to lay another egg. Not a romantic vision of life, but then, why ‘should’ it be.

  64. “I never denied a function of cooperation between animals”

    And I didn’t mean to suggest you did. All I tried to say was your statement “mutual aid is wishfull thinking” is an overstated orthodoxy.

    Here’s another, very modern, example of cooperation to bring a smile to your face:

  65. OK I suppose there remains the remote possibility that attenborough is a patsy rather than a dastard.

    I really didn’t intend to misrepresent you I just want you to stop killing kittens with your hate mongering.

  66. Jemand, 9.20am

    Thanks. I think your reading of the earliest days of this whole sorry saga is the most likely scenario.

  67. Phil – “I really didn’t intend to misrepresent you I just want you to stop killing kittens with your hate mongering.”

    I’ve found other ways to kill kittens, Phil.

    A Public Awareness Message –

  68. “I’ve found other ways to kill kittens, Phil.”

    So it could be the RSPCA lobbying for filtering of the internet.

    I’d assumed it was one of the charities for the blind.

  69. Craig, you may be interested in a book by James Patrick, The rest is silence. It is about Tessa May, Tom Winsor and G4S and how they are all interwoven in the privatisation of the police service. May her husband and Winsor have financial links that should be exposed.

    James is a serving police officer with the Metropolitan police. He is under investigation by the Mets professional standards in relation to the content of the book. The content of which certain individuals don’t want exposed.

  70. Jemand – Censorship Improves History 28 Jul, 2013 – 2:15 pm

    “I saw a doco that showed how vicious Meerkats were to other (rival) families. Their competitive drive saw them attack each other, with targetted killing of their young.”

    For every example of conflict there is an example of cooperation, but conflict makes it on tv. Which is sort of the point.

    No one’s denying competiton and conflict. Just that our mainstream culture disproportionately emphasises competition over cooperation for ideological reasons.

  71. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:34 pm

    New perspective video of Hastings crash. What do you think? One explosion or two?

  72. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:36 pm

    @ Jemand :

    “but my comment was directed towards the nonsensical implication in Someone’s comment that Muslims are demonstrably more generous people than others.”

    Well, you’ll be happy to hear that I, at least, understood what your point was.

    I find interesting the (delicate? embarrassed?) silence when it transpired that most of the charity from Muslims went to Muslim causes and to promote Islam.

    Nothing wrong with that, of course, but I can imagine the sneers and howls of outrage if someone were to point out that most of Jewish charity work is directed towards Jewish causes. Indeed, poeple have alluded to this on various threads of this blog and kindly supplied their own sneers and howls of outrage justr in case. :)

  73. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:40 pm

  74. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:50 pm

  75. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version) 28 Jul, 2013 – 4:40 pm

    “You just need a laptop…

    The two research projects discussed on that link pretty much remove any doubt that cars can be hacked. Now all you need is a motive and you’ve found your killer(s).

  76. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 4:59 pm

    Did you review the video, Phil?

  77. “You just need a laptop….”

    Then you need to plug it into someone’s car and sit in the back seat without them noticing.

  78. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:04 pm

  79. Fred 28 Jul, 2013 – 5:00 pm
    “Then you need to plug it into someone’s car and sit in the back seat without them noticing.”

    Ben’s BBC link discussed that this research, to take control of vehicle functions, was built to complement previous research which gained remote access. Maybe someone is combining the two as we talk.

  80. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:08 pm

    Fred; There have been remotely-controlled model airplanes for decades. Commercial flights fly-by-wire. Pilots are just there to keep the passengers comfortable. You don’t see any remote-joystick capability on a car?

  81. “The two research projects discussed on that link pretty much remove any doubt that cars can be hacked. Now all you need is a motive and you’ve found your killer(s).”

    Of course cars can be hacked, I’ve hacked them myself, lots of people have, it’s never been any secret, the equipment has been for sale on ebay for years.

    Here, a step by step guide, spend 10 quid and hack your car.

  82. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:13 pm

    Oh sure. Now that the mobsters have culled their goods.

    “NICOSIA (Reuters) – Cyprus and its international lenders have agreed to convert 47.5 percent of deposits exceeding 100,000 euros in Bank of Cyprus to equity to recapitalize it, banking sources said on Sunday.

    Under a programme agreed between Cyprus and lenders in March, large depositors in Bank of Cyprus were earmarked to pay for the recapitalisation of the bank. Authorities initially converted 37.5 percent of deposits exceeding 100,000 euros into equity, and held an additional 22.5 percent as a buffer in the event of further needs.

    “There was an agreement concluding at a final figure of 47.5 percent this morning,” a source close to consultations told Reuters.”

  83. “One explosion or two?”

    No idea. Can’t tell.

  84. “a final figure of 47.5 percent”

    Bail ins, the new bail out. The laws are being put in place:

  85. @Ben

    Take a look at:

    That’s me saying it could be done before the first news report on the subject.

    It isn’t rocket science, it isn’t new, it isn’t a secret why all the hype?

  86. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:40 pm

    Fred; Do you have any opinions on the video? I have looked at many collisions on Youtube which show even slower speeds can result in a fireball. Since the tranny was found some 130 feet away it’s possible the fuel line being torn asunder would precipitate a fire, but some have speculated that for the trans to be carried that far the car would have to travel some 225 mph. My observation of the speed appears to be over 100, but not 225 which would be impossible even for the Benz.

  87. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 5:47 pm

  88. “Do you have any opinions on the video?”

    I don’t think it’s possible to ascertain much from the video, a car goes past and it crashes.

    I think there is a strong possibility he was whacked but that it is by no means certain.

    I believe in conspiracy theories, I’m just highly dubious of the people who believe all of them and the people who will believe in non.

  89. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 6:07 pm

    “But I’m not here to speak ill of the dead. I’m here to state that I’ve seen dozens of cars hit walls and stuff at high speeds and the number of them that I have observed to eject their powertrains and immediately catch massive fire is, um, ah, zero.

    Modern cars are very good at not catching fire in accidents. The Mercedes-Benz C-Class, which is an evolutionary design from a company known for sweating the safety details over and above the Euro NCAP requirements, should be leading the pack in the not-catching-on-fire category.”

  90. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 6:25 pm

    Three seconds more to get a fire with that ejected engine, Kempe.

  91. A couple of Mercs that have burst into flames.

    Cars do occasionally burst into flames after an accident whether the engine is ejected or not. Having the engine fly out and rip the fuel lines off would appear to make it more likely although by no means a certainty.

    Proving that something CAN be done is very different from proving that it WAS done. Any evidence that Hasting’s car was actually hacked?

  92. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 6:39 pm

    ” Any evidence that Hasting’s car was actually hacked?”

    None. But use your counter-intuitive research skills to give an explanation as to why so many intrusive journalists have died mysterious deaths with evidence collected from authorities similarly disposed to conspiracy theory.

  93. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 6:51 pm

  94. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 7:01 pm

    Israel Agrees Release Of Palestinian Prisoners
    The renewal of Middle East peace talks moves a step closer as Israel agrees the release of 104 Palestinian prisoners.

    Compare that number, 104, to the thousands detailed below.

    Statistics on Palestinians in the custody of the Israeli security forces.
    Updated: 25 Jul 2013

    At the end of June 2013, some 4,827 Palestinian security detainees and prisoners were held in Israeli prisons, 409 of them from the Gaza Strip. An additional 1,267 Palestinians were held in Israel Prison Service facilities for being in Israel illegally, 24 of them from the Gaza Strip. The IPS considers these Palestinians – both detainees and prisoners – criminal offenders. A few dozen other Palestinians (we do not have precise figures) are held in IDF facilities for short periods of time. The following data were provided by the military and by the IPS.
    + graph

  95. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 7:02 pm

  96. Kempe 28 Jul, 2013 – 6:28 pm
    “very different from proving that it WAS done”

    True. So one journalist, possibly with dynamite, dies suspiciously. Could be coincidence.

    I wonder if anyone has studied to see if ‘opposing the state’ is statistically over represented amongst unusual deaths. It would be an interesting yardstick.

  97. My guess is that the video of Hastings’ crash has been speeded up to make it look like the car was going faster than it was.

    As to deaths in crashes public figures are much more likely to die than ordinary individuals. It does need some thorough research but Hastings’ death was convenient, to say the least, for those he was investigating. Likewise Bob Cryer’s death was convenient for the US military at Menwith Hill. How dare Bob Cryer, an English MP, criticise the US for having a base on English soil without parliamentary approval?

  98. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 7:51 pm

    I was wondering when you would chime-in John. Now where is Trowbridge? :)

  99. “As to deaths in crashes public figures are much more likely to die than ordinary individuals.”

    What do you base that on john?

  100. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 7:55 pm

    Early with the sounds, eh Villager?

  101. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:00 pm

    Jack Bruce showing his complex bass riffs.

  102. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:05 pm

    Clapton, Sheryl Crow and David Sanborn.

    Make sure you don’t miss Sanborn’s solo.

  103. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:11 pm

    Oh, I see you didn’t intend to entertain, Villager. Sorry.

  104. How many times does an unlikely accident need to occur before it is accepted as having occurred in the eventuality of it actually occurring?

  105. @Ben

    Mississippi John Hurt, where it all began.

  106. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:43 pm

    @ Kempe :

    “Any evidence that Hasting’s car was actually hacked?”

    Shame on you for asking for something as banal as evidence, Kempe!

    Who needs evidence when you have…”counter-intuitive research skills” (cf Ben Franklin)? :)

  107. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:47 pm

    @ Ben Franklin

    “I could go on, and on and on….”

    And on past form, you almost certainly will…..

    Spare us!

  108. Flaming June

    28 Jul, 2013 - 8:54 pm

    This from a Medialens contributor is a e-mail which has been sent to Channel 4 News. They and Sky News have been putting out the most awful propaganda against North Korea. I have not seen any BBC Newa.

    Channel 4’s John Sparks on North Korea…short email
    Posted by Ed on July 28, 2013, 7:36 pm

    Mr Sparks,
    In a Britain where the msm have just produced and indulged in an excruciating bout of royal sycophancy, and in a Britain where hundreds of thousands of people are relying on food banks to keep themselves and their children fed, and in a Britain whose government is intent on spending tens of billions on Trident (which incidentally goes against the NPT which promotes steps towards disarmament and prohibits replacing or renewing existing nuclear weapons systems), and in a Britain that is becoming increasingly militaristic (just take a look at the heavy military presence at any major sporting event these days), you see fit to write a piece on North Korea (1) brimming with self righteous indignation:

    “ oversized shrine to the North Korean military in the heart of the capital Pyongyang…the Victorious Fatherland Liberation War Museum is decorated with colossal Soviet-style art, depicting battle scenes from the Korean war…The complex is flanked by pavilions displaying North Korean armaments and I asked myself a simple question – how much did all this cost? In a nation that struggles to feed its own people – something North Korea blames on international sanctions and western hostility – it seemed an extraordinary use of resources…This public display of firepower along with the squadrons of near-hysterical citizens pledging their loyalty to the regime was designed to make a definite impression – an impression of strength at home and abroad.”

    You also say:
    “I admire the North Koreans for being brave enough to let people like me in but we cannot stop being journalists.”

    Do you ever listen to yourself?

    Ed Murray.

    (1)Four days in North Korea – a ‘chasm’ away from rest of world

  109. It’s probably much more important that people are prepared to believe and indeed act on their belief, that the US, its agents or familiars etc would whack someone like Hastings, than it is to prove that he was in fact whacked.

    Sure, some will argue that definitive proof of Hastings having been whacked ought to play heavily into the former project, but Chomsky and many others have been exposing the difference between state claims and actions for years, with little noticeable impact on these states.

    There’s an interesting discussion of these different approaches at Medialens:

    and in the original article here:

  110. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:00 pm

    @ Phil :

    ““a final figure of 47.5 percent”

    Bail ins, the new bail out. The laws are being put in place:

    So you would prefer the ordinary taxpayer to continue taking the hit in the event of any future bank bail-outs?


  111. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:05 pm

    As usual our favorite advocate for the State, has nothing substantive to provide. But he is the’ best heckler ‘ known to the world of stand-up comedians.

  112. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:07 pm

    The implication of Mr Ed Murray’s email, brought to our attention by the Frequent Poster at 20h54, would seem to be that North Korea should not be criticised by the western media because of the existence of food banks and Trident in the UK.

    An interesting – but rather silly – point of view.

  113. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:09 pm

    @ Ben Franklin

    “As usual our favorite advocate for the State, has nothing substantive to provide”

    And what do you have to provide by way of evidence?

    Oh, I know – “counter-intuitive research skills”!

  114. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:12 pm

    redundant heckling.

  115. Habby performs the function here of op-ed columns. Every event which might reasonably be expected to undermine states’ propaganda is twisted, turned, and sanitised until it can be squeezed back into the propaganda hole.

    Don’t care if they’re square pegs, round pegs, oblong pegs, whatever. They’ll all fit the same hole.

    The op-ed’s job is simply to ensure they fit the hole, no matter what!

    Don’t even matter how much you have to embarrass yourself in the process. The money takes care of that.

    “It’s hard to get someone to understand something when their salary depends on their not understanding it.”

  116. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:20 pm

    “They’ll all fit the same hole.”

    I see what you’re saying. ‘Sphincter says, what?’

  117. Jemand:

    “So it’s not hard to see that donations were not just to “charities” but to organisations that promote Islam and the interests of Muslims.”

    The entire Taliban, ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are financed by massive ‘charitable donations’ from Saudi Arabia.

    In this day and age it is hardly surprising to learn that Muslims donate more than others. Can we know how much of this is going towards fighting Jihad in various conflicted areas?

    In history it is probably true that Christians have killed more fellow human beings than any other religion. With the concept of Jihad (and with GWB having called for a War on Terror and turned Al Qaida from a limited organisation into a phenomenon), its now the turn of the Muslims. Moreover because of the Wahhabi/Salafist divide with those more willing to embrace secularism at least at a political level (eg Turkey), and because of the Sunni and Shia (and others) divide they are also killing each other in compounded numbers. There is undoubtedly a problem within the scriptures that lends itself to divisiveness and conflict. Christianity as a whole may have exhausted itself and even ‘matured’, its Islam’s turn now. Though i reject all so-called organised religions (you cannot organise the Truth), Asiatic religions still have a healthier attitude in the negation of killing other human beings, but they are doing it too, although not quite so spectacularly.

  118. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:24 pm

    “The government said it would begin a pilot in November to impose visa restrictions on six Commonwealth nations, including India and Nigeria, even though David Cameron poured cold water on the scheme in June after it provoked uproar in Delhi.

    Luxury goods retailers have denounced the plan as an “insulting deterrent” to wealthy tourists, which will hit sales and damage London’s reputation. They are urging the government to drop the pilot, saying the restrictions will damage their business if Commonwealth tourists – particularly Nigerians, now the sixth biggest spenders on luxury goods in the UK – are put off.”

    What an egregiously silly argument, and I’m glad that the Frequent Poster, who brought it to our attention, agrees with me.

    This entry deposit is unlikely to put off wealthy Nigerians from coming to London and buying luxury goods. They have the money to pay for the bond and have no intention of illegally staying on in the UK.

    And even if it did put them off, surely we should not be defending the right of wealthy Nigerians to come to London to spend their ill-gotten gains, nor the right of expensive London stores to relieve those wealthy Nigerians of their ill-gotten gains?

    Is there a Zionist angle to all of this?

  119. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:32 pm

    @ Herbie:

    Abuse and supposition are no substitute for argument and evidence.

    A truth which some of the Eminences – including, unfortunately, you – still have to learn.

    And now, stop bickering.


    But not general agreement on this blog.

  121. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:34 pm

  122. doug scorgie

    28 Jul, 2013 - 9:44 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    26 Jul, 2013 – 10:25 pm

    “who on this blog comments on political,, social or human rights abuses in Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, North Korea, Venezuela, Ecuador, Zimbabwe, South Africa and various corrupt and despotic African countries?”

    Habbabkuk, if you want to start a discussion about political, social or human rights abuses in ANY country please do so.

    Perhaps there could meaningful intercourse on the subject.

    The ball is in your court if you want to serve.

  123. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    28 Jul, 2013 - 10:12 pm

    @ Doug Scorgie

    No, Doug, not trying to start a discussion. I was just wondering why the Eminences are so vocal about human rights in the US and the west in general (and human rights abuses perpetrated by these countries elsewhere) but remain rather silent when it comes to human rights abuses perpetrated by other countries.

    Have you any idea why this should be so?

  124. My post yesterday about Agent Cameron’s intention to impose a tourist bond was purely a extract from a Financial Times article, ie a statement of fact.

    I expressed no opinion on the imposition of the bond, contrary to what the Resident Invigilator is claiming above.

  125. Silly pictures of a silly man on holiday. Looks like a photo op. The photos were taken by Associated Press.

  126. Habby, add Saudi Arabia to your list — one of the more mischievous countries on Earth, rarely mentioned on this blog. What is their relationship to Palestine? Why haven’t they with all their money and power derived from their US collaborators, been able to foster an Israeli-Palestine peace? Anyone?

  127. Agent Cameron’s side kick Cleggover seems to think he can live the high life at our expense. When will be shot of these creeps?

    Nick Clegg refused to pay his bar bill for thousands of pounds at grace-and-favour home… and thinks you should pick up the tab: Row erupts over Lib Dem leader’s lavish entertaining

    Nick Clegg shares Chevening, in Kent, with the Foreign Secretary
    Landowner Edward Barham complained after Mr Clegg objected to the bill
    The complaint led to negotiations with Mr Clegg who paid most of the tab
    The taxpayer was left to foot the rest of the bill from Cabinet Office coffers
    Mr Clegg earns £134,000 a year and his wife Miriam is paid up to £500,000

  128. Phil @ 7.54 pm. There is a 1 in 7000 chance of dying in an air or space incident according to:

    Taking the years 2001-2010 based on this Wikipedia link of air-crashes involving famous deaths:

    2001 = 13
    2002 = 05
    2003 = 02
    2004 = 05
    2005 = 03
    2006 = 06
    2007 = 06
    2008 = 03
    2009 = 08
    2010 = 03 (In one of these crashes in 2010 the polish prime minister, his wife and members of the cabinet were killed). But leaving that aside, and the fact that these figures are included below, in total there were 54 crashes with famous fatalities)

    Fatalities in air crashes

    2001 = 4140
    2002 = 1413
    2003 = 1230
    2004 = 771
    2005 = 1459
    2006 = 1294
    2007 = 971
    2008 = 884
    2009 = 1103
    2010 = 1115

    Total = 14,380

    Multiplying the under-representative number of famous people 54 by 7000 gives:

    Total = 378,000

    Like I said it does “need some thorough research” so if you have any figures showing that this is a miscalculation I should be happy to consider them.

  129. Forgot to put in the link for the second set of figures.

  130. Habby argues:

    “The implication of Mr Ed Murray’s email, brought to our attention by the Frequent Poster at 20h54, would seem to be that North Korea should not be criticised by the western media because of the existence of food banks and Trident in the UK.”

    Surely the point of Mr Ed Murray’s email is to show that this hack, who writes so scathingly of N Korea, has not and would never write in such terms about the UK.

    A similar acusation, I might add, that you’ve levelled at regulars here, regularly.

    So, further to my post above @9.15pm, which you derided as bickering, here’s a fine example of your good self trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole.

    Others will just call it hypocrisy, but I think my post above has it bang to rights.

  131. Someone
    27 Jul, 2013 – 4:13 pm

    “Brighton man faces jail for calling Hove MP Mike Weatherley ‘coward’”

    Yes Someone, Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 is a catch all law that has been misused by the police and state numerous times for over 20 years.

    The same law was used against David Lawley-Wakelin who interrupted the Leveson inquiry when Blair was giving “evidence”.

    Blair didn’t press charges but that paragon of justice Leveson did.

    What a twat!

    There was no use of bad language or adjectives of swearing. There was no actual threat made to Mr Blair on anyone else.

    It was Lord Leveson who had pushed for prosecution.

    Freedom of speech?

    You can say what you like as long as no one disagrees with you and calls the police.

  132. The biggest number of plane crash deaths in 2001 involved the twin towers. I do not know of any celebrities who were killed in the event. Does anybody?

    I came across this:

    And Donna Summers believed dust from 9/11 led to her death.

    If there were no famous people deaths caused by 9/11 it would bear out the expected figure of 1 in 7000 but be anomalous to airplane crash figures presented in my comment above.

  133. Less than 3000 signatures and there will be 100,000 people nominating Bradley Manning for the Nobel Peace Prize. Please help this good young man.

  134. This “peace” initiative by sewage satanyahu,hostages being freed and all,what really lies behind it? That he has messianic delusions about being remembered as another expansionist hero like dayan is known, but what is his target? Methinks its an expansion up to the Litani River, to include both Syrian and Lebanese territory. The evil seed of the irgun,haganah and stern gangs (who invented the hotel and car bombs way back in the 1940s as we know them today.BTW-the mossad motorcycle assassin is a fairly recent innovation)who are at the heart of zionistani politics,may yet surprise us. But it will have to put Lavon,USS Liberty,Argentina,911 capers to shame, to get past the hawk eyed internet community that is no longer swayed by the MSM harps. But their devilish cunning and deception may finally only be stymied by a whistleblower like in the Barksdale nuclear saga.

  135. “If there were no famous people deaths caused by 9/11 it would bear out the expected figure of 1 in 7000 but be anomalous to airplane crash figures presented in my comment above.”

    Barbara Olson.

  136. “Silly pictures of a silly man on holiday” noticed by a silly mind that takes the silly action of posting them here for her assumed silly friends.

    Subtle propagation of silliness from silly ego-centred mechanical activity jumping from silliness to silliness without any responsibility to one’s own self-created silliness.

    Silliness is not an abstract, it is personified. Only self-awareness can end it.

    One letter in and one letter out gives you Stillness — then respond/go from there and a whole new creative way of life might just emerge. Try it!

  137. Flaming June
    27 Jul, 2013 – 11:07 pm

    Theresa May has had Type 1 diabetes diagnosed.–vows-continue-political-career.html

    “Theresa May reveals she has Type 1 diabetes and needs daily injections… but vows to continue her political career.”

    She makes it sound like a terminal illness.

    “Type 1 diabetes, a chronic illness, carries a risk of heart attacks and strokes.”

    So does being poor!

    I have been a type1 diabetic for the past 30 years and I have 5 injections and 6 blood-glucose tests a day. It’s something you have to get used to.

    I wonder how much she got paid for her story.

  138. “I wonder how much she got paid for her story.”

    You’ll never know that, but what you can know is that it appeared here for free.

  139. Btw, Doug, try fenugreek seeds — they are supposed to be bitter and counter the action of sugar. Please do research it. Probably won’t cure since its well-entrenched but may alleviate gradually.

  140. Villager says, of some Daily Mail story that Mary posted:

    “You’ll never know that, but what you can know is that it appeared here for free.”

    Who would say that?

    It’s kinda like a knee-jerk defence of old media.

    So, who would say that?

  141. Ben now its entertainment time. Nico’s on my mind with mind, mellowness and melody:

    I’ll be your Mirror NICO 1966 Warhol video

    These days

  142. “Who would say that?

    It’s kinda like a knee-jerk defence of old media.

    So, who would say that?”

    Midnight excitability? Don’t know what you’re going on about. I said it appeared in CM’s blog for free. What you smoking? Pass the joint around…

  143. FFS all this Villager babbling its all krishnamurphy to me !

  144. Good Hasbeen have another machiato!

  145. Fred, thank you for that. It still fits the 1 in 7000 criterion. I also notice she died in the Pentagon attack and not the twin towers!

  146. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:13 am

    “My post yesterday about Agent Cameron’s intention to impose a tourist bond was purely a extract from a Financial Times article, ie a statement of fact.”

    Quite, which is why I wrote :

    “What an egregiously silly argument, and I’m glad that the Frequent Poster, WHO BROUGHT IT TO OUR ATTENTION..”

    “I expressed no opinion on the imposition of the bond,…”

    And nor did I say that you did (although you are on record here as opposing it). But I assume you would agree with me on the silliness/selfishness of the position taken by London’s retailers of luxury goods, surely?

    And now please stop bickering.

  147. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:18 am

    SFO to receive funding for Barclays probe – FT

    Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:16am BST

    (Reuters) – Britain’s Serious Fraud Office (SFO) is expected to receive about 2 million pounds from the UK Treasury to support its criminal probe into the dealings between Barclays Plc and Qatar Holding, the Financial Times reported on Sunday.

    Barclays is being investigated by the SFO and Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) for an allegation that the bank lent Qatar Holding, a part of the Qatar Investment Authority, money to invest in it as part of a rescue fundraising at the height of the 2008 financial crisis.

    UK rules forbid a public company from giving financial assistance in order to acquire its shares or those of a parent company.

    The bank has been deeply investigated by the FCA, which is now taking a back seat with the SFO probing into other parts of the fundraising, the FT said, citing people familiar with the matter.

    A treasury spokesperson and the SFO declined to comment on the matter, while Barclays was not available for comments outside regular business hours.

    David Green, the head of the SFO, has said he expects to secure extra funding from the government for some complex investigations, partly because the agency’s annual budget has been slashed to around 30 million pounds – a fraction of the budget of some regional police forces.

    Green, who has said he hopes for progress in the Barclays investigation by year end, is already receiving more than 3 million pounds per year in extra government funding the help with the largest and most complex inquiry on his books – the investigation into Libor rate rigging.

    Some lawyers have argued that this so-called ‘surge’ or ‘blockbuster’ funding for specific investigations risks undermining the independence of the SFO, which is battling to restore faith in its crime-busting abilities.

    Barclays, which publishes financial results on Tuesday, is expected to set out plans either to sell bonds that are wiped out if it hits trouble or to raise equity to meet tougher UK rules on capital.

  148. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:21 am

    A split emerges between Cable and the May cohort of right wingers.

    Vince Cable today attacked Tory colleagues for launching a “stupid and offensive” crackdown on illegal immigrants and accused them of being obsessed with migration figures.

    The Business Secretary said Immigration Minister Mark Harper’s decision to send vans bearing the message “go home, or you’ll be picked up and deported” round London was designed to create fear among the public.


  149. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:33 am

    @ Doug Scorgie (23h53 yesterday):

    “I wonder how much she { ie, Theresa May }got paid for her story.”

    May I remind Doug of his request posted on the “getting back into the water” thread at 21h06 on 26 July, which read as follows :

    “When putting points of view forward your opinions must be supported; you should produce your evidence and explain why this evidence supports your point of view; if used, you should always quote sources and give references”.

    Off you go, laddy.

  150. @FJ – signs of an early election, the Torah Party is simply in your face electioneering on its main plank immigration platform with tax payers money. With satanyahu formulating “referendum” laws well in advance of never to be undertaken bogus “road map” peace negotiations,definitely some surprise coming up.

  151. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 7:41 am

    Access to the law is now definitely only available to the well off.

    Legal aid cut and judicial reviews cut.

    Funding to go to a tribunal is cut.

    Fees for employment tribunals begin
    The fees were first proposed by the chancellor two years ago

    People bringing employment tribunals must now pay a fee for the first time since they were created in the 1960s.

    Under the new UK rules, they will have to pay £160 or £250 to lodge a claim, with a further charge of either £230 or £950 if the case goes ahead.

    The higher charges will cover cases like unfair dismissal, the lower ones issues such as unpaid invoices.



    Doug Scorgie I attended the Magistrates’ Court when David Lawley Wakelin was fined and convicted. He lives in Shepperton yet they used a shabby looking court miles away in NW London. A decent man who now has a criminal record cycled there. A travesty as you say. The only amusement was the evidence from his protection plods who had not secured a back door into the court entrance behind Leveson. Thick as the proverbial short planks and it gave encouragement to the thought that one day B.Liar will be arrested for his major crimes.

    Meanwhile, he still roams the planet increasing his wealth. I read the other day that he made £170,000 on the sale of a house that has been bought for one of the sons.

  152. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:00 am

    @ Doug Scorgie :

    27 Jul, 2013 – 4:13 pm

    “Brighton man faces jail for calling Hove MP Mike Weatherley ‘coward’”

    Yes Someone, Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 is a catch all law that has been misused by the police and state numerous times for over 20 years.

    The same law was used against David Lawley-Wakelin who interrupted the Leveson inquiry when Blair was giving “evidence”.”

    Well, I thought the discussion was supposed to be about the Weatherley case, but I have no objection to Mr Scorgie raising the Lawley-Wakelin case if he feels it’s relevant to the Weatherley case.

    Mr Lawley-Wakelin had – and continues to have – numerous possibilities of making plain his feelings about BLiar other than by disrupting a judicial public inquiry in which, by the way, he had no locus.

    Presumably Mr Scorgie would not condone disruption of – to take just a few examples – ordinary court proceedings, religious services, public inquiries and meetings on university campuses. If this assumption is incorrect then it would be interesting to hear more from him on the subject.

    Free speech, it could be argued, does not give every Tom, Dick or Harry the absolute right to shout whatever he wants whenever he wants. That sort of behaviour should be confined – rightly – to blogs such as this one?

    Any way, to get back to the Brighton/Weatherley case: as we’ve had no response from the original poster on whether he would be disposed to follow up on that case and report back, perhaps Mr Scorgie could volonteer to do so? It would be interesting to see what happens in court and whether the alleged disrupter (Mr Cline) is found guilty or acquitted by the magistrates.

    Free speech operates within the confines of law in all countries.

  153. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:03 am

    I see that Villager replied to my deliberate ‘silly’ post by indulging in some more of his silly preaching. Surely he knows it is the silly season!

  154. Sofia Kibo Noh

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:07 am

    @Doug and Flaming

    Do you detect the sound of barrels being scraped in far-off Haifa?

    Would you like to help restore Team Hasbarakuk’s “skill and strategies for public diplomacy”?

    Yes? Then wish no more. Just click and get started on a wonderful new career.

  155. Doug Scorgie at 9:44 pm:

    “Habbabkuk, if you want to start a discussion about political, social or human rights abuses in ANY country please do so. Perhaps there could meaningful intercourse on the subject.”

    There would be little point in that, Doug. What would inevitably happen would be that a Murrayista would find some instance of Western support for that country’s regime in the past, or blame the situation on colonialism, and the finger of blame would be pointed straight back at the West!

  156. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:23 am

    Bradley Manning’s ‘trial’ contd.

    Hanging judge, kangaroo court, etc etc.

    “The Government has pushed this case beyond the bounds of legal propriety. If the Government meant ‘information’, it should have charged information,” explains defense attorney David Coombs in legal filings last week.

    Two years ago, Army PFC Bradley Manning was charged with five counts of stealing government property, in violation of federal statute 18 U.S.C. 641. He faces 21 total charges for providing WikiLeaks with classified information at the court martial entering its final stage. After the Government rested its case against PFC Manning, defense lawyer David Coombs detailed how the evidence presented did not support those five 18 U.S.C. 641 charges. He appealed to military judge Col. Denise Lind to dismiss them outright; however, she let them stand. Shockingly, she then stepped away from her role as the “finder of fact,” and into a clearly partisan role by allowing the Government to significantly alter its charges on July 24, 2013–long after all legal arguments had been made.


    Transcripts here

  157. Sofia Kibo Noh

    29 Jul, 2013 - 8:36 am

    @Anon. 8 11am


    You got it in a nutshell.

    “…the finger of blame would be pointed straight back at the West!”

    Now that you are, at last, getting the the hang of explaining how the New World Disorder works I’m off to enjoy the outdoors, secure in the knowledge that you can explain to Dad the futility of genuine debate.

  158. One of H’s recurrent questions, replayed above:

    I was just wondering why the Eminences are so vocal about human rights in the US and the west in general (and human rights abuses perpetrated by these countries elsewhere) but remain rather silent when it comes to human rights abuses perpetrated by other countries.

    Have you any idea why this should be so?

    1. Because these are our countries and their allies, and the abuses are conducted in our name. We object.
    2. Because, by and large we are better informed on these countries, being residents of them, and have no desire to expose our ignorance of others.
    3. Because we are actively interested in specific countries or regions. Our choice, not yours.

    Any permutation or combination of the above.

    And do feel free to post your informed thoughts on Eritrea/Somalia/Azerbaijan/wherever. With references or other salient evidence. How do you view Mugabe’s forthcoming inevitable election? What is the price of wheat in Belorus? And, if you can bring yourself to so much as consider the matter, do you think it even possible that the imminent talks between the Israeli Palestinians and the Israeli Zionists in New York will end in something other than complete failure, and why?

    So many questions. But we Eminences note that you excrescences don’t even try to do answers. Let alone justify them.


  159. Flaming June, And they changed their own laws to hold Bradley Manning in prison longer than was legal. The United States has no sense of what is legal any more. I feel sorry for its people.

  160. Komodo, thanks. I echo that view. Last night Phil @ 7.54 pm asked me what figures I had to justify my conclusion that famous people were much more likely to die in crashes than ordinary individuals. I put together some figures that showed that famous people were 26 times more likely to die in plane crashes than what would be expected. Nobody commented probably because they do not want to bring attention to the fact that my conclusion was right and that is one of the reasons why we should stop going off at a tangent to feed the trolls.

  161. Sofia Kibo Noh

    29 Jul, 2013 - 9:09 am

    John Goss
    28 Jul, 2013 – 10:33 pm

    Re famous People are 26 times more likely to die in plane accidents.

    Thanks for doing the research.

    The trolls won’t answer because they can’t, but I’ve glad they sent you off on that productive tangent. Your effort wasn’t wasted.

    Now I’m definitely off out for the day.

  162. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 9:17 am

    I echo Sofia’s comment John. Thanks.

  163. Thanks for the link to Shagirim, Sophia. I note that one of the Ambassadors is a Mr. Stuart Palmer, who is also involved in the Coalition of Hasbara Volunteers …(you’d really think that ‘Hasbara’ is getting to be such a dirty word, they’d think of a new euphemism, but no)

    My enthusiasm for defending the destruction of Palestinian crops, the construction of new settlements for Americans and Europeans ‘returning’ to the land G-d and Lloyd George so generously gave them, for live trials of new weaponry on a nearby ghetto new homeland for non-Jews, and all the other wonderful things Israel does, led me further:

    He even likes Melanie Phillips. And pro-Israel propaganda (sic). Er. Stuart, we don’t actually call it that, do we? Or have we suddenly discovered honesty?

    If you would like to become involved in pro-Israel propaganda contact Stuart Palmer, Director Blog (redacted) Tel (redacted) , Mobile (redacted) Email:(redacted)

    Redactions by me -K

  164. ‘Destabilize, demoralize and dismantle’. That is the ConDem plan for the NHS.

    NHS Direct seeks to completely pull out of the 111 service. So what happens next?

  165. Thanks Sofia and Flaming June. I got a blog out of the work.

  166. Jonathan Cook on the Guardian and Palestinian refugees

  167. Useful point, Dreoilin. And one which had escaped me.

    UNRWA is a United Nations agency established by the General Assembly in 1949 and is mandated to provide assistance and protection to a population of some 5 million registered Palestine refugees. Its mission is to help Palestine refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, West Bank and the Gaza Strip to achieve their full potential in human development, pending a just solution to their plight. UNRWA’s services encompass education, health care, relief and social services, camp infrastructure and improvement, and microfinance.

    Financial support to UNRWA has not kept pace with an increased demand for services caused by growing numbers of registered refugees, expanding need, and deepening poverty. As a result, the Agency’s General Fund (GF), supporting UNRWA’s core activities and 97 per cent reliant on voluntary contributions, has begun each year with a large projected deficit. Currently the deficit stands at US$ 58.5 million.

  168. More than 99,000 signatures on the Nobel Peace Prize for Bradley Manning campaign. The support is phenomenal.

  169. Any applicants? £60k

    MI5’s Mystery Ad For Health And Safety Chief

    The security service wants someone to ensure its operations are safe but candidates will hardly be told any details about the job.


    There are sixteen current vacancies

  170. Garda Karmi and B.Liar’s stooge Lord Levy! on the ‘peace’ talks. Radio 4 Today this am.

  171. “Father of Edward Snowden issues open letter to Obama denouncing “Orwellian surveillance programs””

  172. 2hrs 50mins in on

    On the same topic and later in the programme.

    Israeli and Palestinian negotiators are to resume stalled peace talks in Washington on Monday, the US State Department has announced. Bronwen Maddox, a British-based Anglo-American journalist, and Simon Tisdall, an assistant editor at the Guardian, discuss how effective the talks will be.

  173. “Lord Levy”

    “Chai Patel (1.5m), Sir David Garrard (1m) and Barry Townsley (1m) all gave this money to Lord Levy (Blair’s bagman). It has now been revealed that over £14 million in loans was raised by Levy before the 2005 election.”

  174. Komodo says:

    Because these are our countries and their allies, and the abuses are conducted in our name. We object.

    An excellent observation. Throughout this thread and others too, the hasbara vermin constantly point out the same feeble, weak, inane propositions; why don’t you talk about this abuse, instead of that?

    Further, these foreign interests pedler brigade, constantly refer to the West as an extension of their own property, as manifested by the disdain that is apportioned to anyone of us who wish to put our own house in order!

    These pissant foreign support elements verily believe we are tenets in our own lands in the West,. Hence, in a fashion after their treatment of the Palestinians, these hasbara vermin decry our attempts making our lands a better place to live in . It is high time that these elements were reminded, that our gracious tolerance in allowing these foreign interest pedlers to comment on matters concerning our own affairs, somehow does not imply ownership of the West and matters thereof to these neo settlers.

    You nave raised very good points, and these points should be elaborated further, and more comprehensively in a rebuttal to the constant of torrent of the evident disdain at directed at those who are intent on making the West a better place. Further, it should be explained that the simple assumption of these hasbara vermin being; anyone who criticises them must be a “Muslim”, “Arab”, …. etc. is the basis for these neo settlers to dream of owning the West!

  175. Was posting this when my “internet service provider” chopped me off suddenly. Maybe something to do with the thunder, lightning and heavy rain!

    “Thousands of birds in UK zoos are victims of ‘pinioning’, a practice where the end of one wing is permanently amputated. Pinioned goosePinioning is carried out on baby birds at only a few days old, usually without any pain relief. Why? To prevent them from escaping from captivity and so zoo visitors can get close to them. These birds will be disabled for life and will never fly.

    “Add your name to the petition below to demand an end to this cruel practice and to tell the zoo industry and the government: Mutilating any animal to keep them in captivity is never acceptable!”

  176. WRONG.

    Plays into the enemy’s hands, and makes you look insecure, Hamas. Revoke the ban immediately. Even if the item is malicious Saudi/Fatah propaganda.

  177. Unexplained death of “white hat” hacker

    Famed hacker Barnaby Jack dies a week before hacking convention

  178. Flaming June

    29 Jul, 2013 - 1:20 pm

    The witch is dead!

    BREAKING NEWS:Lady Thatcher’s funeral cost taxpayers £1.2 million, according to figures released by the government

    I would have dig a hole here for a fiver and she could have laid alongside the remains of two dear cats and two dear dogs.

  179. “Obama’s SEAL Team 6 Coverup – Explosive Paul Craig Roberts Interview”


    Indyk. Who he? Oh, yes…

    After the spectacular failure of Camp David negotiations that he helped conduct in 2000, Indyk was characterized by former Palestinian negotiator Mohammed Dahlan as having a pro-Israel bias and “advanced negative attitudes toward Palestinians.”

    While former Palestinian negotiator Nabil Shaath said that Indyk was “partial, biased, pro-Israel” and defended Israeli settlements more than Israelis did.

    Just the man.

  181. NSA Director = Bilderberg attendee

  182. Dreoilin 29 Jul, 2013 – 1:27 pm
    “NSA Director = Bilderberg attendee

    The source of the claim on that link seems to be an unattributed list of names provided by alex jones.

  183. You might like this better, Phil-

    Looks unimpeachable to me, but maybe it’s a forgery?

    Mandelson and Shell figure prominently too.

  184. Mandelson was there this year, too, in exactly the same influence-sucking an entirely different capacity. Ed Balls also outed as a globalist. Labour, eh? Gotta love them.

    This year’s list:

  185. Hmmm. Not completely disabled then?

    I’ll check back in a while and see if the report’s still there….

  186. doug scorgie

    29 Jul, 2013 - 2:18 pm

    Flaming June
    28 Jul, 2013 – 12:36 pm

    “Are the Palestinians considered to be ‘citizens’? Will they get a vote?”

    “Israeli cabinet backs referendum bill for peace process”

    “The Israeli cabinet has approved a bill requiring any peace deal with the Palestinians to be put to a referendum.”

    Mary, Palestinians living in Israel (“proper”) will get to vote.

    No Palestinians in the West Bank will be able to vote. However all Jewish settlers in the west bank will have the vote.

    That’s Israeli democracy for you.

  187. Thanks Komodo.
    I can’t check – my connection’s too wonky;

  188. Komodo 29 Jul, 2013 – 2:03 pm
    “You might like this better, Phil-”

    I wonder where these lists come from. Are there any attendance lists whose provenance is endorsed by someone we might trust?

    Both the official lists I looked at lack all the military/spooks names that the unofficial lists have.

    According to foi request doc from the us gov, the general secretary of the tuc attended in 1996:

  189. Dreoilin at 12.39 pm.

    Signed and spread.

  190. Ok, the nsa director alexander is listed on the official bilderberg list for 2012:

  191. Are there any attendance lists whose provenance is endorsed by someone we might trust?

    Depends who you trust, doesn’t it? And where you find the endorsement. F’rinstance if I found a authentic-looking mediaeval document outlining the early history of the Illuminati lizards on the David Icke site, with the annotation, “This document has been verified and is confirmed genuine by Jesus Christ”, my disbelief would be automatic. But there’s no particular reason to lie about Alexander’s attendance at Bilderberg – he seems like a probable attendee, indeed – and less still to forge document facsimiles, such as the one I linked, to encourage that belief. The balance of probability is that he was, IMO. That’s my null hypothesis. Got a better one? Tell us, with at least as much adduced evidence, please.

    Personally, I’m much more worried that oleaginous crawling vermin like Mandelson are encouraged (it’s by invitation) to promote their personal agendas at these functions. Someone whose record is an unbroken catalogue of policies adopted and actions taken in his own interest alone is not someone I like to think is influencing global events in any way at all.

Powered By Wordpress | Designed By Ridgey | Produced by Tim Ireland | Hosted In The Cloud