Air Disaster 530

Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.

We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.

What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.

530 thoughts on “Air Disaster

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  • Mary

    Much sympathy for the Dutch who have the largest number of casualties.

    Mr Timmermans was going OTT at the UN. The passengers were dead or unconscious as soon as the cabin pressure went. They would not have been able to do any of the things he speaks of here. 1 minute

  • Sofia

    An intesting comment thread here re Russian Military press conference,


    T S said…
    Why are all of you relying on the interpreter? The writing is in Russian, the picture is from the military. The aircraft that the Russian military put forth is a SU-24, not the SU-25.

    Consider that the SU-24 is more than capable to be rigged to carry a SA-11 and has electronic counter measures (the disappearance to civilian radars). Please note the US first made note of the SA-11 launch and could not back the launch area. Then there is the observed ‘double tap’ of the stricken aircraft on the way down by the farmer on his tractor and others. There are leaks from inside the US intel community as if it was a rouge operation and add the SA-11 parts transiting Finland to an Eastern Ukraine location. Put those together. That’s a good start for the UN investigation.

  • Johnstone

    Quite right Sofia its everyone’s responsibility

    Are we supposed to just roll over and believe what these serial liars tell us through their media empires and pretend that the same serial liars are not more our responsibility than anyone elses?

    ‘ MH17 flight from Amsterdam shot down by pro Russian militia’,
    MH17 / Malaysia Airlines 2014-07-17Amsterdam (AMS) Kuala Lumpur (KUL)B772 (9MMRD)10:00 UTC-22:10 UTC Canceled

    Along with the strange photos that you and others have written about here does this seem to suggest a lie in its entirety? No flight MH17? No flight path? No diversion? No missile(s)?

    Sound familiar???

  • Peacewisher

    @Sofia: That is SOME blog! I particularly like the bit about Putin, the rational, not getting it that the neocons are working along a completely different paradigm… the paradigm of “perception is everything” outlined by Tony Blair at the Chilcot Inquiry. I don’t think a world-leader like Putin would be that blind-sided, but he was persuaded to help to make Tony Blair Middle-East Envoy.

  • Peacewisher

    @Johnstone: Well it didn’t reach its destination so of course it was canceled! Nothing unusual there. What’s your point?

  • fred

    “Consider that the SU-24 is more than capable to be rigged to carry a SA-11”

    How would that work then? The SA-11 is a surface to air missile, how could you rig a bomber to launch it?

  • Dreoilin


    “Dutch forensic team ‘impressed’ by work at MH17 crash site”

    21 July 2014 Last updated at 18:06 BST

    “The leader of a Dutch forensics team has said he was impressed with the work done at the site of the MH17 airliner crash in Ukraine.

    Forensics expert Peter Van Vliet said: “I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place”.

    Pro-Russian rebels have allowed bodies from the Malaysia Airlines plane crash to be taken to the city of Kharkiv.”

    I’m gone!

  • Sofia

    Fred. 11 54am

    “The SA-11 is a surface to air missile, how could you rig a bomber to launch it?”

    Yes, that’s what I thought.

    Is there anyone around who can give a credible answer as to whether or not it is possible to rig SA-11s to Su 24 rails?

  • fred

    “Is there anyone around who can give a credible answer as to whether or not it is possible to rig SA-11s to Su 24 rails?”

    I’m not an expert but I know enough to know it wouldn’t be just a matter of strapping a SA-11 to a SU-24 wing. There would be a hell of a lot more to it than that. How would they launch it? How would they guide it till it could lock on with it’s own radar?

  • Johnstone

    WS3102 flight history 2014-07-22Victoria (YYJ)Vancouver (YVR)-14:10-14:39Canceled

    Yes, it’s possible that flights that did not reach their destinations due to crashing are listed after the event as canceled on the above web site. My point is that it is also the case that flights that were canceled before the event and indeed did not take off are listed as canceled, like the flight WS102 example shown above. Or should I to assume flight WS102 crashed?

  • Sofia


    Yes. Jerry-rigged Sa-11 seems more notional than practical.

    I can’t find any reference to any air-to-air Buks.

  • Winkletoe

    Has anyone with the wherewithal looked into any late cancellations or altered booking? Sometimes the passenger lists for immediately previous or following flights can be interesting.

    I recall, for instance, how RF “Pik” Botha and his team were tipped off to change their booking for the Lockerbie flight at the last minute, leaving the Bernt Carlsson and the other innocents to their grisly fate. There have been other suspicious last-minute changes.

    Also, it seems odd for there to be no Americans at all on a passenger list flight. Schiphol is after all a massive hub for flights and receives transaltlantic connecting flights constantly.

  • MJ

    “Yes, it’s possible that flights that did not reach their destinations due to crashing are listed after the event as canceled on the above web site”

    A flight that does not reach its destination will still have an ADT, triggered when the plane’s wheels leave the runway.

  • Winkletoe

    What more do we know about the Boeing 777-200 of United Airlines (flight UA201) flying on 11th July en route from Honolulu to Guam, that was diverted due to “technical difficulties” and landed on the remote, militarised USA Pacific island of Midway.

    Another Boeing 777-200 (flight UA2068) was sent from Honolulu as a “rescue plane” to pick up the passengers from UA201 and return them to Honolulu.

    But the flight tracker showed that the rescue flight flew 2458 miles (return trip Honolulu to Midway = 2620 miles). The tracker was later “corrected”, not before the original had been grabbed and posted.

  • Winkletoe

    Kempe The Pik Botha myth exposed…

    The language in the Reuters and other reports of the time and following the Maltese Double Cross is of interest. Then the CIA would have been no less punctilious about providing the conditions for plausible deniability than now. That “expose” revolves around Botha denying being tipped off or knowing about a bomb plot.

  • Kempe

    Err no. It explains in detail that there was no last minute change of reservations.

  • Nick Turner

    It looks as though the wreckage is probably that of MH370. A comparison of the flag positions with respect to the windows on the right hand side of both aircraft shows that the flag and windows on the wreckage matches MH370, not MH17. Early wreckage pictures appeared here on the 17th:

    and was picked up by Veterans Today on the 20th:

    followed by Before It’s News on the 22nd:

    Jim Stone is now covering it on:

    Add the reports that the bodies had been dead for some time before take-off, the haste to get the bodies out of the way as quickly as possible – even to the extent of cutting into parts of the wreckage – and the US now making statements that nothing pointed to the Russians having any part in the tragedy, appears to confirm that all is not what is being sold in the MSM.

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