Air Disaster 530


Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.

We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.

What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.


530 thoughts on “Air Disaster

1 15 16 17 18
  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    “The fascist government of Kiev is attacking Donetsk headquarters where the investigation into the crash is taking place.”
    _________________

    Mr Goss is obviously one of those simple-minded people who believe that if they keep saying something for long enough it it will become true.

    And so he keeps calling the Kiev govt “fascist” in the hope of one day seeing SA and SS parading on Maidan Square and a President with a little Hitler moustache.

    John, you university graduate – the real fascists are to be found in the areas of Eastern Ukraine that are attempting to secede. They are the SS and SA of the Russian-friendly oligarchs and nationalist separatists.

  • Paul Rigby

    Mr. Goss is obviously one of those simple-minded people who believe that if they keep repeating a self-evident truth for long enough, even right-wing dullards like Habbabkuk will grasp it.

    Fat chance.

    Here are the non-fascist fascists of Banderastan doing their best impression of, er, fascist-looking non-fascists:

    http://youtu.be/mrG_UZibwbU

    But if mass murder of your opponents isn’t authentically fascist enough for you, you can always relive the highlights of WWII – the death squad years:

    http://youtu.be/mrG_UZibwbU

    OUN-UPA was, incidentally, for many decades the beneficiary of MI6 largesse. I assume some discreet connections – and subsidies – persist.

  • Fedup

    The “Euromaidan liberators” and their Kiev army shell family beach

    The terrorists in their swimming trunks were a major threat to the security of Porkyshenco the brave new dear leader of Ukraine.

    Note the comments, obviously the bbc and medjia propaganda works.

  • Resident Dissident

    Congrats to the moderator or whoever removed John Goss’s post about Itar-Tass being a reputable and reliable news organisation who have now convinced him that the Ukrainian government did the deed, although he always has the fall back position provided by the anti-Semite linking it all to the Illuminati and the Rothschilds. So much for waiting for the results of an independent enquiry

    For those who want to know what happens to disreputable state owned news organisation in Russia who have the temerity not to toe the Putin line perhaps they might wish to Google RIA-Novosti. I suspect John has certain nostalgia for the old Tass days when it fearlessly reported those invitations from the Czechs, Hungarians and Poles.

  • Peacewisher

    @RD: So what were Ukrainian fighters doing conducting manoeuvres around MH17? Showing off for the passengers?

  • fred

    “So what were Ukrainian fighters doing conducting manoeuvres around MH17? Showing off for the passengers?”

    They certainly must have been.

    The SU 25s the Ukrainians use have a service ceiling of 7,000 meters and the MH17 was flying at 10,000.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25

  • Nick Turner

    Just to give you some idea of what an air crash and subsequent fire looks like, this is of a Boeing 747 getting into a fatal stall, just after taking off from Bagram Airfield.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lksDISvCmNI

    Channel 4 devoted its Dispatches slot this evening to the downing of MH17. The front section shown had been more or less reduced to a selection of component parts but with no sign of fire and no deep depressions in the soil. It was a fairly concentrated area of wreckage that should have spread out along the ground if there had been any forward momentum. It was almost as though it had been dumped there. One small piece of what might have been outer skin did have some small perforations in it but this may have been due to pulled rivets. I’ve no doubt that an aircraft maintenance engineer would be able to determine if the bits were in roughly the correct positions relative to each other – or not.

    There are daily updates as he sees it on:

    jimstonefreelance.com

    well worth a read, even if you find it difficult to accept what he writes.

  • John Goss

    RD at 10.11 So you don’t believe in free speech. You do not believe in debate. And you are proud that some Mod has removed one of my comments (it’s not a post you dildo). Well that’s understandable knowing your previous form.

    I don’t suspect Craig because he always gives a reason. But somebody has, and not just one, but another one referring to it. You will be happy it has been removed because you are a pedlar of lies, like the western media you support. The Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churlin referred to the doctored tape at the security meeting tonight but the translator stumbled over this.

    I think it is important to have all items under the scrutiny, but I could see what your investigation of the plane crash would be. We will discount that. It comes from the Russians.

  • John Goss

    ‘“The fascist government of Kiev is attacking Donetsk headquarters where the investigation into the crash is taking place.”
    _________________

    Mr Goss is obviously one of those simple-minded people who believe that if they keep saying something for long enough it it will become true.’

    I provided a link, you noodle. Here it is again.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/21/kiev-attacks-donetsk-headquarters-mh17-response/

    It was too much effort I guess to include one extra line! 🙂

    Here is another one from the same source. It partly concerns the fighter jet that was seen by the passenger plane.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/21/ukrainian-su-25-jet-near-malaisian-flight-mh17-rostov-air-traffic-control/

  • John Goss

    By the way RD itar-TASS is a reputable News Agency. It wasn’t under the Soviet system because then it was simply a mouthpiece of the Kremlin, like the UK press and TV are mouthpieces of proxy US policy today. Did I write proxy?

  • Sofia

    fred

    21 Jul, 2014 – 11:12 pm

    “So what were Ukrainian fighters doing conducting manoeuvres around MH17? Showing off for the passengers?”

    They certainly must have been.

    The SU 25s the Ukrainians use have a service ceiling of 7,000 meters and the MH17 was flying at 10,000.

    ….

    Thanks.

    They wouldn’t have seen much of the show from 33,000ft.

    I think|I might be starting to get your drift.

    Do you mean the pilot was from Right Sector so he thought he had to ram the 777 fuselage at 33,000ft then beat the crew over the head his bit of wood? Then, even if the rails for the two standard R-60s had somebody’s missiles on them he wouldn’t have known how to fire them anyway.

    What a miserable disappointment it must have been for him.

    Whatever is found embedded in the wreckage has to be bits of what brought it down. Even if the physical evidence gets pulverised by the civil war there is a mass of photgraphic, communications and radar trails to follow.

    Are we supposed to just roll over and believe what these serial liars tell us through their media empires and pretend that the same serial liars are not more our responsibility than anyone elses?

  • Peacewisher

    @Sofia: Yes, of course we are. They are so smart and have all that technology. Of course people will believe them. People generally don’t like to think they are being lied to by an authority, so they disregard all the warnings. Blissful ignorance, I think it is called. Pastor Niemoller’s disturbing verse showed the result of blissful ignorance, in times of tyranny…

  • Sofia

    2024 BREAKING NEWS

    21 07 24

    CITIZENS REASSURED!

    EezeE-ReeD® “Ukraine Report” publishd Today.

    Much of evidence 2 big deal fo nashnl scurity for make public.

    Peepl who had to make tough deesijuns sent leters from Judge Freezebedd.

    Spontan..Spon…Spontin……Street Partys wil be done.

  • Sofia

    Peacewisher.

    “… Of course people will believe them…

    True. But what is the quality of that belief and how many would lay their lives on the line for it?

    Would you say a greater or lesser percentage of minds deeply believe the narratives the corporate media spins now than in 2004?

    I have a suspicion a lot of people give about as much credence to the MSM litany as many church-goers give to the liturgy comming from the pulpits.

    Just how much cognative dissonance will people take? I don’t know.

  • Q

    What? Satellite images showing the place where the missiles were shot? And no one has a clue what happened to MH370. Does that make sense?

  • duqu

    Looks like MH17 was hit by 2 Buk-missiles: http://bayimg.com/MAPbHaaFG (click on picture)
    The cockpit left side alu-skin has both incoming and outgoing holes that doesn´t match the rivets.
    If you compare the damage on other parts, the angle doesn´t match up, MH17 looks like a swiss cheese.
    Whoever fired those missiles KNEW it was a big plane where 1 missile would´t be enough….

  • Sofia

    duqu

    22 Jul, 2014 – 6:59 am

    A clear image there. Thanks.

    Whatever caused them, that’s a lot of holes.

    Does anyone here have the knowlege to comment on whether damage to the fuselage skin is characteristic of fragmentation rod rather ait-to -air missile or high-explosive fragmentation warhead. I can’t find images that show the difference between the two. Can anyone help?

  • Peacewisher

    @Sofia: I’ve seen otherwise balanced and peaceful people become potentially violent when I used indisputable facts and statistics to challenge a particular belief they had become indoctrinated with. If this was a disturbed individual, the reaction would probably be greater. Researchers who have studied this suggests that it is a fear response from the limbic system. Ultimately we are all victims of our limbic systems because of control of hormone release, etc. and if we are to evolve as a species we need to harmonise our rational and limbic systems. Our education systems should teach us how to do this. Might reduce the incidence of mental illness as well.

  • Peacewisher

    @Sofia2: Just read your latest comment. A piece of fuselage with holes in it could be interpreted many ways and won’t resolve anything as far as public perception is concerned. As we have seen before, the propaganda machine has planted the “everyone knows” facts, and associated them with an evil enemy. The black boxes will show what really happened but will take months to generate evidence. Russia will in the meantime have further sanctions, further vilification and isolation, and the neocons must be rubbing their hands with glee.

  • fred

    “What? Satellite images showing the place where the missiles were shot? And no one has a clue what happened to MH370. Does that make sense?”

    Yes.

    America has satellites in orbit over Russia with infrared detectors to sense a missile launch and equipment to track the missiles. They have never seen a any need to put similar satellites over the Indian Ocean.

  • Sofia

    Peacewisher.

    You always make me think. Thanks.

    I sometimes wonder if the rage reaction of many conformity enforcers stems from the conflicts between their own beliefs and the unwelcome realities that their tormentors place before them.

    Easier to spit and shout than allow evidence to sink cherished beliefs.

  • Peacewisher

    @Sofia: Don’t encourage me! 🙂 Well, our hybrid brains were designed for fight or flight, and getting it wrong could mean death… and death of the species. The fact that we survived showed we were rather good at it. Roll forward tens of thousands of years… the world-view Western people grow up with today requires rational decision-making, but once the fear response is evoked we still go back to “fight or flight”. This was/is very successfully used by advertisers. For our species (and the planet?) an integration of the fight-flight brain with the rational brain should be the way forward. Instead, people are socialised into good/bad and to hate an enemy. The allegory and symbolism in Genesis is all about this.

  • Clark

    fred, 9:18 am; but most of the satellites that pass over Russia will also pass over the Indian Ocean; Low Earth Orbit takes just over ninety minutes. I suppose they might discard the “redundant” data, maybe just to leave some disk-space for all the domestic spying they do.

  • fred

    @Clark

    I would think the American early warning satellites would have to be geosynchronous.

1 15 16 17 18

Comments are closed.