Air Disaster 530

Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.

We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.

What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.

530 thoughts on “Air Disaster

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  • Mary

    What the Media Won’t Report About Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17
    by Rep. Ron Paul, July 21, 2014
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    Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Obama held a press conference to claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security Council – just one day after the crash!

    While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report.

    They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.

    The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons.

    They will not report…..


  • John Goss

    David, the other thing is that only Russia Today has been consistently reporting on the Kiev government’s war against its own people. Only after the passenger plane was shot down did the BBC, in a second or two of commentary, mention this terrible genocide of a people that want to be part of Russia, whose language and culture is Russian.

  • Mary

    I am still waiting for Obommber to share with us all his satellite imagery of the attack by ground to air missile or is he having difficulties with its creation. Perhaps he’s had to call in Cameron – no not Smoothface here – the one of Avatar fame, James in Hollywood, to assist.

  • conallboyle


    “What has been completely missed, however, is that Ukraine bears the primary responsibility for ensuring the safety of aircraft in its own airspace and, if had been aware that the separatists had missiles which could reach 72,000ft – and they had already shot down one aircraft – then it had a duty to publish a warning and exclude aircraft from the danger area.

    That it kept silent, revealing its knowledge about “BUK” only after MH17 had been shot down, puts the Ukrainian government in the frame as responsible for putting the Boeing 777 in harm’s way.

    Not least, Ukraine was protecting the revenue from the overflight fees levied on the 350 aircraft transiting each day, amounting to millions each week. But one can only speculate on further motives. The indications are that the government was looking for a “game changer”.”

  • Johnstone

    Yes, Oldie ..the deaths of all those East Ukrainians in recent weeks meant nothing to the MSM.
    Over the past few months since the first unrest in Kiev I have been comparing the RT TV coverage from the Ukraine with BBC Worlds coverage which are 2 of the three English speaking news channels that I receive through cable. On a trip to the UK in June I was stuck by the down playing and misrepresentation by the MSM and general public disinterest or ignorance about the war that’s been fought there (and genocide!!) that’s been going from bad to worse and now this!

  • oddie

    BRZEZINSKI’s warnings to European leaders on CNN fits with Obama’s latest sanctions on Russian persons & entities, especially GazpromBank, sanctions which the EU has been reluctant to endorse as Russia provides so much gas to european countries.

    discussed here:

    Reason U.S. could have been behind the shooting of Malaysian Flight MH17 in Ukraine

    and how it intersects with the Gaza invasion:

    24 Jan 2014: Al-Monitor: Russia preparing to develop Gaza gas field
    In a significant political and economic development, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas met Jan. 23 with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The meeting came as a prerequisite to officially sign an investment agreement aiming to develop the Gaza offshore gas field in the Mediterranean Sea. It is only logical to assume that this step will raise the ire of Israel. The latter does not appreciate the role Russia plays in the region, especially since Israel has never come to an agreement with Russia.

    Kiev’s evidence of militia’s responsibility for airliner crash faked – expert

  • Johnstone

    That’s not being proposed because just cos it’s a cool idea. Do you know what happened to MH380?
    Even the most far fetched scifi biological warfare explanation of infected bodies in the hold of MH17 blown up by a bomb and shot down by a air to air missile while simultaneously being hit by a ground to air missile scenario (posted by…sorry don’t remember who..) can not be disregarded as a possibility because successful inquiry into anything requires that one keep an open mind while studying all the possibilities, no matter how far fetched

  • DavidH

    Johnstone – “successful inquiry into anything requires that one keep an open mind while studying all the possibilities, no matter how far fetched”

    No. Successful inquiry requires narrowing down the possibilities to those most likely, based on the evidence at hand. What you describe is not so much an open mind as a flight of pure fantasy.

  • JorgenNielsen

    Dear John [Goss].
    Craig Murray has some stupid mods.
    In all probability they are 20-somethings, deriving from the Indian subcontinent, naive and poorly paid, whome you would never engage with in a pub – [mainly because they would never set foot in such place].

  • Kempe

    ” don’t know how they did it, but I don’t believe the pancake theory. I am a mechanical designer and I couldn’t build a model to reproduce such a collapse if I tried. Nobody could. ”

    Well your technical education missed out something important. Here are a couple of technical papers which I’m sure you won’t have any trouble understanding. One of the examples examined is Ronan Point, an absolute classic progressive collapse but which would be impossible according to truther physics.

    Another video of a progressive collapse, note also the clouds of dust although no explosives (or mini-nukes or ray guns or heavily disguised cruise missiles) were used. Note that only one wall needs to be pulled away.

    If you look at the videos you’ll see that the upper, falling, sections of the WTC did tilt before they failed. Unless the falling sections had tilted so much their centre of gravity passed beyond the outside wall they would continue to fall directly downwards (under the pull of gravity) and not fall over.

  • Ангрысоба

    OldMark: Strelkov posted his now deleted tweet on Thursday afternoon. On Wednesday evening a Ukrainian Su-25 was hit by a missile (the Ukrainians alleged at the time it was fired from a ‘Russian plane’, and not from a SAM launcher). This plane crashed near a place called Amvrosiyivka. According to Google earth, this location is 18 miles/29 kilometres from Torez.

    According to this webpage, the separatists argued that the Ukrainian claim of Russian planes shooting down an Su-25 were wrong, and that they (the separatists) had shot the plane down with a Buk:

    Vzglyad added that the separatists had set up anti-aircraft weapons at the Saur-Mogila mound in Snezhnoye and on 14 July had downed two SU-25 planes in this area. Kiev confirmed one loss and said that one of the Ukrainian SU-25 was downed by a Russian war plane. Then Vzglyad added this piece of news, not removed:

    “Ukrainian military claim that the losses were caused by actions by Russia. The militia refuted this information, correcting that they had shot down the plane from a ZRK “9K37M1″ (better known as a Buk).”

  • Johnstone

    With respect David we have no evidence yet you already ruled out at least one possibility

  • Tony M

    Kempe: Ronan Point had no steel frame it was just slabs of prefabricated concrete, it had no steel structure except rebar within the thin factory cast concrete slabs, good only in compression, twisted together and arc welded where they met, the gaps – an inch or more all round was typical – were then stuffed with used wet newspaper (this is verifiable), good enough vertical cells for working-class council house tenants. And even then only one corner collapsed progressively to the ground, as a result of a bottled-gas heater leak and explosion. So shoddy was this building it might have been possible that sealing the doors and windows of a room and bursting a balloon could have been enough blow a panel out and trigger such a collapse. Ronan Point is not comparable at all. Stop it.

    Have Kiev owned up yet or will it be a cyanide in the bunker job, like their idols?

    I leave you with this thought:

    I take my pet flies with me everywhere, even on holiday, but they can’t take much heat.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    Good reply, but I can’t respond just now. My daughter comes for a visit tonight and I won’t have time for this blog till the weekend.I apologise for starting an argument I can’t finish. I’ll be back ……………

  • Kempe

    ” Ronan Point had no steel frame it was just slabs of prefabricated concrete ”

    You fail to explain what difference this would’ve made unless you’re trying to suggest that concrete buildings are subject to different laws of physics than steel ones. Yes Ronan Point was poorly constructed but it’s still a good demonstration of a progressive collapse.

    For the record it was a mains gas cooker. After the collapse all similar tower blocks were converted to be all electric.

  • Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    Obama came for a Presser with just one subject this morning. The separatists must stop destroying evidence and join the civilized world.

    Kyev may not want the bodies shipped on the train, which was scheduled to depart today.

  • Kempe

    ” I’ll be back …………… ”

    OK, I’ll just sit here and quake in my boots until then.

  • Mary

    Do you remember the demonization of the separatists saying that they had taken the black boxes.

    BREAKING NEWS:Black boxes from flight MH17, which crashed in Ukraine, to be handed to Malaysian authorities – Malaysian PM

    Agent Cameron actually used the phrase ‘thuggish separatists’ today in the HoC.

    No thanks to the individuals concerned or to those who have the gruesome job of collecting the bodies or to the farmers whose land and crops have been damaged.

    Also MH17 plane crash: Train with bodies leaves Ukraine station. It is going to Kharkiv. There are 280 bodies on board.

  • Kempe

    ” Do you remember the demonization of the separatists saying that they had taken the black boxes. ”

    They shouldn’t really have touched them at all but left them where they were, maybe put a guard over them. By removing them they’ve left themselves open to accusation of tampering.

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