Air Disaster 530

Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.

We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.

What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.

530 thoughts on “Air Disaster

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  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node


    Do you accept the 9/11 Commission Report explanation of why the towers collapsed? That is, fires melted the steel causing a domino-effect pancake collapse.

  • Kempe

    The fires did not melt the steel, steel doesn’t have to melt before it fails. The fires were hot enough to weaken the steel by 90%, even AE911 concedes this point (but doesn’t acknowledge that it would’ve been sufficient to initiate a collapse). After that the buildings under went a progressive collapse, a well known and fully understood phenomena.

    What’s your problem?


    “What’s your problem?”

    Look at WT7. What core fire? Free-fall, nevertheless.

    Please collect your Bachelor of Farts degree.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node


    “What’s your problem?

    It’s not me that’s got a problem. I’m not the one that believes you can collapse 3 tower blocks into their own footprints by lighting fires in the top of two of them.


    Nick; Good find. Now where was that clone of MH370 observed and photographed?

  • Kempe

    Well then Ben and Node perhaps you’d better enlighten us and tell us what you believe.


    “Well then Ben and Node perhaps you’d better enlighten us and tell us what you believe.”

    It’s unfortunate that it’s impossible to fix ‘stupid’. But there is plenty of data you can review on your own time. There’s this thing called Google.

  • mike

    Apologies if this link has already been posted. Paul Craig Roberts musing on yet more false-flag shenaningans:

    Today, Turkey initiated a free trade zone with Russia (see RT); the other day, the BRICS launched their own development bank:

    Time is ticking for the US dollar hegemony. Does the Empire really think a war with Russia is the answer?

  • Sofia

    Mary. 3 09.

    Don’t all those photos tell a clear story?

    Airliner Fall From Sky = Deep Craters and Furrows.

    Soil round Donetsk and Lugansk regions, typical chernozems stretch, with the thickness of their humus bed up to 80-90 cm, formed on moist-loamy strata.

    Some of the softest earth on Earth. A gardener’s paradise!

    “Ukraine is richly endowed with chornozem, the highest-quality black soil worldwide because it contains a very high percentage of humus—7% to 15%—, along with phosphoric acids, phosphorus and ammonia. Chornozem covers 41% of Ukraine’s total area and even more, 54%, of its farmland, and 58% of land suitable for plowing.

    Some 30% of the world’s blackest topsoil is in Ukraine, and 42.8mn of the country’s 60mn hectares or 231,660 square miles is agricultural land where wheat, barley, rapeseed and sunflowers grow in abundance. Cereal crops constitute about 55% of total agricultural output. Among the leading crops are wheat, corn, sunflower, sugar beet, tobacco, legumes, fruit, and vegetables.”

    Mary, you’ll know soil like this is a gardener’s dream.
    Mighy parsnips country!

    Loads of maps and stats here,

    I’m looking forward to reading here soon, all about it’s remarkable tough leathery bouncyness when impacted by fan shafts falling from 33,000 ft.

    Fred, re the images you posted at 3 37pm. The third and fifth show the deepest depression where there are fan bits and presumably the furrow of the fan-shaft impact. Does’nt really look like the other images, does it?

    Beoing 777 empty, 306,500lbs. Not made of candy-floss.


    “Time is ticking for the US dollar hegemony. Does the Empire really think a war with Russia is the answer?”

    They know time is short for the Petrodollar if they can’t derail BRICS solidarity and they utilize a Legion of Fronts on that war, Mike.

    That’s what’s worrisome. More and more, both sides might see there is nothing to lose by instigating a regional conflagration.

    Putin is a stubborn and proud person, but so are the neocons and Obama is a cocker spaniel.


    sofia; nice analysis. maybe the potato market is driving this war. 🙂

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    “Well then [….] Node perhaps you’d better enlighten us and tell us what you believe”

    I don’t know how they did it, but I don’t believe the pancake theory. I am a mechanical designer and I couldn’t build a model to reproduce such a collapse if I tried. Nobody could.

    Even leaving aside the improbability of a gasoline fire ‘softening’ steel, the collapse would have to be perfectly symmetrical, every load-bearing joint on each individual floor giving way at exactly the same micro-second, floor after floor. If one single joint held out a little longer than the others, the floor would slew off level and the forces on the joints of the floor below would be asymmetrical, instantly resulting in an even more exaggerated slew, and the descending rubble would topple sideways.

    Now let’s go back to that initiation event. A fire starts above floor 70-something. Let’s imagine it really is hot enough to actually melt steel. Was that fire exactly in the centre of the block? Not according to the video we have, or where the aeroplane fuel would have been. So why, on the first floor to fall, did all the load-bearing joints give way at the same instant? According to the pancake theory, they must have, otherwise that floor would have collapsed at an angle, causing the floor below to also collapse on the same side, and the top of the tower would have toppled sideways.

    My challenge to you, Kempe, is to explain to me why the all the load-bearing joints on the first floor to collapse did so simultaneously.

  • Tim


    Turkey is already in a customs union with the EU (with some argument about the bits that apply to Cyprus) and has had an Association Agreement for many years.

    Russia is apparently now willing to open free trade talks with Turkey about joining its Eurasian Customs Union. But last year Russia warned the Ukraine not to sign an Association Agreement on the grounds that this would be incompatible with Membership of the Eurasian Customs Union. If it would not work for Ukraine, why should it work for Turkey?

  • mike

    Tim, The RT piece insisted that Turkey had approached Russia, the reverse of the Ukraine scenario. Perhaps the piece was Kremlin propaganda, but as that might risk annoying the Turks – probably not high on Russia’s near-term agenda right now – then perhaps not.

    Yes, Ben, a future historian might say this is shaping up to be the key face-off of the 21st Century. If the neocon war machine keeps pressing, who knows which pressure point will blow.

  • Ben-American Fascist Flechette

    Archduke Ferdinand was the cover for WWI, Mike. We need to gird our loins.

  • Fedup

    Let’s imagine it really is hot enough to actually melt steel.

    No need to imagine for three weeks after the collapse there were pools of molten steel at the base of the buildings under the rubble. In fact it is mystery how the turbine blades do not melt and the whole jet engine becoming a molten pool of metal?

    Also given your expertise, no need to go into calculations just do a search of building demolitions and note the plum of dust and dust cloud propagation, a natural collapse doe not produce a cloud of dust! This too can be tested by the videos of buildings collapsing and landslides.

    There are those whom cannot give up their income by thinking for themselves, and or are far too frightened to try and swim without water wings of the establishment narrative, it is just a question of guts, and gumption!

    Sofia Ukrainian soil is like a trampoline that is why there are no furrows and dents in the ground and also fairy farts help to raisne the dents and make good the damage!

    Putin seating on his butt and not checking the empire of chaos and zombie flesh eating neocon guards, when he could has brought about the current situation; perpetual war, for “perpetual peace”!

  • Fedup

    Archduke Ferdinand was the cover for WWI, Mike. We need to gird our loins.

    Contrary to the song and dance merchants of Freedom Freedom Freedom brand Austro Hungarian empire was a pretty progressive force, and its opposing reactionaries were bent on scuppering any progress and they managed it spectacularly just look around you!

  • fred


    I think if you look back you will see that the question asked was specifically about pieces of fuselage.

    The answer I gave is basic physics, all to do with how air resistance increases with speed. Look it up.

    Are you suggesting that the laws of physics have been repealed or that somebody brought the pieces of plane on a lorry and scattered them about?

  • Resident Dissident

    Before our amateur pedologists (or is it pedants) get too carried away they might want to look at this here

    and note that the soils in that part of the Ukraine are “Chernozems and soddy soils rock debris on compact rock eluvium” on the other hand they may wish to stick to their theory that the bad UKUSIS fairies used their evil magic to transport a wrecked aeroplane together with decaying passengers whose blood they had previously drunk to an occupied of Eastern Ukraine just to incriminate their hero and his fine upstanding friends. Or was it all a CGI projection?

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    Mr Goss

    ““It goes without saying some of the devils posting here are full time “employees” just doing their israeli “narrative” job, so why are they still allowed to post here.”

    I have no evidence whether this is true or not Just Saying. But what has been noticed is the lack of dissenters on the Israeli genocide on citizens of Gaza which has been commented upon. Whether they have been instructed not to comment, or whether they have taken an individual initiative, or whether, as they ought, they think this genocide is wrong. What has kept them away is strange in that they all, to a single comment-maker, have remained silent on this serious issue. Coincidence? Draw your own conclusions. It has even been commented that they are commenting on this thread but ignoring Israel’s aggression.”

    How on earth did you manage to get into university, John?

    Whatever the answer to that is, your university education was clearly a waste of good money for yourself, the state and society.

    God help us.

  • Fedup

    Interesting that despite all the publicity and the mobilisation of EU Monitors, so far no air accident investigators/inspectors are on site!

    The sky “news” man on the scene was asked a direct question by someone he was interviewing in UK;”are there any inspectors on the site yet?” to which the nice man on the telly responded by ignoring the question and panning onto the green pastures to talk about the remains recovered left in the bags under the baking sun.

    Oblivious to the civil war and the question put to him, on goes the kabuki, with Putin getting handed an ultimatum (how far has he descended into the gutter to be warned?) as the pay wall ft puts it.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    Fedup at 7:36
    Yes, a lot of strange things happened that day.
    However, Kempe is the master of the vague slur. Give him a list and he’ll choose the weakest link, exaggerate it, conflate it with other things not on your list, group you with people you don’t agree with, and distil it into :

    ” A short while ago people here seemed to be suggesting that there were no planes, that’s the latest theory isn’t it? Towers brought down with a “mini-nuke” or a ray gun fired from outer space and the planes added on later using CGI. Everything faked including the deaths.”
    Much better to ask him what he believes, then make him defend it. Pin him down to specific detail and he squirms … or disappears for a while.

  • Sofia

    Fred. 7 59pm

    Mary asked about the quality of the soils in the Donetsk region.

    I did’nt make up that it is some of the deepest, softest on Earth.

    She also linked with photos of the kind of uphevals caused to the earth at numerous crash sites. The common feature in these is large craters and furrows.

    Numerous photos of the MH-17 crash site, and specifically the place where turbine shaft had impacted, can be seen on the internet as in the link you provided. Thanks. I did’nt make up that the craters and furrows were different in quality and depth.

    I don’t know why this is. Just as I don’t know why other aspects of the known details are unusual.

    I await the analysis of genuine independent investigators, but fear we are going to be given a 9/11 style fairy-tale which does indeed repeal the laws of physics and common sense.

    I note that, as in the past, our rulers quickly had a ready-made narrative which just happens to dovetail nicely into their thieving and murderous intentions in the region.

    Unless the anomalies can be explained isn’t it appropriate to observe what we can and ask questions when it get’s strange? Given the record of our rulers in lying us into war, surely any information and disinformation needs to be examined and sifted.

    So, no, I have no idea of the detail of how it was done. I have a strong feeling that I am seeing the smoke and mirrors of a psy-op, but I recognise my general technical ignorance and wish credible independent investigators to examine and explain what really happened.

    I’ve seen pictures of the result of all sorts of aircraft strikes and they only seem to be strange when they are the result of terrorist conspiracies as with 9/11 and MH-17. An independent investigation would be able to check these things objectively.

    In the meantime I’ll observe what I can and I don’t really care who tells me I shouldn’t.

    Don’t you detect a fishy odour?

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    “So, no, I have no idea of the detail of how it was done. I have a strong feeling that I am seeing the smoke and mirrors of a psy-op, but I recognise my general technical ignorance and wish credible independent investigators to examine and explain what really happened.”


    So why are you prosing on about your “strong feeling” and why don’t you follow Craig’s injunction to belt up?

  • John Goss

    “In my previous article I reported on the BBC news report which I heard and which was obviously primed to place all blame on Russia. The program ended with a BBC correspondent breathlessly reporting that he has just seen the youtube video and that the video is the smoking gun that proved Russia did it. There is no longer any doubt, he said. Somehow the information got on a video and on youtube before it reached the Ukrainian government or Washington.

    The evidence that Putin did it is a video made prior to the attack on the airliner. The entire BBC report aired over National Public Radio was orchestrated for the sole purpose of establishing prior to any evidence that Russia was responsible.”


    “Washington has lied so long that it can’t do anything else.”

    Paul Craig Roberts (from the link supplied by Mike). Now watch the trolls attack Paul Craig Roberts instead of the arguments.

  • Resident Dissident


    Can you read “Chernozems and soddy soils rock debris on compact rock eluvium” – look at the map I provided – Russians are famous when it comes to soil science. Rock is the hard stuff.

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