Air Disaster 530

Grief is the only appropriate reaction to the death of so many people on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17. The point scoring and guessing games are macabre. Of course, some people have to suppress grief and get to work urgently to secure the crash site from interference so there can be a proper investigation of what happened.

We have no idea what evidence lies behind the various statements as to who did or did not shoot down the plane. There is no evidence I have seen that it was shot down at all. This could relate to Ukrainian violence, it could relate to MH 370, it could be an unrelated incident. We really don’t know yet.

What is particularly ghoulish is the false grief, what I might call the triumphalist shroud waving, of those seeking gleefully to blame the side they do not support in the Ukrainian conflict. In the current total absence of evidence, this is abominable behaviour.

530 thoughts on “Air Disaster

1 11 12 13 14 15 18
  • Johnstone

    Can someone explain to me how parts of the fuselage that have supposedly fallen 10 km are NOT embedded in the ground? Did they bounce off or something? The whole things beginning to look very odd ..And not much likelihood of a fair and independent investigation because guess what the Eastern Ukrainian militia are destroying evidence, stealing the black boxes while the investigators are being held up in Kiev!

  • fred

    “But I’m closer to it than Obama, who does.”

    I think Obama is basing his opinions on satellite data. America has satellites watching that part of the world specifically for the launching of missiles. He claims America has evidence a ground to air missile hit the plane and that it was probably launched from the Separatist controlled area of Ukraine. He has offered to share this data with other countries.

  • fred

    “Can someone explain to me how parts of the fuselage that have supposedly fallen 10 km are NOT embedded in the ground?”

    The parts would not be going any faster than if they had fallen off a tall building. There is a maximum speed things can reach when falling called the terminal velocity. For things with a high surface area to weight ratio like aircraft fuselage this would be fairly low and it would be reached in a few seconds.

  • MJ

    Flightradar24 is still reporting that MH17 was cancelled and did not take off.

    This is one of the only pieces of hard evidence available to us at the moment. It is of course highly significant. It means that whatever crashed in E Ukraine, it was not MH17.

    This sort of thing has happened before. For several months after 911 the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) continued to report that flights AA11 (WTC1) and AA77 (Pentagon) were cancelled and did not take off that day.

    That’s the problem with these real-time data sites that get updated automatically by the aeroplanes themselves. They sometimes throw up odd snippets of awkward information.

  • ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    Resident Dissident.

    Clearly the prevailing view here is very different to your own, so much so that it makes you habitually angry, and most of your contributions display a strong dislike for the person you are addressing. So if you don’t like the people here or what they say, why do you spend so much time on this blog?

    I’m not complaining, it’s useful to have facts and opinions scrutinised, but I’m curious.


    The tragic death of nearly 300 souls on MH17 covers a multitude of other sins. Rumors of escalation via Kyev makes good use of the cover story.

    The media drums “Putin bad” with a rhythm and consistency that is awesome.

    “At least 250 civilians were killed and over 850 wounded in June and July in the opposition-controlled city of Lugansk, which is besieged by the Ukrainian military, the daily report by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission said.”

  • fred

    “Funnily enough it is apparently satellite data that Putin may use to expose 9/11 as a false flag. But if Obama has that information he should release it. So should Putin.”

    I don’t think Putin can tell us anything we don’t already know. 9/11 was planned financed and perpetrated by America’s ally Saudi Arabia. The evidence is overwhelming yet it makes no difference whatsoever to people’s perception. We know the majority of the hijackers were Saudi, we know financing came from a Saudi prince, we know the so called mastermind behind it was a Kuwaiti, we know Bin Laden was Saudi, we know no one of Afghani of Iraqi nationality was involved. These are facts already in the public domain and AFAIK not disputed yet they make not a blind bit of difference whatsoever and neither would anything Putin might say.


    In spite of the media’s concerns that the militia is corrupting the investigation, they are actually preserving the black boxes for the International investigators who sit in Kyev…..waiting for Godot?

    “Boroday said that the found items “cannot be given” to Kiev representatives since in that case they could possibly damage them to “falsify the results [of the recordings].”

    A group of international experts has yet to arrive at the site of the tragedy. They are expected to be in the region on Sunday evening, according to DPR’s Deputy Prime Minister Andrey Purgin.

    “A huge crowd of experts are sitting in Kiev for some reason and. They will probably come here only on Sunday,” Purgin told Russian News Service on Saturday.

    Earlier, the DPR said it would guarantee the safety of specialists investigating the plane crash in the area if Kiev agrees to a ceasefire.”

  • MJ

    “I don’t think Putin can tell us anything we don’t already know”

    My understanding is that the Russian satellite data in question shows the plane that hit WTC1 (believed by some to be AA11, the flight reported by BTS to have been cancelled) taking off from a US carrier in the Atlantic.

    That would surely be something that most of us didn’t already know, wouldn’t it?


    Don’t forget Putin was KGB, and many sources exist for him to make good on his threat. For those who wonder why he would wait to disclose; The UNSC had 4 vetoed resolutions on Syria that China and Russia opposed, but they haven’t even proposed a resolution on Gaza yet. They are still trying to jump=start BRICS and they need the agreements with Westerners until that bears fruit.

  • Mary

    And Flight 93 for good measure while we are on the subject.

    As that wicked paleocon said:

    Reports that say there’s — that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things that we know that we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don’t know we don’t know.

    Even more LOLs.

  • fred

    “My understanding is that the Russian satellite data in question shows the plane that hit WTC1 (believed by some to be AA11, the flight reported by BTS to have been cancelled) taking off from a US carrier in the Atlantic. ”

    That would be a neat trick, a 767 needs a runway over a mile long to take off from.


    Juxtapose news coverage of MH17 with this….

    “Following the use, August 21, 2013, of chemical weapons in the suburbs of Damascus, Kerry reiterated the “strong certainty” of the United States concerning the liability of the Syrian regime. A U.S. intelligence report, released by the White House and said to rely on “multiple” sources, also said that the Syrian government used nerve gas in the attack, the use of which by the rebels is “highly unlikely”. [2]”

  • Kempe

    Psychologist ridicules conspiracy theorists:-

    If Putin has this evidence why is he hanging fire with it? With the whole world pointing the finger at him over MH17 surely this would be the time he needs something to distract attention?

    So now the plane was launched from a carrier. A short while ago people here seemed to be suggesting that there were no planes, that’s the latest theory isn’t it? Towers brought down with a “mini-nuke” or a ray gun fired from outer space and the planes added on later using CGI. Everything faked including the deaths.

    Then you wonder why people laugh at you.

  • MJ

    “That would be a neat trick, a 767 needs a runway over a mile long to take off from”

    I said “the plane that hit WTC1”. No mention of a 767. AA11 would have been a 767 had it flown.

  • Mary

    20 July 2014 Last updated at 15:54

    MH17 air crash: Recovered bodies put on train

    A freight wagon carrying the remains of MH17 victims at Torez station

    The remains of up to 196 people from the MH17 crash in Ukraine have been loaded on to refrigerated rail wagons, to be taken to an unknown destination.

    All 298 people on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 died when a missile reportedly hit it on Thursday.

  • MJ

    “her recommendation to the European Union is to take advantage of the shot-down MH17 tragedy to “Immediately accelerate efforts to find alternatives to Gazprom”

    Iran perhaps. World’s second largest supplier of gas, after Russia.

  • Kempe

    ” I said “the plane that hit WTC1″. No mention of a 767. ”

    Oh so we’re back to it being a cruise missile or a fighter jet with a hologram surrounding it.

1 11 12 13 14 15 18

Comments are closed.