I am not a Pacifist 173


I am an anti-militarist. But I believe violence in defence can be justified. The Israeli mass killings by bombing in Gaza are absolutely unjustified. I also oppose the random and ineffective rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel. But when Israeli ground troops actually move into Gaza, it is my sincere hope that the Palestinians kill as many as are necessary to stop them. That is justified, legal and necessary.


173 thoughts on “I am not a Pacifist

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  • Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    I’ve never been greatly impressed by Jeremy Bowen’s radio coverage of previous attacks on Gaza. Still, he was actually in Gaza this morning, and delivered a fairly neutral – bordering on anodyne – report on ‘Today’. On the other hand, Kevin Connolly in Jerusalem must have been personally briefed by Bibi.

  • arsalan

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella)
    Black Armed struggle in South Africa played a key part in making apartheid ungovernable. And the blacks got just as hammered when they took part in non-violent protess. Or when they were being expelled from their homes.

    You might be talking about Gaza seperately, but I am not. And even if you are just talking about Gaza, every now and again, someone would get shot from an Israeli guard, and a house would get bombed and Israel would call get peace as long as the Palestinians did not retaliate.
    And the media would agree because most of this would not even get reported. It would be just business as usual.

  • arsalan

    But even without the Israelis killing Palestinians as individuals, when an Israeli soldiers sees him in his farmland close to the exclusion zone Israel has enforced that occupies most gazan farms, or the assinations of people who Israelis have said are millitants by bombing their houses. Or the killing of fishermen catching fish to eat and sell. Even without all this, being stuck in a concentraion camp, starved and isolated, seperated from the homes and farms Israel took away from you some of which are visible from your the concentration camp of Gaza is all the justification Palestinians need to do whatever they need to, or want to.

  • Miss Castello

    FOR THE RECORD;
    The majority of commenter’s on this blog are (as my Father would say, and I agree with him) the ‘salt of the earth’; Arsalan, Dreoilin, Mary, Ba’al, Phil, a prime example.

    As for those who DARE to defend the obscene war crimes of FAKE STATE ZIO-NAZI ISRA-HELL; (speaking of ‘earth’)- the sooner they and their Zio-Nazi Idols are under it, the better for human kind this world will be.

  • arsalan

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/translation-of-censored-bbc-interview/

    The cause of this attack on Gaza was the formation of a Unity government.

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/translation-of-censored-bbc-interview/

    Israel was looking for an excuse, any excuse. But even if none were provided this attack on Gaza would have happened.
    Three kids hitchhike and are found dead. Would anyone be surprised if hitchhiking kids were found dead anywhere else?
    Don’t we tell our kids over and over again, “don’t get in to strangers cars”? Isn’t this why?
    Israeli kids are killed by Israelis all the time. Just as British kids are killed by British adults. French kids are killed by Frnech adults and the same applies to each and every country.
    The key difference is, in Israel, when anyone is found dead, sometimes it is used as an excuse by the Zionist government to kill a bunch of Palestians that they would have killed anyway.
    And all the evidence they would need is the accusation. 120 Palestinians were killed in Gaza and a bunch more were killed in the investigation. Some Zionists say the burning to death of one Palestinian boy was bad, but at the same time they say the killing for more than 100 others is perfectly OK, a case of Israel defending it self.

  • arsalan

    Miss Castello

    Israel pays unemployed people to post of blogs. It has been doing so for a long time. Crag can confirm this by looking at IP addresses. And even if he didn’t the timings of the posts give an indication of their locations. The spelling and grammar also help.
    Larry from St lous was one. The timings of his posts would have been 3 am in America, but were during the day in America.
    Others claimed to be from the UK but used Americanism and American spellings as many Israelis do.
    Mistakes in grammar such as adjective after the noun is another mistake they keep making.
    You can see these things in all the pro war and pro Israeli posts, as well as the Anti Muslim posts.

  • doug scorgie

    Je
    13 Jul, 2014 – 3:38 pm

    “If Hamas announced a unilateral ceasefire today, excepting the UN calls for one that would completely wrongfoot the Israelis. They need to stop playing into the Israelis hands, demand their civil rights, and resist passively.”

    ——————————————————

    I think you must be very naïve and ill-informed Je. Hamas has called unilateral cease-fires in the past but Israel ignores them. Even when bi-lateral cease-fires have been made, Israel has broken them: yes Israel breaks cease-fires not Hamas. There is a wealth of reports online (including Israeli news outlets) to inform you.

    Passive resistance is seen as weakness by the Israeli government so they continue to steal more land.

    If the Palestinians react violently, Israel punishes them by stealing more land.

    This has been going on since 1947.

  • mark golding

    A sizeable number of terrorists have returned from Iraq to Jordon after the fall of Mosul and the assault on Samarra.

    It is clear to me these terrorists will re-arm with advanced American weapons before entering Syria (Khirbet Awwad) while IDF special forces continue to attack Syrian army positions with heavy artillery and missiles.

    Certainly Golan must be viewed as another front for Israeli incursions into Syria while eyes are turned towards Gaza and Ukraine.

  • mark golding

    “the Palestinians kill as many as are necessary to stop them” – that is an oversight Craig, a miscalculation. The power of intention cannot work that way.

  • Dave

    Who remembers now that in the US in the 1950s there was talk of requiring Zionist organisations active in that country to register formally as agents of a foreign power (under FARA, the Foreign Agents Registration Act).

    Which isn’t to say it was only then that Zionist control started. Look at say the Paris Peace Conference of 1919. But nonetheless in the 1950s some people still talked about FARA registration. Don’t try to get elected to any office on such a platform now!

  • Je

    Doug Scorgie – ” Hamas has called unilateral cease-fires in the past but Israel ignores them. Even when bi-lateral cease-fires have been made, Israel has broken them: yes Israel breaks cease-fires not Hamas.”

    I’m aware of that. It would still wrongfoot the Israelis. Particularly in regard to their attempts to justify the slaughter to the international community.

    “Passive resistance is seen as weakness by the Israeli government”

    The Israelis are scared of one thing – demographics. What they don’t want is a united Palestinian people that has the support of the international community. Rockets just play into their hands. If they were scared of those they wouldn’t be so unworried about provoking them.

  • Mary

    Off topic? Yes!

    Baroness Butler-Sloss has resigned as chair of the child abuse inquiry.

  • Ba'al Zevul (With Gaza)

    If they were scared of those they wouldn’t be so unworried about provoking them.

    The Israeli doctrine in a nutshell.

    Also worth remembering that thanks to AIPAC and CPMAJO (crucial to the AIPAC funding stream*, thanks, Dave), Israel isn’t actually paying for the tons of high-explosive it’s dropping daily on Gaza.

    (Wouldn’t it be interesting to compare the actual tonnage of HE expended by both sides?)

    *(AIPAC doesn’t actually fund anyone. Its wealthy Zionist corporate backers do, on the basis of AIPAC recommendation. All magnificently deniable.)

  • Mary

    Israel’s Gaza campaign in seventh day, amid rocket fire……
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28290018

    ‘On the seventh day, shalt thou rest…….

    PS I know that means the Sabbath and it is Monday today, but apt.

    Notice that ‘amid rocket fire’. No mention of aerial bombardments, getting the people to scurry off to goodness knows where under threat of losing their lives, wrecked buildings, no water or electricity, hospitals overflowing and shortages of medical supplies and food.

  • technicolour

    Saturday, 12th July, a group called Jews Against Genocide (JAG) held a memorial service for Palestinian children killed by Israel in its current attack on Gaza. JAG set aflame to a pile of dolls covered in red paint at Yad Vashem, Israel’s holocaust memorial museum. Jews Against Genocide (JAG) is a movement of Jews from all over the world, including Israelis, who are protesting against Israel’s intent to commit genocide against the non-Jewish indigenous people of Palestine.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/activists-childrens-protest.html

  • arsalan

    Je
    True they are scared of Demographics.
    And the way they have always delt with the demographic threat is what they are doing in Gaza now.
    What they are doing in Israel itself is another way. Making life so difficult for the Arab citizens of Israel.
    Israel is actually based on doing this.
    When Israel was founded, the land was full of Arabs and the Jews were a tiny little minority. So they kicked out or exterminated 80% of the Palestinians so Israel could be both a democratic and Jewish state.
    And they have been expelling and killing ever since.
    And the supporters of Israel carry on supporting Israel whether the Palestinians defend themselves or not.

  • arsalan

    Well I would say making life difficult for the Palestinians is the main way Israel deals with the domocratic threat. They make life hard to get the Palestinians to leave Palestine. And Israel makes no secret of this. When you mention the check points, restrictions on education and hospitals they always say, “why don’t they move away?”

    And no one minds this way of keeping control of demographics. While Israel does this and the Palestinians don’t fight back people call it peace.

  • DoNNyDarKo

    I doubt that Israel will send ground forces in. Israel is a bully and her soldiers are bullies. Bullies shy away from a fair fight and Israel is no different as we’ve seen in the past. They will flex their military might and threaten invasion but won’t take the step.
    They managed to kill a few families waving white flags on their last incursion but it won’t be so easy IF they suddenly find cohones.

  • doug scorgie

    Kempe
    13 Jul, 2014 – 2:28 pm

    “I’m not a pacifist either but I hope some settlement can be reached which forestalls any ground invasion so no more people have to die.”

    ———————————–

    That would be good but Israel doesn’t want a settlement it wants thousands of settlements!

  • doug scorgie

    Anon
    13 Jul, 2014 – 3:26 pm

    “Does Godalming BDS keep such an accurate count of Muslim on Muslim violence, which kills scores more than Israel has in nearly 70 years?”

    ————————————–

    Being that BDS is an organisation set up to highlight decades of brutal illegality by the “democratic” state of Israel I doubt it.

    But carry on with your hasbara misdirection, it is getting you nowhere.

    We are immune to it on this blog.

  • Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    DonnyDarko

    “Bullies shy away from a fair fight and Israel is no different as we’ve seen in the past.”
    _________________________

    You mean like in 1967?

  • doug scorgie

    Je
    13 Jul, 2014 – 3:44 pm

    “Without the rockets Israel’s don’t have the excuse to bombs them to bits.”

    As I’ve said before; if the rockets stop (which they have in the past) Israel will find an excuse to bomb anyway; like “we were targeting terrorists plotting an attack”.

    Israel frequently carries out targeted assassinations in Gaza during agreed ceasefires.

  • doug scorgie

    Rehmat
    13 Jul, 2014 – 3:47 pm

    “@Anon – for your information, the BDS movement is not anti-Israel. In fact, it legitimizes the Zionist entity.”

    I see your point Rehmat.

    BDS (although I support them) do seem to hang on to the myth that a two state solution is still possible; it isn’t.

    So BDS should expand their activities to include Israel “proper” and campaign for a one state solution that incorporates all the land of historic Palestine giving equal status to all its citizens.

  • DoNNyDarKo

    It’s still American bombs and an American check book Habba. The bully had and has a big brother.Israel only fights when the odds are not against them.And in between times they use their lobby’s and their proxy’s and their nazi tictacs, or they bomb from over 60,000 feet.
    No discipline, no morals and no memory !! They have become what they say they hate.
    They have this little project going , the ” Trumanstein Story ” where they play make-believe that they are a democracy. No way Habba.
    They are a sick society with a massive chip on their hasbara block shoulder.Every illness has a cure. If they dont cure themselves, they’ll disappear.
    67 ?? It was pre-emptive. Probably egged on by US Intelligence, Israel hit their opponent when they were sleeping.Israel started the war with big brother at their back.
    The IDF are a cowardly force unable to defeat Hizbollah and they had no stomach for a ground invasion during Cast Lead. White phosphorous from the skies was just peachy however. Did you see the ignorant little Gazan boys playing with it when it was still burning ? Did you see the injuries it caused people when it hit their skin ? Did you know it was a banned weapon ? C’mon Habba ! How can you support that ?

  • Mary

    The media’s attempt at equivalence goes on, and on, and on. In this case, Channel 4 News.

    Snowmail…”the war between Israel and Palestinian militants”…short email to 6 Pilgers
    Posted by Ed on July 14, 2014, 7:10 pm

    Mr Snow,
    In tonight’s Snowmail(1) you say:

    “Jonathan Miller is at a hospital in Gaza, trying to piece together the true human cost of the war between Israel and Palestinian militants.”

    The 4th most powerful military in the world is slaughtering anyone in their way in poverty stricken, defenseless Gaza, including children and the disabled. So far, 176 Palestinians have been killed but not one Israeli.

    Why are you calling it a “war”? On what planet is this a “war”?

    Ed Murray.

    (1)On the ground in Gaza, where the death toll keeps rising
    Foreign Affairs Correspondent Jonathan Miller is at a hospital in Gaza, trying to piece together the true human cost of the war between Israel and Palestinian militants. He has been live-tweeting from the ground in Gaza @millerC4, and his report will be on air from 7pm tonight.

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