Destruction of Evidence 217


This Greville Janner interview has simply disappeared from the website of the Holocaust Educational Trust, “founding patron” Greville Janner, and from other such websites which used to host it. I can only now find it on my own blog and on a few places which copied it from my blog. It is an important interview for reasons which are very obvious if you read it.

I was taken up to the Kinderheim, to the Children’s Home, where there were some sixty orphan children, most of whose lives had been saved by monasteries, by being out in the woods or by miracles in each case and they all spoke Yiddish and I didn’t speak Yiddish and it was very difficult to talk to them but we knew some of the same songs so we sang together in Hebrew they knew and I knew the songs and then one of them said to me the first Yiddish words I’ve ever learnt , he said “Gavreal”, which is Greville in Hebrew and (he) called me “Gavreal spishtie ping pong, ping pong” and he pushed back and forwards as though he was holding a ping pong bat so my first words in Yiddish were “ping pong” and I played Ping Pong with them and they taught me a few words of Yiddish and I found it such a moving experience that for the next eighteen months I went back to them every weekend

The deletion is not acknowledged – the evidence has simply been quietly expunged. The irony of the Holocaust Educational Trust, which exists to keep alive the evidence of a dreadful crime, expunging evidence of crime which it finds inconvenient, does not need to be emphasised by me.

Janner’s being Jewish was irrelevant to his being a paedophile. So was his being a Zionist. But he was not just any old Zionist. He was the acknowledged leader of Zionism in the UK. He was President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, Vice President of the World Jewish Congress, he was Vice President of the Association for Jewish Youth, Vice President of the Jewish Leadership Council, President of the Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women, on the Advisory Board of the Community Security Trust, Chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust and Director of the United Jewish Israel Appeal.

These organisations were led by a man who was a predatory paedophile, yet they apparently feel no necessity to condemn his activities or to acknowledge what has happened, merely secretly deleting any particularly embarrassing references. It is like the attitude of the Catholic Church on paedophilia thirty years ago.

David Cameron, echoed by the corporate media, calls upon the millions of law-abiding Muslims in the UK to denounce and distance themselves from a few terrorist nutters with whom 99.99% of British Muslims have no connection anyway. That apparently is acceptable. But to ask that the Zionist and Jewish organisations denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations, is portrayed as unacceptable racism.

This is a stinking double standard.


217 thoughts on “Destruction of Evidence

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  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    “But to ask that the Zionist and Jewish organisations denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations, is portrayed as unacceptable racism.”
    ___________________

    Who has portrayed this as unacceptable racism?

    Names of individuals and/or organisations, please, together with sources and, if possible, quotes.

    Are you recording events or predicting them?

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    BTW and just to clarify : I have no problem with the idea that the organisations concerned should denounce Janner.

    To think otherwise would be in contradiction with what I myslef sometimes request on this blog, namely that posters should condemn “x” or “y” or “z” and that their failure to do so is – to say the least – puzzling.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    “I don’t care what bloody age they are,” says Lord Janner. “These criminals should have been dealt with years ago.”

    http://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/lifestyle-features/82477/britain-full-people-%EF%AC%81ghting-hatred-we-are-lucky-live-here

    Perhaps Lord Mendelsohn would know why the interview was removed?

    http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/lord-mendelsohn/4286

    In addition to his impressive list of directorships, he was very close to Janner (in a nonsexual way, m’Lud) and is a trustee-director of the HET.

  • Miss Castello

    What can anyone add to that which is stated above, other than “silence is golden when you can’t think of a good answer”: (Muhammed Ali)

  • Kempe

    ” These organisations were led by a man who was a predatory paedophile ”

    Sorry I must’ve missed something. Has he actually been found guilty of anything?

  • Daniel

    “BTW and just to clarify : I have no problem with the idea that the organisations concerned should denounce Janner.”

    The point is though, they haven’t. On the contrary, as Craig’s commentary would seem to suggest, they appear to be rallying around him.

  • glenn_uk

    Kemp – nice to know Janner still has some champions. Mate of his, are you?

  • Kempe

    ” Kemp – nice to know Janner still has some champions. Mate of his, are you? ”

    Never met him, probably never will. I just thought Craig would be keen to support the central tenet of British justice that a man is innocent until proven guilty.

  • Tim Hoddy

    David Cameron, echoed by the corporate media, calls upon the millions of law-abiding Muslims in the UK to denounce and distance themselves from a few terrorist nutters with whom 99.99% of British Muslims have no connection anyway. That apparently is acceptable. But to ask that the Zionist and Jewish organisations denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations, is portrayed as unacceptable racism.

    The big difference here is, of course, that neither Janner, nor other Zionists and Jews, have tried to use either Judaism or Zionism to justify his alleged crimes.

    And, as you say, “Janner’s being Jewish was irrelevant to his being a paedophile.”

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Has he actually been found guilty of anything?

    That’s a valid point. No matter whether you like Janner, or not. The court of public opinion may have found him guilty, but the court of law is the one that matters. Or at least, it does if we are to make any claim to a regard for justice. There’s no claim as far as I can see that he abused anyone at the Auschwitz Kinderheim, either. It may be that the HET know differently. Time will possibly tell.

  • Macky

    Habbabkuk; “Who has portrayed this as unacceptable racism?”

    If memories serves right, on previous Threads here, both Anon1 & Becky Cohen have, if not yourself also.

  • OldMark

    That’s a valid point. No matter whether you like Janner, or not. The court of public opinion may have found him guilty, but the court of law is the one that matters.

    Excellent point Komodo. As for the court of law which may in due course rule on his guilt of innocence, I hope that the question of Janner’s fitness to plead is rigorously examined, and that solid evidence, in the form of relevant CT scans, should determine whether he faces a full criminal trial or a lesser ‘trial of the facts’.

  • lysias

    Just to put the context of this thread in context, I think this news has only been reported here at the end of the thread two threads back: The Guardian: Lord Janner to be prosecuted over child sex abuse claims:

    The future of Alison Saunders, the director of public prosecutions, will come under intense scrutiny after she confirmed that her previous decision not to charge Lord Janner in connection with child abuse allegations had been overturned.

    The ruling means Janner will face a trial of the facts, where a jury hears the evidence against an individual considered too ill for a full trial. This is expected to be held into the 22 offences allegedly committed in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.

    The decision follows a review of the case under the CPS victims’ right to review scheme, which allows people to have their case looked at again no matter who in the CPS took the decision not to prosecute. The review, by David Perry QC, concluded that it was in the public interest to bring proceedings before a criminal court.

    Apparently, one of the charges that will be investigated is the sexual assault that Janner allegedly committed against a nine-year-old boy in the Chapel of St. Mary Undercroft underneath the Houses of Parliament:

    The charges relate to alleged offences of buggery and indecent assault committed against children between 1963 and 1988 by the former Labour MP. ‎The youngest alleged victim was an eight-year-old boy at the time of the alleged offence. Janner is charged with indecently assaulting him between 1969 and 1970, and of buggery against him between 1963 and 1969. Another alleged victim was nine at the time. The others ‎were aged between 12 and 16.

    However, the article contains towards its end this cautionary note:

    If a judge rules that Janner is unfit to be tried, a hearing in his absence could be conducted in which both the alleged victims and other witnesses could testify. It is still possible that a judge could throw out the case against Janner if his lawyers successfully argue against a trial of the facts, halting any need for evidence or testimony from his alleged victims.

  • Mary

    Previous DPP defended current DPP on Radio 4 Today.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0607w1d
    2hrs 36mins in
    Liz Dux at the start. Solicitor for the claimants.

    ‘Law is not always an exact science, as Lord Macdonald, a previous DPP, said on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “These positions are not always binary, and highly respected lawyers have come to opposing conclusions on this.

    “I do think that Alison Saunders’s position was a perfectly respectable, perfectly defensible position. I think it is a very good thing that decisions can be open to review in this way.

    “It was courageous of the DPP to have this case put through that system and I think the system has proved that in this case it worked well … she is a woman of complete integrity, and I don’t think she should resign.”’

    DPP’s U-turn on Lord Janner shows review system works
    Victims’ right to review scheme specifically envisages such reversals because ‘refusing to admit mistakes can seriously undermine public trust’
    Monday 29 June 2015 14.00 BST http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/jun/29/dpp-lord-janner-is-a-sign-that-review-system-is-working

    All very well but action could have been taken against Janner in 2007 if the Leics police has passed the evidence up the line.

    And what did McDonald and Starmer do? Zilch.

    ~~
    The Radio 4 piece above was not listed in the running order so I had to plough through to get the timing. Why the omission BBC? I heard the original broadcast so knew the approx. time of the interview.

    The whole thing is an establishment cover up.

    Reminder McDonald co founder of Matrix Chambers with Ma Blair. Janner a Liebour peer.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Macky

    “Habbabkuk; “Who has portrayed this as unacceptable racism?”

    If memories serves right, on previous Threads here, both Anon1 & Becky Cohen have, if not yourself also.”
    ____________________

    It should be obvious even to the Bluntest Knife that Craig was not referring to posters on this blog when he wrote “But to ask that the Zionist and Jewish organisations denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations, is portrayed as unacceptable racism.”

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    A very good point from Tim Hoddy, which I note has gone unanswered because thgeree is no answer to it:

    “The big difference here is, of course, that neither Janner, nor other Zionists and Jews, have tried to use either Judaism or Zionism to justify his alleged crimes.”

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Glenn_UK

    “Kemp – nice to know Janner still has some champions. Mate of his, are you?”
    ___________________

    Did you suddenly fancy a roll in the gutter with some of the weirder denizens of the blog?

    Very beneath you, I feel.

  • Mary

    It’s been so nice for the last few days not to have had every comment picked to pieces for no reason other than to divert and distract.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    Janner is/was a Vice-President of the Jewish Leaders’ Council. (Other VP’s and trustees contain a high proportion of major party donors, which is perhaps what leadership means)

    VP’s page:

    http://www.thejlc.org/about-us/the-jlcs-structure/vice-presidents/

    Trustees:

    http://www.thejlc.org/about-us/the-jlcs-structure/trustees/

    No Janner.

    Yet,

    http://www.thejlc.org/author/gjanner/

    Janner. No longer linked from the people pages, since no longer on them.

    JLC must be feeling a bit diffident about the connection with its probable co-founder.

  • Macky

    Habbabkuk; “It should be obvious even to the Bluntest Knife that Craig was not referring to posters on this blog”

    Really ? The only obvious deduction to be made so far, it that perhaps you are the dullest of dullards !

  • Republicofscotland

    “But he was not just any old Zionist. He was the acknowledged leader of Zionism in the UK. He was President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, Vice President of the World Jewish Congress, he was Vice President of the Association for Jewish Youth, Vice President of the Jewish Leadership Council, President of the Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women, on the Advisory Board of the Community Security Trust, Chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust and Director of the United Jewish Israel Appeal.”
    ___________________________

    By not acknowleding Janner’s,shameful activities, surely it must somehow undermine the credibility of the above bodies that you’ve mentioned.

    Infact not addressing the issue, will have done more harm than good, one can only suggest that it’s in their interests to keep the vile pastimes of such a prominent member, and former leader under wraps.

    The Jewish/Zionist community should come out and condemn their former leaders actions, if some have already so then I openly acknowledge their stance.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Daniel

    ““BTW and just to clarify : I have no problem with the idea that the organisations concerned should denounce Janner.”

    The point is though, they haven’t. On the contrary, as Craig’s commentary would seem to suggest, they appear to be rallying around him.”
    __________________

    No, Daniel, the point of my post was to get Craig to give chapter and verse to back up his claim that “asking the Zionist and Jewish organisations to denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations is portrayed as unacceptable racism.”.

    I note that he has not yer done so.

  • lysias

    Speaking of Liebour, people should bear in mind that Janner was suspended from the Labour Party immediately after the DPP said he should have been prosecuted years ago. That was a couple of months ago. For them to do that, the evidence against him must be pretty strong.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    I think this news has only been reported here at the end of the thread two threads back

    The top of the thread titled ‘The Janner Standard’, one thread back, must have escaped your attention then.

  • Ishmael

    “These organisations were led by a man who was a predatory paedophile, yet they apparently feel no necessity to condemn his activities or to acknowledge what has happened, merely secretly deleting any particularly embarrassing references. It is like the attitude of the Catholic Church on paedophilia thirty years ago.”

    It’s amazing how long these structures go on in complicity, myself i’d like to think i’d have to leave and if I could not seek ‘justice’ though legal means, at least try and notify those I could in the pubic, or grassroots maintainers of that organization. Amazing capacity for ones that all focus on few or one authority figure though. People seem to really get off on these structures, turn blind eye’s ect…

    Actually, Think i’d be more happy to create an insurrection or alert public as this is often what results in legal or other action being taken. Public pressure. Plus no dealing with the state, but that’s me…

  • lysias

    The top of the thread titled ‘The Janner Standard’, one thread back, must have escaped your attention then.

    When I looked at that thread, perhaps half an hour ago, the top lacked any contents. It only had a title. The early commenters remarked on that fact.

  • Alcyone

    Habbabkuk (La Vita È Bella)
    29 June, [email protected]:28
    “But to ask that the Zionist and Jewish organisations denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations, is portrayed as unacceptable racism.”
    ___________________

    Who has portrayed this as unacceptable racism?

    Names of individuals and/or organisations, please, together with sources and, if possible, quotes.

    Are you recording events or predicting them?
    *************
    Habbabkuk, this is classified. (As polemical). Hence, don’t expect an answer to this one. Politico-poetic licence?

  • Ba'al Zevul

    …solid evidence, in the form of relevant CT scans, should determine whether he faces a full criminal trial or a lesser ‘trial of the facts’.

    Absolutely. I hope the alleged victims’ lawyers will be able to insist on it. As I think they are trying to do.

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