I have enormous respect for the work of the Institute for War and Peace Reporting. They work in conflict regions to teach the basic principles of journalism to local journalists, including citizen journalists. They really do get right in to the most difficult situations, and have access to knowledge on the ground that western media organisations often lack. I worked closely with their office in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, where Michael Andersen did a great job.
The fact that IWPR accesses direct first hand knowledge of what really happens during conflicts, almost certainly holds the key to the death of Jackie Sutton. She was killed for something she knew. The official Turkish story that she killed herself in the airport in despair at missing a connecting flight, is risible.
I cannot claim to any idea at present what it was she knew that caused her to be killed. It follows from that I do not know who killed her. But the speed of the Turkish authorities to promote a suicide narrative must in itself raise suspicions.
Find too much sibling and political rivalry between Jacky and her family, especially her sister Jenny, for their quick dismissal of her possible murder to be credible.
Jenny is a rabid left winger who has gotten almost nowhere by representing the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition in Tottenham with its anti-austerity plans while her sister Jacky was grabbing all the headlines with her dangerous international service.
Trowbridge H. Ford
24/10/2015 1:52am
I find that a very odd conclusion to reach. How do you know there was sibling rivalry or political dissension within the family? Maybe the sisters were very supportive of each other.
That Jenny Sutton is presumably a well-informed and politically independent-minded person enhances rather than undermines the family’s preliminary conclusions in my eyes. She’s the last person one would expect to accept official assurances at face value.
John
Your comment, John is odd in the extreme.
Jacky Sutton, a person with no record of any suicidal inclination, dies in Istanbul on a Saturday, and within about 72 hours her sister Jenny in England tells the Daily Mail, Britain’s leading covert state outlet, that she and he family believe that she acted alone, and is satisfied with the Turks official conclusion that it was suicide.
Looks like they were the first, not the last, to reach this rush to judgment, and it doesn’t surprise me at all. Families usually act according as they don’t want any uncomfortable limelight, and are the first to throw in the sponge.
In my own case, when the vile American state and its NATO allies were involved in killing me, most of my relatives could only think of suicidal tendencies, and could only advise me to seek medical help, and psychological therapy.
When the NATO forces finally get me, I am confident most of my family will be quick to say that it was surely suicide, and we are surprised that the old sod lasted this long without doing himself in.
“That Jenny Sutton is presumably a well-informed and politically independent-minded person enhances rather than undermines the family’s preliminary conclusions in my eyes. She’s the last person one would expect to accept official assurances at face value.” John
Unless she’s been pressured by a threat to her family.
Ben again shows were he is at.
“Father of soldier who died in Iraq confronts Hilary Benn MP over Syria bombing”
http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/resources/reports/father-of-soldier-who-died-in-iraq-confronts-shadow-foreign-secretary-hilary-benn-mp-over-syria
Trowbridge H. Ford
24/10/2015 1:43pm
I don’t think my comment is in the slightest bit odd – but everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.
How do you know Jacky Sutton has no record of any suicidal inclination? That’s a matter her family are a lot more likely to know about than yourself.
We don’t know, do we, what evidence the Turkish authorities have presented to the family. Until we do, and have an opportunity to evaluate it for ourselves, it is extraordinarily arrogant to make judgements about what the family has done. They might be right, and they might not be right. We simply don’t know. And unless and until we do know, I suggest that you refrain from insulting her bereaved family, which is precisely what you are doing.
I’m not interested in your own family experience. Your family is not her family, and you have no right to extrapolate from your family experience to her family experience.
Now why don’t you shut up, and leave her bereaved family alone until you have evidence, that they have acted out of political and sibling rivalry, and/or they want to throw in the sponge, or don’t want attention, or whatever else it pleases you to believe because you want it to be murder.
If you think families are quick to throw in the sponge you can’t have much life experience. Families are the last people to give up easily. Any number of prominent miscarriage of justice cases prove that. Families fight tooth and nail to get justice for their loved ones. We see that again and again. Think it over.
John
Suhayl Saadi
24/10/2015 5:59pm
Possibly. It would be a much more credible explanation for a family’s motivation than saying that her family just didn’t like her, which is what Trowbridge H. Ford apparently believes.
But how credible is it that a family in England have been threatened?
Kind regards,
John
“How credible is it that a family in England have been threatened?”
Why threatened.
She spent a lot of time in some very dangerous areas of the world.
The family may have found comfort in whatever explanation was privately provided to them by govt officials.
I have just read back and found your kind message Glenn. Thank you.
The thread is very interesting. Poor woman and note that her death amounted to a news item in the corporate media.
Glad to see discussion continuing. As all media have printed the family/IWPR line and then unanimously shut up . Do we still do ‘D’ Notices?
Trowbridge – Thank you for you observation on Ataturk @ night. Actually that was my impression too, but have only traversed the arrival level at that time. Thinking about it, it would have probably been possible for an assailant to enter/escape under the cubicle door, as apparently Jackie’s finders saw her feet in the gap. Another possibility, then. I’m not trying to postulate a scenario; I’m just interested in what the possibilities might be.
I find you almost as interesting as Jackie Sutton, by the way. My first and last inclination is never to believe a spook, and lacking access to US documentation, of course, I have no way of knowing whether your substantial e-presence as such is real or invented, or if the latter, by whom. IF you worked for US intelligence, and you are at large, it is undoubtedly with their knowledge and consent (or their indifference, at least). The assumption that you are an agent provocateur or simply disinforming is inescapable, sorry.
Seisen – I find nothing to disagree with there. The suicide narrative sucks, but stranger things have happened, and it has to be admitted. Wonder if you get the impression that Sutton was showing signs of confusion in the video of the airline(?) desk when she is redirected through a gate, subsequently casually closed by a woman in fluorescent pink who has appeared at the same time?
JS-D-
Normally I would agree that sleeping dogs should lie, on the face of it this one too. But this particular canine has been rolling in something dead, is infested with fleas, and badly needs a bath.
In the most obvious lies and conjecture there always exist an element of truth! Reading the above and considering that the family may have just jumped into the “suicide” conclusion, it is the case of Kelly all over, the SIS have had a “cordial visit” and explanations of certain facts thereof, post their departure everything falls in place and all is explained!
We may have our answer in the disinformation that is being pumped; she was a spook! This then could open up a whole new vista of probabilities; turf war, reciprocate, or damage limitation, …….
We will have a to wait for a few years before this one is explained too. As in the case of the criminal the minister and prim minster’s hag
Ba’al, I can assure you that I am a real person with the history i have alluded to – i.e., I am an ex-CIC analyst who became a political scientist with an British historical bent,
My experience in US Army counter intelligence got me started in wanting to stop or at least expose much of what most agencies do as it is all too often too unfocused and counter productive, as the lives of spies like Peter Wright, Col. Rudolf Abel, William King Harvey, James Angleton, Richard Helms, Colin Figines, etc. demonstrate.
Official reaction to my efforts has resulted in the various attempts of silence me, either through death or entrapment. The FBI was been leading an effort to get rid of me for making such a stink about the brutal murder of military intelligence leaker John P. Wheeler, especially the role of the Bdens in it.
First, the Bureau tried to set me up for murder where I live in a drug bust, and recently it has been trying to connect me to Wheeler’s alleged killed, Andrew Robert Levene through his association with Steven G, Nickerson.
With Joe Biden deciding most reluctantly not to run for President because of this matter apparently, I suspect I shall be the target now of more serious efforts to kill me.
She could have got to Irbil on a Global Atlas flight 10-12 hours later, according to the flight schedules available. Or waited for a day and got the next TAV one. She had cash to cover either.
Huffington Post, among many others, published the video sequences in Ataturk. Not all are timestamped, none are datestamped, and the quality is abysmal. These are either very cheap cameras, badly installed, or the video has been edited. Huffington links to the source; Yeniakit.
http://www.yeniakit.com.tr/video/intihar-eden-gazetecinin-son-goruntuleri-6258.html
This is hardly international mainstream. And Wikipedia is rather illuminating…
Yeni Akit (Turkish: New Agreement) is a conservative and Islamist Turkish daily newspaper. The newspaper is known for its Islamic extremist views, support of militant Islamist organizations like Al-Qaeda,[2] resorting to hate speech against groups like Jews and atheists.[3][4][5] According to a report published by Hrant Dink Foundation, Yeni Akit is one of the top three Turkish newspapers resorting to hate speech.[6][7] Yeni Akit newspaper is an avid supporter of AKP and has close ties with president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.[8][9][10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeni_Akit
Well, bloody well.
Caution: the Daily Mirror copy of the videos has a clickjacking script but the Yeniakit one seems to be clear. NoScript recommended. And none of the clips is timestamped – my bad. Re the people around, the last clip appears to show her heading for the eats in the departure lounge having (carrier bag) visited the shops, presumably airside. It’s not jammed, but there’s plenty of company, perhaps an hour before her onward flight.
Oh, and the Mirror video has been cropped. The Yeniakit version shows a wider f.o.v., including where S. makes her entrance from. However, this may simply be due to reformatting.
Might this thread be given the al-Hilli treatment, Craig?
I’m interested in the official with the orange jumper on, taking a styropone (sp?) cup suddenly from the counter and disposing of it in the front of us.
Could this have been Jsacky’s cup, and then the video was cropped when it was replaced by another one?
Oh right, Be’el, let’s give it the al-Hilli treatment where apparent murderer William Hershkovitz got replaced by nothing but endless confusion!
“But how credible is it that a family in England have been threatened?” John
John, it is entirely possible. How credible is it that David Kelly was assassinated (in the UK)? It is possible. Princess Diana alleged that she had threatened by Nicholas Soames. What do you think the SAS and SBS get up to, in their ‘spare’ time?
Don’t forget the parliamentary election deposits Jerry Sutton lost, and the need she has for new ones.
And then there are possibilities for foreign agents, like the kidons which apparently took out Stephen Hilder and Kelly.
Oh right, Be’el, etc
I was suggesting keeping the thread open, nothing more. Since the general media tendency is to let the topic die an, er, natural death.
Could this have been Jacky’s cup, and then the video was cropped when it was replaced by another one?
By cropped, I meant the aspect ratio of the video had been reduced, so that in the Mirror version less was seen at the edges than in the state-sponsored original. What appears to be going on is that S. appears stage left through an opening, rotates to the desk, where the cup already is, and is immediately met there by Ms Pink/Orange*. Who picks up the cup as S. speaks to the staff seated at the desk. Her attitude suggests that she is airport floor management, knows the staff at the desk, and doesn’t like the place to look scruffy. The soundtrack would perhaps include three very Turkish ‘tuts’. OTOH, her arrival from another direction precisely coinciding with S’s arrival, her quick check in the direction S has come from before returning to the desk and her almost telepathic realisation that S is going through the wrong barrier, could give rise to speculation.
Perhaps you can identify the location of that desk, Trowbridge? Is this the final security barrier before boarding? The green light suggests it might be, and it doesn’t seem to be part of the passport control or checkin complex. Or maybe it’s not in Departures at all, but records her arrival? Are the two ladies in burqas going to the toilet? The sign is monolingual, so perhaps not, but the camera’s crap. And the fella on the desk is waving them through that exit – imperiously, although they were plainly going there anyway.
What fun speculation is. Perhaps the removal of the cup was a signal to someone following S? The guy in the chair didn’t look as if he’d get up for an earthquake, let alone to place his empty cup on the desk, and the woman would hardly have put it well out of her own reach. Ms Pink knew where it was, though…
*Ms. Pink/Orange…think your video settings might stand revision…
And now this:
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=tr&u=http://www.gercekgundem.com/medya/163982/kayip-66-dakika-supheleri-artirdi&prev=search
Better Turkish speaker than I needed for getting everything from this….Decoding a fragment from the original:
Soruşturmayla ilgili ‘Kapalı Devre İzleme Tutanağı’na göre, 23:15’te uçağa geçmesi gereken Sutton’ın 23:16.43 ve 00:22:21 arasındaki görüntülerine ulaşılamadı.
GoogleTranslate reads the time in bold incorrectly and takes the first colon as a sentence break. What it seems to say is that there is no available video footage after 23:16:43.
However, the main points are clear from the headlines:
1. No CCTV after 23.16
2. No records of who the Russians were who found her
3. A security guard said he had, but hadn’t seen her (hanging?)
4. Sutton’s feet were touching the floor – the door hook only gave a 7 cm drop (though personally I don’t think this is a serious objection)
What seems to be the final video clip shows S. walking, with a carrier bag acquired in the airport, towards the buffet stand in what is almost certainly the airside departure area, and right at the end of the clip taking a position next to the stand suggesting that she is about to order something there. This is, if Gerçek Gündem is correct, and if this is the last of the CCTV record, around 2315.
One line of speculation says that as she allegedly slept through her flight call, this would have been a good point to slip something into her elma çay, to put her out for a while, maybe, and/or possibly to give her a strong urge to pee, starting in half an hour, and continuing at intervals for hours thereafter – which is what loop diuretics do. This line ensures that she doesn’t go to Irbil, and is then certain to be in the right place to ensure she never goes to Irbil.
Cumhuriyet is also carrying this. Appears to be a reporter, Duygu Güvenç, not agency.
http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/turkiye/394871/Kayip_66_dakika_supheleri_artirdi.html#
Doğan is a name that has appeared before:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/10/iwpr/comment-page-1/#comment-558179
Here’s another Doğan:
http://egerin.com/news/newsdetail?url=http%3A%2F%2Fanfenglish.com%2Fnews%2Fyoung-woman-shot-by-police-in-istanbul-dies&nid=153220
RIP.
Talking of journalistic freedom, which Jacky Sutton was – and doing something about it –
http://en.cihan.com.tr/en/ak-party-govt-moves-to-seize-critical-media-holding-ahead-of-polls-1920299.htm
I can feel my opinion shifting.
Can you imagine Jacky’s brother Ian, and her sister Jenny agreeing about anything, especially her mysterious killing, when he was apparently a candidate for the English Democrats in Barnsley in the General Elections of 2010 and 2015, and Jenny was one for the Trade Unions and Socialist Coalition in Tottenham at the same time?
Must have taken massive intervention to make them agree that she committed suicide.
Must have taken massive intervention to make them agree that she committed suicide.
The FCO’s pretty good at that. Less massive than silver-tongued, though. And fringe-party members have always received special attention from security. Unfortunate incidents in their past are routinely recorded, just in case. Not inexplicable.
Absolutely, Ba’al Zevul.
Turkey is said to be ferrying Jihadists to the Front and is said to be helping Jihadists in myriad ways. Any journalist who blows the lid on this becomes a target.
This is why I said last week that we really need to know exactly what Sutton was working on.
I find it distinctly odd that both her employer and her family did a volte face so abruptly, from one extreme to another, in 24 hours and that both made such public statements to that effect. I don;t trust video footage. I’m not sure why they would. It took many moths to work out that the Metropolitan Police in London had lied about the shooting of Menezes. If his family had simply accepted the Met’s official explanation, they would have bought all the deliberately constructed lies. And that was what happened when a terrible mistake was made. Think about how much more devious it would be, when there was an assassination. The sensible, the logical, thing to do would be to reserve judgement until all investigations, including toxicology, etc. had been completed. I find the fact that this has not happened, itself to be deeply suspicious.
Probably relevant:
http://www.worldnewsenespanol.com/309_hispanic-world/3421856_erdogan-threatens-to-intervene-against-kurdish-administration-in-syria.html
Trouble is, if Turkey falls apart, the regional crisis widens catastrophically. We have to be very, very nice to Erdoğan. Simultaneously we have to be nice to the Kurds, while Erdoğan isn’t, nasty to Assad, as Erdoğan is too, and highly equivocal about Daesh because we don’t want Iran and prefer even the Saudis. The neocon line is highly critical of Erdoğan….I call FUBAR.