Thoughts for Easter 532

We are off to spend a chilly but picturesque Easter at Kyle of Lochalsh. I shall be taking a total break from thinking great thoughts until Tuesday. I shall also again wonder why in my youth chocolate Easter eggs easily came apart into two neat halves, whereas nowadays they are fused and have to be smashed.

If you want to hear me on somewhat more serious subjects, this was my conversation early this week with Michael Greenwell on prospects for Independence, the banality of evil and a few other topics.

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532 thoughts on “Thoughts for Easter

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  • Loony

    The number of insane policies enacted in Saudi Arabia are too legion to document.

    For those with an interest it should be noted that in 2005 Saudi Arabia became a full member of the WTO. Part of the rules governing WTO membership is that member states cannot bar people from travelling and working based on purely religious grounds.

    So keen was Saudi to demonstrate that it was in full compliance with its terms of membership that shortly after 2005 an increasing number of Jews were recorded as working in Saudi Arabia. It achieved this remarkable outcome by the simple expedient of fraudulently recording random westerners as Jewish. These people largely became Jewish without themselves being aware of their conversion.

    Their Jewishness was recorded in Arabic on their Residency Permit (Saudi’s are pretty switched on people – being able to read Arabic effectively disbarred anyone from being converted). Residency Permits need to be shown on demand to a variety of public officials including the Religious Police. For anyone with an aversion to being beaten with sticks a good trick was to make friends with an unwitting Jewish convert. Yes they always hit the Jew first – sometimes with such gusto that they sated their desire to beat people such that they did not even bother to beat the non Jew.

    Most (probably all) western diplomatic missions were aware of this practice – but it was not a matter of interest to them. No doubt some have returned to their countries of origin and hold positions whereby they are required to ruthlessly seek out and expose all forms of anti-semitism. After all human rights are a universal principal modified by geographic location.

    Anyone thinking of applying for a job in the Saudi Arabian fire brigade would be well advised to read this first

  • Loony

    One of the main attractions of the EU is how it has developed such high minded principals and how it is prepared to defend those principals. For example it imposes economic sanctions on Russia – because Russia does not like Nazi’s in Ukraine (or anywhere else but Ukraine is a bit too close for comfort). Obviously in a culture that is in favor of diversity there must be a place for Nazi’s – and that place is Ukraine. Even though these sanctions hurt the citizens of the EU it is a price well worth paying.

    However Saudi Arabia remains free to enact state polices of beating Jews and burning women and sanctions there come none. Why is this? Is it because diversity demands that there be a place for beating Jews and burning women, and that that place is Saudi Arabia.

    I have always admired people of principal – and you rest assured that the people of these principals will get the kind of institutions that they deserve.

  • Loony

    Some people here have expressed the view that in order to minimize the number of terrorist atrocities that further increased security and surveillance would be a good idea.

    What would be a good idea is explaining how security or surveillance will counteract beliefs that lead to actions like this

    • Habbabkuk (telling it like it is)


      Well, you yourself obviously believe they won’t and you’re probably right.

      Do you therefore draw the conclusions that security and surveillance are just a waste of time and money?

      • Loony

        You obviously need some security – there will always be criminals.

        If you assume that all people equally likely to carry out terrorist acts then you will waste a lot of time, money and effort. If, as some people seem to suggest, you are involved in security (or even of you are just averagely intelligent) then you will know where this stuff is coming from, and who is directly sponsoring it.

        The problem is that by following a wholly conflicted foreign policy then the indirect sponsors are in fact the very western governments who claim to be wholly opposed to the consequences of such belief systems. This is not hard to grasp and because people grasp the concept (but don’t fully understand the detail) then some people make the leap to various conspiracy theories, some of which are more ludicrous than others.

        A proliferation of conspiracy theories has the happy consequence of diverting inquiry from the underlying causes of the growing security problems that face the population.

        You need to root out the mostly wahabbi ideology that gives rise to insane behaviors contemporaneously with surveillance of people who are already true believers. It is known who these people are – by and large they are not Millwall supporters and they are not called Jimmy.

        This can only be achieved if there is a comprehensive change in foreign policy and people that have committed crimes, or are reasonably suspected of having committed crimes (like the people responsible for invading Iraq, toppling the government of Libya and supporting the funding of ISIS) are held to account by a legal system that remains essentially fit for purpose.

        That none of this will happen means that only response left available will be for someone to throw away ever more of my personal possessions in a variety of European and North American airports. All of this total waste of resources will then be spun by some spiv PR firm as constituting a serious response to the deteriorating security situation…….then someone else will get blown up.

  • fedup

    Well, well, the Brazilians are now on the shit list too.

    For the duration of last month the appointed “ambassador” of zionistan to that country (Brazil) has not been given approval (agerement) by those antisemi……. Brazilians. That is because those pesky Brazilians hold that the “ambassador” was the head of the land stealing, child murdering, old women beating zionist ethnic cleansing council of the zionist thugs known as the Yesha* council. This “council” is an evolution of the “Bloc of the Faithful” aka “Gush Emunim” who are in fact an ethnic cleansing organisation set up to promote Jewish settlement in the rest of the occupied Palestine, mainly the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Needless to point out that these land stealer don’t even acknowledge there is a nation of Palestine or any lands which were called Palestine**.

    I am digressing, the appointment of the “ambassador” was celebrated by the apartheid loving lot in zionistan, as favours were bestowed upon them by the that chief psychotic in charge nat an yahoo. However the wannabe “ambassador” whose dreams of lording it over in those foreign lands and enjoying the drudgeries of sipping cool Piña colada while ogling the the microkini clad Brazilian babes, were coming to naught, was not easily persuaded to go back to the heimat in “Judea and Samaria”. Thus post a great deal of horse-trading and some strategic withdrawal (retreat for anyone else) the apartheid agent Dani Dayan has been appointed into the job of the as Consul General in New York.

    This of course is the same Dayan that has maintained throughout that there is no nation of Palestine and anyone who contends so, is talking out of their bonnet! Not bad for a consul general to be appointed to New York.

    Meanwhile the Brazilians are on the shit list for as the “Jewish Internet Offence Defense Force” are getting ready to do their voodoo that they are apparently “best” at, disrupting the Brazilian cyber space with their presence.

    * Yesha is an acronym for Yehuda Shomron, Aza, that translates to “Judea Samaria and Gaza”

    ** Thus the land registry records that is the Bible for the rest of us holds Samaria to be the entire west bank on one side and to include Gaza on the other side, case solved and the ethnic cleansing finished until there is a need for more lebensraum. In that case the said pieceful lot would go for a piece of Lebanon, a piece of Syria, a piece of Jordan and then there always is Iraq to have a piece of.

  • John Goss

    Just before I hit the sack I thought I would share this with you. Both MH17 threads are closed for comments. When this evil event took place Mike commented about the cosy coincidence of the Israeli attacks on Palestine and the downing of MH17. Nearly everybody on this blog was only too happy to blame the Russians and separatists. Nearly two years later and still no news as to who did it. The lone US family has asked Kerry to supply the details he said the US had regarding the shooting down of the plane. Kerry has refused.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Certainly not me, as I thought from the beginning that the Ukjrainian military shot it down with a ground missile, mistaking MH17 for President Putin’s Suhkoi-100, taking him back to Russia.

      • fred

        President Putin doesn’t use a Suhkoi-100, he flies in a wide bodied Ilyushin Il-96, a four engined plane not two like the 777. A Suhkoi would have had to refuel around six times between Brazil and Moscow, the Ilyushin does it in one.

        • Trowbridge H. Ford

          President Putin has a Suhkoi-100 which he uses for short flights like when he was flying back to Russia from Switzerland, not Brazil, on July 14,2014.

          Just google images of it on Google.

          Why invent stuff?

          • Trowbridge H. Ford

            My service providers will not allow me to see pages on wikipedia, so I have had to reconstruct what happened between Tuesday, July 15, 2014 when BRIXMIS agreed to its development bank, and Putin left.

            How he went, I cannot find out, but the flight to Moscow from Brazil is not non-stop, so he stopped somewhere in Europe, apparently Switzerland, and took his Sukhoi-100 from there.

  • Silvio

    Fortunately for some terrorist leaders, not all of then have to live with the constant anxiety that at any moment a drone launched hell fire missile could suddenly crash through their bedroom window, or take out their limousine while on the way to another profitable speaking engagement, or blow their luxury SUV and its occupants to bits while on the way to the country club for a round of golf.

    Iraq Invasion – Anniversary of The Biggest Terrorist Attack in Modern History
    By Felicity Arbuthnot

    Since terrorism’s tragedy is again in the news, it is timely to revisit perhaps one of the biggest acts of terrorism in modern history – the illegal invasion and destruction – ongoing – of Iraq.

    March 20th marked the thirteenth anniversary of an action resulting in the equivalent of a Paris, Brussels, London 7th July 2005, often multiple times daily in Iraq ever since. As for 11th September 2001, there has frequently been that death toll and heart break every several weeks, also ongoing.

    America and Britain have arguably engaged in and generated the legacy of one of the longest recorded attacks of terrorism since World War Two.

    There are no minutes silences or Eiffel Tower bathed in the colours of the Iraqi flag – or indeed those of the other ongoing Western engineered catastrophes, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, or for the US-UK complicity in the human carnage in Yemen, or for the forty three dead and two hundred and thirty nine injured in Beirut in November, reportedly by ISIS, the day before the Paris attack.

    • Republicofscotland


      Thank you for that link, I’d like to add that after the illegal invasion of Iraq, there then followed the sanctions by the UN, which caused thousands more deaths. That atrocity was followed by the food for oil programme, which saw thousands more die.

      I’ll never forget what, the US Secretary of State, said when questioned on the needless deaths of thousands of women and children in Iraq.

      Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

      Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price–we think the price is worth it.

      Albright made no attempt to deny the figure, posed by Stahl.

      • fred

        The sanctions and food for oil program were before the invasion of Iraq not after. They followed the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

        • Republicofscotland

          Yes we know that but the programme continued right up until the 2003 invasion. It then became the responsibility of the Coalition Provisional Authorty, Britain and the United States under the (1949 Fourth Geneva Convention) became the responsible occupying powers, to administer aid.

          However, In addition to criticism of the basic approach, the programme suffered from widespread corruption and abuse. Throughout its existence, the programme was dogged by accusations that some of its profits were unlawfully diverted to the government of Iraq and to UN officials. These accusations were made in many countries, including the US and Norway.

        • Republicofscotland

          I’m rather flabbergasted Fred, that, you didn’t condemn Albrights remarks, but instead chose to nitpick, so to speak on a minor point. How easily you ignore the deaths of some many, without a condeming word, it speaks volumes about your position.

          More LibDems award themselves thousands of pounds from the JRRT.

          But then why wouldn’t they, with the likes Alistair Carmichael in their ranks.

          • fred

            What makes you think I didn’t condemn Albright’s remarks? I seem to recall I was quite vocal about it at the time, 20 years ago in 1996.

  • Mark Golding

    The War on Syria has relied on a level of mass disinformation not seen in living memory. In seeking ‘regime change’ Britain sought to hide their hand, using proxy armies of ‘Islamists’, together with propaganda from BBC Radio 4 News demonising the Syrian Government and constantly accusing it of atrocities. In this way Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, a mild-mannered eye doctor, became the next Saddam Hussain in this chaotic world.

    The popular myths of this war – that it is a ‘civil war’, a ‘popular revolt’ or a sectarian conflict, hide a murderous spree of ‘regime change’ across the region. The attack on Syria was a necessary consequence of Westminster’s ambition, stated openly in 2006, to create a ‘New Middle East’. After the destruction of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, Syria was next in line in the corridors of UK power moved and accentuated with recommendations from the Henry Jackson Society.

    Five years into this war the evidence is quite clear and must be set out in detail. The terrible massacres were mostly committed by western backed ex SAS mercenary trained jihadists, then blamed on the Syrian Army. The western media and many western NGOs parroted the official line. Their sources were almost invariably those allied to the ‘jihadists’. Contrary to the myth that the UK/US/IS axis now have their own ‘war on terror’, those same powers have backed every single anti-government armed group in Syria, ‘terrorists’ in any other context, adding thousands of ‘jihadis’ from countries such as Iraq, Israel, France and Saudib Arabia.

    Albeit in Syria this war has confronted a disciplined national army which did not disintegrate along sectarian lines. Despite terrible destruction and loss of life, Syria has survived, deepening its alliance with Russia, Iran, the Lebanese Resistance, the secular Palestinians and, more recently, with Iraq. The tide has turned against Britain and Washington, and that will have implications beyond Syria.

    As British citizens we have been particularly deceived by this dirty war, reverting to our worst traditions of intervention, racial prejudice and poor reflection on our own histories.

    With intimate knowledge from two British security contractors working out of Jordon and now a sole voice from one-leg John. I will elucidate the Syrian war deception from 2011 to pivotal moment when Palmyra, a cradle of civilisation was liberated from terrorist tyranny and given back to world heritage.

    • John Goss

      Iraq and Libya too Mark. It feels pretty bad to live in your own country when its government comprises war-mongering thieves. I can imagine how non Nazi Germans must have felt.

      Like you though I am pleased Russia provided cover to restore Palmyra to its government. Western countries have been invited by Russia to help with the discovery and making safe of the mines and booby-traps left by ISIS. Meanwhile one of the forces behind the rise of ISIS, David Cameron, is in Lanzarote after advising we poor people to take a holiday in the north of England. I don’t want him back. What about you?

    • Node

      SNP being sued for racial discrimination.

      What have they being doing? Selectively publicising news items to present an unfairly biased impression of a specific nationality? They should be ashamed of themselves.

        • Node

          “The SNP are not Scotland”

          Didn’t say they were. I was merely offering the opinion that it would be shameful if the SNP or anyone else attempted to mislead people by deliberately distorting the news.

          • fred

            Or if they were to say someone wasn’t qualified to organise a Burn’s Night supper because they weren’t born in Scotland.

          • Node

            “Or if they were to say someone wasn’t qualified to organise a Burn’s Night supper because they weren’t born in Scotland.”

            I agree, but it’s an irrelevant point because they didn’t say that. Anybody who says they did is distorting the news.

        • fred

          Talking of the press why no mention of this on the BBC website? This is blatant BBC pro SNP bias.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Hope the gathering at McRae’s anniversary cairn this year takes seriously what Captain Simon Hayward wrote about himself and Forbes Cay-Mitchell as it is most revealing about who killed Willie.

    • Trowbridge H. Ford

      Just to put the explosiveness of covert tests around the Isle of Skye, just think of what was going on at the British Underwater Test and Evaluation Centre (BUTEC) while the Anglo-Americans kept up a wave of anti-Soviet propaganda about intrusions which Ola Tunander has shown to be completely fabricated in The Secret War Against Sweden.

      Perhaps the most telling bit is to find out that the Americans were testing their own Whiskey Class sub there after the famous fiasco a few years earlier about a real Soviet class Whiskey sub in Sweden aka Whiskey on the Rocks.

      Washington was clearly up to no good in hanging a big one on Moscow, as any viewing of BUTEC operations off Skye would demonstrate.

  • glenn_uk

    Suhayl: Sorry you’re feeling down, it’s understandable. You might like this interview with the always excellent and well informed crew at :

    I found it quite illuminating, anyway.

    Terror attacks in Lahore on Easter Sunday. Tension between the Pakistani government and the hardline Islamists groups regarding the national recognition of minority religious holidays. The evolving relationship between Pervez Musharraf and radical terror. The “they must’ve had this coming” attitude toward terrorism in Pakistan. Valuing all victims in the war on terror regardless of race and religion. Rafia’s Decolonising Education. Reclaiming decolonization away from terrorist ideologies. The toll taken by the politicization of “human rights,” which only seem to matter in countries we want to intervene in. Holes in the human rights framework.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Dear fellow-contributors, Fed Up has just asserted on this blog that it is his opinion that I am not British. What are people’s views on this assertion?

    • glenn_uk

      I’m certainly not English, being a Celt. That makes me less than British in the eyes of much of the more Establishment minded in this country. It’s a question of never quite “being one of us”, as far as they’re concerned. To which I would say, “Thank the lord for that.” You too wouldn’t pass their “one of us” test, and I think all the more of you for it. You’re as British as your passport says you are. If anyone wants to belittle themselves with prejudice and insult to the contrary, that’s their problem, not yours.

    • fedup

      Saadi how do you manage to go around with with that chip on your shoulder?

      After reading your puerile and weak diatribe in the answer to my forwarded points, you prove the fact that you are not comprehending what is written and have an aversion to any new notions. As ever slogans abound:

      Have you stepped outside your door and taken a brief glance at contemporary Britain?

      Your jaundiced world view cannot interpret the incoming nuanced data as anything else, other than hatred. That is without an irony having whined on: “brown people should be Natives-with-a-capital-N” you then go ahead and answer to an image that you conjured up. The image of little old man/fat slob couch potato sitting in his bungalow/flat with a union jack fluttering outside in the yard. But still this is not making sense even to yourself, hence you then table the question/assertion;

      you protect – you seem entirely comfortable with – clerical fascist whose link with ‘Britain’ is, well, tenuous.

      This is post the umpteen times that I have pulled you up on the labelism that you so enjoy, as in here :
      Your use of “clerical fascism” do you mean to tell me you are also condemning the extremist Jewish Rabbis in this statement? Further does a label concatenating a political concept and a religious concept convey that religion is politics or politics is religion? Or is it designed to heap derision on the religious concepts by equating them with a vile political notion? Your frequent use of this phrase somehow does not clarify your intent for it’s use?

      Basically trying to work out the motivation of anyone calling you out on your mixed up and inaccurate analysis t of the situation concerning the Muslims, whilst being in full compliance with the current official narrative of the oligarch owned media: “Muslims bad Muslims extremists”!

      You have failed singularly to address any of the questions out to you. Instead in line with your pandering to the known zionist shills imperatives; whose adoration of your attacks on their nemesis the Muslims, has moved you into taking up the petitioning the rest of the blog with this latest “contribution”. Do you believe that others should come and pull you out of the deep hole that you have dug and got yourself all muddled up in?

      Your responses to my comments have consistently missed the points that were being raised and instead in a bait and switch effort yet again you have missed the points and are busy playing the victim for the rest of the blog, this latest move could explain why you so readily identify with zionists.

      • glenn_uk

        Fedup, would you not agree that it the job of the hierarchy of the Muslim community, to make it absolutely clear at every level that extremism is toxic, to the world in general? Not to mention Muslims in particular.

        One might have hoped for a severe condemnation from the grandest Mufti to the Ayatollah, every cleric and Imam, echoed down to fathers telling their sons and friends advising one another, that radical action against unarmed innocents (i.e. terrorism) is wrong, for enough reasons to fill volumes of books. To be explained and related to endlessly.

        But we’re not seeing that – why not?

        Christianist freaks kill doctors in America, walk into Churches and shoot them in cold blood. They think God told them to do this. They manage to hide out for a long while, very often, because they have a network of like-minded zealots. That’s the only reason they can remain at large, move around, get support and materiel for their evil deeds.

        Christian leaders give a nod and a wink to this stuff, by and large, because it suits their radical, anti-woman agenda. This is basic stuff, how would the IRA have managed so well, if it were not for popular support? Or any underground movement? That’s not to say Muslim terrorists have widespread popular support, but an animated popular opposition might have revealed this bunch a lot sooner, I’d hazzard.

        I’d really like to know why the entire Islamic establishment isn’t coming down hard on these extremist freaks, because if they are, they’re not only pretty quiet about it, but they don’t seem to be doing much of a job.

        • fedup

          Glenn why such a matter of course prejudicial approach is not even dawning/entertained to be so on/by you?

          that radical action against unarmed innocents (i.e. terrorism) is wrong, for enough reasons to fill volumes of books

          By these standards the US/UK attacks on; Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, ……….. do fit your radical actions or not?

          You seem to conflate as a matter of factly religion and “terrorism”/”extremism” and then proceed to ask for “grand mufti” whoever he may be when he is at home to condemn such actions. Fact is even though the various “religious leaders” have condemned such attacks and evidently is not making the headlines of the oligarch owned media and you of course remain unaware of it, does not cross your mind, but that is besides the point.

          Glenn you then state;

          But we’re not seeing that – why not?

          Why such an obtuse approach, that you find; I am not seeing the ‘extremism’ hence the indignant ending of “why not”?

          More to the point, lets take a peek through your eyes and see what dose Glenn see?

          A bunch of religious Freaks!

          Is this not the height of chauvinism? Is this not the height of “racism”? Is this not the height of self appointment to holder of the ultimate truth? How can you discount so blithely the beliefs of millions of people, and then expect their cooperation too?

          By holding the religious beliefs of the others in contempt, you have effectively shut off any kind of dialogue or interactions of any sort. Although if we are to even mention a particular “untouchables” in less than reverend tones, the whole thread would be consigned to the rubbish bin. However the open season on all thing Muslim continues.

          The lack of clear and manifest understanding of the dynamics of the event is adequately portrayed by Saadi, whom maintains to be a Muslim. Therefore it should come as no surprise to find your wrath and ire as an atheistic individual who is bordering the militant atheism, by comprehensively and dogmatically rejecting the millions of others’ beliefs and ways of life.

          Why don’t you see that Glenn?

          Not content by mocking their beliefs you then proceed to highlight the anti woman facets that is so much in the vogue in the current identity politics era. Fact that what you see is a mixture of traditions imported from Africa, by the Africans migrating to mid east and combining their religious beliefs with their traditions* and propagating the said notions, as the religious imperatives.

          simply put, if we are to be echoing the same unconscious drivel that the oligarch owned media propagate then why are we wasting our time and pontificating on this blog?

          for your information, just to prove the extent of breadth of the religious schools in Islam, it is worth noting that during the thirty three day war of zionistan on Lebanon, the chief imam choice of the al suad pederasts was forbidding his followers of praying for the victory of the Hizboallah by explaining that the god has decided to decimate the rejectionist heretics by sending zionistan to destroy them! How is that for a “grand mufti” pronouncement. the only means of learning a huge and complex issue instead of recourse to memes and the usual Saadi labelism is through careful examination and discourse, an not by the use of Dershowitz name calling and derision that has been the mainstay of the Saadi approach; “clerical fascism”. Dunchyou love the oh so clever boy calling those poopy pants Muslims for what the are**?

          Not forgetting that if it were not for Muslims probably Europe was still counting on it’s fingers!

          If you are serious about understanding this complex issue then let us debate without labels, would you?

          *this is not a unique phenomena and can be seen in New Orleans version of the Christian and Voodoo rites that are performed in that part of the world.
          ** As in evidence Saadi is applauded and encouraged for telling it as it is, by the cretinous zionist shills and trolls.

          • glenn_uk

            Hello Fedup –

            By these standards the US/UK attacks on; Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, ……….. do fit your radical actions or not?

            I should say so. This is state-actioned terrorism. Not done by a bunch of irregulars doing so in the name – supposedly – of their religion. I do hope you can see the difference.

            Re: Religious freaks:
            “Is this not the height of chauvinism? Is this not the height of “racism”? Is this not the height of self appointment to holder of the ultimate truth? How can you discount so blithely the beliefs of millions of people, and then expect their cooperation too?

            Chauvinism and racism? Absolutely not. Being a religious freak is the ultimate equal-opportunity programme. Men, woman, even babies are designated as having some fundamental belief, of all ages, colours and creeds. It’s not confined to Islam either, of course.

            The ideas of millions can be discounted pretty easily, actually – look at the Klan, White Supremacists, what about the millions of followers of the Nazis in the 1930s-1940s for that matter in Germany. Need more examples?

            “simply put, if we are to be echoing the same unconscious drivel that the oligarch owned media propagate then why are we wasting our time and pontificating on this blog?

            Well, good question – if that’s what we were doing. Personally, because I don’t claim to speak for anyone else, I’m not parroting the corporate media AFAIK.

            The “grand mufi” pronouncement you indicated isn’t exactly a call for peace, is it? That rather strengthens my point, actually. Perhaps you would like this counterpart on the Christianist side, known as “The War Prayer”:


            Now – try and address the point at hand. Church leaders (Christianist types) are not regularly calling for individuals to make attacks on soft targets on an individual basis. That’s the governments’ job, with their drone attacks. Personally, I think they should be persuading all good Christians to follow the message of peace set out by Christ, and demand that war is ended.

            Furthermore, their counterparts in other long-standing and noble religions should do the same. I don’t see much evidence of either doing this – do you?

    • Itsy

      Fedup is an ass. What’s more he’s a loud mouthed and long-winded ass, who doesn’t recognise his own limitations. Which are many.

      • fedup

        Takes one to know one!!!

        Limitations? I have forgotten more than you could have ever learned!

        • Habbabkuk (support intelligent discourse)

          That was for Fedup and not for Itsy, by the way.

          I’m fed up with Fedup – why on earth is he tolerated on here?

    • giyane

      Suhayl, under the new program I have clicked Reply to Fedup’s first deranged attack on you on page 3.

      maybe Fedup knows a few Muslims, and maybe they have spun him a line which makes him feel included in their own fedup-ness.

      I don’t believe he has experienced the post-coital experience of real Islam after the chicken has stopped being served, and you realise that they have wet one finger and marked a score in the air for another mug brought under their control. for the Asian imams it is not a question of curiousity about your opinions on Islam, it’s a matter that someone has come under their power and domination, in fact a pawn that they can sell to one’s enemies in the Tory Zionist governmets of the day. You become as hostage to their fascist plan to take over the UK.

      A mindset that thinks that 14 million people being homeless in Syria, for the increase of their power and prestige here in the UK and there in the Middle east to which they do not belong, and whom they despise as weak Muslims, is a mindset that disgusts me.

      Fedup has been well conned.

      • fedup

        You never conned me, so how do you expect other to do so?
        Your are a zionist shill despite your feathers and colours to the contrary. It is not the first time I have come across a “Brother Mohammed”, who with further explorations ended up with “brother Mohammed” to be a J*w from Gateshead.

  • Alcyone: Re: the chief Knut on this board

    Dear Suhayl:

    There’s a saying in AA & Al Anon that alcoholics have “a thinking problem, not a drinking problem.”

    Take good care!

    • fedup

      Brian thanks mate, and yes very true, but go and read what Saadi has written, it might as well be written by an EDL spokesperson. Either Saadi is ignorant of the facts, or he is wilfully distorting the facts. But to take the mantel of being Muslim (trust me I know what I ma talking about principles) then to rip into the Muslims regardless of the actualities on the ground is shameless echoing of the unconscious drivel splattered in the oligarch owned media.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

    Can you believe all the rubbish about the Easter Uprising, starting a century of revolutions against colonialism?

    Actually, it was British overkill which made the revolt worthwhile.

    If they had just accepted the unconditional surrender by the remaining rebels, and locked them up for several years, that probably would have been the end of it.

    For those who surrendered, it would have been far different if they had been killed in a final, last stand.

  • fedup

    @ Glenn_uk March 30, 2016 at 14:19.

    I enjoyed your war prayer, you are preaching to the choir there, but that is besides the point, although you still insist on calling these people as religious freaks and equate them with KKK.

    Let me point out to you that Islamic world is not a homogeneous mass. Catholics do have their Pontiff, and are highly organised but Islamic world does not have any such an entity. Although that is not for the want of trying, the al suad pederasts are trying to sow chaos and bring about a “caliphate” and lord it over all the Muslims. Hence their current trillion dollar investment in wars across the arc of instability.

    If you are to start a debate then you must show respect for the beliefs and imperatives of religious people too. Through disrespecting and name calling nothing is going to be achieved other than furthermore use of labels and throwing around “fascist” that is the pastime of the frustrated zionists whose imperatives are dictating to promote a religious war to the detriment of the Muslims and Islam. This sits in nicely with the banksters who take a very dim view of any kind of collective, as any predator would know only by scattering the herd around and they can pick on the individual members and proceeds to feast unhindered.

    Taking the point of Pakistan; it is a poor country, with a weak and corrupt government, and a feudal society structures*, with all the shortcomings that is entailed thereof. The only organising factor that exists is their religion, which again is influenced by the salaphist imperatives** that is the evolution of the Hanbali and Shafi’i that stretch the religious jurisprudence to fit the Caliph/ruler of the country they reside in. This is coupled with the destruction of any kind of manifestations of historical memory that is misinterpreted as idolatry. The aim is in the vacuum of any artefacts and edifices, the induced historical amnesia would render the followers more susceptible to the “teachings” of the relevant “imam”***.

    Therefore to consider that seventy eight million illiterate Pakistanis as per the UN data, to be left to their own devices or in the hands of the sanctioned religious leaders who are the only source of education and civic jurisprudence in the most difficult to reach terrains and far flung corners of that country to be extremists is a nonsense! Furthermore taking away the religion from these souls will leave them with nothing!!! Without god the drudgeries of their lives would be intolerable. Remember no certainty of health care, civic amenities such as electricity, etc.

    It is all good and well for someone sitting here in comfort to denounce these people and call them all the names under the sun, but why have they come to be in such a situation is never of any interest to anyone. The fact remains that denouncement seems to be the main plank of the Western politics/polices concerning these other countries and cultures.

    Now do you see why you ought to respect other peoples beliefs? The old Christian parable, try and walk a mile in their shoes and then decide!

    Are we agreed so far?

    * Some of the feudal lords don’t even acknowledge the Pakistani army and often they have been seen slapping and kicking junior members of the Pakistani security forces.

    ** al saud and Qatari NGOs are always available to help to educate and guide the relevant “imams”.

    *** This can be corroborated in the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas, and the Palmyra and other historical buildings in Syria, Iraq, Libya, etc. The same polices were also followed by Genghis khan and sadly the latter day Mongols the US mechanised divisions in Iraq. Do you recollect the bums rush of “archaeologists” to Iraq?

    • Habbabkuk (support intelligent discourse)

      More drivel from the Great Dibbler (or, perhaps, more dribble from the Great Driveller.

    • glenn_uk

      I enjoyed your war prayer, you are preaching to the choir there, but that is besides the point, although you still insist on calling these people as religious freaks and equate them with KKK.

      Very glad you enjoyed the War Prayer.

      Now… If people want to imagine they have an omni-present invisible friend to consult, that’s their business. But when that invisible friend insists on how other people have to behave, and tells its deluded follower it needs to kill others, then we have a problem. I hope you agree.

      People who think like that are utter freaks. But those who give a nod and a wink to such activity, or turn a blind eye at best, are little better.

      If my neighbour was a dangerous lunatic, who harbours all sorts of dark-ages bigotry and is stocking up on explosives, I’d be inclined to drop a dime on him.

      However, should we happen to share the same religious delusion, we might encourage one another to start “doing something” on our invisible friend’s behalf.

      That’s where a religious leader should step in, making the case it’s never right to kill on behalf of God/Allah/Jehova or whatever sky-spook you favour.

      “If you are to start a debate then you must show respect for the beliefs and imperatives of religious people too

      Why? If your “belief” – the most dangerous word in the English dictionary – says I’m less than a dog and ought to be slaughtered, should I “show respect” for that? Poppycock! I’ll take your imperatives at face value, thank you very much.

      Further on, you say without their religion – without a useless delusion in other words, let’s be frank – their lives would be nothing. Do you think this is what Marx meant about religion being the opium of the masses, and you therefore conclude they’re better off drugged for their entire lives?

      Anyway – we’re not agreed. It is obvious that a network exists within these lavishly wealthy European states of ours, which gives murderous radicals enough cover to operate. They haven’t got miserable lives which requires the delusion you referred to, either. That is not being rooted out, which is why Muslim extremists seem to have fallen right into the trap. The great Soviet threat was gone, there had to be a useful replacement – and quick.

      By failing to stamp out radicalism, the Muslim hierarchy has allowed credence to the neo-con dream of an eternal enemy among us, to bring on endless war, increase the state security apparatus, and dismiss civil liberties as a naive utopian luxury we cannot afford. Thank you for your co-orporation!

      • fedup

        I refuse to believe that people are so ossified that they cannot see past the caricature vision of the Muslims so portrayed by the oligarch owned media.

        Glenn you have not once given the Muslims any benefit of the doubt! Your argument is akin to viewing Christianity only through the filter of the KKK, and carry on regardless of the actualities.

        Those who give the wink and nod, do you mean politicians? I very much doubt that in fact you then go on and in an ironical twist agree that:

        The great Soviet threat was gone, there had to be a useful replacement – and quick.

        Which really ought to explain the current hatefest towards the Muslims, therefore behoving those thinking to stand back from the melee, and think for themselves. Alas that is not the case as you have once more reiterated it.

        The rest is just memes that I might as well read in the DM, Express etc, these are not well thought out or thoughtful notions: “failing to stamp ……………….”

        Fact that necon control the echo chamber we are living in, somehow has escaped your attention, and fact that the said necons operate based on lies and halve truths is also not the issue, yet the ” Thank you for your co-orporation!” snide remark is the ending.

        Glenn can you abstract to any higher level than the sophomoric references you have forwarded?

        Saadi has commercial interests in mind and is playing up to the gallery, hence my clash with him, because I am sick of weaklings taking the easy route by pandering to the zeitgeist regardless of the actualities. His crazy notion of taking to the blog and asking others, akin to a teenager on the facebook playing the attention whore, and asking for to be liked!!! You then arrive and make him feel better by; awwwww poor poor thing, what did the big bad man do to you? Not content with that, you then proceed to argue exactly the same lines, despite showing glimmers of awareness here and there.

        Glenn you are projecting a jaundiced view of the Muslims and you are not prepared to even consider any other scenario, what is the point to continue this debate?

        • glenn_uk

          Fedup, I don’t give people who actually believe in an invisible friend (after they’ve attained the age of 7 or so) much benefit of the doubt, when they allow this sky-spook to dictate their decision making. That goes for all religions, you must have filtered spectacles if you missed the point.

          “Those who give the wink and nod, do you mean politicians?”

          Yes – they’re included. Not so much in this country, of course, but think of the Americans. Their politicians (of the right-wing persuasion) do nothing but agitate for a fundamentalist theocracy, their stooges in the media crank up the hatred towards anyone not complying with such a vision, and terrorism (of the right-wing white Christian variety) is very common. This is coming here, with dangerous moves against family planning clinics for example – all US inspired if not led. As was that freak in Norway a couple of years back, who’s name is not worth repeating.

          A lot of white-power supremacists draw great comfort from the idea of combining nationalism with what they consider to be their Christianity.

          Such a move also allows for the fawning compliance with Zionism, and the atrocities committed by that racist, genocidal and insane protectorate Israel. Zionism is pretty much Christianity without the messiah, after all.

          It seems the less you have to say, the more personally offensive and irrational you become. Your attacks on Suhayl are utterly unworthy of a decent individual. I make no apology for supporting him whatsoever, as your affronts became increasingly mean spirited and childish. Suhayl is worthy of a great deal of respect as far as I’m concerned, but I would not expect you to understand or admit any such thing.

          My purpose in continuing this debate is to discuss the dangers that uncritical religious leadership (of all brands) will bring – real, deadly, life-ending and society fracturing danger. And that’s not just from Muslims, if you still have missed the point.

          Continuing this discussion also allows that your miserable attacks are thrown into sharp relief, to demonstrate that the less substance you can bring to a debate, the more personal and unpleasant you become. You might want to reflect on that. One might almost suspect you want to distract from the real issues at hand, as if you know you’re losing a debate and want to throw around insult and innuendo as a substitute.

          If you’d care to drag yourself back to the actual point, you might start providing something of value yourself.

          • fedup

            I don’t give people who actually believe in an invisible friend

            Great start isn’t it? You are the ultimate bringer of the truth and the ultimate holder of the truth, as per the “god complex” bullshit*!!! You are the only atheist and boy you are talking to a religious fundamentalist aren’t you? (Assumptions galore)

            This is a circular argument, with you following your own dogmatic defence of your own position, without so much as considering the ramifications of how extreme and offensive you become to those whose lives are only bearable through reliance on their religion. But hey you are sitting in the comfort of your own place, hence “there is no god cuz I know” bubble and fuck the rest who believe in such a claptrap. Good! You have started the religious war that you were trying to stop, the same religious wars that it is being promoted so much by the neocons. Mission accomplished won’t you agree?

            So far as Saadi is concerned you are entitled to your opinion, and let us differ on that unless you intend to brow beat me into “believing” as you do!!!! Fact that Saadi needs intermediaries to speak for him speaks for itself.

            My purpose in continuing this debate is to discuss the dangers that uncritical religious leadership (of all brands) will bring – real, deadly, life-ending and society fracturing danger. And that’s not just from Muslims, if you still have missed the point.

            Having made no progress from the initial point , you are still banging on about the same notion as before. Hence failing comprehensively in understanding the dynamics of the conflation of religious and politics that are then presented as only the “religious extremism”. In fact you have mentioned in passing without even registering it: ” fawning compliance with Zionism, and the atrocities committed by that racist, genocidal and insane protectorate Israel.” then lose it by; ” Zionism is pretty much Christianity without the messiah, after all.”

            The notion of discounting physics, because it lead to the discovery of the nuclear bombs, hence it is evil and there is a need for rewriting the physics and discounting the extreme bits!! Is a fair assessment of the current debate that finds religion to be devoid of any value and only a source of trouble! Effectively rewriting the human evolution of human societies without any qualms.

            Fact that once this particular form of a is collective destroyed too, what are the other collectives are left to be destroyed in the haste of the banksters to be the only de facto rulers of the world?

            So far as the rest of your essay goes frankly don’t have the time for even a brief rebuttal, you just carry on being right!!!! This “debate” is the dialogue of the deaf dumb and mute, after all it started with you supporting your mate and it never went any further than that. Did it?

            Over and out.

            * Why this book made an appearance all of a sudden, just at the right node of time, and why anyone can find a free pdf of it so easily around the internet?

  • glenn_uk

    @Fedup 1/4/16 11:28

    True to form, you’ve got off on an unhinged rant unconnected with very much at all, with lots of personal invective, with no small measure of self pity. Isn’t it about time you evaluated how successful you are at whatever it is you’re trying to achieve? All you’ve done is piss your correspondents off, and it’s still not clear what you’re actually trying to say.

    • fedup

      …… unconnected with very much at all

      What is wrong with the above sentence?

      Can you discern the manifest chauvinism in this: ” I don’t give people who actually believe in an invisible friend (after they’ve attained the age of 7 or so) much benefit of the doubt”

      Whence your dogmatic “atheisms” combined with the rest of the chaff created by the oligarch owned media are stung together, of course the only conclusion can be; disconnect, as in the opening of this comment.

      The simple fact is, you are not prepared to accept the minimum requirement constraints for any healthy transaction in any debate; respecting the others belief’s and values systems. Thus how can you be prepared to see beyond the jingoism of the oligarch owned media?

      What you see is not what you get with the Muslims! The crass labels of “clerical fascism” are the inventions of the arch zionists and carpetbaggers, obfuscating the facts and closing down any possible avenues for a sensible dialogue and productive debate.

      I have at least a sixteen page report to write with all the research going into that, and I have not the time to allocate to deadened debates. If you really care to rise above the melee we can explore the dynamics together, but that is only possible once you have started to respect others’ beliefs. Then perhaps you can begin to make sense of it all and consciously explore the various dynamics involved, otherwise you are just repeating the same memes that are currently passed as “wisdom”.

      • glenn_uk

        I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here, Fedup, since we’ve known each other a while. You do appear to be in earnest, though. For the sake of that, I am willing to apologise for the slight obviously implied in the way I suggested some skepticism about the validity of the religious views of others.

        May I suggest another way of exploring a manner of philosophy, where your right to swing your fist ends, at that point where my nose begins. And visa-versa, which goes without saying. Can we agree on that point?

        One real problem I have with the religious beliefs of other people, is the extent to which it impinges on third parties.

        By the way, I don’t believe I’ve ever used the term “clerical fascism”, although it’s a concept worthy of discussion.

        Here’s an idea. I have a lot of respect for the way decent people live their lives, whatever the devotion it is called to. Those who follow a path for life through a good interpretation of a religion, has used that philosophy well. Every Muslim I personally know lives an admirable life, as far as I can tell. A heck of a lot better than the worthless scrotes that live worthless lives off the state, and think it fine entertainment to go harassing Muslims at their work, from my own personal witness to exchanges between same.

        if we’re done with our personal jibes, I’m more than happy to call it even. Hell, I didn’t particularly want a rancorous discussion with you in the first place.

        Perhaps we could discuss respect. I respect people’s aims, motives, philosophies if they’re good, but it’s tough to demand respect up-front. That is probably a failing of my own, because diplomacy requires that from the outset. I don’t think anyone looks kindly on another, because they think them un-favoured by The Almighty whereas the beholder considers themself a Chosen One. That favoured creature out of endless billions for which the entire universe was surely made. Don’t you think that might be a rather smug assumption in any conversation – “Hey, the universe was made for me! You just don’t realise it. Or The Creator doesn’t favour you – you’re just a bit-player in this garden made for me!”

        • lysias

          I’ve just started to read the new book Imbeciles: The Supreme Court, American Eugenics, and the Sterilization of Carrie Buck, which is largely about the 1927 case in which the U.S. Supreme Court approved the sterilization of people classified (often wrongly) as mentally defective. 8 of the 9 justices agreed with this decision. The sole dissenter was the only Catholic on the court, who dissented for religious reasons.

          It’s often good to have some religious people around, just so that they may disagree with the prevailing opinion, which often turns out to be wrong.

        • fedup

          Thanks for the offer of armistice Glenn, and if it is of any consolation, I really did not want to give you a hard time or upset you in any way, but as the debate was a pretty heated one inevitably it resulted in some tussle of sorts.

          Here is an article which is worth reading:

          Prevent gives people permission to hate Muslims – it has no place in schools

          The dogwhistle nature of politics also means that politicians disseminate messages that tap into the basest fears, insecurities, and stereotypes to attract new voters – finally, think about the message that the disproportionate levels of stop and search of Muslims sends to wider society about guilt by association and racial and religious profiling.

          • glenn_uk

            Fedup: Thanks, and peace.

            Much as I dislike battling youtube videos, by way of debate, may I recommend a podcast by the always excellent , on a debate between journalist Omer Aziz and the torture-apologist Sam Harris (atheist) that both of us should find of concern and interest:


            The Aziz piece starts at around 31′ (but there’s some interesting music, possibly by Nas, before it starts).

            It’s a bit different to just setting up a youtube. The hosts invite debate, they’d love a reasonable contribution, or a demand for a debate, or a twitter/FB discussion. It’s not empty rhetoric, it’s a live forum – the hosts will happily accept a serious telephone discussion on-air.

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