The Tories Are Disgusting 137

Albania Andorra Armenia Austria Azerbaijan Belgium Bosnia and Herzegovina Bulgaria Croatia Cyprus Czech Republic Denmark Estonia Finland France Georgia Germany Greece Hungary Iceland Ireland Italy Latvia Liechtenstein Lithuania Luxembourg Macedonia Malta Moldova Monaco Montenegro Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Romania Russia San Marino Serbia Slovakia Slovenia Spain Sweden Switzerland Turkey Ukraine United Kingdom

Do you know what those countries have in common? It is the membership of the Council of Europe, and also the signatories of the European Convention on Human Rights, which is a Council of Europe instrument.

The Convention – which was initiated and championed by the British government – seeks to guarantee human rights to all Europeans, and is of course based on the notion that national governments cannot always be trusted not to maltreat its own citizens and thus peer review and oversight by a supranational court are desirable.

Note that Russia and Turkey are members and are prepared to be held to these standards. The only eligible countries which are not members are the Vatican and the dictatorship of Belarus.

Basic human rights are under greater attack in the UK than in any other member state. We have more communications surveillance, more video surveillance, more organised government informers under “Prevent” and more secret police per head of population than either Russia or Turkey.

It is therefore not surprising that it is in the UK that the responsible Minister – Theresa May – is today calling for the UK to leave the European Convention of Human Rights. It is indeed complete affirmation of the truth of what I have been saying about the police state the UK has become.

Tories are now prepared openly to argue that we should refuse to accept basic human rights protections which Russia and Turkey accept. To resile from the Convention would result in our being booted out of the Council of Europe and put in the same category as Belarus.

The Council of Europe remains an extremely valuable body for controlling East-West tensions – now as important a role as ever – and keeping a dialogue going, on a footing of equality, on questions of security and rights all across Europe.

The Tory party’s innate racism has been shown up recently in its attitudes to child refugees, and Cameron and Johnson comments on Sadiq Khan and Barack Obama. Theresa May is flaunting its fascistic streak.

There is a parliamentary election on in Scotland at the moment. Tories should not just be spurned and treated with disdain. They should be reviled and derided in public with open expressions of disgust, all of them, voters as well as activists.

UPDATE I should clarify that the Council of Europe is not the same as the European Union, it is a much wider body with the above membership.

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137 thoughts on “The Tories Are Disgusting

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  • giyane

    We know the Tories are disgusting, but my local Liberal leaflet doesn’t know the difference between the Coroner and Coronary care. I’m sorry to be pedantic but the two may have different outcomes.

  • Habbabkuk (keep calm, everyone)

    Calm down, Craig.

    You know perfectly well why the Home Secretary has come out with this at this moment. And you know perfectly well that if the govt wins the referendum it isn’t going to happen.

    And now to two points of detail:

    1/.”.. more secret police per head of population than … Russia..”

    A couple of threads ago someone already demonstrated that that was rubbish.

    2/. “Tories should not just be spurned and treated with disdain. They should be reviled and derided in public with open expressions of disgust, all of them, voters as well as activists.”

    Voters as well, eh?

    Good to know .

    But you have form – the tone reminds one of the tone you adopted towards those who voted “no” in the Scottish independence referendum.

    • craig Post author

      “the tone reminds me of the tone you adopted towards those who voted “no” “.
      Yes. This is called consistency.

      Nobody “demonstrated” anything a couple of threads back. Try “falsely asserted”.

      • Habbabkuk (combat the haters)

        1/.There is no virtue in consistently making off the wall offensive statements about groups of voters.

        2/. No, demonstrated – on the hypothesis of there being at least 200.000 FSB operatives for a population slightly under three times higher than the UK’s.

        • RobG

          Habba, you either understand the relentless march into a police state, or else you are an enabler of it.

          I’m afraid that things are so black and white at the moment, so obvious, that there are no half-way houses.

          • Anon1

            “You either agree with me that Britain is a Police State, or you will be put on trial and shot.”

      • Anon1

        I think it was Resident Dissident who rubbished your claim, and he did so conclusively with the relevant figures.

    • Republicofscotland

      “We have more communications surveillance, more video surveillance, more organised government informers.”



      It’s nice to see Craig give you a mention every now and then. ?

        • Republicofscotland


          Yes indeed, no need for Sir John Hermon inducements, when it comes to the likes of Habb, he’ll squeal all day long for free. ?

    • Dark Knight

      Democracy -you fucking prick- is people voting for who they want. The Tories were voted in. I know it’s shit but you can’t go around telling people to abuse someone else for their political persuasion. You are not so liberal. You are the right of the left. Concentrate your efforts on getting people to see why the Labour movement is best, greed is bad and compassion good. Otherwise you can be a bad advert for your own beliefs. Like an aged preacher yelling at people on a street corner.

  • glenn_uk

    This sort of thing is enough to give those of us leaning towards a Brexit pause for thought. Left to the tender mercies of the Tories, we would be looking at some true Victorian values even harsher than the hated Thatcher might have dreamed for. Workers rights, human rights, not to mention higher court appeals, all would be put on a bonfire.

    • Loony

      If you think that the EU will provide protection against traditional Tory policies then you are likely mistaken. Take a look at Greece and the plight of the Greek people. Thatcher could never have dreamed of impoverishing a population so completely.

      If the situation in Spain, Portugal and Italy is the result of workers rights then maybe people do not need these rights.

      Is it not odd that with such a plethora of rights none of them seem to provide any protection against the insane policies of the ECB that are designed to lay waste to substantially all of Europe.

      • glenn_uk

        Fair point, Loony, and the disgraceful treatment of Greece – punishing the people even further than originally planned, due to their audacity in considering defiance of their EU masters – is what has made me personally favour Brexit.

        You might underestimate how despicable this latest set of Tories actually are. Pampered toffs, who have never done a real day’s work in their lives, nor come into contact with ordinary decent citizens. The likes of Thatcher at least at a semblance of what it was like to be in the working class, this lot have none.

        However, Project Fear (which worked so well in the Scottish referendum) appears to be working well for Brexit. I was puzzled that O’Bomber wanted to threaten the UK quite so blatantly. There was a time when the British would have reacted badly to such intimidation, and the move would have backfired. Clearly, the British do not have as much backbone as they used to.

    • Chris Rogers

      Glenn uk,

      I don’t think Ms. May’s comments should influence anyone on the Left not to vote ‘OUT’ in the forthcoming referendum, quite the reverse, the more the Tories move to the Right the better the chances are that we can get rid of the buggers here in the UK for at least a decade, if not more – to be replaced I hasten to add by a government that opposes neoliberalism and warmongering – both of which the Elites in the EU seem quite keen on, as demonstrated by Obomber’s visit to Frau Merkel in Germany. Suffice to say, given the Tory intent to dismantle the NHS, its plain that they have overstepped the mark, and despite all gerrymandering our peers cannot be that stupid as to support the Tories as they further destroy any communitarian provisions remaining within the UK. However, it really is one battle at a time, first the Left needs to gain power, and this alone may take another decade, secondly only outside of the EU can the necessary reforms be adopted to move the UK to a more progressive place to live in, one that caters to the needs of the majority, rather than a minority.

      Indeed, given the existential threat the EU will face if the Remainers lose the June vote, it’s likely we may see some meaningful change in Brussels, despite threats from both the USA and European peers. Suffice to say, just because one is voting ‘OUT’ does not mean I’m anti-Europe or a Little Englander, and I’d certainly not vote ‘OUT’ if the EU were both a democratic institution and accountable to all the electorate in all member states. So, whilst I oppose Federalism within Europe, I do not oppose a Confederacy. Indeed an actual Confederate organisation representing all of Europe should be an end goal, but, as with any Confederacy, ultimately state sovereignty is guaranteed, which in essence means member nations get to pick and choose what to obey and what not to obey, which in reality would mean no bloody TTIP given the majority of European Union citizens are opposed to it, but alas the Elite are not, as witnessed by Juncker and Merkel, never mind Cameron and the fool Johnson.

      I could go on, but the Left’s failure in Europe is to unite behind stopping any further neoliberal bullshite, and if this means providing leadership to challenge or wreck the EU infrastructure, so be it, failure to do so means the Right will pick up the ball, which lets be honest, they have been most successful with of late.

  • Mark Golding

    Veiled threats of absolutism may indeed be another fear factor intended to twist arms into voting to remain in the EU? – Else yes – reviled and derided in public by one would hope a growing resistance movement to ‘miserable Tory leadership ambitions’ or in my words, ‘neocon’ treachery.

    • Republicofscotland


      In my opinion, Obama came to Britain to persuade the populus to remain in the EU, because implimenting the TTIP deal, (which will allow the likes of Monsanto to flood Europe with “Frankenstein” foods) is far easier to do dealing with the European Commission, than to go around European governments individually.

      Obama also fears that if Britain leaves the EU, that other EU nations may follow suit. Obama is using Britain to keep an eye on EU nations, using the “special friendship” to his advantage.

      Finally Obama orates that Europe must do more to aid refugees, this from a man who took drone bombing to new heights. I read recently that Austria had 82,000 live births recorded for 2015, but also had 88,000 applications for asylum. Very few nations can cope with such influxes.

      • Holloway Toad

        Obama came to rally NATO troops to the eastern borders because they want to put all the US troops in Asia, that’s why he came here, the referendum was a favour to Dave in return for Nato support.

        • Republicofscotland

          Holloway Toad.

          You could have point there, however in my opinion I’d say Obama, gave his valedictory speech, in hope of uniting the bickering EU nations, in the name of trade. The US has fallen behind China, as the world’s biggest trading nation, in my opinion that’s why Obama wants to push through the TTIP trade deal to a united Europe.

          As for Obama, and the Middle East, in my opinion he wants Europe to police that area, we are slowly being sucked into boots on the ground in Libya. Whilst he (Obama) confronts China in the Pacific region.

      • Mark Golding

        Yes RoS yet another turn of the thumbscrews and yes GlennUK clearly, the British ‘do not have as much backbone as they used to’ although to be fair the resistance movement .is beginning to flourish and so it must ESSENTIALLY to care, defend and safeguard Human Rights that incidentally are NOT bound by Strasbourg that the ‘NeoCamerons’ tried to apply as an amendment to the original bill.

        The British Bill of Rights has not unfolded just yet but hey folks notice the word ‘human’ has perished in the poisoned minds of the walking dead while xenophobia creeps into our lives from a government that would deport the likes of Craig Murray and other whistle-blowers on a whim, while we, empathetic and generous at our roots attempt to live in a country that disregards the rights of innocent British children, whose interests will no longer be considered when courts consider the deportation of their parents?

        Can we be so obsessed with threats to our lives from outside our community that we forget how easily we undermine them from within… Yes our world must move on yet I believe it is too often we are obligated to hang our heads in humiliation and remorse.

  • Loony

    How does this racism to child refugees manifest itself?

    To take but one example, the population of Africa is rising by 80 million per year. By reference to the availability of resources in Europe most of these new additions will be born into extreme poverty. Is it reasonable for the UK to take in 80 million people per year?

    How come there are so many resources available in the UK – a country that needs to import over 40% of its food and energy requirements. What exactly does it have to sell in return for food and energy? Oh yes weapons and financial services. How surprising to learn that exporting these items further destabilizes vast swathes of the globe. A bit of destabilization (or maybe a lot) can be relied upon to create yet more refugees.

    Turning these refugees away creates more racists.

    Letting these refugees in creates more need for food and energy, which creates more need to export weapons and financial services which creates more refugees.

  • Paul Barbara

    As well as the UK and France criminalising dissent, the bombarding of civilians by Turkey and Ukraine, as well as crackdowns on press freedom and dissent, seem to have effected zilch in any form of action by the Council of Europe or the European Convention on Human Rights.

    • YouKnowMyName

      The “errorists” do seem to be partly charge of some of the institutions. Recall the truthfull reporting by the ceasefire monitors on the Georgian border, who told which way the shells/missiles were falling. They issued their report, but were retired faster than you can say Saakachvili.

      How will Theresa unpick the Anglo-Irish agreement, which installed ECHR in UK Law?, or will internal gladio start by error?

  • Republicofscotland

    “The Tories are disgusting” in my opinion disgusting is too good a word for them.

    In Scotland just now the Tories are neck and neck with Labour for second place in the elections, both are somewhat reviled. The Tories for their slash and burn policies, and Labour for their lies that made, Walter Mitty seem believable.

    If we leave the EU, David Cameron, will have his British Bill of Rights, waiting on the sidelines, to be implimented. He’ll also push for the 40% trade union strike law, though I’m sure the unions whose forefathers fought and in some cases died for will oppose it all the way.

    Then we have the “Snoopers Charter” which in my opinion, if we left Europe would be beefed up to the point, that privacy could become a rare thing indeed.

    Then of course, we come to the judiciary, without EU constraints who’s to say how far the courts could go. Trumped up charges and unjust prison sentences, could become common place.

    British troops fighting abroad, would be free carry out whatever actions against the enemy, without the fear of EU recriminations, I’m pretty sure American troops already have that gruesome luxury.

    • MJ

      Neither the Council of Europe nor the European Convention on Human Rights are related in any way to EU membership. Look at the list at the beginning of Craig’s post.

      • Republicofscotland


        Thank for that info, however I never intimated that they were related in anyway. I was commenting on what might happen if we left the Europe encompassing all bodies.

  • MJ

    “We have more communications surveillance, more video surveillance, more organised government informers under “Prevent” and more secret police per head of population than either Russia or Turkey”

    Or indeed The Vatican or Belarus.

  • fred

    “There is a parliamentary election on in Scotland at the moment.”

    Yes and voters should be aware that Police Scotland are tracking the movements of millions of innocent motorists and storing the data on a database for years.

    This is happening under an SNP government which has been in power for nine years, how can they keep campaigning they are the party of change? After nine years people should be starting to twig.

    • Ba'al Zevul

      As your link actually states:
      Police.UK also notes that data gathered in this way is normally only stored for two years. The Home Office’s National ANPR Standards for Policing states: “Capture records must be deleted no later than two years after their initial capture, unless retained under provisions of the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act (CPIA) 1996 or similar provisions in Scotland.”

      Superintendent Jim Leslie, from Police Scotland’s operational support division, told STV News: “ANPR is a very useful tool in tackling criminality by serious and organised groups and terrorists, as well as in dealing with motoring offences, and a number of significant criminal prosecutions have been secured with evidence gained from using this technology.

      “Data from ANPR is generally only available to Police Scotland officers for 90 days, and if required after this period a special case has to be made and approval given by an officer holding the rank of Superintendent or above.”

      This is UK-wide policy and just as applicable to England.

      • bevin

        “This is UK-wide policy and just as applicable to England.”
        Presumably Fred is arguing that the SNP ought to be doing better. (Or rather, this being Fred, that the SNP claims that it does better but doesn’t.)

      • fred

        Policing in Scotland is devolved to the Scottish government. FOI requests in Scotland regarding the Scottish database show records being kept since 2009.

  • Clydebuilt

    “Reviled and derided in public, with open expressions of disgust”. So you want us to treat the Blue Tories as we do the Red Tories.

    • CanSpeccy

      Typical Guardian bollocks.

      Do you not realize that the freedoms referred to in this nasty piece of propaganda arose first, not on the continent but in Britain. For example, in the fourteenth century, the English were liberated from the necessity of trial by local landowners and granted the right to trial before a professional itinerant judge of the Kings Court.

      Even before the Norman Conquest there was a tradition in England of trial by jury.

      In mediaeval England, women had rights to own property and to engage in legal action, rights denied on the continent.

      Slavery? Whose navy was it that suppressed the African slave trade?

      Torture, abolished in England in 1772.

      In fact, England largely invented the modern world, including the modern view on human rights.

      Of course human rights should be defended. But why assume the continentals, so prone to dictatorship and tyranny, are better guardians of human liberty than Britain, the birthplace of modern ideas about individual liberty and democracy.

      • D_Majestic (Scrap All DOHC engines)

        Mentioned “Sedition”, have we? Tells us all we need to know, little valve-collet.

      • CanSpeccy

        Liberalism as Hate Speech:

        Naturally the racist bigots (who have no sense of humour) have showed yet again why they cannot be taken seriously with comments directly below.

        Sad really, when you think it was those in the past who might have called themselves liberals and who created the English tradition of free speech, of equality before the law, of opposition to slavery, and who drove out the tyrannical Stuart monarchs to make way for parliamentary government are now howled down as racists and bigots by revolutionaries claiming to be liberals, who, in fact, foot soldiers of the fascist New Global Order under the rule of the Money Power.

        But why bother to make any comment, when it will most likely be wiped from the page of, just like my earlier response to Habby the-bag-of-wind-thank-God-I’m-not-the-moderator.

  • RM

    European Convention of Human Rights is all very nice – in practice, however, the European Court of Human Rights is just another political institution which powerful states including Britain can lean upon. Peer review and oversight by a supranational court are desirable, provided they are qualified, apolitical and unbiased, and don’t lack transparency..

  • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

    Wonder if Hillary is already running her election campaign.

    Bill, remember the guy I claim tried to get the Agency to assassinate me for complaining about his friends back in the White House during the mid-1990s, and Hillary are going out of their way to meet up with me.

    Just last Thursday, Bubba dropped by Frank Pepe’s famous pizza parlor just around the corner from where I live off Woorster Square, and now the Clintons have both sent me an RSVP to meet them at a meeting at Wilbercross High School.

    Seems like a setup of a likely serious opponent, and, of course, I have no plans for any kind of meet-ip with them.

  • Alex

    “They should be reviled and derided in public with open expressions of disgust, all of them, voters as well as activists.”

    I think attacking the voters in such an offensive way is a mistake and bound to alienate a lot of people who might otherwise sympathise with your views. It is not as black and white as that. Not every Tory voter supports the views that you are attacking here. But while perhaps it would attract more sympathy generally, I disagree with statements such as “the Tories are disgusting”, even when referring to Tory MPs.
    I disagree with dehumanising language, no matter who it is aimed at. It’s still hatred, even if it’s righteous in origin.
    It’s easy to be disillusioned and hopeless in these times, and yes angry, but holding onto and prizing qualities of empathy and kindness mean that the Tories cannot win entirely.
    It is a shame, because I believe it undermines your reasonable views and leaves you open to ad hominem attacks.

  • CanSpeccy

    Note that Russia and Turkey are members and are prepared to be held to these standards.

    Are we to infer that human rights are better respected in Russia and Turkey than in Britain? Or are we to infer that respect for human rights in Britain meet the Turkey standard now only because of the European convention?

    And must we assume that a European convention on human rights is necessarily preferable to a Bill of Rights drafted in Britain? If so, why?

  • Diodorus Siculus

    If she wants to get loose of the ECHR, then she’d better also denounce the ICCPR and ICESCR. The ICCPR provides stronger protections, and they’re increasingly backed up by binding ICJ opinions – even for complaints regarding individuals’ rights. The UK made a lot of reservations to the ICESCR, but at the time the government was mainly afraid of taking responsibility for progressive development of their commonwealth colonies. They never thought they might need to regress to bone-in-the-nose barbarism, so they failed to provide for the retrograde development dictated by your CIA masters. Face it, if you try to give your people a civilized standard of living, you won’t be able to punch above your puny weight in America’s wars.

  • Nuada

    Turkey is a member, Craig? This would be the same Turkey which is currently confiscating Christian churches, which routinely persecutes the Christian minority, which continues to deny the Armenian genocide, whose president is currently lording it over Angela Merkel as she prosecutes a German comedian on his behalf because the guy dissed him and which – should Turkey actually accede to the EU – could and certainly would issue a European arrest warrant for anyone else who offended the dignity of the Turkish president? That Turkey? Yeah, everyone needs oversight from somebody like that.

  • Anon1

    “It is therefore not surprising that it is in the UK that the responsible Minister – Theresa May – is today calling for the UK to leave the European Convention of Human Rights. It is indeed complete affirmation of the truth of what I have been saying about the police state the UK has become.”


    I’ve just heard her speech on C4 and it’s obviously nothing more than another desperate attempt by Tory Remain to sound tough. This spectacle of pre-planned and agreed acts of ‘rebellion’ against the EU (by those who want to stay IN, like you) has been going on for years now. I’d support her if for a moment I felt she was being honest but it’s all a charade. Your priority is Scottish independence and you’ll print any old bollocks about the UK in support of that aim. You won’t be posting a blog on why you, in common with the virtually the entire UK corporate, political and media establishment, believe Britain should remain in the EU. You’ve already copped out on that one.

    You’re not a Dissident, Craig. Go to Russia or Turkey and run a real dissident blog and you’ll get a feeling for it. You’ll learn a lot more about what it means than your sad delusions about muddy footprints and living in a ‘police state’ here.

    • Habbabkuk (combat the haters)

      “I’ve just heard her speech on C4 and it’s obviously nothing more than another desperate attempt by Tory Remain to sound tough.”

      Exactly right, Anon1 – as I hinted in my reply to Craig at 14h38 above.

      Great minds think alike.

      That is why you and I (and Resident Dissident and another couple of promising newcomers) manage to send the Eminences and their hangers-on fleeing in confusion every time they get too big for their boots.

      • Resident Dissident

        I see it more as a positioning as for when Cameron goes before the next election as promised, especially since Osborne is not doing much for his popularity within the Tory Party at present and Boris is going to lose the vote. May may not be very nice but she isn’t stupid.

    • bevin

      You’re not a Dissident, Craig. Go to Russia or Turkey and run a real dissident blog and you’ll get a feeling for it….”
      The authentic tones of the Empire Loyalist, almost as rare now as the mating song of the Great Auk or the Passenger Pigeon.

      • Resident Dissident

        When you have washed off the indelible stain of your Holodomor denial, the putrid stink of your support for tyrants such as Saddam, Ghadaffi and Assad and the lingering odour of Lenin, Stalin and their Gulag perhaps we might start listen to your lectures.

      • lysias

        Seymour Hersh said in his interview on Democracy Now! this morning that he is bemused by the survival of Cold War and Russophobic thinking in U.S. leaders.

        • Resident Dissident

          I have no fear of Russians I married one, all my children have dual British Russian nationality and I lived and worked there for a number of years – my fears are about the corrupt oligarchs that run that country of which the most senior is Puttin who is a creature of the KGB.

  • Laguerre

    The EU is a much better defender of human rights than the Tories. If we exit, you can can be sure there will be a bonfire of rights. The Tories have no interest in human rights, For them, slaves suit very well, or the closest they can get.

    • bevin

      “The EU is a much better defender of human rights than the Tories. ”
      That isn’t really the point. What matters is which, the EU or the Tory government at Westminster, is more susceptible to the pressure that you, and others defending human rights, can put on them.
      Neither has any interest in the rights of citizens but the one is closer to you and more likely to be intimidated by you than the other.
      That is really the point: the Tories are nasty but they are your nasties, they speak your language, and understand what you are saying when you shout, and they are also inclined, when pressed, to say that they aren’t to blame, Brussels is…
      (It occurs to me that you are from France. Never mind the same is true of every nation in the EU: it pays to keep sovereignty local where you can go and tell those who wield its powers,when you are angry. )

      • Resident Dissident

        This of course doesn’t apply to the various nations within the Russian Federation whose Governors are now appointed by Putin and have to operate in accordance with his Power Vertical – but will you hear the arch hypocrite Bevin express any criticism of governance within Russia, as opposed to any western democracy?

    • Habbabkuk (combat the haters)

      For someone who teaches in a university you seem remarkably uninterested in attempting to prove your point of view – or even to explain it. The stranger your point of view, the less back-up and justification. Let’s take a look at your latest gem:

      “The EU is a much better defender of human rights than the Tories.”

      You can’t say that until the UK will have withdrawn from the ECHR, adopted its own (Tory) Bill of Rights , and a comparison has been made between the latter and the ECHR.


      “If we exit, you can can be sure there will be a bonfire of rights.”

      Pure supposition. But I’ll reconsider if you can provide a relevant precedent (domestic or foreign).


      “The Tories have no interest in human rights, ”


      They do and they have always had (Council of Europe sponsor anyone?) And a lot more than those parties with whose political views you sympathise.


      “… slaves suit very well, …”


      That’s just idiotic, isn’t it.


      Laguerre, I feel sorry – very sorry – for the students you teach.

      IRO your views and, even more importantly, your method.

      • Anon1

        What is it they say? Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach*. Or something similar.

        *with a dose of their own shortcomings.

        • Habbabkuk (combat the haters)

          No, no, Anon, be fair now.

          I know dozens – perhaps hundreds – of academics who are excellent teachers. It’s just that “Laguerre” , judging by his posts, doesn’t seem to measure up.

      • Anon1

        What is it they say? Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach*. Or something similar.

        *with a dose of their own shortcomings.

        • Medieval fwl

          Those who can do.
          Those who can’t do teach.
          Those who can’t teach teach teachers how to teach.
          Those who can’t teach teachers how to teach write education policy.

        • Republicofscotland


          Yeah something like that, I only recall, the last verse.

          Those who can’t do f*ck all become mouthpieces for the establishment.

    • Loony

      You are correct if you assume that Greeks are not human.

      When slavery was all the rage a slave owner needed to buy a slave. This meant that the slave owner was invested in the slave. No such investment has taken place in Greek people meaning that they enjoy a lower status than a slave.

      People in the EU are pretty smart – on the one hand they have the iron heel of oppression stamping on Greek faces and on the other thy have people like you lauding them as a defender of human rights.

  • Medieval fwl

    Conservatives appear to be confused over this issue. Gove backed off a country mile because he is no fool. There was a suggestion pulling out after the referendum would be a reward for right wingers not joining the leave the EU lot, but that seemed a dozy strategy because if your going to go the whole hog and come out of the ECHR it would be a better gaming strategy to do it before the referendum. Suspect Theresa May just sticking it to Gove because as a Brexiteer he knows his supporters want out, but he knows it’s v problematic. So its just a wind up and posturing.

    Given how middle of the road Gove is its difficult to understand why he has gone for Brexit??

  • Anon1

    A note on the ‘Doctor’s strikes’:

    5,600 GPs are on more pay than the PM.

    They are in the top 0.1% of taxpayer-funded earners. They are greedy beyond words and a national disgrace.

    I never thought I would see a doctor holding up a placard reading ‘Hunt Is a Cunt’. A Doctor. Doing that.

    While he leaves his patients to fend for themselves. The greedy left-wing cunt.

    Or more probably uses his £600k taxpayer-funded training to fuck off abroad, or into the private sector.

    And all borne out of student left-wing politics for the privileged.

    • Medieval fwl

      Anon doctors standing together is excellent news. It sends a strong message to VCs et al who are thinking of entering the market on the back of whatever US/EU deal is struck.. Privatisation of the NHS is not going to come about without a fight.

      Hunt is not a clever operator. How long has he been sipping from his poisoned chalice.

    • Habbabkuk (combat the haters)


      I am persuaded that doctors – whose training, as you say, costs a fortune, and is paid for by the state – should be put under military reserve discipline for a large part of their careers. One benefit would be that they would not be able to strike. Another benefit is that the state would – as does the Greek state, for instance – be able to direct them to serve (for a number of years at least) in any part of the country; in this way, the problem of the gravitation of resources and talent to London and the South would be overcome.

      • Medieval fwl

        Paid for by the state? Don’t medical students pay college fees? Don’t junior doctors pay back big time?

        Habbs and Anon you are both showing some admirable signs of socialist leanings and so I hesitate to be too critical. Anon attacking those who earn a living wage. Habbs calling for a central command economy.

        But, on the main point namely HR do you agree, as I suspect you do, that May is just baiting Gove? Is that why you accuse Craig of overacting because he has over polemicized a bit of tory intra party game playing.

        • RobG

          Forget it, Medieval fwl, the people you are trying to reach are propagandists who are paid to post on boards like this.

          Just look at the absolutely breathtaking posts they’ve made on this thread.

          And do you know what the really saddo thing is..? These vermin think that they can get away with it.

          They are all being noted and will face justice.

      • RobG

        Yes, doctors are ponces and scroungers and are of no value to society; much like nurses, teachers. social workers, etc, etc.

        Much better to let corporations run the state and make a huge profit, whilst paying zilch in taxes.

        Immoral parasites is not the phrase…

      • Republicofscotland


        I would disagree with that thesis.

        Doctors like any other form of workers, do not react well to over work, long and stressful hours only lead to mistakes that sadly cost lives.

        Good working conditions are essential, in all forms of business, and the NHS isn’t any different.

        Productive workers, (including doctors nurses etc) need to work less hours, and have better communications with management. More doctors working less hours for smaller salaries, is my opinion is the key, to a happier and more productive workforce.

        In my opinion, the more doctors less hours and smaller salaries idea, could easily be rolled out into the weekends as well, allowing those who can’t unfortunately see a doctor or hospital doctor during the week, see one at the weekend.

      • bevin

        You’ve been at the port again. Or the maid’s jugular.
        Your fascist principles are on display today.
        And you are prescribing conscription, presumably not just for doctors but for the population as a whole.
        Please furnish details or do we have to look up Israel’s legislation for them

    • Ba'al Zevul

      Those 5600 aren’t junior doctors.

      Junior doctors at the top end of the scale can earn in excess of £70,000. But it’s important to remember these doctors can be in charge of teams, making life-and-death decisions and carrying out surgery. They are really only behind consultants in seniority.

      In total, there are 55,000 junior doctors in England – representing a third of the medical workforce.

      You weren’t trying to invoke the politics of envy, were you? How very un-Tory of you.

      I see Phil Green made a decent profit off BHS…

    • Loony

      I was not aware that GP’s were among the Doctors taking strike action. If this is the case then surely you are conflating two separate issues.

      Doctors are not coal miners. You will get away with setting the riot police on Doctors or re-establishing special courts for special offenders. Rather Doctors will simply pack up and head for sunnier climes.Then you will need to revisit Africa and steal a few more African Doctors. After that you can bemoan the new wave of migrants/refugees and argue for more surveillance and state protection from (state created) terrorist risks.

      Aint it funny how you can pay refugees, foreign Doctors, and state security operatives with freshly printed money, but domestic Doctors oh no -no printed money for them because they are a “national disgrace”

      • bevin

        “Aint it funny how you can pay refugees, foreign Doctors, and state security operatives with freshly printed money, but domestic Doctors oh no -no printed money for them because they are a “national disgrace””

        The Tories hate these doctors because they are defending-it’s their last stand- the principles of the NHS. And the ruling class hates that- the idea that the poor and vulnerable should receive high quality healthcare. It carries the stench of socialism and equality, cooperation rather than competition and peace instead of the war of all against all.
        The founder of the Health Service was speaking for generations of the common people, with the wisdom accumulated over centuries of callous ill treatment and injustice, when he said of the Young Conservatives that they were “lower than vermin.”
        Tories are the rats who have been eating our food stores and shitting over our savings since the days of the three field system and the Manorial

        • John Spencer-Davis

          You sure it was the Young Conservatives he was talking about? I thought it was the Tory Party.

      • BrianFujisan

        Well said Bevin..

        A Junior Doctor quits on live tv this morning –

        ” I’ve taken the decision, or I will do today, to resign as a trainee doctor to focus on a legal campaign, legal proceedings to fight the contract, to fight on behalf of patients and fight for the future of the NHS.

        I feel that I’ve got an obligation to do that on behalf of my patients.”

        – DR BEN WHITE

        Check this Brilliant Speech ( Video ) from Denis Skinner, telling J Hunt to wipe the smile off his face

    • Resident Dissident

      If you think GPs are well paid then you haven’t seen what Consultants get. Surely the socialist answer was to take from the GPs and Consultants and give to the Junior Doctors – but as there are not many real socialists here, as opposed to nihilist oppositionalists I doubt such a line will be very popular.

    • D_Majestic (Trolls to the right of them).

      God, you need an overhaul-or at the very least some Forte-Flush.

    • Republicofscotland

      Yes Fred, and we all know how things ended up under Thatcher the milk snatcher, don’t we?

      Thankfully we have a nationalist government, the (SNP) with Scotland and its people at heart.

      The slogan means something now. ?

  • Republicofscotland

    I think that Turkey and Russia, may well be signatories to the ECHR, but, both nations are quasi-dictatorship states, where atrocities, including torture and murder are carried out regularly by the state, unofficially of course.

  • lysias

    Some spectacular revelations in the interview Seymour Hersh gave on Democracy Now! this morning:

    First, the U.S. is shipping 250 French tanks to be used in the war in Yemen.

    Second, when the Syrians had delivered their sarin gas to a U.S. ship for disposal, it became clear that it was not the sarin used in the attack that almost cause the U.S. to go to war there.

    • RobG

      What’s going on in Yemen is utterly appalling. In the western media, Saudi Arabia is featured as the ‘country’ taking action in Yemen (the KSA is not a real country; it’s a fiefdom), yet it’s actually the USA and UK who are behind the slaughter, as per usual.

      People in the West are spoon-fed the propaganda crap.

      There’s going to be another major false flag sometime soon (because they’ve got away with all the previous quite blatant false flags), and you’ll all be screaming for war with Iran and/or Russia.

      You fecking idiots.

  • Medieval fwl

    Off topic but I see from the Times of Israel that Republican billionaire Charles Koch is in despair over all 3 Republican candidates, considers supporting Clinton on the basis that her bark is worse than her bite (something he would no doubt be reassured on by many posters here) and even goes to compare one of Trump’s policies to those of Germany.

    Shocking stuff.

    I have recently been listening to an online talk with Peter Dale Scott. I had not realised that having activated Continuity of Government (COG) after 9/11 it remains in force, is renewed every September for 12 months and has to be ratified by Congress within 6 moths. Is this true? If so where was this reported in September 2015 and did Congress debate and approve this last month?

    Is there a good objective neutral source to read up on this? Is it true the Congressional Committee on homeland security chair is not vetted to see what power add / orders are authorised under COG?
    Sounds like LWT’s 1970s drama The Guardians. Am I dreaming or have things really gone that far?

    • Medieval fwl

      …I mussed out ‘Nazi’ as in Charles Koch compared one of Trump’s polices to those of Nazi Germany.

      • lysias

        He just wants an excuse for opposing Trump. What he really doesn’t like is Trump’s views dissenting from Republican orthodoxy on things like military and foreign policy and the fact that, because he doesn’t depend on contributions from rich donors, he can’t be controlled.

          • Medieval fwl

            Thanks Peter Dale Scott was saying it is in force and has been renewed annually since 9/11. I just want to read up on this and find out its not so. Scott seems a gentle and diligent type prone to understatement rather than polemic but I’m interested to hears views from all.

          • BrianFujisan

            Medieval Fwl

            Cheers…Some more for ya Re COG

            The United States has been in a declared state of emergency from September 2001, to the present. Specifically, on September 11, 2001, the government declared a state of emergency. That declared state of emergency was formally put in writing on 9/14/2001:

            A national emergency exists by reason of the terrorist attacks at the World Trade Center, New York, New York, and the Pentagon, and the continuing and immediate threat of further attacks on the United States.

            NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, I hereby declare that the national emergency has existed since September 11, 2001 . . .

            That declared state of emergency has continued in full force and effect from 9/11 to the present. President Bush kept it in place, and President Obama has also.

            For example, on September 9, 2011, President Obama declared:


            Notice of President of the United States, dated Sept. 9, 2011, 76 F.R. 56633, provided:

            Consistent with section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act, 50 U.S.C. 1622(d), I am continuing for 1 year the national emergency previously declared on September 14, 2001, in Proclamation 7463, with respect to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, and the continuing and immediate threat of further attacks on the United States.

            Because the terrorist threat continues, the national emergency declared on September 14, 2001, and the powers and authorities adopted to deal with that emergency must continue in effect beyond September 14, 2011. Therefore, I am continuing in effect for an additional year the national emergency that was declared on September 14, 2001, with respect to the terrorist threat.

            This notice shall be published in the Federal Register and transmitted to the Congress.

            The Washington Times wrote on September 18, 2001:

            Simply by proclaiming a national emergency on Friday, President Bush activated some 500 dormant legal provisions, including those allowing him to impose censorship and martial law.

            The White House has kept substantial information concerning its presidential proclamations and directives hidden from Congress. For example, according to Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy:

            Of the 54 National Security Presidential Directives issued by the [George W.] Bush Administration to date, the titles of only about half have been publicly identified. There is descriptive material or actual text in the public domain for only about a third. In other words, there are dozens of undisclosed Presidential directives that define U.S. national security policy and task government agencies, but whose substance is unknown either to the public or, as a rule, to Congress.


    • Ben Monad

      “Am I dreaming or have things really gone that far?”

      Slumber and the night goes by fast. Yes. KOCK Bros do seem to be a little nervous. When the bastard was interviewed about steps leading to this crisis he made NO mention of Citizens United Supreme Court failure on the heels of their failure in the 2000 elections to remain objective on the outcome. Scalia and fellow criminals have ruined the institution for all time.

  • Resident Dissident

    Theresa May’s position is just one of gesture politics – she knows all too well that if we are to stay in the EU as she wishes then even if we leave the ECHR we will have to put in place something that meets the same provisions as the ECHR

    I’m a little surprised that we have had no one extolling the virtues of joining the same club as Belarus – especially as its current monarch is now grooming a successor as appears to be the favoured type of governance for some here.

  • Courtenay Barnett


    When you say this:-

    ” Basic human rights are under greater attack in the UK than in any other member state.”

    You simply cannot separate the European brand of human rights in terms of ‘civil liberties’ from what I term basic ‘survival rights’.

    Cuba exemplifies the dichotomy in that one is more concerned about – food – shelter and clothing – long and well before one gets to – can I speak freely – can I run a newspaper and publish what I truly believe etc.

    Not that I want one set of rights at the expense of the other – just making the distinction between where mainly Western Europe finds itself – with its focus – versus the rest of “lesser humanity”

    • lysias

      The Castros’ government has provided not only food, shelter, and clothing to the extent that the U.S. blockade has permitted, but also medical care that is the equal, in terms of life expectancy, of medical care in the U.S., even though the U.S. blockade has prevented medicines and medical supplies from getting to Cuba.

      • glenn_uk

        Not only that, but it has exported medical assistance to many other countries, most often with no reward expected. Cuba has proved itself in humanitarian aid way beyond its means, compared with the selfish, miserable first-world countries we generally regard as superior.

        For its pains, Cuba is labelled a state sponsor of terrorism, a narco-trafficker, a human rights violator of exceptional note, and (most ludicrously) an existential threat to the world’s most heavily armed country. Satire is dead.

  • Medieval fwl

    Jacob Rees Mogg has explained Theresa May’s position rather well. Either that she doesn’t understand the EU because it is not technically possible to leave the convention when still a Euro member, or she is positioning herself for a leadership bid.

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