The Sad Death of Jo Cox, and What is Terrorism? 480

Obviously the human tragedy of the death of Jo Cox, a mother of young children, is rightly uppermost in our mind after today’s appalling murder. There has been much random killing lately that appears broadly “terrorist” in nature, including in Orlando and Tel Aviv, and the human stories are always tragic; every violent death carries a dreadful freight of grief and loss.

But the Jo Cox death has caused immediate and fierce debate as to whether it was “terrorism” or not. This follows closely a similar and interesting debate over the Orlando killings. The questions raised over Omar Mateen, who undoubtedly had mental health issues, and was himself perhaps gay, complicated the question of his motivation, beyond his own declaration of loyalty to ISIS. It is to the credit of the US political establishment that their reaction reflected this complexity, Trump aside.

There is however a stark contrast in the UK. On the one hand we have the treatment of the Leyton tube knife attack and of the murder of Lee Rigby, both of which were unequivocally presented as Islamic terrorist incidents despite the obvious mental health problems of the perpetrators. On the other we have the media treatment of the Jo Cox murder, which there is a reluctance to call out as right wing terrorism. That the man is reported as yelling “Britain First” is apparently much less relevant to terrorism than if he had shouted “Allahu Akbar”.

The investigation is not being led by the counter-terrorism police. Simply put, if Tommy Mair were a Muslim, it would be.

Similarly, when Gregoire Moutaux was arrested ten days ago returning from Ukraine to France for Euro 2016 armed with five Kalashnikovs, two anti-tank grenade launchers, 5,000 rounds of ammunition, 100 detonators, and twelve kilos of high explosive, the media storm would still not have abated today if he had been a Muslim. There was more publicity for the Muslim who owned some fertiliser in a garage, or the Islamic “liquid bomb” plot which owned no detonators, explosives or suspicious liquids, or the Islamic “ricin plot” which owned no ricin.

It is a fact that the only terrorist arrested in Britain in this century who actually possessed a viable bomb and intended to use it was named Ryan McGee. He was a soldier, had a swastika on his wall and intended to kill Muslims. He was convicted – but not of terrorism with which, not being a Muslim, he was never charged. Many Muslims on the other hand have been jailed for terrorism for internet fantasy or boasting which had nowhere near reached the stage of preparation McGee had attained.

Terrorism has not officially been redefined as a crime of violence committed by a Muslim, but it might as well be. Just as the “Prevent strategy” has not officially been redefined as the control of Muslims not fully signed up to neo-liberalism, but might as well be.

Nobody has more consistently opposed than me the appalling use of racism to divert the attention of ordinary people from the cause of their poverty, which simply put is the vast wealth gap to the burgeoning stinking rich. I abhor UKIP, I abhor right wing politics.

I hold that the fashionable slogan “it is not racist to be concerned about immigration” is a lie.

Yet I do not accept in the least the argument put forward by Alex Massie in the Spectator that it is the rhetoric of Johnson, Hannan and Farage that caused the climate in which Jo Cox was murdered. Massie’s article is being much applauded by the Remain camp across political parties. Yet the only place where emotions have been whipped into a frenzy by the referendum campaign is precisely in the right wing Conservative milieu that Massie inhabits. Indeed Massie’s article is precisely proof of that very fact; it is a vicious and underhand blow in the bitter internecine battle within the Tory party. However much I dislike Johnson, Gove et al, to claim they inspired the murder of Jo Cox is wrong. They couldn’t inspire a souffle to rise, let alone the masses. The referendum campaign is more likely to induce a catatonic state than rage. What Massie is doing is giving vent to the vile hatred of Conservatives for each other that is rending the Tory Party apart.

It should be applauded because it is good to see Tories tearing each other apart, but not because Massie is right.

In a move that shows the fuddy-duddies of the Spectator haven’t actually quite understood the internet yet, they have taken down Massie’s initial article and replaced it with a version in which the names of all the Tories he accuses are removed and the new article blames only Farage. The link I give above is to the original captured by

It is sad that Jo Cox’s tragic death becomes discussed by everybody – myself included – in political terms so quickly. That does not mean that I, or even Mr Massie or the many mainstream media journalists involved, do not genuinely feel for her family. It seems to me very probable that Tommy Mair was motivated by hatred of immigrants when he reportedly shouted “Britain First” and killed Jo Cox. But that hatred of immigrants has been fostered over many years by the right wing in the UK – including virtually the entire Conservative Party, not just the Brexiteers. Stoking of racist emotion has been a deliberate long term ploy to provide a focus of blame for the victims in society of the consequences of neo-liberalism.

As I have argued so often, terrorism is unfortunately easy. Even a misfit like Thomas Mair can carry out a successful terrorist attack if they really want to do it. Almost everybody reading this blog could kill somebody tomorrow if they really wanted and were careless of their own life. That is why I have never believed the official nonsense about the thousands of totally unproductive Islamic terrorists we are harbouring, and the scores of plots the security services have brilliantly and secretly foiled. There is not more political death because fortunately the impulse to such killing is an extremely rare pathology.

Horrible things happen in a complicated and unfair world. Unless we see a truly revolutionary social change which fundamentally addresses the distribution of work, reward and wealth and the ownership of enterprises, societal coherence is going to continue to deteriorate. One brand of Tory versus another and Brexiteer versus Remainer are fluff, and not relevant to the current tragedy.

Allowed HTML - you can use: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

480 thoughts on “The Sad Death of Jo Cox, and What is Terrorism?

1 2 3 4
  • Andy

    Here is one, from 2009.

    The “dirty bomb” that disappeared

    The curious tale of an Obama hating, cashed up, nuclear Timothy McVeigh from Maine.

    By Julian Assange (investigations editor)

    It has all the makings of a great story. But outside of the US state of Maine and select counter-terrorism circles, you won’t have heard about it. For this is a story with all the right ingredients but one wrong ingredient.

    On the right side is a leaked FBI intelligence report, Obama’s inauguration, a multi-million dollar trust fund, a woman, uranium, thorium, the first attempt to build a “dirty bomb” on US soil, and, of course, murder.

    On the wrong is the body of James G. Cummings, white supremacist millionaire, found in his Belfast home on December 9, 2008, shot to death.

    After local police attended the scene, the FBI moved in and sealed off the building. Men in protective suits descended on the home but police refused to comment about what they found. Mrs. Cummings was taken into custody.

    Then on January 12, 2009, Wikileaks revealed a confidential FBI field intelligence report on the incident as part of a Presidential inauguration threat analysis.[1]

    According to the FBI report, Cummings had four lots of one gallon containers of bomb-grade hydrogen peroxide, uranium, thorium (also radioactive), lithium metal, thermite, aluminum powder, beryllium (radiation booster), boron, black iron oxide and magnesium ribbon.

    While the radiation levels from Cummings initial device would have not have been physically significant compared to its explosive and toxic effects, had Cummings set off the device in Washington DC, during Obama’s Presidential inauguration, its psychogenic effect may have hospitalized thousands.

    The FBI states it also seized literature on how to build “dirty bombs” and information about cesium-137, strontium-90 and cobalt-60 and other radioactive materials.

    There was also evidence linking Cummings to white supremacist groups, including Cummings’ membership application to the US National Socialist (Nazi) party.

    Local tradesmen who worked at the Cummings home told Maine reporters that Cummings was an ardent admirer of Adolf Hitler and had a collection of Nazi memorabilia around the house, including a prominently displayed flag with a swastika. Cummings claimed to have pieces of Hitler’s personal silverware and place settings.[2] ……..

  • Republicofscotland

    According to this report, Tommy Mair, didn’t shout out “Britain First” nor was he politically motivated. Apparently the eye witness who heard Tommy Mair shout “Britian First” wasn’t even at the scene when it unfolded.

    So why did Tommy Mair, who’d lived in the area for forty years, trouble free, suddenly decide to brutally murder MP Jo Cox ?

    The press however were not slow in using Jo Cox death, to their political ends, with the London Evening Standard newspaper printing the headline. “Remain MP Gunned Down in the Street.”

    In the link, you’ll also read a EU commissioner claim that Jo Cox was murdered for her dedication to European democracy and humanity.

    The tragic death of Jo Cox has been used by some to make political hay.

    • MJ

      “Apparently the eye witness who heard Tommy Mair shout “Britian First” wasn’t even at the scene when it unfolded.
      So why did Tommy Mair, who’d lived in the area for forty years, trouble free, suddenly decide to brutally murder MP Jo Cox ?”

      And why did someone who wasn’t there fabricate his testimony and why did the media give it such prominence?

      • fedup

        There are more than one witness to the events, and there is a witness statement conflation taking place; various sources grinding their own axes based on their foibles.

        The liberal activist paying her respects on the scene today was vox popped and gave the game away; “I am shocked to find out he attacked her just because she was an MP” (paraphrasing). This can be corroborated by the bums rush to bolster the security for MPs as further news about the travails of MPs emerge included the news of a “malicious caller” to Ben Bradshaw who has been charged by the police for committing the offence.

        You are believing/making the mistake that reporters will accurately report what they have heard or told, try talking to a reporter and see how much of what you have said is omitted and what the reportage has turned out to be, that is dependent on the angle of the reporter and the imperatives of the editors and proprietors?

        The “representatives” are no longer representing or are thought to be representatives by the disenfranchised people whose aspirations and hopes have been ignored and left to fester. The increasing draconian measures of surveillance and control are in fact and indication of the acknowledgement of this fact by the current bunch of dear leaders.

        It used to be the firemen and the ambulance paramedics who were attacked and abused now it seems the anger is being directed at higher up the hierarchy.

    • fedup

      No one around here reads the comments and follows the links, the participants would much rather type away and publish. The same link was posted on page one and I answered it. The witness they are referring to never claimed he had heard anything. He witnessed the events in their conclusion and missed the beginning.

      This is a conflation of the witness statements, the events took place in the broad daylight in the street with many people were milling around who saw the events and heard what went on. Tommy with OCD is a white supremacist not an apolitical nutter.

  • Republicofscotland

    “US State Department officials have called for strikes against the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.”

    “Dozens of State Department officials signed an internal document that calls for targeted military strikes against the Damascus government, according to the Wall Street Journal.”

    “The “dissent channel cable” was signed by 51 officials involved with advising on Syria policy in various capacities.”

    The burning question is, will Russia and Iran defend the Assad government, if it’s targeted ?

    • laguerre

      Those 51 officials want to keep their jobs, if Clinton takes power, as they imagine.

  • Republicofscotland

    A very interesting read on the origins of the EU, from a different perspective.

    “Declassified American government documents show that the US intelligence community ran a campaign in the Fifties and Sixties to build momentum for a united Europe.”

    “The head of the Ford Foundation, ex-OSS officer Paul Hoffman, doubled as head of ACUE [below, we’ll explain who these players are] in the late Fifties.”

    “The State Department also played a role. A memo from the European section, dated June 11, 1965, advises the vice-president of the European Economic Community, Robert Marjolin, to pursue monetary union by stealth.”

    It recommends suppressing debate until the point at which “adoption of such proposals would become virtually inescapable”.

    “In other words, the U.S. State Department recommended ramming through the creation of the EU before Europeans knew what was happening.”

    • Kevin Rudeforth

      maybe the yanks were sick of europeans nations wanting to murder each other every other year even dragging the rest of the world into such madness twice in half a century…

    • Tom

      But I think in those days the US thought they could control it (and also has better politicians), whereas as now it challenges their own diminishing power.

  • Trowbridge H. Ford aka The Biscuit

    One can look in vain for any mention of British and American scientific cooperation in mind-control research, particularly the creation of Manchurian Candidates, though there had to be such activity.

    Most important, Richard Aldrich makes no mention of it in his discussion of the Foreign Office’s IRD (Information Research Department) or FORD in his The Hidden Hand: Britain, America and Cold War Secret Intelligence.

    It was so secret that Aldrich would not make mention of John Marks and his most disturbing book.

    Really Top Secret!

    Do you know anything about it, Craig?

    • Resident Dissident

      So really top secret that they only trusted Trowbridge with the secret – heh!


    The BBC have cancelled Any Questions, which i suppose they might say is because of security risks or something. Call me paranoid… But, my first thought was that it was to avoid the very issue you highlight here. Afterall you can’t tell a member of the audience not to ask if Thomas Mair is not a terrorist because he is white, or other difficult questions.
    Then i noticed that the ‘topical satire (the Now Show or News Quiz)’ programme usually on at six thirty was replaced with a lost Hand Cock featuring The Actor Kevin Eldon. Unless the schedule was gonna change
    Call me paranoid…

    • glenn_uk

      It’s supposedly cancelled out of respect.

      I’m very sad about this MP dying too, but it’s seems incredible that the public should be less informed, have fewer debates and voices in the mix, and thereby weakening democracy, in order to “show respect”.

      A half-day long presentation and debate in my local University, on the Brexit question, was also cancelled “out of respect” to the bafflement of many who’d gone to attend it – they had no idea how apparently disrespectful they were just showing up.

    • Tom

      Also interesting that the newspapers are using Jo Cox’s death as a chance to shut down readers’ debates on the referendum.

  • Becky Cohen

    This is absolutely awful and more like something that would happen in the anarchic gun-crazed USA as opposed to the UK. Craig is absolutely right that it is time to take far-right terrorism as seriously as any other sort of terrorism. The growth of neo-Nazi and nationalist ideology, hatred of immigrants and resurgence of anti-Semitism (not that it ever really went away) is extremely frightening yet very often it’s the elephant in the room that society prefers to ignore. Jo Cox stood for exactly the opposite of this narrow-mindedness – she believed that we are all one race – the human race – and that we are a global village that should co-operate as one and help one another. Before becoming an MP, she worked for Oxfam and did wonderful charity work. Over the last few months she was very worried about the resurgence of racism, anti-Semitism, Islamphobia, hatred of immigrants and homophobia. She leaves a devoted husband and two small children who will never have their mother with them as they grow up – so sad. They will of course be very proud of her but they and the rest of her loved ones will always miss her all because of one deranged individual full of hate who was no doubt egged on by people over the internet.

  • Ben Monad

    What, exactly is Islamophobia? Break it down;

    Islam-phobia (irrational fear)

    No. Let’s expand the meaning to;

    The term “Islamophobia” was first introduced as a concept in a 1991 Runnymede Trust Report and defined as “unfounded hostility towards Muslims, and therefore fear or dislike of all or most Muslims.” The term was coined in the context of Muslims in the UK in particular and Europe in general, and formulated based on the more common “xenophobia” framework.

    The report pointed to prevailing attitudes that incorporate the following beliefs:

    Islam is monolithic and cannot adapt to new realities
    Islam does not share common values with other major faiths
    Islam as a religion is inferior to the West.
    It is archaic, barbaric, and irrational.
    Islam is a religion of violence and supports terrorism.
    Islam is a violent political ideology.

    Isn’t it interesting that this extreme stretch and bend definition has been nuanced by the soft hand of progressivism on several concepts like anti-semitism or gunz?

    • Andy

      What, exactly is Islamophobia?

      Islamophobia is racism. Islamophobes see Muslims as a ”race”.

      Glenn Greenwald writes: a standard tactic of neo-Nazis and other various anti-Semites is to cite ugly excerpts from the Talmud — including ones purportedly endorsing Jews holding non-Jews as slaves or lying to and stealing from non-Jews — as evidence of the dishonesty and untrustworthiness of Jews generally. We all understand that this tactic is so vile, unscholarly, and anti-intellectual precisely because modern adherents to those religions interpret and apply (or ignore) those provisions in all sorts of ways.

      Exactly the same is true of Muslims, yet an entire cottage industry of pseudo-intellectual charlatans — including ones who admit to never having even read the Quran — uses exactly this tawdry tactic to demonize Islam (watch this social experiment where people are read heinous Bible passages and falsely told they are from the Quran). ….

      • Ben Monad

        I suggest ‘racism’ is your expanded definition. The average dictionary is more objective. Phobias are merely irrational fears. I can see some with irrational fears toward muslims, but I also see some rational fear based on facts. Can you differentiate the two?

        Personally I don’t fear muslims, but I do wish more of the inclusive variety would organize themselves for public relations so they are not marginalized. The culture does not seem to understand this point.

        • Macky

          Ben; ” I also see some rational fear based on facts.”

          Care to elaborate on these facts ?

          • Ben Monad

            I’ve already answered on this Macky. Maybe you’ll achieve some rational thinking if you go back and read. Make sure you can’t possibly offend some minority.

          • Macky

            Sorry Bob, the only repeat I can see is that Andy posted to you the same link that I did yesterday, so hopefully you will have read it by now; you can’t get away with citing known “facts” if you can’t clarify as to what “facts” you are referring to; just like your opinion that Islam “encourages violence toward infidels and is sexually repressive”, you need to backup it up with something.

        • Andy

          ”I suggest ‘racism’ is your expanded definition.”

          No it isn’t. I’ve met plenty of racists. They don’t discriminate.

          ”Personally I don’t fear muslims”

          Lets hope you don’t meet one ever.

          • Ben Monad

            My profession required doing business with many ex-pat Syrians, Lebanese and others, mostly muslim with some Druze who claim a Christian bent, but they are still muslims They are excellent businessmen, knowing how to turn a profit.

            Attended scores of hospitality meals with them and cooked for them at my home as well.

            They were very happy I was interested in their culture of food, but could not have been less interested in mine.

    • Herbie

      Look at who set up the Runnymede Trust.

      It’s interesting though that with one hand they create every reason to hate muslims, but with the other hand they scold you for doing so.

      You can build up a lot of tension that way.

  • James

    No “Britain first” (or “put Britain first”) ever said…..

    Reports are now being uncovered that “there was an altercation between two men….and Jo Cox intervened”.
    So, possibly “no targeted killing of Jo Cox” ?

    My word…. if those two facts come out as true, the “press” should be hung, drawn and quartered.

    • Andy

      You are saying Mair didn’t mean to kill Cox? He was after someone else? Do you have a source?

        • Andy

          ”There are reports out there saying …”

          Out where? You quote… “two men were arguing, one in a baseball hat…..and she tried to intervene”. Is there a link?

        • Macky

          From the lbc link;

          “And Mr Tahir admitted he was worried for his safety after reports named him for making to original claim. ”

          Just might explain the motive for the possible retraction.

    • fedup

      Shooting is not a personal mode of attack, in fact it is rather impersonal as it is not up close and personal enough. However stabbing is a very personal mode of attack! Furthermore, kicking is even more up close and personal mode of attack.

      Tommy had first beat up Jo then shot Jo then proceeded to stab her in between the loadings of his weapon all the while kicking her in, as she lay on the ground wounded and screaming. This is indicative of a great deal of anger and hatred that he was harbouring towards her. You are yet another victim of the conflation of the testimonies, if you don’t see the whole of the event, and instead have began to zoom in, and losing all sense of proportion.

      Trolling through the early reports of the events; an old man had intervened to try and stop Tommy from attacking Jo and for his troubles he had been stabbed too.

      The multiple stabbings and the planning and preparations of course do not indicate any commissioning, or preparation for acts of terrorism! That is for 15 year old Muslim boys boasting/day dreaming on the fora or 14 year old girls searching for the images of a known and incarcerated terrorists.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    This was a dreadful event. Utterly abhorrent.

    I am in favour of the UK remaining in the EU. I’m not entirely sure, though, why all public discussion about EU Referendum is being cancelled for days so close to the most important election for decades. I understand it being cancelled on the day of the murder but after that, surely, as passionate democrat., Ms Cox would have wanted it it to continue – albeit perhaps in less irrational manner than had been the case recently. Surely it is crucial that these issues – including her killing – be discussed at this time? When Lord Mountbatten/Airey Neave/Ian Gow/John Lennon/Ross McWhirter/Pat Finucane/Princess Diana died, all public discussion of Northern Ireland/The Troubles, etc. did not stop. Quite the opposite. I would have thought that one of the most appropriate tributes to her memory and her work would be for democratic debate to continue? It does strike me as odd and actually as inappropriate.

    • Resident Dissident

      My guess is that the debate will continue tomorrow – and just a guess but I don’t think the lost day and a half of campaigning will not mean any arguments around the referendum going unheard. Whatever the source this is another attack on democracy and a day where all democrats can reflect on what unites us all rather than our differences, and remember the need to deal firmly with those opposed to democracy from wherever they come, will not do any harm.

  • Ben Monad

    Progressives, as a class are Nanny-Staters, so full of love for their fellow man they must protect such from themselves. Tobacco smokers need someone to keep it away. Same for booze. They MUST keep everyone safe at all times. They are Maternal and protective of those who cannot fend for themselves. They know better than you other adults. Comply with their ‘compassion’

    • Ben Monad

      Oh. This was specially crafted for the soft-touch Macky.

      He’s so full of progressivism.

      • Macky

        Ben, I really trying to understand your issue about Islam/Islamophobia, but must admit it’s hard work ! 😀

          • Macky

            Ok, you’re too subtle for me, just hope you can find somebody suitably “nuanced” enough to help you with your issue about Islam !

          • Ben Monad

            My issue with Islam is limited to the silent-majority of peaceful muslims too timid or unconcerned to bother with the tarnish on their image. My issues with Progressives is already on the record.

          • Macky

            Ben ;”We are subjective creatures and therefore subject to prejudice and bigotry, not that we would admit it”

            Nobody would deny that, but having such hardwired instincts doesn’t mean we cannot control them, it’s what we do all the time constantly, otherwise we humans would have wiped each other out long ago; it’s the same as having “impure thoughts”, be it sexual desires or wishing someone dead, nobody can escape having them, but most people can control their instincts; so your point apart from stating basic reality ?!

  • James


    Read my comment. This tragedy may have nothing to do with “Brit Exit”.

    Did he say, what it is reported he said ?
    A “key witness” has stated “he did not hear the killer say anything”.

    Further, there seems to be an altercation that Jo Cox tried to intervene in.
    And she was subsequently murdered.

    The “key suspect” is a “mental patience”.
    He is on medication.

    Has “The News” just “run with” the current “narrative” ?
    Or is this “just a nutter that shot someone trying to break-up his ongoing feud with someone else” ?

  • anti-hypocrite

    Craig what is your definition of “terrorist”?

    What is your definition of “racism”?

    Islam is a religion, not a race.

    I find this article to be a very opportunist one mixing up several things to make them fit to your viewpoint.

    The same sort of waffle written by Daily Mail journalists.

    • Ben Monad

      The velvet glove; tool of progressivism. Keep the peace and brotherhood theme no matter who or what brand of psychopath you are dealing with. This is why those in Federal Penitentiaries have advocates who favor them over victims. Everyone is a victim and no one is guilty of any criminal act except potential bigotry. That’s the Cardinal Sin. Everything else including cold-bloodedly killing 49 people is just a human tragedy that couldn’t be prevented. It was a social accident.

    • Andy

      ”Islam is a religion, not a race.”

      Do you think there is a white race? A Jewish race? A black race? A Chinese race? An Arab race? Do you want to sub-divide the races?

      But then you tell me ”Islam is a religion, not a race.” !

      Do you really think racists are rational thinkers? Racists see race everywhere. They see Muslims as a ”race”.

      • Loony

        I do not know if racists are rational thinkers. I do not know if it is worse to be a racist or to voluntarily fund racists. I do not know if voluntary funders of racism are rational.

        I guess we will find out.

        The EU supports and funds a neo-Nazi racist regime in Ukraine.

        If people do not like the idea of funding racists, and if they are British, then they have the opportunity to withdraw from arrangements that fund and otherwise support racists.

        • Andy

          ”I do not know if racists are rational thinkers.”

          You don’t know if Nazis were rational thinkers?

    • RobG

      LBC radio are now owned by an outfit called Global Radio…

      … who now own about half of all the local commercial radio stations in the UK. The other half are owned by a similar outfit, and both of them pump out non-stop right wing propaganda (the presenters on LBC are all paid-for propagandists, including Mr O’Brian).

      Global Radio stem from a parent corporation in Canada, which has also decimated local media in North America.

      • Tony M

        Shades of the pirate radio stations which sat in international waters, but still within broadcast range of large population centres, using much more powerful transmitters than the earlier pirate stations such as Caroline and Radio London, after the ban on them in the late 60s. Their propapaganda objective was to topple Wilson and get Ted Heath elected in 1970 (and thus take us into the EEC) and so monstered Wilson relentlessly. The ships in some cases were US built custom electronic surveillance platforms, in one case an identical sister ship of the USS Liberty was used, which after Heath was safely ensconced in power, headed to the Baltic for some Russia bashing with musical interludes.

    • fedup

      A hand written piece of paper taped to a window pane, trumps all the other witnesses, now that is one heck of an investigative method!

      Will link up to a Yeti photo next?

  • Je

    The Britons who sold fake bomb detectors round the world… what could be greater assistance of terrorism. Allowing bombers to pass unnoticed past checkpoints guarded with those useless devices? Resulting in an unknown toll in people blown to pieces in Iraq.

    What were they charged with? Manslaughter – no. Terrorist offences – no. Fraud. One of them even got a suspended sentence.

    • fedup

      It is a wonder he was not awarded the queens medal for services to export? The enterprising entrepreneur bought a £14 golf ball detector (dubious one) and then sold it for £40,000 each! Now that is a great service for the queen and industry.

      It is all the fault of the “liberal media” and their class envy that hates enterprising people becoming rich!!!

  • RobG

    In case anyone missed this in the media frenzy surrounding the murder of Jo Cox, the complete sham that is the US presidential election is panning out as many of us expected…

    And to be fair to the Guardian, it was reporting, tucked away on the back pages, that Wikileaks are going to publish more of Hillary’s e-mails…

    … in the vain hope that the FBI will bring a case against her.

    As they foister the ‘first woman president’ on us it makes tricky Dicky look like a boy scout.

    With a totally corrupt Hillary Clinton presidency there’ll be a world war within two years.

    • Ben Monad

      It would be a salient message of consistent concern if there were a post on Orlando with a spittle of similar angst as that shown for one woman. Does this mean one Brit is worth 49 gay American citizens? Of course not. But it is redolent of a superior attitude and regard for citizenry with a dash of holier-than-thou.

      • Ben Monad

        I hope Fred doesn’t mind me becoming a mirror-image of the squatter. IOW’s one inclined toward rankling the zeitgeist and risking the derogation; troll. 🙂

      • RobG

        Ben, it’s a puzzle why you believe the garbage they tell you.

        Please give me some authoritative evidence that 50 or so people were actually murdered in Florida last weekend. Where’s the pictures of corpses, the death certificates, the funerals, etc? Just like the lack of this in Paris; and in particular the complete absence of mobile phone footage of these ‘terrorist events’.

        I lived in London during the IRA bombing campaign in the 1970s and 1980s, and know the difference between ersatz terrorism and the real thing.

        • Herbie

          Best not to be led by what media are currently pointing their lenses at.

          They could point them in a another direction and tell a very different story.

    • Loony

      RobG I share your view that a Clinton presidency will likely lead to a world war.

      But it aint over until the fat lady sings.

      The Russians are supplying Wikileaks with her e-mails and (because they don’t want to die) and are desperate to derail her campaign.

      If the UK votes for Brexit then apparently the statistical chances of Trump winning will increase due to the operation of a technical statistical formula known as Bayes Theorem.

      So it is all quite simple really – If you want to increase your statistical chances of not being killed in a nuclear war vote leave, and (if you don’t know already) learn all about Bayes Theorem.

  • James

    So, in this witness statement (the father of a key witness, relating the story), puts forward yet another view point.

    Jo Cox’s assistant was “in the driving seat of a car” when she rushed around to attend to the injured Jo Cox.
    We have to assume, the fatal injuries had taken place by then, but Jo Cox had reached the car.

    So what was Jo Cox doing before reaching the car ? Before the driver, Fazila Aswat got out of the car ?

    In this statement it appears that the driver was “in” or “getting in” the car.
    Jo Cox was not in the car. Was Jo Cox in the act of “getting in the car” or was she “doing something else” (like, stopping an argument) ?

    The “news” reported that Jo Cox was “chased into a car park”.
    It would appear, she was “heading to a car park”. The girl that was driving her (her assistant) was already “at the car”. So “what” delayed Jo Cox reaching the car at the same time as her assistant ?

    Clearly, there is a HUGE chunk of “what happened” that is not being reported.
    The “assumed story” is that Jo Cox was “stopped, attacked, ran away and was murdered”, but none of that makes sense.

    Had Jo Cox “stopped to do something” before she reached the car that was to be driven by her assistant ?
    Her assistant reached the car, without being stopped.

    On reaching the car, had Jo Cox gone over and intervened in an argument between two people ?
    And on doing so, found herself under attack ?

    …and what of this DISPUTED call out “put Britain first” ?
    Are we being “hoodwinked” yet again ????

  • James

    Put simply…..
    …..if Jo Cox, Fazila Aswat and other(s), were walking towards the car, then why did none of them stop, when Jo Cox was stopped and attacked ?

    Is it because Jo Cox “was not” stopped and attacked.
    She deviated. She went to stop an argument. And at that point she was attacked.

    • laguerre

      You’re foolish if you’re trying to suggest that Cox was not the the target of the attack.

      • James

        And your “facts” claiming she was ????

        West Yorkshire Police have already contradicted the “events” as published by the Labour Party.
        Cox was NOT leaving a meeting, she had just arrived in a car.

        And a “key witness” has said “no one shouted” Britain first at the time of the murder….
        ….something WIDELY reported in the media.

        And your fact are ????
        Nothing ! Just “already discredited reports”.

        Pity the shooter wasn’t Islamic THEN we could have had a REAL field day !

  • Ben Monad

    Macky; Please relate the sum total of your social/business acquaintances who are within the Muslim faith?

    I’m talking practicing Muslims….Ramadan and the prayer ritual.

    • Macky

      Just a life time of knowing Muslim friends & neigbours; can’t see this has any relevance, especially for somebody who only wants “facts”, but is not so forthcoming with his own “facts”.

        • Macky

          Sorry but too many to remember all now, only a handful I still see, still got the Muslims neighbours, oh I forgot about all the Muslims that I have worked with over the years also; your point exactly ?

          • Ben Monad

            The point is you are unspecific and vague. I think you are a liar. You don’t personally have any acquaintance with practicing Muslims. Typical prog. No real life experience. Just orders to the rest of us.

          • Macky

            LOL ! I’m a liar, and this really is not about Islam but “personal” between us ! Yikes ! 😀

        • fedup

          What are you driving at Ben?

          What has that to do with the price of the eggs in the farm yard?

          You seem to be proposing to find the temperature of the sun we need to send an astronaut (preferably a Muslim one seeing as it is a one way ticket) with a thermometer to go there and measure the heat and insatgram the number to us before getting vaporised!

          What line of questioning is this Ben?

          • fedup

            Mate you can make it personal but still that dose not answer the line of questioning you have adopted, does it?

          • Ben Monad

            What is your question? Try to be more specific than ‘what are you driving at..’

          • fedup

            Please relate the sum total of your social/business acquaintances who are within the Muslim faith?

            This question Ben.

          • Ben Monad

            You came in the middle of the conversation. Macky claims he has acquaintance with muslims. i don’t think he does. Simple.

          • Macky

            What possible relevance is it if I have “acquaintance with muslims” (!!), address my points/arguments instead of trying to disqualify me by any means possible ! 😀

          • fedup

            Ben UK is a small land mass and we have a high population density that translates into people getting acquainted with all manner of characters/people and I must add mostly nice and decent people. It is not unusual to be friends with Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Hindus, and so forth, hell I even know a couple of Pagans and Witches, who get naked and dance around their trees in their gardens.

            Why should Macky lie about such a trivial matter?

            You need to think in UK terms and not US terms.

            Your question conveyed to me a nasty undertone that is why I jumped in mid conversation. The stock answer of racists in UK is; “we even had a black neighbour in our street once, he just looked like us except he was black and he talked in a funny way”!!!!! This is to absolve them from the charges of racism.

            Simple fact is as Andy has already gone on record, racism is a class construct that is foisted upon we the people by the plutocrats masquerading as our dear leaders, and the Oligarchs, whom verily believe they own we the people. This is a method of divide and rule, that is pretty much rudimentary predatory behaviour; as preying on individuals is a lot more easier than preying on a united group. The group can turn and bite/kick/scratch/break bones/etc. Hence divide/scatter and rule/prey on the separated and alone members/targeted preys

          • Macky

            @Fedup, it’s all a diversion by Ben because he’s doesn’t want to try and substantiate his views on Islam.

            Try engaging him on Islam & see how far you get ! 😀

          • Ben Monad

            It’s rather easy to smoke out a liar, Fedup. Either he is careless and cavalier in his responses (too lazy to expound in detail) or he is a liar. You seem to ascribe good motives to Macky but I wonder if you’ve met him for a pint.

          • Macky

            @Ben, it’s on record somewhere here, and at Sqounk’s I think, that I stated I was brought up in East London, one of the most densely multi-culture/multi-ethnic areas in the whole of Great Britain, but if it comforts your irrationality to think both that I am lying, and that I need to lie, then so be it, but you must know deep down that your views on Islam must be very suspect if you need such a psychological crutch ! 😀

  • James

    The PLOT thickens !

    Here is a statement from West Yorkshire police, which differs from the MSM reports, in that Jo Cox had been speaking to local people and was leaving a meeting….

    “We have now confirmed that just before 1pm yesterday (Thursday 16/06/16) Jo arrived in a vehicle in company with two colleagues outside the Library on Market Street and whilst enroute to the library where she had a scheduled constituency meeting, she was attacked and sustained serious injuries from both a firearm and a knife and despite assistance from passers-by, the ambulance service and police officers who were quickly on the scene, she sadly died of her injuries”.

    So Jo Cox had arrived at the car park, in a car driven by Fazila Aswat and was HEADING TO a meeting, when she was attacked. That’s not the way the MSM are reporting this.

    So HOW did the gunman/key suspect KNOW Jo Cox would be in a certain make and model of a car AND arrive at a certain parking spot, in a certain car park ?

    It is seemingly “more likely” that this is a “there by chance” moment.

    • laguerre

      What’s the point of contesting whether she was arriving at or leaving the meeting, as everyone says? The guy was ready for her, in waiting. He was a nazi enthusiast, now proved.

      • James

        She was arriving.
        That’s what West Yorkshire Police have said.

        Why is that relevant ?
        What the shooter KNEW where the assistant driving her to that meeting, was going to park ?

        So TWO massive facts “as reported by the media” aren’t true.
        1. She was arriving, not leaving.
        2. No one shouted “Free Britain”
        (that’s my joke, by the way, since no one shouted anything, I can just claim they shouted whatever).

        But what the hell, two major facts are discredited.
        He was a Nazi, right BECAUSE he bought a book that contained an item of “how to make a pipe gun” some SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO !

        • Andy

          ”What the shooter KNEW where the assistant driving her to that meeting, was going to park ?”

          Now you call Mair ”the shooter ”.

    • fedup

      Are you for real?

      The constituency meetings are held in the library and the car park is next to the library. Ever heard of google maps/Earth? You are far too busy/bent on discounting/disassociating the far right association, Hence finding “plot” within the “plot” etc, playing Charlie Chan and looking for a gun with a finger print of a thumb with a cut!!!

      Tommy had planned it and with reluctance the anti terrorist force is now getting involved.

      Well slap my thigh, woudjyoubelieveit a none Muslim terrorist could exist too?!!!!

    • Andy

      ”So HOW did the gunman/key suspect KNOW Jo Cox would be in a certain make and model of a car AND arrive at a certain parking spot, in a certain car park ?”

      Maybe something about the ” library where she had a scheduled constituency meeting”?

      Do you know what ‘scheduled’ means?

      • nevermind

        maybe he could read when the surgery was held. I mean for a mentally ill person he had enough savvy to get himself a gun building manual, build a gun and further his right wing interests, developed by following a rabid South African supremacist group earlier in life, in Britain first. He was able to make ends meet and look after himself, so the mental bit is spurious. Making a gun under strong medication?
        Who knew he was making it?
        was he flagged up for downloading that manual? or are our security services only looking for Arabs and other Semites who peruse such websites?

        He is a right wing terrorist just like Beate Zschaepe and her fascist murderers and should be held responsible for his actions.

        Britain First should be stopped from holding meetings, if their goal is to get rid of left wing socialist, if they are trying to organise, if they are planning to disrupt public life with their hate filled rhetoric. Whatever free speech prescribes it does not stop the right to demonstrate against this menace, lock their doors before they attend and stop them physically from entering.

        So what if If it takes confrontation and strife to get rid of this menace which is so obviously allowed to happen by the powers to be, then so be it.

    • Macky

      “walked out of the library with her PA and he was waiting for her. He stabbed her first and this guy tried to stop him and then he shot her.”

      See the word “waiting”, noted all the “deliberately targeted attack” statement, so hardly seems like “there by chance” moment !

      • James

        …apart from the fact, West Yorkshire Police has completely discredited the fact she “walked out” because she had only just ARRIVED !

        And thus confirmed by her assistant, that drove the car.

        You see…. it’s HARDER to await the arrival of a car, than it is to await a person LEAVING an event.
        But what the hell, fact don’t matter here.

  • Loony

    Rightly or wrongly the British have for the moment shut down the EU referendum debate as a mark of respect for the murdered MP.

    Naturally JP Morgan are unable to compute the meaning of the word “respect” and so press on regardless. According to Morgan the effect of the murder had been to harden popular support for a leave vote.

    For once (probably by accident) JP Morgan may be telling the truth as a report in USA Today would appear to confirm

    • lysias

      The British public may have learned enough by now to suspect that this was an attempt to stampede them into a Remain vote.

      • laguerre

        Rather the reverse. I can’t think that Brits would believe that a murder had been conducted just to make us think that ‘remain’ is right.

        • Loony

          Murders happen, it is sadly the way of the world.

          Almost certainly the murder had nothing to do with the EU referendum, but the aftermath is certainly being spun to encourage a remain vote.

          • laguerre

            “Almost certainly the murder had nothing to do with the EU referendum, ”

            Absurd attempt to avoid responsibility.. Noone’s going to believe you. Obvious that rightwingers like you are at the heart of the inspiration.

          • Loony

            Murders happen for a multiplicity of reasons or for no reason. Murdering politicians is not a popular pastime in the UK. In the past some fairly strange people have stood for election – they are not ordinarily murdered. There is no known fanatical armed group in the UK either violently in favor or violently against the EU

            So far as it is possible to tell the likely murderer suffered from mental health issues. It is not ordinarily sensible to ascribe rational motives to the violent actions of the mentally ill.

            The bottom line is, like everyone else, I do not know the full details of the murder. However given the foregoing it seems a sensible conclusion that “Almost certainly the murder had nothing to do with the EU referendum”

            Maybe it did – we will find out in due course. That of course will be after the referendum itself. This gives people all the opportunity they need to invent their own theories calculated to support their own view.

            Since I have never murdered anyone I have nothing to avoid responsibility for.
            It is not a case of people believing or disbelieving me, since I say nothing that invites either belief or disbelief. It is just an opinion and you may or may not share it.
            Attempting to provide a rational analysis does not make me right wing left wing or any other wing that may exist in some other dimension.
            I have no idea how I can be “at the heart of the inspiration” since whilst I am familiar with the words this is the first time I have ever seen them arranged in that particular order..

  • James

    Just to keep this current…..

    The Facts.

    1. Cox was ARRIVING at the event and NOT departing the event, when she was murdered.

    2. Cox was seen to be involved in an altercation between TWO men and had INTERVENED.

    3. There is no OFFICIAL REPORT of anyone saying “Britain First”.

    On those THREE counts, the MSM has “mis-reported” this event.

    • fedup

      You best have a look at the area and the library before letting your imagination to accelerate so wildly with your flimsy “facts” and your “conclusions”. there is good chap go an find out where the shops are, and where is the library, which car park is it?

    • Andy

      ”Witnesses said the attack occurred after she became involved in an altercation involving two men near her weekly advice surgery. A Labour source confirmed the attack happened after she concluded the drop-in session for constituents at about 1pm.”

      Labour source confirmed the attack happened after she concluded the drop-in session for constituents at about 1pm.

        • fedup

          Whereas I believe The West Yorkshire Police.

          Police described the killing as a “targeted attack”

          This does not compute!

          Now what?

          • James

            The police present “facts”.
            To decide it was a “targeted killing” would be decided by a jury.
            That’s how it works.
            It’ll be interesting if the CPS say “yeah…. we’ll run with that !”

          • Herbie

            Why are all the people doing these killings, mentally ill.

            And if they’re mentally il, how can we ascribe to them or any cause they associate with, responsibility for their crimes.

            Doesn’t make much sense, and yet media speculates all day long about what it all means.

            It doesn’t mean anything surely other than that there are far to many mentally ill people running around the place.

            It would only mean anything if these mentally ill people are being intentionally directed by others.

          • James

            “We are keeping an open mind and I do not wish to add to the speculation as we need to ensure that we conduct a professional investigation and do not compromise the need to bring the person responsible to justice”

            West Yorkshire Police.

            “Based on information available at this time, this appears to be an isolated, but targeted attack upon Jo”

            West Yorkshire Police.

            1. “information available at this time”,
            2 “this appears to be”

            That is not “THIS WAS A…..”

          • fedup

            So “targeted killing” is not a fact, and is an opinion in your learned judgement?

            This debate is taking a turn for surreal now!!

            CPS will be looking as to legality of the case, and direct the police as to how to conduct their investigations. Included in the directions are investigating the means, the method and the motive for any crime that has taken place.

            Thus police stating “targeted killing” is based on their interrogations of the murderer who must have told them he went there to kill Jo!

            What this shit has to do with a Jury verdict?

    • Andy

      ”So HOW did the gunman/key suspect KNOW Jo Cox would be in a certain make and model of a car AND arrive at a certain parking spot, in a certain car park ?”

      Maybe something about the ” library where she had a scheduled constituency meeting”?

      Do you know what ‘scheduled’ means?

      • James

        Yep…. it means “it starts at” whatever that time is.

        And your point is what ? She always arrives “bang on time”, everytime. No earlier. Never !

        You’re “fed” news, and believe it.

        Whereas there are THREE facts that are already disputed. But what the hell. Just ignore that.

    • Andy

      from your link ”Ghulam Maniyar says his daughter, Fazila Aswat, rushed to help the dying MP after she was attacked at a constituency surgery on Thursday.”

      So you are saying the ”shooter” just ‘happened’ to be where he was, with a gun.

    • James

      To be fair, she was the Head of Policy at Oxfam (and adviser to Mrs Brown)

      And her husband was Senior Executive at Save The Children (and adviser to Mr Brown)

        • Macky

          You should also have also posted the response to that from the same place you lifted it from;

          “That’s very interesting info Petri, but let’s retain a respectful tone. I agree Cox was no martyr to democracy, and there are questions to be asked in the future about her husband’s choice of “charities” (the White Helmets?), but she did die violently and this is a tragedy for her family, especially her kids. We all have to respect that.”

        • Resident Dissident

          So that makes it ok top murder her in your eyes? Or offers mitigation? Or explain it?

          Why don’t you just crawl back under your stone.

    • Andy

      The Iraqi Body Count is a load of bullshit. If you used IBQ methodology in Syria the death toll would be in a few thousand.

      • Geoffrey

        You are right . The figures are compiled from reports from only English language sources. If properly compiled using Iraqi sources the figure would be much higher,possibly double or more.

    • fedup

      Alan mate poor Gaby Rado lost his life; the bastards dropped* him in Sulaimaniya because he was about to report on the massive carpet bombing of the Iraqi army who were placed around northern Iraq to stop the Kurdish forces from assisting the US invaders.

      The main reason for disbanding the Iraqi army was the total destruction of a million or Iraqi so soldiers in the hands of the US forces through aerial bombardment etc. The death toll in Iraq was exceeding more that three million and if you consider the subsequent deaths the figure reaches four million! But they don’t do body counts said Rummy the conqueror! Before the war Iraq had 22 million people after the war the numbers had climbed down to sixteen million.

      The housewives had stopped buying fish caught in the river because these fish had been eating so much human remains that their flesh had a nasty taste.

      * Dropping is the term used by the CIA to to kill people by dropping then from the heights to make it appear accidental/suicide

  • Brianfujisan

    A true fighter… A Climber of Scottish Mountains

    A true Fighter Human Rights

  • James

    Police described the killing as a “targeted attack”

    No they don’t. They say….

    “Based on information available at this time, this appears to be an isolated, but targeted attack upon Jo”

    1. “information available at this time”,
    2 “this appears to be”

  • James

    “We are keeping an open mind and I do not wish to add to the speculation as we need to ensure that we conduct a professional investigation and do not compromise the need to bring the person responsible to justice”

    an OPEN MIND says West Yorkshire Police !

1 2 3 4

Comments are closed.