Now that Liam Fox is back in the Cabinet and Matthew Gould, ex-Ambassador to Israel, in in charge of Security in the Cabinet Office, it is essential to get answers to what happened in at least eight meetings between Adam Werritty and Gould at least some of which involved Mossad – as Cabinet Secretary Gus O’Donnell acknowledged to a parliamentary committee:
Hansard Public Administration Committee 24/11/2011
Q<369> Paul Flynn: Okay. Matthew Gould has been the subject of a very serious complaint from two of my constituents, Pippa Bartolotti and Joyce Giblin. When they were briefly imprisoned in Israel, they met the ambassador, and they strongly believe—it is nothing to do with this case at all—that he was serving the interest of the Israeli Government, and not the interests of two British citizens. This has been the subject of correspondence.
In your report, you suggest that there were two meetings between the ambassador and Werritty and Liam Fox. Questions and letters have proved that, in fact, six such meetings took place. There are a number of issues around this. I do not normally fall for conspiracy theories, but the ambassador has proclaimed himself to be a Zionist and he has previously served in Iran, in the service. Werritty is a self-proclaimed—
Robert Halfon: Point of order, Chairman. What is the point of this?
Paul Flynn: Let me get to it. Werritty is a self-proclaimed expert on Iran.
Chair: I have to take a point of order.
Robert Halfon: Mr Flynn is implying that the British ambassador to Israel is working for a foreign power, which is out of order.
Paul Flynn: I quote the Daily Mail: “Mr Werritty is a self-proclaimed expert on Iran and has made several visits. He has also met senior Israeli officials, leading to accusations”—not from me, from the Daily Mail—“that he was close to the country’s secret service, Mossad.” There may be nothing in that, but that appeared in a national newspaper.
Chair: I am going to rule on a point of order. Mr Flynn has made it clear that there may be nothing in these allegations, but it is important to have put it on the record. Be careful how you phrase questions.
Paul Flynn: Indeed. The two worst decisions taken by Parliament in my 25 years were the invasion of Iraq—joining Bush’s war in Iraq—and the invasion of Helmand province. We know now that there were things going on in the background while that built up to these mistakes. The charge in this case is that Werritty was the servant of neo-con people in America, who take an aggressive view on Iran. They want to foment a war in Iran in the same way as in the early years, there was another—
Chair: Order. I must ask you to move to a question that is relevant to the inquiry.
Q<370> Paul Flynn: Okay. The question is, are you satisfied that you missed out on the extra four meetings that took place, and does this not mean that those meetings should have been investigated because of the nature of Mr Werritty’s interests?
Sir Gus O’Donnell: I think if you look at some of those meetings, some people are referring to meetings that took place before the election.
Q<371> Paul Flynn: Indeed, which is even more worrying.
Sir Gus O’Donnell: I am afraid they were not the subject—what members of the Opposition do is not something that the Cabinet Secretary should look into. It is not relevant.
But these meetings were held—
Chair: Mr Flynn, would you let him answer please?Sir Gus O’Donnell: I really do not think that was within my context, because they were not Ministers of the Government and what they were up to was not something I should get into at all.
Chair: Final question, Mr Flynn.
Q<372> Paul Flynn: No, it is not a final question. I am not going to be silenced by you, Chairman; I have important things to raise. I have stayed silent throughout this meeting so far.
You state in the report—on the meeting held between Gould, Fox and Werritty, on 6 February, in Tel Aviv—that there was a general discussion of international affairs over a private dinner with senior Israelis. The UK ambassador was present…
Sir Gus O’Donnell: The important point here was that, when the Secretary of State had that meeting, he had an official with him—namely, in this case, the ambassador. That is very important, and I should stress that I would expect our ambassador in Israel to have contact with Mossad. That will be part of his job. It is totally natural, and I do not think that you should infer anything from that about the individual’s biases.
Gus O’Donnell was being examined on his Cabinet Office report into the Fox/Werritty affair, which contained the blatant lie that Gould and Werritty had only met on two occasions. In fact they met eight times that we know for certain, with Gould’s role being:
1) 8 September 2009 as Miliband’s Principal Private Secretary (omitted from O’Donnell report)
2) 16 June 2010 as Hague’s Principal Private Secretary (omitted from O’Donnell report)
3) A “social occasion” in summer 2010 as Ambassador designate to Israel with Gould, Fox and Werritty (omitted from O’Donnell report)
4) 1 September 2010 in London (only one September meeting in O’Donnell report)
5) 27 September 2010 in London (only one September meeting in O’Donnell report)
6) 4-6 February 2011 Herzilya Conference Israel (omitted from O’Donnell report)
7) 6 February 2011 Tel Aviv dinner with Mossad and Israeli military
8) 15 May 2011 “We believe in Israel” conference London (omitted from O’Donnell report)
You can find full details here.
As O’Donnell states, some of the Werritty/Gould meetings happened when Fox and the Tories were not even in power. My own Freedom of Information request for all correspondence between Adam Werritty and Matthew Gould was denied as it would “breach the cost limit”. What is the purpose of the Freedom of Information Act if something as simple as correspondence between two named individuals is refused on grounds of cost.
Astonishingly, the request was denied within one hour of being submitted, and after 11pm!!!!! In reply to a further Freedom of Information Act request for minutes of the meetings between Gould and Werritty while Gould was Private Secretary to Hague and Miliband, the FCO quite literally sent me two blank pages with everything redacted except the date!!!
Various MP’s, including Jeremy Corbyn and Caroline Lucas, dragged out the information bit by bit, like drawing teeth.
The media were by and large prepared to treat the Werritty/Fox scandal purely as sniggering homophobia. Only the Independent reported the actual story
Fox’s resignation enabled the media to bury the real scandal, which was Israeli government influence on both Red and Blue Tories.
I therefore request everybody who reads this to write to their MP and ask them to find the following information. Here is a draft you may utilise, but the more you customise it the better:
Dear ……..,
I am concerned about unresolved questions from the Adam Werritty affair, and I should be grateful if you could discover the following information for me.
1) On how many occasions did Cabinet Office official Matthew Gould meet with Mr Adam Werritty, either
a) in a personal capacity
b) in an official capacity2) Who else was present on each occasion?
3) What was discussed on each occasion?I have been informed of at least eight such meetings which have been collected together from parliamentary questions and FOIA requests. I am concerned that only two of these meetings was detailed in the Cabinet Secretary’s report into the Adam Werritty affair.
1) 8 September 2009 as Miliband’s Principal Private Secretary (omitted from O’Donnell report)
2) 16 June 2010 as Hague’s Principal Private Secretary (omitted from O’Donnell report)
3) A “social occasion” in summer 2010 as Ambassador designate to Israel with Gould, Fox and Werritty (omitted from O’Donnell report)
4) 1 September 2010 in London (only one September meeting in O’Donnell report)
5) 27 September 2010 in London (only one September meeting in O’Donnell report)
6) 4-6 February 2011 Herzilya Conference Israel (omitted from O’Donnell report)
7) 6 February 2011 Tel Aviv dinner with Mossad and Israeli military
8) 15 May 2011 “We believe in Israel” conference London (omitted from O’Donnell report)Can you discover why so many of these meetings were omitted from the O’Donnell report?
I should be most grateful for your assistance.
Yours faithfully,
You can write to your MP via this website , though I awlays prefer to send a physical letter to the House of Commons. I should be most grateful for your assistance in doing this, and in spreading this appeal around by social media.
It is to me disgusting that a politician so thoroughly disgraced as Liam Fox should be back in power. Answers were blanked on the actual purpose of the Werritty connection, and I think collectively we should try to do something about that.
It would be interesting to know who the 17 Tory MPs are who voted for Liam Fox in the first ballot of the party leadership election. Secret ballot unfortunately.
Excellent Craig – yes – I actually gagged on the annonceement Liam Fox was placed back in power. Will write…
In this matter as in many others the stinoiz are the proxies of American Caesar. It’s the pond of flesh he demands for complaisance over their atrocities in Palestine.
…pound, that is….
Lateral thinking + fearlessly investigative + word-craft, the Art of Writing = Craig Murray
It would be a real pity if you were to be shackled by political office. After all, you did once free yourself from it (whatever you want to call ‘it’), once.
In my choiceless awareness, I see very plainly that you are a top journalist. My estimation of The Independent is broadly high, with some ups and downs, though since I am not a hawk-eye , this is more an intuition.
Craig, doesn’t The Independent have a suitable ‘space’ or column for you? I believe you should mutually consider a ‘tv’ spot at The Independent. I am sure this is the future of news reporting too.
With the Best of (British) Luck!
Done, and sent to Peter Kyle my Labour MP in Hove. He’s probably more accurately described as a Progress-Sainsbury MP (see Tony Greenstein’s blogs).
I don’t hold out much hope of a reply as he failed to get back to me over the Chagos Islanders plight or, more recently, on whether he had any interactions with Portland Commications in the run-up to and aftermath of the Brexit vote.
Now, Craig, with your permission (and credit to Ba’al), I’d like to highlight this:
“Now help us bring Blair to justice: Families of fallen Iraq troops launch public appeal for funds”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3696500/Now-help-bring-Blair-justice-Families-fallen-Iraq-troops-launch-public-appeal-funds.html#ixzz4Er9RR3km
The requirement is for a full legal analysis of Chilcot to determine what if any grounds for legal action against Blair exist. Obviously, this will cost a lot. The families are hoping to raise £150,000, and my guess is that they won’t have too much trouble doing it if word gets around.”
Donating to families campaign: Go to http://www.crowdjustice.co.uk/case/chilcot
Liam Fox is a neo-conservative. He is proponent of a global political philosophy which owes allegiance to no national government. He has been made Secretary of State for International Trade specifically to negotiate the worst possible terms for Britain to sign up to TTIP.
Neo-conservative wield power way beyond their apparent positions. Just look how Michael Gove slapped down Johnson.
a search https://www.google.co.uk/#q=site:www.bbc.co.uk+werrity gives a sparse 28 results,
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=site:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/+werrity gives hundreds more [*]
including this ‘success’ that I’d forgotten about
from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8829264/Why-did-Adam-Werritty-behave-ashe-did-Because-he-could.html
[*] Yes, I know that the best friend forever is spelled Werritty, but many of the earlier articles on Beeb & Torygraf have this wrong spelling. Libya remains superbly successfully targeted many years later.
This year he was paid £5000 to go and address AIPAC.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10213/liam_fox/north_somerset
Not bad for a backbencher in eclipse, as he then was.
Done, and thanks for being Peter Oborne, (forgive), for a day, Craig, its that good, imho.
I hope the gushing here will all write to their MP. It is untenable that Liam Fox MP returns to a top Westminster job, after being fired/leaving over this affair, without us, or anyone else, being able to know how and why he created special access for Adam Werritty, his connections to Gould and foreign intelligence agencies.
Will Liam Fox be allowed to carry on allowing foreign countries agenda’s to influence UK policies and politics moreover?
And they thought enough grass had grown over this sordid affair. The whereabouts of Adam Werritty should also make it inevitable that this man answers questions and is held accountable for his unhindered actions.
I thought such things were only typical of third world military dictatorships.
The third world are amateur dictatorships, ran by amateurs, for the amateurs! Here we have an unwritten code of conduct. Unlike our professional
dictatorsdemocratic and “strong” dear leaders, and the hangers on thereof.Werrity and Gould could’ve discussed what part Britain would take if Israel made a move against Iran. I’d imagine there’s a general consensus of loyalty towards Israel from the Westminster chambers, if that were the case I’d imagine the UK government, would be onboard so to speak with plans put forward.
If Iran is the target and the topic of discussion between Werrity and Gould, then surely the US must have sanctioned such a move. Many senators in the US bitterly disagreed with Obama’s lifting of sanctions on Iran. I recall Hilary Clinton talking tough over Iran.
I doubt it would take much talking from Gould to get the Tories or LibDems onside, however Corbyn appears to be Goulds fly in the ointment so to speak. I’d imagine removing Corbyn as leader would open up a number of doors, for those who want Westminster onside, I do hope Corbyn can hang in there as leader.
Another possible Israeli move that must be borne in mind is an expulsion of the Palestinians from Israeli and Israeli-occupied territory. This would be especially likely to occur in the event of a war with Iran.
There’s not going to be an Israel-Iran war, Lysias.
Calm down.
I was of course not thinking of a war between Israel and Iran. That is not how Israel operates.
What were you thinking of then? Please elucidate.
You wrote: “..a war with Iran”. Who would the other party be?
Trowbrige H.Ford
Good point, I suppose the same could be said of the US government, which as openly and covertly supported Israel come what may, many secret meeting must’ve taken place over the years.
I wonder if the US public can request a FOI or similar to find out what discussions took place between Ron Dermer and Dan Shapiro? Or any of there predecessors?
Slightly off topic, apologies.
You may like this story Trowbridge.
Apparenyly the Israeli press, either won’t report it or haven’t gotten wind of it yet.
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2016/07/16/netanyahu-and-son-investigated-for-using-false-passport-money-laundering-via-panama-account/
‘haven’t got wind of it yet?’,RoS, thanks for that loud laugh.
Israel’s press is as controlled as others are, ain’t that right Mr. Murdoch?
“Israeli social media has lit up with news of a new investigation of Bibi Netanyahu, his son Yair, and the PMO’s former chief of staff, Ari Harow. This story has not yet been reported by an Israeli mainstream publication”
______________
Nevermind.
The above is from the link, try reading it first before assuming thank you.
Richard Silverstein’s latest report is that the story of the Netanyahu family scandal has broken, in debates in the Knesset and in the pages of Ha’aretz.
Now let’s see to what extent Western media dare to report the story, which, by the way, involves American donors.
Yes Lysais, it has the potential to be big, and messy, I do hope so. ?
Ok, he’s an investigating journalist, not part of the mainstream. I still maintain that Israel’s press is controlled as much as the right wing press is here.
Nevermind.
I can’t disagree with that. ?
I regret to say that the Cold War is not over, in the minds of people in Washington. Presidential Proclamation — Captive Nations Week, 2016:
Sounds rather good and sensible to me, Lysias.
What in particular in that statement do you object to or find inaccurate and in which way does the statement as a whole demonstrate that the Cold War is not over in the minds of people in Washington?
Than you.
Klutz Kerry. Kerry walks into door at UK prime minister’s office (with video).
Klutz Kerry: funds this mob
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697770/US-backed-Nour-al-Din-al-Zenki-behead-boy-accused-al-Quds-spy-Assad.html
Interesting on a personal level, but Israel is doing much more on an institutional one, like getting NATO to do its bidding around the Mediterranean with its Mediterranean Dialogue, though it is not even a member of it.
Just think of the mysterious plane crashes which have weakened the EU, the UN, and countries like Spain, Germany, Russia, and Egypt,
Check out the ‘Yinon plan’, a plan formulated in the 1980s for Israeli domination of the Middle East. Involving the division/Balkanisation of Iraq into three smaller stares aligned along Sunni, Shia & Kurdish lines. Then look at Anglo-US policy in that area today. You might also like to peruse some of Hilary Clinton’s leaked emails, revealing the real motivation behind the attacks upon Syria.
Syria. A country that once housed headquarters of all major Palestinian resistance organisations & has been nominally at war with Israel since 1967. Syria refuses to cede the land of the Gol’an to Israel annexation. Something that unlike the UN, Jabhat al-Nusra has readilly agreed to do, in return for Israeli military support.
Removing Bashar al’Assad removes one of Iran’s major allies & further isolates a major obstacle to Israeli military dominance.
Maybe it’s mere coincidence that the major players in ‘Labour Friends Of Israel’ are the biggest supporters of “military intervention” in the Middle East?
Can those plane crashes – few of which are “mysterious” – be said to have “weakened” the countries you mention?
If so, can you explain why and how?
The “Friends Of Israel” political groups have been a pernicious influence on British politics for far too long. They & their lobbying have been a huge influence behind Britain’s wars in the Middle East & have ultimately cost the lives of millions. It’s time these groups were outlawed.
Can you back up those assertions and in particular your claim that that influence – if it exists – has been “pernicious”?
As for “outlawing” the Friends of Israel political groups, what penalties would you suggest were such groups to continue to exist and would you also outlaw similar groups as the Friends of Russia or the Friends of Palestine (probably not the right title)?
Please answer all the above questions. Thank you in advance.
The “FOI” groups have been major lobbyists for involvement in Middle East wars, including Iraq, I think that has been pretty pernicious. Especially when you consider the number of Britons who have lost their lives as a direct consequence.
One of the very first acts Cameron’s govt enacted, was to remove the law of Universal Jurisdiction, to allow Israelis wanted for war crimes to enter UK free from the fear of arrest.
There is no similar group with such an influence on British politics. If there was a Russian or Palestinian equivalent welding such power, there would be outrage.
I note your answer but I also note it is a partial answer. Please answer the questions in para 2 of my post. Thank you.
Paul Flynn: “In the past there hasn’t been a Jewish ambassador to Israel and I think that is a good decision – to avoid the accusation that they have gone native.”
Hmmm…So if someone is half-Jewish does Mr Flynn believe that they can be part-time ambassador to Israel?;)
Someone – Craig, perhaps – should tell Mr Flynn that the FCO does not have that many Jewish ambassadors “tout court”.
And ask Mr Flynn whether he feels the FCO should not have sent a Roman Catholic ambassador to the Holy See.
Or FCO Arabists (do they still exist?) as ambassadors to Arab countries.
FCO Arabists are not Arabs, merely experts.
I am aware of that, Laguerre. The implication of what you write is that a Jew should not be allowed to be the British ambassador to Israel, isn’t it.
Or FCO Nats as Mr Murray undoubtedly always has been with a visceral loathing of the Conservative Party. It hardly gives confidence in their vetting procedures.
On March 29th 2012, in blog post on your article ‘The Karimov’s Cash in’, I made reference to Mathew Gould. The reference was also anaphoric in that it pointed to an article from a month earlier in the same blog entitled, ‘If you are a British national with a Palestinian name, you may face problems.’ Indeed, that article refered to an even earlier article from the beginning of the month where Mathew Gould described himself to ‘Haaretz’ as “not just an ambassador who is Jewish but a Jewish ambassador”. My comment on that statement was: “Now that, of course, shouldn’t be too unsettling but when he himself says that he wouldn’t be able to do the job without being a Zionist, we should be at least raising our eyebrows.”
Of course, raising eyebrows is hardly a way forward and I really think you hit the nail on the head when you say “it is essential to get answers to what happened in at least eight meetings between Adam Werritty and Gould at least some of which involved Mossad.” All the more so when we consider that Blighty’s Zionist in Israel is now in charge of Security in the Cabinet Office.
https://sansculottism.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/3517/
https://sansculottism.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/if-you-are-a-british-national-with-a-palestinian-name-you-may-face-problems/
Sent to Kirsten Oswald MP 😉
I have probably not been paying enough attention but I wonder if Craig could state, in say three or four lines, exactly what his problem is.
Is it that the eight meetings took place at all or is it that only two of them were mentioned in the Cabinet Secretary’s report?
In the first case, a couple of lines on why those meetings should not have taken place with the participants in question; in the second case, a couple of lines on the conclusions Craig draws from that fact and what if any damage has arisen from that non-disclosure.
I am of course assuming that Craig is not objecting per se to the fact that close contacts take place on an on-going basis, between representatives of the UK (and their advisors) and representatives of the State of Israel, a friendly country on matters of mutual interest and concern; confirmation of that assumption would be welcome.
Werritty was effectively running his own foreign policy, rather like Blair and Bust had their own private war against Iraq. Werritty held NO position in the UK government at all; completely unaccountable. Check the two links in Craig’s post that link back to this site and all will become clear.
ooh, good Freudian slip there…
Habbabkuk, apologies; I got interrupted. I hope you’ve found the information.
Werritty was plotting to take the UK into a war with Iran, on behalf of Israel. Fox and Gould were all for it, and it seems that secret war plans were made:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/11/matthew-gould-and-the-plot-to-attack-iran/
– There are very important questions here. Was Gould really discussing neo-con plans for attacking Iran with Werritty and eventually with Fox before the Conservatives were even in government? Why did O’Donnell’s report so carefully mislead on the Fox-Gould-Werritty axis? How far was the FCO aware of MOD preparations for attacking Iran? Is there a neo-con cell of senior ministers and officials, co-ordinating with Israel and the United States, and keeping their designs hidden from the Conservative’s coalition partners?
Werritty became an “advisor” to Fox, but that was later. Werritty never had a security clearance. Craig tried to get the matter into the mass “news” media, but was turned away everywhere; so much for our “free press”, without which democracy cannot function:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/11/the-hottest-potato/
I think this was the thread that discussed the new corruption scandal allegedly involving Netanyahu’s family. But all mention of it seems to have disappeared.
If the mentions were excised because Richard Silverstein’s Tikun Olam site is considered unreliable, I found corroboration of the scandal in this Arutz Sheva story from a couple of days ago: Netanyahu’s former Chief of Staff sent to house arrest: Ari Harow remanded to five days house arrest after being interrogated by police for 14 hours..
And here’s a story from Ha’aretz: Report: Netanyahu Expected to Be Questioned as a Criminal Suspect: Other members of the prime minister’s family may also be called in for questioning, Channel 2 reports, following 15-hour interrogation of his former chief of staff.
All of which shows that in Israel even the politically powerful are not beyond the reach of the law – as is normal in a democracy, of course (but not in countries frequently praised on here).
+++++++++++++++++++
To be noted that there is no corruption in Iran – which is presumably why Iran has been called (by at least one regular commenter) at least as democratic as the UK.
Recent events in the U.S. and in the UK have cast new doubt on the idea that the politically powerful are subject to the rule of law in those countries.
Your post was about Israel, was it not?
Your post at 21h07 in case you’ve forgotten 🙂
I do hope that no one on here is arguing against the advisability, merits and potentially positive outcomes of good – and enhanced – cooperation between the security agencies of the UK and those of other democratic countries, including Israel?
“I do hope that no one on here is arguing against the advisability, merits and potentially positive outcomes of good – and enhanced – cooperation between the security agencies of the UK and those of other democratic countries, including Israel?”
Surely, the whole point of a security agency has always been to keep our secrets from others? This sharing secrets is just BS; you really only share the things that are not quite so secret, while keeping the rest “top secret”, surely?
Can you actually explain to me why we need these secret service agencies?
They all operate completely outside the law and do feck all to bolster ‘national security’.
The security services are just basically criminal enterprises, whatever the dickheads who sign-up to them are brainwashed to think.
Because other countries have them. Write to Mr Putin with your concerns. And while you’re at it, ask him to unilaterally disarm his nuclear arsenal.
It’s America that is basing missiles in Romania and Poland, right on Russia’s doorstep. How would America react if Russia started basing missiles in Canada and Mexico?
This seems to be an obvious question that is never asked.
And please, spare me all the BS about ABMs (which the USA still says is to counter a threat from Iran, which is totally and utterly ridiculous).
RobG
It is never asked because it is too silly for words.
Canada and Mexico do not want US/NATO assistance to defend themselves against Russia. They probably see no need.
Romania and Poland – perhaps basing themselves on historical experience? – do.
Is that clear enough for you?
Mexico and Canada might at some point want Russian protection from the U.S. After all, the U.S. has invaded both, numerous times.
Lysias
“Mexico and Canada might at some point want Russian protection from the U.S. After all, the U.S. has invaded both, numerous times.”
____________________
Really? I didn’t know that.
Could you tell us how many times the US had invaded Mexico and Canada and when?
No need to confine yourself to the 20th century.
Thanks.
When it comes to the absolutely horrendous state of democracy in the UK, Bach’s St. Matthew Passion springs to mind…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf4UNJqv_-A
Surprising news from the Republican convention, as reported by David Dayen in Glenn Greenwald’s The Intercept: The Republican Platform’s Surprise Revival of Glass-Steagall Legislation:
FT is reporting that banks and Wall Street are not at all happy about this.
Lysias
Would you not agree that this is very welcome news?
There never was any “meat” to these allegations, whatever they were.
I am surprised Craig is rehashing them now, given that they are of only limited interest to anyone other than the obsessive conspiracy theorists of the “secret “Zionist” cabal rule the world” variety who unfortunately frequent his blog.
It is also unfortunate that Mr Flynn objected to the appointment of the former ambassador to Israel on the basis of his being J**ish, having stated his preference for someone with “roots in the UK”.
Did Flynn really come out with the “roots in the UK” bit?
If so, surprising that all the anti-racists and anti-bigots haven’t jumped on Flynn yet.
Or perhaps not.
Flynn was always good to buy you a pint of Guinness. I won’t hear a word against Flynn despite his connections to dark and dubious organisations.
Not only that but J**s have “divided loyalties” also.
Now that they are aware, the anti-racists will be queuing up to denounce Flynn in 3…..2…..1…..
Thank you for that, Anon!. It seems to offer a further basis for thinking that Mr Paul Flynn doesn’t have much time for J**s, never mind Israelis.
Those remarks, if correctly reported, are disgraceful and would seem to indicate that the accusations of anti-semitism in the Labour Party might have some substance to them.
Anon1 seems to have quoted Wikipedia without checking the citations. The Wiki page misquotes an assertion in the Jewish Chronicle.
Paul Flynn is a Labour Friend of Israel and has visited Israel four times.
Not the Flynn mentioned here?
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-6aa0-The-Kamel-that-broke-Straws-back#.V4diO4rF_xh
Flynn had been about to reveal, when Straw intervened, that Straw and Tony Blair had already known that Saddam no longer had WMD in the autumn of 2002, when the UN was hoodwinked.
He was in full flow, pointing out: “We are being denied the truth. I find it astonishing that [Straw] does not agree there were no weapons of mass destruction. It is amazing if he still believes there was an imminent threat to British territory. I have a document — I have no time to go into its detail — referenced by Tony Blair as evidence of the existence of weapons of mass destruction and the threat posed. It concerns a meeting on 22 August 1995 at which the principal person giving evidence was a General Hussein Kamel. For goodness sake, read the document!”
The full 15-page text of the document Flynn flourished in the House of Commons is now available on the internet (w
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/unscom950822.pdf
The “roots in the UK” bit is an assertion by the Jewish Chronicle, not from Hansard.
The Wikipedia page on Paul Flynn is misleading, based on misquotes of the JC article. I’m currently trying to update the Wiki page but it’s a tangled mess.
I’ve corrected Flynn’s Wiki page somewhat but more remains to be done.
I hope you’re not one of those guys who re-writes history on Wikipedia?
I believe that such people have come in for criticism on this blog, including from Craig himself.
Check for yourself. I’ve updated that part of the article to correct the inaccuracies regarding what Flynn actually said, and what the Jewish Chronicle reported:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_Flynn_%28politician%29&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=730666519&oldid=729803246
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/59300/jewish-envoy-not-loyal-uk-says-labour-mp
You can see most of my edits to Wikipedia on the link below, though not trivial corrections like punctuation since I don’t bother logging in for those:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Clark42
Clark
Thanks for that.
Just one question: you say that the Jewish Chronicle misreported what Mr Corbyn said and that you have supplied the correct version of what he said. Where did you find that correct version (ie, what is your reliable source)?
No, I said that whoever wrote that bit of Flynn’s Wikipedia page misquoted the article in the Jewish Chronicle.
Wikipedia articles must correctly use the sources that they cite. That article misrepresented its source, really quite badly. I have no idea how accurate the JC article is, no way of knowing, and couldn’t correct it in any case. But I can and did correct the distortion of the source from Wikipedia.
Habbabkuk, that entire episode, from the Jewish Chronicle article, to other politicians comments about it, to the Wiki section, to Anon1’s impression above, to us discussing it here, all in fact subtended from the short exchange that Craig quoted from Hansard in his post above. It appears to be an example either of manufactured, faked anti-Semitism, or of incredible over-sensitivity by successive people.
Anon1’s uncritical use of a misleading Wiki article led him to denigrate a decades-long member of Labour Friends of Israel who has visited Israel four times. Surely cases like this are damaging to Israel’s international support?
The misquotes were added by “Nomoskedasticity” in December 2011 who, however, also included a balancing section that has since been removed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_Flynn_%28politician%29&diff=463717524&oldid=457416078
I note that the section has also been edited to imply anti-Semitism by “Deb” (must be a long-time editor to have such a short username), immediately followed by a flurry of edits by our old adversary Philip Cross in November 2015:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_Flynn_%28politician%29&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=692088330&oldid=679362406
At least. And perhaps his woman just said “not tonight”.
Ah, it’s been a long hot day and the roads are melting, the train tracks buckling. When I was (Hey, I’ve been waiting years to be old enough to spout this BS) when I was young, and we were up to our necks in rock festivals and flower power, things didn’t go wrong like this back then.
ROFL
I’m beginning to get the impression that Mr Paul Flynn MP is a particularly nasty piece of work.
Is it correct that he has for a long time been very closely associated politically with the current “leader” of the Labour Party?
Habbabkuk, further to our discussion above:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/07/fox-gould-werritty-israel-please-write-mp/comment-page-1/#comment-614024
I hope you’ll agree that your impression was miss-founded.
“Veterans Today” lol
Mr Murray should salami-slice that FOIA request and try again. Asking for ‘all correspondence’ between two individuals is so all-inclusive that it is bound to be turned down on cost grounds. There is a statutory costs ceiling of £600 for requests to central Government, calculated at a rate of £25 per staff hour. That’s a pretty quick turn-around time in effect and unless a request is quite sharply defined, it is almost certain to fall foul of this restriction. (This is particularly the case if complying with a request would create breaches of the Data Protection Act, or if it engages any of the exempt categories in the FOIA, since responsive material will then have to be redacted, which involves even more time and effort, cutting into the costs even further).
The best thing to do would be to identify the first and final dates of a ‘window’ in which communications on a certain subject are likely to have taken place (e.g., when a certain issue was first raised and when it was officially concluded), and to ask for communications between those dates. Sometimes you will find references in the released material that point to other areas to which you could gain access via FOIA.
Rinse and repeat ad lib.
FOI fan
You will by now have noticed your comment is not appreciated. Please refrain from offering useful, practical information.
Mr Murray’s heroic efforts are too insightful, too frightening to be tolerated by the ENGLAND/US/ISRAEL axis of evil banker gods. Who are you to suggest out he simply submitted forms incorrectly.
FOI Fan, Craig probably hasn’t seen your comment and I think he’d be glad of the advice. Please send it to him by the contact form:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/contact/